Two sides of the coin
Lynx
be anti-Spanish. But then, to be anti anyone, it would need for one to have
had a close relationship of some sort with that entity. Otherwise, how do
you hate that which has had little negative impact on your life?
There's nothing worse than an ex-smoker.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:4LUAe.38705$oJ.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
TWO ex-smokers? Anyway, giving up smoking's easy. I have never smoked so
can't give it up, but people I know who have tell me it's so easy, they give
up often.
And no. To get on in this group it helps to form reasoned argument. You can
be anti-Spanish if you like, you can be pro-Spanish if you prefer. Whatever
stance you take, expect an argument- but that's what this group is here for.
I am neither pro- nor anti-Spanish. What I am is pro-Gibraltar and
pro-Gibraltarian.
Ken
Jim Watt
wrote:
I'm with Ken, I tried smoking as a teenager and didn't like
it. I'm glad about that.
This is alt.gibraltar which exists FOR Gibraltar, its not
'anti-spanish' but many of us are against the petty persecution of
Gibraltar by Spain.
For instance the journalist who asked Peter Caruana that now we
are 'getting on better' with Spain would we withdraw our bid to join
the International Olympic movement as it offended them.
And I am still waiting to hear why my mobile phone does not
work across the border but would in Australia.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Lynx
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:db17bn$n7i$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
I take note of your stance. My gun's cocked, hope the powder goes rancid
before I have to use it. Rancid? Sounds like I'm talking about cheeses.
Cheese and wine, now there's a combination for those who do not enjoy their
wine.
How's our world class wines doing in your neck of the woods, then?
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:8sf8d15i3on2mnkah...@4ax.com...
Well, I'm with you both, I never liked smoking, and was never reaaly a
smoker.
Are there any associations or clubs which encourage interaction between
gibraltarians and spaniards? A coffee club or book club comes to mind. Is
there any desire amongst your average man/woman about town, on both sides of
the devide, to come together and discuss their differences and what common
interests? Is there any sense of problem solving amongst the people?
The Olympics? What could Gib do against the worlds great sporting nations?
Of course, that's not to say there aren't world class sportsmen and women in
Gib. But wouldn't this be more the exception than the rule? At any rate,
Gib's status is that of a colony. It stands to reason then, that Gib's
sportsmen/women would participate under British patronage. At the last
Commonwealth Games I managed to see the Gib flag and its bearer, a young
woman, I recall. At the last Edinborough Tattoo, everyone got a glimpse of 3
gibraltarian guards, again bearing the Castle and Key flag.
To see the Pacific Islanders, Asian, Scots, etc. giving a demonstration of
their cultural songs and dances, drum beat, etc. is all entertaining. They
are saying, this is us, who we are. What does Gib do? Flops at the
Commonwealth games and carry the flag at the Tattoo. Well, anyone can do
both and it doesn't call on any identity or culture.
Saccarello's coffee house ,ight be a good venue for holding "tri-partite"
common folks talks. Why not?
DCC
You could have fooled me and lots of others.
Then again it's obvious that your 50%+ non verbal communication is dearly
miss to confirm what you claim for yourself. Webcams are going dead cheap
these days.
You regularly come across not as Pro-The Rock, but rather very Anti-Sp.
You even have difficulty in write the word Spain or Spaniards.
Reminds me of the silliness of Spanish weather forecasters who never say El
Estrecho de Gibraltar, but simply 'el estrecho'. But whenever they are
referring to other geographical areas, they are more specific. I guess they
would either want the rock back before they use the full name or alternative
call it 'el Estrecho del Peregil' or something.
Spain has got an 'institutionalized' anti-Gib mentality. I believe Gib
(despite all that they have done to us) does not have the reverse. Your
contributions to this group regularly counter that!
.
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:db17bn$n7i$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I am neither pro- nor anti-Spanish. What I am is pro-Gibraltar and
> pro-Gibraltarian.
>
> Ken
>
Jim Watt
> Is there any sense of problem solving amongst the people?
There are no real issues between the peoples, its just the years of
propaganda by the Spanish Government that need to be un-done
along with the mindset that continues with petty persecution.
The Bay Bucket Brigade is a very good example of co-operation
against a common enemy,
>The Olympics? What could Gib do against the worlds great sporting nations?
Beat them.
OK we are not going to produce world class runners, however in
shooting where our people compete in events using olympic
specification ranges and competitions and the results are
directly comparative they stand an excellent chance.
If we can compete its nonsense that we should be restricted
from doing so because someone in Madrid is upset about
their countiries military incompetence 300 years ago.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
I am all for Gib's international recognition. But somehow, I feel, the
situation should be primarily addressed at local level. That is, Gib should
initially gain self determination, then worry or lobby for international
recognition in sports etc. Looks like we're doing things A about.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> currently whzts the problem? I doubt that many would have
> any objection to Gibraltar joining except for the lobbying
> against us by the Government of the Kingdom of Spain
>
> or sp as Ken might say.
So much emphasis on sports. Is everyone becoming a weekend numskull? Gib's
presence at the C'W games as in the Tattoo was negligent. These spheres of
participation are substandard compared to what's at stake.
sp for Spain is but a show of hate, anti-Spanish or ignorance. So long as
you engender this kind of attitude, this group will never grow nor become an
interesting tertulians' corner.
Jim Watt
>sp for Spain is but a show of hate, anti-Spanish or ignorance
your perception is flawed.
>So long as you engender this kind of attitude, this group will never grow nor become an
>interesting tertulians' corner.
I'm not sure if that was the idea of starting it.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
I'll enrich your vocabulary then. Tertulian is one who partakes in an
overall discussion. This group has much to offer, but unfortunately, it
seems not to attract the voice of other local gibraltarians. From this one
can only deduce that internet is not for the majority in Gib, or much of
what's discussed here is like water off a duck's back to the locals. How are
those queues going?
Jim Watt
If we can get acceprance into international sporting bodies
currently whzts the problem? I doubt that many would have
any objection to Gibraltar joining except for the lobbying
against us by the Government of the Kingdom of Spain
or sp as Ken might say.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Sport is one of many things that never gripped my attention. However I can
appreciate that Gib participating in sporting events is a good thing for Gib
because of the amount of exposure one would get internationally, there
being no such thing as bad publicity.
It appears my abbreviation of Spain to Sp is not approved of. How come
no-one has mentioned my use of Eng when I mean England or Gib when I mean
Gibraltar?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Personally, great. I buy little else than Australian and NZ. Thanks to
science, the mystery has been taken out of the system as preferred by the
French, so that any bottle of Woolabra Wonga is as good as any other bottle
of the same. Once you find the stuff you like, stick to it. The one thing I
cannot stand though is the "trick" of oaking white wine by placing loads of
oak shavings in the cask, increasing the surface area of wood exposed to
wine and making it seem older than it is. While the taste is superb, the
process must release some substances into the wine that do not appear by the
traditional method, and gives me the mother of all headaches. Therefore I
avoid oaked wines.
K
Ken
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:db25is$bfk$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
> Well there you go! One learns something new every day.
> You could have fooled me and lots of others.
You once accused me of writing in a seemingly authoritative manner. It
appears you are doing similarly here. Unless you ahve been conducting a poll
of contributors here, to see if they feel fooled.
> Then again it's obvious that your 50%+ non verbal communication is dearly
> miss to confirm what you claim for yourself. Webcams are going dead cheap
> these days.
Indeed they are. Tell me how do you use such a webcam on a Usenet group.
> You regularly come across not as Pro-The Rock, but rather very Anti-Sp.
> You even have difficulty in write the word Spain or Spaniards.
Because I write Sp? Like I write Gib, or Giblet, or UK, or Eng or Brit?
Therfore if writing Sp makes me anti-Spanish (there, I worte it) I must also
be anti-Gibraltarian, anti-English, anti-British too.
> Reminds me of the silliness of Spanish weather forecasters who never say
> El Estrecho de Gibraltar, but simply 'el estrecho'.
They also lay "la verja" when they mean "la frontera". They also say "el
litoral" when WE mean "la orilla". They also say "los guisantes" when WE
mean "los chicharos". Who are they anyway? Why do you use "they" when you
mean "Spaniards"? Are you anti-Spanish? See, I have no need to abbreviate.
Anyway, why is abbreviate, meaning to shorten, so long? Why is the word BIG
smaller than the word SMALL?
> But whenever they are referring to other geographical areas, they are more
> specific. I guess they would either want the rock back before they use the
> full name or alternative call it 'el Estrecho del Peregil' or something.
They also refer to Gib(raltar, lest I appear biased) as "el contencioso".
They have taken to referring to the Bay of Gib(raltar) as "The Bay of The
Island"
> Spain has got an 'institutionalized' anti-Gib mentality. I believe Gib
> (despite all that they have done to us) does not have the reverse. Your
> contributions to this group regularly counter that!
It was said that an infinite number of monkeys sitting by an infinite number
of typewriters would by chance reproduce the works of Shakespeare. The
internet has so far gone a long way to disproving that hypothesis too. Heck
there's no shortage of monkeys!
Like everything else, there is a continuum. While it appears that you are in
some way fascinated by Sp(anish) culture and have some ap[preciation of it,
I frankly do not. But my uncultured nature is not limited to Spanish
tendencies. There is NO poetry AT ALL that I have ever liked. I am not
enthralled by ANY opera, not just the zarzuela. I have never liked ANY
literature, not just Lorca's. Hardy and Shakespeare leave me cold too. I
dislike Flamenco. I'm not keen on Jazz either, nor Prog Rock. The Punk era
passed me by. I DO NOT POSSESS an MP3 player nor ahve I ever purchased any
music other than as a gift for others. My car radio is tuned to Radio 4 -
all talk, no music.
You mistake my lack of appreciatin for Sp(anish) culture as a personal
distate for Spain. What you perhaps have not realised is that art plays no
appreciable part in my life at all, whence ever it came.
Ken
Lynx
I'd hate to see Gib participating in int'l sports, only to come out a loser.
You make an appearance when you're at competitive level, not just make a
political statement. Politics and sports are a dangerous cocktail.
On the question of your using Sp, or more recently sp, for Spanish or Spain
is totally uncalled for, especially given your tone of voice.
Lynx
Those oak shavings are in fact blocks of oak suspended in stainless steel
vats. But that's not to say every white is subjected to the same treatment.
Some Rieslings go through this process. It's all a case of consumer demand.
I've got a wonderful collection of reds "sleeping" like little babies. When
you come down these parts one day we'll share a bottle or two, with good
food, of course. You're right in that when you find a good wine you stick to
it. But when buying finer wines be mindful of the vintage. These can vary
the quality and depth of the same wine markedly. About the French, we sent
an expedition of wines' experts to France some years ago, to investigate and
advise the old winemakers on what they were doing wrong. It turned out their
product was becoming contaminated with bacteria. The end product the best
French vinegar on the market. The Australian wine market, in good part, owes
much to a top-team of British winemakers who came over some decades ago to
study the feasibility of developing a wine industry. The results speak for
themselves.
Lynx
Jim Watt
>'d hate to see Gib participating in int'l sports, only to come out a loser.
>You make an appearance when you're at competitive level, not just make a
>political statement. Politics and sports are a dangerous cocktail.
The shooters tell me they do it to get medals and beat everyone else,
and when their results on Olympic specification ranges exceeds that
of everyone else then they are in with a good chance of winning.
However, at present they cannot enter because someone in Madrid
believes that preventing them compete may enhance their chances
of 'recovering' Gibraltar.
In the same way 'technical experts' are discussing the 'strange and
unique' nature of Gibraltar GSM telephones and researching how
they can be made to work with the Spanish network. Their hard
work is appreciated and no doubt in another 20 years they may
find a solution.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
You make it sound like Gibraltar's under siege.
Jim Watt
You are invited to provide an alternative explanation of
why Spain refuses to use the ITU allocated Gibraltar
dialling code of 350 and GSM phones which work in around
70 countries across the world do not across the border.
Why Prince Albert gets told off for supporting Gibraltar's
bid to join the Olympic movement and why Spain takes
the United Kingdom to the European court over its
electoral procedures.
luc...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>and why Spain takes
>the United Kingdom to the European court over its
>electoral procedures.
Everybody takes the UK to the European Court.
It's a national sport amongst the Frog and Dago types of this world.
Old Nick.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
That I may have missed the Shift key and used a lower case rather than
capital S is rather a flimsy arguemnt on which to base your thesis of my
prejudice!
As to the sport issue, perhaps because they frankly interest me not at all,
I was under the impression that the taking part was more important than
winning. Obviously had I kept up with what sport has apparently become I
would have been dispelled of my naivety long ago.
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
There are times, my dear friend, when an economy of words says far far more
than any eloquent discourse ever could. It is a gift I have never mastered,
as all here will attest. I take off my hat to you. In one word you have
responded with a completeness that would be hard to emulate. Thing is, I can
even imagine the look on your face (and I don't even know what you look
like!) when you say it!
Ken
Jim Watt
wrote:
Please cite another case the, as its very rare for one state
to take another state to court ...
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Taking off my British hat: Going on legalities and illegalities, and how
British Gibraltar came about. It looks like Spain's stance is one where
Gibraltar, technically, is a British colony. Subject to British sovereignty
and rule. Thus technically the gibraltarians are denied any form of
independent sovereignty. With Britain's insistence on using Gibraltar as a
bargaining chip whenever it suits them, only giving credence to the Spanish
position.
The British government, always so akin to Janus, of whichever persuasion,
has always been like Damocles' Sword over gibraltarians heads.
Lynx
We're arguing over nothing really. If Gib has the competitive edge, then it
should be allowed to compete. My point was that sports shouldn't be used as
a political platform. Granted that sports these days is anything but. None
the less, Gib's stature deserves better, and not necessarily thanks to
non-gibraltarians.
Lynx
Ha ha ha !! The old Llanito sense of humour lives!!
DCC
went astray in Cyberspace. Oh well...here it goes again!
zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz!!!
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:D8CBe.48782$oJ.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Lynx
zzzzZZZZZZzzzzz away, really!
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:db6ura$q2$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
DCC
I still recall reciting Llanto by Lorca at a school event, but I also recall
helping out with Henry V for the same school. I thoroughly enjoy the last
night at the Proms at the RAH and also vividly recall watching an Antologia
at the Teatro de la Zarzuela. Although I must admit I don't really go for
Zarzuela or or higher grade opera. I am no lover of ballet either, but
recently we had The Royal Ballet here for two days and (as my elder girl was
pick to perform with them) I had to go...proud dad that I am. They did Swan
Lake. I had a visitor from Tibet saying with us, who we took along. And
knowing that ballet can be a bore, I told him in my 'broken sign language
Tibetan' that we could leave anytime...after my girl had finish her part....
of course. We did not! We sat through all three hours if it. It felt short.
Singapore is investing big bucks in promoting and stimulating the arts
because society does not live of talk radio alone. WHAT a bore it would be
if we all did. Y encima sin pata negra, tio!
I am over the moon that today I can listen to Radio4 with digital clarity.
And I do...everyday. But I also cannot go without my Parky on Sunday (Radio2
11am UK time).
I bought my first MP3 player long ago (Creative of course...Made in
Singapore) when Apple were still dreaming about their iPOD.
Talking of POD. BBC's PODcast trials are on and it's great. I download
things like the 8.10am Today programme interview (Radio 4 claro) onto my
palm and listen to it later in the serene comfort of my loo. How about doing
the GBC News on POD James?
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:brEBe.48895$oJ.4...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
luc...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>>Everybody takes the UK to the European Court.
>>It's a national sport amongst the Frog and Dago types of this world.
>
>Please cite another case the, as its very rare for one state
>to take another state to court ...
2005. www.eupoliticstoday.com/archive.php?section=inside
(in this case Spain is the intervener as you know)
2004. www.bellona.no/en/energy/nuclear/sellafield/35152.html
(in this case Ireland was the intervener)
2002. http://www.lawreports.co.uk/ecjnovc0.2.htm
(here it was Holland)
1991. www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/UKCOD.HTM
(here it was Spain again)
That's just a few extracted at random, from a list of many more
provided by Google.
HTH
Nick.
Jim Watt
wrote:
Still looks fairly infrequent and two of the cites were for the
same case. In the case of dumpling plutonium into the
Irish sea and the Bermuda agreement and fishing the other
state is directly affected. In relation to who votes in
the United kingdom elections, its down to sheer spite
by Spain because they are upset that Gibraltar participated.
Jim Watt
> How about doing the GBC News on POD James?
I'm against things 'apple' and time and resources are
at a premium.
I'd rather develop gibnews.net a bit.
luc...@eternal-flames.gov
wrote:
>Still looks fairly infrequent and two of the cites were for the
>same case.
You asked me to cite another case - presumably singular.
I cited more than one - as I say chosen at random - from many.
There have also been cases where the UK has won:
Such as the case brought by the UK over the beef ban in France.
Additionally your statement was:
>its very rare for one state to take another state to court ...
That is also not correct. Whilst the references I cited were in
respect of cases involving the UK. You can find many such cases
involving disputes between other member states.
Example of this, would be the many and various disputes amongst
states, over national government subsidies to industries within their
own countries, contravening treaties.
One of the reasons for that, being because European Law is treaty law.
Treaties are sometimes subject to different interpretation in
individual states. Where that occurs, you need an ultimate
arbitrator, which is the function of the European Court.
It is not like national courts of law, where the court chairs the
dispute between litigants, or between prosecution and defendant,
whilst a jury decides who was right, or on guilt.
In the European Court, all it has to rule on is whether a treaty has
been breached.
>its down to sheer spite
>by Spain because they are upset that Gibraltar participated.
On that point I agree completely. :-)
Nick.
Lynx
magnificent shows and other art-forms so much in abundance in your Tropical
Island. Everytime I've been there, I've had no need of "touristy" deals.
Your museums, parks, restaurants, nightclubs, you really can't ask for more.
With your balmy weather, I suspect Pata Negra mightn't be the go. A long Gin
& Tonic is the way. An English Breakfast Tea with a portion of Lindzer Tart
at 3PM sound perfect, thank you.
I am an avid fan of Zarzuelas, Flamenco (Cante Jondo, of course) and the
classical side of Bullfights. I know, it's cruel, but I can't change that.
At any rate, los que entienden, say that if it wasn't for the spectacle the
breed would long have become extinct.
I'm interested in this downloading of Radio Stations to listen later on in
the only peaceful room in the house, the loo.
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:db78qt$45a$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...