Questions about Death in 1880
Dani
he re-marry? Especially if there were little ones still around (younger than
ten in age and about 4 or 5 of them)? What would he do with the younguns?
Send them to relatives? What was typical about this kind of situation? If
you could call this a typical situation, that is.
Just trying to figure out a path to follow to break down a brick wall.
Thanks,
Danielle
dt...@yahoo.com
The Simmons Family
"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ZZc9f.131814$7b6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Huntersglenn
two years, and examples where he sent his children to relatives, but
then married later, and with my husband's family, one man never
remarried, but lived with his sister and one young son, while having
sent his young daughter off to live with his eldest daughter and her
husband.
I'd think that what he would do would be dependent on what was normally
done in the area where he lived, or his culture, or religion considered
to be the right thing to do. If he had a lot of family living around
him, then he might be more inclined to keep the children with him and
look for a new wife rather quickly, someone who most likely would either
be a relative of his deceased wife, or a woman in the neighborhood. If
he didn't have a strong supportive family living around him, then he
might be more inclined to send the children to relatives, thinking that
they'd be well cared for.
A lot of people here love genealogical mysteries, so if you wouldn't
mind sharing the details on your brick wall, I'm sure you'd get plenty
of replies <grin>.
Cathy
Doug Chadduck
Did the wife have unmarried sisters? I've seen that happen.
Neighbors with marriage age unmarried daughters?
Need lots more info but many scenerios possible.
Pat...@aol.com
In a message dated 10/30/2005 7:41:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
no...@nowhere.com writes:
If a man's wife died (back in about 1880 or so) in the United States, would
he re-marry? Especially if there were little ones still around (younger than
ten in age and about 4 or 5 of them)? What would he do with the younguns?
Send them to relatives? What was typical about this kind of situation? If
you could call this a typical situation, that is.
I had one whose wife died and his sister moved in and took care of the
family. In another case, he and the children moved in with his parents.
James A. Doemer
typed this:
> In a message dated 10/30/2005 7:41:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> no...@nowhere.com writes:
>
> If a man's wife died (back in about 1880 or so) in the United
> States, would he re-marry? Especially if there were little ones
> still around (younger than
He would more than likely try ti re-marry.
>
> ten in age and about 4 or 5 of them)? What would he do with the
> younguns? Send them to relatives? What was typical about this kind of
> situation? If you could call this a typical situation, that is.
I would say that there is no across the board typical situation. If he were
a farmer, he would more than likely need to keep the children to help run
the farm. If not, then a lot might depend on how old the children were.
My great grandmother died when my grandmother was twelve. She was the
oldest child in the home and found herself raising her younger siblings
while her father, who was a Lumberjack, was away. If all the children were
real young, then the father would probably have to send them to relatives,
or hire a live in caregiver if he could afford to do so. Any number of
possible circumstances comes to mind.
Mary_...@tvo.org
I have a lot of ancestors who were in Southern Ontario in the 1780's
through 1900 working as farmers. Its amazing how many spouses many of
them went through due to deaths (keeping in mind the average lifespan
even in 1900 was about 45). Many people in my tree were married three
times, and had children with each spouse....who often also often
brought children from other marriages to the blended family.
In an agrarian society, you NEEDED a spouse for survival, particularly
with the large numbers of children most people had. I mean, can you
imagine being a farmer or a farm wife with maybe 7 or 8 children 10 and
under, and losing your husband or wife? You'd be in big trouble in
terms of being able to hold everything together so everyone could
survive. No wife..who was going to do the cooking, the cleaning, the
child rearing, run the chicken coop and the vegetable garden, put up
the preserves for the winter, knit the socks, sew the clothes, etc.
etc. etc. No husband, and who was going to chop the wood, plow the
fields, bale the hay, build the new barn, clear the bottom 40 acres,
bring in the crops etc. etc. Everyone's survival hinged on the work
getting done on both sides of the tradition set of roles.
I don't think it was terribly romantic, and I don't think they had
enough choice in terms of potential candidates to worry about soul
mates. Given how fast they seem to have remarried (at least many in my
tree), I think that being a similar age, healthy, similar religion and
ethnicity if possible, hey, more than good enough.
Mary G.
Dani
They were from New Mexico Territory. He was white (or German, if you will)
and she was Mexican. I do know she had sisters, but I do not know their
names or anything about them. Having a hard enough time trying to track down
the original death dates of the couple as it is.... Yes he was a farmer. I'm
not sure how old the kids were, but she was pregnant with their 5th one when
she died. It was an accidental death by (rumour alert, lol) - being shot by
one of her own children. So I know of only two of their kids, but can't find
the others. He spoke German, she spoke Spanish and they both spoke English
and Americanized their children and were of the Catholic faith.
Phew!
So... In trying to place the death of the wife... Well, I have a birth date
of 1873 for their daughter and 1875 for one of their sons. So give or take
ten years, right? 1885 or so? She had the two kids in Texas, though, so I
can't figure out if she died in New Mexico or Texas and whether they were
older or younger than their un-named siblings. I would post the name, but
since many a descendant is named after him, all you'll come up with is with
their information, lol. And I absolutely cannot find his death date, either.
I haven't even found them on a census yet. Sucks! LOL I *hate* brick walls.
\
Oh well,
Thanks!
Danielle
dt...@yahoo.com
"Dani" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ZZc9f.131814$7b6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Mary_...@tvo.org
M
Jane
> Remarry, you betcha.
>
> I have a lot of ancestors who were in Southern Ontario in the 1780's
> through 1900 working as farmers. Its amazing how many spouses many of
> them went through due to deaths (keeping in mind the average lifespan
> even in 1900 was about 45). Many people in my tree were married three
> times, and had children with each spouse....who often also often
> brought children from other marriages to the blended family.
>
My fathr's family were mostly around the Napanee area during the same time
period, and also were farmers. You're right in saying they usually remarried
after the death of a spouse.
> In an agrarian society, you NEEDED a spouse for survival, particularly
> with the large numbers of children most people had. I mean, can you
> imagine being a farmer or a farm wife with maybe 7 or 8 children 10
> and under, and losing your husband or wife? You'd be in big trouble in
> terms of being able to hold everything together so everyone could
> survive. No wife..who was going to do the cooking, the cleaning, the
> child rearing, run the chicken coop and the vegetable garden, put up
> the preserves for the winter, knit the socks, sew the clothes, etc.
> etc. etc. No husband, and who was going to chop the wood, plow the
> fields, bale the hay, build the new barn, clear the bottom 40 acres,
> bring in the crops etc. etc. Everyone's survival hinged on the work
> getting done on both sides of the tradition set of roles.
>
> I don't think it was terribly romantic, and I don't think they had
> enough choice in terms of potential candidates to worry about soul
> mates. Given how fast they seem to have remarried (at least many in my
> tree), I think that being a similar age, healthy, similar religion and
> ethnicity if possible, hey, more than good enough.
>
You also notice a lot of marriages where several brothers and sisters in one
family married sisters and brothers in another, and cases where second
cousins married. There really wasn't a very big pool of eligible candidates
in and around the small arming communities.
Jane
Dani
news:1130884821.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Give us the details so maybe someone out there can help!
>
> M
Okay, then. Here goes:
Daniel Hessbrook/Hesbrook and Juanita Torres are the couple I'm lookin' for.
All I have right now on them are the death certificates of two of their
children stating their names. I just sent off for his civil war record and
hope to receive that by Christmas. I have absolutely nothing on Juanita -
zip zero nada. Currently have an email out with genifo at Texas state
library to see if they have their deaths in any of their death indexes prior
to 1956. Crossing my fingers on that search! Geninfo has been good to me, so
hopefully they can find 'em.
I got their names originally from my great-grandmother right before she
died. She told me what she could of them, but being the youngest of 12
children of just their daughter Helena Hessbrook Falcon, she couldn't
remember too many details. She thought she had pictures and some
certificates, but those are gone when she died to another relative who
refuses to share 'em - right now. Death affects people differently and I
have no problem waiting. So, I'm forced to look elsewhere. I have a webpage
up about the Hessbrook/Hesbrook's in America and it's about the descendants
of Daniel and Juanita in case you start googling around for information to
help me. I also have started a Family Newsletter on the Hessbrook/Hesbrook
surname and the first edition went out yesterday to relatives. I pray that I
get some more information from the newsletter back.
The story goes that Juanita Torres was from New Mexico. She had family there
that supposedly had land there. No land grants or deeds could be found for
her name, anyways, but according to another cousin, the Torres cousins still
reside in New Mexico to this day. I'm not sure how they met up or why they
married - love, convenience, land, whatever... But he was supposedly from
England and spoke fluent German and English. She spoke Spanish, learned
English, and was Catholic. I keep writing supposedly, sorry. I shall tell it
as it was told to me... without the "supposedly"s. Okay, so anyways, they
got married and had kids. Can't find them on the US Census for Texas nor New
Mexico Territory. I need a timeline here, but I don't have a good one until
the kids are born, so that brings us to 1873 for Helena Torres Hessbrook and
1875 for Albert Hessbrook. There should be a total of 1 girl and 3 or 4
boys. Their daughter Helena is my great-great grandmother. Have her death
certificate but not her birth certificate (Great-grandma states she was born
in Lampasas, Texas) and I have information on her descendants. Albert is my
great-great grand uncle and I have his birth information from Comal County
Birth Index and his death certificate and his descendants information.
Anyways, Juanita was pregnant when she was accidentally shot by one of her
children. My great-grandmother states that it was one of the boys. Still not
confirmed. What would have happened to him, I wonder? Would he be sent away?
Where? So, hence my questions: Would Daniel have re-married? What would have
happened to the children? I do not know how old they were when this event
happened. I've searched newspapers online, but wouldn't even know where to
begin searching in person that far back for Texas. They lived in the Texas
Hill Country which covers about 25 counties!
Any more info I didn't provide? Just ask and I will post away.
Thanks!
Danielle Brown
dt...@yahoo.com
Mary_...@tvo.org
Morales, Essie Lee; born: Feb 7, 1919; died: Feb 18, 2001; cem: St.
Michael
Daughter of Ferdinand and Wilhelmina (Bittner) Bahner...married Andrew
Hessbrook Morales, Feb 1944
Any connection?
Huntersglenn
the 1870 Federal Census:
Year: 1870; Census Place: Precinct 3, Lincoln, New Mexico Territory;
Roll: M593_894; Page: 289; Image: 30.
Hesbrook, Daniel, 32, farming, born Missouri
Juana, 22, , Keeping house, born New Mexico
Delia, 2, born New Mexico
John, 5/12, born New Mexico
(ancestry.com has them indexed as Hosbrook, but it looks like Hesbrook
to me)
The 1880 Federal Census finds them in Atascosa County, Texas:
Year: 1880; Census Place: , Atascosa, Texas; Roll: T9_1289; Family
History Film: 1255289; Page: 295.4000; Enumeration District: 3;
Hasbrook, Daniel, 39, engineer, born Italy, parents born Italy
Jane, 30, wife, keeping house, born New Mexico, parents born New Mexico
Adelia, 12, daughter, born New Mexico
Francis, 11, daughter, born New Mexico
Norman, 9, son, born Texas
Alane, 7, daughter, born Texas
Adaline, 6, daughter, born Texas
Albert, 3, son, born Texas
Leander, 3/12, born March, son, born Texas
Gar?, Pedro, 22, laborer, born Mexico
Spencer, Eliza, black, 27, laborer, born Louisiana, parents born Louisiana
Daniel's birth parents definitely got around <g>. And I don't know why
there's no sign of Francis in the 1870 census, but it seems to be the
same family.
Hope that helps,
Cathy
Dani
<Mary_...@tvo.org> wrote in message
news:1130894973....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Yes.
Andrew Hessbrook Morales is the son of Felix Morales and Hillary Hessbrook.
He is the brother of Felix Hessbrook Morales, where you can find him at
http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/MM/fmobk.html.
I have no idea who Hillary's parents are.
Danielle
Dani
"Huntersglenn" <hunter...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:q9V9f.117$wC.62@dukeread06...
>I think that I've found them in Lincoln County, New Mexico Territory in the
>1870 Federal Census:
> Year: 1870; Census Place: Precinct 3, Lincoln, New Mexico Territory; Roll:
> M593_894; Page: 289; Image: 30.
> Hesbrook, Daniel, 32, farming, born Missouri
> Juana, 22, , Keeping house, born New Mexico
> Delia, 2, born New Mexico
> John, 5/12, born New Mexico
> (ancestry.com has them indexed as Hosbrook, but it looks like Hesbrook to
> me)
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!! Awesome! So there'a a John and a Delia. Cool!
Then Albert and Helena hadn't been born yet?
I wonder if this is them.
>
> The 1880 Federal Census finds them in Atascosa County, Texas:
> Year: 1880; Census Place: , Atascosa, Texas; Roll: T9_1289; Family
> History Film: 1255289; Page: 295.4000; Enumeration District: 3;
> Hasbrook, Daniel, 39, engineer, born Italy, parents born Italy
> Jane, 30, wife, keeping house, born New Mexico, parents born New Mexico
> Adelia, 12, daughter, born New Mexico
> Francis, 11, daughter, born New Mexico
> Norman, 9, son, born Texas
> Alane, 7, daughter, born Texas
> Adaline, 6, daughter, born Texas
> Albert, 3, son, born Texas
> Leander, 3/12, born March, son, born Texas
> Gar?, Pedro, 22, laborer, born Mexico
> Spencer, Eliza, black, 27, laborer, born Louisiana, parents born Louisiana
Italy? I dunno if this is them or not. But I'll keep the information.Where's
John? Oh, at 15 and a half would he be somehwhere else?
Hmmm...
>
>
> Daniel's birth parents definitely got around <g>. And I don't know why
> there's no sign of Francis in the 1870 census, but it seems to be the same
> family.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Cathy
>
Thank you very much, Cathy!
Danielle
Charani
The places given for the birth and parents birth aren't always
correct - as I and others on this group know only too well from "our
Albert" <G>
John was 5 months old in 1870, so about 10½ in the 1880. That's what
5/12 means. He might be with other relatives or he might have died.
Leander is 3 months (3/12)