Elizabeth Bathory in WOD
Istvan Batory
version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
I'm only curious because aside from Vlad Tepes she is possibly the best
known historical 'vampire' and I'm surprised she has'nt popped up
anywhere given that her personal habits could have made a Tzimisce
wince.
Anybody seen her anywhere?
Thanks
--
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that men of goodwill do
nothing."
Raven
Istvan Batory wrote in message ...
Hmmmmmm..... Id say more like a Toreador gone nucking futz. If she was after
Dracul, and before he becam part of the inconuu, she might be his ghoul.
WiZZZZZard
Go here:
http://php.indiana.edu/~adashiel/wod/
Click on the Vampire Icon.
Then click on the word Bloodlines.
Then look for the word Bathory.
M K-C
M K-C
LIFE:
It's sexually transmitted and always fatal.
Wanderer
>Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
>version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
>
>I'm only curious because aside from Vlad Tepes she is possibly the best
>known historical 'vampire' and I'm surprised she has'nt popped up
>anywhere given that her personal habits could have made a Tzimisce
>wince.
>
>Anybody seen her anywhere?
>
No ... but for those who haven't heard of her ("historical vampires" not
being a category on Jeopardy;), here's a brief rundown:
Elizabeth Bathory, niece of Stephen Bathory (the prince of Transylvania who
defeated Ivan the Terriblein Livonia [now Latvia and Estonia]), and princess
of Transylvania after his death, had his fiery blood on her father's side.
On her mother's side, her uncle was a sorcerer, and her grandmother was
insane.
One day (so legend says), a servant girl, while brushing the princess' hair,
snagged the brush painfully. Elizabeth turned around quickly, giving her
such a blow that blood flew. When she turned back to the mirror, she said
at her trial, she noticed that the places where blood had landed looked
younger and freesher than the rest.
By the time she was caught, she and her network of servants had progressed
to kidnapping (rather than buying) young maidens (they had to be virgins)
from nearby villages. The children were brought to the castle, where they
were drained into the princess' bathtub for her bathing pleasure. The
bodies were then either buried (which rapidly filled up all available space
in the cellar), or thrown to the wolves in a nearby forest.
It was this last method which caused her capture. One night, for whatever
reason, the wolves failed to come. The next morning, the drained corpse was
found by nearby villagers, and recognized as a missing child from that area.
From the resulting trial, only the essential court records survive. The
record of the search of Castle Bathory was stricken and burnt after the
trial, due to its contents.
Elizabeth Bathory was sentenced to lifelong imprisonment, and was
accordingly walled up alive inside her own castle, with only one small slot
left open to allow food to be sent in. In this manner she lived, and
finally died sometime in 1614 (the date is, understandably, uncertain).
Yours with a shudder,
The revolted,
Wanderer**wand...@applink.net
Where am I going?I don't quite know.
What does it matter where people go?
Down to the woods where the bluebells grow.
Anywhere! Anywhere! *I*don't know!
Slacker
On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Istvan Batory wrote:
> Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
> version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
>
> I'm only curious because aside from Vlad Tepes she is possibly the best
> known historical 'vampire' and I'm surprised she has'nt popped up
> anywhere given that her personal habits could have made a Tzimisce
> wince.
>
> Anybody seen her anywhere?
>
> Thanks
> --
>
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that men of goodwill do
> nothing."
>
>
"The only tyrant I accept in this world is the still voice within"
Mahatma Gandhi
kita
In case anyone might want to follow this up, I have a *cheap* not bad book on
her..
"The Bloody Countess" by Valentine Penrose, from the 'true crime' series. It's
paperback and was very cheap AUS$6.. (I don't what that'd be for you US ppl).
Not a bad read. 157pgs, has lots on evidence etc from the trial.
kita
tar...@imap2.asu.edu
: Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
: version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
: I'm only curious because aside from Vlad Tepes she is possibly the best
: known historical 'vampire' and I'm surprised she has'nt popped up
: anywhere given that her personal habits could have made a Tzimisce
: wince.
: Anybody seen her anywhere?
Someone did a net bloodline based on her several years ago.
Ben B.
The Saint of Killers
>
> Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
> version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
I donno about her specifically, but I imagine Showgirls was created by
Pentex-owned studios.
SoK
(It's a joke.)
GothAkasha
her story would bring something interesting to the games.
----------------------------
----------------------------
". My head is filled with disease. My skin is begging you please. I'm on my
hands and knees. I want so much to believe."
-NIN
Thrythlind
>feel
>her story would bring something interesting to the games.
Yes, but not as a vampire, most likely as a Verbena barabbi.
Thrythlind
Vlad Tepes in real life are mostly slanders by the rulers of other realms who
were insulted by the fact that Vlad Tepes actually held against the Turks when
a lot of them were forced to pick up and leave north and west. Of course he
did do a lot of things like the impalings and launching the heads of his
enemies into the Turk lines (resulting in a horrified retreat according to
stories) or when he invited every criminal and beggar to a huge feast and then
locked them in the building and burned it down. Bathory on the other hand was
actually caught and tried, and supposedly she survived years afterward in that
tower room (I don't remember if they provided her with food or not)
>Istvan Batory (ke...@kpople.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
>: version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
>
man...@geocities.com
thryt...@aol.com (Thrythlind) wrote:
There were no vampire connections to Tepes until Stoker wrote Dracula, and
then they were fairly nebulous anyway. Stoker had the character worked out
first and only later while doing research chose to link the character with a
historical figure.
Vlad did get some very bad press during his reign. The Germans really didn't
like him (and printed some propaganda about him describing him as a
"beserker") becuase he really cracked down on the the merchant class, who
were often of Grman rather than local descent (yeah I know, Germany didn't
exist at the time, I forget which countries were their). He also changed from
the Orthodox church which got him bad press in Russia.
Although he seems really bad by mondern standards, for the time he was just
worse, and rather more ruthless. He was however a pretty decent general as his
campaigns against the Turks show. He also had a lot of support amoung the
peasant classes for a) being nasty to the merchants b) holding off the Turks
and c) bring the crime rate way down.
Mant
--
World of Darkness Storyteller Resources
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GothAkasha
him one because of his brutal war tactics.
Istvan Batory
<gotha...@aol.com> writes
>I think the Blood Countess should be in the WOD if she isnt mentioned. I feel
>her story would bring something interesting to the games.
>----------------------------
Thats what I thought, and why I was surprised not to find any mention of
her, she is certainly far more deserving of being labelled a Vampire
than poor old Vlad Tepes.
>
>". My head is filled with disease. My skin is begging you please. I'm on my
>hands and knees. I want so much to believe."
>-NIN
--
cjseelist
Thrythlind wrote:
> BTW, from what I've heard (can't remember where) the vampire connections to
> Vlad Tepes in real life are mostly slanders by the rulers of other realms who
> were insulted by the fact that Vlad Tepes actually held against the Turks when
> a lot of them were forced to pick up and leave north and west. Of course he
> did do a lot of things like the impalings and launching the heads of his
> enemies into the Turk lines (resulting in a horrified retreat according to
> stories) or when he invited every criminal and beggar to a huge feast and then
> locked them in the building and burned it down
Actually, no one though Vlad had any vampire qualities until Stoker wrote
Dracula. He was inspired by a novel called "Carnilla"(sp?) by Le Fanu which
featured a foreign noblewomen who was actually a vampire, so he wanted his vampire
to be based on a noble as well. Studying eastern european lore, he discovered
Vlad and thought he would be perfect for the role. In Transylvania, he was
thought of as a thoroughly mortal hero. As for the things he did, impalings were
started by the Turks, not by Vlad, he just decided it was indeed a good way to
demoralize an enemy, so he took up the practice. And I don't thing he was
particularly cruel taken in context. That part of Europe was just a brutal area,
and that's how people in power stayed in power.By the way, does anyone know if
"Carnilla" had any historical base?
LenaFalk
>As for the things he did, impalings were
>started by the Turks, not by Vlad, he just decided it was indeed a good way
>to demoralize an enemy, so he took up the practice. And I don't thing he was
>particularly cruel taken in context. That part of Europe was just a brutal
area,
>and that's how people in power stayed in power.By the way, does anyone know
>if "Carnilla" had any historical base?
The story is "Carmilla" and contains lesbian aspects
between the vampiress and her victim, which supposedly
has fascinated Stoker who probably was gay himself.
This was actually most condemnable in the Victorian
times, where the ideal woman was put on a platform and
adored as an asexual creature. Stoker does not even
debate that fact - both female main characters are punished
for their daring sexuality, triggered by Dracula.
"Carmilla" ends with the words of her female victim that
she cannot forget the vampiress and still hears her soft
steps on the floor. Vampires have always been connected
to sex, been metaphors of sexuality, as well as their kiss,
and the blood, in a time when speaking about sexuality
or admitting to feel such a thing was unthinkable for women.
So why am I rambling on? Well, back to your question -
no, I don't know anything about a historical base for
Carmilla, but I don't believe it has one. It is so typical
a Gothic Novel that I doubt it has any real connections
besides the metaphors that the author wants to bring
across.
Lena
--
If the Divine master plan is perfection
Maybe next I'll give Judas a try
Trusting my soul to the ice cream assassin
<Tori Amos>
GothAkasha
war. This lady just wanted to stay young and beautiful.
Now that is evil.
----------------------------
----------------------------
blak...@technologist.com
lena...@aol.com (LenaFalk) wrote:
>
> >By the way, does anyone know
> >if "Carnilla" had any historical base?
>
> The story is "Carmilla"
BTW, anyone else think the 'Camarilla' is an annagram of that?
In the story, 'Carmilla' had actually changed her name from
'Millarca'...
> So why am I rambling on? Well, back to your question -
> no, I don't know anything about a historical base for
> Carmilla, but I don't believe it has one. It is so typical
> a Gothic Novel that I doubt it has any real connections
> besides the metaphors that the author wants to bring
> across.
I don't know if _Carmilla_ had a specific historical base,
but it was based more closely on the traditional vampire
myths than was _Dracula_ and the many modern interpretations
that followed (including Anne Rice, and ultimately, V:tM).
The European vampire stories generally depicted a vampire as
a malevolent sort of ghost, whose body remained burried, but
which appeared elsewhere to feed on it's victims, sometimes
as a spectral sort of dream or image, sometimes in more solid
form or the shape of an animal (I believe Carmilla did all of
the above, IIRC).
--
Blake 1001, Virtual Adept, Disciple
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1317/
|
---|-.
'-|---
Kiasyd
an issue of Inphobia magazine.
(for those who don't know or remember, Inphobia was White Wolf's
magazine which was before that called.... well, White Wolf magazine...)
Wanderer
<19981103075739...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
>I would have to agree. Vlad had no real Vampiric qualities. They only
called
>him one because of his brutal war tactics.
>----------------------------
Well, there *was* that nasty little legend in Wallachia (Transylvania's old
name) about his taking a piece of bread and sopping up the blood of his
enemies from the battlefield to eat ... but, yeah, other than that, nothing.
Transylvania was terrifically upset when they found out their folk hero,
Vladimir Tepes Dracula, had been linked with the legend of the wampyr
(which, in the legends of that area, was nothing more than a hunger-driven
monster born of an unblessed burial).
However, the tourist dollars seem to have eased the pain a mite ... ;>
Yours wanting to visit the "Dracula's Castle" hotel,
The touristy,
Mark Kinney
: and that's how people in power stayed in power.By the way, does anyone know if
: "Carnilla" had any historical base?
No, no historical base for Carmilla (according to The Vampire Encyclopedia
by Matthew Bunson, Crown: 1993.)
: > actually caught and tried, and supposedly she survived years afterward in that
: > tower room (I don't remember if they provided her with food or not)
: >
They did, same source as above.
: > >Someone did a net bloodline based on her several years ago.
: > >
Yeah, I think I saw that around somewhere. There's probably quite a
bit that could be added, though. :-)
--
albe...@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations
AKA Mirumoto Maaku, Annoying Bushi Clan Magistrate
"Delegation, n. In American politics, an article of merchandise that
comes in sets." -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
man...@geocities.com
blak...@technologist.com wrote:
> In article <19981103124337...@ngol05.aol.com>,
> lena...@aol.com (LenaFalk) wrote:
> >
> > >if "Carnilla" had any historical base?
> >
>
> BTW, anyone else think the 'Camarilla' is an annagram of that?
> In the story, 'Carmilla' had actually changed her name from
> 'Millarca'...
>
> > So why am I rambling on? Well, back to your question -
> > no, I don't know anything about a historical base for
> > Carmilla, but I don't believe it has one. It is so typical
> > a Gothic Novel that I doubt it has any real connections
> > besides the metaphors that the author wants to bring
> > across.
>
> I don't know if _Carmilla_ had a specific historical base,
> but it was based more closely on the traditional vampire
> myths than was _Dracula_ and the many modern interpretations
> that followed (including Anne Rice, and ultimately, V:tM).
On traditional myth. Eastern europe alone had *dozens* of differnt vampires in
mth a folklore, and thats before going anywhere else.
> The European vampire stories generally depicted a vampire as
> a malevolent sort of ghost, whose body remained burried, but
> which appeared elsewhere to feed on it's victims, sometimes
> as a spectral sort of dream or image, sometimes in more solid
> form or the shape of an animal (I believe Carmilla did all of
> the above, IIRC).
Again that on type, there were many types that were mindless revenants too,
little more than walking corpses. Although none were like the modern vampire.
BTW the "Carmilla" whole story is on the net being out of copyright for a
while now. Just use a search engine.
Mant
--
World of Darkness Storyteller Resources
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/7960/
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EricTolle
gotha...@aol.com says...
> Yea I know. Bathroy was more evil that Tepes. I mean he was fighting in a
> war. This lady just wanted to stay young and beautiful.
> Now that is evil.
Which is why I think she works best as a plain, old ordinary mortal.
It's easy, stereotypical, and boring to make her a vampire-the game
"Nightlife" for instance already has. What would work better to creep
out players is to point out that normal humans are capable of doing
things to rival even the most debased vampires.
--
Eric Tolle sch...@silcom.com
"Soap operas are proof that the world we live in is just your
typical primate troop with concrete trees." - Chris Campbell
Pit Viper
>In article <19981103124337...@ngol05.aol.com>,
> lena...@aol.com (LenaFalk) wrote:
>>
>> >By the way, does anyone know
>> >if "Carnilla" had any historical base?
>>
>> The story is "Carmilla"
>
>BTW, anyone else think the 'Camarilla' is an annagram of that?
>In the story, 'Carmilla' had actually changed her name from
>'Millarca'...
It might be a corruption, theoretically, but you might note it's a
letter short of being an anagram.
-The Poisonous Pit Viper
blak...@technologist.com
There's variations... a lot of the time, repeating a letter is OK.
Call it a near anagram, if you like.
--
Blake 1001, Virtual Adept, Disciple
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1317/
|
---|-.
'-|---
|
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
LenaFalk
>>> The story is "Carmilla"
>>
>>BTW, anyone else think the 'Camarilla' is an annagram of that?
>>In the story, 'Carmilla' had actually changed her name from
>>'Millarca'...
Camarilla is Spanish and means as much as *little chamber*.
It derives from parties at royal courts that are not officially
in power but influence policy non the less, usually discussing
in those little chambers.
nights...@gmail.com
> Ok simple question, does Elizabeth Bathory (I'm using the Aglicized
> version of her name here) feature anywhere in the World of Darkness?
>
> I'm only curious because aside from Vlad Tepes she is possibly the best
> known historical 'vampire' and I'm surprised she has'nt popped up
> anywhere given that her personal habits could have made a Tzimisce
> wince.
>
> Anybody seen her anywhere?
>
>
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that men of goodwill do
> nothing."