Gib from Space
Larry G
don't have to download the program to see the pics. You can now see various
cities and locations around the world at Google Maps website itself,
including Gibraltar. Very cool.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.123594,-5.343604&spn=0.005139,0.006952&t=k&hl=en
Includes Gibraltar, La Línea, and Ceuta. I've always wanted to travel to Gib
and see The Rock for myself. Until that day comes, this'll have to do. It'll
be nice to put places next to descriptions. Everytime I see a pic of that
airport, scares me. Brings back memories of landing in Honolulu, beginning
the descent over the Pacific, lol.
Enjoy.
Larry
Ken
"Larry G" <thela...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dba3a1$4io$1...@domitilla.aioe.org...
Enjoy is indeed the word! This is the first time I've seen this, and Gib at
least has all levels of zoom available. Boat owners can see their boats at
moorings, and you can see your own car in a car park! Tell me, is this a pic
taken once that is referred to time and again, or is it updated? I note now
for example, perhaps coincidence, that while it is actually mid morning the
shadows correspond to this time of day.
Perhaps someone with appropriate software would care to reduce a suitable
pic to a lne drawing and make the first A-to-Z map of Gib?
Ken
Larry G
No problem. :) The photos are updated, but I'm not sure how frequently.
Certainly not daily or even weekly. I'm guessing every few months or so. For
example, the new Walmart in my town is a blank field on the photo of my
town. Still pretty neat though. :)
Larry
Jim Watt
wrote:
I can see my house, and the Gibtel earth station dish
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Lynx
A work colleague brought this site to my attention last week, and you're
absolutely right, it's fantastic. Like JW says, you can really zoom in on
Gib!
Good one!
Lynx
An accurate map of Gib might be an idea, are there any? All you can get are
these cartoon-like street directories with most alleyways and back-streets
missing!
Lynx
Some areas covering regional Victoria (Australia) have not been updated in a
very long time. Perhaps, no joke, those areas do not warrant updates, they
are populated though.
Jim Watt
>An accurate map of Gib might be an idea, are there any?
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:klvjd1pin2g0ek6pd...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:08:53 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote:
>
>>An accurate map of Gib might be an idea, are there any?
>
> www.dotcom.gi
Thnks mate, that's a pretty good site, but I'm looking for a printed map.
There's got to be one somewhere.
Cheers!
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:7BrCe.51096$oJ.3...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I've been after one too and have yet to come across one. I would like an A-Z
format. numered and lettered squares, ALL the street names in an index. It
should cover ALL of Gib - not just Main St and the bits off it. Given the
nature of Gib, an index of residential buildings by their names too. I know
it's a task, and one that needs continual updating given the rate at which
new developments take shape requiring new streets, buildings etc.
K
Larry G
I couldn't live without the Thomas Guide atlases that cover Southern
California. These are simply great. They make Mapquest, look like a
rinkydink operation. They have every street, dirt road, private road, city
boundary, even the old rancho landgrants for L.A. and divisions by zip
(postal) code, though I don't think Gib has those <g>. I wish the whole
world was covered by Thomas, which has been purchased by Rand McNally. And,
their printed, though the atlases also come with a CD-ROM.
I'm really surprised there's not a decent map given the small size of Gib.
Larry
Jim Watt
wrote:
Eddie Field produced one, it may still be on sale locally, although
is a little out of date with the new developments.
Ken
I've used Rand McNally maps when driving in the US and Canada and es,
EVERYHTHING is on the map. Makes for really easy navigating. In the UK the
"A-2-Z" brand, or maybe it's the type of map that has becme known by that
name, has become the de facto standard about town. Of course for the more
serious application there is Ordnance Survey, of which there are numerous
series and scales according to the application sought.
>
> I'm really surprised there's not a decent map given the small size of Gib.
Perhaps BECAUSE of the small size. You are local to your area as I am to
mine, yet we both have maps of our area because we will from time to time
need to or want to go to certain parts with which we are relatively
unfamiliar. In Gib everyone is likely to familiar with everywhere ir being
so small, and the tourist tends to be a day tripper who gets a taxi tour.
All he needs to know is how to get back to the coach park in time to be
returned to the Costa del Crime in time for the all-inclusive meal at the
hotel.
K
Ken
On close examination of the pic as it currently stands, observant folk might
notice (frankly, if you've too much time on your hands) that the traffic is
halted at either end of the road that crosses the runway. Observing there
are no clouds, it must be a westerly wind blowing that day. The windsock on
the runway suggests the wind was actually coming a few degrees north of true
westerly. Judging by the shadows, esp using the Sp radio mast just NE of the
windsock, it looks like 11am solar time, just around midday locally then.
Probably a Sunday given the low level of road traffic and the few coachs in
the coach park at waterport.
I reckon that at that time a commercial flight was more likely to be
arriving than just left. So, a westerly wind, on arrival, the plane should
be lined up east of the runway. If you care to take yourself to 36º 9' 14.4"
North and 5º 16' 37.2 W, you'll find one on approach!
Given its yellow hue, I'd say it was a Monarch flight rather than a GB
flight. I would think it's from Luton rather than Gatwick, as Luton flights
arrive in Gib at 11.30 on Sundays rather than 19:40 from Manchester.
Elementary. Or like I said, too much time on hands.
K
Ken
>
> "Larry G" <thela...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:dbb2lq$1o5$1...@domitilla.aioe.org...
>> "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message ...
>>>
>>> "Larry G" <thela...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:dba3a1$4io$1...@domitilla.aioe.org...
>>>> Google has added Keyhole technology in its satellite service now, but
>>>> you don't have to download the program to see the pics. You can now see
>>>> various cities and locations around the world at Google Maps website
>>>> itself, including Gibraltar. Very cool.
>>>>
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.123594,-5.343604&spn=0.005139,0.006952&t=k&hl=en
>>>>
I notice it's possible to add layers, such as road and street names. A to Z
coming up?
Is it possible (I haven't found how) to print certain layers rather than
just the whole thing?
K
Lynx
Doesn't it make you wonder, why there isn't a decent street directory? Then
we get this satellite imagery which leaves almost nothing to the
imagination.
DCC
old (colloquial) names of some of our streets and squares. El Martillo being
a prime example. We called it 'La Piazza' when I was there. A name I never
liked.
Let me throw out a test: Who knows where 'El Callejon Del Perejil' is? I
only recall my grandma using it. I guess it lost it's meaning long long
before we started using supermarkets and the likes. I'm told it was from the
days when the shop came to you rather than the other way around.
A clue...The official name is one of the longest street names on the rock
and is often mispronounced.
Your prize....A Singapore Sling at the Raffles for he who dares come to this
police state. (Airfare/Hotel not included)
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:FciCe.50567$oJ.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
DCC
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbe1np$8cl$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>>>
>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.123594,-5.343604&spn=0.005139,0.006952&t=k&hl=en
Jim Watt
there is, I told you about it.
>we get this satellite imagery which leaves almost nothing to the
>imagination.
thats what it does
DCC
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dbfl5h$1ab$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
How do I go about getting a hard-copy of this seldomly seen Gib map?
Lynx
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dbf80e$sap$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
Ken
> Or someone is at those 'magic mushrooms' they want to ban?
Imagination let loose or mushrooms, there IS a 'plane there! Have you seen
it yet?
I was asked what mushrooms were edible. I replied that all were edible, but
some species only once.
K
Ken
> Talking of maps and street names I wonder if anyone has kept a record of
> the old (colloquial) names of some of our streets and squares. El Martillo
> being a prime example. We called it 'La Piazza' when I was there. A name I
> never liked.
El Martillo - as in "The clock of the hammer has no string"
> Let me throw out a test: Who knows where 'El Callejon Del Perejil' is? I
> only recall my grandma using it. I guess it lost it's meaning long long
> before we started using supermarkets and the likes. I'm told it was from
> the days when the shop came to you rather than the other way around.
El Callejón de Perejil is in fact Victualling Office Lane, connecting what
was orinially called New Barracks Street, now Town Range (Calle Nueva, later
Calle Cuarteles) with Main St at the corner of Main St where Brian Francis
Asscoiates estate agents is, occupying premises previously held by the
Wesley House.
>
> A clue...The official name is one of the longest street names on the rock
> and is often mispronounced.
>
> Your prize....A Singapore Sling at the Raffles for he who dares come to
> this police state. (Airfare/Hotel not included)
When next - in fact, first - I'm in Singaport I'll be sure to let you know
and look you up, Sling or not.
K
Jim Watt
>How do I go about getting a hard-copy of this seldomly seen Gib map?
try the Gibraltar museum bookshop, check out their website
- google knows where.
Ken
> the old (colloquial) names of some of our streets and squares. El Martillo
> being a prime example. We called it 'La Piazza' when I was there. A name I
> never liked.
>
> Let me throw out a test: Who knows where 'El Callejon Del Perejil' is? I
> only recall my grandma using it. I guess it lost it's meaning long long
> before we started using supermarkets and the likes. I'm told it was from
> the days when the shop came to you rather than the other way around.
>
> A clue...The official name is one of the longest street names on the rock
> and is often mispronounced.
>
> Your prize....A Singapore Sling at the Raffles for he who dares come to
> this police state. (Airfare/Hotel not included)
This talk of street names reminds me of an idea I had some time ago.
Unfortunatley it did not occur to me at an opportune moment, as just after I
thought of it was when Blair started talking of joint sovereignty with Sp,
and the mood was not right.
My thought is that these old names, which are part of our heritage, will
inevitably be lost as generations pass. In only one case that I can think
of, Engineer Lane, are today's and yesteryear's(Sp) names translations. The
visiting Spaniard does his or her level best frankly, and translates the
names seen, so that Main St. is NOT referred to by it's "correct" yesteryear
name of Cale Real (menaing Royal or Regal Street) but by a translation of
Main St, Calle Principal.
Would it not be appropriate to acknowledge the pre-British period in Gib, or
at least the pre-English-is-the-dominant-language-in-Gib era, by posting
where appropriate and where known, in a plaque of lesser importance so as to
signify the non-official name, the street names that would have been used a
century or longer ago? I would perhaps go futher, and have small plaques
under the street name giving a short history of the evolution of the street
name to that of the present day, showing the various forms the street name
may have had.
For example, under the name plate for Main Street would be plaques detailing
(in relevant parts) how it was originally known. At the north end, Calle de
la Mar (remembering the sea came up to the gates at Casemates) as far as the
Cathedral, while from there south it was known as Calle del Muro. Later
these jointly became Calle Real. How the north end was known officially in
British times as Waterport St, and the south ends Southport St respectively.
The middle bit was known for a while as Church St, the entirety not being
officially Main St until 5 Aug 1913. A bit more history - how the southern
end is where it has been since 1575 when Southport Gate was built. Naturally
none of this is possible with the newer streets, many on reclaimed land,
whose history is so short it cannot be anywhere near as colourful.
Plaques could be erected on notable buildings whose historical significance
is virtually unkown, before it becomes unknown altogether. No 159 Main st is
the site of the old hermitage of La Santa Cruz. The larger church La Vera
Cruz stood where Mothercare now is. The only buildings I know of with such
information bolted to the walls are the old museum in Bomb House Lane
(previoulsy known as "La calle que va a la plazuela de don Juan Serrano"),
The Convent and King's Chapel! I had no idea that Bomb House Lane was
mentioned in an official complaint by Sp about non-adherence to the Treaty
of Utrecht in 1717 because, contrary to the terms of the Treaty, Jews were
living in Gib and had a synagogue in "La Calle de Juan de Sierra"!
I know this not because I have researched it but because someone already
has, and I take all the info from a book called The Streets of Gibraltar - a
short history, by Tito Benady. Such information DESERVES to be more widely
disseminated. It must not be left for scholars and nerds only to know about,
otherwise gathering dust on bookshelves and achieving nothing. A people know
who they are because they know where they come from, and only then can they
see where it is they might want to go. And if not already done so, Tito
Benady should have his name pinned to some or other residential building as
is the norm in Gib, with a plaque there explaining why.
Ken
Steve
looking at westside 2 only 3 of the tower blocks had been fixed. at a
guess i would say some of the snap shots are about 3 years only at
least.
Steve
Lynx
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:53:16 GMT, "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote:
>
>
>>How do I go about getting a hard-copy of this seldomly seen Gib map?
>
> try the Gibraltar museum bookshop, check out their website
> - google knows where.
I did not long ago, will do next time I get around to it. Tks.
Lynx
Escalerita Pili'.
I have to admit I did not know where the 'Callejon del Perejil' was. Another
interestingpoint is, Main Street, otherwise known as 'La Calle Real'. Which
of these two names predates the other?
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbgns7$kn4$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
DCC
It still requires some mushrooms to make out its got the Monarch livery.
Perhaps I need a new monitor or glasses or both. Or more of those mushrooms.
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbgnd9$ka9$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
DCC
I have no idea where 'El Callejon sin Sol' is.
As there appears to be no takers for my sling. The answer is Victualling
Office Lane.
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
news:qpPCe.52102$oJ.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
DCC
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbgs2u$gt7$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
DCC
I posted before I read the winning entry!
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dbhhn2$m1r$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
RockScorpion
Beaches empty so it an't May,June,July,August or Mid September.
Shadow angle would indicate January/February when the sun comes up from
South East.
Also note the lack of cars parked at the Naval Ground.
The new developement at Marina Bay is still a car park.
The extention to the Victoria Stadium hasn't been built yet.
No signs of building next to new hospital having started yet.
>
> I reckon that at that time a commercial flight was more likely to be
> arriving than just left. So, a westerly wind, on arrival, the plane should
> be lined up east of the runway. If you care to take yourself to 36º 9'
> 14.4" North and 5º 16' 37.2 W, you'll find one on approach!
>
> Given its yellow hue, I'd say it was a Monarch flight rather than a GB
> flight. I would think it's from Luton rather than Gatwick, as Luton
> flights arrive in Gib at 11.30 on Sundays rather than 19:40 from
> Manchester.
>
My brain hurts.
> Elementary. Or like I said, too much time on hands.
>
> K
>
By de way, if you like pics of gib I got some at
http://www.gibnet.gi/~gasjjgon/oldgib.html
Joe
--
The facts expressed here belong to everybody,
the opinions to me.
The distinction is yours to draw...
Lynx
'El Callejon sin Sol' is at the southern end, so to speak, of Road to the
Lines.
Can't get away from all that frikkin militaria, even the street names....
"DCC" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:dbhhn2$m1r$1...@nobel.pacific.net.sg...
Ken
> OF COURSE I can see it!
> It still requires some mushrooms to make out its got the Monarch livery.
> Perhaps I need a new monitor or glasses or both. Or more of those
> mushrooms.
Of course you can't see the Monarch livery - no-one one can from above BUT
it's not a military 'plane as it has no markings on the wings, AND Monarch
is blue and yellow whereas BA is dark blue with a touch of red, both colour
schemes on a predominantly white fuselage. This 'plane has a yellow hue in
places, making it more likely to be Monarch than anything else.
For one who is so artful, you show little imagination. :))
K
Ken
> Stop talking and do something about it!
Stop gving orders :))!
Do you think my idea has any mileage in it?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
> If you got that one right, where's 'La Escalerita del Moro' and 'La
> Escalerita Pili'.
No idea, neither listed in the book
>
> I have to admit I did not know where the 'Callejon del Perejil' was.
> Another interestingpoint is, Main Street, otherwise known as 'La Calle
> Real'. Which of these two names predates the other?
Get the book! Read the winning entry!
DCC
taking....))))
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbjdt7$ag7$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
DCC
nothing new in what you're suggesting.
Was there not some attempt at something on those lines many many years back.
I recall seeing plaques (dark blue background with white letters and the
Castle/Key CoA at the top) in quite a number of locations. Outside the RC
Cathedral, various city gates etc etc. One was so used to seeing them
around, that I cannot recall if they were still there the last time I was on
the Rock.
Sorry about the orders. Being the boss at work one thinks one can do the
same to others. Fortunately, my ego goes down the drain the moment I reach
home every evening. We know who's in charge there! She does bring me down to
earth she does.
Regarding Tito Benady, I really don't know if your suggestion is a good
idea. Having been away for a while I may have lost touch, but did he not
have a phase when he was not too popular with the natives? Was he not linked
in some way or other with the 'Doves' or something? Oh was that too long
ago to bother anyone any more?
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dbje5a$50t$1...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk...
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
> news:QCXCe.52258$oJ....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> If you got that one right, where's 'La Escalerita del Moro' and 'La
>> Escalerita Pili'.
>
> No idea, neither listed in the book
So much for the book. I'm not surprised, really. As for the above, you
should know. They both face Cumberland House, or as they are coloquially
known 'Las Casas Blnacas', at Cumberland Road.
Ken
> Perhaps you should prescribe me some of those mushrooms you must be
> taking....))))
Oh they're not available on prescription, bubbly fish phtang phtang. Several
interesting varieties can be found in many early aviation rhubarb forests,
growing in shady full-length body lycra spots. As it happens I have never
eaten any, and the gases equally have noooooooooooo effect whoa neddy!
whatsoever.
Ken
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Ah yes. Unfortunatley no longer there. BTW have you found the churreria at
Cumberland Road on the sat pic yet?
Ken
Ken
> Certainly! Lots of miles! You see similar things in many a historic city.
> So nothing new in what you're suggesting.
>
> Was there not some attempt at something on those lines many many years
> back.
> I recall seeing plaques (dark blue background with white letters and the
> Castle/Key CoA at the top) in quite a number of locations. Outside the RC
> Cathedral, various city gates etc etc. One was so used to seeing them
> around, that I cannot recall if they were still there the last time I was
> on the Rock.
Oh they are indeed, but are relatively few and far between. They tend to
concern themselves with Big History rather than Little Heritage though
>
> Sorry about the orders. Being the boss at work one thinks one can do the
> same to others. Fortunately, my ego goes down the drain the moment I reach
> home every evening. We know who's in charge there! She does bring me down
> to earth she does.
There is an acronym I've seen for "wife" or "her indoors" as Arthur Daly
used to refer to his as, in other newsgroups. It is a direct quote from the
film She (Ursula Andres), in the manner in which she was referred to by her
subjects and later on taken by Rumpole (of the Bailey) - SWMBO, or She Who
Must Be Obeyed.
>
> Regarding Tito Benady, I really don't know if your suggestion is a good
> idea. Having been away for a while I may have lost touch, but did he not
> have a phase when he was not too popular with the natives? Was he not
> linked in some way or other with the 'Doves' or something? Oh was that
> too long ago to bother anyone any more?
I can't recall if he was one or not. Gib being the place it is the doves
have been rehabilitated, some to an enormous extent.
jim.gm4dhj
> A work colleague brought this site to my attention last week, and you're
> absolutely right, it's fantastic. Like JW says, you can really zoom in on
> Gib!
> Good one!
>
Yip....much better than being there........
Lynx
No, but that churreria's has a rather interesting history. When I used to
visit with more frequency, I'd find it was no longer operating, on
subsequent visits, it'd be open again. At one stage it was totally
abandoned! How dare they, abandon a churreria! Jokes aside, I rmember as a
kid being drawn to the place by the smell of that oil and those fritters
sizzling and waiting to be devoured, with a cup of coffee and some suger of
course!
On account of my visits to Spain I also developed a taste for their hot
chocolate. At 1AM a hot chocolate with churros does wonders! I miss that.
Lynx
"jim.gm4dhj" <jim.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:SZFDe.2608$Cu3....@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
By the feedback I'm getting, especially rom JW, I think you might just be
right. Next time I visit Gib I'll do so incognito!
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
I prefer churros with coffee, being a dyed-in-the-wool Janito who likes
Saturday mornings at the Piazza (Dennis - The Hammer).
Ken
jim.gm4dhj
>>>
>> Yip....much better than being there........
>
>
me.....glad I never visited the radio club in all the times I visited.....
Lynx
You've had the misfortune of knowing him better than I do. I get the
impression he means well, but can be a hard nut to crack!
Lynx
Agreed. Churros are not only enjoyable because they're great. I think they
also re-connect us with our past and gives us a sense or continuum like few
simple things can do. Don't get me started on the Hammer and La Piazza. I
remember when La Piazza was opened. There in our midst was a relation of its
'designer'. The people were so put off by the much drummed-up Piazza, this
fellow didn't want to be known as being related to the designer!
The place will always be known as El Martillo, like it or not. We are not
Italians anymore than the Spaniards are Italians. There being,
proportionately even, more Genoese and Italian descendants in Spain than in
Gib. This business of our Genoese ancestry is an absolute farce. Long live
Los Churros!
jim.gm4dhj
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Lynx
Yeah, but a persistent one. Ever tried cracking a macadamian nut?
jim.gm4dhj
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Of course we are not Italians. When our ancestors came to Gib there was not
even an Italy - that happened over 100 years later when Garibaldi came on
the scene, united the various bits of the peninsula to make Italy, while at
the same time making some very nice biscuits that look as if they have dead
flies in them to boot. TO BOOT! Italy, the shape of a boot! Ha! Never mind.
The Genoese bit of ancestry is not a farce - it's a fact.
Ken
Ken
Softie northerners! In your parts I presume the most popular nut is the one
that has no shell. Not that you buy it already shelled, but that it is in
fact the only nut that has no shell at all. Any ideas?
K
jim.gm4dhj
Ken
It matches your healthy vegetarian diet of deep fried Mars bars and Irn Bru.
Doughnuts.
K
jim.gm4dhj
>> no.....
>
> It matches your healthy vegetarian diet of deep fried Mars bars and Irn
> Bru. Doughnuts.
>
> K
>
Ken
I'm not. OTOH churros are ONE exrtavagance in this direction in an otherwise
healthy diet which also inlcudes loads of beneficial ingredients.
Glaswegians are known for one of the most fatty diets in Europe (second only
to some parts of Finland), have the worst cardiovascular disease rates in
Europe, have the worst dental health in all of Europe, have among the
highest cancer rates in Europe.
While in Gib there is "space" for churros in the diet, you obviously need to
eliminate deep fried pizza (the nearest you get to Mediterranean food) in
yours.
K
Lynx
Just as well. Let me tell you, if you hit a macadamia nut with a hammer,
chances are the hammer will bounce. The Aborigines used to heat these nut on
the fire, only then can they be cracked. The principal is used nowadays in
the industry.
Whereabouts are you?
Lynx
Hey Jock! If you reply to Ken's, next thing you know he'll write up a thesis
on fatty diets and......
Lynx
Yes, the Genoese, the Irish, the Portuguese, Spanish, English, Sephards,
Maltese, Catalans, there're Spanish anyway. I'm sure there're some others
I've forgotten, French perhaps? What is a nationality? What's a Genoese? An
Italian by another name? What's an Italian, a descendant of the Greeks? If
we trace our ancestry, we'd probably go all the way back to Iberians or
natives of what is now known as Russia.
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Hang on, what are you saying? All people are Spanish? Rubbish! OTOH are you
saying that fundamentally we're all the same? Yes. But on different levels.
Bilogically we are all unique individuals. At the same time bilogically we
all have far more in common to unite us than we have different to separate
us. Where we choose to draw boundaires is of course arbitrary. A manner of
dividing - or grouping, depending on your perspectives and motives is
according to the place of their birth within national boundaries. Surely
THAT does not need explaining?
K
RockScorpion
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Googled this at http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/sap.htm
The origin of modern Homo sapiens is not yet resolved. Two extreme scenarios
have been proposed. According to the first, the distribution of anatomical
traits in modern human populations in different regions was inherited from
local populations of Homo erectus and intermediate "archaic" forms. This
"Multiregional Hypothesis" states that all modern humans evolved in parallel
from earlier populations in Africa, Europe and Asia, with some genetic
intermixing among these regions. Support for this comes from the similarity
of certain minor anatomical structures in modern human populations and
preceding populations of Homo erectus in the same regions.
A different model proposes that a small, relatively isolated population of
early humans evolved into modern Homo sapiens, and that this population
succeeded in spreading across Africa, Europe, and Asia -- displacing and
eventually replacing all other early human populations as they spread. In
this scenario the variation among modern populations is a recent phenomenon.
Part of the evidence to support this theory comes from molecular biology,
especially studies of the diversity and mutation rate of nuclear DNA and
mitochondrial DNA in living human cells.From these studies an approximate
time of divergence from the common ancestor of all modern human populations
can be calculated. This research has typically yielded dates around 200,000
years ago, too young for the "Multiregional Hypothesis." Molecular methods
have also tended to point to an African origin for all modern humans,
implying that the ancestral population of all living people migrated from
Africa to other parts of the world -- thus the name of this interpretation:
the "Out of Africa Hypothesis."
Whichever model (if either) is correct, the oldest fossil evidence for
anatomically modern humans is about 130,000 years old in Africa, and there
is evidence for modern humans in the Near East sometime before 90,000 years
ago.
Joe
--
The facts expressed here belong to everybody,
the opinions to me.
The distinction is yours to draw...
jim.gm4dhj
>
> Hey Jock! If you reply to Ken's, next thing you know he'll write up a
> thesis on fatty diets and......
>
don't worry about it I have just came down from 17 stone to 14 stone by
eating well and getting plenty of exercise....thank you all for your
concern.....just another two stone to go and I will be better than a
Gibite......they all drink cheap booze and smoke cheap fags........or just
cheap booze in JW's case......
Ken
>
>>
>> Hey Jock! If you reply to Ken's, next thing you know he'll write up a
>> thesis on fatty diets and......
>>
> G'day Blue............
> don't worry about it I have just came down from 17 stone to 14 stone by
> eating well and getting plenty of exercise....
Well done! No, seriously, very well done indeed. Congrats.
> thank you all for your concern.....just another two stone to go and I will
> be better than a Gibite......
You may be LIGHTER than some, but BETTER? At what?
K
jim.gm4dhj
>
> I'm not. OTOH churros are ONE exrtavagance in this direction in an
> otherwise healthy diet which also inlcudes loads of beneficial
> ingredients. Glaswegians are known for one of the most fatty diets in
> Europe (second only to some parts of Finland), have the worst
> cardiovascular disease rates in Europe, have the worst dental health in
> all of Europe, have among the highest cancer rates in Europe.
>
> While in Gib there is "space" for churros in the diet, you obviously need
> to eliminate deep fried pizza (the nearest you get to Mediterranean food)
> in yours.
>
> K
>
Gibraltar......
jim.gm4dhj
>
>> thank you all for your concern.....just another two stone to go and I
>> will be better than a Gibite......
>
> You may be LIGHTER than some, but BETTER? At what?
>
> K
>
jim.gm4dhj
repulsive piece of work going.....
Jim Watt
wrote:
>Softie northerners! In your parts I presume the most popular nut is the one
>that has no shell. Not that you buy it already shelled, but that it is in
>fact the only nut that has no shell at all. Any ideas?
I bought some stainless steel nuts recently, they had no shell,
however if you are talking about a nut you can reasonable eat
it sounds like a case of the coconut ... I would say that in Spanish
but it might set a precedent.
--
Jim Watt
http://www.gibnet.com
Ken
As opposed to having someone else's teeth, I suppose?
Ken
Oh there is plenty of scope for criticism in all sorts of things. Just that
when it comes to markers of general health and lifestyle Glasgow is not best
placed to be an exemplar.
K
Ken
"Jim Watt" <jim...@aol.no_way> wrote in message
news:r9d5e1tnnpk3c2b52...@4ax.com...
Indeed you are correct Jim - and in so pointing it out you illustrate to
Mano that you do in fact have a working command of the vernacular.
K
Jim Watt
wrote:
>
I know how he could loose a few kilos of ugly fat in one
stroke.
jim.gm4dhj
>
> I know how he could loose a few kilos of ugly fat in one
> stroke.
>
> --
> Jim Watt
come to Gib and throw you off The top of Rock? ..... .
jim.gm4dhj
> > sorry I should have known there is no scope for criticism when it comes
to
> > Gibraltar......
>
> Oh there is plenty of scope for criticism in all sorts of things. Just
that
> when it comes to markers of general health and lifestyle Glasgow is not
best
> placed to be an exemplar.
>
> K
>
>
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
> news:zovEe.59956$oJ.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Maltese, Catalans, there're Spanish anyway. I'm sure there're some others
>> I've forgotten, French perhaps? What is a nationality? What's a Genoese?
>> An Italian by another name? What's an Italian, a descendant of the
>> Greeks? If we trace our ancestry, we'd probably go all the way back to
>> Iberians or natives of what is now known as Russia.
>
> Hang on, what are you saying? All people are Spanish? Rubbish! OTOH are
> you saying that fundamentally we're all the same? Yes. But on different
> levels. Bilogically we are all unique individuals. At the same time
> bilogically we all have far more in common to unite us than we have
> different to separate us. Where we choose to draw boundaires is of course
> arbitrary. A manner of dividing - or grouping, depending on your
> perspectives and motives is according to the place of their birth within
> national boundaries. Surely THAT does not need explaining?
Of course not, I was referring to the Catalans. I should have made that
observation clearer, but didn't think it necessary!
Have you ever considered how shallow the argument, often put forward by
some, that we are of this or that origin? All of the 'ancestral
Gibraltarian' surnames can be found in Spain. The argument that we are of
Genoese, Maltese, etc. origin runs hollow.
Lynx
"RockScorpion" <area...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8tOdndNOpZJ...@giganews.com...
Interesting stuff. That website's interesting too. I was originally making
reference to recorded historical fact. Which obviously does not go back to
the origins of the species. The Etruscans are an interesting lot too.
Lynx
Are you suggesting he's as tight as a fish's..........? Never!
Lynx
Nasty..........
jim.gm4dhj
>
> Whereabouts are you?
>
>
who me ? ..........
Lynx
Gib's smoking habits and related matters is a topic K should post one of his
thesis on.
Lynx
I think that's an unwritten rule. I dare think.
Lynx
>
>>
>> Whereabouts are you?
>>
>>
> who me ? ..........
Yep, but now I know, Scotty!
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Many surnames in Gib can be found in Spain, but I doubt if all of them can
be. You say ancestral - how far back? Are ALL the originally Genoese
surnames in Gib ALSO to be found in Spain? You will be aware how some of
these names were misspelt into their Sp equivalents (e.g. Baglietto becomes
Balleto). Do BOTH forms survive anywhere in Spain? Were they ever there? How
great is Maltese influence in Spain? How about those originally UK names
that came to be in Gib as the result of the Boer War? Hopw about those that
came to be in Gib by means oif retiring UK servicemen staying in Gib? All
these are ancestral to a greater or lesser extent. And the Indian names? The
Moroccan?
K
Ken
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Harsh - but fair, I'd say.
K
jim.gm4dhj
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Lynx
Original UK names can be found in Andalusia. The infamous Francis Drake
might have left a few calling cards, following his raiding of monasteries.
Hoarding barrels of the much valued Jerez (Jerez burnt on the barrels), only
to corrupt the word to Sherry. Sherry, Spaniard, dago, all legal words of
the English language, you understand.
Misspelling of names, by uncouth, uneducated registrars, unable to pronounce
Latin names, not to mention spell them, is most probably the cause of these
misspellings. I am told by Ukrainians who survived the war, that their names
were misspelled (corrupted) by German officers who could not translate their
family names. So it might have been in Gib. Tracing one's linage by the
paternal family name can be a mistake. We often forget our linage on the
maternal side.
Lynx
Harsh and nasty......
Lynx
Hey! Are you sure you're not Aussie?
DCC
"Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dc0ola$pk2$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
RockScorpion
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Weren't they pre-Roman tribes that the Romans knocked off?
In any case, whatever the theory about the origins of our species, the fact
is that we are all related genetically,
the rest is environment and pure tribalism.
If your'e into this sort of thing I thoroughly recommend "The Naked Ape" and
"The Human Zoo" by
Desmond Morris. The later book gives quite an insight in human behaviour
that goes to
explaining why the human race is in the state it's in!
And considering our close connection with the sea, maybe this is more
significant!!;)
http://www.primitivism.com/aquatic-ape.htm
Joe
--
The facts expressed here belong to everybody,
the opinions to me.
The distinction is yours to draw...
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
> news:4jQEe.61643$oJ.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> making reference to recorded historical fact. Which obviously does not go
>> back to the origins of the species. The Etruscans are an interesting lot
>> too.
>>
>
> Weren't they pre-Roman tribes that the Romans knocked off?
Yes, but not sure whether they were knocked off, or intermaried with the
'wo-mans'. the interesting thing is that it appears Etruscans originally
came from northern Greece, having been pushed out by the north-eastern
hordes.
> In any case, whatever the theory about the origins of our species, the
> fact is that we are all related genetically,
> the rest is environment and pure tribalism.
I want to beleive that, but how can anyone species develop so differently in
appearances and habits? I do hold the beleive that we are one human race.
> If your'e into this sort of thing I thoroughly recommend "The Naked Ape"
> and "The Human Zoo" by
> Desmond Morris. The later book gives quite an insight in human behaviour
> that goes to
> explaining why the human race is in the state it's in!
>
> And considering our close connection with the sea, maybe this is more
> significant!!;)
Yes, I am into this sort of thing and history in general. Thanks for
mentioning these books, I will check them out. Life must have developed from
the sea initially. There is no other 'soup' from which life could have
evolved, I'd say.
RockScorpion
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
>
> "RockScorpion" <area...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:GqWdnWqHi5C...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
>> news:4jQEe.61643$oJ.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> Interesting stuff. That website's interesting too. I was originally
>>> making reference to recorded historical fact. Which obviously does not
>>> go back to the origins of the species. The Etruscans are an interesting
>>> lot too.
>>>
>>
>> Weren't they pre-Roman tribes that the Romans knocked off?
>
> Yes, but not sure whether they were knocked off, or intermaried with the
> 'wo-mans'. the interesting thing is that it appears Etruscans originally
> came from northern Greece, having been pushed out by the north-eastern
> hordes.
>
>> In any case, whatever the theory about the origins of our species, the
>> fact is that we are all related genetically,
>> the rest is environment and pure tribalism.
>
> I want to beleive that, but how can anyone species develop so differently
> in appearances and habits? I do hold the beleive that we are one human
> race.
>
My Theory No 1:
Given that the average lifespan in pre-history was relatively low
(25-35years?), it therefore follows that there
were more "Generations" born in comparison to today.
It therefore may follow that physical adaption to differing environments
would have been quicker.
The high mortality rate would have ensured that only those best adapted
would survive to reproduce.
Hence physical diversity would appeared quite quickly.
MytheoryNo 2:
I believe that basic social behavior came about more as a means of survival
than anything else.
Co-operation/working as a group offered great benefits to a species that
should have been easy prey
for the many predators around,instead we became the most lethal (and
succesful) predator on the planet!
The archeological records seem to suggest that entire species like the
Woolly Mamoths were hunted to extiction
by humans, just a few thousands of years after the appearance of "modern
man", not bad going when you consider the
world population was then probably a few hundred thousand (and spread out
all over the place!)
>> If your'e into this sort of thing I thoroughly recommend "The Naked Ape"
>> and "The Human Zoo" by
>> Desmond Morris. The later book gives quite an insight in human behaviour
>> that goes to
>> explaining why the human race is in the state it's in!
>>
>> And considering our close connection with the sea, maybe this is more
>> significant!!;)
>
> Yes, I am into this sort of thing and history in general. Thanks for
> mentioning these books, I will check them out. Life must have developed
> from the sea initially. There is no other 'soup' from which life could
> have evolved, I'd say.
>
And you'd be right, which explains why astronomers get so excited when they
find water anywhere other than
on our dear old "Gaia".
No liquid water = negligible chance of any carbon based forms "forming".
BTW, on a curious footnote on evolution, did you know that it is believed
that whales may be related to sheep, pigs, deer, camels, and cows !?!
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/whales/classification/Whalefossils.shtml
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/03/4/l_034_05.html
God knows how we'll end up, if we survive the next ice age that is....
Joe
--
PLEASE NOTE:
Some quantum physics theories suggest
that when the recipient of this email is not
directly observing this product, it may
cease to exist or will exist only in a vague
and undetermined state.
Lynx
I am collating these url's you're posting. On a quiet, cold and rainy day,
of which we are having more than our share lately, I'll go through them all,
and READ!
On our species, and a little closer to our age in the scale of our
evolution, it strikes me that cultures like the Egytian and some Central and
South American cultures should have such distinct similarities.
Mummification, pyramids and the mode of water transport should be so much
alike at both sides of the Atlantic is trully amazing. On mammals, it is
interesting, from my perspective at any rate, that dolphins (for example)
should appear to be so familiar, affectionate even, towards us humans. There
must be some linkage which plays and manifests itself through our instincts.
Of course, there are some exemption to the rule, as the Japanese prove time
and again.
RockScorpion
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
http://www.wwnorton.com/college/history/worldciv/referenc/wrldtime.htm
I don't know if you're aware of the timelines(see above), but there is a
near 3,000 year gap between the construction of the first great pyramid
tombs in Egypt (2630-2611 BC), and the South American Stone Temples (1-250
AD) http://www.differentworld.com/mexico/places/mexico_city/teotihuacan.htm
It is interesting to not that "mound building" was around as a worldwide
custom before any stone construction appeared, could these great works in
stone then be an extention of this ancient practice?
If so, then it should really be no surprise that several civilisations have
built pyramidal structures, from Egypt, Babylon, India have all constructed
variations on the theme. In fact, the South American "Pyramids" have more
similarity with the stepped Babylonian Ziggurat than Egyptian Pyramids,
which went thru'a succession of disasters and modifications (Djoser's
"BentPyramid") http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/meidump.htm before
the first "true"pyramid was built (The Great Pyramid of Khufu)
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/greatpyramid1.htm
As for water transport/irrigation, I think that the South/CentralAmericans
may have had the edge over the Egyptians on this one,mainly because they had
markedly different terrain, Mountains,versus the great plains of Egypt. Any
water system will, by it's nature be a variation of terrain, technical
advancement e.g. canals, reservoirs and drains.
I think that we should not underestimate the abillity of different
civilisations who have solved problems of a similar nature in a similar way.
Take sea travel for instance, Chinese "Junks" were comparable to any of the
equivalent western Tall Ships, there are even theories that the Chinese may
have been to the Americas before Colombus, We know the Vikings definately
did (despite whatever our neighbours across the border may claim!).
>On mammals, it is interesting, from my perspective at any rate, that
>dolphins (for example) should appear to be so familiar, affectionate even,
>towards us humans. There must be some linkage which plays and manifests
>itself through our instincts. Of course, there are some exemption to the
>rule, as the Japanese prove time and again.
>
>
Dolphins, yes, I wonder who's more intelligent, the human trainers at
aquariums,or the dolphins who have learned to train the humans to give them
fish in exchange for a few party tricks ;)
Cheers
Lynx
Agreed, there are immeasurable wonders around the world, and these are the
ones that have survived. Some, as we know are hidden under the sea. I recall
years ago while on a short stop at Cadiz, seeing there what looked like
ruins, only they were mostly submerged,but visible in low tide.
The similarity between the American Indian and the Chinese are many. Their
appearance, skin. Even their music, if you take note of the similarities in
panflute sounds and some Chinese/Japanese flute music. Also the American
Indian chanting has something of the Chinese sound to it. So whichever way
we look at it, it does seem like the Chinese where there way before the
Europeans.
Columbus' claimed by several nations as their prodigious son. Even his tomb
in Seville's Cathedral's come under, genetic, investigation. The Vikings are
said to have been there first, true, but I'm not sure they colonized the
place. Then, it's a pretty big place. Maybe the Vikings were ahead of their
time.
On animal intelligence, I hear that if extraterrestrials were to come to
earth looking to communicate with someone, they'd choose the dolphins over
humans. Then again, they say cats were sent to Earth in search of
intelligence. They're still looking.
RockScorpion
"Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
Sea levels have varied quite a bit over millenia, there are numerous
submerged settlementsall over the world.
I recall several "Time Team" episodes on the History channel where they have
investigated places where harbours and small settlements have succumbed to
the risig seas.
One of the most famous submerged areas is the city of Alexandria/Cairo where
Cleopatra's palaces once stood above water.
> The similarity between the American Indian and the Chinese are many. Their
> appearance, skin. Even their music, if you take note of the similarities
> in panflute sounds and some Chinese/Japanese flute music. Also the
> American Indian chanting has something of the Chinese sound to it. So
> whichever way we look at it, it does seem like the Chinese where there way
> before the Europeans.
If your talking about prehistory, then there is definate evidence of human
migration over the Bering Straits, which would explain the native american
cultures Asian similarities.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/m/mo/models_of_migration_to_the_new_world.htm
But I was refering to the more recent claims that the Chinese "discovered"
the American Continent 70 years before Colombus
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/24/features/chinam.php
>
> Columbus' claimed by several nations as their prodigious son. Even his
> tomb in Seville's Cathedral's come under, genetic, investigation. The
> Vikings are said to have been there first, true, but I'm not sure they
> colonized the place. Then, it's a pretty big place. Maybe the Vikings were
> ahead of their time.
They were ahead of Colombus,and possibly the Chinese,anyway...
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/vikings/vikingnw.html
>
> On animal intelligence, I hear that if extraterrestrials were to come to
> earth looking to communicate with someone, they'd choose the dolphins over
> humans. Then again, they say cats were sent to Earth in search of
> intelligence. They're still looking.
>
LOL
Have you considered joining the SETI program?
http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/index.php
Gib is currently ranked 149th out of 221 countries, I'm currently 38,639th
out of 363,086! Yay me!;)
Personally I think they're hiding, there's a couple of people at work I'm
sure are aliens <g>
Joe
--
NOTICE: Because of the "uncertainty principle,"
it is impossible for the sender to find out at the
same time both precisely where this email is and
how fast it is moving.
Lynx
>
> "Lynx" <M...@home.tranquilo> wrote in message
> news:2lYFe.64784$oJ.2...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> submerged settlementsall over the world.
>
> I recall several "Time Team" episodes on the History channel where they
> have investigated places where harbours and small settlements have
> succumbed to the risig seas.
> One of the most famous submerged areas is the city of Alexandria/Cairo
> where Cleopatra's palaces once stood above water.
Absolutely. The sea has indeed claimed many lost wonders and landmarks. I
think they're trying to retreive fragments of the colosus of Rhode(?)
We should also bear in mind that entire ancient cities rest under our very
feet. You're not far from Cordoba, have you seen Italica? If/when you do,
the original Roman city rests under the surrounding dwellings and farmland.
Interesting.
> If your talking about prehistory, then there is definate evidence of human
> migration over the Bering Straits, which would explain the native american
> cultures Asian similarities.
Yes. Every day I come across numerous people from Asia (Chinese) and Sth
America, and I cannot but notice their high cheek bones, which really sets
them aside from most other races. Not only that, but their physical stature,
etc. Although they are obviously different, the similarities are still many.
One other common feature is their placidness.
> But I was refering to the more recent claims that the Chinese "discovered"
> the American Continent 70 years before Colombus
I haven't read about this, but it wouldn't surprise me. One should remember
that China was a powerful and highly developed nation. They had the means
and knowhow to have ventured towards Africa, and no doubt could have made
their way to Europe. But theirs was an inward-looking culture. They were
obsesed with maintaining their values, and literally cut themselves from the
rest of the world. You wonder why!
> They were ahead of Colombus,and possibly the Chinese,anyway...
Colombus, it appears, had charted maps of regions 'yet to be discovered'.
Don't know how true this theory is, but it's another school of thought.
Whether Colobus was or not the discoverer of the new world, it has to be
acknowledged that it wasn't until his 'discovery' that Europeans became
aware of its existance. One can wonder whether others in the West had prior
knowledge but kept it a 'secret'.
> Have you considered joining the SETI program?
> Gib is currently ranked 149th out of 221 countries, I'm currently
> 38,639th out of 363,086! Yay me!;)
>
> Personally I think they're hiding, there's a couple of people at work I'm
> sure are aliens <g>
Have colated all url's and will be checking them out in the next few days.
I'll be off duty!
Well! Checked out SETI looks interesting, will sus it out thoroughly, it
looks good.
You must have heard an interview on BBC days ago, where this English fellow,
who broke into some States security system. Anyway, it seems that the UK are
considering extraditing him to the US. He's facing prison term. In the
interview he stated that he was convinced aliens had crashed to Earth, their
advanced technology now in the hands of a few. His point was that this
technology could be applied to better the world.
Cheers,
Mano