OT: Neverwinter Nights
Richard Clayton
it for two hours it seems pretty groovy. I've not yet played with the
building tools, but the interface is simple and effective. I've been
drooling over /Neverwinter Nights/ for the last two years because I felt
that it promised the capabilities of a MMORPG with the flexibility of
paper-and-dice storytelling; so far, it seems to be delivering on its
promise.
Christopher Adams
for pen-and-paper-style CRPGing!
--
- Kit -
Nay; we are but men. Rock!
"I sang the first hymn when the stars were born. And, long ago,
I announced to a young woman named Mary who it was she was
expecting. On the other hand, I've turned rivers into blood,
kings into cripples, cities into salt. So I don't think that
I have to explain myself to you."
- Gabriel, THE PROPHECY II
Richard Clayton
> I've been looking forward to this since it was first announced. Yay
> for pen-and-paper-style CRPGing!
Yes.
Hey, White Wolf, any chance of /Nexus Nights/ in our future? (^_~)
--
Richard Clayton (for...@earthlink.net)
"You were unlucky, but not terribly so. Be thankful, because eventually
you'll be very unlucky. In the end, everyone's score is zero." --
Stephen Lea Sheppard
Frederic SO
Stil waiting for it to cross the sea :p, would you mind to post your
impression on the building tool later ? thats the part that sold me
NwN :p
--
"Magic is the cheat code of the world.
Sending a signal to reality's operating system, see ?"
The Drummer, Planetary #7
Alex
wrote:
>Stil waiting for it to cross the sea :p, would you mind to post your
>impression on the building tool later ? thats the part that sold me
>NwN :p
Apparently, it's fantastic. Especially if you're a programmer or don't
mind learning a bit of programming.
My brother found some scripts that allow one to build a sustainable
environment. E.g. a goblin that keeps getting more and more hungry, so
every second his chances of going for a feed gets higher. When it gets
unbearable he goes off and kills a chicken to reduce his hunger level.
Some have made a script that allows bears of the opposite sex to have
baby cubs.
But, to be able to do this, you must understand the syntax, never mind
how to use functions. Great, meaty stuff though - this is the kind of
thing that sustains a game for at least two years.
Alex
atheist #2007
Hywel Davies
Just hearing about such possibilities makes me evn more eager to get my
hand on the game.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Mad_M...@hotmail.com
Mad_...@the-sanitorium.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.weirdness-central.co.uk/
User error: Please replace user and press any key
If you find you are falling into madness - Dive!!
------------------------------------------------------------
Leningrad
"Richard Clayton" <for...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D17AE7B...@earthlink.net...
Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people together
for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
I'm in.
-Leningrad-
Richard Clayton
Seconded.
Better still, I should have DSL soon.
Leningrad
> Leningrad wrote:
>
> > "Richard Clayton" <for...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:3D17AE7B...@earthlink.net...
> > > I just received /Neverwinter Nights/ today, and after playing with
> > > it for two hours it seems pretty groovy. I've not yet played with the
> > > building tools, but the interface is simple and effective. I've been
> > > drooling over /Neverwinter Nights/ for the last two years because I
felt
> > > that it promised the capabilities of a MMORPG with the flexibility of
> > > paper-and-dice storytelling; so far, it seems to be delivering on its
> > > promise.
> > >
> >
> > Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people
together
> > for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
> >
> > I'm in.
>
> Seconded.
>
> Better still, I should have DSL soon.
Groooovy. Anyone else?
-Leningrad
Samhaine
> Groooovy. Anyone else?
>
> -Leningrad
>
Not that I do much more than lurk in this forum and post incredibly rarely,
but I'd love to play NWN with you guys.
~Stephen
Stephenls
> Groooovy. Anyone else?
Me, as soon as I get a copy. That, however, might take a while.
--
Stephenls
Geek
Arguing with Stephenls about White Wolf canon is a lot like arguing
with God over the landscaping of heaven. -Richard Clayton
Landstander
> > > Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people
> together
> > > for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
> > >
> > > I'm in.
Then Richard "Scooter" Clayton wrote:
> > Seconded.
> >
> > Better still, I should have DSL soon.
To which Leningrad responded:
> Groooovy. Anyone else?
I'm sort of an a.g.ww irregular, but I'm up for it.
I would have responded to this thread earlier, but I got NWN on Friday and
have been playing it quite a bit. I'm totally in love with this game, and I
want to marry it [1]. I'd even settle for a civil union.
I haven't played AD&D since 2nd Ed, so most of the new rules made no sense
to me at first [2], but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. The
first time I heard of THAC0, I thought, "There's got to be a better way to
do that." It's kind of disappointing that I keep getting all kinds of great
weapons and armor that I can't or shouldn't use because I'm a Monk [3].
Leigh
[1] Only if polygamy is acceptable for game-marriages, though -- I'd want
Planescape: Torment at my other side.
[2] It took me a while to realize that a *higher* armor class is better.
I'm just so used to it being a lower-is-better thing, like Humanity.
(insert Emoticon of the Beast here)
[3] Er, my character, that is. Robes don't flatter me at all.
--
This place is not a place of honor.
No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.
Nothing valued is here.
Richard Clayton
Welcome, then. (^_^)
Richard Clayton
> Leningrad wrote:
> > > > Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people
> > together
> > > > for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
> > > >
> > > > I'm in.
>
> Then Richard "Scooter" Clayton wrote:
> > > Seconded.
> > >
> > > Better still, I should have DSL soon.
>
> To which Leningrad responded:
> > Groooovy. Anyone else?
>
> I'm sort of an a.g.ww irregular, but I'm up for it.
Hmmm. You know, that reminds me. Any good PC party needs a NAME, and "The
Alt.Games.Whitewolf Irregulars" doesn't sound too bad. (^_^)
> I would have responded to this thread earlier, but I got NWN on Friday and
> have been playing it quite a bit. I'm totally in love with this game, and I
> want to marry it [1]. I'd even settle for a civil union.
>
> I haven't played AD&D since 2nd Ed, so most of the new rules made no sense
> to me at first [2], but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. The
> first time I heard of THAC0, I thought, "There's got to be a better way to
> do that." It's kind of disappointing that I keep getting all kinds of great
> weapons and armor that I can't or shouldn't use because I'm a Monk [3].
Ironic that D&D3's core concept seems to have been "Let's take all the
bug-fixing 'house rules' people use for AD&D and integrate them into the core
system." (^_^) I'm not thrilled with some of the design decisions for D&D3, but
it IS much smoother and easier than AD&D2e.
> Leigh
> [1] Only if polygamy is acceptable for game-marriages, though -- I'd want
> Planescape: Torment at my other side.
I advise against poly-gamey relationships; oh, sure it SOUNDS like a good
idea, but sooner or later Torment will want to know why you've been spending so
much time playing NWN. Arguments, pleading, crying, and general angst ensue, and
the evening ends with BOTH of them walking out on you.
> [2] It took me a while to realize that a *higher* armor class is better.
> I'm just so used to it being a lower-is-better thing, like Humanity.
> (insert Emoticon of the Beast here)
Mwahahahah. And twinks around the world rejoice-- there is no longer a limit
on how good your AC can get! (^_~)
> [3] Er, my character, that is. Robes don't flatter me at all.
Robes flatter anyone. I'm wearing a robe right now.[1]
> This place is not a place of honor.
> No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.
> Nothing valued is here.
Posting from the Republican National Convention, are we? (^_~)
--
Richard Clayton (for...@earthlink.net)
"You were unlucky, but not terribly so. Be thankful, because eventually you'll
be very unlucky. In the end, everyone's score is zero." -- Stephen Lea Sheppard
[1] Although people tend to underestimate the arcane prowess of a guy walking
around in a burgundy bathrobe.
Leningrad
> Landstander wrote:
>
> > Leningrad wrote:
> > > > > Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people
> > > together
> > > > > for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter
group.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm in.
> >
> > Then Richard "Scooter" Clayton wrote:
> > > > Seconded.
> > > >
> > > > Better still, I should have DSL soon.
> >
> > To which Leningrad responded:
> > > Groooovy. Anyone else?
> >
> > I'm sort of an a.g.ww irregular, but I'm up for it.
>
> Hmmm. You know, that reminds me. Any good PC party needs a NAME, and
"The
> Alt.Games.Whitewolf Irregulars" doesn't sound too bad. (^_^)
Good, so the irregulars are shaping up nicely. Anyone want to volunteer for
the daunting task of Dungeon Master?
If I were more confident in my abilities to make Orcs attack cattle, maybe I
would. *grin*
-Leningrad-
Samhaine
"Leningrad" <adam-...@shaw.nospam.ca> wrote in message:
> Good, so the irregulars are shaping up nicely. Anyone want to volunteer
for
> the daunting task of Dungeon Master?
>
> If I were more confident in my abilities to make Orcs attack cattle, maybe
I
> would. *grin*
>
> -Leningrad-
>
>
I don't have anything put together just yet (the single player campaign
having taken over almost all of my non-working, non-sleeping hours), but I'm
starting to figure out how the scripting engine works and am perfectly
willing to help out on making sure stuff in the game does what the DM thinks
it should.
~Stephen
Z
>Stil waiting for it to cross the sea :p, would you mind to post your
>impression on the building tool later ? thats the part that sold me
>NwN :p
Awesome.
That's it.
Well, okay. Most of the basic/big things are extremely easy. Want a map of a
city/forest/cave? Okay. Done in 5-10 minutes. Oh, you want monsters? Another
5-10 minutes. Treasure in addition to that dropped by monsters? 5 minutes. And
that's just what I've been able to do just getting started.
You can have it hold your hand a lot, and you could probably whip up a meaty
adventure that you plan to DM in an hour or so, with basic conversation and
such.
However, if you want to do things on the level of a stand alone module (that you
could play without a DM) then you'll need to learn a bit of C for the scripting
language. They have a ton of scripts already written, but my brain melts trying
to figure out which one to pick, if it's something that's not already obivously
tied to an existing object. You'll need this for NPC's to do much more than
fight, talk or walk around (such as give or take quest objects, surrender in
battle, run away, etc). That's the bad news.
The good news comes in many forms. First, if you are clueless on C, get the
World Builder Guide. Reading the scripts as they present it in that book and
everything makes sense and seems so /easy/! It's really a great primer. For
example, they'll give you an example of two wizards fighting and another NPC
teleporting the PCs away. They give you a script for Wizard 1, Wizard 2, and
the Teleporter. There are comments in the scripts to give you hints on what's
going on, but then they do a great job of explaining what's happening in the
script. The book will give you a good basic grasp of functions, objects, and
variables. The book isn't all about C, but it's scattered throughout the guide
(included an Appendix which goes into greater detail) Once you've got the
examples down, you should be able to go to the Official Boards (great stuff in
the various building/scripting forums) or your NWN online location of choice,
and both find new scripts (such as hungry goblins) and, what I found recently
(on the Official boards) documentation that covers all the functions, objects,
variables, and so forth used by the game.
Again, the World Builder Guide is money well spent if you don't know
programming, but want to play with the toolset. I guess that's why it's sold
out (a game guide, selling out?!) a week after the game came out.
Z
_________________________________________________
"Do you think being a Man in Black is all voodoo
mind control? You should see the paperwork."
-Morris Fletcher, X-Files.
Leslie Smith
Bioware, that a few are trying to to make conversions aside from the
current Forgotten Realms setting.. (Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, Ravenloft)
And for the truly insane programmer, the developers themselves have
said how it would just take a little hard work to do what's known as a
"total conversion". (they mentioned Star Wars as an example) But
something like that would require major hacking of certain world
files.
To see what some are doing with it at the moment jump to the Bioware
forums over at http://nwn.bioware.com/ or jump to
www.planetneverwinter.com and their "Our forums" section.
Leslie
Chris Basken
>
> Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people together
> for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
Stephenls wooed me over from the dnd group by telling me about a NWN player
group. I'd be up for it.
Stephenls
> Stephenls wooed me over from the dnd group by telling me about a NWN
> player group. I'd be up for it.
Hey, you showed up. My evil plan is working.
Cool. Welcome aboard.
Richard Clayton
Welcome, then, to alt.games.whitewolf.and.nwn. (^_~)
Chris Basken
> Chris Basken wrote:
>
> > "Leningrad" wrote:
> > >
> > > Remember a while back we talked about getting some a.g.ww people
together
> > > for some computer games? How about starting up a Neverwinter group.
> >
> > Stephenls wooed me over from the dnd group by telling me about a NWN
player
> > group. I'd be up for it.
>
> Welcome, then, to alt.games.whitewolf.and.nwn. (^_~)
Thanks. I've been here before, off and on, and even posted quite a bit
(that was me about mass combat in WoD a few months back).
Wait, a.g.w.a.n? I was told it was alt.games.whitewolf.and.transformers...
;)
Hunter
Actually it is a.g.w.a. alt.games.whitewolf.and..
Leningrad
> Actually it is a.g.w.a. alt.games.whitewolf.and..
a.g.w
alt.games.whatever
Christopher Adams
me in and keep me informed, please :D
Evil Tyger
"Leslie Smith" <msm...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:j62uhuc62gfe224iv...@4ax.com...
> I've also heard from roaming the Neverwinter nights forum over at
> Bioware, that a few are trying to to make conversions aside from the
> current Forgotten Realms setting.. (Dark Sun, Dragon Lance, Ravenloft)
> And for the truly insane programmer, the developers themselves have
> said how it would just take a little hard work to do what's known as a
> "total conversion". (they mentioned Star Wars as an example) But
> something like that would require major hacking of certain world
> files.
Hmm... Wonder if we could get some Dark Ages stuff for WoD. Maybe at least
an Inquisition MoD......
Though I think the difficulty in MoD-ing the game to other systems is going
to hurt the game rather than helping it.
Richard Clayton
> When I get my new computer this game will be my first purchase - count
> me in and keep me informed, please :D
Update: After playing with the Aurora Builder Tools for NWN quite
extensively, I've found that there is very little that one CAN'T do in the
game. Knowledge of C programming is helpful, but for those of you who
AREN'T programmers, it includes a bunch of handy "script wizards" for
taking care of common tasks.
Richard is mightily pleased indeed.
Leslie Smith
Leslie
Richard Clayton
> So when will we see the module with the Giant Space Hamsters?
I don't do hamsters. Those are down the hall.
My NWN mods will likely have things like Villains with Complex Motivations,
Moral Ambiguity, and Situations with Solutions Other Than Smashing Monsters. I
can't help you with Giant Space Hamsters.
--
Richard Clayton (for...@earthlink.net)
"Hey, that's what I'm here for: Sage, yet disturbing, advice." -- Black Mage
Leslie Smith
that can't be improved by man-eating babies. :)
Leslie
Brian Merchant
>Just don't forget to include the man-eating babies. I know of no game
>that can't be improved by man-eating babies. :)
It must be interesting to play Monopoly with you.
--
Brian Merchant
Reading Slashdot is like attending a meeting of Mensa in the same hall
where they're giving away WWF Smackdown tickets in exchange for chickens.
Samhaine
"Richard Clayton" <for...@earthlink.net> wrote :
> My NWN mods will likely have things like Villains with Complex
Motivations,
> Moral Ambiguity, and Situations with Solutions Other Than Smashing
Monsters. I
> can't help you with Giant Space Hamsters.
> --
Who are you?
"I'm the obviously evil traitor that you could have rooted out and destroyed
very early on if I didn't have this wonderful PLOT flag."
Who are you?
"I'm the tragic figure that you could easily have saved from this stupid
decision, had you only had the dialogue options."
Who are you?
"I'm the completely undeveloped penultimate villain. You might have seen my
name on letters about feasting on blood and such. I forgot to read the Evil
Overlord's list."
Who are you?
"Eldritch evil cliche that is trying to be Lovecraftian. Unfortunately I'm
way too understandible in my motivations and too predictible to be that."
Oh. I'm glad that all the monsters you guys have been throwing at me for
60-odd hours have maxed out my ass-kicking abilities. I had to do something
for fun while I was waiting for my dialogue options to catch up with what I
figured out about the plot. I guess I'll kill you now too.
~Stephen
forum lurker
Frederic SO
<for...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Update: After playing with the Aurora Builder Tools for NWN quite
>extensively, I've found that there is very little that one CAN'T do in the
>game. Knowledge of C programming is helpful, but for those of you who
>AREN'T programmers, it includes a bunch of handy "script wizards" for
>taking care of common tasks.
>
thats sound good, i just have to wait for the european release.
--
"Magic is the cheat code of the world.
Sending a signal to reality's operating system, see ?"
The Drummer, Planetary #7
Frederic SO
<for...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I don't do hamsters. Those are down the hall.
>
and what about bees ? :p
Leslie Smith
plays. Really speeds up the game.
Candyland with leeches anyone? The only problem is that preschoolers
don't have alot of blood in them so they pass out often. Makes the
games too damn short.
Leslie
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:43:49 GMT, Brian Merchant <spa...@example.com>
wrote:
Richard Clayton
> Who are you?
> "I'm the obviously evil traitor that you could have rooted out and destroyed
> very early on if I didn't have this wonderful PLOT flag."
I have issues with the "plot" flag for NPCs. In a way, it's cheating; it's
like saying "You can't do this." I don't like that. I like open-ended games. I
will avoid "plotting" my NPCs whenever possible; I will just script reasonable
reasons why you shouldn't. For example, you CAN stab King Foo to death and loot
his bleeding corpse; be aware, however, that this will pretty much cause all
Defenders in the region to attack you...
(BTW, I hope that wasn't a spoiler for the game. I spend most of my time
playing with the Builder, so I'm not very far into the boxed campaign-- only
about halfway through Chapter One-- and there's already one guy who just screams
"traitor." I wonder about him...)
> Who are you?
> "I'm the tragic figure that you could easily have saved from this stupid
> decision, had you only had the dialogue options."
While there are limitations on how much dialogue you can script, I will try
to include all the obvious options.
> Who are you?
> "I'm the completely undeveloped penultimate villain. You might have seen my
> name on letters about feasting on blood and such. I forgot to read the Evil
> Overlord's list."
Richard's Rules of Thumb for Storytelling, #18: THE VILLAIN OF THE PIECE IS
RARELY STUPID. Do your players the courtesy of granting them a competent
archnemesis. Transparent idiocy does not promote great personal power.
> Who are you?
> "Eldritch evil cliche that is trying to be Lovecraftian. Unfortunately I'm
> way too understandible in my motivations and too predictible to be that."
> Oh. I'm glad that all the monsters you guys have been throwing at me for
> 60-odd hours have maxed out my ass-kicking abilities. I had to do something
> for fun while I was waiting for my dialogue options to catch up with what I
> figured out about the plot. I guess I'll kill you now too.
I'll also aim for a little less hack and slash than the box campaign. Maybe
all these years I've been doing AD&D "wrong," but personally, I was never overly
fond of the "wander around, smash monsters, wander around some more and see what
else attacks us" school of roleplaying.
Hunter
wrote:
>Samhaine wrote:
> I'll also aim for a little less hack and slash than the box campaign. Maybe
>all these years I've been doing AD&D "wrong," but personally, I was never overly
>fond of the "wander around, smash monsters, wander around some more and see what
>else attacks us" school of roleplaying.
As a campaign no, but as part of one, "hunting" can be fun. It is a
real life activity and can be fun as a part of a campaign.
Leslie Smith
will abush you from afar with a variety of traps, deadfalls, fall
backs for their archers, maybe even "spider holes" so their swordsmen
can jump out at you when you pass them by. (no not a Nights module,
just D&D game experience) And if they or any other "monster" is
carrying the magical equivalent of a bazooka as treasure (or just a
plain bazooka if you're brave enough for a mod) they'll know how to
use it; and they WILL. I personally hate the scenes of: some big
creature running at you with an axe but no armor, no guards posted
around tribal villages, the evil wizard who always wants to take over
the world with their 4th level spells, convenient magic items of doom
that have lasted for thousands of years buried in a tomb but if
dropped to the floor by the hero will instantly shatter, etc.
Basically stuff drawn directly from "classical" hero stories that
always seem to end "....and they lived happily everafter........".
Leslie
On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:38:40 GMT, cypher...@netscape.net (Hunter)
wrote:
Leslie Smith
pretty original orations presented
Leslie
Richard Clayton
> p.o.o.p
>
> pretty original orations presented
Note to all the Alt.Games.Whitewolf Irregulars: I have begun
composing my 3v1l campaign on this day. Prepare yourselves.
Landstander
> Note to all the Alt.Games.Whitewolf Irregulars: I have begun
> composing my 3v1l campaign on this day. Prepare yourselves.
Excellent.
(note: this message has been edited to remove any potential spoilers for
NWN)
I haven't played with the Builder yet (I haven't DMed in 7 years, and with
good reason), so the sorts of things I've been thinking about doing might be
more in the realm of a TC than just a campaign. I'm picturing something
with, oh, I don't know... werewolves and vampires as PCs, maybe. I'd like
to make some new classes, races, and feats. Being able to play as an actual
Claw Shrimp, instead of just a Human, sub-race Claw Shrimp (no, I don't know
how that works -- it just does), would really make my day.
There are already models for werewolves, wererats, and [PLOT POINT REMOVED].
Of course, some new spells or feats would have to be created to simulate
certain abilities those creatures have in other contexts (hey, this is
practically on-topic).
Even without new races, just making existing things playable could be
interesting. Maybe there are some umber hulks out there that have seen
enough bloodshed and just want some friends. A frost giant, unable to enter
buildings, could begin a worldwide campaign to destroy roofs, doors, and
other such obstacles to the vertically enhanced.
If none of that is possible, I'd still be thrilled to see something in which
the PCs are actually able to hop off the tracks of the plot-railroad and
actually make a difference. For example, at one point my character [PLOT
POINT REMOVED], and ran into [PLOT POINT REMOVED], who he could have easily
killed, preventing [PLOT POINT REMOVED]. Of course, he/she/it [PLOT POINT
REMOVED], and I could swear I heard a train's whistle.
I'm currently wondering whether a monk, upon reaching level 20 and becoming
a god, can change his/her deity to his/her own name.
Leigh, who, not knowing any Forgotten Realms gods, filled in "Tiamat"
--
"I am not one of you. I come from an ancient time.
I am known as The Kicker of Elves. I am also
known as The Angel Crusher!" -- Tenacious D
Kish
>
> I'm currently wondering whether a monk, upon reaching level 20 and becoming
> a god, can change his/her deity to his/her own name.
Becoming a /god/? If monks become gods (rather than just extra-planar
creatures) at level 20 in NWN, that's a big change from D&D.
Landstander
Okay, that was a bit of hyperbole on my part (I use more hyperbole than
anyone on the planet!). They only become extra-planar creatures, but it
seems like every extra-planar creature (in the entire game universe! (there
I go again)) gets worshipped at some point.
Leigh
--
"I just wanted to stand on land."
Kish
I kinda doubt too many imps get worshipped...or lantern archons.
Hywel Davies
wrote:
Tiamat is actually a Forgotten Rrealms god (happen to have the book Faiths
and Pantheons with me here at work ;-} )
Tiamat (tee-a-maht)
The Dragon Queen, Nemesis of the Gods, the Dark Lady
Lesser Faerunian Deity
Symbol: Five-headed dragon
Home Plane: Heliopolis
Alignment: Lawful evil
Portfolio: Evil dragons, evil reptiles, greed, Chessenta
Worshipers: Chromatic dragons, Cult of the Dragons, evil dragons, evil
reptiles, fighters, sorcerers, thieves, vandals
Cleric Alignments LE, LN, NE
Domains: Evil, Law, Scalykind, Tyranny
Favoured Enemy: A dragon head (heavy pick)
I'm on a break at the moment which is why I can get away with doing
this.....
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Mad_M...@hotmail.com
Mad_...@the-sanitorium.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.weirdness-central.co.uk/
User error: Please replace user and press any key
If you find you are falling into madness - Dive!!
------------------------------------------------------------
Samhaine
"Landstander" <lands...@snet.net> wrote
I'd like
> to make some new classes, races, and feats. Being able to play as an
actual
> Claw Shrimp, instead of just a Human, sub-race Claw Shrimp (no, I don't
know
> how that works -- it just does), would really make my day.
>
Sadly, there isn't a lot you can do to alter PCs. With NPCs there's room
for endless customization, but it looks like the urge to prevent powergaming
made them set it up to keep PCs from being very altered in the toolset.
Someone on the bioware boards did point out a trick, however, for using a
script to give a PC a creature skin. You stick whatever custom racial
powers you want on the skin and then give it to the PC. It apparently
doesn't show up on their character sheet, but they have the abilities
regardless.
Whenever I get around to making a module I'm going to have to sit down and
make a big list of missing skills and which included skills could be used to
represent them. That's, I think, my biggest problem with the NWN engine -
they could have very easily included a whole list of optional skills and
other traits with a big flag saying "This only works with DM-custom
scripting. Do Not Take This For the Official Campaign." Would have made
things oh so much easier.
> There are already models for werewolves, wererats, and [PLOT POINT
REMOVED].
> Of course, some new spells or feats would have to be created to simulate
> certain abilities those creatures have in other contexts (hey, this is
> practically on-topic).
Luckily enough, this is pretty easy to do with scripting. For instance, in
an outside map you can put a heartbeat (checked every 6 seconds) script on
all vampires or on the area that checks to see if it's daytime and, if so,
does damage to them. A lot of other powers can be easily simulated in a
similar manner. If you're looking at PCs, however, it becomes more
difficult. It all comes down to script-applied skins, scripts checking for
the Subrace field, and giving them magic items with the Unique Effect power
(basically using them triggers a script on the module that can then do
stuff).
>
> Even without new races, just making existing things playable could be
> interesting. Maybe there are some umber hulks out there that have seen
> enough bloodshed and just want some friends. A frost giant, unable to
enter
> buildings, could begin a worldwide campaign to destroy roofs, doors, and
> other such obstacles to the vertically enhanced.
>
Sadly, houses and such are scenery and can't be destroyed. However, doors
and other Placeable scenery can easily be set to Useable with the toolset,
which makes them bashable. Put a custom script on the monster that sees if
such a breakable is in it perception range and then tell it to break it and
you're good.
> If none of that is possible, I'd still be thrilled to see something in
which
> the PCs are actually able to hop off the tracks of the plot-railroad and
> actually make a difference. For example, at one point my character [PLOT
> POINT REMOVED], and ran into [PLOT POINT REMOVED], who he could have
easily
> killed, preventing [PLOT POINT REMOVED]. Of course, he/she/it [PLOT POINT
> REMOVED], and I could swear I heard a train's whistle.
>
0
*Weapon Ineffective*
0
*Weapon Ineffective*
*You cannot damage the target with your currently equipped weapon!*
> I'm currently wondering whether a monk, upon reaching level 20 and
becoming
> a god, can change his/her deity to his/her own name.
>
Nope. No options to change anything you entered during character creation.
Not portrait, nor background, nor deity, nor subrace. It's really kinda
sad. Perhaps by the time they start doing expansion packs and
content-changing patches Bioware can be convinced that the player-base is
more concerned with having all the options to do what we want rather than
having the game attempt to police problem players on its own.
~Stephen
forum lurker
NWN junkie
Samhaine
"Richard Clayton" <for...@earthlink.net> wrote
> I have issues with the "plot" flag for NPCs. In a way, it's cheating;
it's
> like saying "You can't do this."
The overwhelming plotline of the official campaign is rather linear and
predictable. Given the fact that it's broken up into 4 chapters and
consists of around 7 modules (each of which cannot communicate with the
previous module to see what you did, unless they use workarounds like giving
you items and then checking for them) this was likely. It's less of an RPG
and more of a story that you get to follow while you kill monsters.
> (BTW, I hope that wasn't a spoiler for the game. I spend most of my
time
> playing with the Builder, so I'm not very far into the boxed campaign--
only
> about halfway through Chapter One-- and there's already one guy who just
screams
> "traitor." I wonder about him...)
You've already gotten to the "There must have been a traitor in the academy"
dialogue, I suspect. I think it's in the journal summary at the beginning
of the chapter. Said traitor is probably who you're thinking of. If not,
it will become VERY apparent who it is after you talk to more NPCs and do
more of the main plot. The funny thing about the PLOT flag is that the NPC
doesn't register attacks as a hostile action, so you can beat on PLOT
characters the same way you beat on a training dummy. There's no effect at
all, but you can get out some aggressions.
> While there are limitations on how much dialogue you can script, I
will try
> to include all the obvious options.
It's a sad tradeoff between making sure the options are there and keeping
people from playing multiple choice. "Well, I'd never considered that the
queen of the bugbear dancing Monks was secretly a Doppelganger, but since
there's this dialogue option, I guess I'll pick it." A lot of them you can
attack to local variables so they only show up when the sub-plots that
should make them apparent have been completed. It's a ton of work, but
there is apparently a function to get the last thing a PC said in their
Player-chat field, so it would be possible, just very very difficult, to
have a completely keyword-based chat system. Very, very, very difficult.
> Richard's Rules of Thumb for Storytelling, #18: THE VILLAIN OF THE
PIECE IS
> RARELY STUPID. Do your players the courtesy of granting them a competent
> archnemesis. Transparent idiocy does not promote great personal power.
The aformentioned villain, [SPOILER DELETED], is not the principle villain,
but just seems to be there for no other reason than [SPOILER].*
> I'll also aim for a little less hack and slash than the box campaign.
Maybe
> all these years I've been doing AD&D "wrong," but personally, I was never
overly
> fond of the "wander around, smash monsters, wander around some more and
see what
> else attacks us" school of roleplaying.
With NWN's toolset it's very easy to say "Combat is so quick and simple now,
that means that it can be done with and not get in the way of the main
plot." Unfortunately Bioware apparently said "Combat is so quick and simple
now. We better put lots and lots of it in to make up for this fact."
~Stephen
*
SPOILER ABOUT PENULTIMATE VILLAIN
REALLY
YOU REALLY DON'T WANNA READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THE CAMPAIGN
okay
I just get the whole impression that Bioware went "oh no, our two principle
villains are women(sortof). Also, one of them is morally gray, and the
other is alien and is only doing what she considers necessary for her
species. What we need is a man to be the major villain. One who's really
evil. Yeah."
I noticed the other night that including henchmen and major plot characters
there are something like 3 women, 8 men, and one Lizard Queen. All three
women are available for romance plotlines of some degree, even though two of
them have just had their lover die. Only one of the men is available for
romance (unless one of the henchmen is - I only used Daelan but I haven't
seen anything about the others in any of the Bioware board threads). With
all the work that has been done to try to make RPGs, even D&D, more female
inclusive, it seems odd to me that Bioware made such a throwback. Eh well.
Chris Basken
>
> 0
> *Weapon Ineffective*
> 0
> *Weapon Ineffective*
> *You cannot damage the target with your currently equipped weapon!*
I get that when bashing open chests. I dunno why -- six swings and
splinters everywhere.
Samhaine
"Chris Basken" <ch...@nospambasken.com> wrote
> I get that when bashing open chests. I dunno why -- six swings and
> splinters everywhere.
>
It seems to be that it gives the same error message for damage reduction as
it does for damage immunity. I guess it's designed to tell people to stop
trying to hurt something with 50/+5 reduction with their +2 sword, but it
comes into play for anything with DR/Hardness. Therefore, a chest with 5
hardness will give you that message any time you do a swing that does 5 or
less damage, since you couldn't overcome the damage reduction on the chest.
Save that you can. A better statement would be.
0
*Damage Reduced*
0
*Damage Reduced*
*Your current weapon cannot ignore the target's Damage Reduction!*
But what can you do?
~Stephen
Richard Clayton
> "Richard Clayton" <for...@earthlink.net> wrote
> > I have issues with the "plot" flag for NPCs. In a way, it's cheating;
> it's
> > like saying "You can't do this."
>
> The overwhelming plotline of the official campaign is rather linear and
> predictable. Given the fact that it's broken up into 4 chapters and
> consists of around 7 modules (each of which cannot communicate with the
> previous module to see what you did, unless they use workarounds like giving
> you items and then checking for them) this was likely. It's less of an RPG
> and more of a story that you get to follow while you kill monsters.
Yes, true. And on the whole, I think BioWare's decision to focus more on
making the Builder useful and flexible and less on making a s00p3r d00p3r box
campaign was a wise one. A gamble, but it paid off, I think.
> The funny thing about the PLOT flag is that the NPC
> doesn't register attacks as a hostile action, so you can beat on PLOT
> characters the same way you beat on a training dummy. There's no effect at
> all, but you can get out some aggressions.
Gwahahahah. I've noticed this. "Aribeth, you BITCH! A fucking level umpteen
Paladin, and you sit on your ass here in the temple while I'm out being pounded
by every damned monster in the game! Take THIS!"
Mental note: Do not make traitors so laughably transparent in my games.
> It's a sad tradeoff between making sure the options are there and keeping
> people from playing multiple choice. "Well, I'd never considered that the
> queen of the bugbear dancing Monks was secretly a Doppelganger, but since
> there's this dialogue option, I guess I'll pick it." A lot of them you can
> attack to local variables so they only show up when the sub-plots that
> should make them apparent have been completed.
Yes. I will make use of this.
> It's a ton of work, but
> there is apparently a function to get the last thing a PC said in their
> Player-chat field, so it would be possible, just very very difficult, to
> have a completely keyword-based chat system. Very, very, very difficult.
I suppose this is what the DM client is for. You can "possess" NPCs and
write dialogue on the fly.
> With NWN's toolset it's very easy to say "Combat is so quick and simple now,
> that means that it can be done with and not get in the way of the main
> plot." Unfortunately Bioware apparently said "Combat is so quick and simple
> now. We better put lots and lots of it in to make up for this fact."
::shrug:: It all depends on what you want out of the game-- and with the
scalable combat difficulty and XP awards, you really can have it any way you
want it.
Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to want NWN to be Diablo 3. I do not
understand this, personally, but I'd be the last person to say "My roleplaying
style is Objectively Correct and everybody else is a twink."