Aggrivated Damage and Mages
M.M
Okay. We know that Werewolves cannot soak Aggrivated from silver, and
Vampires have the same problem with fire. What type of Aggrivated
damage can Mages not soak?
Or am I completely wrong about the entire thing? :)
Matt
Soran
Dolp...@cris.com (M.M) wrote:
Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they 'toughen'
up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental -- "I have
armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
Point of interest, fire is not aggravated to mages, just Werewolves
and Vampires. Why? Because you can burn a Werewolf to death (and we
all know about the Vamp part).
Deathstalker
>Okay. We know that Werewolves cannot soak Aggrivated from silver, and
>Vampires have the same problem with fire. What type of Aggrivated
>damage can Mages not soak?
Here are the OFFICIAL, out of the latest books Injury rules:
1. A soak roll is Stamina.
EXCEPTION: Vampires with the discipline of Fortitude may add it to their
dice pool for soak rolls.
2. Aggravated damage is defined as:
- Fire and sunlight damage to a vampire
- Silver damage to a Garou
- Vulgar Life magick attacks
- Vulgar Prime magick attacks, or attacks CHARGED with Prime.
NOTE: This does NOT include conjunctional effects created with Prime, as
in a Forces 5/Prime 2 lightning bolt. Additional Prime must be invested in the
attack, which may or may not increase the level of Prime required
(storyteller's discretion on this one).
- Vulgar Entropy 4 attacks
- Spirit magicks that summon spirits to attack a target
- Natural weaponry of supernatural creatures
(- Perhaps Fae to cold iron. That's my personal ruling but I don't believe it
was ever stated in the books.)
3. Aggravated damage MAY be soaked.
EXCEPTION: Damage to which a target is particularly susceptible may not be
soaked.
- Vampires may not soak damage from fire and sunlight
- Garou may not soak damage from silver
(- Fae may not soak damage from cold iron)
5. Vampires with the discipline of Fortitude may use it reduce the damage dealt
to them by fire or sunlight.
Brian D. Moore
I believe that Mages cannot "naturally" soak aggravated damage. They are,
after all, human. However, by means off a form of Life Magick, the mage
could probably "soak" aggravated damage.
Be warned: Healing aggravated damage is considered a vulgar affect.
Therefore, a Magickal soak rote would probably be vulgar as well....
> Dolp...@cris.com (M.M) wrote in article
<4p23bm$i...@tribune.concentric.net>...
> Okay. We know that Werewolves cannot soak Aggrivated from silver, and
> Vampires have the same problem with fire. What type of Aggrivated
> damage can Mages not soak?
>
> Or am I completely wrong about the entire thing? :)
>
> Matt
>
>
--
Signature... Damn!! I need a signature...
ra...@generation.net
r...@airmail.net (Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon) wrote:
>And we all know that no Mage has ever been burnt to death (ever hear
>of the BURNING TIMES?).
So why does fire not cause aggravated damage to Mages? Perhaps because
Vampires and Werewolf both have a historical relation with fire.
Perhaps for the same reason they don't suffer from paradox? A
permanent paradox flaw of some kind? Or is it just a trade off? Gee I
really hurt by fire but I can shapeshift or Gee I'm immortal but fire
really hurts?
Rand Al'Thor
Lord of the Morning
Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon
so...@primenet.com (Soran) wrote:
> Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they 'toughen'
>up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental -- "I have
>armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
> Point of interest, fire is not aggravated to mages, just Werewolves
>and Vampires. Why? Because you can burn a Werewolf to death (and we
>all know about the Vamp part).
And we all know that no Mage has ever been burnt to death (ever hear
of the BURNING TIMES?).
Kestrel
The Fairly Decent Dragon
Cybersurfer
Brian D. Moore (bmo...@ibm.net) wrote:
: I believe that Mages cannot "naturally" soak aggravated damage. They are,
: after all, human. However, by means off a form of Life Magick, the mage
: could probably "soak" aggravated damage.
: Be warned: Healing aggravated damage is considered a vulgar affect.
: Therefore, a Magickal soak rote would probably be vulgar as well....
It was my understanding that, as Mages are basically human as
opposed to "supernatural" in origin, they do not take aggravated damage.
Aggravated damage as a concept only applies to those creatures that have
regenerative abilities; applied so that they may know what they can and
cannot naturally regenerate. Rules for Mages healing aggravated wounds
probably involve doing so on another supernatural...
--
___ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ ____
/ _|| \| _|| || || \| _| "MY words speak louder |||
\_ \| __/| _|| -| | | | /| _| than actions." |||
|___/|_| |___||___| |_| |_\_\|___| -Calvin |||
David Johnston
soran
-> Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they
-> 'toughen' up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental --
-> "I have armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
Of course, there is absolutely nothing in the Mage rules supporting this
assertion.
H. Jameel al Khafiz
r...@airmail.net (Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon) writes:
> so...@primenet.com (Soran) wrote:
>
> > Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they 'toughen'
> >up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental -- "I have
> >armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
> >and Vampires. Why? Because you can burn a Werewolf to death (and we
> >all know about the Vamp part).
>
> And we all know that no Mage has ever been burnt to death (ever hear
> of the BURNING TIMES?).
>
other sorts of damage from which werewolves heal at a superhuman rate.
----
H. Jameel al Khafiz "I got a letter from the government the other day
Physicist-At-Large I opened and read it; it said they were suckers!"
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/usr/ha09/home --Chuck D
Nyarlathotep
> So why does fire not cause aggravated damage to Mages? Perhaps because
> Vampires and Werewolf both have a historical relation with fire.
> Perhaps for the same reason they don't suffer from paradox? A
> permanent paradox flaw of some kind? Or is it just a trade off? Gee I
> really hurt by fire but I can shapeshift or Gee I'm immortal but fire
> really hurts?
Nah. The answer is simpler than that. Anykind of damage has the
potential to kill a mage. Besides, normal fire is not supernatural in
origin. One could theorize that damage from the claws and teeth of pups
and vamps is aggravated due to the Tass they carry around inside them.
Normal fire has no quint/tass powering it, therefore reality bending magic
can undo it do to the fact that fire does not bending reality. When a pup
rips into you, he is bending reality and you need magick to bend it your
way. Does this make sense?
--
This machine shared by Anne Gwin and Nyarlathotep. Sometimes we forget to change the name on the post.
Soran
r...@airmail.net (Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon) wrote:
>so...@primenet.com (Soran) wrote:
>> Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they 'toughen'
>>up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental -- "I have
>>armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
>> Point of interest, fire is not aggravated to mages, just Werewolves
>>and Vampires. Why? Because you can burn a Werewolf to death (and we
>>all know about the Vamp part).
>And we all know that no Mage has ever been burnt to death (ever hear
>of the BURNING TIMES?).
But they'll die from normal damage. 8 levels of standard damage and
the mage goes bye-bye. Besides, there's no mystical damage done by
fire to humans (oh, sure, it hurts like hell and it can kill you, but
so can a bullet).
-Soran
http://www.primenet.com/~soran
_______________________________________________________________
"I have always been here."
-Ambassador Kosh, "Babylon 5"
_______________________________________________________________
Soran
david.j...@freddy.com (David Johnston) wrote:
>soran
I know, I hadda ask Phil Brucato about it (writer of Mage 2nd ed). I
always thought that anyone could soak up aggravated with Stamina, and
if you were a Vamp, you even had Fortitude on your side. After reading
Vamp (all rules are 2nd edition, if available) I found out that they
need Fortitude to attempt the soak (roll Sta+Fortitude for any
aggravated damage, roll Fortitude only for fire/sunlight). That got me
thinking so I picked up Werewolf and read it, and it states that they
_can_ soak aggravated damage (standard Stamina roll, minus silver, of
course). I then read and re-read Mage and it didn't state either way,
so I finally asked Phil about the whole aggravated damage thing and
his reply was that they could not soak unless they had Life 3 because
they're normal humans (aside from their reality-bending abilities).
Same rules apply to Ghouls and Changelings.
Justin Rogers
Soran (so...@primenet.com) wrote:
: Dolp...@cris.com (M.M) wrote:
: >Okay. We know that Werewolves cannot soak Aggrivated from silver, and
: >Vampires have the same problem with fire. What type of Aggrivated
: >damage can Mages not soak?
: >Or am I completely wrong about the entire thing? :)
: Mages cannot soak any type of Aggravated damage, unless they 'toughen'
: up with Life 3 (something that is usually coincidental -- "I have
: armor!" or "Man, I'm lucky!").
Mage can soak any type of damage, aggravated or not, and fire is aggravated
damage to a mage.
Mages can only heal aggravated damage through time or with vulgar magick
requiring 1 point of quintessence per wound level.
--
"Humans and flowers are having sex." "Poo-tee-wheet?" "Everything is true."
Wolves Glen Pub page: www: http://www.comp.it.bton.ac.uk/~jcr1/wolves.html
Meaningless junk brought to you by: J.C.R...@bton.ac.uk
Boedyn - Lord of Cruelty
Unless there is magickal intervention,
all damage mages take is "aggrivated," that is to
say they have to heal at a humans rate.
Aggrivated damage for Vamp and Wolves is the
same; they have to heal at the normal human rate.
And fire wounds are in the real world, some of the
slowist ahrd hardist healing wounds.
--
BOEDYN - Lord of Cruelty and Wet Willies in Hell
"667; neighbor of the beast." Travis Parks
Colin Mcguigan (SAR)
Cybersurfer (spe...@netcom.com) wrote:
: It was my understanding that, as Mages are basically human as
: opposed to "supernatural" in origin, they do not take aggravated damage.
: Aggravated damage as a concept only applies to those creatures that have
: regenerative abilities; applied so that they may know what they can and
: cannot naturally regenerate. Rules for Mages healing aggravated wounds
: probably involve doing so on another supernatural...
Mages can take agg damage like anyone else, from the normal sources or from
direct pattern attacks (Rip The Man-Body, etc.) The main difference is that
for a mage, healing aggravated damage is -always- vulgar, while healing
normal damage can sometimes be coincidental.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can choose a ready guide, in some celestial voice,
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice,
You can choose from phantom fears, or vipers that can kill,
I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will."
- Rush, _Freewill_
Prince Nightchilde
Mages do take Aggrivated damage...
HOWEVER...
I found no rule saying that they could not soak agg. damage. The
only rule governing Agg. damage that I saw was that it takes
Vulgar Life Magick and a point of Quintessence per Wound Level to
heal.
--
Prince Nightchilde
I am the Prince of Dark Passions
Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon
ra...@generation.net wrote:
>>And we all know that no Mage has ever been burnt to death (ever hear
>>of the BURNING TIMES?).
>So why does fire not cause aggravated damage to Mages? Perhaps because
>Vampires and Werewolf both have a historical relation with fire.
>Perhaps for the same reason they don't suffer from paradox? A
>permanent paradox flaw of some kind? Or is it just a trade off? Gee I
>really hurt by fire but I can shapeshift or Gee I'm immortal but fire
>really hurts?
Simple. Fire, while still a Real Bad Thing in Mage, isn't on the same
level as a Paradox Backlash. One messes you up bad, the other does
the same thing on a molecular level.
Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon
Boedyn - Lord of Cruelty <7027...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> Unless there is magickal intervention,
>all damage mages take is "aggrivated," that is to
>say they have to heal at a humans rate.
Not true. Aggrivated damage is something that, if memory serves,
cannot be healed by magick because of the direct attack on the
pattern. Furthermore, aggrivated damage seriously disfigures the
victim (like burn scars) and often leaves a permanent wound (limps,
etc.).
> Aggrivated damage for Vamp and Wolves is the
>same; they have to heal at the normal human rate.
So humans heal aggrivated wounds once per night? (Vampire, 2nd Ed)
Deathstalker
In article <4p8jrp$c4o$2...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>, Boedyn - Lord of
Cruelty <7027...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> Unless there is magickal intervention,
>all damage mages take is "aggrivated," that is to
>say they have to heal at a humans rate.
Yeah, but aggravated has a substantially different meaning though. It's the
same in all the games - particularly nasty damage. With magi, yes, they do have
to heal at normal human rates without magickal (or technological) intervention,
since they are human, BUT - the difference comes in when it comes to the magick
required to heal the wound. Healing a standard wound is simple, usually
coincidental Life 2 magick. Healing an aggravated wound via magick is
difficult, requiring a point of Quintessence per health level healed and is a
vulgar Life 2 effect.
> Aggrivated damage for Vamp and Wolves is the
>same; they have to heal at the normal human rate.
No, they don't. Vampires can spend 1 willpower point and 3 blood points to
heal one aggravated wound a night. I don't remember the rules on the puppies,
but I think it involves Willpower and Rage expenditures.
Deathstalker
>Mage can soak any type of damage, aggravated or not, and fire is aggravated
>damage to a mage.
Fire is not aggravated to magi, at least not in the Mage 2nd Edition,
unless it is charged with Prime. Theoretically, fire could be aggravated (house
rule) and Thaumatugy: Lure of Flame fires, when released by the thaumaturgist,
could do aggravated damage, as they have some magical connection (again, a
house rule you can use/abuse).
Deathstalker
In article <4pdl87$s...@news-f.iadfw.net>, r...@airmail.net (Kestrel the Fairly
Decent Dragon) writes:
>Not true. Aggrivated damage is something that, if memory serves,
It's a-g-g-r-A-v-a-t-e-d. :)
>cannot be healed by magick because of the direct attack on the
>pattern. Furthermore, aggrivated damage seriously disfigures the
>victim (like burn scars) and often leaves a permanent wound (limps,
Sorry, you're wrong. That's all house rules. Aggravated damage is
particularly nasty damage that can be healed by vulgar Life 2 effects involving
an expenditure of 1 quintessence per level healed. It DOES NOT disfigure or
permanently injure a character unless the damage is very nasty - as in, it's up
to the ST. A house rule you can use is that botching a soak roll against
aggravated damage (something I know the book says can't be botched, but if
there are ones left over...) it can cause some sort of deformity.
The only exception is Paradox backlash damage and pattern leakage damage.
This damage cannot be healed magickally since the flow of quintessence through
that part of the pattern has been so severely disrupted that only time will
allow it to resume normal flow.
>So humans heal aggrivated wounds once per night? (Vampire, 2nd Ed)
Assuming the vampire does not expend the blood and willpower to heal the
wound, they heal at the same rate as the "juice-bags." That healing is NOT
automatic, nor is regeneration. It all requires the optional expenditure of
blood and perhaps willpower.
Prince Nightchilde
HaHA! Someone finally got the damage info right!
Well. Almost.
Changelings only take two types of damage, Chimeric (which
translates as Normal damage) and Real (which translates as
Aggrivated..i.e. is marked with an X.).
The only real effect iron has is that it can PERMANENTLY KILL a
Changeling's Fae self, irritates them and hurts like HELL.
Juan Vicente Manyanas Abad
Do> Okay. We know that Werewolves cannot soak Aggrivated from silver, and
Do> Vampires have the same problem with fire. What type of Aggrivated
Do> damage can Mages not soak?
Do> Or am I completely wrong about the entire thing? :)
Well... remembar that magi are just humans. So they are phisically identical
to any of us and all the damage they can bear is normal (This is bad enough,
isn't it?)
Seeya
... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message."
UsePkt 1.1b
Catwoman
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Cybersurfer wrote:
> Date: Thu, 6 JUN 1996 05:57:57 GMT
> From: Cybersurfer <spe...@netcom.com>
> Newgroups: alt.games.whitewolf
> Subject: Re: Aggrivated Damage and Mages
>
> Brian D. Moore (bmo...@ibm.net) wrote:
> : I believe that Mages cannot "naturally" soak aggravated damage. They are,
> : after all, human. However, by means off a form of Life Magick, the mage
> : could probably "soak" aggravated damage.
>
> : Be warned: Healing aggravated damage is considered a vulgar affect.
> : Therefore, a Magickal soak rote would probably be vulgar as well....
>
>
> It was my understanding that, as Mages are basically human as
> opposed to "supernatural" in origin, they do not take aggravated damage.
> Aggravated damage as a concept only applies to those creatures that have
> regenerative abilities; applied so that they may know what they can and
> cannot naturally regenerate. Rules for Mages healing aggravated wounds
> probably involve doing so on another supernatural...
>
Both true and false. Mages can take Aggrivated damage (i.e. damage that
Magick has a hard time healing.) but it is soaked normally. Mages can
only magickally heal aggrivated damage by using vulgar magick and
spending one quintessence per health level. Also aggrivated damage can be
healed over normal healing time (chart on page 265 of mage 2nd ed.) So
sayeth the great Mage 2nd ed. tome Mage on the page marked 264.
NOTE: To a Mage aggrivated damage is defined as such: claws and teeth of
vampires and garou, weapon talismans, acid and toxic waste, vulgar
life,entropy and some prime magicks and attacks by angry spirits.
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damc...@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
and of course.....(in other words, LOOK AT IT!!!!)
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La Sombra
Aggrivated damage doesn't apply to everybody. Just those who have a
natural (or unnatural as the case may be) healing ability. Ag separates
the damage that can be healed easily (blood pool for vampires,
automatically for werewolves) from that which cannot. To a mortal,
everything is, for all intents and purposes, aggrivated. It all heals
really slow. You can kill a mortal with a piece of tin as easily as
with a fire or a werewolf's claw. not so with Kindred or Garou. I
don't know about mages, because i think mage is stupid, but that's just
a personal opinion. To a mortal, a gypsy, a mummy, or a changeling,
damage is just damage. there's no difference between ag and normal.
Cold Iron does not do ag to changelings, but it does screw up their
glamour. The difference with changelings is that they also use Chimeric
damage, which is even less dangerous than normal damage, can only affect
fae, other inhabitants of the Dreaming, and enchanted mortals. Chimeric
damage can only kill chimeric things. And, by the way, fire does
Aggrivated damage to Garou as well.
Soran
Deathstalker <pchi...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
Nah, they just heal one point per night until they're all better.
Kestrel the Fairly Decent Dragon
Deathstalker <pchi...@cyberspace.org> wrote:
>>cannot be healed by magick because of the direct attack on the
>>pattern. Furthermore, aggrivated damage seriously disfigures the
>>victim (like burn scars) and often leaves a permanent wound (limps,
> Sorry, you're wrong. That's all house rules. Aggravated damage is
>particularly nasty damage that can be healed by vulgar Life 2 effects involving
>an expenditure of 1 quintessence per level healed. It DOES NOT disfigure or
>permanently injure a character unless the damage is very nasty - as in, it's up
>to the ST.
All aggravated damage is very nasty, by definition.
> A house rule you can use is that botching a soak roll against
>aggravated damage (something I know the book says can't be botched, but if
>there are ones left over...) it can cause some sort of deformity.
Or you can use the rules in Werewolf, since agg wounds can screw them
over.
> The only exception is Paradox backlash damage and pattern leakage damage.
>This damage cannot be healed magickally since the flow of quintessence through
>that part of the pattern has been so severely disrupted that only time will
>allow it to resume normal flow.
Like I said.
>>So humans heal aggrivated wounds once per night? (Vampire, 2nd Ed)
> Assuming the vampire does not expend the blood and willpower to heal the
>wound, they heal at the same rate as the "juice-bags." That healing is NOT
>automatic, nor is regeneration. It all requires the optional expenditure of
>blood and perhaps willpower.
Kindred don't heal at all unless they spend blood.
Deathstalker
In article <4q4rl9$t...@library.airnews.net>, r...@airmail.net (Kestrel the
Fairly Decent Dragon) writes:
>All aggravated damage is very nasty, by definition.
I meant very nasty as compared to your average aggravated damage.
>Or you can use the rules in Werewolf, since agg wounds can screw them
>over.
If you really want to.
>Kindred don't heal at all unless they spend blood.
Point taken. My mistake.
Thomas Davenport
Don't you mean Aggavated Mages and Damage? <Especially if we have a Master
of Forces or Entropy handy...>
<G>