Mad Gib
Lynx
article stating that Iberia's putting Gib on the world map. The enormity of
this reality many have not yet assumed. In international airline terms, Gib
has been liberated by IBERIA!
Jim Watt
It would be more worrying if they were putting the Campo
on the map by opening a service to the La Linea airport.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:iqn4o2pno3ep7jo1l...@4ax.com...
Which is almost what they've done.
A Frenchman booking to go to Gib does so in the belief that Gib is in the
UK, thinking he will probably end up at Gibraltar Point in Lincolnshire.
Meanwhile a Spaniard wanting to fly to Gib finds himself (apparently) flying
from Spain, but returning to the UK.
Why is Gib in Europe? Why is it not in a country category which shows its
true location, NOT in SPain, NOT in the UK - but Gib and nowhere else? I
suspect the MAE's hand here, and I also blame the GoG for granting the
licence with the site in its present form. If the upshot would have been no
flights to Madrid, then so be it. A prerequisite would also have been for
flights to overfly Los Barrios as agreed by the Sp nat govt, not to be
overriden by Los Barrios or Algeciras town councils!
K
Lynx
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eluka...@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> news:iqn4o2pno3ep7jo1l...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:54:08 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>
>>>And yet, another article on the MAD-GIB-MAD Iberia airline route. The
>>>same
>>>article stating that Iberia's putting Gib on the world map. The enormity
>>>of
>>>this reality many have not yet assumed. In international airline terms,
>>>Gib
>>>has been liberated by IBERIA!
>>
>> It would be more worrying if they were putting the Campo
>> on the map by opening a service to the La Linea airport.
There's no La Linea apt. But imagine an apt built within the region. What
role would there be for Gib apt? Madrid is the second major European port
you can now fly to/from Gib. This is a major benefit to Gib, as it is to the
Campo. Even a one-eyed king can see that, surely.
> Which is almost what they've done.
>
> A Frenchman booking to go to Gib does so in the belief that Gib is in the
> UK, thinking he will probably end up at Gibraltar Point in Lincolnshire.
> Meanwhile a Spaniard wanting to fly to Gib finds himself (apparently)
> flying from Spain, but returning to the UK.
There's no such ignorance in France about the Iberian Peninsular nor about
Gib. The French had a substantial input into Spain's modern
regional-administrative subdivisions, amongst other things, dating back to
the French, unwelcomed, invasion.
> Why is Gib in Europe? Why is it not in a country category which shows its
> true location, NOT in SPain, NOT in the UK - but Gib and nowhere else? I
> suspect the MAE's hand here, and I also blame the GoG for granting the
> licence with the site in its present form. If the upshot would have been
> no flights to Madrid, then so be it. A prerequisite would also have been
> for flights to overfly Los Barrios as agreed by the Sp nat govt, not to be
> overriden by Los Barrios or Algeciras town councils!
"Why is Gib in Europe?" Are you serious? Gib doesn't have national status,
because, like Jimbo said, it is not a sovereign state. Can you expand on
what you mean by, "with the site in its present form"? On Los Barrios and
Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of self-autonomy and
democracy.
Jim Watt
> On Los Barrios and
>Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of self-autonomy and
>democracy.
No its the oil refinery and chemical works, frankly I
do not want aircraft going anywhere near them and hear
there is an EU cirective preventing overflying such
places, so its not their councils.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
news:8YBgh.8745$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eluka...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>> news:iqn4o2pno3ep7jo1l...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:54:08 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>And yet, another article on the MAD-GIB-MAD Iberia airline route. The
>>>>same
>>>>article stating that Iberia's putting Gib on the world map. The enormity
>>>>of
>>>>this reality many have not yet assumed. In international airline terms,
>>>>Gib
>>>>has been liberated by IBERIA!
>>>
>>> It would be more worrying if they were putting the Campo
>>> on the map by opening a service to the La Linea airport.
>
> There's no La Linea apt. But imagine an apt built within the region. What
> role would there be for Gib apt? Madrid is the second major European port
> you can now fly to/from Gib. This is a major benefit to Gib, as it is to
> the Campo. Even a one-eyed king can see that, surely.
There are airports at Malaga (tourist cheap flights mostly) as well at
Seville and Jerez. Why would Sp want to build another one within S Sp?
Madrid that big? Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schipol, Berlin, Zurich, Parid CDG?
>> A Frenchman booking to go to Gib does so in the belief that Gib is in the
>> UK, thinking he will probably end up at Gibraltar Point in Lincolnshire.
>> Meanwhile a Spaniard wanting to fly to Gib finds himself (apparently)
>> flying from Spain, but returning to the UK.
>
> There's no such ignorance in France about the Iberian Peninsular nor about
> Gib. The French had a substantial input into Spain's modern
> regional-administrative subdivisions, amongst other things, dating back to
> the French, unwelcomed, invasion.
Suppose not a Frenchman then, A Pole, Dane, Hungarian, Italian, Romanian -
you name it.
>
>> Why is Gib in Europe? Why is it not in a country category which shows its
>> true location, NOT in SPain, NOT in the UK - but Gib and nowhere else? I
>> suspect the MAE's hand here, and I also blame the GoG for granting the
>> licence with the site in its present form. If the upshot would have been
>> no flights to Madrid, then so be it. A prerequisite would also have been
>> for flights to overfly Los Barrios as agreed by the Sp nat govt, not to
>> be overriden by Los Barrios or Algeciras town councils!
>
> "Why is Gib in Europe?" Are you serious? Gib doesn't have national status,
> because, like Jimbo said, it is not a sovereign state. Can you expand on
> what you mean by, "with the site in its present form"? On Los Barrios and
> Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of self-autonomy and
> democracy.
A degree of autonomy that can override the decision of the national govt?
Only if the national govt chooses to be overriden!
K
Lynx
>
snip
>
> There are airports at Malaga (tourist cheap flights mostly) as well at
> Seville and Jerez. Why would Sp want to build another one within S Sp?
I've flown in/out of Seville and Malaga, neither one of which served any
purpose enroute to Gib. You have not made a point.
> Madrid that big? Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schipol, Berlin, Zurich, Parid CDG?
They're just as far if not further from Gib than LON apts. You have still
not made a valid point.
>> There's no such ignorance in France about the Iberian Peninsular nor
>> about Gib. The French had a substantial input into Spain's modern
>> regional-administrative subdivisions, amongst other things, dating back
>> to the French, unwelcomed, invasion.
>
> Suppose not a Frenchman then, A Pole, Dane, Hungarian, Italian, Romanian -
> you name it.
You've been bitten by the POME bug, which makes its victims assume the rest
of the world's in the dark At any rate, you're still not making a valid
point.
>> "Why is Gib in Europe?" Are you serious? Gib doesn't have national
>> status, because, like Jimbo said, it is not a sovereign state. Can you
>> expand on what you mean by, "with the site in its present form"? On Los
>> Barrios and Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of
>> self-autonomy and democracy.
>
> A degree of autonomy that can override the decision of the national govt?
> Only if the national govt chooses to be overriden!
Your view of Gib is so augmented, you refer to it as a Nation!
Vitriol, I say, dear chap, vitriol!
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Sounds like much asay about nothing. Gib's not setting any example on
air/ground safety when you look at the amount of high concentration
residential buildings within, what should be, the outer apt perimeter. Lets
face it, you'd like to see Gib apt solely monopolized by the MOD and little
else.
Jim Watt
Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
crashed into the refinery ?
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
> Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
> crashed into the refinery ?
No one could wish for such a disaster. The refinery could best be relocated,
as it is not a significant employer and, it compromises the health of
residents in the surrounding region, including Gib. Then again the
refinery's an indirect contributor to Gib's economy. What would happen if an
a/c crashed into Glacis and Marina Complex, or Laguna Estate or Devil's
Tower Rd, or La Linea's residential area closest to the frontier? Let's face
it, Gib's apt is reminescent of what Kai Tak apt used to be.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> news:3e06o2dvoeerkh229...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:37:56 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Los Barrios and
>>>Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of self-autonomy and
>>>democracy.
>>
>> No its the oil refinery and chemical works, frankly I
>> do not want aircraft going anywhere near them and hear
>> there is an EU cirective preventing overflying such
>> places, so its not their councils.
A straight line out from the W end of the runway does not take you over the
refinery. Next time you walk across - while you still can - pause when you
get to the dashed line marking the lidline, face west, and see what you see
in a straight line beyond.
> Sounds like much asay about nothing. Gib's not setting any example on
> air/ground safety when you look at the amount of high concentration
> residential buildings within, what should be, the outer apt perimeter.
> Lets face it, you'd like to see Gib apt solely monopolized by the MOD and
> little else.
Gib cannot be blamed for its small size. There is the "health and safety"
aaspect of this of course, ensuring safety. We could of course point to many
years of no trouble and the regulatory enthusiasts would jump and tell you
that just because there has been nothing wrong does not necessarily mean
that all is right. Fair enough, but when nothing has been wrong for so very
long, perhaps you need to accept that thaings are in fact all right, and you
had set your safety margin tooo genereously in the first place. How about
Schipol, where everything was by the book yet a Jumbo managed to hit a
high-rise building?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> news:91c7o2hfdjea4p4lc...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>
>> Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
>> crashed into the refinery ?
>
> No one could wish for such a disaster. The refinery could best be
> relocated, as it is not a significant employer and, it compromises the
> health of residents in the surrounding region, including Gib. Then again
> the refinery's an indirect contributor to Gib's economy.
Not so sure. They employ v few if any Gibraltarians, doesn't actually employ
that many people, and it was set up supposedly to offset the stagnation of
the Sp economy of the region after the Sp closure of the border in the 60s.
Gib and it were next to each other, but had nothing to do with each other.
Sure it supplies much of the fuels bought by Gib - but they could be sourced
elsewhere.
> What would happen if an a/c crashed into Glacis and Marina Complex, or
> Laguna Estate or Devil's Tower Rd, or La Linea's residential area closest
> to the frontier? Let's face it, Gib's apt is reminescent of what Kai Tak
> apt used to be.
Carnage, just as when an aircraft hits any built-up area. But most crashes
of aircraft into built up areas occur when these areas are NOT around the
airport. In any case, most of the crashes of an aircraft on approach /
take-off for obvious reasons occur in a straight line with the runway, which
in Gib's case would see just the aircraft involved, and perhaps one unlucky
patera.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:elv2c...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>
> snip
>>
>> There are airports at Malaga (tourist cheap flights mostly) as well at
>> Seville and Jerez. Why would Sp want to build another one within S Sp?
>
> I've flown in/out of Seville and Malaga, neither one of which served any
> purpose enroute to Gib. You have not made a point.
I have, you fail to see it. You ask "But imagine an apt built within the
region. What
role would there be for Gib apt?" I then go on to inform that apart from
Malaga, there are already another two airports within the SPanish region. If
the Sp region needs more air links, they already have Seville and Jerez
which are underutilised. That they are or are not of use to Gib is not what
you asked - you asked what would become of Gib airport if there were
additional facilities within Spain. You have marked me incorrect for not
answering the question you did not ask! People taking examinations are often
reminded to answer the question that was asked, not the question they would
have preferred to have been asked. It also is encumbent on the examiners to
mark the answers given in response to the question asked, not the question
the examiners themselves had wished they had asked in the first place. So
there.
>
>> Madrid that big? Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schipol, Berlin, Zurich, Parid CDG?
>
> They're just as far if not further from Gib than LON apts. You have still
> not made a valid point.
Again no! You stated that Madrid was the second largest airport in Europe,
no reference to its usefulness to Gib whatsoever implied. I know Heathrow is
the largest, so I was wondering if Madrid was really any larger than all of
those very large aiports I mention. Read your won question!
>
>>> There's no such ignorance in France about the Iberian Peninsular nor
>>> about Gib. The French had a substantial input into Spain's modern
>>> regional-administrative subdivisions, amongst other things, dating back
>>> to the French, unwelcomed, invasion.
>>
>> Suppose not a Frenchman then, A Pole, Dane, Hungarian, Italian,
>> Romanian - you name it.
>
> You've been bitten by the POME bug, which makes its victims assume the
> rest of the world's in the dark At any rate, you're still not making a
> valid point.
You really have lost the plot Bruce! As far as the rest of the world is
concerned, the world IS in the dark about Gib because Gib is a very very
small place which, though able to punch bve its weight, still fails to make
any significant ripples in the world pond - which is just fine by me BTW,
FWIW. Therefore, if Iberia misrepresents Gib on its website by variously
listing it as being part of the UK or within Spain (depending on which
direction you're flying) or somewhere else in Europe not otherwise
specified, it would not be surprising that someone not quite conversant with
these matters geopolitical might be quite befuddled as to where he was
actually going to land.
Trust me, I've stood in queues seeking to buy currency for elsewhere and
have more than once overheard conversations such as "What money do I ask
for?" asked of another person in the queue. Quite reasonably the return
question "What country are you going to?" was ellicited. The reply was
"Corfu". Also, I have heard people wonder if now that "everywhere" was using
the Euro, if all these countries concerned had merged into a single nation.
I also know of individuals who were unaware they had just booked a holiday
to Portugal, insistent that they were not going there but to a country
called "Algarve" (Eng pronunciation of course) instead. This followed by an
elderly gent who had never travelled further than two horizons from his
place of birth. His son and daughter in law dragged him off with them to
their annual pilgrimage to one or other Sp Med coastal resort. Asked on his
return what he thought of it replied "I've only been abroad once, and I
don't reckon much to it" demonstrating that his mind at least was not
broadened by travel.
>
>>> "Why is Gib in Europe?" Are you serious? Gib doesn't have national
>>> status, because, like Jimbo said, it is not a sovereign state.
So, because the Cayman Islands are not a soverign state I expect ot see them
in a holiday brochire under "Holiday destinations in the UK"?
>>>Can you expand on what you mean by, "with the site in its present form"?
>>>On Los Barrios and Algeciras, perhaps they too boast of a degree of
>>>self-autonomy and democracy.
>>
>> A degree of autonomy that can override the decision of the national govt?
>> Only if the national govt chooses to be overriden!
>
> Your view of Gib is so augmented, you refer to it as a Nation!
> Vitriol, I say, dear chap, vitriol!
With people like you denying a national status for Gib, we shall certainly
never achieve it! Goebels was known to say that a lie repeated often enough
becomes acepted as truth. It is a tactic used by our northerly neighbours
often, with much of the world believing by their misrepresentation that Gib
is a den of thieves and smugglers. I am merely trying their own game.
K
darius
Lynx wrote:
It's not that bad actually. No where near!
The main item at Gibraltar airport is just cross winds - caused by the
rock itself.
In terms of the height of objects, the primary concern is by far yacht
masts.
If not activly checked for by the tower and inspection vechicles
immediatly before a takeoff/landing they would have the ability to get
fatally in the way.
But that is a problem a few other airports deal with also, I
understand.
The La Linea residential buildings are well clear. As for that silly
radio mast that the Spanish put up, even it is not a 'critical
problem'. You will find control towers just as close at other airports,
- though it would be better if it was located inline with nearer to the
middle of the runway than an end.
As for other buildings, Devils Tower Road is just as close as buildings
at heatherow, which are exposed to a far greater risk (due to number of
flights). Its sometimes said that there is no where for an aircraft to
crash anywhere near Heathrow other than on people.
As for Glacis, Laguna etc, these are totoally out of the way.
Seriously, you are misrepresenting the risk. It only seems like its
dangerous because of the flight paths - but this is a case of avoiding
things that exists on a map only. If we get straight in and out (or
virtually that) paths believe me it will be a lot more boring.
Jim Watt
wrote:
>It's not that bad actually. No where near!
>
>The main item at Gibraltar airport is just cross winds - caused by the
>rock itself.
>
>In terms of the height of objects, the primary concern is by far yacht
>masts.
>If not activly checked for by the tower and inspection vechicles
>immediatly before a takeoff/landing they would have the ability to get
>fatally in the way.
>But that is a problem a few other airports deal with also, I
>understand.
>
>The La Linea residential buildings are well clear. As for that silly
>radio mast that the Spanish put up, even it is not a 'critical
>problem'. You will find control towers just as close at other airports,
>- though it would be better if it was located inline with nearer to the
>middle of the runway than an end.
>
>As for other buildings, Devils Tower Road is just as close as buildings
>at heatherow, which are exposed to a far greater risk (due to number of
>flights). Its sometimes said that there is no where for an aircraft to
>crash anywhere near Heathrow other than on people.
>As for Glacis, Laguna etc, these are totoally out of the way.
>
>Seriously, you are misrepresenting the risk. It only seems like its
>dangerous because of the flight paths - but this is a case of avoiding
>things that exists on a map only. If we get straight in and out (or
>virtually that) paths believe me it will be a lot more boring.
Yeah but ...
Something needs to go. The pilot of the first aircraft to land
from Spain today looked at it and agreed.
http://www.gibnet.com/images/tall.htm
Lynx
>
> I have, you fail to see it. You ask "But imagine an apt built within the
> region. What
> role would there be for Gib apt?" I then go on to inform that apart from
> Malaga, there are already another two airports within the SPanish region.
> If the Sp region needs more air links, they already have Seville and Jerez
> which are underutilised. That they are or are not of use to Gib is not
> what you asked - you asked what would become of Gib airport if there were
> additional facilities within Spain. You have marked me incorrect for not
> answering the question you did not ask! People taking examinations are
> often reminded to answer the question that was asked, not the question
> they would have preferred to have been asked. It also is encumbent on the
> examiners to mark the answers given in response to the question asked, not
> the question the examiners themselves had wished they had asked in the
> first place. So there.
Yes, I can see how relevant your answer is to my question. Perhaps if I had
asked you if the Campo needs an apt, you might have answered, what might
become of Gib apt. As to your suggestion that the Campo doesn't need an apt,
the sales of tkts will determine that. Gib, incidentally, also stands to
gain considerably, financially and doing away with its isolation.
As the crow flies, the aprox distances between Seville-Gib150Km
Malaga-Gib75Km Jerez-Gib60Km. Cities and towns within this region of
Andalusia are in many instances divided by multiple sierras, making travel
between them a long and tortuous experience. The population of the Campo
alone is 237457. Gib is a focal point in the Campo.
>>> Madrid that big? Heathrow, Frankfurt, Schipol, Berlin, Zurich, Parid
>>> CDG?
>>
>> They're just as far if not further from Gib than LON apts. You have still
>> not made a valid point.
>
> Again no! You stated that Madrid was the second largest airport in Europe,
> (snip)
Nonsense. Gib apt is the topic of the posting. Not Europe. You're confusing
oranges with apples.
>>>> There's no such ignorance in France about the Iberian Peninsular nor
>>>> about Gib. The French had a substantial input into Spain's modern
>>>> regional-administrative subdivisions, amongst other things, dating back
>>>> to the French, unwelcomed, invasion.
>>>
>>> Suppose not a Frenchman then, A Pole, Dane, Hungarian, Italian,
>>> Romanian - you name it.
>>
>> You've been bitten by the POME bug, which makes its victims assume the
>> rest of the world's in the dark At any rate, you're still not making a
>> valid point.
>
> You really have lost the plot Bruce! As far as the rest of the world is
> concerned, the world IS in the dark about Gib because Gib is a very very
> small place which, though able to punch bve its weight, still fails to
> make any significant ripples in the world pond - which is just fine by me
> BTW, FWIW. Therefore, if Iberia misrepresents Gib on its website by
> variously listing it as being part of the UK or within Spain (depending on
> which direction you're flying) or somewhere else in Europe not otherwise
> specified, it would not be surprising that someone not quite conversant
> with these matters geopolitical might be quite befuddled as to where he
> was actually going to land.
All maps indicate Gib as being part of the UK. So technically they're right.
If the world's in the dark about Gib, perhaps it is because no one can take
Gib seriously.
> So, because the Cayman Islands are not a soverign state I expect ot see
> them in a holiday brochire under "Holiday destinations in the UK"?
Gib's in Europe. End of story.
> With people like you denying a national status for Gib, we shall certainly
> never achieve it! Goebels was known to say that a lie repeated often
> enough becomes acepted as truth. It is a tactic used by our northerly
> neighbours often, with much of the world believing by their
> misrepresentation that Gib is a den of thieves and smugglers. I am merely
> trying their own game.
Whatever gibraltarians want for Gib, they should have. Why not another
referendum on this issue? Being realistic should not be confused with being
anti-anything.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:CvLgh.9033$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Gib cannot be blamed for its small size. There is the "health and safety"
> aaspect of this of course, ensuring safety. We could of course point to
> many years of no trouble and the regulatory enthusiasts would jump and
> tell you that just because there has been nothing wrong does not
> necessarily mean that all is right. Fair enough, but when nothing has been
> wrong for so very long, perhaps you need to accept that thaings are in
> fact all right, and you had set your safety margin tooo genereously in the
> first place. How about Schipol, where everything was by the book yet a
> Jumbo managed to hit a high-rise building?
Humans are a most adaptable creature. Plonk them up a tree and they'll
become accustomed to living there. Throwing human error into the topic
discussed, doesn't proof anything. Any place where crossing an airport
tarmac on foot is considered "normal", is in need of help.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:6WRgh.9198$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>> news:91c7o2hfdjea4p4lc...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
>>> crashed into the refinery ?
>>
>> No one could wish for such a disaster. The refinery could best be
>> relocated, as it is not a significant employer and, it compromises the
>> health of residents in the surrounding region, including Gib. Then again
>> the refinery's an indirect contributor to Gib's economy.
>
> Not so sure. They employ v few if any Gibraltarians, doesn't actually
> employ that many people, and it was set up supposedly to offset the
> stagnation of the Sp economy of the region after the Sp closure of the
> border in the 60s. Gib and it were next to each other, but had nothing to
> do with each other. Sure it supplies much of the fuels bought by Gib - but
> they could be sourced elsewhere.
Are you sure you're not a taxi driver? Why can't you go straight to the
point? In your last line you agree with me, then go onto say Gib could
source fuels from elsewhere. Any elsewhere would be further a field, costing
more to get, thinning the pocket lining. So who in Gib wants the refinery
relocated?
>> What would happen if an a/c crashed into Glacis and Marina Complex, or
>> Laguna Estate or Devil's Tower Rd, or La Linea's residential area closest
>> to the frontier? Let's face it, Gib's apt is reminescent of what Kai Tak
>> apt used to be.
>
> Carnage, just as when an aircraft hits any built-up area. But most crashes
> of aircraft into built up areas occur when these areas are NOT around the
> airport. In any case, most of the crashes of an aircraft on approach /
> take-off for obvious reasons occur in a straight line with the runway,
> which in Gib's case would see just the aircraft involved, and perhaps one
> unlucky patera.
Your crystal ball's due for a service..
Lynx
"darius" <Darius....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166278834.0...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>
> Lynx wrote:
>
>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>> news:91c7o2hfdjea4p4lc...@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
>> > crashed into the refinery ?
>>
>> No one could wish for such a disaster. The refinery could best be
>> relocated,
>> as it is not a significant employer and, it compromises the health of
>> residents in the surrounding region, including Gib. Then again the
>> refinery's an indirect contributor to Gib's economy. What would happen if
>> an
>> a/c crashed into Glacis and Marina Complex, or Laguna Estate or Devil's
>> Tower Rd, or La Linea's residential area closest to the frontier? Let's
>> face
>> it, Gib's apt is reminescent of what Kai Tak apt used to be.
>
>
> It's not that bad actually. No where near!
Not quite, you're right.
> The main item at Gibraltar airport is just cross winds - caused by the
> rock itself.
And there should be underground crossing facility for pedestrians and
vehicle traffic.
> In terms of the height of objects, the primary concern is by far yacht
> masts.
> If not activly checked for by the tower and inspection vechicles
> immediatly before a takeoff/landing they would have the ability to get
> fatally in the way.
> But that is a problem a few other airports deal with also, I
> understand.
>
> The La Linea residential buildings are well clear. As for that silly
> radio mast that the Spanish put up, even it is not a 'critical
> problem'. You will find control towers just as close at other airports,
> - though it would be better if it was located inline with nearer to the
> middle of the runway than an end.
>
> As for other buildings, Devils Tower Road is just as close as buildings
> at heatherow, which are exposed to a far greater risk (due to number of
> flights). Its sometimes said that there is no where for an aircraft to
> crash anywhere near Heathrow other than on people.
> As for Glacis, Laguna etc, these are totoally out of the way.
>
> Seriously, you are misrepresenting the risk. It only seems like its
> dangerous because of the flight paths - but this is a case of avoiding
> things that exists on a map only. If we get straight in and out (or
> virtually that) paths believe me it will be a lot more boring.
Like our friend K, you too seem to suggest that any possible aviation
disaster in Gib, could only take place within the constraints of the width
of the tarmac. Perhaps you're both right. Space is at a premium, so people
become accustomed to residing closer to airports. I don't recommend it.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Nasty piece of work, that is.
darius
Lynx wrote:
> Like our friend K, you too seem to suggest that any possible aviation
> disaster in Gib, could only take place within the constraints of the width
> of the tarmac.
I said nothing of the sort. Planes fly over people all the time. Look
at the point I was making with regard to Heathrow, look at a map, if a
plan fails during take off there it is going to land on people and
houses.
Yes planes can be blown about by winds, etc, during landings.
But if they are being blown about to the extent that they are so far
from the central line of the runway and near to some object the pilots
would have ALREADY aborted the landing, while still far away from the
object.
Not because the object is there, but because there would be no way you
could land on any runway if you were being blown about that much - the
ammount that would be required to, in the case of gibraltar, bring you
near to the rock or buildings.
But I stress this would have nothing to do with the presence of the
rock/building, it would just be because planes don't fly about so low
unless they are in the process of landing, and if you are that far away
form the centre of the runway there is no way you would be able to land
at any airport, even one surrounded by open fields.
In the case of take offs, it is only obstructions at the end of the
runway you need to worry about, the middle of the runway could have
skyscrapers beside the wing tips and it would be perfectly safe (though
obviously that would make it unsafely tight for landings).
What I said was that the high buildings and high ground are not in the
same orientation as the runway, infact (excluding that radio mast) they
are almost 90 degres to the runway and at about the middle of its
length. That is perfectly safe.
If a plane crashs elsewhere on the rock, it will be because it has a
problem. There are plenty of other airport around the world with the
same perpendicular high ground.
> Perhaps you're both right. Space is at a premium, so people
> become accustomed to residing closer to airports. I don't recommend it.
This has NOTHING to do with space being at a premium. [Though obviously
if space wernt' the airport would be located further away to avoid wind
disruption. And allow single radar 360 coverage, etc]
Start at the beinging:
Do you accept that around the world aircraft are flying over peoples
heads? (Forget about landing and taking off, just flying about).
I accept that, and I accept that there is a risk that one could land on
me in either in England or Spain or even Gibraltar.
Therefore I'm not saying that a plane can't crash outside the airport
in Gibraltar, what I am saying is that this is a normal risk, nothing
about Gibraltar particuarly agrivates the problem. Though the risk is
far lower at Gibraltar since the runway orientation is not over
residential land but sea, and that is the most dangerous area - beyond
that area its pot luck what lands on your head, be it bird droppings, a
crashing airbus, or bits of SkyLab.
Next, do you accept that if a plane finds itself way being blown
totally off couse to land, then it climbs away anyway, quite sharply?
Because the simple do fly like that unless actually in the process of
landing, etc.
D you accept that people around the world live close to airports?
[Seriously, look at Heathrow, I believe it is officially overdue for a
crash.]
And do you accept that other airports have high ground at 90' to their
runways all over the place. In face a few significant airports do.
BTW, when were you last in Gibraltar? I think some of your distances
are WAY out.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> had asked you if the Campo needs an apt, you might have answered, what
> might become of Gib apt. As to your suggestion that the Campo doesn't need
> an apt, the sales of tkts will determine that. Gib, incidentally, also
> stands to gain considerably, financially and doing away with its
> isolation.
> As the crow flies, the aprox distances between Seville-Gib150Km
> Malaga-Gib75Km Jerez-Gib60Km. Cities and towns within this region of
> Andalusia are in many instances divided by multiple sierras, making travel
> between them a long and tortuous experience. The population of the Campo
> alone is 237457. Gib is a focal point in the Campo.
I don't doubt that Gib is a focal point, though it too is VERY isolated
road-wise. Remember that the Sp road system for decades excluded any need to
go to Gib (shut border) and no-one much needs go to La Linea. Even today
there are scant roadsigns pointing the way to Gib. All of this is of course
the fault of successive Sp govts, who always had it in their power to build
the necessary roads, if they wanted to.
> All maps indicate Gib as being part of the UK. So technically they're
> right. If the world's in the dark about Gib, perhaps it is because no one
> can take Gib seriously.
No it isn't! Gib may be a UKOT, a dependent territory, call it what you
will, but it is NOT part of the UK.
>
>> So, because the Cayman Islands are not a soverign state I expect ot see
>> them in a holiday brochire under "Holiday destinations in the UK"?
>
> Gib's in Europe. End of story.
Oh it is in Eirope, but so is everywhere else in Europe within Europe, and
part of a country within Europe. According to Iberia, Gib is either in the
UK or Europe or in Spain (depending on which country you state you're in to
start with). Only ONE of these is correct (Europe) but unlike everywhwere
elese that is in Europe, all claims as to which country in Europe Gib is in
are wrong!
>
>> With people like you denying a national status for Gib, we shall
>> certainly never achieve it! Goebels was known to say that a lie repeated
>> often enough becomes acepted as truth. It is a tactic used by our
>> northerly neighbours often, with much of the world believing by their
>> misrepresentation that Gib is a den of thieves and smugglers. I am merely
>> trying their own game.
>
> Whatever gibraltarians want for Gib, they should have. Why not another
> referendum on this issue? Being realistic should not be confused with
> being anti-anything.
Correction. Whatever Gibraltarians want for Gib, WE should have.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
The only recorded incident of a person having a contretemps with an aircraft
was a proven suicide attempt that was succesful, back in the late 50s /
early 60s. Whatever the security considerations there, they are obviously
adequate for the purpose.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "darius" <Darius....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1166278834.0...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Lynx wrote:
>>
>>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>> news:91c7o2hfdjea4p4lc...@4ax.com...
>>> > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>> >
> And there should be underground crossing facility for pedestrians and
> vehicle traffic.
On their way.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em0u5...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:6WRgh.9198$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>> news:91c7o2hfdjea4p4lc...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 05:30:10 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have you any idea of what would happen if an aircraft
>>>> crashed into the refinery ?
>>>
>>> No one could wish for such a disaster. The refinery could best be
>>> relocated, as it is not a significant employer and, it compromises the
>>> health of residents in the surrounding region, including Gib. Then again
>>> the refinery's an indirect contributor to Gib's economy.
>>
>> Not so sure. They employ v few if any Gibraltarians, doesn't actually
>> employ that many people, and it was set up supposedly to offset the
>> stagnation of the Sp economy of the region after the Sp closure of the
>> border in the 60s. Gib and it were next to each other, but had nothing to
>> do with each other. Sure it supplies much of the fuels bought by Gib -
>> but they could be sourced elsewhere.
>
> Are you sure you're not a taxi driver? Why can't you go straight to the
> point? In your last line you agree with me, then go onto say Gib could
> source fuels from elsewhere. Any elsewhere would be further a field,
> costing more to get, thinning the pocket lining. So who in Gib wants the
> refinery relocated?
ESG. I might do too perhaps, once I see the evidence for its toxic nature
and its effects on the local populations. Or having seen these, I might not.
>> Carnage, just as when an aircraft hits any built-up area. But most
>> crashes of aircraft into built up areas occur when these areas are NOT
>> around the airport. In any case, most of the crashes of an aircraft on
>> approach / take-off for obvious reasons occur in a straight line with the
>> runway, which in Gib's case would see just the aircraft involved, and
>> perhaps one unlucky patera.
>
> Your crystal ball's due for a service..
Every 1000miles.
K
darius
Lynx wrote:
It happens every day in Gibraltar, the airport that recieves a very low
number of flights and aircraft on the gorund recieve appropriate
security.
Anyway, I think you could say that is normal as far as the people of
Gibraltar are concerned. The people of Norway recieve feet of Snow
every year, and they spend half of it in darkness, I think that could
be said to be normal for them.
Incidentally, roads that cross runways are also normal at a few small
US runways in rural areas I understand.
No one in Gibraltar claims it is *typical* to find roads crossing
runways, they however do believe it is safely and effectivly managed.
You seem to think it is a relevant point in someway, why?
Do you mind if I ask, how old are you?
Also, you seem to think people in Gibraltar ARE claiming it is typical,
I don't think anyone in Gib would claim that. Can I check, is your
first langauge English?
Ken
Dear Darius, before he tells you, let me inform you that Lynx is a Jani of
Jani extraction. He's been living in Australia for some years now, so
perhaps his version of English is at variance with what English was when he
last lived within sight of the clock tower at the Dockyard (S gate). But
prepare to be flamed!
K
Jim Watt
wrote:
>No it isn't! Gib may be a UKOT, a dependent territory, call it what you
>will, but it is NOT part of the UK.
As I keep saying, its a UK Overseas territory.
However, for EU purposes its part of the UK and the
airoport is a UK regional airport.
Personally I would say its a European Airport.
Lynx
>
> Lynx wrote:
>
>> Like our friend K, you too seem to suggest that any possible aviation
>> disaster in Gib, could only take place within the constraints of the
>> width
>> of the tarmac.
>
> I said nothing of the sort. Planes fly over people all the time. Look
> at the point I was making with regard to Heathrow, look at a map, if a
> plan fails during take off there it is going to land on people and
> houses.
I landed in Bombay (Mumbai) once, enroute to London. I thought we had made
an emergency landing in the middle of a village somewhere.
> In the case of take offs, it is only obstructions at the end of the
> runway you need to worry about, the middle of the runway could have
> skyscrapers beside the wing tips and it would be perfectly safe (though
> obviously that would make it unsafely tight for landings).
There's no need to contradict you on that one, is there.
On a sojourn in Thailand, I observed the density, rapidity and literally
uncontrolled manner of the local traffic. In general discussion, I asked a
local if there were any number of fatal accidents. His reply, "the Thais
believe that two points only meet when they come into contact". Describing
the philosophy, holding the thumb and index close, but not touching. I never
learned of their human road toll.
> If a plane crashs elsewhere on the rock, it will be because it has a
> problem. (snip)
I figured that.
>> Perhaps you're both right. Space is at a premium, so people
>> become accustomed to residing closer to airports. I don't recommend it.
>
> This has NOTHING to do with space being at a premium. [Though obviously
> if space wernt' the airport would be located further away to avoid wind
> disruption. And allow single radar 360 coverage, etc]
With a yes and no 'approach' you can't go wrong.
> D you accept that people around the world live close to airports?
> [Seriously, look at Heathrow, I believe it is officially overdue for a
> crash.]
I fail to see the relevance between Heathrow and Gib.
> BTW, when were you last in Gibraltar? I think some of your distances
> are WAY out.
One of the thrills for any visitor to Gib is crossing the runway on foot.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:iTWgh.9231$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:em0u5...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>>
>> Yes, I can see how relevant your answer is to my question. Perhaps if I
>> had asked you if the Campo needs an apt, you might have answered, what
>> might become of Gib apt. As to your suggestion that the Campo doesn't
>> need an apt, the sales of tkts will determine that. Gib, incidentally,
>> also stands to gain considerably, financially and doing away with its
>> isolation.
>> As the crow flies, the aprox distances between Seville-Gib150Km
>> Malaga-Gib75Km Jerez-Gib60Km. Cities and towns within this region of
>> Andalusia are in many instances divided by multiple sierras, making
>> travel between them a long and tortuous experience. The population of the
>> Campo alone is 237457. Gib is a focal point in the Campo.
>
> I don't doubt that Gib is a focal point, though it too is VERY isolated
> road-wise. Remember that the Sp road system for decades excluded any need
> to go to Gib (shut border) and no-one much needs go to La Linea. Even
> today there are scant roadsigns pointing the way to Gib. All of this is of
> course the fault of successive Sp govts, who always had it in their power
> to build the necessary roads, if they wanted to.
And Spain should consult the GoG on its road building and signages, of
course.
When Spain isolated Gib, Spain was wrong. Now Spain agrees to joint use of
Gib apt, commiting its national flag carrier to operate the route
Madrid-Gibralta, and Spain is still wrong. What is your wish for Gibraltar?
>> All maps indicate Gib as being part of the UK. So technically they're
>> right. If the world's in the dark about Gib, perhaps it is because no one
>> can take Gib seriously.
>
> No it isn't! Gib may be a UKOT, a dependent territory, call it what you
> will, but it is NOT part of the UK.
Agreed. It is part of Europe. But that doesn't suit you either.
>>> So, because the Cayman Islands are not a soverign state I expect ot see
>>> them in a holiday brochire under "Holiday destinations in the UK"?
>>
>> Gib's in Europe. End of story.
>
> Oh it is in Eirope, but so is everywhere else in Europe within Europe, and
> part of a country within Europe. According to Iberia, Gib is either in the
> UK or Europe or in Spain (depending on which country you state you're in
> to start with). Only ONE of these is correct (Europe) but unlike
> everywhwere elese that is in Europe, all claims as to which country in
> Europe Gib is in are wrong!
Iberia's services from Gib are targeted at the Spanish market in Spain. So,
for those intending to fly from Spain departing from Gib, they are advised
Gib's your starting point, you can access Gib as you would a domestic
Spanish airport. For its market flying out of Madrid, the sales pitch is,
you're landing in a UK jurisdiction, being Gib. I cannot see what you're so
worked-up about. I'd be far more concerned about being a belonger.
>>> With people like you denying a national status for Gib, we shall
>>> certainly never achieve it! Goebels was known to say that a lie repeated
>>> often enough becomes acepted as truth. It is a tactic used by our
>>> northerly neighbours often, with much of the world believing by their
>>> misrepresentation that Gib is a den of thieves and smugglers. I am
>>> merely trying their own game.
>>
>> Whatever gibraltarians want for Gib, they should have. Why not another
>> referendum on this issue? Being realistic should not be confused with
>> being anti-anything.
>
> Correction. Whatever Gibraltarians want for Gib, WE should have.
That sounds like a royal wee to me. When have expat Gibraltarians been
considered by the Gov of Gib? Gibraltarians are considered a people for
certain things but not for others, depending which way the wind's blowing.
Located where two continents meet, where the Atlantic meets the
Mediterranean, in geographical Iberian/Spanish territory, controlled by
Great Britain as a military outpost. Chances of Gib ever gaining national
and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to control 7000
plus voters.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:52:31 -0000, "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>No it isn't! Gib may be a UKOT, a dependent territory, call it what you
>>will, but it is NOT part of the UK.
>
> As I keep saying, its a UK Overseas territory.
>
> However, for EU purposes its part of the UK and the
> airoport is a UK regional airport.
Touché
> Personally I would say its a European Airport.
And touché again.
Lynx
> ESG. I might do too perhaps, once I see the evidence for its toxic nature
> and its effects on the local populations. Or having seen these, I might
> not.
Are there any refineries in Manchester, close to you?
>> Your crystal ball's due for a service..
>
> Every 1000miles.
Overdue, surely....
Lynx
Right. On the their way, a patita.....
Lynx
>
> The only recorded incident of a person having a contretemps with an
> aircraft was a proven suicide attempt that was succesful, back in the late
> 50s / early 60s. Whatever the security considerations there, they are
> obviously adequate for the purpose.
Excellent. Just needs a billboard announcing the facility for potential
suicides.
The story was of a Spanish worker, on bicycle, getting caught out in mid
crossing of the tarmac, when an RAF a/c had to make an emergency landing.
That poor soul must have had inside knowledge of a pending emergency
landing.
Lynx
(snip)
>The people of Norway recieve feet of Snow
> every year, and they spend half of it in darkness, I think that could
> be said to be normal for them.
That pattern doesn't fit in with our circadian rhythm.
> Incidentally, roads that cross runways are also normal at a few small
> US runways in rural areas I understand.
There are other things in us, we Europenas do not accept as normal.
> No one in Gibraltar claims it is *typical* to find roads crossing
> runways, they however do believe it is safely and effectivly managed.
> You seem to think it is a relevant point in someway, why?
The traffic pedestrian and vehicular traffic between Gib and Spain is
considerable, daily and consistance. A passage safe from any landing a/c is
a must.
> Do you mind if I ask, how old are you?
I'm 12
> Also, you seem to think people in Gibraltar ARE claiming it is typical,
> I don't think anyone in Gib would claim that. Can I check, is your
> first langauge English?
Finnish
Your syntax tells me you're not Gibraltarian nor British, though you may
reside in Gib.
Lynx
(snip)
> Dear Darius, before he tells you, let me inform you that Lynx is a Jani of
> Jani extraction. He's been living in Australia for some years now, so
> perhaps his version of English is at variance with what English was when
> he last lived within sight of the clock tower at the Dockyard (S gate).
> But prepare to be flamed!
Thanks K. Darius comes across as a noble well meaning resident. Perhaps he
should declare his bonafide so we don't run the risk of inadvertently
offending him.
The last few days, much like Gib's Spring weather, have been perfect for
cricket. The Pomes are putting on a good fight, but they won't be taking the
Ashes with them. Warne's about to drill a hole in the batman's bat! This
guy's not only powerful in his delivery, he can spin the ball off glass!
Jim Watt
Chances of Gib ever gaining national
>and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to control 7000
>plus voters.
More like 20,000 - you are out of date
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:46:11 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
> Chances of Gib ever gaining national
>
>>and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to control 7000
>>plus voters.
>
> More like 20,000 - you are out of date
20,000 voters? Please explain.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em1j8...@news4.newsguy.com...
>> ESG. I might do too perhaps, once I see the evidence for its toxic
>> nature and its effects on the local populations. Or having seen these, I
>> might not.
>
> Are there any refineries in Manchester, close to you?
No idea.
>
>>> Your crystal ball's due for a service..
>>
>> Every 1000miles.
>
> Overdue, surely....
Due in March. Sorry, should have read every 10,000 miles.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Last I saw Oz was leading 40-15, 5-3 in the first set. Or was it 3-2 at the
end of the first half? Who kicks off in the second half?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
No, seriously, a tunnel is likely to be on the way real soon now.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
20,000 voters, of who 60% turned out for the referendum, of who 60% voted in
favour of acceoting the new constitution. 60% of 60% of 20,000 is 7000. 40%
of the turnout voted against the constitution, 40% of 60% of 20,000 is 5000.
Of the 20,000 voters, 12,000 turned out and the other 8000 abstained by not
bothering to show up. They can hardly complain about the outcome if they
chose not to participate in the poll. In Gib unlike Australia votng is not
compulsory.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Of course it is. Now, what country is the airport in, if one had to define
its location by country so that people who give not a fig about geopolitics
might know under which heading to search for it?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em1j8...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:iTWgh.9231$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:em0u5...@news2.newsguy.com...
>>>>
> course.
Of course not. But given that the A340 (or its latest incarnation) is in
effect an Andalucian coastal road, it makes sense to sign up which towns,
cities, villages etc are coming up. While still in Fuengirola and Estepona,
you get notices as to the disatnce remaining to Algeciras and Cadiz - but
the ONLY mention of Gib is at the very turnof you need to take in order to
get there. Would it not make sense to warn motorists in this highly
tourist-orientated area (ahere a lot of drivers are not intimately familiar
with the road on which they are travelling) of an approaching relevant turn
off? All other destinations are so marked en-route, except Gib.
> When Spain isolated Gib, Spain was wrong. Now Spain agrees to joint use of
> Gib apt, commiting its national flag carrier to operate the route
> Madrid-Gibralta, and Spain is still wrong.
No they are not wrong now. What is wrong is the way they have listed Gib on
their website. Have a look yourself at www.iberia.com
> What is your wish for Gibraltar?
To be left alone to its own devices, and to be treated in the same way as
everywhere else.
>
>>> All maps indicate Gib as being part of the UK. So technically they're
>>> right. If the world's in the dark about Gib, perhaps it is because no
>>> one can take Gib seriously.
>>
>> No it isn't! Gib may be a UKOT, a dependent territory, call it what you
>> will, but it is NOT part of the UK.
>
> Agreed. It is part of Europe. But that doesn't suit you either.
Of course it is - but when you look up Manchester Airport you don't look up
Europe, you look up UK. When you look up Paris you look under France, not
Europe. When you look up Luxembourg, you look up under Luxembourg, not
Europe. When you want to go Grand Cayman, you look it up under Cayman
Islands, noit under UK nor under Carribean. So why when you look up Gib, you
look up under Europe and NOT Gib? See what I mean when I say I want Gib to
be treated in the same way that everywhere else is treated?
>> Oh it is in Eirope, but so is everywhere else in Europe within Europe,
>> and part of a country within Europe. According to Iberia, Gib is either
>> in the UK or Europe or in Spain (depending on which country you state
>> you're in to start with). Only ONE of these is correct (Europe) but
>> unlike everywhwere elese that is in Europe, all claims as to which
>> country in Europe Gib is in are wrong!
>
> Iberia's services from Gib are targeted at the Spanish market in Spain.
> So, for those intending to fly from Spain departing from Gib, they are
> advised Gib's your starting point, you can access Gib as you would a
> domestic Spanish airport. For its market flying out of Madrid, the sales
> pitch is, you're landing in a UK jurisdiction, being Gib. I cannot see
> what you're so worked-up about. I'd be far more concerned about being a
> belonger.
I already belong, so it's not an issue for me.
>>> Whatever gibraltarians want for Gib, they should have. Why not another
>>> referendum on this issue? Being realistic should not be confused with
>>> being anti-anything.
>>
>> Correction. Whatever Gibraltarians want for Gib, WE should have.
>
> That sounds like a royal wee to me.
No, it's a collective WE, nothing to do with relief of the royals' bladders.
> When have expat Gibraltarians been considered by the Gov of Gib?
> Gibraltarians are considered a people for certain things but not for
> others, depending which way the wind's blowing.
Another issue altogether.
> Located where two continents meet, where the Atlantic meets the
> Mediterranean, in geographical Iberian/Spanish territory, controlled by
> Great Britain as a military outpost. Chances of Gib ever gaining national
> and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to control 7000
> plus voters.
Wash your mouth out! Gib is in Iberia, but it is no more in Spain than
Portugal is. Spain ends at the border with Gib, Gib extends from that border
south to the limits of its territorial waters.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em1j8...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> The only recorded incident of a person having a contretemps with an
>> aircraft was a proven suicide attempt that was succesful, back in the
>> late 50s / early 60s. Whatever the security considerations there, they
>> are obviously adequate for the purpose.
>
> Excellent. Just needs a billboard announcing the facility for potential
> suicides.
You can't stop suicides. Yes of course you can stop suicide attempts, but if
a person is intent on doing so, you cannot stop him/her. The person involved
has to get past your clutches once, you have to stop him every time.
The same logic suggests that terrorists if sufficiently determined will
cause havoc. The security forces have to foil each and every plot each and
every time. in order to be successful the terrorists only needs to slip
through the net once. One in a thousand, once in a million it matters not-
just once will do.
> The story was of a Spanish worker, on bicycle, getting caught out in mid
> crossing of the tarmac, when an RAF a/c had to make an emergency landing.
> That poor soul must have had inside knowledge of a pending emergency
> landing.
Yes. The chap had left suicide notes. He had gone to the runway waiting for
a 'plane to come along. That it was an emergency unscheduled landing which
he availed himself of only changed the time of day of his suicide.
K
Jim Watt
I can't explain all of them, you will need to
ask their parents ...
Lynx
>
> Of course not. But given that the A340 (or its latest incarnation) is in
> effect an Andalucian coastal road, it makes sense to sign up which towns,
> cities, villages etc are coming up. While still in Fuengirola and
> Estepona, you get notices as to the disatnce remaining to Algeciras and
> Cadiz - but the ONLY mention of Gib is at the very turnof you need to take
> in order to get there. Would it not make sense to warn motorists in this
> highly tourist-orientated area (ahere a lot of drivers are not intimately
> familiar with the road on which they are travelling) of an approaching
> relevant turn off? All other destinations are so marked en-route, except
> Gib.
Agreed. There's no argument with what you say. One suspects things might
change with the joint use of the apt. Signages to the Gib Apt may become a
common feature.
>> When Spain isolated Gib, Spain was wrong. Now Spain agrees to joint use
>> of Gib apt, commiting its national flag carrier to operate the route
>> Madrid-Gibralta, and Spain is still wrong.
>
> No they are not wrong now. What is wrong is the way they have listed Gib
> on their website. Have a look yourself at www.iberia.com
I can understand you showing some concern. But tell me, isn't Iberia selling
its services from Gib Apt. as a service to the Campo de Gibraltar region?
For Iberia to do otherwise, they'd be integrating Gibraltar into the Campo,
and in turn into Spain. I read it for what it is. Iberia Airlines are
selling and advertising their service to and from the Campo de Gibraltar.
How they spend their investors money advertising the route, is really their
business. In the end both Gibraltar and Campo citizens will benefit. It's
time things were put in their respective places. Politics should go and get
Filed Under Carnal Knowledge.
>> What is your wish for Gibraltar?
>
> To be left alone to its own devices, and to be treated in the same way as
> everywhere else.
You worry me with your choice of words, "devices", really!
>> Agreed. It is part of Europe. But that doesn't suit you either.
>
> Of course it is - but when you look up Manchester Airport you don't look
> up Europe, you look up UK. When you look up Paris you look under France,
> not Europe. When you look up Luxembourg, you look up under Luxembourg, not
> Europe. When you want to go Grand Cayman, you look it up under Cayman
> Islands, noit under UK nor under Carribean. So why when you look up Gib,
> you look up under Europe and NOT Gib? See what I mean when I say I want
> Gib to be treated in the same way that everywhere else is treated?
I agree with you. Perhaps because I'm so far from the eye of the hurricane,
I can clearly see the sensibilities of citizens on both sides of the devide.
The Iberia market is predominantly in Spain. Selling Gib Apt. as an
independent point of origin, would go against all the dogmas of the Spanish
National ethos. Instead of selling they'd be creating a problem, one which
would poorly serve Gib as well. The way they're doing it, is diplomatic, and
serving a financially viable product. Like it or not, they are selling Gib
as a point of departure and destination. But they're doing so, selling it to
their citizens.
Gib being British property, it should be the British Gov. you should be
questioning, not a business entity like Iberia.
>> I cannot see what you're so worked-up about. I'd be far more concerned
>> about being a belonger.
>
> I already belong, so it's not an issue for me.
I know you belong, we all belong. My point was the rediculous and fragile
concept behind the name, belonger.
>> When have expat Gibraltarians been considered by the Gov of Gib?
>> Gibraltarians are considered a people for certain things but not for
>> others, depending which way the wind's blowing.
>
> Another issue altogether.
So's Hong Kong another issue. Another belonger who was served on a platter.
>> Located where two continents meet, where the Atlantic meets the
>> Mediterranean, in geographical Iberian/Spanish territory, controlled by
>> Great Britain as a military outpost. Chances of Gib ever gaining national
>> and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to control 7000
>> plus voters.
>
> Wash your mouth out! Gib is in Iberia, but it is no more in Spain than
> Portugal is. Spain ends at the border with Gib, Gib extends from that
> border south to the limits of its territorial waters.
Portugal was a sovereign monarchical country when a rabs still called
Gibel-Tarik home-sweet-home. There is no comparison between Gib and
Portugal, none. Anyone who claims that Gib's not connected to Spain
geographically and historically, is in a state of factual historical denial.
Lynx
I'm baffled by the instant elasticity of Gib's population. It grows and
shrinks like a blooming yo yo. From 17,000 to 20,000 to 29,000 in no time.
So, what is the population, and what % are of voting age. Also hwo many
non-British, non Gibraltarians inhabit Gib.
I don't agree with compulsory voting, the donkeys get too much of a say.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:qj2hh.9376$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:em1j8...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>> ESG. I might do too perhaps, once I see the evidence for its toxic
>>> nature and its effects on the local populations. Or having seen these, I
>>> might not.
>>
>> Are there any refineries in Manchester, close to you?
>
> No idea.
Didn't think so.
>>>> Your crystal ball's due for a service..
>>>
>>> Every 1000miles.
>>
>> Overdue, surely....
>
> Due in March. Sorry, should have read every 10,000 miles.
What's the cost of annual car rego for a normal sedan.
Lynx
>
snip
>>>> And there should be underground crossing facility for pedestrians and
>>>> vehicle traffic.
>>>
>>> On their way.
>>
>> Right. On the their way, a patita.....
>
> No, seriously, a tunnel is likely to be on the way real soon now.
That's great news. Hope they fit it with escalators and all. What's the
trajectory of this tunnel?
Lynx
>
snip
>> The last few days, much like Gib's Spring weather, have been perfect for
>> cricket. The Pomes are putting on a good fight, but they won't be taking
>> the Ashes with them. Warne's about to drill a hole in the batman's bat!
>> This guy's not only powerful in his delivery, he can spin the ball off
>> glass!
>
> Last I saw Oz was leading 40-15, 5-3 in the first set. Or was it 3-2 at
> the end of the first half? Who kicks off in the second half?
No idea, but the beer and tapas are great! Can't watch the game for too
long.
Lynx
>
> You can't stop suicides. Yes of course you can stop suicide attempts, but
> if a person is intent on doing so, you cannot stop him/her. The person
> involved has to get past your clutches once, you have to stop him every
> time.
>
> The same logic suggests that terrorists if sufficiently determined will
> cause havoc. The security forces have to foil each and every plot each and
> every time. in order to be successful the terrorists only needs to slip
> through the net once. One in a thousand, once in a million it matters not-
> just once will do.
It can be a sad world.
>> The story was of a Spanish worker, on bicycle, getting caught out in mid
>> crossing of the tarmac, when an RAF a/c had to make an emergency landing.
>> That poor soul must have had inside knowledge of a pending emergency
>> landing.
>
> Yes. The chap had left suicide notes. He had gone to the runway waiting
> for a 'plane to come along. That it was an emergency unscheduled landing
> which he availed himself of only changed the time of day of his suicide.
Had no idea. On a much lighter and happy tone, a friend told me the garrison
Library was now open to the public. Any idea on this? Have been trying to
get some photocopies. Hope fully I'll get them now???
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Hmm....Yes, they'd know about Gib. Yours wouldn't. You don't like churros,do
you.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
The talk is of a road tunned at the eastern end of the runway, with the
crossing point diverted there. Where the pedestrian tunnel would be located
not sure, perhaps where the crossing is now but underground obviously.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>>> of Gib apt, commiting its national flag carrier to operate the route
>>> Madrid-Gibralta, and Spain is still wrong.
>>
>> No they are not wrong now. What is wrong is the way they have listed Gib
>> on their website. Have a look yourself at www.iberia.com
>
> I can understand you showing some concern. But tell me, isn't Iberia
> selling its services from Gib Apt. as a service to the Campo de Gibraltar
> region?
The website does not list "regions served" to "other regions served". It
list origin and destination airports. Manchester is listed as "Manchester",
not as "Lancaster and the North of England". Therefore Gibraltar needs to be
listed as "Gibraltar" and not "Gibraltar, Campo de"
> For Iberia to do otherwise, they'd be integrating Gibraltar into the
> Campo, and in turn into Spain. I read it for what it is. Iberia Airlines
> are selling and advertising their service to and from the Campo de
> Gibraltar.
Curious. For every other airport they mention only destination and origin,
not region.
>> What is your wish for Gibraltar?
>>
>> To be left alone to its own devices, and to be treated in the same way as
>> everywhere else.
>
> You worry me with your choice of words, "devices", really!
It's a common expression in the UK and Gib, perhaps not in Oz. Really.
>
>>> Agreed. It is part of Europe. But that doesn't suit you either.
>>
>> Of course it is - but when you look up Manchester Airport you don't look
>> up Europe, you look up UK. When you look up Paris you look under France,
>> not Europe. When you look up Luxembourg, you look up under Luxembourg,
>> not Europe. When you want to go Grand Cayman, you look it up under Cayman
>> Islands, noit under UK nor under Carribean. So why when you look up Gib,
>> you look up under Europe and NOT Gib? See what I mean when I say I want
>> Gib to be treated in the same way that everywhere else is treated?
>
> I agree with you. Perhaps because I'm so far from the eye of the
> hurricane, I can clearly see the sensibilities of citizens on both sides
> of the devide. The Iberia market is predominantly in Spain. Selling Gib
> Apt. as an independent point of origin, would go against all the dogmas of
> the Spanish National ethos.
So, because it suits them they are correct? At one time the majority thought
the world tobe flat, but they were always wrong. I recall a favourite
question / answer routine of my junior schooldays. Q. What was the largest
island before thediscovery of Australia? A. Australia. Just becaue we did
not know it was there did not make it any smaller. It's about time they
ceased being so jingoistic. If OTOH they are to be permitted their jingoism
I refuse to surrender mine.
> Instead of selling they'd be creating a problem, one which would poorly
> serve Gib as well. The way they're doing it, is diplomatic, and serving a
> financially viable product. Like it or not, they are selling Gib as a
> point of departure and destination. But they're doing so, selling it to
> their citizens.
> Gib being British property, it should be the British Gov. you should be
> questioning, not a business entity like Iberia.
GoG should have denied the licence until such time as Iberia towed the line,
and if it meant not flying to Gib, then so be it. AFAIC
>
>>> Located where two continents meet, where the Atlantic meets the
>>> Mediterranean, in geographical Iberian/Spanish territory, controlled by
>>> Great Britain as a military outpost. Chances of Gib ever gaining
>>> national and independent status is a pipedream, and a clever ploy to
>>> control 7000 plus voters.
>>
>> Wash your mouth out! Gib is in Iberia, but it is no more in Spain than
>> Portugal is. Spain ends at the border with Gib, Gib extends from that
>> border south to the limits of its territorial waters.
>
> Portugal was a sovereign monarchical country when a rabs still called
> Gibel-Tarik home-sweet-home. There is no comparison between Gib and
> Portugal, none. Anyone who claims that Gib's not connected to Spain
> geographically and historically, is in a state of factual historical
> denial.
Connected to it yes as you say but NOT within it. To say Gib is within Spain
is to accept the Sp argument that Gib is an invasory entity within
legitimate Sp borders.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Can't watch the agme at all! Somnolence-inducing, personally. Can;t get
excited about grown men thwacking a ball arounfd a field.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em3ih...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:qj2hh.9376$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:em1j8...@news4.newsguy.com...
>
> What's the cost of annual car rego for a normal sedan.
Mine varies with the ervice - minor, intermediate + major. No idea as car
uner 3 yrs old and forst 3 yrs servoce included in sale price, though am led
to understand max price around £220. If OTOH you drive a "prestige" brand
i.e. get fleeced at every opportunity, you may be apying over £1k for a
change of plugs and oil.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
29000 is roughly the population. 17000 (17900) is the number against a joint
sovereignty deal in the 2002 referendum on the issue. Voting age as %age of
pop = approx (20,000 / 29,000) x 100 = 70%. As to non Brit, non Giblet, no
idea.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em3ih...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> You can't stop suicides. Yes of course you can stop suicide attempts, but
>> if a person is intent on doing so, you cannot stop him/her. The person
>> involved has to get past your clutches once, you have to stop him every
>> time.
>>
>> The same logic suggests that terrorists if sufficiently determined will
>> cause havoc. The security forces have to foil each and every plot each
>> and every time. in order to be successful the terrorists only needs to
>> slip through the net once. One in a thousand, once in a million it
>> matters not- just once will do.
>
> It can be a sad world.
NOWHERE is it writ that life must be fair.
>
>>> The story was of a Spanish worker, on bicycle, getting caught out in mid
>>> crossing of the tarmac, when an RAF a/c had to make an emergency
>>> landing. That poor soul must have had inside knowledge of a pending
>>> emergency landing.
>>
>> Yes. The chap had left suicide notes. He had gone to the runway waiting
>> for a 'plane to come along. That it was an emergency unscheduled landing
>> which he availed himself of only changed the time of day of his suicide.
>
> Had no idea.
Not unlike anyone choosing to jump in front of a train. The only difference
is the mode of transport, not the principal behind the mode of death
> On a much lighter and happy tone, a friend told me the garrison Library
> was now open to the public. Any idea on this? Have been trying to get some
> photocopies. Hope fully I'll get them now???
No idea. Never wanted anything from the place. Canot confirm nor deny.
K
Lynx
>
> 29000 is roughly the population. 17000 (17900) is the number against a
> joint sovereignty deal in the 2002 referendum on the issue. Voting age as
> %age of pop = approx (20,000 / 29,000) x 100 = 70%. As to non Brit, non
> Giblet, no idea.
Thanks. That throws some light into it. Your decent reply contrasts with
that of 'you know who'.
Lynx
>
> The website does not list "regions served" to "other regions served". It
> list origin and destination airports. Manchester is listed as
> "Manchester", not as "Lancaster and the North of England". Therefore
> Gibraltar needs to be listed as "Gibraltar" and not "Gibraltar, Campo de"
I understand. I read a late article on the subject. Sensitivities fibres
have been touched, understandably so. Let's see how this whole exercise pans
out. Hopefully for the betterment of all involved.
> Curious. For every other airport they mention only destination and origin,
> not region.
I hear and understand your position. The written word can easily be
misconstrued. I for one, am guilty of rocking the boat.
>>> What is your wish for Gibraltar?
>>>
>>> To be left alone to its own devices, and to be treated in the same way
>>> as everywhere else.
>>
>> You worry me with your choice of words, "devices", really!
>
> It's a common expression in the UK and Gib, perhaps not in Oz. Really.
It all depends on who makes up the "we" component, and what that component's
"devices" pretend. The world's full of little kingdoms and banana republics.
> So, because it suits them they are correct? At one time the majority
> thought the world tobe flat, but they were always wrong. I recall a
> favourite question / answer routine of my junior schooldays. Q. What was
> the largest island before thediscovery of Australia? A. Australia. Just
> becaue we did not know it was there did not make it any smaller. It's
> about time they ceased being so jingoistic. If OTOH they are to be
> permitted their jingoism I refuse to surrender mine.
Some experts discussing the reason for sensitive documents not to see the
light of day for 50yrs, or so. So based on the fact that truth changes with
time.
>> Instead of selling they'd be creating a problem, one which would poorly
>> serve Gib as well. The way they're doing it, is diplomatic, and serving a
>> financially viable product. Like it or not, they are selling Gib as a
>> point of departure and destination. But they're doing so, selling it to
>> their citizens.
>> Gib being British property, it should be the British Gov. you should be
>> questioning, not a business entity like Iberia.
>
> GoG should have denied the licence until such time as Iberia towed the
> line, and if it meant not flying to Gib, then so be it. AFAIC
Who to blame then? Perhaps no one. In negotiations, you give and take. And
let's face it, I reiterate, Gib's gaining from this project, no doubt.
>> Portugal was a sovereign monarchical country when a rabs still called
>> Gibel-Tarik home-sweet-home. There is no comparison between Gib and
>> Portugal, none. Anyone who claims that Gib's not connected to Spain
>> geographically and historically, is in a state of factual historical
>> denial.
>
> Connected to it yes as you say but NOT within it. To say Gib is within
> Spain is to accept the Sp argument that Gib is an invasory entity within
> legitimate Sp borders.
A matter of opinion, really. I don't need conversion. I know we have our own
identity. The British have done sweet FA to disseminate this fact throughout
the ex-empire of English speaking countries. We are saddled with a situation
where we depend on the very entity which refuses to recognize our identity.
Better to do what best we can for future generations of Gibraltarians.
Perhaps those yet to be born, will not have to go yonder, but stay within
easy reach of their homeland.
Take it easy Amigo, we're rowing the same boat! :))
Lynx
>
>> What's the cost of annual car rego for a normal sedan.
>
> Mine varies with the ervice - minor, intermediate + major. No idea as car
> uner 3 yrs old and forst 3 yrs servoce included in sale price, though am
> led to understand max price around £220. If OTOH you drive a "prestige"
> brand i.e. get fleeced at every opportunity, you may be apying over £1k
> for a change of plugs and oil.
We're on the same planet.
Lynx
>
> The talk is of a road tunned at the eastern end of the runway, with the
> crossing point diverted there. Where the pedestrian tunnel would be
> located not sure, perhaps where the crossing is now but underground
> obviously.
Tapping the 'O' for the 'I' key's one thing, the 'D' for 'L' is quite
another!
The eastern end makes sense, it would divert traffic from WChurchill's Ave
to eastern beach.
Lynx
Warney makes it bearable. The good old days of Viv Richard-West Indies was
good too. Otherwise it becomes tedious to watch.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:6zghh.9674$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:em3ih...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> You can't stop suicides. Yes of course you can stop suicide attempts,
>>> but if a person is intent on doing so, you cannot stop him/her. The
>>> person involved has to get past your clutches once, you have to stop him
>>> every time.
>>>
>>> The same logic suggests that terrorists if sufficiently determined will
>>> cause havoc. The security forces have to foil each and every plot each
>>> and every time. in order to be successful the terrorists only needs to
>>> slip through the net once. One in a thousand, once in a million it
>>> matters not- just once will do.
>>
>> It can be a sad world.
>
> NOWHERE is it writ that life must be fair.
¿Que es la vida? Un frenesí. ¿Que es la vida? Una ilusión. (D. P. Calderón
de la Barca.1600-1681)
Life's a dream
> Not unlike anyone choosing to jump in front of a train. The only
> difference is the mode of transport, not the principal behind the mode of
> death
Yes, dear Watson
>> On a much lighter and happy tone, a friend told me the garrison Library
>> was now open to the public. Any idea on this? Have been trying to get
>> some photocopies. Hope fully I'll get them now???
>
> No idea. Never wanted anything from the place. Canot confirm nor deny.
Never mind. BTW, looks like Darius' been done by Alexander the Great... :-)
Jim Watt
Ah so you don't want to know that in the 2001 census the
breakdown was
22,882 Gibraltarian
2,627 British
961 Moroccan
326 Spanish
275 Other EU
424 Other
------
27,495 Total
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Minie was more informative, but his was much funnier. You have to give him
that!
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
I know! We all do it from time to time, the greatest problem being
transposition of the correct letters. Once you start including incorrect
letters it's another matter. Thing is, I read before I send at it looks OK,
then I read it again once it appears on the server at it's full of errors! I
look at my "sent messages" and the errors were all mine - I just couldn't
see them first time around!
This one was spell-checked.
"I halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea-sea
It clearly marques four my revue
Missed ached four me two sea!"
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Now, that's the calibre expected from this ng. Excellent. Interesting
breakdown. Puts a clearer perspective on things. Tks!
Lynx
A reminder that the Ashes didn't last long in Pomies' grip is enough to send
him packing! :-)
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
> news:vCohh.9854$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:em4i5...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> The talk is of a road tunned at the eastern end of the runway, with the
>>> crossing point diverted there. Where the pedestrian tunnel would be
>>> located not sure, perhaps where the crossing is now but underground
>>> obviously.
>>
>> Tapping the 'O' for the 'I' key's one thing, the 'D' for 'L' is quite
>> another!
>> The eastern end makes sense, it would divert traffic from WChurchill's
>> Ave to eastern beach.
>
> I know! We all do it from time to time, the greatest problem being
> transposition of the correct letters. Once you start including incorrect
> letters it's another matter. Thing is, I read before I send at it looks
> OK, then I read it again once it appears on the server at it's full of
> errors! I look at my "sent messages" and the errors were all mine - I just
> couldn't see them first time around!
I suppose you meant to say 'and' not 'at'. You think you're writing
prescriptions, don't ya?! Staying clear of the gin, might help focusing on
the grammar. I know, I've tried it. And it works! Nothing beats a long, ice
filled glass, with a generous pour or gin and topped up with tonic, a
squeeze of lime, and watch the Pommies get pulverized! Hee hee hee!
> This one was spell-checked.
>
> "I halve a spelling chequer
> It came with my pea-sea
> It clearly marques four my revue
> Missed ached four me two sea!"
Understandably so, these programs are all made in us. Hopeless English they
speak there and all!
Heard the one about the old timer who chatted with a young chick in a bar.
She declared herself a lesbian. Told him about her inclinations and the
things she enjoyed. The old timer piped up, "I too am a lesbian".
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em5or...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> news:vCohh.9854$HU....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:em4i5...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> The talk is of a road tunned at the eastern end of the runway, with the
>>>> crossing point diverted there. Where the pedestrian tunnel would be
>>>> located not sure, perhaps where the crossing is now but underground
>>>> obviously.
>>>
>>> Tapping the 'O' for the 'I' key's one thing, the 'D' for 'L' is quite
>>> another!
>>> The eastern end makes sense, it would divert traffic from WChurchill's
>>> Ave to eastern beach.
Where a road would end up is of some importance of course for a number of
factors. Where the pedestrian access leads is far more important still. The
walk from the Gib point of entry to the town centre is a pleasant 15 min
walk (in good weather) and the centre of La Linea is closer still to their
Checkpoint Charlie. If however the pedestrian crossing is taken to the
eastern border of the isthmus together with the vehicular traffic, walking
from Gib town centre to La Linea town centre becomes more of an expedition.
I'm not sugesting it can't be done, but what was a pleasant walk can become
a burdensome one, in effect a walk to eastern beach and then across the
isthus again, each way. The effect is that people would use vehicular access
more, and walk less. The bus operators would love this of course and with
good reason, and taxi drivers would also make a bit more income on both
sides. However many daily workers coming to Gib from La Linea who currently
park their mopeds at La Linea and walk the rest of the way would then wish
to drive into Gib. That would greatly increase vehicular traffic in Gib and
further blight the already over-pressured parking problems that exist.
>
>> This one was spell-checked.
>>
>> "I halve a spelling chequer
>> It came with my pea-sea
>> It clearly marques four my revue
>> Missed ached four me two sea!"
>
> Understandably so, these programs are all made in us. Hopeless English
> they speak there and all!
>
> Heard the one about the old timer who chatted with a young chick in a bar.
> She declared herself a lesbian. Told him about her inclinations and the
> things she enjoyed. The old timer piped up, "I too am a lesbian".
Indeed he was, as am I, trapped in a man's body! :))
As to cricket, my favourite form is to sit out on a balmy evening and listen
to them chirping. Did you ever keep any grillos? Grapes and tomatoes as I
recall were their favourite food (or at least so we all believed) and it
didn't half stink!
K
Lynx
>
> Where a road would end up is of some importance of course for a number of
> factors. Where the pedestrian access leads is far more important still.
> The walk from the Gib point of entry to the town centre is a pleasant 15
> min walk (in good weather) and the centre of La Linea is closer still to
> their Checkpoint Charlie. If however the pedestrian crossing is taken to
> the eastern border of the isthmus together with the vehicular traffic,
> walking from Gib town centre to La Linea town centre becomes more of an
> expedition. I'm not sugesting it can't be done, but what was a pleasant
> walk can become a burdensome one, in effect a walk to eastern beach and
> then across the isthus again, each way. The effect is that people would
> use vehicular access more, and walk less. The bus operators would love
> this of course and with good reason, and taxi drivers would also make a
> bit more income on both sides. However many daily workers coming to Gib
> from La Linea who currently park their mopeds at La Linea and walk the
> rest of the way would then wish to drive into Gib. That would greatly
> increase vehicular traffic in Gib and further blight the already
> over-pressured parking problems that exist.
True. It just occured to me, if this proposed tunnel should become the sole
access to/from Spain, I sincerely hope that this will not result in an ugly
wire fence running adjacent to the sports stadium. Great care should be
taken in not giving Gib another feature of "enclosure". We've had enough of
that!
snip
>....."I too am a lesbian".
> Indeed he was, as am I, trapped in a man's body! :))
Yes, quite a prevalent condition, if I say so myself.
An older Aussie work mate, who's got a sense of humour and also trying to
pull one over you, told me in a jokingly despotic way, "you need a haircut".
Looking at his somewhat exposed top, I said, "yes, I do, it's an affliction
which often affects those with hair". He cracked up laughing.
> As to cricket, my favourite form is to sit out on a balmy evening and
> listen to them chirping. Did you ever keep any grillos? Grapes and
> tomatoes as I recall were their favourite food (or at least so we all
> believed) and it didn't half stink!
No, I kept silkworms. Though I wouldn't kill and ant, I have a general
adversity to insects and the likes. My bro used to go to the "Palace" just
outside the Grammar School, in the evenings with a bunch of mates (they
weren't much bigger than the crickets themselves) and come back home with a
box full of the critters. He'd be given his orders, "straight into the
terrace with them!" We wouldn't sleep much for the next week or so.
Arengo's Palace?
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:em6ad...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> Where a road would end up is of some importance of course for a number of
>> factors. Where the pedestrian access leads is far more important still.
>> The walk from the Gib point of entry to the town centre is a pleasant 15
>> min walk (in good weather) and the centre of La Linea is closer still to
>> their Checkpoint Charlie. If however the pedestrian crossing is taken to
>> the eastern border of the isthmus together with the vehicular traffic,
>> walking from Gib town centre to La Linea town centre becomes more of an
>> expedition. I'm not sugesting it can't be done, but what was a pleasant
>> walk can become a burdensome one, in effect a walk to eastern beach and
>> then across the isthus again, each way. The effect is that people would
>> use vehicular access more, and walk less. The bus operators would love
>> this of course and with good reason, and taxi drivers would also make a
>> bit more income on both sides. However many daily workers coming to Gib
>> from La Linea who currently park their mopeds at La Linea and walk the
>> rest of the way would then wish to drive into Gib. That would greatly
>> increase vehicular traffic in Gib and further blight the already
>> over-pressured parking problems that exist.
>
> True. It just occured to me, if this proposed tunnel should become the
> sole access to/from Spain, I sincerely hope that this will not result in
> an ugly wire fence running adjacent to the sports stadium. Great care
> should be taken in not giving Gib another feature of "enclosure". We've
> had enough of that!
Unfortunately, and for very good reasons, there is already a significant
fence near the stadium. It is necessary to keep balls off the runway.
> An older Aussie work mate, who's got a sense of humour and also trying to
> pull one over you, told me in a jokingly despotic way, "you need a
> haircut". Looking at his somewhat exposed top, I said, "yes, I do, it's an
> affliction which often affects those with hair". He cracked up laughing.
Depite an ability still to grow the stuff, I find I am most comfortable when
I have it severely trimmed to the extent it can't be combed. At about 0.375"
length, you can feel the "nap of the cloth" as you pass your hand over it.
Also minimal drying time after washing. Easily circumvented problem is that
the scalp can burn easily when on a sunny holiday, but you in Oz know more
about covering up against the dreaded rays than most.
>
>> As to cricket, my favourite form is to sit out on a balmy evening and
>> listen to them chirping. Did you ever keep any grillos? Grapes and
>> tomatoes as I recall were their favourite food (or at least so we all
>> believed) and it didn't half stink!
>
> No, I kept silkworms. Though I wouldn't kill and ant, I have a general
> adversity to insects and the likes. My bro used to go to the "Palace" just
> outside the Grammar School, in the evenings with a bunch of mates (they
> weren't much bigger than the crickets themselves) and come back home with
> a box full of the critters. He'd be given his orders, "straight into the
> terrace with them!" We wouldn't sleep much for the next week or so.
> Arengo's Palace?
Now flattened in favour of habitable buildings. Not much of a palace really,
just an old derelict building.
I could just pick them up off the ground when I was not much more than knee
high to a grasshopper. On a warm evening, armed with a torch, they were easy
pray around Tankerville, backing onto the Rock itself almost. I too had
strict instructions as to where they could be kept, which read "nowhere near
anyone or anything else"!
K
K
Jim Watt
>> Minie was more informative, but his was much funnier. You have to give him
>> that!
>
>A reminder that the Ashes didn't last long in Pomies' grip is enough to send
>him packing! :-)
Ah but I'm a Gibraltarian so ashes are irrelevent.
BTW did you know they are building a crematorium?
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
I heard about this. About time too! When and where?
Hint - watch the environmentalists get all hot under the collar (ahem!)
talking temperatures and dioxins.
K
Lynx
>
> Unfortunately, and for very good reasons, there is already a significant
> fence near the stadium. It is necessary to keep balls off the runway.
That's fair enought too. I meant a fenceline which would bring the
continuation of WC's Ave to an abrupt end at what is now the first runway
boom-gate.
> Depite an ability still to grow the stuff, I find I am most comfortable
> when I have it severely trimmed to the extent it can't be combed. At about
> 0.375" length, you can feel the "nap of the cloth" as you pass your hand
> over it. Also minimal drying time after washing. Easily circumvented
> problem is that the scalp can burn easily when on a sunny holiday, but you
> in Oz know more about covering up against the dreaded rays than most.
Yes we do cover up from those merciless rays. Above us we have a very thin
ozone layer, which means that the sun we get is not as filtered as that in
Gib. Hence you'd burn here in 10mins flat, while in Gib you tned to bronze
gradually. Also the weather down here can vary considerably. But we get
sunshine just about everyday.
>> Arengo's Palace?
>
> Now flattened in favour of habitable buildings. Not much of a palace
> really, just an old derelict building.
I was still there when they built the new RGP barracks. As for the remains
of the 'Palace', I do recall seeing derelict standing statues and what
seemed like a large fountain or swimming pool, as well as columns enclosing
the area. Must've been something in its days.
> I could just pick them up off the ground when I was not much more than
> knee high to a grasshopper. On a warm evening, armed with a torch, they
> were easy pray around Tankerville, backing onto the Rock itself almost. I
> too had strict instructions as to where they could be kept, which read
> "nowhere near anyone or anything else"!
Tankerville? I had friends living in those blocks. I was always facinated by
what we called the magazine. A large tall, square structure which I never
discovered the entry to. I always thought, back then, that it must've been
built by the Brits. But looking at old maps of Gib, circa 1600, the same
building is mapped out!
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
So you are. But don't tell me you have forsaken your motherland! Anyway
Jani, time to test you. What's a TANA?
Lynx
The Hindu residents in Gib used to hold their open air cremations at what
was then called El Quemadero, situated at the southernmost tip of eastern
beach. Must've done wonder for the Catalan Bay fishermen. Smoked Herrings?
:))
Jim Watt
> Ah but I'm a Gibraltarian so ashes are irrelevent.
>>
>> BTW did you know they are building a crematorium?
>
>So you are. But don't tell me you have forsaken your motherland! Anyway
>Jani, time to test you. What's a TANA?
You may be aware of the 'Tebbit cricket test' it
seems we both pass on that. He was here recently
very down to earth thinking guy.
I'm not telling about my tanita, its secret.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
You're right. I have no idea about Tebbit.... I have heard of a mummy's boy
seeking home in Gib. Is he generally welcomed or perceived as a potential
problem/embarrassment?
If it is your tanita, I should not be expected to ask you about it. 10/10.
Something very sudden happens during play games/sports when a participant
exclaims,"PURISH!" I wonder if you know what this exclamation can bring on,
even when a game/sport may be at its most crucial stages. We are talking
about home games/sports, not professional stuff. I have yet to find the
etymology of this word.
Jim Watt
>You're right. I have no idea about Tebbit....
Tebbit was interesting. His wife who had her back
broken in the Brighton bombing came too and put the
facilities fr the disabled to the test. She found
the Elliot hotle wonderful. Very cheerful lady
despite everything.
The 'Cricket test' says that people have gone native
when they support the local team over say pakistan if
they are from there.
I think the other guy is only looking at Gib for tax
purposes and actually lives in Spain.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>> knee high to a grasshopper. On a warm evening, armed with a torch, they
>> were easy pray around Tankerville, backing onto the Rock itself almost. I
>> too had strict instructions as to where they could be kept, which read
>> "nowhere near anyone or anything else"!
>
> Tankerville? I had friends living in those blocks. I was always facinated
> by what we called the magazine. A large tall, square structure which I
> never discovered the entry to. I always thought, back then, that it
> must've been built by the Brits. But looking at old maps of Gib, circa
> 1600, the same building is mapped out!
I reacll the building, and understood it to be part of the original wall
built by the Moors around 1100AD, part of the fortification of which the
Tower of Homage and Gates of Granada form a part. I too never saw an
entrance to it, which makes no sense of it was an arms store. I was standing
always on the south side of the building, which would have been inside the
citadel. If there was no entrance on the south, west and eastern walls (the
boundary fortification wall being continuous with the northern wall of the
building) it follows the opening must have been on the outer wall, the
northern wall. Stupid place to have access to yours arms cache, outside your
perimiter!
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:00:31 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
>
>>You're right. I have no idea about Tebbit....
>
> Tebbit was interesting. His wife who had her back
> broken in the Brighton bombing came too and put the
> facilities fr the disabled to the test. She found
> the Elliot hotle wonderful. Very cheerful lady
> despite everything.
Got it
> The 'Cricket test' says that people have gone native
> when they support the local team over say pakistan if
> they are from there.
I was surprised to read that the pommy supporters, on arriving in Perth and
not finding a good curry restaurant, opted to place an order for ready to
eat curry from a restaurant in the UK. On arrival in Oz the food would have
been quarantined and destroyed. The point is, who are, and where are these
natives you refer to?
> I think the other guy is only looking at Gib for tax
> purposes and actually lives in Spain.
Makes sense, he's giving Gib a bad name without even living there!
Lynx
I beg to differ. The south side of the wall would place you outside the
citadel. The citadel being enclosed, to the east by the tower of homage and
the natural protection from the rock climb. To the north by the fortified
walls running down from the tower of hommage. To the south, the very wall
you mention. To the east the sheer drop and wall which devided it from La
Barcina (today's Casemates). Landport being where their shops docked. Next
time you head to town via landport, check to your left before crossing the
drawbridge. You'll notice some openings on the opposite wall, these light
the passage to what was the moorings. There is a funny anecdote about this
bridge in "the book".
I think the square building must have been a magazine or store of some sort.
It is so tall it has a lightning rod atop.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> news:6k9go2th6lrb9n9es...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:00:31 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote:
> I was surprised to read that the pommy supporters, on arriving in Perth
> and not finding a good curry restaurant, opted to place an order for ready
> to eat curry from a restaurant in the UK. On arrival in Oz the food would
> have been quarantined and destroyed. The point is, who are, and where are
> these natives you refer to?
It is hard to believe that in a city the size of Perth one cannot find a
good curry! More likely, the curries available were not to their liking.
Remember that in matters such as these, it's not a question of knowing what
you like, but rather liking what you know.
In any case such has been the influence of Indian / Pakistan / Bangladesh
cuisine in the UK and doubtless adapted to appeal to the local palate that
moved a cabinet minister to state that Britain's national dish had moved
from roast beef + 2 veg to a chicken tikka masala - and he said so without
sense of irony, and frankly probably right.
Additionally there are sectors in society for who going out for a curry is a
bonding experience. Certainly a curry tests one manliness (in certain
sectors) by the ability ro hold down 1) a large quantity of it and 2) a
particualrly hot variety of it, so that the alpha male becomes he who can
hold down the largest quantity of vindaloo (as in the football chant song,
you may recall) after of course having consumed crop-spraying quantities of
lager.
This was parodied (or in Gib's case, Parody) by a comedy show known as The
Kumars at 42 (42 being the street number of their house). In the sketch in
question, a number of Indian youths are seen stacking up the bravado. First
they start telling each other how many pints of lager they are going to
drink, followed by how much bland food they are to consume. The blander the
better of course, and get into claiming to have eated the greatest number
ofYorkshire Puddings etc. etc.
Order a curry from the UK? Just a stunt. Even if allowed past Oz customs,
hardly in a fit state to eat after 24 hrs in a 'plane overhead locker!
K
Lynx
>
> It is hard to believe that in a city the size of Perth one cannot find a
> good curry! More likely, the curries available were not to their liking.
> Remember that in matters such as these, it's not a question of knowing
> what you like, but rather liking what you know.
I'd be the last person to give any city a bad name. Perth is an immaculately
kept city, the centre that is. As for restaurants, I have not been to all
restaurants. But being a "curry afisionado" I ventured to a Malaysian
restaurant on my last visit, asked for two Beef Rendang. When it was
eventaully served, I looked at it, and advised my lady friend not to touch
it till I had tasted mine. The beef was still "chilled" in the centre and
the sauce was just as crappy. Perth, on it's restaurants, gets a big fat
zero from moi! It's freeways, heaven help you if you should miss a turn.
You're forced to drive halfway around WA before you can make a u-turn! They
do have beautiful beaches. And Asian visitors help their economy to no end.
Perth has a lot going for it, but it'll be a few centuries before it comes
anywhere near Melbourne or Sydney.
> In any case such has been the influence of Indian / Pakistan / Bangladesh
> cuisine in the UK and doubtless adapted to appeal to the local palate that
> moved a cabinet minister to state that Britain's national dish had moved
> from roast beef + 2 veg to a chicken tikka masala - and he said so without
> sense of irony, and frankly probably right.
I agree that the curries we know today to be Indian dishes are indeed most
palatable. But beware. Vindaloo, perhaps one of India's most famous, if not
the most famous curry, is in fact of Portuguese origin. The Potuguese, later
the Dutch and finally the Brits, colonized most of the "spicy" costline of
India. Battles were faught to control the east-west spice commerce.
> Additionally there are sectors in society for who going out for a curry is
> a bonding experience. Certainly a curry tests one manliness (in certain
> sectors) by the ability ro hold down 1) a large quantity of it and 2) a
> particualrly hot variety of it, so that the alpha male becomes he who can
> hold down the largest quantity of vindaloo (as in the football chant song,
> you may recall) after of course having consumed crop-spraying quantities
> of lager.
Amongst some, as you say. My favourite happens to be Vindaloo, and it does
make one perspire! But golly, it goes down so well with a chilled beer, dry
sparkling wine or even, shoiuld I dare? A gin and tonic!
> Order a curry from the UK? Just a stunt. Even if allowed past Oz customs,
> hardly in a fit state to eat after 24 hrs in a 'plane overhead locker!
It's true, the order was placed, and our Quarantine soon made it known where
the curry would end up!
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:embtn...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> It is hard to believe that in a city the size of Perth one cannot find a
>> good curry! More likely, the curries available were not to their liking.
>> Remember that in matters such as these, it's not a question of knowing
>> what you like, but rather liking what you know.
>
> I'd be the last person to give any city a bad name. Perth is an
> immaculately kept city, the centre that is. As for restaurants, I have not
> been to all restaurants. But being a "curry afisionado" I ventured to a
> Malaysian restaurant on my last visit, asked for two Beef Rendang. When it
> was eventaully served, I looked at it, and advised my lady friend not to
> touch it till I had tasted mine. The beef was still "chilled" in the
> centre and the sauce was just as crappy. Perth, on it's restaurants, gets
> a big fat zero from moi! It's freeways, heaven help you if you should miss
> a turn. You're forced to drive halfway around WA before you can make a
> u-turn! They do have beautiful beaches. And Asian visitors help their
> economy to no end. Perth has a lot going for it, but it'll be a few
> centuries before it comes anywhere near Melbourne or Sydney.
Do I detect an east-west divide?
>
>> In any case such has been the influence of Indian / Pakistan / Bangladesh
>> cuisine in the UK and doubtless adapted to appeal to the local palate
>> that moved a cabinet minister to state that Britain's national dish had
>> moved from roast beef + 2 veg to a chicken tikka masala - and he said so
>> without sense of irony, and frankly probably right.
>
> I agree that the curries we know today to be Indian dishes are indeed most
> palatable. But beware. Vindaloo, perhaps one of India's most famous, if
> not the most famous curry, is in fact of Portuguese origin. The Potuguese,
> later the Dutch and finally the Brits, colonized most of the "spicy"
> costline of India. Battles were faught to control the east-west spice
> commerce.
>
>> Additionally there are sectors in society for who going out for a curry
>> is a bonding experience. Certainly a curry tests one manliness (in
>> certain sectors) by the ability ro hold down 1) a large quantity of it
>> and 2) a particualrly hot variety of it, so that the alpha male becomes
>> he who can hold down the largest quantity of vindaloo (as in the football
>> chant song, you may recall) after of course having consumed crop-spraying
>> quantities of lager.
>
> Amongst some, as you say. My favourite happens to be Vindaloo, and it does
> make one perspire! But golly, it goes down so well with a chilled beer,
> dry sparkling wine or even, shoiuld I dare? A gin and tonic!
I can eat a Vindaloo, but I prefer something softer that lets me taste the
underlying ingredients.
K
Lynx
>
snip
>
> Do I detect an east-west divide?
Of sorts, though the real devide's between Mel and Syd. Al the other capital
cities are more or less considered regional township :)
> I can eat a Vindaloo, but I prefer something softer that lets me taste the
> underlying ingredients.
Agreed, but therein lies the secret of preparing a vindaloo, one doesn't
have to make it so hot that you loose sense of taste. It helps if you have a
side-dish with chutney, cucumber or pineapple. They all assist in refreshing
the palate.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
. . . if it's not so hot, then it's not a Vindaloo? It may have become a
Madras?
A Vindaloo without the inferno is like garlic without the smell, lemon
that's not bitter, nectar that's not sweet. A poet could do something with
this, but not I.
K
Lynx
> . . . if it's not so hot, then it's not a Vindaloo? It may have become a
> Madras?
Nope.
> A Vindaloo without the inferno is like garlic without the smell, lemon
> that's not bitter, nectar that's not sweet. A poet could do something with
> this, but not I.
Granted, it must be hot. Only that one can actually control the amount of
chilli, sambal, call it what you will, so it's not a fire hazard. But, as
you well say, it must be hot.
Did you know lemongrass is used by some S.E. Asian cultures to prevent
animal blood, when preparing certain dishes, from coagulating? Hence, it is
thought it can assist in thinning blood and preventing blood-clots.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
We still use heparin (and its derivatives) and warfarin. The first occurs
normally within h8uman tissue, the secons was developed as a rat poison and
remains very safe when used judiciously. There was a new substance bandied
about which held much promise but it fell foul of side effects in other
systems. AFAIK there's nothing new on the horizon in this regard. There are
many substances which can be used "in vitro" to prevent blood clotting, and
they may be useful "in victus", but that's a far cry from safety "in vivo".
K
Lynx
>
snip
> We still use heparin (and its derivatives) and warfarin. The first occurs
> normally within h8uman tissue, the secons was developed as a rat poison
> and remains very safe when used judiciously. There was a new substance
> bandied about which held much promise but it fell foul of side effects in
> other systems. AFAIK there's nothing new on the horizon in this regard.
> There are many substances which can be used "in vitro" to prevent blood
> clotting, and they may be useful "in victus", but that's a far cry from
> safety "in vivo".
Chuckle......Excellent, good old Gibbo sense of humour lives! :))
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@Home.com> wrote in message
Glad to have someone who can appreciate it.
K
>