Pontine Chronicles
Ken
reading. It reports on the speech / lecture delivered by Spain's Director
General for Europe, Jose Pons, at an end of term conference at the Univ
Cadiz on Friday night, 20th October.
Distilling the salient points from the discourse as reported;
There is no-one ion the Sp foreign ministry whose task it is to make matters
difficult for Gibraltar.
We are all European citizens.
Spain does not intend to impose on or bully anyone.
We must move on and away from the politics of the past lest we have the same
situation for the next 300 years as we have had to date.
We must build relationships based on trust and understanding and mutual
respect.
Gib cannot exist in a vacuum without taking account of the UK and Spain.
Spain cannot act against the will of the people of Gibraltar (he would not
go as far as calling Gibraltarians, I note).
Gibraltarians cannot be counted on, and should not be expected to want to
become, or in any case become Spaniards
He noted the work towards an airport deal, and cooperation between the ports
of Gibraltar and Algeciras.
He noted the realities of the Treaty of Utrecht that cannot be wished away
however much some would like this were so.
There is congestion at the frontier just as there is congestion everywhere
at times of increased traffic flow.
OK, FWIW, my response.
I agree with all the sentiments above. Now, who would have thought I could
ever have said that? But of course you would be foolish to think I would not
have somethng to add. Here goes.
If Spain does not intend to bully or impose herself on anyone, whatever does
he think Spain is doing when she seeks to take over control of our homeland
against our oft-expressed wishes? Is he deaf? Are they all deaf? For this
long? Show us you mean what you say here by dropping your unwelcome claim
forthwith. THAT would go the longest way towards building a relationship of
trust and understanding and mutual respect, because until Spain withdraws
irrevocably her claim, she demonstrates that she does NOT respect us nor
does she understand us, and until Sp can respect and trust us, we shall
inevitably have to continue to mistrust Spain, as we can be sure that her
motives are underpined by her continued desire to do us out of our homeland.
As regards airport deals, it's all very well and good BUT YET Spain has a
functional blockade on our airport. Why are deals needed? Recently a new
airport opened near me in S Yorkshire. No deals were necessary to have
flights connecting to anywhere and everywhere, including several Spanish
cities. Why are special deals required when Gib airport is concerned?
Spain's blockade of mobile 'phone roaming agreements needs no special deals
to remove the blockade - roaming is the norm, and a special act is required
to PREVENT it. Similarly with IDD codes.
Gib is asking nothing special for herself. If we are all Europeans as Sr
pons pontificates, Gib asks that we be treated in exactly the same way as
Spain treats any other EU territory. No special deals required for anything,
and everything operating normally. If no other Europeans need any special
deals with Spain or anyine else for their telephones, airports, cruise
terminals, ferry ports, dog shows, post, the repatriation of the deceased
etc to work as one should expect, then why do WE need a special deal for
everything? If no European agreements have any sovereignty implications for
their implementation, why do we need to have sovereignty questions dangling
over us?
Ken
Ken
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dk6c6e$mhk$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
Oh I forgot to add one other thing. Yes indeed the Treaty of Utrecht is
real, and like it or not it says what it says. BUT - and here is the very
big BUT - Spain does not HAVE to exercise her option of first refusal in the
affirmative should she ever be asked. Under the tems of the Treaty, Spain
may in any case have the RIGHT to first refusal, but nowher does it say that
it is a MANDATORY right. It is after all a right, and not an obligation.
Therefore, if the ToU so pains Spain, let her renounce it forthwith. The
Moncloa can now state if they so wish that Spain will not be bound by the
terms of the ToU of 1713, and in the event that the UK should ever seek to
divest herself of Gibraltar, Spain will NOT seek to impose her sovereignty
over it.
If she did that, then the reversionay clause would cease to be, the UK could
no longer claim the clause is an impediment to the exercising of
self-determination, and Gib can proceed with decolonisation immediately
without let or hindernace or confusion by an obfuscating larger power.
So ther we have it. All of the anomlaies and special circumstances that now
play in and because of and around Gib can be solved at the stroke of a pen -
in Madrid. Once again, despite their protestations, we see that the biggest
fly in OUR ointment, the most uncomfortable stone in OUR shoe, the largest
of the crosses that WE bear, lives in Madrid.
If they are so respectful and democratic and progressive and nice, let them
demonstrate to the world that they are so, and once and for all get off our
blessed backs.
Ken
Jim Watt
wrote:
<snip>
>If they are so respectful and democratic and progressive and nice, let them
>demonstrate to the world that they are so, and once and for all get off our
>blessed backs.
Very true - tyhis is the VOGG response to Sr Pons foot insertion
We are not amazed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When Sr Pons says "we had never been as close to an agreement as we
were at the time of the 2002 joint sovereignty negotiations." The
question is who 'we' exactly might be. Certainly not the Voice of
Gibraltar Group and not the participants in the Referendum.
History cannot be re-written, but the challenge is for the politicians
of today to create a framework for a better world tomorrow. The
Republic of Ireland can drop a territorial claim, enshrined in its
constitution. It should be by far easier for Spain to drop its
outdated claim to Gibraltar which has no prospect of success and which
would require large and dangerous changes to its own constitution
It is remarkable that the Spanish telephone network can accept a
dialing code of 376 for Andorra but not 350 for Gibraltar. It is
amazing that Sr Pons says that Spain does not engage in persecuting
the Gibraltarians, given his Government's attitude in the EU of
attempting to block anything remotely favorable to us.
But we are neither amazed, surprised or impressed. He joins the ranks
of the countless other Spanish politicians who have persistently
complained about the Finance Centre, Bunkering, Voting, MOD presence,
shipping, of late land reclamation and development. Things which
attract thousands of their fellow countrymen to queue up for work on
The Rock, and which happen despite the complaints and obstruction,
which we are now told do not exist.
What has happened about the 'Spanish cultural centre', why despite all
the 'goodwill' are aircraft movements such a problem, and what does
Spain really hope to gain from a 'deal' over a small airfield crossed
daily by thousands of vehicles where one car accident can cause chaos.
The VOGG hopes that if we are finally presented with a 'deal' of
concessions from our side against the removal of restrictions from the
other, it is not described as giving us 'peace in our time'.
ends;
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
JohnB
Ken wrote:
>
> Oh I forgot to add one other thing. Yes indeed the Treaty of Utrecht is
> real, and like it or not it says what it says. BUT - and here is the very
> big BUT - Spain does not HAVE to exercise her option of first refusal in the
> affirmative should she ever be asked. Under the tems of the Treaty, Spain
> may in any case have the RIGHT to first refusal, but nowher does it say that
> it is a MANDATORY right. It is after all a right, and not an obligation.
>
day- even the "British forever" clause is superceded by the result of
the 1967 Referendum, by which Gibraltar remains British by democratic
mandate, not ancient treaty. Self-determination supercedes such
anachronisms.
If the ToU didn't exist, Spain could try sending in the Guardia Civil,
or army, as suggested by Sr. Pons. That is called war, and would bring
forth the wrath of the rest of NATO. It would be a good excuse for the
RGP to liberate the Campo, then the RGR to liberate the rest of
Andalucia, and by the time the British Army shows up, they can liberate
the rest of Spain from Madrid. He hasn't thought that one through, has
he?
John B
www.gib-action.com
Ken
"JohnB" <jbo...@gibraltarian.com> wrote in message
news:1131031470.6...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Have any of them EVER thought anything to do with Gib through? It's all a
gut reaction, never any reasoning. This chap has at least made the right
noises, but fails to see that the cause of the problem is of Spain's own
makig. They could, overnight, solve all outstanding issues and remove all
inconsistencies. Just treat Gib like you treat Luxembourg.
Ken