Income Tax
Adie
level of income tax. The reason being to bring some parity of tax levels to
those who do not have a mortgage.
Any truth or is this an old rumour?
Jim Watt
Sounds highly unlikely, given the future loss of tax
income when the MoD contractor replaces the current workforce
with rumanians living in spain, they will have to raise taxes.
Anyone taking out a mortgage on properties today needs all the
help they can get, and interest rates will rise.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Ken
"Adie" <ad...@oh-fuck.com> wrote in message
news:1u66vlxp4b5lj$.g8272hnsm9rx.dlg@40tude.net...
See http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/gov_depts/taxation/tax_index.htm for current
rates of income tax, or in case there have been changes to rates since these
were posted on the www, consult the relevant govt dept at St Jago's.
In the UK there is NO tax relief of mortgages AT ALL, in order to provide
parity then Gib needs to withdraw any mortgage interest relief available.
Ken
zii kell
who can afford it will live in Gib.
Last year, I heard that the income tax rate was to be reduced. I have
heard nothing to the contrary since the MoD rejected the in house bid,
but I only go on rumours so don't believe me.
PS. Happy Constitution Day.
Ken
"zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
news:epkjo2$n1t$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>I suppose this means that more people will live in Spain and only those who
>can afford it will live in Gib.
While Gib appears to have a high level of taxation, don't get carried away
by thinking that taxation = income tax to the exclusion of all else. In the
UK where income tax is lower, national insurance (= social security in Gib)
adds a further 6% to everyone's tax bill, deducted at source. Then there is
VAT at 17.5% on everything you buy (with some - few - exceptions). Certain
goods carry their own particular tax, such as any and all forms of insurance
and fuel (be this petrol or diesel for your car, or gas to heat your home)
each at its own particular rate. Though water is not metered for all (though
the proportion is rising) there is a flat fee which exceeds what you might
spend on water in Gib. So don't get fixated on ONE number - and I haven't
mentioned tax on alcohol and tobacco, these being more discretionary than
any of the above. After all you have to undergo some expenditure to live,
though you need not smoke ever.
>
> Last year, I heard that the income tax rate was to be reduced. I have
> heard nothing to the contrary since the MoD rejected the in house bid, but
> I only go on rumours so don't believe me.
I cannot comment with any authority, but I am fairly certain I read in
Panorama in July '06 (while I was there) that there was a reduction in
income tax planned. Whether he figures posted on the website are the figs
before or after the reduction I have no idea. How the MoD rejection would or
could influence decisions already taken elsewhere and previously I can't
imagine.
> PS. Happy Constitution Day.
Indeed.
"Viva la constitucion", as they used to say across the border from Gib until
it became a punishable offence, referring to the constitution of 1812,
adopted by a govt in exile. When cries of "Viva la constitucion" became a
criminal offence, they reverted to shouting "Viva la Pepa", because it was
adopted on St Joseph's day. The govt in exile of the day was in Cadiz, and
the momument is still there. Of course as soon as Ferdinand (who had backed
the constitution) cane into power he revoked it and arrested those behind it
as they had acted without his authority. Such good governance in Spain!
Ken
Lynx
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:epkr4...@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
> news:epkjo2$n1t$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>I suppose this means that more people will live in Spain and only those
>>who can afford it will live in Gib.
Can Gibraltarians live in Spain with all citizenship duties and
entitlements?
> While Gib appears to have a high level of taxation, don't get carried away
> by thinking that taxation = income tax to the exclusion of all else. In
> the UK where income tax is lower, national insurance (= social security in
> Gib) adds a further 6% to everyone's tax bill, deducted at source. Then
> there is VAT at 17.5% on everything you buy (with some - few -
> exceptions). Certain goods carry their own particular tax, such as any and
> all forms of insurance and fuel (be this petrol or diesel for your car, or
> gas to heat your home) each at its own particular rate. Though water is
> not metered for all (though the proportion is rising) there is a flat fee
> which exceeds what you might spend on water in Gib. So don't get fixated
> on ONE number - and I haven't mentioned tax on alcohol and tobacco, these
> being more discretionary than any of the above. After all you have to
> undergo some expenditure to live, though you need not smoke ever.
The plebs pay taxes and support the all plebs' social services. The rich and
wealthy do neither. Fact.
Ken
"Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
news:nJqvh.301$sd2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:epkr4...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>> news:epkjo2$n1t$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>I suppose this means that more people will live in Spain and only those
>>>who can afford it will live in Gib.
>
> Can Gibraltarians live in Spain with all citizenship duties and
> entitlements?
No, though what applies and what does not apply varies. I'm not sure of the
details. For example, in order to vote at a general election you need to be
resident in Gib continuously during the preceding 6 months. It follows that
if you have not been resident you cannot vote. There may be altered
entitlement to schools, health service etc. Of course there is always the
possibility of "ghost" residence - you state you liove at your uncle's
address, all your correspondence goes there, you collect it on an almosat
daily basis and reply accordingly. Who can tell?
>
>> While Gib appears to have a high level of taxation, don't get carried
>> away by thinking that taxation = income tax to the exclusion of all else.
>> In the UK where income tax is lower, national insurance (= social
>> security in Gib) adds a further 6% to everyone's tax bill, deducted at
>> source. Then there is VAT at 17.5% on everything you buy (with some -
>> few - exceptions). Certain goods carry their own particular tax, such as
>> any and all forms of insurance and fuel (be this petrol or diesel for
>> your car, or gas to heat your home) each at its own particular rate.
>> Though water is not metered for all (though the proportion is rising)
>> there is a flat fee which exceeds what you might spend on water in Gib.
>> So don't get fixated on ONE number - and I haven't mentioned tax on
>> alcohol and tobacco, these being more discretionary than any of the
>> above. After all you have to undergo some expenditure to live, though you
>> need not smoke ever.
>
> The plebs pay taxes and support the all plebs' social services. The rich
> and wealthy do neither. Fact.
The same the whole world over - those rich enough to employ clever
accountants so tat on paper they appear to be paupers will get away with
paying nothing. Those poor enough not to afford them will pay the tax.
K
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
> news:nJqvh.301$sd2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:epkr4...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>>
>>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>>> news:epkjo2$n1t$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>>I suppose this means that more people will live in Spain and only those
>>>>who can afford it will live in Gib.
>>
>> Can Gibraltarians live in Spain with all citizenship duties and
>> entitlements?
>
> No, though what applies and what does not apply varies. I'm not sure of
> the details. For example, in order to vote at a general election you need
> to be resident in Gib continuously during the preceding 6 months. It
> follows that if you have not been resident you cannot vote. There may be
> altered entitlement to schools, health service etc. Of course there is
> always the possibility of "ghost" residence - you state you liove at your
> uncle's address, all your correspondence goes there, you collect it on an
> almosat daily basis and reply accordingly. Who can tell?
Who can tell indeed. But my question was whether a Gibbo would have ordinary
citizens rights in Spain. In other words, a Gibbo decides to move from Gib
to Spain, live and work in Spain. What would his/her citizen status rights
be in Spain? Would they be, as Gibraltarians, entitled to make such a move.
If so, are there many manking such a move?
>> The plebs pay taxes and support the all plebs' social services. The rich
>> and wealthy do neither. Fact.
>
> The same the whole world over - those rich enough to employ clever
> accountants so tat on paper they appear to be paupers will get away with
> paying nothing. Those poor enough not to afford them will pay the tax.
Absolutely. But not necessarily having to appear as being paupers. Tax rules
are blatantly different. And perhaps it stands to reason.
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:epljo...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
>> news:nJqvh.301$sd2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:epkr4...@news1.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "zii kell" <huj22ml...@temporaryinbox.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:epkjo2$n1t$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> ordinary citizens rights in Spain. In other words, a Gibbo decides to move
> from Gib to Spain, live and work in Spain. What would his/her citizen
> status rights be in Spain? Would they be, as Gibraltarians, entitled to
> make such a move. If so, are there many manking such a move?
Sorry, wrong end of stick. I suppose some have moved across to Spain - I
know of ONE. While working and paying taxes in Sp as entitiled to according
to EU rules, they would have the relevant rights and benefits, as well as
the relevant responsibilities. That's never an issue. Difficulties arise
when you reside in one country and work and pay taxes in another, not just
Gib + Spain. I imagine there are some issues Germany + France, Belgium +
Luxembourg etc etc.
K
Lynx
Using Gib and Spain was simply to emphasize the issue, given the "political"
situation. One would think so long as you reside and work in the one place,
there would not be an issue.
darius
<snip>
> my question was whether a Gibbo would have ordinary
> citizens rights in Spain. In other words, a Gibbo decides to move from Gib
> to Spain, live and work in Spain. What would his/her citizen status rights
> be in Spain? Would they be, as Gibraltarians, entitled to make such a move.
> If so, are there many manking such a move?
They would be British Citizens who have moved to Spain with the same
entitlements as any other british citizen who does so (and I think we
can safely confirm that a fair number of British Citizens have done so
and are now quite happily and legally living, working, paying taxes
and reciving health care in Spain).
The more Gibraltar relevant situation (which Ken has mentioned) is
people who live in one EU country but who are directly employed in
(and have their place of work in) another country.
Whilst this occurs on a very small scalle throughout europe I believe
there are actually some similar scenarios on a large scale (mass
employment) in more eastern parts of europe - though I can remeber the
details.
I recall reading about industrial areas deliberately placed near
borders with countrys that were outside the EU (and near cities/towns
on the otherside) to benefit from a cheaper labour force. However the
other country has since joined the EU but the employment situation
remains.
Lynx
"darius" <Darius....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1170298621....@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I believe you are right. I recall listening to a news report on production
plants being erected in close proximity to EU borders, for the very reason
you state. Likewise, I cannot recall the finer details.
On Gibraltarians working in Spain, I was told by a fellow Gibraltarian, that
he as Gibraltarian had no recognition in Spain and therefore his chances of
seeking work in, and moving into, Spain were null and void. This friend has
always lived in Gib. I am simply curious as to whether Gibraltarians have
the legal right to reside and work in Spain with full residential and
citizenship rights.
Jim Watt
>On Gibraltarians working in Spain, I was told by a fellow Gibraltarian, that
>he as Gibraltarian had no recognition in Spain and therefore his chances of
>seeking work in, and moving into, Spain were null and void. This friend has
>always lived in Gib. I am simply curious as to whether Gibraltarians have
>the legal right to reside and work in Spain with full residential and
>citizenship rights.
I thought we had been round this one enough by now that you would
realise the foolishness of the above statement.
Being Gibraltarian is a status which give you rights within Gibraltar
and not a citizenship. Gibraltarians are British Citizens and Britain
is part of the EU. Consequentally Gibraltarians have EXACTLY the same
rights in Spain as a German national. With the added advantage they
probably speak the language like a native, which in this area means
not very well.
So we have the right to live, work etc in Spain as much as they bave
anywhere else in the EU. Thats what its all about, freedom of
movement of goods and people.
Ken
Yes they do. I know of one, living in Granada, who has been there for many
years now. I don't know this person well enough to know any of the details
though, I just know of the fact of living and working in Spain. It's
entirely within the EU rules. The legal rights are there. Whether there's
any hassle because one is from Gib I can't say.
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:36b3s2hc2n8rkfaol...@4ax.com...
I see. Perhaps more Gibbos should tune into this ng, where they'd not only
get the facts but be told how foolish they are in the process. Ever thought
of becoming an ambassador for Gib?
Lynx
It's interesting to know where Gibraltarians stand in this subject. Perhaps
this friend of mine was misinformed. Glad to know Gibbos can move about like
any other EU citizen.
Ken
I know of a Giblet who moves around mostly between the UK and Luxembourg.
AFAIK no problems. I know of many Gib folk in the UK who have no problems at
all, but of all places, the UK is one place where we shouldn't have any
difficulties at all. I certainly have not experienced any in all my time
here.
K
Jim Watt
>I see. Perhaps more Gibbos should tune into this ng, where they'd not only
>get the facts but be told how foolish they are in the process. Ever thought
>of becoming an ambassador for Gib?
No but have considered drinking beer in the Olympics
as the event is normally dominated by th Aussies.
However Gib is not recognised by the IOC as ite run by
the Spanish.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:51:22 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>I see. Perhaps more Gibbos should tune into this ng, where they'd not only
>>get the facts but be told how foolish they are in the process. Ever
>>thought
>>of becoming an ambassador for Gib?
>
> No but have considered drinking beer in the Olympics
> as the event is normally dominated by th Aussies.
The Aussies, now there's a case study. I'm part Aussie by choice, but I'm
certainly not a beer guzzling sheep farmer.
Here I'm "accused" of having a Pome accent. In Gib bartenders accuse me of
having an Aussie accent. Just can't bloody win!
At any rate, your beer comes nowhere near the quality of our brew. Your
stuff's more like donkey wee.
> However Gib is not recognised by the IOC as ite run by
> the Spanish.
I always thought it run by the Catalans. Why do the Pomes and Catalans, and
another half a dozen countries in Europe, share a Palestinian, St. George as
your patron? Where's the connection?
Lynx
<luc...@eternal-flames.gov> wrote in message
news:30m6s21d4ctiau877...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 11:38:40 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>but I'm certainly not a beer guzzling sheep farmer.
>
I guess you are, hmm?
Jim Watt
>I always thought it run by the Catalans. Why do the Pomes and Catalans, and
>another half a dozen countries in Europe, share a Palestinian, St. George as
>your patron? Where's the connection?
dunno mine is St Bernard now.
However, if one applied Norman Tebbit's 'Cricket test
I would be a stateless national.
Not having tried Aussie beer in its own land can't say
but the exported stuff is like sex in a canoe.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
Your expulsed friends won't be too happy then.
> However, if one applied Norman Tebbit's 'Cricket test
> I would be a stateless national.
You have no cricket nor tennis players, no swimmers, no footballers. What's
the point?
> Not having tried Aussie beer in its own land can't say
> but the exported stuff is like sex in a canoe.
Don't knock it, beats water beds.
My fridge's stacked with Heineken and Corona.
Jim Watt
>You have no cricket nor tennis players, no swimmers, no footballers. What's
>the point?
So fearsome is the reputation of the GFA that Spain moved
heaven and earth to prevent us joining UEFA
Our national cricket team does well and one of the swimmers
was banned from competing in an open competition in cadiz
because he scooped up all the medals.
But personally I don't care for sport.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:46:40 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>You have no cricket nor tennis players, no swimmers, no footballers.
>>What's
>>the point?
>
> So fearsome is the reputation of the GFA that Spain moved
> heaven and earth to prevent us joining UEFA
On the one hand Britain denies Gibraltarian Citizenship. On the other you
pretend to join UEFA, representing whom?
> Our national cricket team does well and one of the swimmers
> was banned from competing in an open competition in cadiz
> because he scooped up all the medals.
National team? Sorry, it does not compute. There's no nation without
citizenship.
Can you expand on the Cadiz competition?
> But personally I don't care for sport.
Obviously. UEFA's just another moronic distraction to keep little minds off
crucial issues.
Jim Watt
>
>"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>news:85u8s29u60tgpfrhs...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:46:40 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>You have no cricket nor tennis players, no swimmers, no footballers.
>>>What's
>>>the point?
>>
>> So fearsome is the reputation of the GFA that Spain moved
>> heaven and earth to prevent us joining UEFA
>
>On the one hand Britain denies Gibraltarian Citizenship. On the other you
>pretend to join UEFA, representing whom?
Don't be a cunt, we have not 'pretended' to join UEFA
Gibraltar has been attempting to join UEFA for years
since before the admission rules were changed by Spain
to exclude us and our admission has been ordered by
the Court for Arbitration in Sport (CAS) which is a
higher aurhority than the UEFA committee.
>> Our national cricket team does well and one of the swimmers
>> was banned from competing in an open competition in cadiz
>> because he scooped up all the medals.
>
>National team? Sorry, it does not compute. There's no nation without
>citizenship.
Please explain that to the Welsh and the Scots
>Obviously. UEFA's just another moronic distraction to keep little minds off
>crucial issues.
You really should make some attempt to follow events in Gibraltar
there is a wealth of information available these days online.
The UEFA fiasco is a clear demonstration that whatever has been
said in Cordoba, that the Spanish Government has not given up its
claim to the territory of Gibraltar, and that it intends to continue
with attacking the aspirations of the Gibraltarian people.
The prime responsibility of any Government is defence of the realm
and that means countering the above.
Now read
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/04/wnkor04.xml
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:04:05 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>news:85u8s29u60tgpfrhs...@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 02 Feb 2007 17:46:40 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>You have no cricket nor tennis players, no swimmers, no footballers.
>>>>What's
>>>>the point?
>>>
>>> So fearsome is the reputation of the GFA that Spain moved
>>> heaven and earth to prevent us joining UEFA
>>
>>On the one hand Britain denies Gibraltarian Citizenship. On the other you
>>pretend to join UEFA, representing whom?
>
> Don't be a cunt, we have not 'pretended' to join UEFA
> Gibraltar has been attempting to join UEFA for years
> since before the admission rules were changed by Spain
> to exclude us and our admission has been ordered by
> the Court for Arbitration in Sport (CAS) which is a
> higher aurhority than the UEFA committee.
I like them c@nts, but that doesn't make me one.
Indeed, Gibraltar should be admited by UEFA and it should make its OWN
representation in all World Forums. But not as a second class citizen, come
belonger.
If Gib's part and parcel of the UK, why can't its sportsmen and women form
part of British contingencies?
>>> Our national cricket team does well and one of the swimmers
>>> was banned from competing in an open competition in cadiz
>>> because he scooped up all the medals.
>>
>>National team? Sorry, it does not compute. There's no nation without
>>citizenship.
>
> Please explain that to the Welsh and the Scots
You don't have to go that far. Ask any UK northerner, and they'll tell you
London is but another planet. They do not even read London newspapers. The
Welsh, if not today, not that long ago, would run away from the mines and
hence their homeland for foreign shores seeking a decent living. The Scots,
not even the famous tattoo can remedy their high unemployment. Money and
power gravitates towards London, and not necessarily to benefit Londoners.
>>Obviously. UEFA's just another moronic distraction to keep little minds
>>off
>>crucial issues.
>
> You really should make some attempt to follow events in Gibraltar
> there is a wealth of information available these days online.
I know Gibraltar, as I know the Gibraltarian ethos. And no online crap is
going to change realities. Did you not say there is an average of 3 cars per
household in Gibraltar? Would you care to tell why so many cars in a place
where there is hardly room to live, let alone drive? Would it not be
rationale to say that the much maligned refinary benefits the very few at
the expense of Gibraltarian and Campo residents health?
> The UEFA fiasco is a clear demonstration that whatever has been
> said in Cordoba, that the Spanish Government has not given up its
> claim to the territory of Gibraltar, and that it intends to continue
> with attacking the aspirations of the Gibraltarian people.
This is nothing new. The whole world and the martians know Spain has not
disowned on its claims to Gibraltar.
>
> The prime responsibility of any Government is defence of the realm
> and that means countering the above.
Give Gibraltarians a clear status and stop screwing them around.
>
> Now read
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/04/wnkor04.xml
This article says nothing except that arms deals will Carry On.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:04:05 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
> The UEFA fiasco is a clear demonstration that whatever has been
> said in Cordoba, that the Spanish Government has not given up its
> claim to the territory of Gibraltar, and that it intends to continue
> with attacking the aspirations of the Gibraltarian people.
"despite the historic deal last year on Gibraltar's future - Madrid has yet
to overcome its enmity with Britain over this tiny, rocky colony."
The above is an extract of the Telegraph's article, the url you of which so
prodigiously posted with your less than gentlemanly reply.
Undoubtedly, the article by third-grade reporter Graham Keeley, is making
reference to the unmentioned Cordoba Agreement. This agreement was made at
"local level", and it demonstrates Gibraltar's and Andalusia's capacity to
negotiate with each other, especially when not impeded by London or Madrid.
It is not an international agreement, nor has neither side ceded a
millimetre. Is Gibraltar a colony or British overseas territory?
Jim Watt
>Give Gibraltarians a clear status and stop screwing them around.
Gibraltarians have a clear status, British Citizens. Thats
what the majority want and thats what we have got end of story.
>> Now read
>>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/04/wnkor04.xml
>
>This article says nothing except that arms deals will Carry On.
Clearly then you missed the lead sentence
"A Europe-wide embargo on supplying arms to North Korea has been
blocked because the Spanish government objects to a passing mention of
Gibraltar in the treaty"
Jim Watt
>
>"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>news:uvgbs21urot2i7gqf...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 02:04:05 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>>
>> The UEFA fiasco is a clear demonstration that whatever has been
>> said in Cordoba, that the Spanish Government has not given up its
>> claim to the territory of Gibraltar, and that it intends to continue
>> with attacking the aspirations of the Gibraltarian people.
>> --
>> Jim Watt
>> http://www.gibnet.com
>
>"despite the historic deal last year on Gibraltar's future - Madrid has yet
>to overcome its enmity with Britain over this tiny, rocky colony."
>
>The above is an extract of the Telegraph's article, the url you of which so
>prodigiously posted with your less than gentlemanly reply.
I believe in calling a spade a spade and not a pointed shovel.
Ken
What nonsense! Shouls a person from Gib who is excellent at bowls play for
England, Scotland, Wales or N Ireland? If someone from Gib is to be given a
choice of "home" nations for which to play, why not permit anyone from the
British Isles to choose what "home nation" they are to play for too? The
question of representing within one of the "home nations" becomes one of
whose home?
A person from Gibraltar should represent Gibraltar, IM(+ many others')HO.
> I know Gibraltar, as I know the Gibraltarian ethos. And no online crap is
> going to change realities. Did you not say there is an average of 3 cars
> per household in Gibraltar? Would you care to tell why so many cars in a
> place where there is hardly room to live, let alone drive? Would it not be
> rationale to say that the much maligned refinary benefits the very few at
> the expense of Gibraltarian and Campo residents health?
I agree as to the number of cars, and it is true that the ESG and their
counterparts next door make a great deal of noise about environmental issues
which is completely correct. However I have a car parked on my drive here
which consumes less fuel than some mopeds!
Are you aware though despite these claims on people's health that the life
expectancy in Gib is 2nd highest in Europe? Whatever detriments there may be
from the refinery, these must be offset by other factors pushng the other
way. Of course that is no reason to brook the refinery's belch - how much
longer would the local life expectancy be with clean air and water all
around?
>>
>> Now read
>>
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/04/wnkor04.xml
>
> This article says nothing except that arms deals will Carry On.
The article shows that there is no spirit within Spain of a new deal climate
in existance. The permafrost referred to in the article has not frozen.
Perhaps we need some of that global warming brought about by those 3 cars
per household in Gib! :))
K
Ken
Incorrect. The Cordoba accord was reached by the repective govts of Gib UK
and Spain. It is an international agreement, not an agreement of local
fiefdoms between mayors.
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:36:51 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
> I believe in calling a spade a spade and not a pointed shovel.
The article's a heap of shit.
You were not in Gib during Franco's era, how come he's rubbed off on you.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
> news:FAkxh.2762$sd2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> England, Scotland, Wales or N Ireland? If someone from Gib is to be given
> a choice of "home" nations for which to play, why not permit anyone from
> the British Isles to choose what "home nation" they are to play for too?
> The question of representing within one of the "home nations" becomes one
> of whose home?
All these nations you mention and their "citizens" form an integral part of
the UK, where they have unquestionalble citizenship rights.
> A person from Gibraltar should represent Gibraltar, IM(+ many others')HO.
Agreed. But according to the yobbo, and he's right, the UK does not
recognize Gibraltarians as citizens of Gibraltar. How then can Gibraltarian
sportsmen and women represent a "nation" to which they have no citizenship.
Seems like Spain is not the only member in the tripartite refusing to
recognize Gibraltarians rights to their homeland. Old chap!
>> I know Gibraltar, as I know the Gibraltarian ethos. And no online crap is
>> going to change realities. Did you not say there is an average of 3 cars
>> per household in Gibraltar? Would you care to tell why so many cars in a
>> place where there is hardly room to live, let alone drive? Would it not
>> be rationale to say that the much maligned refinary benefits the very few
>> at the expense of Gibraltarian and Campo residents health?
>
> I agree as to the number of cars, and it is true that the ESG and their
> counterparts next door make a great deal of noise about environmental
> issues which is completely correct. However I have a car parked on my
> drive here which consumes less fuel than some mopeds!
I thought only Mr Bean's road nemesis drove that type of car.
> Are you aware though despite these claims on people's health that the life
> expectancy in Gib is 2nd highest in Europe? Whatever detriments there may
> be from the refinery, these must be offset by other factors pushng the
> other way. Of course that is no reason to brook the refinery's belch - how
> much longer would the local life expectancy be with clean air and water
> all around?
Yes, I am aware and no idea how much longer they might live. You make it
sound as though long-life expectancy is an aberation.
> The article shows that there is no spirit within Spain of a new deal
> climate in existance. The permafrost referred to in the article has not
> frozen. Perhaps we need some of that global warming brought about by those
> 3 cars per household in Gib! :))
The telegraph's a cheap paper. :((
Lynx
You are right. However, news reports do state that the PP had no part of it,
making the agreement a fragile one. And that the sovereignty issue was not
touched on.
The Telegraph is a cheap paper and its reporter most probably thinks
Gibraltar is a colony, an island, and located somewhere in the Sth Atlantic.
:))
Ken
The PP is the part of opposition in Spain at the moment, and therefore
opposes all and everything the Sp govt does. It is the manner of
oppositions. However I do not expect them to support the agreements reached
once they get into powr, and would not be surprised if, in typical Spanish
practice fashin, they were to renege on those parts they could do. I doubt
if by the time they came back into power - even if by the next general
election in Spain - they could easily undo the recognition of the 350 IDD
code. They would not want to undo the pensions deal, but I fully expect to
see loads and loads of interference at the airport again, perhaps with
retrograde steps as regards Gib's connectivity here. KNowing the UK, they'd
let them get away with it.
What was sorely missing from the Cordoba agreement, as indeed is missing
from EVERY SINGLE international accord, is what sanctions may apply against
a signatory to the agreement in the event of non-compliance with the
agreement.
> The Telegraph is a cheap paper and its reporter most probably thinks
> Gibraltar is a colony, an island, and located somewhere in the Sth
> Atlantic.
The institution of the DT is sound. As to the reporter and his knowledge of
Gib I cannot comment. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than
solid, a no reporter's appears to be.
K
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eq4sd...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
>> news:FAkxh.2762$sd2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> What nonsense! Shouls a person from Gib who is excellent at bowls play
>> for England, Scotland, Wales or N Ireland? If someone from Gib is to be
>> given a choice of "home" nations for which to play, why not permit anyone
>> from the British Isles to choose what "home nation" they are to play for
>> too? The question of representing within one of the "home nations"
>> becomes one of whose home?
>
> All these nations you mention and their "citizens" form an integral part
> of the UK, where they have unquestionalble citizenship rights.
Yes - and a person from Gib has equal rights in the UK, however the teritory
of Gib is not enfranchised as being part of the UK, but it temains the
homeland of the Gibraltarian, which he or she is keen to represent. The
nonsense of the UEFA business is that Gib was excluded because it has no
separate status in the UN. Neither does England and Scotland, which at least
are nations even if not independent from each other. Wales is a
prioncipality, not a nation, and has never had sepaate status as a nation
from England. N Ireland is a province. If the Sp ostensibly did this to keep
the Basques from having membeship of UEFA separate from the Sp state they
should have campaigned to get N Ireland banned.
>
>> A person from Gibraltar should represent Gibraltar, IM(+ many others')HO.
>
> Agreed. But according to the yobbo, and he's right, the UK does not
> recognize Gibraltarians as citizens of Gibraltar. How then can
> Gibraltarian sportsmen and women represent a "nation" to which they have
> no citizenship. Seems like Spain is not the only member in the tripartite
> refusing to recognize Gibraltarians rights to their homeland. Old chap!
There may not officially be such citizenship, but it is the term I use to
refer to myself when describing my nationality.
>
>>> I know Gibraltar, as I know the Gibraltarian ethos. And no online crap
>>> is going to change realities. Did you not say there is an average of 3
>>> cars per household in Gibraltar? Would you care to tell why so many cars
>>> in a place where there is hardly room to live, let alone drive? Would it
>>> not be rationale to say that the much maligned refinary benefits the
>>> very few at the expense of Gibraltarian and Campo residents health?
>>
>> I agree as to the number of cars, and it is true that the ESG and their
>> counterparts next door make a great deal of noise about environmental
>> issues which is completely correct. However I have a car parked on my
>> drive here which consumes less fuel than some mopeds!
>
> I thought only Mr Bean's road nemesis drove that type of car.
The Reliant Robin is a horrid contraption! No, I refer to the Toyota Yaris
with a 1.4 Diesel engine - over 60mpg.
>
>> Are you aware though despite these claims on people's health that the
>> life expectancy in Gib is 2nd highest in Europe? Whatever detriments
>> there may be from the refinery, these must be offset by other factors
>> pushng the other way. Of course that is no reason to brook the refinery's
>> belch - how much longer would the local life expectancy be with clean air
>> and water all around?
>
> Yes, I am aware and no idea how much longer they might live. You make it
> sound as though long-life expectancy is an aberation.
It seems contradictory to claim poor health in Gib because of pollution
brought about by the hevay industry nearby when in fact the Gibraltarian is
the second longest lved person in Europe! It does in those terms appear
paradoxical. I wonder how long we might live in the absence of stressors in
the environment?
>
>> The article shows that there is no spirit within Spain of a new deal
>> climate in existance. The permafrost referred to in the article has not
>> frozen. Perhaps we need some of that global warming brought about by
>> those 3 cars per household in Gib! :))
>
> The telegraph's a cheap paper. :((
Far from it, it's one of the most sober orgns of Fleet St you can find. The
Aussie Telegraph might be a differnt mater, I have no idea, and perhaps
you're confusing the two?
K
Lynx
I recall once waiting for an appointment, when this man came storming out of
the personnel's office. Following this dramatic scene, I was called in. Not
knowing what might happen next, I started the interview asking what had
happened. The officer replied, "That fellow came in for a job, refused to
speak English, and insisted in speaking Welsh!" I landed the job I went in
for. If anyone in the UK is a people, it's the Welsh, the true Britons. Like
Asturia, Wales has a very strong sense of identity. It pays for them to be
the principality of the future king.
>>> A person from Gibraltar should represent Gibraltar, IM(+ many
>>> others')HO.
>>
>> Agreed. But according to the yobbo, and he's right, the UK does not
>> recognize Gibraltarians as citizens of Gibraltar. How then can
>> Gibraltarian sportsmen and women represent a "nation" to which they have
>> no citizenship. Seems like Spain is not the only member in the tripartite
>> refusing to recognize Gibraltarians rights to their homeland. Old chap!
>
> There may not officially be such citizenship, but it is the term I use to
> refer to myself when describing my nationality.
Yes, me too, but that's not the frikking point!
>>>> I know Gibraltar, as I know the Gibraltarian ethos. And no online crap
>>>> is going to change realities. Did you not say there is an average of 3
>>>> cars per household in Gibraltar? Would you care to tell why so many
>>>> cars in a place where there is hardly room to live, let alone drive?
>>>> Would it not be rationale to say that the much maligned refinary
>>>> benefits the very few at the expense of Gibraltarian and Campo
>>>> residents health?
>>>
>>> I agree as to the number of cars, and it is true that the ESG and their
>>> counterparts next door make a great deal of noise about environmental
>>> issues which is completely correct. However I have a car parked on my
>>> drive here which consumes less fuel than some mopeds!
>>
>> I thought only Mr Bean's road nemesis drove that type of car.
>
> The Reliant Robin is a horrid contraption! No, I refer to the Toyota Yaris
> with a 1.4 Diesel engine - over 60mpg.
Ah! We're in similar company, though not for long. Thinking of going for a
German car.
>>> Are you aware though despite these claims on people's health that the
>>> life expectancy in Gib is 2nd highest in Europe? Whatever detriments
>>> there may be from the refinery, these must be offset by other factors
>>> pushng the other way. Of course that is no reason to brook the
>>> refinery's belch - how much longer would the local life expectancy be
>>> with clean air and water all around?
>>
>> Yes, I am aware and no idea how much longer they might live. You make it
>> sound as though long-life expectancy is an aberation.
>
> It seems contradictory to claim poor health in Gib because of pollution
> brought about by the hevay industry nearby when in fact the Gibraltarian
> is the second longest lved person in Europe! It does in those terms appear
> paradoxical. I wonder how long we might live in the absence of stressors
> in the environment?
You keep saying that, yet, there hasn't been any official report on the
incidence of cancer in Gib. The one thing which helps Gibraltarians live
longer is the Levante and Poniente Winds, which blow away all types of
garbage other metropolis have to endure. Being surrounded by water on all
three sides, probably adds to the wellbeing, all that rich iodine everytime
you inhales.
>>> The article shows that there is no spirit within Spain of a new deal
>>> climate in existance. The permafrost referred to in the article has not
>>> frozen. Perhaps we need some of that global warming brought about by
>>> those 3 cars per household in Gib! :))
>>
>> The telegraph's a cheap paper. :((
>
> Far from it, it's one of the most sober orgns of Fleet St you can find.
> The Aussie Telegraph might be a differnt mater, I have no idea, and
> perhaps you're confusing the two?
When it reports on Gib in the manner that article did, either the editor or
the reporter obviously needs a holliday. Aussie papers worth reading are the
Melbourne Age and The Australian.
Lynx
Hence it's not an international agreement, as in, an enduring agreement
between two countries. Rather an agreement between parties.
Somehow, I suspect the PP would not undo the agreement, for various reasons.
> What was sorely missing from the Cordoba agreement, as indeed is missing
> from EVERY SINGLE international accord, is what sanctions may apply
> against a signatory to the agreement in the event of non-compliance with
> the agreement.
This is not a binding agreement by any of the signatories. Hopefully it will
be the first of others to follow. If not, we might as well crawl back into
the caves and up the trees.
>> The Telegraph is a cheap paper and its reporter most probably thinks
>> Gibraltar is a colony, an island, and located somewhere in the Sth
>> Atlantic.
>
> The institution of the DT is sound. As to the reporter and his knowledge
> of Gib I cannot comment. Though I wouldn't be surprised if it was less
> than solid, a no reporter's appears to be.
No only are reporters these days not solid on the topics they cover, their
English in many instances is simply atrocious.
Have you been to the Sherlock Holmes Restaurant in Baker St, London?
Ken
>
> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:eq56v...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
>> news:VGnxh.2826$sd2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:eq4sd...@news4.newsguy.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:FAkxh.2762$sd2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>
>
> of the personnel's office. Following this dramatic scene, I was called in.
> Not knowing what might happen next, I started the interview asking what
> had happened. The officer replied, "That fellow came in for a job, refused
> to speak English, and insisted in speaking Welsh!" I landed the job I went
> in for. If anyone in the UK is a people, it's the Welsh, the true Britons.
> Like Asturia, Wales has a very strong sense of identity. It pays for them
> to be the principality of the future king.
I remarked to a Scotsman once, when in Stirling and having been regaled by a
"pipes & drums" extravaganza that it seemed to me that what it meant to be
English was, what it meant to be British after you'd knocked out the
Scottish and Welsh identities. For maany - too many - years Englishness has
been apologetic for its prior history of conquest and is now is a
self-flagellatory state of contrition. Hence there is no Trafalgar Day (for
fear of offending the French), there is NO celebration this year of the Act
of Union (for fear of offending the separatists), BA did away with the Union
flag on the tailplanes of its fleet (for fear of offending the peoples of
the parts of the world previously nder British rule) etc etc.
THAT is the difficulty Gib is fighting against when the UK will not stand up
for Gib when the occasion demands, because Britain is too scared to cause
offence anywhere lest it be deemed imperialist. In the UK's eyes we appear
stand for all the things the UK is (mistakenly) ashamed of.
It is a sentiment the Yanks would do well to learn, the world might become a
safer place for all!
>
>>>> A person from Gibraltar should represent Gibraltar, IM(+ many
>>>> others')HO.
>>>
>>> Agreed. But according to the yobbo, and he's right, the UK does not
>>> recognize Gibraltarians as citizens of Gibraltar. How then can
>>> Gibraltarian sportsmen and women represent a "nation" to which they have
>>> no citizenship. Seems like Spain is not the only member in the
>>> tripartite refusing to recognize Gibraltarians rights to their homeland.
>>> Old chap!
>>
>> There may not officially be such citizenship, but it is the term I use to
>> refer to myself when describing my nationality.
>
> Yes, me too, but that's not the frikking point!
The point is that unless we believe it ourselves, how can we expect anyone
else to believe it at all?
>>>> I agree as to the number of cars, and it is true that the ESG and their
>>>> counterparts next door make a great deal of noise about environmental
>>>> issues which is completely correct. However I have a car parked on my
>>>> drive here which consumes less fuel than some mopeds!
>>>
>>> I thought only Mr Bean's road nemesis drove that type of car.
>>
>> The Reliant Robin is a horrid contraption! No, I refer to the Toyota
>> Yaris with a 1.4 Diesel engine - over 60mpg.
>
> Ah! We're in similar company, though not for long. Thinking of going for a
> German car.
If you want reliability, buy far east. Woth the exception of a Volvo I had
some years ago, the only reliable cars I've had have been made in Japan or
Korea.
>> It seems contradictory to claim poor health in Gib because of pollution
>> brought about by the hevay industry nearby when in fact the Gibraltarian
>> is the second longest lved person in Europe! It does in those terms
>> appear paradoxical. I wonder how long we might live in the absence of
>> stressors in the environment?
>
> You keep saying that, yet, there hasn't been any official report on the
> incidence of cancer in Gib. The one thing which helps Gibraltarians live
> longer is the Levante and Poniente Winds, which blow away all types of
> garbage other metropolis have to endure. Being surrounded by water on all
> three sides, probably adds to the wellbeing, all that rich iodine
> everytime you inhales.
Maybe the lifestyle - the time to oneself. Anyone in Gib has AT LEAST an
hour more top themselves each day than just about anywhere else due to lack
of commuting time. Whether you spend that time in bed or with your mates or
with your family, it all seems a bette option than spending it by yourself
in your car or pressed up against people you don't know in a train.
K
Ken
Any minute now I expecrt you to break out into some refrain by Rex Harrison
in My Fair Lady!
>
> Have you been to the Sherlock Holmes Restaurant in Baker St, London?
No - but there is no 112a Baker Street! Someone's done away with his house!
K
Lynx
>
>> Not only are reporters these days not solid on the topics they cover,
>
> Any minute now I expecrt you to break out into some refrain by Rex
> Harrison in My Fair Lady!
Why can't the English learn to speak?
>> Have you been to the Sherlock Holmes Restaurant in Baker St, London?
>
> No - but there is no 112a Baker Street! Someone's done away with his
> house!
I've been advised there's a most quaint restaurant where he supposedly
lived. What would Xmas be without fatherXmas, after all? It's a tourist
attraction, and a money spinner, no doubt. Was it 112a or 221?
Lynx
>
> I remarked to a Scotsman once, when in Stirling and having been regaled by
> a "pipes & drums" extravaganza that it seemed to me that what it meant to
> be English was, what it meant to be British after you'd knocked out the
> Scottish and Welsh identities. For maany - too many - years Englishness
> has been apologetic for its prior history of conquest and is now is a
> self-flagellatory state of contrition. Hence there is no Trafalgar Day
> (for fear of offending the French), there is NO celebration this year of
> the Act of Union (for fear of offending the separatists), BA did away with
> the Union flag on the tailplanes of its fleet (for fear of offending the
> peoples of the parts of the world previously nder British rule) etc etc.
We enjoy and respect that which we were brought up with. Of course we enjoy
Britishness, albeit with a Gibraltarian tilt in it, and keeping a healthy
distance from those who might deem us colonial servants.
> THAT is the difficulty Gib is fighting against when the UK will not stand
> up for Gib when the occasion demands, because Britain is too scared to
> cause offence anywhere lest it be deemed imperialist. In the UK's eyes we
> appear stand for all the things the UK is (mistakenly) ashamed of.
The British seem to have turned against themselves wherever you may come
across them. Even here!
> It is a sentiment the Yanks would do well to learn, the world might become
> a safer place for all!
Unfortunately, it is not necessarily the Yanks who rule the us.
>>> There may not officially be such citizenship, but it is the term I use
>>> to refer to myself when describing my nationality.
>>
>> Yes, me too, but that's not the frikking point!
>
> The point is that unless we believe it ourselves, how can we expect anyone
> else to believe it at all?
I do not expect that kind of reasoning from you, of all people!
>>>> I thought only Mr Bean's road nemesis drove that type of car.
>>>
>>> The Reliant Robin is a horrid contraption! No, I refer to the Toyota
>>> Yaris with a 1.4 Diesel engine - over 60mpg.
>>
>> Ah! We're in similar company, though not for long. Thinking of going for
>> a German car.
>
> If you want reliability, buy far east. Woth the exception of a Volvo I had
> some years ago, the only reliable cars I've had have been made in Japan or
> Korea.
Not only reliable, but economical and easy to find spare parts for.
> Maybe the lifestyle - the time to oneself. Anyone in Gib has AT LEAST an
> hour more top themselves each day than just about anywhere else due to
> lack of commuting time. Whether you spend that time in bed or with your
> mates or with your family, it all seems a bette option than spending it by
> yourself in your car or pressed up against people you don't know in a
> train.
True.
Ken
NOW you got me! Not only do I have this great problem with transposition of
letters when typing, I'm also prone to jumbling up numbers in a sequence -
which is why I was v keen (and eventually prevailed) to see a computer
system we bought at work should have as many inputs as possible by barcode,
with the unique identifiers electronically generated - removed human error
when typing. Glad to say that though it was thought overkill by some,
they've all come round to my way of thinking given there have been NO input
errors in the relevant parts of the database over the years.
K
Ken
>>>> There may not officially be such citizenship, but it is the term I use
>>>> to refer to myself when describing my nationality.
>>>
>>> Yes, me too, but that's not the frikking point!
>>
>> The point is that unless we believe it ourselves, how can we expect
>> anyone else to believe it at all?
>
> I do not expect that kind of reasoning from you, of all people!
Too much passion perhaps? :))
K
Jim Watt
>
>"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>news:9prbs2tnu6c2rsbei...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:36:51 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I believe in calling a spade a spade and not a pointed shovel.
>
>The article's a heap of shit.
It would seem to be a factual account. In what particular
way do you find it incorrect.
>You were not in Gib during Franco's era, how come he's rubbed off on you.
He left as I arrived, but strong smells take some time
to dissapate.
Jim Watt
<snip>
> The Cordoba accord was reached by the repective govts of Gib UK
>> and Spain. It is an international agreement, not an agreement of local
>> fiefdoms between mayors.
>
>You are right. However, news reports do state that the PP had no part of it,
possibly because they are not in Government.
The other parties who had nothing to do with it but stood
for election last time in spain are
CiU
ERC
EAJ-PNV
IU
CC
BNG
CHA
EA
Na-Bai
PA
BLOC-EV
PSM-EN,EU,EV,ER
CENB
ARALAR-ZUTIK
LV-E
PAR
CDS
EV-AE
PSA
PH
LVCM
IR
P.CANNABIS
PFyV
DN
UPL
LV-GV
PCPE
FE de las JONS
UM
FE
TC-PNC
POSI
LVRM
MSR
CDN
PADE
VERDES
FA
ESPAÑA 2000
PAS
PNC
EU
LV
I.DE.S.
AU.TO.NO.MO
A
APCa
GVE
PKD
CI
ADN
IRV
PTPRE
PAE
Ei
PC
AA
FPG
CG
UPSa
EV-AV
PMAR
CNC
ASI
OtraDem
PREPAL
PSICV
PRF
L.I. (LIT-CI)
AxGC
AUN
A-IZ
PPCr
IAS
UCL
PSPC
UCM
PNCA
ZU
Ud Ca
FDE
PSDA
AMAGA
N
TD
UPB
PNT
LG
PRGU
UN
CCSE
PDN
GPHAE
In case you are curious the P-cannabis got 16,845 votes amounting to
0.07 % of the electorate.
see:
http://www.elmundo.es/especiales/2004/03/espana/14m/resultados/congreso/globales/
Lynx
Absolutely. A passion we all share. :))
Lynx
Well. Only a Gibraltarian would have the gumption to put his/her ideas
forward against the general prevailing "common sense". This one here too,
has implemented some methodologies, followed by grumbling "cannot be told
what to dos". :))
On S Holmes. The quintessential Jeremy Brett played the role like non other.
But tell me, was S Holmes suppose to be amphibian too?
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 15:48:35 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
>>news:9prbs2tnu6c2rsbei...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 13:36:51 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe in calling a spade a spade and not a pointed shovel.
>>
>>The article's a heap of shit.
>
> It would seem to be a factual account. In what particular
> way do you find it incorrect.
A reporter's job is to report. The article "assumes" an agreement in which
sovereignty is somehow included. The agreement is simplistic, "cooperation"
between the two sides Gib and Spain. Nothing more. That reporter needs a
healthy dose of Pa Amb Tomàquet with a good stiff drink.
>>You were not in Gib during Franco's era, how come he's rubbed off on you.
>
> He left as I arrived, but strong smells take some time
> to dissapate.
Well, make sure you don't assume his role in this ng. How long were you
there before the border opened?
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 16:24:35 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> The Cordoba accord was reached by the repective govts of Gib UK
>>> and Spain. It is an international agreement, not an agreement of local
>>> fiefdoms between mayors.
>>
>>You are right. However, news reports do state that the PP had no part of
>>it,
>
> possibly because they are not in Government.
When the full House agrees, the agreement is far for biding.
Amazing! Who would have thought. BTW, are the VERDES a bunch of perverts?
:))
Interesting.
Jim Watt
>>>The article's a heap of shit.
>>
>> It would seem to be a factual account. In what particular
>> way do you find it incorrect.
>
>A reporter's job is to report. The article "assumes" an agreement in which
>sovereignty is somehow included. The agreement is simplistic, "cooperation"
>between the two sides Gib and Spain.
I really think you need to read it more carefully, it says:
"In a three-way deal between London, Madrid and Gibraltar, it was
agreed to shelve the question of sovereignty and concentrate on
practical measures to improve relations."
That is factually correct. Let us not forget however, that Tony
Blair hatched a plan to share sovereignty with Spain and Jack
Straw stated that "They had an agreement in principle to do so"
Perhaps you are mixing up your agreements. The Telegraph is not.
>How long were you there before the border opened?
As said, I arrived shortly after Franco left Spain.
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
He did so on 20th November 1975.
K
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 09:59:08 GMT, "Lynx" <t...@nquilo.com> wrote:
>
>>>>The article's a heap of shit.
>>>
>>> It would seem to be a factual account. In what particular
>>> way do you find it incorrect.
>>
>>A reporter's job is to report. The article "assumes" an agreement in which
>>sovereignty is somehow included. The agreement is simplistic,
>>"cooperation"
>>between the two sides Gib and Spain.
>
> I really think you need to read it more carefully, it says:
>
> "In a three-way deal between London, Madrid and Gibraltar, it was
> agreed to shelve the question of sovereignty and concentrate on
> practical measures to improve relations."
>
> That is factually correct. Let us not forget however, that Tony
> Blair hatched a plan to share sovereignty with Spain and Jack
> Straw stated that "They had an agreement in principle to do so"
>
> Perhaps you are mixing up your agreements. The Telegraph is not.
I don't want this to become 'the tale of the little pipe'. How many
agreements are there? I know only of one, in which sovereignty was not
considered. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Jim Watt
"On the 12th July 2002 the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, in a formal
statement in the House of Commons, said that after twelve months of
negotiation the British Government and Spain are in broad agreement on
many of the principles that should underpin a lasting settlement of
Spain's sovereignty claim, which included the principle that Britain
and Spain should share sovereignty over Gibraltar."
Not to be confused with the trilaterial process which set aside
issues of sovereignty.
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
The operative word and intent in the above being "should", and a will on the
part of the British Government to implement shared sovereignty over
Gibraltar. This consideration does not imply a treaty nor an agreement. As I
recall it, Spain had aired the same concept, with the additional condition
that while present day Gibraltarians would be welcomed to retain their
British nationality, future newborn Gibraltarians would automatically become
Spanish Citizens. To date, no agreement on joint sovereignty has been
reached.
> Not to be confused with the trilaterial process which set aside
> issues of sovereignty.
The article in question reads, "despite the historic deal last year on
Gibraltar's future - Madrid has yet to overcome its enmity with Britain over
this tiny, rocky colony." The very poor calibre of journalism cannot even
grapple the term Agreement, instead using the term "deal". The reader can
only surmise that the inept reporter is making reference to the Cordoba
Agreement. In which case Sovereignty has not been entered to.