old picture of the border
Michael Anazapela
Couple of questions for those who remeber this disgraceful state of affairs.
Where is the actual border in this photograph? Zooming in, there's what
seems to be white brick structures with gates, behind one lies a flag - so
is that the actual border?
Secondly, did the Gibraltar authorities have any issue with people coming
right up to the border if they wanted?
Finally, a modern day question : does Gibraltar ever do exit controls? I
haven't been to Gibraltar for years, so I'm unfamiliar with the controls -
so is this correct?
Entering Gibraltar from Spain : Spanish exit passport control -> Joint
Gibraltar passport/customs control
Entering Spain from Gibraltar : Spanish passport control -> Spanish customs
control
Oh, and one more irritating (no doubt) question : anyone know what it's like
to cross the border late at night?
No doubt someone will ask why I'm asking these questions, well - I'm doing
an essay on European border controls within the EU, and the Gibraltar/Spain
border is probably the most fascinating one, especially as it seems to be
the only EU border where checks are rigorously enforced.
Thank you in advance,
Michael
Jim Watt
<mic...@rawkstar.net> wrote:
>http://www.qsl.net/ae0q/contest/gibralt2.jpg
>
>Couple of questions for those who remeber this disgraceful state of affairs.
>
>Where is the actual border in this photograph? Zooming in, there's what
>seems to be white brick structures with gates, behind one lies a flag - so
>is that the actual border?
That is of course the view we never saw, its the Spanish entry to the
frontier area. The actual frontier line is well forward, you can see
the gates, certainly their supporting structure. The building with
the curved roof is still there on the British side. Its all much the
same today, although there are new buildings in between.
>Secondly, did the Gibraltar authorities have any issue with people coming
>right up to the border if they wanted?
No, indeed, there were two sets of gates and they were opened on the
British side at one time to make the point. One could go and poke a
finger into spain.
>Finally, a modern day question : does Gibraltar ever do exit controls?
Not at the land frontier.
>Entering Gibraltar from Spain : Spanish exit passport control -> Joint
>Gibraltar passport/customs control
Certainly not 'joint' with the Spanish ! Police control look at
passports and customs ask you anything to declare.
>Entering Spain from Gibraltar : Spanish passport control -> Spanish customs
>control
Correct.
>Oh, and one more irritating (no doubt) question : anyone know what it's like
>to cross the border late at night?
Very laid back and by far the best time.
The interesting game was when it opened for pedestrian movements of
Gibraltarians and Spanish nationals only, and only one trip per day,
so if you stayed out late in Spain and went the enxt day you could not
come back until after midnight. Passports were stamped. They changed
the Spanish one quickly as it said 'frontier' and of course that might
imply that Gibraltar is a different country to Spain ...
For a view of the two sets of gates
http://www.gibinquirer.net/frontier.htm
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Ken
"Michael Anazapela" <mic...@rawkstar.net> wrote in message
news:4370ad91$0$82643$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> http://www.qsl.net/ae0q/contest/gibralt2.jpg
>
> Couple of questions for those who remeber this disgraceful state of
> affairs.
>
> Where is the actual border in this photograph? Zooming in, there's what
> seems to be white brick structures with gates, behind one lies a flag - so
> is that the actual border?
This is a view of the closed border from Spain. The border is not at these
white gates, but some yards further south. Let me orientate you. The
building with the curved roof is in Gib. Just in front of it in the picture,
at its extreme right, is a small white block hut. This is a booth in which
an immigration official might sit, to check passports (in the event of the
border being open!). There are two such booths visible through the white
gates, which are just in Spain. Take the booth on the left. To its immediate
right you can just see the end of the slope of the roof of the curved roof
building in Gib. What is stopping you from seeing the very end of the
sloping roof as it comes towards ground is a stone pillar which supports the
eastern-most set of gates that defines the border itself.
Under the highest point of the curved roof there is a small circular hut
with a red tiled roof. In this stood the Spanish sentry guard. The flat
roofed cover over the road on hte Gib side, over the extreme right end of
the white gates is the customs area within Gib.
>
> Secondly, did the Gibraltar authorities have any issue with people coming
> right up to the border if they wanted?
These white gates and their distance from gib is as far as the Sp
authorities permitted their citizens from approaching Gib. In Gib you could
go right up to the gates and as Jim suggests, you could poke whatever body
parts into Spain as you could fit between the bars of thegate or the chicken
wire fence that marks the border to the east. To the west of the gates there
is little land before you come to water and it's all military on the Gib
side.
While the Spanish gates remained shut (the Gib gates remained open
throughout) there were two principal routes into Spain from Gib and vice
versa - via the UK (by air) or via Morocco (air or ferry through Tangier).
It is said that a Sp worker, charged with painting the Sp fence, fumbled and
dropped his brush which fell into Gib, out of his reach. A Gib policeman
seeing what happened came out of the building he as in and picked it up,
asking the Sp worker if he'd like the brush back. Apparently the man said he
would, to which the policeman turned around, and walked back to his post
indoors, mumbling he could always come round via Tangier to collect it.
>
> Finally, a modern day question : does Gibraltar ever do exit controls? I
> haven't been to Gibraltar for years, so I'm unfamiliar with the controls -
> so is this correct?
not at the land crossing
>
> Entering Gibraltar from Spain : Spanish exit passport control -> Joint
> Gibraltar passport/customs control
Joint GIB passport / customs, NOT joint with Spain.
>
> Entering Spain from Gibraltar : Spanish passport control -> Spanish
> customs
> control
Yes
>
> Oh, and one more irritating (no doubt) question : anyone know what it's
> like
> to cross the border late at night?
Not me.
>
> No doubt someone will ask why I'm asking these questions, well - I'm doing
> an essay on European border controls within the EU, and the
> Gibraltar/Spain
> border is probably the most fascinating one, especially as it seems to be
> the only EU border where checks are rigorously enforced.
No need to explain yourself, though nice to know whay. Welcome to the most
highly policed border within the EU, and the shortest border in the world
too.
Ken
JIMBO
"Michael Anazapela" <mic...@rawkstar.net> wrote in message
news:4370ad91$0$82643$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
Ken
"JIMBO" <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:%JOGf.58115$0N1....@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> gg
> "Michael Anazapela" <mic...@rawkstar.net> wrote in message
> news:4370ad91$0$82643$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> http://www.qsl.net/ae0q/contest/gibralt2.jpg
>>
>> Couple of questions for those who remeber this disgraceful state of
>> affairs.
>>
>> Where is the actual border in this photograph? Zooming in, there's what
>> seems to be white brick structures with gates, behind one lies a flag -
>> so
>> is that the actual border?
The gate you zoom in on, in the middle distance about 200m more distant than
the white gate n the foreground is the line of the actual border as you
correctly surmise.
>>
>> Secondly, did the Gibraltar authorities have any issue with people coming
>> right up to the border if they wanted?
No problem at all. You could walk and cling to the chicken-wire fence and
poke your fingers and toes through it if you so wished. Your fingers and
toes would not actually be in Spain though, as the border fence when
originally erected was done so 1 yard (1 yard = 3ft = 36 inches. 1 metre =
39.4 inches, and 1 inch =2.54cm) into Gib territory, so the Sp could raise
no objections to it encroaching on Sp territory
>>
>> Finally, a modern day question : does Gibraltar ever do exit controls? I
>> haven't been to Gibraltar for years, so I'm unfamiliar with the
>> controls -
>> so is this correct?
Not that I've ever noticed
>>
>> Entering Gibraltar from Spain : Spanish exit passport control -> Joint
>> Gibraltar passport/customs control
The Gib controls are so close to each other they may indeed be considered to
be joint.
>>
>> Entering Spain from Gibraltar : Spanish passport control -> Spanish
>> customs
>> control
Yes, separated by about 20 - 30m
>>
>> Oh, and one more irritating (no doubt) question : anyone know what it's
>> like
>> to cross the border late at night?
Dark compared to daylight. Usually quieter.
>>
>> No doubt someone will ask why I'm asking these questions, well - I'm
>> doing
>> an essay on European border controls within the EU, and the
>> Gibraltar/Spain
>> border is probably the most fascinating one, especially as it seems to be
>> the only EU border where checks are rigorously enforced.
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>> Michael
Pleasure.
Ken
Daniel
> "Michael Anazapela" <mic...@rawkstar.net> wrote in message
> news:4370ad91$0$82643$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> http://www.qsl.net/ae0q/contest/gibralt2.jpg
>> doing
>> an essay on European border controls within the EU, and the
>> Gibraltar/Spain
>> border is probably the most fascinating one, especially as it seems to be
>> the only EU border where checks are rigorously enforced.
>>
You can't really compare this border with other EU borders (like the
French/Spanish border) because Gibraltar is not part of the Customs Union
(or not fully at least). That's why there is a reason why more checks can be
applied.
Daniel
Jim Watt
wrote:
There does seem to be a strong co-relation between the transit time
at the frontier and the political temperature. Are you saying thats
coincidence?
as regards 'checks' I'm not sure quite what they are looking for as
most goods are cheaper in Spain.
Daniel
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:5npsu156fnbqs14ti...@4ax.com...
Yes, yes, I know about this. What I meant to say is that, even if you take
the political issues aside, the border between Spain and Gibraltar cannot be
compared with other borders within the European Union because the legal
situation is different.
I guess they must be looking for goods which I guess are much cheaper in
Gibraltar than in Spain, maybe cigarettes?
There is a free movement of goods and people in the EU but Gibraltar is not
part of it. In addition the UK and Gibraltar are not part of the Schengen
agreement.
On top of that, you can add the perceived use of these checks for political
reasons, which I cannot deny or admit as I don't know enough about it.
I would imagine that if Gibraltar was part of the EU free trade area,
crossing the border would be easier.
And now that I think of it, which authority can decide whether Gibraltar can
be part of the EU free trade area? I guess it would be the UK government to
decide, not the Gibraltar government?
Daniel
Jim Watt
wrote:
It would be up to the Gibraltar Government to to decide as they would
need to introduce legislation to implement it, which the British
Government could not.
In practice the traffic flow at the frontier is used as a tool of
repression, and has little to do with the movement of goods.
When they Spanish wanted to cause problems they stopped every
car and inspected its paperwork and items like spare light bulbs and
warning triangles.
When the MV Aurora came into port they closed the frontier totally
to prove the point they could and to be awkward. Its their way
of showing how much they love and respect us.