Ananasi Tribebook
Horrors
I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near future.
Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
book.
Keep Smiling,
Jim Moore
BArmor9292
>future.
>Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
>werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>book.
I'll have to hold off on the questions for a little while, as that I am
currently too busy running through the streets w/out pants (Damn the Pants!),
yelling at the top of my lungs and lighting firecrackers, all in celebration of
this joyous news.
WOO HOO!!! :)
"I waste him with my crossbow!"
satan
so I don't have to ask them in several posts. I don't own all of the books
(yes I know, I'm evil.) and I understand from looking in one that I don't
own (The Werewolf Players Guide, 2nd edition) that there is more detailed
information than in the 1st edition of the players guide for Werewolf. I
only bring this up in case I ask a question that may have already been asked
in the earlier book.
1.I understand that Ananasi have blood points and don't heal as typical
shapechangers do but instead use blood points to heal. If I remember, they
also have a couple of the abilities to use blood as a kindred does. Perhaps
this could be expanded on.
2.Not a powergamer question, but perhaps there would be something to allow
them to gather more blood points than they currently can now (10) so as to
allow a little more healing or special abilities.
3. More information on the Queen please as well as a possible detailed
history of the Queen and the Ananasi as a whole and how they fit into the
history of the World of Darkness.
4. Possible other breeds of Ananasi, like their are different types of
spiders. Perhaps some with Venom, spinnerets, leaping, web parachutes,
effects of a web like certain spiders, etc.
5. Possibly something kinda vicious like the ability of many spiders to use
a poison that liquefies the internal parts of an opponent so that they may
suck the insides out for food. Yes I know that this is very gross, but no
more so than other aspects of the World of Darkness.
6. Groups of Ananasi, like a Coterie, or Pack all based upon a certain theme
or idea.
7. Famous Ananasi through history, those who may have made changes for the
World and/or the World of Darkness.
8. Perhaps an update considering the various changes in the world, with the
relationship with the other shapechangers including the Garou. Of course,
if nothing has changed then this wouldn't do any good.
9. Templates for different Ananasi characters.
10. How the various groups see them, and how they see the other groups.
11. New Gifts specifically for the Ananasi.
12. Merits and Flaws, special abilities that might fit just for the Ananasi.
13. More detail on the forms, possible appearances for possible different
breeds, and questions answered like.....Are there Metis Ananasi? Can an
Ananasi become a ghoul or a Vampire? Can they learn magick like a Bastet?
14. Can they time? For example, if an Ananasi character turns herself into
crawlerling form and wanders around, lets say the Sears Tower. How many are
there and can the character possibly perceive every room in the tower at
once? This is an awesome power and can be possibly abused.
17. Perhaps an option where they can use their multiple arms without a
penalty or with a lesser penalty?
18. How they gain rank, or do they?
I'll leave it at that for now, but since I'm of the opinion that they are
one of the best character types created so far for the World of Darkness, I
may have more later for you. I appreciate your working on this. :)
frenzy, or since they don't have Rage are they immune?
15. Since they don't have Rage, does Primal Urge do anything for them at
all?
16. Is there a limit to the number of Crawlerlings that an Ananasi can use
to spy with at one
Questions?
Email: sa...@xmission.com
or
ICQ: wwp.icq.com/10394363
Tiama'at
*3. More information on the Queen please as well as a possible detailed
*history of the Queen and the Ananasi as a whole and how they fit into the
*history of the World of Darkness.
Possibly info on other (long dead or missing) insect betes?
*4. Possible other breeds of Ananasi, like their are different types of
*spiders. Perhaps some with Venom, spinnerets, leaping, web parachutes,
*effects of a web like certain spiders, etc.
Actually, could we keep them away from the breed seperation and stick to how
they were presented in PG2 - by Triat affiliation? Of course this may require
a 'caitiff' tribe of atavists rejecting the whole triat.
*8. Perhaps an update considering the various changes in the world, with the
*relationship with the other shapechangers including the Garou. Of course,
*if nothing has changed then this wouldn't do any good.
Considering how their breeding demographics work out - maybe giving them an
edge - they aren't dying out but thriving (when not killing each other for
sectarian reasons).
*12. Merits and Flaws, special abilities that might fit just for the Ananasi.
I have a pretty good one, but since I would like to see it in the book, email
me about it privately.
Tiama'at.
- who started writing a tb for the all-call, but personal life got in the way.
Matthew Hickey aka Tiama'at ][ WS/Soc (H) II - Carleton U
matthe...@hotmail.com ][ "Hold On To Nothing
ICQ: 12954569 (Nemesis) ][ As Fast As You Can" - T.A.
Cyril Pasteau
20. Are there going to be special rules to freak people with hairy spiders ?
21. Rules to fight ants. It seems necessary. BTW, there were no rules about
water spiders in Blood-Dimmed Tides, were they ?
22. Rank 6 Gifts.
23. Special deadly hellishly powerful Arachnido martial arts techniques.
24. A chapter on insecticides.
25. More legs. More eyes.
26. Roleplaying advices to mimic spider howls.
27. Political factions among the Ananasi (Sierra Club, the Commies, the
Illuminati, the Drows). Racism among the Ananasi.
28. The flaws of the Ananasi need to be reworked. Try this one : Ananasi
feel compelled to sell their stock actions in order to buy gold, to hide it
in their subterranean lairs, to draw treasure maps and to send them to Coeur
Avide, 1 rue de l'Argent, 75001 Paris, France.
29. Please describe their secret lairs. Do not tell us Ananasi inhabit "dark
subterranean holes". I would like to know the specifics of their
environment. Since there are not tens of thousands of Ananasi, maybe you
could even give us a map of one of their lairs. A cross should indicate the
location of their secret dark treasure.
30. Where is the Ananasa Queen ? Would it soak a cruising missile ? And if
it takes the Crawlerling form and my PC want still to eradicate it, what are
the rules for flamethrowers in this case ?
31. If my 5th Generation Lasombra antitribu Diabolist Plotter tries to
Dominate Queen Ananasa when it is in Crawlerling form, is a single eye
contact with a spider enough to do it ?
32. Last but not least, when will you rage ? I have searched, but nowhere
have I found in WhiteWolf products the xp rewards for monsters. How many
experience points a Rank 7 Ananasi is worth ?
Avatar9000
bastet, and rokea. Can she frenzy? Does she gain temporary rage? Is their
blood twice as potent? How about garou blood? And nuwisha, nagah,
mokole,corax, and Kitsune? What if she drinks the blood of a Vampire?
Changeling? Mage? Mummy?
Include new combat manuvers.
The obligatory abomination question.
Their relations with the kumo.
Can they subsist off of human food but gain no blood points or must they drink
blood to sustain themselves?
AVATARMIKE MAGE FANATIC AND DEVILS ADVOCATE
Stiff, Dried, Creaking Monkey
I recall in one book or another seeing that the Spider-Dudes could not
tolerate human food, because of their natures, can only drink blood.
Doesn't thank fuck things up for them as children? Or am I completely
wrong?
Peace,
Tamdakh
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
satan
33.How long does it take to drain the blood entirely from a Sarcastic
person?
34. Does the blood of all sarcastic people taste like acid, or just those
with french sounding names and attitudes?
35. If you were to gather all sarcastic people and weigh them, would they
weigh as much as all of the Ananasi in existence, or does the hot air that
comes along with venomous sarcasm make them lighter?
36. Do sarcastic people actually have any honest opinions regarding a
serious question or do they just enjoy bothering other people with inane
prattle?
37. Sorry about that last one, it didn't have anything to do with
spiders/Ananasi/or the thread as a whole. Amend to:And what do Ananasi
think about Sarcastic people and their opinions?
38. I don't have anymore to say as of yet, depends on wether there is a 39
or not.....
Soonmot
>13. More detail on the forms, possible appearances for possible different
>breeds, and questions answered like.....Are there Metis Ananasi? Can an
>Ananasi become a ghoul or a Vampire? Can they learn magick like a Bastet?
>
now i know the new players guide addressed this but with the anansi have
differentLillian (the crinos, right?) forms, will there be a "choose your own
crinos" option as with the mokole? AN anansi who develops a six legged spider
abdomen is probably going to have things a little differnt than one sprouts
chitinos armour and four extra arms. The same goes for the anansi who has an
almost blank, but still human face, vs the giant 8 eyed spider monstrosity
complete with huge hungrey mandibles. Maybe these different forms are breed
based? Satan there pretty much asked the other questions that popped into my
head, so i'll just go away and begin my vigil.
---Mike
JUPITER THUNDER DRAGON
CRAAAAAASH!!!
members.aol.com/soonmot/main.html
ICQ: 31886917
"do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"
"I don't know where you pixies came from, but i sure like your magic pixie
juice!"
--Barney, The Simsons
Soonmot
born anansi! Sure they all turn into the same thing, but how did life as a
canabilisitc spider shape his world view?
Wild Druid
wyrm and a wyld one and a kinfolk wraith hunter)
1) Please give us more tribe gifts!
2) More Totems, they have to have more than the Queen at least.
3) Will we find out what happened to the queen?
The Druid
BArmor9292
1) the same question that pops up in Vampire - "What happens when I drink blood
from Splat X?"
Do Ananasi gain temperary Rage from Garou blood?
Does drinking Changeling blood enchant them?
Can they drink vampire blood, or are they allergic to it like the Garou are?
2) the ever present Abomination quetion. Personally, I'm of the opinion that
its pretty much impossable to embrace a were-spider against her will. (all she
has to do is shift to crawlerling mode) However, if one was willing, would it
work?
3) Gender.
Every picture I've seen of an Ananasi has been female. Every sample character
has been female. While I personally believe that, yes, there are male Ananasi,
I have yet to see anything that actually confirms this. So, could we please see
some male werespiders? Either as one of the templates, one of the who's who, or
one of the narrators.
(and yes, I am aware that there are male Kumo, but they aren't quite Ananasi)
and speaking of which:
4) The Kumo
the Players Guide mentioned that both the Kumoti (Wyld-spiders) and the Hatar
(Wyrm) are both found primarily in Asia, where they are known as the Kumo, and
that they have a great deal of influence over the other Hengeyokai.
However, Hengeyokai completely contradicts this. In it, the Kumo are all
servents of the Wyrm, and are more or less hated by the other Breeds.
Does Hengeyokai supersede the Players Guide or are there Wyld and Weaver
serving spiders in Asia who simply go out of thier way to avoid the Beast
Courts?
And thats all I can think of right now.
The Livewire
Horrors wrote in message <19990318004858...@ng23.aol.com>...
>Hi there.
>
>I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near
future.
>Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
>werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>book.
Can I play a were-spider with steel fur (hey, spiders are hairy) and yell
Terrorize before I go to Lillian? :-)
Seriously, other points people have raised all have merit. I do think a
long section about Anasazi/other blood types do need to be qualified.
Specifically (to me)
a) Ghouling Anasazi- Please none of tihs 'oh now they're alergic' Crap from
Ghouls FA *grumble*
b) Blood bond (And by association, Unbondable merit)
c) Disciplines (Scary thought of the day, Anasazi with a 7th gen blood
supply, crawlerings with fleshcraft)
Matt Roberts
> Hi there.
>
> I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near future.
Cool. I was hoping you'd be the one to do it.
> Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> book.
Okay. The Lilian form. The last time I asked you about it, you said you would like
to add more detailed rules on customizing their Crinos if you wrote the Breedbook.
Well, you've got it, so are you still planning on writing these up? (I hope so)
Also, in the Wild West Companion, the Ananasi were slightly different from those
presented in the Players Guide. I think you said you wrote the Players Guide
Ananasi, but did you have anything to do with those in the Companion? I ask,
because I liked a lot of the info in the WWC, and want to know how much of it will
make it to the Breedbook.
Ok, those are the two questions I'm most concerned with. I know you were wanting
questions on the Ananasi, and not the book, but those two things have been been in
the back of my mind for awhile now. Thanks for letting us know the Breedbook is in
the works, in any case.
>
>
> Keep Smiling,
>
> Jim Moore
Matt Roberts
------==Not posted via Deja-news, because it isn't working right at this
time==-----
Cyril Pasteau
>Continued from Mr. Sarcasm.
Do not consider my previous post like it ! It was a joke, not an attack ! No
harm intended. Me too, I love the goodness that is Jim Moore.
(Besides, Mr Moore, my question about Spiderman was pertinent, wasn't it ?
;-)
>33.How long does it take to drain the blood entirely from a Sarcastic
>person?
Funny.
>34. Does the blood of all sarcastic people taste like acid, or just those
>with french sounding names and attitudes?
I would really appreciate if Mr Moore would give to French people a special
and distinctive treatment in the breedbook. The acid-like blood thing is not
a bad idea.
>35. If you were to gather all sarcastic people and weigh them, would they
>weigh as much as all of the Ananasi in existence, or does the hot air that
>comes along with venomous sarcasm make them lighter?
I wonder why I have never asked myself such an interesting question. Thank
you for the "venomous sarcasm" part, Mr Satan, it gives me a new idea of
debate thread. Setite vs Ananasi, who wins ? At any day, I think that my
Setite is better than your Ananasi, but we must consider the fact that
Serpentis 1 is useless when the opponent has a hundred eyes.
>36. Do sarcastic people actually have any honest opinions regarding a
>serious question or do they just enjoy bothering other people with inane
>prattle?
Actually I really would have some use of a description of an Ananasi lair.
Wouldn't you ?
>37. Sorry about that last one, it didn't have anything to do with
>spiders/Ananasi/or the thread as a whole. Amend to:And what do Ananasi
>think about Sarcastic people and their opinions?
-> question 33
>38. I don't have anymore to say as of yet, depends on wether there is a 39
>or not.....
Funny. A little bit too serious, maybe. Do not go in a crusade against me,
please. It was just a joke, you know. The Commies are not conspiring to
poison your water with fluor, there is no need to launch a war.
Cyril
Ethan Skemp
> Specifically (to me)
> a) Ghouling Anasazi- Please none of tihs 'oh now they're alergic' Crap from
> Ghouls FA *grumble*
Anasazi are no more allergic to vitae than are Hopi, Ute, Paiute,
Blackfoot, or any other American Indian tribe.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Aristotle
>werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>book.
Well I think just about every question I may have had has been
answered here. I am glad to see that the breed book is being worked on
and hope to see it as well as the others come to print. Werewolf is
home of some of the most interesting storyline I have ever read
outside of a novel.
I would like to say one other thing. This is the first time I,
personally, have seen a writer come to the readers *before* writing.
Although all of you have been incredibly good about giving us FAQs and
answering our questions via usenet or Q&A sessions. Maybe, if we are
lucky, this will cut down on the confusion after the book is out. I
would like to see more of this kind of thing (although I am well aware
that you can't go telling us about every book your in the process of
writing. :)
Thank you for your ear,
--Aristotle
Soonmot
>
>satan a écrit dans le message <7crh8f$4i5$1...@news.xmission.com>...
>>Continued from Mr. Sarcasm.
>
>Do not consider my previous post like it ! It was a joke, not an attack ! No
>harm intended. Me too, I love the goodness that is Jim Moore.
>(Besides, Mr Moore, my question about Spiderman was pertinent, wasn't it ?
>;-)
>
personally i thoguht it was a joke too. and coe on, can't you just see some
folks asking those types of questions too?
REZcat
Eetr O Brain wrote:
>
>
> What I would most like in the Ananasi book is a vivid and
> complete decription of the Microcosm, the world from which all
> insect shifters come (came) from. This area of the book must be
> given AT LEAST as much detail as Garou get for the spirit world.
>
> The world, from an Ananasi perspective, is a very seperate place
> once in Crawlerling. I force my Ananasi players to make rolls to
> even percieve the Macrocosm correctly when within it - Looking up at
> a creature more than seven hundred times your height, and trying to
> understand what it is saying and doing while using segmented eyes,
> must be a daunting task at best. This tends to eliminate the most
> typical abuse my players had - Spying liberally. Without this check,
> Ananasi easily become more capable than the Nosforatu in this
> regard. With it, the stark differences between the world of humans
> and the world of insects grew even more apparant.
>
> In our game once an Ananasi shifted into Crawlerling it was like
> a completely seperate world. Forget combat with the Garou - You're
> now worrying about indiginous insects in this strange new place
> you've managed to walk yourself into while bipedal. And a strange
> place it is in most circumstances...
>
> The depth of the Microcosm is quite instantly apparant in many
> Discovery channel programs, which I hope that the WW staff studies
> intently looking for material ;). Imagine this world that the Garou
> completely ignore, the other shifters trample underfoot, even though
> it is no less important. To the Ananasi perspective, it might seem
> that the current problems with the world could be blamed upon this
> simple disregard of the 'little kingdoms'.
>
> Example - An Ananasi lives in an area with family for several
> centuries. Many generations have lived decades as both humans, and
> insects. Local insects see the Ananasi as the last of a once-great
> army of insect changers, and thus accord them great respect as
> ambassaders to the world of the Macrocosm. Ants, bees, beetles,
> worms... all of these creatures speak with the Ananasi regularly,
> just as wolves speak with Garou.
>
> When land developers come to ruin the area, the ants lose
> several colonies and appeal to the Lord of Spiders. The entity
> coagulates itself (As I imagine, at least in my canon, that most
> Ananasi spend most time discorperated) and gives itself a single
> form so that it can interfere with the Macrocosm and stop the ant
> apocolypse.
>
> A Garou would laugh at the Ananasi if they heard this story...
> though, to the Spider-shifters, it would be a sacred parable.
>
> Our campaign world was based upon the War of Roaches... the idea
> that the Roach spirit had decided (Not being an entirely ethical
> creatures) to disregard all traditional conceptions of Order and
> Law. The Ananasi are typically supposed to punish those that do
> this, but in the campaign the Spiders were ignoring this
> responsibility in favor of a civil war (As they often do). The
> players were left to try to reason with the roach tribes and get
> them to fall back.
>
> The Garou, once again, would see this as completely pointless.
>
> But it -wasn't- is the thing... these roaches of course carry
> disease, and since they infest the city they bring that disease into
> it. Thousands become ill, maybe even a few die, creating misery and
> torment beyond measure. In truth, the roach tribes can do far -more-
> damage to a city than a Pentex Strike Team.
>
> And the Ananasi are the only ones left to stop them.
>
> Why? Because of course, the other Changers long ago decided that
> insect shifters were disgusting and purged them. I'd imagine many
> other varieties existed, and I even brought a few of them forward as
> oracles and mentors in our Roach Wars chronicle.
>
> I always envisioned that they would share the same Crawlerling
> ability of the Ananasi, despite what insect they were. Beetles were
> able to become beetle armies, wasps were able to break into wasp
> swarms. Each had an agenda initially that conflicted slightly with
> the other insect shifters, but they were all dedicated to keeping
> the Microcosm in balance.
>
> I enourage others to use this concept in an Ananasi chronicle.
> Yes, I am a cheesy plagerist, and I was inspired by computer
> animated movies such as Antz and the aforementioned Discover
> programs. However, it's very very cool. And players have much more
> fun as Crawlerlings when they represent a hive-minded army of
> soldiers marching against an equal and terrible foe... cockroaches
> are easily the equal of many White Wolf wyrm-creations in terms of
> raw frightening potential and ickyness.
>
> That's not even getting into creatures like say, Digger Wasps,
> the insect on which the Alien was based upon. This little critter
> would kidnap spiders and drag them off to biomechanical-like lairs
> where they are impregnated with larvea that rupture from the thorax
> and feed upon the remains of the 'host'.
>
> I really hope that WW doesn't ignore this aspect of the Ananasi
> book.
Wow.
No, ...really,
Wow.
That was one of the best, thought provoking, posts regarding changing
breeds I have seen in a long time. After reading this, I would be
disappointed if ,indeed, this was not, at least touched upon in this
book.
Ethan Skemp
>
> Continued from Mr. Sarcasm.
> 37. Sorry about that last one, it didn't have anything to do with
> spiders/Ananasi/or the thread as a whole. Amend to:And what do Ananasi
> think about Sarcastic people and their opinions?
Like any creature with more than one dot of Intelligence, Ananasi
blatantly ignore Sarcastic people and what passes for their opinions.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
boy, talk about working on multiple levels...
Benson Hedges
I like the variable apperance of the Lillian form (crinos). It sould be a
good idea to perhaps make it customizable, like the mokole.
And merits and flaws galore. I LOVE Merits and Flaws.
Tiama'at
*I recall in one book or another seeing that the Spider-Dudes could not
*tolerate human food, because of their natures, can only drink blood.
*Doesn't thank fuck things up for them as children? Or am I completely
*wrong?
*
*Peace,
*Tamdakh
It has to do with physiology. A werespider, from birth (not first
change) have a slight drawback - as hemovores (blood-drinkers), their
digestive track isn't equiped to handle solid food - only liquids. As for
messing up kids, having a parent who really can have eyes in the back of their
head will f*ck you up enough, not to mention you parents are tolerated about
as much as satanic murdering pedophiles by other supernaturals (and by
extention, everything else).
Tiama'at
Doug Kern
<The_Li...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Horrors wrote in message <19990318004858...@ng23.aol.com>...
> >Hi there.
> >
> >I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near
> future.
> >Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> >werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> >book.
>
>
> Can I play a were-spider with steel fur (hey, spiders are hairy) and yell
> Terrorize before I go to Lillian? :-)
Oh no, Tarantulas and Blackarachnia have invaded the WoD! Run away! ;)
--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dke...@idt.net
Homepage: http://idt.net/~dkern2
Come visit the Shrine to Blackarachnia!:http://idt.net/~dkern2/Blackarachnia
Doug Kern
(Horrors) wrote:
> Hi there.
>
> I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near
future.
> Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> book.
>
Cool, now I have another book that will be on my must buy list. Any, I
would like to see some more gifts, since the write up in the WWPG 2nd,
really didn't have the room for the gift that such diverse animals such as
arachnids could have access too. Maybe some different breeds too, though
the triat affilation could cover this.
Definetly more detail on the Wyld aligned Ananasi, since to my knowldge
there really is nothing about them.
Maybe an explanation on how the Ananasi interact with the other
changing breeds.
I would like to see some stuff to help players get an idea on how the
mind set of being able to become a mass of spiders with one hive mind
would work.
The stuff about how kindred blood effects Ananasi, and maybe Kuei-Jin
blood as well, I don't remember reading about this in the stuff writen on
the Kumo.
I will probally think of more stuff, good luck writing it!
Timothy Toner
>
>I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near
future.
>Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
>werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>book.
>
>
>Jim Moore
It's great that you're openly soliciting questions from the consumer base.
It's a fantastic way to get around the pedants who whine that they didn't
cover "something as blatantly obvious as what sort of instant coffee they
use." My question, however, is a little more subtle. As a librarian, I've
spent a bit of time in the 398's (Folklore, for all those non-dewified
people out there), and it's interesting to note that the Ananasi stories
(spider as trickster and primal storyteller), when brought over to the New
World, presumably by the Africans in slavery, instantly became rabbits (a la
Brer Rabbit). Such a minor thing, yes, but rich with potential. What
happened?
comic...@my-dejanews.com
>
> I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near
future.
> Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> book.
I don't know if this is within your power, but I would really like to use
this book for Mage and Vampire but I do not own Werewolf, and have no plans
to. If there was a way to spell things out enough to make this more or less
standalone (ala the WoD line of books, "Gypsies," "Mummies," et cetera), you
could probably count on a few more sales.
(The same goes for the Rokea tribebook developer ...)
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Evil Tyger
satan wrote in message <7cqdlr$l1n$1...@news.xmission.com>...
>1.I understand that Ananasi have blood points and don't heal as typical
>shapechangers do but instead use blood points to heal. If I remember, they
>also have a couple of the abilities to use blood as a kindred does.
Perhaps
>this could be expanded on.
So if the Anasasi gets hurt, goes to Crawlerling, then reforms, she'd still
be hurt?
>
>2.Not a powergamer question, but perhaps there would be something to allow
>them to gather more blood points than they currently can now (10) so as to
>allow a little more healing or special abilities.
>
Well, if Shapechangers have doubly potent blood, would an Anasasi be
able to hold up to 20 points if it was all shapechanger blood? How many
Crawlerling spiders would be needed to take a single BP from a normal human?
>7. Famous Ananasi through history, those who may have made changes for the
>World and/or the World of Darkness.
>
Ti Malice, Ogun and Anansi (Mr. Spider, not the Queen)?
>
>12. Merits and Flaws, special abilities that might fit just for the
Ananasi.
>
Which VtM Flaws are good for them? (rather than WtA players having to pick
up VtM books)
>13. More detail on the forms, possible appearances for possible different
>breeds, and questions answered like.....Are there Metis Ananasi? Can an
>Ananasi become a ghoul or a Vampire? Can they learn magick like a Bastet?
There are Metis Kumo... but given how they are born, I'd say most ~smart~
Anasasi would avoid it.
Would think that a (willing) Anasasi would either turn into a pile of goo or
simply become a normal, "human" vampire upon Embrace.
>15. Since they don't have Rage, does Primal Urge do anything for them at
>all?
>
Primal-Urge is how connected they are to the "pure" animal in them, isn't
it? Instinct in aiding them to feed and get along with their animal
counterparts? Kinda a bit of "Survival & Etiquette" of the woods.
One new one about Breeding:
1 in ten is born true Anasasi?
For those who breed in Crawlerling, 1 in ten eggs or egg sacks? If half of a
male in Crawlerling's spiders mate in a season? If a female in Crawlerling
uses all her spiders breed simultaneuosly? These guys are supposed to be
rare?
Mirober
Eetr O Brain <eetro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
*snip*
Great stuff, man. A bit hard to read (all the tags), but definetly something I
hope Mr.Moore pays attention to.
Matt Roberts
"Unable to find his boomstick, Dr. Vulture attempts to convince the
natives of his divinity through a dramatic retelling of Hamlet."
-Dr. Vulture's Laboratory of Evil Science
Horrors
>now i know the new players guide addressed this but with the anansi have
>differentLillian (the crinos, right?) forms, will there be a "choose your own
>crinos" option as with the mokole? AN anansi who develops a six legged
>spider
>abdomen is probably going to have things a little differnt than one sprouts
>chitinos armour and four extra arms. The same goes for the anansi who has an
>almost blank, but still human face, vs the giant 8 eyed spider monstrosity
>complete with huge hungrey mandibles. Maybe these different forms are breed
>based? Satan there pretty much asked the other questions that popped into
>my
>head, so i'll just go away and begin my vigil.
>
>JUPITER THUNDER DRAGON
>CRAAAAAASH!!!
>members.aol.com/soonmot/main.html
>ICQ: 31886917
>"do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"
>"I don't know where you pixies came from, but i sure like your magic pixie
Hi there. All comments -- even the enthusiastically sarcastic ones--are going
to be weighed, but the questions above will be answered in depth.
Jim Moore
Horrors
>Just off the top of my head:
>
>1) the same question that pops up in Vampire - "What happens when I drink
>blood
>from Splat X?"
>Do Ananasi gain temperary Rage from Garou blood?
Nope.
>Does drinking Changeling blood enchant them?
Time will tell.
>Can they drink vampire blood, or are they allergic to it like the Garou are?
They can. As to the results...well, I have to leave a few secrets.
>2) the ever present Abomination quetion. Personally, I'm of the opinion that
>its pretty much impossable to embrace a were-spider against her will. (all
>she
>has to do is shift to crawlerling mode) However, if one was willing, would it
>work?
Well, embracing one involuntarily would pretty much be impossible under most
circumstances...for the rest, you'll have to wait.
>3) Gender.
>Every picture I've seen of an Ananasi has been female. Every sample character
>has been female. While I personally believe that, yes, there are male
>Ananasi,
>I have yet to see anything that actually confirms this. So, could we please
>see
>some male werespiders? Either as one of the templates, one of the who's who,
>or
>one of the narrators.
Yes, Virginia, there are male Ananasi. Much more detail on this particular
aspect will be forthcoming.
>(and yes, I am aware that there are male Kumo, but they aren't quite Ananasi)
You're right. They aren't.
>and speaking of which:
>
>4) The Kumo
>the Players Guide mentioned that both the Kumoti (Wyld-spiders) and the Hatar
>(Wyrm) are both found primarily in Asia, where they are known as the Kumo,
>and
>that they have a great deal of influence over the other Hengeyokai.
>However, Hengeyokai completely contradicts this. In it, the Kumo are all
>servents of the Wyrm, and are more or less hated by the other Breeds.
>Does Hengeyokai supersede the Players Guide or are there Wyld and Weaver
>serving spiders in Asia who simply go out of thier way to avoid the Beast
>Courts?
That would be telling. But the answers will be in the Ananasi Tribebook, and
there will also be expanded information on the Kumo.
Thanks,
Jim
Horrors
>Eetr O Brain wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What I would most like in the Ananasi book is a vivid and
>> complete decription of the Microcosm, the world from which all
>> insect shifters come (came) from. This area of the book must be
>> given AT LEAST as much detail as Garou get for the spirit world.
>>
>> The world, from an Ananasi perspective, is a very seperate place
>> once in Crawlerling. I force my Ananasi players to make rolls to
>> even percieve the Macrocosm correctly when within it - Looking up at
Oh, my yes. It is a very different world for the Ananasi. My compliments to
the original poster or this thread, because it is indeed an impostant aspect of
Ananasi. Here's a little secret for you: The Wyrm works in small ways too....
Jim
Horrors
>Here's one thing I'd like to see changed:
>
>Peace,
>Tamdakh
>
>
>
>
Actually, Second Edition Players Guide rectified that. Seemed a bit too extreme
to me, so I fixed it.
Jim
Horrors
>1) Please give us more tribe gifts!
>2) More Totems, they have to have more than the Queen at least.
>3) Will we find out what happened to the queen?
>
Gifts will be numerous.
Possibly more totems. I'm toying with some stuff.
Yes. You will find out a great deal more about Ananasa
Jim Moore
Horrors
>
>> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>> book.
>
>like
>to add more detailed rules on customizing their Crinos if you wrote the
>Breedbook.
>Well, you've got it, so are you still planning on writing these up? (I hope
>so)
>Also, in the Wild West Companion, the Ananasi were slightly different from
>those
>presented in the Players Guide. I think you said you wrote the Players Guide
>Ananasi, but did you have anything to do with those in the Companion? I ask,
>because I liked a lot of the info in the WWC, and want to know how much of it
>will
>make it to the Breedbook.
I didn't write them for WWC, but what is there is very pertinent.Yep.
>Ok, those are the two questions I'm most concerned with. I know you were
>wanting
>questions on the Ananasi, and not the book, but those two things have been
>been in
>the back of my mind for awhile now. Thanks for letting us know the Breedbook
>is in
>the works, in any case.
My pleasure.
Jim
Horrors
>personally, have seen a writer come to the readers *before* writing.
>Although all of you have been incredibly good about giving us FAQs and
>answering our questions via usenet or Q&A sessions. Maybe, if we are
>lucky, this will cut down on the confusion after the book is out. I
>would like to see more of this kind of thing (although I am well aware
>that you can't go telling us about every book your in the process of
>writing. :)
>
>Thank you for your ear
Aristotle,
I wanted to do this, because I really want to get the feedback and find out
what everyone wants. So, it's my pleasure. It's rare that I can do this sort of
thing and let people know in advance, but as this is a tribebook, (about those
cute, fuzzy and horribly misunderstood souls who really are the true heroees of
the World of Darkness, just ask 'em.) I felt it was a risk I could take.
It has already gotten my creative juices dancing in sme interesting ways, so
it's been productive.
Jim
Horrors
>I don't know if this is within your power, but I would really like to use
>this book for Mage and Vampire but I do not own Werewolf, and have no plans
>to. If there was a way to spell things out enough to make this more or less
>standalone (ala the WoD line of books, "Gypsies," "Mummies," et cetera), you
>could probably count on a few more sales.
>
>(The same goes for the Rokea tribebook developer ...)
>
heartily recommend the COMBAT book, as it has strong rules for handling
crossovers and could well make it an easier task. Beyoind that I have to defer
to Ethan.
Jim
man...@geocities.com
"Evil Tyger" <tyg...@flash.net> wrote:
> One new one about Breeding:
>
> 1 in ten is born true Anasasi?
>
> For those who breed in Crawlerling, 1 in ten eggs or egg sacks? If half of a
> male in Crawlerling's spiders mate in a season? If a female in Crawlerling
> uses all her spiders breed simultaneuosly? These guys are supposed to be
> rare?
For a newborn Crawlerling Breed to become proper Annanasi they need the
bodymass. To do that they have to eat other spiders, hundreds of them. So
while a lot of potential Crawlerlings Annasi may be born, most won't make it.
And thats apart from all the myraid other threats baby spiders are under.
Mant
World of Darkness Storyteller Resources
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/7960/
Kintaro Oe
>them to gather more blood points than they currently can now (10) so as to
>allow a little more healing or special abilities.
sounds good to me too. perhaps the value can increase with Rank/age.
>3. More information on the Queen please as well as a possible detailed
>history of the Queen and the Ananasi as a whole and how they fit into the
>history of the World of Darkness.
I think that there should be -at least- 3 different tales about the
Queen and why the Ananasi are in the bind they are.
Too many of the splatbooks are distressingly clear about the past.
>
>4. Possible other breeds of Ananasi, like their are different types of
>spiders. Perhaps some with Venom, spinnerets, leaping, web parachutes,
>effects of a web like certain spiders, etc.
actually, I think this would be best served as simply more Gifts. I
didn't really like the Wolf Spiders from Wild West. They were design
as boogeymen, nothing more.
>
>5. Possibly something kinda vicious like the ability of many spiders to use
>a poison that liquefies the internal parts of an opponent so that they may
>suck the insides out for food. Yes I know that this is very gross, but no
>more so than other aspects of the World of Darkness.
again, that's something under the Gift umbrella.
>
>6. Groups of Ananasi, like a Coterie, or Pack all based upon a certain theme
>or idea.
the think is spiders aren't pack animals in the least, really. Why
should the Ananasi? They shouldn't be any more social than the Gurahl
or Bastet.
>13. More detail on the forms, possible appearances for possible different
>breeds, and questions answered like.....Are there Metis Ananasi? Can an
>Ananasi become a ghoul or a Vampire? Can they learn magick like a Bastet?
definitely good.
and I think that anyone can learn hedge magic. Adding more "this group
only, nyah nyah nyah" bits would be a great folly.
an exploration of the variations among the forms would be useful.
>14. Can they time? For example, if an Ananasi character turns herself into
>crawlerling form and wanders around, lets say the Sears Tower. How many are
>there and can the character possibly perceive every room in the tower at
>once? This is an awesome power and can be possibly abused.
and just how can the Ananasi use crawlerling form? Can they partially
shapeshift a hand into a mass of spiders?
I think that they should be allowed to go all the way here, it makes
them just as powerful as the other shifters, but in a -radically-
different way.
>18. How they gain rank, or do they?
this, and a lot of your other questions are mentioned (if briefly) in
the 2nd Edition Player's Guide.
>may have more later for you. I appreciate your working on this. :)
>frenzy, or since they don't have Rage are they immune?
I could see that...
>15. Since they don't have Rage, does Primal Urge do anything for them at
>all?
shifting.
>16. Is there a limit to the number of Crawlerlings that an Ananasi can use
>to spy with at one
as many as are extant in the body.
can Ananasi step sideways?
and it'd be nice if the Wyld and Weaver Ananasi were taken from a
different direction than other shifters. Don't make the Weaver ones
Glass Walker clones, please.
kabael
my sig will slowly regenerate... give it time...
http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins/
Eetr O Brain
I have a question as well for the author... can mixed morphing be used
by Ananasi to insure immortality in other forms? For example, can a
Spider drop a few Crawlerlings out of his hat and be able to engage in
combat while in Lilian-Homid form? It would seem to follow. This would
make Ananasi practicly unstoppable, assaulting enemies in Warform and
then returning from the dead mere weeks later. I like it.
Keep in mind the merit mixed morph only allows this to be done
-easier-... all shifters can, supposadly, do this innately. I believe.
And it only stands to follow that nearly all Ananasi would. I imagine
that you would be hard pressed to find an Ananasi at any time that does
not have -some- smaller reflection wandering around somewhere as an
insurance policy.
While on that subject, what would the rules be for keeping said
Crawlerlings out of body while shifting forms? Would it be possible at
all? Would it add to difficulty? Example - Horus drops a Crawlerling out
of his shirt before entering battle with a Pentex First Team while in
Homid form. He then assumes Lilian form, as the Crawlerlings scurry
away, and gives the survivors permenent mental damage even though he is
eventually brought down by a .50 calibur machine gun.
Is this how the Ananasi were supposed to be interpreted? Because it's
how I got them - I eventually decided that in my canon, all the other
Shifters wholeheartadly believed that the Ananasi were immortal. A hive
mind in all ways, if all the spiders were destroyed they simply found
new 'hosts' rather like a peculiar sort of bane. A flawed belief but,
quite logical from the perspective of the others. Much more logical
than, say, 'Must destroy all of them or they can eat back to full size'.
I'd say that requires Ananasi Lore of like, 3 at least.
Shogun XCT
Mo-Hong wood be explained?
And will the Anasai be vunaralble to anything besides black flag or Raid?
Scorpions are also part of the Arachnid family. A falling out between Scorps.
and Spiders back in the day could prove in interesting story. No ones asking
for another changing breed, just a taste of what exactly got killed off during
the War.
Ethan Skemp
> I don't know if this is within your power, but I would really like to use
> this book for Mage and Vampire but I do not own Werewolf, and have no plans
> to. If there was a way to spell things out enough to make this more or less
> standalone (ala the WoD line of books, "Gypsies," "Mummies," et cetera), you
> could probably count on a few more sales.
>
> (The same goes for the Rokea tribebook developer ...)
It would be damn difficult to reprint all the pertinent rules on Rites,
Gifts, the Umbra, Renown, and the various Werewolf-specific quirks;
effectively, you'd have to make the book a hardcover standalone to
re-explain everything like "Gnosis," "Primal-Urge" and the like.
Although it would be easier for folks like you, I don't think I can
justify repeating so much material when the majority of buyers will be
Werewolf players -- stealing from one hand to fill the other, as it
were.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Stiff, Dried, Creaking Monkey
Actually, Second Edition Players Guide rectified that. Seemed a bit too
extreme to me, so I fixed it.
Jim
Thanks a billion. Part of my problem with that "Can
only drink blood" rule was the concept that a Changer
is a Changer from birth, in which case, two Ananasi
Kinfolk have kiddies and have a baby, who, for some
reason, won't eat anything and dies. Basically,
anyone born to Ananasi Kinfolk who don't have major
Ananasi (I love typing that word) lore, dies of
starvation. Thought it was kind fo extreme.
Peace,
Tamdakh
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
Ethan Skemp
> Thanks a billion. Part of my problem with that "Can
> only drink blood" rule was the concept that a Changer
> is a Changer from birth, in which case, two Ananasi
> Kinfolk have kiddies and have a baby, who, for some
> reason, won't eat anything and dies. Basically,
> anyone born to Ananasi Kinfolk who don't have major
> Ananasi (I love typing that word) lore, dies of
> starvation. Thought it was kind fo extreme.
To be fair, though, so far we really don't know *that* much about homid
Ananasi reproduction. I think it wouldn't be entirely out of place to
note that the First Change enacts some really funky changes on an
Ananasi's Homid form as well, much as the Birthing Plague or a hatching
Spirit Egg can turn a previously mortal person into a shapechanger (only
not as extreme). It's not the sort of thing that merits a description in
the (packed for space) PG2, but that would be necessary for the actual
Breed Book. Like Yava or something.
I'm also in favor of the change, though. It makes the Ananasi even
creepier when you realize that they basically drink blood to be better
at their job.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Kintaro Oe
>Mechanics. At the very least, I'd like a quick-reference guide in the back.
>The background and stories are great, but they can get in the way when you
>forgot what you need to roll to shift to Crawlerling and need to look it up
>real quick.
the Book of Worlds was set up that way, and it worked out extremely
well, IMHO.
Kintaro Oe
>-easier-... all shifters can, supposadly, do this innately. I believe.
>And it only stands to follow that nearly all Ananasi would. I imagine
>that you would be hard pressed to find an Ananasi at any time that does
>not have -some- smaller reflection wandering around somewhere as an
>insurance policy.
I'd say that they can do it, but I always saw the mixed-morphing
ability as taking a reasonable amount of concentration. I.e., the
spider could do it, but increase all difficulties by +2 until
reformed. That's how I'd handle it.
What I would like to know about more involving the crawlerlings in
combat. Anyone else remember that story the Old Man mentioned in the
Wild West Companion about the Glass Walker taking on an Ananasi. He
punched the spider in the chest, only to have the Ananasi shift and
swarm across his entire body. Some detail on that would be nice.
> Is this how the Ananasi were supposed to be interpreted? Because it's
>how I got them - I eventually decided that in my canon, all the other
>Shifters wholeheartadly believed that the Ananasi were immortal. A hive
>mind in all ways, if all the spiders were destroyed they simply found
>new 'hosts' rather like a peculiar sort of bane. A flawed belief but,
>quite logical from the perspective of the others. Much more logical
>than, say, 'Must destroy all of them or they can eat back to full size'.
>I'd say that requires Ananasi Lore of like, 3 at least.
definitely, I think that the immortal aspect of the Ananasi would be a
very, very nice tidbit. It would also increase their resemblence to
the Cainites, "So obviously they are Wyrm-tainted, Aaargh!!"
and please, keep the tight alliances to a minimum. Other breeds
usually only associate with the Garou on a limited, individual basis,
Kintaro Oe
>> male in Crawlerling's spiders mate in a season? If a female in Crawlerling
>> uses all her spiders breed simultaneuosly? These guys are supposed to be
>> rare?
>For a newborn Crawlerling Breed to become proper Annanasi they need the
>bodymass. To do that they have to eat other spiders, hundreds of them. So
>while a lot of potential Crawlerlings Annasi may be born, most won't make it.
>
and not to mention that it's 1/100 for spiders, I believe.
>And thats apart from all the myraid other threats baby spiders are under.
definitely. they aren't much more than hungry spiders for a long
time...
Kintaro Oe
>werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
>book.
I really have to say "Don't make the Weaver Ananasi techno-nuts and
Glass Walker clones."
that just keeps popping into my mind, again and again.
comic...@my-dejanews.com
True. But a single page "cheat sheet" with the same level of non-detail as
for the generic nasties in the back of each of the core books (like the
Chimera in the first edition of Werewolf, just off the top of my head) would
go a long way towards making this a saleable product. And to stop the
Werewolf players from grousing, similar single pages could be put in other
books. (I REALLY think BDT needed something like this to make the Rokea
available to everyone.)
A single page would remove the barriers to purchasing the product for those
like myself (and I have to believe we're not in the minority) who would like
to use elements of other WW games to keep things interesting but don't, say,
want to buy the Werewolf hardcover and the player's guide just to be able to
use a third book.
But if it doesn't seem practical, so be it. But for me, that's what I'd need
to pick up one of the Bete books. I'd love to have all of them, but buying
$50 of introductory material means that ain't gonna happen.
Eetr O Brain
Here here. I'd much rather see the Weaver inclinations put forth as
fascist beliefs and a ordered, caste society... not all creatures
identify the Weaver with technolagy, after all. One must imagine that to
the insect kingdom, the Weaver is represented more by Instinct - The
urge to continue along with routine and established order that is both
unseen and constant.
The super technolagy gets very old with shifters.
Eetr O Brain
Allow me to take you through some math that shows just how easy it is
for an Ananasi to rebuild himself. It doesn't take months. In fact, it
doesn't take more than a few days. Once again, personally, I -like-
this... I just want to make sure it was intended.
Let us presume that said Ananasi has been reduced to a single spider
host. Yes, one spider. Let us also assume that said spiders have a
typical weight... one tenth of a gram. Don't ask me how I know this, but
I do. It's the average arachnid size.
So, one tenth of a gram... ten spiders in a gram. Twenty-eight grams in
an ounce. Sixteen ounces in a pound. That's four thousand, four hundred
and eighty spiders per pound.
That's lots of spiders.
But, let us follow our little lone Ananasi on his journey... and let us
assume that it takes roughly four hours for said Ananasi to find another
spider to eat. Something like one hundred thousand spiders exist in the
average acre of land, so it's not that difficult for said Ananasi to
find food. Four hours is probably a bit excessive, but just for the sake
of argument.
Day One -
Four hours later, two spiders are hunting.
Four hours later, four spiders are hunting.
Four hours later, eight spiders are hunting.
Four hours later, sixteen spiders are hunting.
And so on. Eventually, at the end of a twenty-four hour period, said
Ananasi now is in control of sixty-four Crawlerlings.
Day two -
The Ananasi hits the first pound today - Four thousand and ninety-six
spiders remain after all is said and done. Hell, let's even attribute
some casualties to the little critters... even though they can mob other
insects and remove most of the possibility of death. Not counting
regeneration and Gifts (Yes, I believe regeneration still applies in the
Microcosm and I also believe that many Ananasi gifts are specificly
intended for the Crawlerling world). So, let's say a thousand spiders
bit it. That's one fourth. Once again, probably a bit excessive... just
for the sake of argument.
Day three -
Even given these high casualty rates, today the Ananasi reaches fourty
pounds. One hundred and ninety eight thousand spiders have been
consumed. The area begins to suffer the ecological damage of losing such
a large segment of the arachnid population, but the slack is easily
taken up by the remaining population. Most Ananasi, I imagine, would be
smart enough to leave the very young or egg sacks.
Day four -
By the most conservitive of estimates, the Ananasi is now easily able of
completely restoring his body. Spiders don't sleep, but if one wants to
apply an eight hour rest cycle to these figures it only takes a day
more.
One must imagine that Garou believe war with the Ananasi is pretty
futile. I'd think that the other Shifters think largely the same thing.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say I believe that the Ananasi would be far
more feared than the Nagah... and I personally believe the Nagah would
be absolutely terrified of something they couldn't really kill. A
rivalry between these two factions would be very interesting and
thematicly correct.
Anyway, once again... another two cents...
Aristotle
>and Spiders back in the day could prove in interesting story. No ones asking
>for another changing breed, just a taste of what exactly got killed off during
>the War.
It is quite clear that the world has all the changing breeds it really
needs, but it would still be interesting to hear some aspects of the
breeds that didn't make it.
I mean.. ok there are no werebats.. I can live with this, but it may
be interesting to see somewhere what they may have been called or why
the others felt it was necessary to drive them into extinction.. ok
I'm rambling.. I'll shadup now :P
--Aristotle
ICQ#: 5006172
Dragon9
The werebats were called the Camatozt (or was it the Camazot? I can't
seem to find it in any of the Wild West Books all of a sudden). They
were the messengers of Gaia (a role later picked up by the Corax). The
y were killed off because they looked like wyrm thingies and therefore
must have been wyrm thingies. At least according to the Garou.
Evan
--
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Evan's Quote of the month:
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contributed a line to the Bible."
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kis...@mindspring.com
>seem to find it in any of the Wild West Books all of a sudden).
Camazotz.
> They
>were the messengers of Gaia (a role later picked up by the Corax).
Actually, what I read was that they were night--spies, while the Corax are
day-spies.
Kish
Red Raptor
do it faster than that with a level 2 gift: replenishment of the flesh.
All the spider has to do is spend a gnosis per health level they want to
heal.
Homids would take awhile to regrow themselves this way(they start with
one gnosis) but arachnos breed could have themselves in good shape real
fast, the start with 5 gnosis. Now by rank 2 they should have gained at
least one gnosis, which mean that arachnos could have themselves up to
hurt -1 in no time, like a couple hours.
Red Raptor
Horrors wrote:
>
> Hi there.
>
> I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near future.
> Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> book.
>
> Keep Smiling,
I want to know more about totems(queeny, etc) About fetishes(I'm sure
the spiders must have a few things) and about how they interact with
spirits and the umbra.
Doug Kern
some stuff on how blood carried illnesses effect Ananasi. With Hepatitis
and ADIS, feeding if you are an Ananais could be very dangerous.
--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dke...@idt.net
Homepage: http://idt.net/~dkern2
Come visit the Shrine to Blackarachnia!:http://idt.net/~dkern2/Blackarachnia
Antricault, The Oracle
found is that they were created by the Weaver and some of them eventuall
began to follow the others of the Triat. But nothing on their purpose.
--
Antricault, "The" Oracle, and finder of all things quirky.
Mirober
aris...@blazenet.net (Aristotle) wrote:
> It is quite clear that the world has all the changing breeds it really
> needs, but it would still be interesting to hear some aspects of the
> breeds that didn't make it.
>
> I mean.. ok there are no werebats.. I can live with this, but it may
> be interesting to see somewhere what they may have been called or why
> the others felt it was necessary to drive them into extinction.. ok
> I'm rambling.. I'll shadup now :P
Most likely, the various changing breed exterminations are blamed on the
Garou. Maybe that's true, maybe not. The Garou make excellent scape goats,
after all.
I'm not saying the Garou are innocent. Far from it, they are a bunch of
psychotic death machines. I just have trouble believing they were the only
breed to come out of the War of Rage with blood on their hands.
They were, however, the last ones still standing after the conflict was over.
And in the end, that's whats most important.
> --Aristotle
> ICQ#: 5006172
>
Matt Roberts
"Unable to find his boomstick, Dr. Vulture attempts to convince the
natives of his divinity through a dramatic retelling of Hamlet."
-Dr. Vulture's Laboratory of Evil Science
Webwalker
> Hi there.
> I'm doing the Ananasi tribeook for Werewolf: The Apocalypse in the near future.
> Now would be a good time to shoot all those questions you have about the
> werespiders my way. I may not answer them now, but I certainly will in the
> book.
Rereading Hengeyokai, specifically the part about the War of Shame, and
then noticing that there is only one kind of arachnid/insect type of
shifter has me wondering; was there a kind of War of Rage/Shame in the
insect world, and, if there was, will there be any kind of information
about it in the Anasasi Tribebook?
(this kinda fits with the Roeka tribebook, but if he asks for questions
separately, I'll ask him there.)
Horrors
>by Ananasi to insure immortality in other forms? For example, can a
>Spider drop a few Crawlerlings out of his hat and be able to engage in
>combat while in Lilian-Homid form? It would seem to follow. This would
>make Ananasi practicly unstoppable, assaulting enemies in Warform and
>then returning from the dead mere weeks later. I like it.
>
>-easier-... all shifters can, supposadly, do this innately. I believe.
>And it only stands to follow that nearly all Ananasi would. I imagine
>that you would be hard pressed to find an Ananasi at any time that does
>not have -some- smaller reflection wandering around somewhere as an
>insurance policy.
>
>Crawlerlings out of body while shifting forms? Would it be possible at
>all? Would it add to difficulty? Example - Horus drops a Crawlerling out
>of his shirt before entering battle with a Pentex First Team while in
>Homid form. He then assumes Lilian form, as the Crawlerlings scurry
>away, and gives the survivors permenent mental damage even though he is
>eventually brought down by a .50 calibur machine gun.
>
>how I got them - I eventually decided that in my canon, all the other
>Shifters wholeheartadly believed that the Ananasi were immortal. A hive
>mind in all ways, if all the spiders were destroyed they simply found
>new 'hosts' rather like a peculiar sort of bane. A flawed belief but,
>quite logical from the perspective of the others. Much more logical
>than, say, 'Must destroy all of them or they can eat back to full size'.
>I'd say that requires Ananasi Lore of like, 3 at least.
>
>
>
>
You may rest assured that a good sized chink of the rules will deal with this
very situation. The benefits and the side effects of playing crawlerling games.
More details will, naturally, have to wait for the book.
Jim
--*--
turning into a nine to ten foot furry killing machine is enough to be
severely traumatic for anyone, then imagine turning into something that
isn't even mammalian...or reptilian, or avian...the First Change has to be
a real horrific experience...even for the WoD...
The image of a First Change would probably be on par with any Japanese
Hentai movie...(which I find usually pretty gross and unwatchable...call me
a prude, but I've never found for example; rape all that entertaining...)
--
--*--
"Life's no fun without a good scare!"
"This is Halloween", Nightmare before Christmas
Achamoth
1. Can the Ananasi step sideways? Do they require mirrors, shadows, etc.?
What is they're relationship with spirits, namely insectile ones (roach, etc)?
2. Maybe a merit/system for allowing more customization of the Lillian form.
Possibilities include more powerful bite/talons, abilities to climb surfaces,
hardened carapace, etc. Also, do the Ananasi lose/gain any perception, etc
while in Lilian or Pithus, as they can have multiple eyes (possible 360
vision), but I believe that spiders sight is more light/dark based than
shape/movement based (i think, correct me if im wrong).
3. Can they use their blood to heal Agg damage, or are they just like vamps?
Most of the other stuff was already asked. The microcosm stuff is crazy
(cool, though), and kinda frightening, when you think about the sheer scale
of the war you'd be fighting...ugh, switch to homid and step on 'em! ;)
Thanks for your time!
Achamoth of the crawly guys.
woodelf
<than...@interaccess.com> wrote:
> use." My question, however, is a little more subtle. As a librarian, I've
> spent a bit of time in the 398's (Folklore, for all those non-dewified
> people out there), and it's interesting to note that the Ananasi stories
> (spider as trickster and primal storyteller), when brought over to the New
> World, presumably by the Africans in slavery, instantly became rabbits (a la
> Brer Rabbit). Such a minor thing, yes, but rich with potential. What
> happened?
nothing. Rabbit and Spider were both Tricksters in the beliefs of
several African peoples. Rabbit was also a Trickster to several Native
american peoples, mostly from what is now Mexico, Texas, and New Mexico.
likewise, Grandmother Spider is an important figure in some of the SW
Native Americans' beliefs, but she's not much of a trickster, just a
creator. AFAIK, Spider and Rabbit don't both appear as Tricksters in the
same mythology--the only pairings i can think of off the top of my head
are Rabbit and Tortoise, Rabbit and Coyote, Raven and Coyote, and Spider
and Tortoise--and i'm not even sure of all of those--i may be conflating
some mythologies in my head. anyway, Spider didn't "become" Rabbit.
rather, you're looking at two (or more) different sets of myths, from two
(or more) different peoples, and either you or your source material are
wrongly conflating them. only after they had reached the new world and
been transformed for a generation or two did the two begin to really mix
at all. the biggest changes in coming to the New World that i'm aware of
for the two, btw, are in name. Anansi became "Aunt Nancy" in order to
circumvent slave-owner prohibitions against practicing or even discussing
the old religions. Rabbit became, eventually, Br'er Rabbit, but i believe
that change didn't happen until he was adopted by the white folk.
[btw, that's "Ananse" or "Anansi". "Ananasi" is an invented word, though
i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
American consciousness.]
woodelf <*>
nbar...@students.wisc.edu
http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~woodelf/
I did not realize that similarity was required for the exercise of
compassion. --Delenn
woodelf
> True. But a single page "cheat sheet" with the same level of non-detail as
> for the generic nasties in the back of each of the core books (like the
> Chimera in the first edition of Werewolf, just off the top of my head) would
> go a long way towards making this a saleable product. And to stop the
> Werewolf players from grousing, similar single pages could be put in other
> books. (I REALLY think BDT needed something like this to make the Rokea
> available to everyone.)
>
> A single page would remove the barriers to purchasing the product for those
> like myself (and I have to believe we're not in the minority) who would like
> to use elements of other WW games to keep things interesting but don't, say,
> want to buy the Werewolf hardcover and the player's guide just to be able to
> use a third book.
>
> But if it doesn't seem practical, so be it. But for me, that's what I'd need
> to pick up one of the Bete books. I'd love to have all of them, but buying
> $50 of introductory material means that ain't gonna happen.
welcome to my world. i can't stand V:tM, and am generally not interested
in vampires. but too much of the "generic" info (the original WoD: books)
is pretty hard to use withouth Vampire. you shoulda seen us winging a
Mummy in the game [though i understand the 2nd ed of WoD: Mummy finally
includes everything you need to play mummies]. and don't even ask about
the original Hunters Hunted (though the new game coming out will probably
solve that issue, too). and since V:tM is apparently still the
best-selling of the WoD games, i don't expect to see this changing anytime
soon. [i have to confess a *very* small amount of glee at the concept of
V:tM players getting stymied by a non-Vampire book that interests them,
after all the times this non-V:tM player (and my group) has been stymied
by books that interested me but tied too closely into Vampire.]
on a related note, i should ask here: do Kindred of the East or The Guide
to the Sabbat have complete rules, so that i can play them without a copy
of V:tM? i'm sure somebody told me once on the former, but i've
forgotten. both of them cover critters that interest me for gaming, but
not badly enough to also buy V:tM (of any edition) in order to use them;
i'd rather just make it up myself if i'm gonna end up winging it a lot due
to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
woodelf
> >Scorpions are also part of the Arachnid family. A falling out between
Scorps.
> >and Spiders back in the day could prove in interesting story. No ones
asking
> >for another changing breed, just a taste of what exactly got killed off
during
> >the War.
>
> It is quite clear that the world has all the changing breeds it really
> needs, but it would still be interesting to hear some aspects of the
> breeds that didn't make it.
>
> I mean.. ok there are no werebats.. I can live with this, but it may
> be interesting to see somewhere what they may have been called or why
> the others felt it was necessary to drive them into extinction.. ok
> I'm rambling.. I'll shadup now :P
actually, i find it really interesting to see which changing breeds
they've included, and which they've skipped. there are, in *very* broad
terms, two sources of shapeshifters in RL mythologies: shapeshifters, and
gods. the former comes with lots of variation--curses, a la European and
NA werewolf myths; animals that can take human form, such as selkies and
Japanese cats (forget the proper name); races that naturally have multiple
forms, such as hengeyokai; people who've learned a special magical skill,
such as berserkers (in some versions); and animal spirits trapped in human
form, such as loa-legba, to name a few. but the latter pretty much comes
in only one motif--the Trickster. in almost every mythology, Trickster
is, among other things, a shapeshifter. and in several (many? most?)
mythologies, Trickster is the only shapeshifter. often, other gods can
take multiple forms, but it isn't very strongly associated with their
nature or spheres of influence. now, sometimes there is no particular
association of form--Zeus will take the form of just about anything in
order to get laid. [aside: is he really the closest thing to a Trickster
in Greek mythology? the only other candidate i can think of right now is
Bacchus, who emobodies the chaos aspect, but Trickster is usually a
creator, and none of the Greek gods are really creators--they inherited a
world already created. Prometheus sorta fits, in the sense of helping
humanity and going against the other gods, but he's usually portrayed as
far too dignified.] but often Trickster has a preferred form, or has an
animal as his primary form (Trickster is almost always a he)--Tezcatlipoca
most often takes the form of a smoky mirror or a jaguar (when he's not a
human), while Coyote and Spider are, well, a coyote and a spider.
so, WWGS has drawn on both of these sources to come up with the changing
breeds. from mythological shapeshifters, we get wolves (NA, European,
possibly others), bears (European, NA), crocs (Egyptian), sharks (S
Pacific, Amazon basin?), hengeyokai (Japanese, possibly other Oriental),
cats (Japanese, Chinese, European) and wildcats (Chinese, European,
Indian, C American, NA, Carribean, others), foxes (Oriental). from
Tricksters we have spiders (various African), ravens (Pacific NW), and
coyotes (NA). that leaves rats, hyenas, and snakes as the only ones of
the changing breeds for which i'm aware of no significant mythological
antecedent. in the cases of both hyenas and snakes, i have vague memories
of appropriate myths, but can't think of any off the top of my head. in
all three cases, its not all that unlikely that there are appropriate
myths about them that i've simple forgotten or never run across. but if
my knowledge is representative and my memory accurate, they are all WWGS
inventions. which isn't bad--i personally think that all 3 are
interesting additions, and have plausible bases. wererats, in particular,
just feel like they *should* be in somebody's myths, even if they aren't.
but what about other shapeshifters in those two categories that haven't
been translated into changing breeds? where are the rest of the animal
Tricksters--Rabbit and Tortoise, for starters? why do some of the world's
Tricksters have a changing breed as a potential basis for their stories
and others not? were there once wererabbits and weretortoises? and,
IIRC, the Trickster figure for some Wisconsin tribes is Beaver, so what
about werebeavers? what about the other shapeshifters in mythology that
figure prominently? the loa-legba, frex. they, like the hengeyokai,
include not only some of the same animals (great cats--in this case
leopard, lion, and cheetah), but many new ones: bat, elephant, hawk,
jackal, mongoose, and monkey, and possibly others (depending on who you
ask). and in some versions Quetzlcoatl's chosen could take the form of
the eagle to combat the followers of Tezcatlipoca, who could take the form
of a Jaguar. and lest anybody propose the truly silly, i don't think a
one-time transformation due to witch's spell, and subsequent reversion, is
sufficient justification for including as a changing breed werefrogs. not
that any of these creatures need to be added to the WoD-- they could all
have been killed off in the Rage Wars--but it would be interesting to know
if they *did* at one time exist. and if they never existed in the WoD, it
would be interesting to hear why the creatures at teh basis of some of the
myths are real, nd others aren't--or, alternately, how some world
mythologies are different due to their lack (picture a WoD where Rabbit
wasn't a Trickster, and thus there was no Br'er Rabbit, and no Bugs
Bunny). rather than a proliferation of changing breeds, i'd love to see
explanations and/or adjustments to account for where the WoD deviates from
RL mythologies, and why some shapeshifters are changing breeds, while
others are merely stories.
Kintaro Oe
>to the Sabbat have complete rules, so that i can play them without a copy
>of V:tM?
KotE is pretty much self-contained.
>to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
>has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
>or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
it's a supplement for the game, it doesn't have really any level 1-5
Disciplines, and only the higher-level Sabbat-only ones.
making it totally self-contained would be kinda silly and
space-wasting.
Destil
I haven't finished reading the Sabbat Guide yet, but I don't believe it will be worth much without the primary V:tM book.
I normally play LARP, so this next statement comes from a completely different system, but a similar mindset, at least initially.
I had no interest in either the Wraith or Werewolf systems when I first began playing Vampire. However when I took the game over I found myself needing more information on the other species in the World of Darkness (at the time not realizing the games were not built completely for crossovers). I purchased The Laws of the Wild and I enjoyed the reading, I even enjoyed the game. Although this has not changed my personal preference of a Vampire game and vampire characters, it definately added a lot to have the other information, and ability to play them as they were meant to be played.
Once I realized how much information I had been missing, I bought the Oblivion book and got fairly interested in that (although I don't think it crosses over as well in LARP). Since then I have been purchasing all the books I can, when I can afford them. Some I like, some I don't, but every one has given me a better insight on the world as a whole. You never know, they may even change your outlook...
Just my opinion
--
__________________________________________
visit the official Embraced Network Site
at http://www.embraced.net
__________________________________________
Jonathan Rowe
writes
>>on a related note, i should ask here: do Kindred of the East or The Guide
>>to the Sabbat have complete rules, so that i can play them without a copy
>>of V:tM?
>
>KotE is pretty much self-contained.
Alas, no. It's very much a supplement for Vampire - though there's so
much new information that if you're using another Storyteller system
(like Mage or Werewolf) you could probably 'fill in the blanks' pretty
easily.
It irked me that a piece of regurgitated crud like Werewolf: Wild West
gets a colon in the title, but something genuinely distinctive and
original, like Kindred of the East, comes out as an add-on supplement.
>
>>to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
>>has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
>>or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
>
>it's a supplement for the game, it doesn't have really any level 1-5
>Disciplines, and only the higher-level Sabbat-only ones.
I reckon if Woodelf just wants supplements to flesh out details about
vampiric outlooks, politics, divisions, goals, mythologies and powers,
then GttS would serve him perfectly. He's probably got his own rules
for detailing vampires in his campaigns, yes?
--
Jon Rowe
Robert Scott Martin
woodelf <nbar...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
>people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
>American consciousness.]
Woodelf, no disrespect, but huh?
I agree that the vanished cliff-dwelling Anasazi were an interesting
civilisation, but it's news to me that they were spider people. And I
lived there for about fifteen years -- have they discovered anything
bizarre in the last ten?
man...@geocities.com
kab...@bu.edu (Kintaro Oe) wrote:
> >on a related note, i should ask here: do Kindred of the East or The Guide
> >to the Sabbat have complete rules, so that i can play them without a copy
> >of V:tM?
>
> KotE is pretty much self-contained.
It doesn't have the core ST system in their. If you have another ST book
though you will have 95% of it. A few things like frenzy refer you to
Vampire.
> >to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
> >has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
> >or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
>
> it's a supplement for the game, it doesn't have really any level 1-5
> Disciplines, and only the higher-level Sabbat-only ones.
>
> making it totally self-contained would be kinda silly and
> space-wasting.
Especially as the new book isn't nearly so Camarilla-centric as the old one,
have the Lasombra and Tzimice (and Independant) Clans in it, with their 1-5
disciplines.
Mant
World of Darkness Storyteller Resources
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/7960/
satan
bring them to this group as well as to the Writer of the Upcoming Tribebook
for the Ananasi.
1.If an Ananasi player decides to have bits of himself (ie. crawlerlings)
leave his body and spy/watch while he/she is gone, can it be done, and are
there any rules for this that I haven't seen yet?
2. How about the fact that in the original Werewolf Players Guide it
mentions that if a high percentage damage is done to the Ananasi and he/she
has to heal it, when done healing they will look different. Does this mean
that the Ananasi can voluntarily look different when done (like a minor
shapechange for appearance) and to what extent is the appearance change?
3. How many spiders typically make up an Ananasi character?
4. Is there a limit to the number of spiders that the Ananasi can use as
"eyes" in crawlerling form and how far can they be from each other while
still remaining part of the consciousness?
5. If a spider that is part of the crawlerling form does not reform back
into the Ananasi does it finally just go out and become a normal part of
spider society again after awhile? If so, how long does it take?
6. Does the Ananasi "eat" other spiders to reform, or does he/she actually
"merge" with other spiders in some fashion. If he/she eats them, does this
count as a sustenance as well, instead of blood?
7. Does the poison that the individual crawlerling uses have any higher
impact as it's from an awakened creature or is it the same as the original
spider?
8. When in crawlerling form, do each of the spiders belong to different
categories of spiders, or are they all the same types or can that be chosen
by the Ananasi him/herself? For example, the Ananasi goes into Crawlerling
form and now there are thousands of little spiders, are these a hodgepodge
of black widows, garden spiders, daddy longlegs, etc. or are they all one
type of generic "ananasi" spider, or can the player decide that he/she wants
them to be certain types (like all one type or a mixture)?
9. Can the Ananasi eat more spiders while in Homid form to generate a
larger Homid form?
10. When in crawlerling form do each of the individual spiders carry their
own thought patterns and make their own decisions, or are they just
basically robot spiders that a main "ananasi spirit" controls, so to speak.
These are all for now, but as we have an Ananasi character in the group, and
as he is usually pretty creative in using his abilities to survive, I will
have more questions pretty soon I'm sure.
Thanks.
Ethan Skemp
Bear in mind that a number of "shapeshifting witches/gods" myths are
claimed by Vampire, Changeling and Mage historical figures, too.
> so, WWGS has drawn on both of these sources to come up with the changing
> breeds. from mythological shapeshifters, we get wolves (NA, European,
> possibly others), bears (European, NA), crocs (Egyptian),
A lot of the Mokole actually comes from more central African
"Mokole-mbembe" myths, as well as stories of gator-men from transplanted
African slaves, and a few myths around Australia-way.
>? sharks (S Pacific, Amazon basin?),
More South Pacific than anything else.
> hengeyokai (Japanese, possibly other Oriental),
*Definitely* other Eastern myths. The Tengu are pretty specific, but
shapechanging foxes are as Chinese and Korean as they are Japanese. And
then there's the Zhong Lung....
> cats (Japanese, Chinese, European) and wildcats (Chinese, European,
> Indian, C American, NA, Carribean, others), foxes (Oriental). from
> Tricksters we have spiders (various African), ravens (Pacific NW), and
> coyotes (NA). that leaves rats, hyenas, and snakes as the only ones of
> the changing breeds for which i'm aware of no significant mythological
> antecedent. in the cases of both hyenas and snakes, i have vague memories
> of appropriate myths, but can't think of any off the top of my head.
See any good book on Indian myth for stories of the Naga, intelligent
snakes that could take human form. Many Indian noble families claimed
actual descent from the Naga -- verifying their pedigree with a little
Kin blood, if you will.
> in
> all three cases, its not all that unlikely that there are appropriate
> myths about them that i've simple forgotten or never run across. but if
> my knowledge is representative and my memory accurate, they are all WWGS
> inventions. which isn't bad--i personally think that all 3 are
> interesting additions, and have plausible bases. wererats, in particular,
> just feel like they *should* be in somebody's myths, even if they aren't.
There's a lot of European folklore about intelligent rats, even if they
never change their shape. One particular medieval bishop was said to be
devoured by rats as a punishment for hoarding grain; there's also Hamlin
and other references.
The big question is that of necessity. If you can think of a rationale
for a Breed to exist, maybe it did -- but myth alone isn't rationale to
actually have a changing race exist, particularly if the animal in
question has a limited spread of myths associated with it.
That said, you'll see three of the "lost Breeds" mentioned in Mokole.
The Moks don't remember all of the lost races -- Mnesis isn't always
100%, and they just didn't have the distribution to meet *everyone* --
but they remember three of the fallen.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Brandon Quina
> >to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
> >has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
> >or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
>
> it's a supplement for the game, it doesn't have really any level 1-5
> Disciplines, and only the higher-level Sabbat-only ones.
>
> making it totally self-contained would be kinda silly and
> space-wasting.
Yeppers. While you might have said that you're not interested in
vampires (or Vampire), the Guide to the Sabbat is a supplement for
Vampire. A fairly basic supplement, given the "World of Vampire" as
things currently stand in the WoD, given the Sabbat's importance.
However, that's not what you asked.
There's no way to play a Sabbat game with just the Guide to the Sabbat,
similar to how you couldn't do this without the PG/S-GttS prior to 3rd
edition.
Brandon,
Wild Druid
>never change their shape. One particular medieval bishop was said to be
>devoured by rats as a punishment for hoarding grain; there's also Hamlin
>and other references.
I read a similar story in this the rats were spirits of the dead type thing
because of the peasants he killed. Closested I can think of.
The Druid
Red Raptor
> The big question is that of necessity. If you can think of a rationale
> for a Breed to exist, maybe it did -- but myth alone isn't rationale to
> actually have a changing race exist, particularly if the animal in
> question has a limited spread of myths associated with it.
>
> That said, you'll see three of the "lost Breeds" mentioned in Mokole.
> The Moks don't remember all of the lost races -- Mnesis isn't always
> 100%, and they just didn't have the distribution to meet *everyone* --
> but they remember three of the fallen.
>
Can we maybe broach the subject of which three, or barring that we can't
what kind of animal, how about what they where called?
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> Woodelf, no disrespect, but huh?
> I agree that the vanished cliff-dwelling Anasazi were an interesting
> civilisation, but it's news to me that they were spider people. And I
> lived there for about fifteen years -- have they discovered anything
> bizarre in the last ten?
Not to my knowledge.
For a time, the Camarilla (the fan club) rules for Laws of the Wyld
included tabletop to MET adaptations for the "Anasazi." (sigh)
--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Lydia M. (Brujah) |Verdandi Anagnosis (Legion of Fate)
Madelynne (Malkavian)|Anjelika Cass (undisclosed)
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya
woodelf
> Especially as the new book isn't nearly so Camarilla-centric as the old one,
> have the Lasombra and Tzimice (and Independant) Clans in it, with their 1-5
> disciplines.
so for someone who doesn't have V:tM, the old Sabbat books (which i have)
are probably a better bet? which disappoints me a bit, since i've heard
that the new Path stuff does a better job of balancing alienness with
playability.
woodelf
<jon...@troll-ink.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <36f5fe4a...@news.bu.edu>, Kintaro Oe <kab...@bu.edu>
> writes
> It irked me that a piece of regurgitated crud like Werewolf: Wild West
> gets a colon in the title, but something genuinely distinctive and
> original, like Kindred of the East, comes out as an add-on supplement.
for slightly different reasons, i agree. from my POV, a good chunk of why
they made it a Vampire supplement and gave it the title "Kindred of the
East was marketing--label it in such a way as to maximize sales. IMHO,
the kuei-jin (sp?) are a hell of a lot more like wraiths than vampires,
and the only (non-marketing) reason for labeling them as such is the
misconception of one of the groups in the world--the Kindred. it's really
got nothing to do with Vampire, except for the title (that's my take from
reviews and skimming it in the store--i may be wrong). as a stand-alone
or a supplement for Wraith, i probably woulda snapped it up in a minute.
as is, i may or may not get it, but it's a lot lower on my list.
> >>to rules references i don't get. in particular, i'm wondering if the GttS
> >>has all of the Disciplines available to Sabbat Clans detailed within it,
> >>or only those that are not available to Camarilla Clans.
> >
> >it's a supplement for the game, it doesn't have really any level 1-5
> >Disciplines, and only the higher-level Sabbat-only ones.
>
> I reckon if Woodelf just wants supplements to flesh out details about
> vampiric outlooks, politics, divisions, goals, mythologies and powers,
> then GttS would serve him perfectly. He's probably got his own rules
> for detailing vampires in his campaigns, yes?
not yet. mostly i've just winged it with the old Sabbat books (got all
3), to date. but then i haven't run a WoD game in 4 years, so it hasn't
been a pressing need. before i do so again, i intend to figure out what
to do with vampires. i'm actually fine with the rules of V:tM--they're no
more assinine or unusable than the rest of the Storyteller stuff--it's the
setting that really turns me off. once i gutted the world of the
Camarilla and Sabbat, made Path of Humanity vampires a lot rarer (i.e.,
you'll probalby never meet one that's more than a few decades old),
ignored the vast majority of famous people that WWGS has pegged as
vampires, added a few more "first vampires" (i.e., Cain isn't the only
vampire without a sire), and toned down the whole angst thing (looking at
the real world, if you really think your life *really* sucks that much,
you'll kill yourself, so those vampires that are still around aren't
nearly that melancholy), i was pretty happy with it. i obviously don't
need any of the setting material in the core book or GttC, and i don't
need the basic ST rules (i've got all 4 other modern WoD games, and will
probably have all of the historicals except Werewolf and Vampire, once i
can afford them), so the shortcut of a list of Cool Vampiric Powers(TM)
with Storyteller-optimized mechanics is really the only part i need out of
Vampire. however, the Sabbat outlook (though only parts of the social
structure), and Paths fit my conceptions of vampires rather well, which is
why i got the Sabbat stuff the first time around. so does the new stuff
significantly expand or improve that sort of stuff? i've heard some talk
that the Paths have been thoroughly revised to better balance alienness
with playability? anything else major?
in all honesty, at this point i'll probably just cobble stuff together out
of the old Sabbat books and the Book of the Unliving (for The
Everlasting)--i like it's take on vampires even better, and find it a
better match for both my ideas and real-world mythologies. maybe throw in
touches of Buffy, but i'm not sure--i don't think i want it quite *that*
hard for a vampire to retain her humanity. mostly, i find the world of
Buffy and the WoD incompatible on too many fundamental levels to be worth
moving anything but plot ideas from one to the other (though a Buffy
homebrew is definitely in my future). but the Secret World of The
Everlasting is similar enough to the WoD to make borrowing either
direction pretty easy--in a lot of ways, i think of the Secret World as
the WoD "done right".
kis...@mindspring.com
so does the new stuff
>significantly expand or improve that sort of stuff? i've heard some talk
>that the Paths have been thoroughly revised to better balance alienness
>with playability? anything else major?
I hate to break this to you, but it looks like they're going in the opposite
direction from the one you are. As of the new Sabbat Guide, the Sabbat do
consider themselves Damned, and most of *them* have Humanity.
Kish
woodelf
wrote:
> In article <nbarmore-210...@karahkan.cs.wisc.edu>,
> woodelf <nbar...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
> >i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
> >people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
> >American consciousness.]
>
> Woodelf, no disrespect, but huh?
>
> I agree that the vanished cliff-dwelling Anasazi were an interesting
> civilisation, but it's news to me that they were spider people. And I
> lived there for about fifteen years -- have they discovered anything
> bizarre in the last ten?
not "spider people". their artwork. the stylized angular
line-drawing-style stuff i've seen all over the place on the walls and
stuff when i visited some of the cliff dwellings. it reminds me a bit of
Zuni art, but more representational and less geometric. anyway, the
animal images that i most remember were spiders, turtles, and some sort of
horned herbivore. but it may be that i'm conflating their art with Zuni
art a bit. though i was pretty sure that the images i'm thinking of and
have seen in native american art marketed to white men were Anasazi. i
don't have any handy appropriate references, however, and a quick
websearch isn't turning up anything of use.
anyway, i'm not claiming that the Anasazi were particularly associated
with spiders, but rather that it's one image from their art that has
passed into widespread recognition among whites, and moreso than many
other of thier images. apparently not as wide-spread as i thought, in any
case. and, for some reason, they are particularly associated with spiders
in my mind. if it's not the artwork, i wonder why? [honest,
non-sarcastic question.]
kis...@mindspring.com
>in my mind. if it's not the artwork, i wonder why? [honest,
>non-sarcastic question.]
>
Because their name sounds so much like Ananasi?
Kish
woodelf
wild...@aol.com (Wild Druid) wrote:
> >There's a lot of European folklore about intelligent rats, even if they
> >never change their shape. One particular medieval bishop was said to be
> >devoured by rats as a punishment for hoarding grain; there's also Hamlin
> >and other references.
> I read a similar story in this the rats were spirits of the dead type thing
> because of the peasants he killed. Closested I can think of.
funny you should mention that. it's a story of Hatto, a 10th C German
prelate and Bishop of Mainz. i just read it not 3 days ago--i recently
cleaned out the library on books about animal symbolism and fables and
such and have been devouring them (for completely unrelated reasons). i
suspect you're both talking about the same story, in any case.
woodelf
<alpha...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Bear in mind that a number of "shapeshifting witches/gods" myths are
> claimed by Vampire, Changeling and Mage historical figures, too.
such as? my mind must be drawing a sudden blank (or i've not read the
relevant supplements to be aware of them).
> A lot of the Mokole actually comes from more central African
> "Mokole-mbembe" myths, as well as stories of gator-men from transplanted
> African slaves, and a few myths around Australia-way.
i knew that, but there's nothing that i'm aware of in the mokole-mbembe
myths about shapeshifting or human forms. and are you referring to
gator-men as in humanoid gators (humanoid animal-folk of all sorts show up
in African (and lots of other's) stories) or as in people that turn into
gators (which would be news to me)?
> > hengeyokai (Japanese, possibly other Oriental),
>
> *Definitely* other Eastern myths. The Tengu are pretty specific, but
> shapechanging foxes are as Chinese and Korean as they are Japanese. And
> then there's the Zhong Lung....
are there fox hengeyokai in the WoD? i though the Kitsune were a separate
critter.
> See any good book on Indian myth for stories of the Naga, intelligent
> snakes that could take human form. Many Indian noble families claimed
> actual descent from the Naga -- verifying their pedigree with a little
> Kin blood, if you will.
i knew that the Naga were Indian, and part-human in some versions, but
didn't know about the shapechanging.
> There's a lot of European folklore about intelligent rats, even if they
> never change their shape. One particular medieval bishop was said to be
> devoured by rats as a punishment for hoarding grain; there's also Hamlin
> and other references.
like i said, it surprises me that there apparently aren't any wererat
stories (though there probably are and i've just never heard them).
> The big question is that of necessity. If you can think of a rationale
> for a Breed to exist, maybe it did -- but myth alone isn't rationale to
> actually have a changing race exist, particularly if the animal in
> question has a limited spread of myths associated with it.
to each her own. IMHO, the closer the WoD is to our own world, the
better. so i try and construct things so that i can use the same
myths--which means explaining with some myths stem from actual creatures
in the WoD and some are just myths, and likewise why some of the creatures
of the WoD don't appear in myths. IOW, myth alone *is* rationale enough,
for me. i like to start with the myths, and reverse-engineer them to fit
in bases for them, rather than starting from a "WoD über-mythos" as first
principles and then only using those parts of RL that fit.
> That said, you'll see three of the "lost Breeds" mentioned in Mokole.
> The Moks don't remember all of the lost races -- Mnesis isn't always
> 100%, and they just didn't have the distribution to meet *everyone* --
> but they remember three of the fallen.
that sounds pretty cool. alas, my current funding has fallen far behind
you people's (meaning game publisher's) release schedules, so i get far
fewer of the books than i'd like. though Gurahl and hengeyokai are near
the top of my list currently, and i've been very pleased with the changing
breed books to date. so if you could not release any more good products
for, say, 18-24 months, i'd be much obliged--and if you and about half the
other RPG companies did the same, i could finally get caught up. ;-)
kis...@mindspring.com
>are there fox hengeyokai in the WoD? i though the Kitsune were a separate
>critter.
The Kitsune are certainly hengeyokai; that's why Breedbook: Kitsune is part
of Hengeyokai.
Kish
Kintaro Oe
>mentions that if a high percentage damage is done to the Ananasi and he/she
>has to heal it, when done healing they will look different. Does this mean
>that the Ananasi can voluntarily look different when done (like a minor
>shapechange for appearance) and to what extent is the appearance change?
I don't remember that...
but either way I would say that it's only a "subtle change" kind of
thing
>6. Does the Ananasi "eat" other spiders to reform, or does he/she actually
>"merge" with other spiders in some fashion. If he/she eats them, does this
>count as a sustenance as well, instead of blood?
I would say "eat", but it would provide enough food to survive, but
nothing more.
>8. When in crawlerling form, do each of the spiders belong to different
>categories of spiders, or are they all the same types or can that be chosen
>by the Ananasi him/herself? For example, the Ananasi goes into Crawlerling
>form and now there are thousands of little spiders, are these a hodgepodge
>of black widows, garden spiders, daddy longlegs, etc. or are they all one
>type of generic "ananasi" spider, or can the player decide that he/she wants
>them to be certain types (like all one type or a mixture)?
this is a really good question, and I would say yes, it makes more
sense to me.
>9. Can the Ananasi eat more spiders while in Homid form to generate a
>larger Homid form?
nah
>10. When in crawlerling form do each of the individual spiders carry their
>own thought patterns and make their own decisions, or are they just
>basically robot spiders that a main "ananasi spirit" controls, so to speak.
I'd say that they are not seperate from the Ananasi mind than a hand
in homid form.
something I'd like to know, if an Ananasi is heavily damaged, do they
lose blood points for losing volume? Where is the blood kept in the
body? can blood be spent in crawlerling form to heal? does that just
spawn new spiders?
Kintaro Oe
>> claimed by Vampire, Changeling and Mage historical figures, too.
>relevant supplements to be aware of them).
the Gangrel, Verbena, pooka, etc.
>are there fox hengeyokai in the WoD? i though the Kitsune were a separate
>critter.
hengeyokai is simply a term for Eastern shifters, no matter the breed.
>to each her own. IMHO, the closer the WoD is to our own world, the
>better. so i try and construct things so that i can use the same
>myths--which means explaining with some myths stem from actual creatures
>in the WoD and some are just myths, and likewise why some of the creatures
>of the WoD don't appear in myths. IOW, myth alone *is* rationale enough,
>for me. i like to start with the myths, and reverse-engineer them to fit
>in bases for them, rather than starting from a "WoD über-mythos" as first
>principles and then only using those parts of RL that fit.
the thing is, I think that some myths have to be just that, myths that
humanity made up. It only stands to sense that sometimes people would
just be totally off-base.
and most Changing Breeds have at least some predatory aspect to them,
Rage kinda calls for that.
woodelf
<Des...@embraced.net> wrote:
> I haven't finished reading the Sabbat Guide yet, but I don't believe it
> will be worth much without the primary V:tM book.
actually, that raises a slightly more specific question: speaking in terms
of setting material, not mechanics, is GttS worth getting if i already
have the old Player's Guide to the Sabbat, Storyteller's Handbook to the
Sabbat, and Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand?
> I normally play LARP, so this next statement comes from a completely
> different system, but a similar mindset, at least initially.
> I had no interest in either the Wraith or Werewolf systems when I
> first began playing Vampire. However when I took the game over I found
> myself needing more information on the other species in the World of
> Darkness (at the time not realizing the games were not built completely
> for crossovers). I purchased The Laws of the Wild and I enjoyed the
> reading, I even enjoyed the game. Although this has not changed my
> personal preference of a Vampire game and vampire characters, it
> definately added a lot to have the other information, and ability to
> play them as they were meant to be played.
> Once I realized how much information I had been missing, I bought
> the Oblivion book and got fairly interested in that (although I don't
> think it crosses over as well in LARP). Since then I have been
> purchasing all the books I can, when I can afford them. Some I like,
> some I don't, but every one has given me a better insight on the world
> as a whole. You never know, they may even change your outlook...
>
> Just my opinion
that's an excellent point. for the record, i've read V:tM (2nd ed) mostly
cover-to-cover, and that's precisely *how* i formed my opinion of it. and
i do want vampires in my world (though perhaps not as PCs--still
undecided), and have the original Sabbat books, because they seem a much
better match (than Camarilla) to the style of vampires that interest me
dramatically--Forever Knight, Innocent Blood, Near Dark. i have quite a
few friends and gaming buddies who are enraptured of Vampire, so i hear
all about it, and have had a chance to read (or at least skim) many of the
supplements, so feel i know enough about the game to safely ignore any
Camarilla-oriented supplements, but at least glance at anything else
(KotE, GttS, Hunters Hunted, The Inquisition, G:FA, etc.). i likewise
have been known to buy supplements for other games i know i'll never play
(i've a couple of Traveller: 2300 and Nephilim supplements, frex). and i
of course don't buy all the supplements for games i do play, either,
similarly looking through them first, in order to determine if they're
something i want. [well, except for those few companies that have
demonstrated that they cannot make a product that is poor quality or not
of interest to me. so i have every Everway, SkyRealms of Jorune,
Maelstrom Storytelling, Blue Planet, FUDGE, CORPS, Castle Falkenstein, and
Ars Magica supplement (subject to monetary constraints, of course), and
for most of these i would gladly buy a supplement sight-unseen, just on
the strength of their general work.]
Raoul Duke
: In article <7d4tp1$8n2$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>, Destil
: <Des...@embraced.net> wrote:
: > I haven't finished reading the Sabbat Guide yet, but I don't believe it
: > will be worth much without the primary V:tM book.
: actually, that raises a slightly more specific question: speaking in terms
: of setting material, not mechanics, is GttS worth getting if i already
: have the old Player's Guide to the Sabbat, Storyteller's Handbook to the
: Sabbat, and Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand?
Speaking as someone who likes the *ideas* behind the Sabbat, but disliked the
execution from the old books...
The new one is closer to what I was looking for. It still isn't perfect, but
I think it is an unambiguous improvement on the old trilogy.
The major difference in feel is that the Sabbat is much more religious now.
There is a *lot* more emphasis put on the various ritae. how they work, and
how they bring the sect together. If you're looking for secular, amoral
bloodsuckers (a la Buffy and Near Dark), you may want to pass, but I think it
gives the fractious sect a nicer feel.
Joe
---
"Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way
to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked."
--Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela | "I'd like to thank you and your
fellow pedophiles for your support." --attributed to Ross Perot |
Howling lunacy here: http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins/
man...@geocities.com
nbar...@students.wisc.edu (woodelf) wrote:
> In article <7d5f09$f7p$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, man...@geocities.com wrote:
>
> > Especially as the new book isn't nearly so Camarilla-centric as the old one,
> > have the Lasombra and Tzimice (and Independant) Clans in it, with their 1-5
> > disciplines.
>
> so for someone who doesn't have V:tM, the old Sabbat books (which i have)
> are probably a better bet? which disappoints me a bit, since i've heard
> that the new Path stuff does a better job of balancing alienness with
> playability.
The new Path stuff is much better, as is the write-ups of the antitrbu. More
importantly the whole operation of the Sabbat is better explained and better
thought out. But the Lasombra's and Tzimice's descriptions, Paths and
Disciplines are in the core book. Indeed Paths as a concept and the rules for
them are delt with in the main rules now, not the Sabbat book.
Its a tough call really, If you alread have the old Sabbat Books, then the
"missing" bits from the new ones will be somewhat covered, but not
completely. If its purely from a background perspective then I would say go
for it, the background detail is much better, you'll just need to refer to
you're old stuff for the two main Sabbat Clans.
OTOH you might want to see if you could get a look at the main VRev book.
Since some of the old Sabbat stuff is in there, maybe it would now be more to
you're liking.
James Kiley
>speaking in terms
>of setting material, not mechanics, is GttS worth getting if i already
>have the old Player's Guide to the Sabbat, Storyteller's Handbook to the
>Sabbat, and Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand?
I'd say yes. It really does make the Sabbat a much more coherent
sect. The section on the various Ritae alone makes it a valuable
addition to the other books you listed.
jk
Ethan Skemp
>
> In article <19990322172353...@ng146.aol.com>,
> wild...@aol.com (Wild Druid) wrote:
>
> > >never change their shape. One particular medieval bishop was said to be
> > >devoured by rats as a punishment for hoarding grain; there's also Hamlin
> > >and other references.
>
> > because of the peasants he killed. Closested I can think of.
>
> funny you should mention that. it's a story of Hatto, a 10th C German
> prelate and Bishop of Mainz. i just read it not 3 days ago--i recently
> cleaned out the library on books about animal symbolism and fables and
> such and have been devouring them (for completely unrelated reasons). i
That's the one. Couldn't remember the area, but Hatto was definitely the
name. It strikes me as a perfect Ratkin story, *particularly* if they
don't change shape -- after all, a plague of rats could have been the
Bone Gnawers' doing, but there's no reason to let the Garou know that
they missed a nest here or there. And the motive is dead on.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Ethan Skemp
> > That said, you'll see three of the "lost Breeds" mentioned in Mokole.
> > The Moks don't remember all of the lost races -- Mnesis isn't always
> > 100%, and they just didn't have the distribution to meet *everyone* --
> > but they remember three of the fallen.
>
> Can we maybe broach the subject of which three, or barring that we can't
> what kind of animal, how about what they where called?
We can, but I'm not answering. It needs to be at the printers before I
can say with some surety that nothing's going to change -- and by that
point, you might as well wait for the book and see.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
fogr...@pacbell.net
been asked yet. Concerning both the Ananasi & Mokole books (& while we're at
it I'll throw in Ratkin as well which I thought was going to be out the first
part of this year) -
when?! when?! when?!
Fogrunner
(who apologizes for any possible drool)
Ethan Skemp wrote:
> Red Raptor wrote:
>
> > > That said, you'll see three of the "lost Breeds" mentioned in Mokole.
> > > The Moks don't remember all of the lost races -- Mnesis isn't always
> > > 100%, and they just didn't have the distribution to meet *everyone* --
> > > but they remember three of the fallen.
> >
September Virgin
gl...@panix.com (Robert Scott Martin) wrote:
> In article <nbarmore-210...@karahkan.cs.wisc.edu>,
> woodelf <nbar...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
> >i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
> >people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
> >American consciousness.]
Ananasi is supposed to be an African motif, the tricky spider, who manages to
escape situations and tangle others within his web. Ananasi was actually
lodged in the American consciousness during the Seventies, when I was a lad,
during the period of Multiethnic Education we underwent in grammar school in
the Midwest.
I heard beautiful stories about the Turtle, the Spider, and the Coyote.
I loved dinosaurs, vampires, and snakes. I also fell in love with our
librarian who looked very lovely to me, though she was probably in her late
fourties and I was a tot.
As to the Anasazi, I wish I knew more about them. Robert, send me email on
them or on anything if you're not sick of me yet. Someone get Robert to send
me email. He's ignoring me.
> Woodelf, no disrespect, but huh?
>
> I agree that the vanished cliff-dwelling Anasazi were an interesting
> civilisation, but it's news to me that they were spider people. And I
> lived there for about fifteen years -- have they discovered anything
> bizarre in the last ten?
>
I wonder what the Navajo Anasazi would think of Ananasi. "Oho! A talking
spider in our midst!"
In the splendoured hush between glasswrought diaphane,
a luminous patter: entry doors wing the raining glaze.
Lookout: I posit faint towers to quiver on showered wald;
A squirrel could perch on their crowned crowd.
BArmor9292
>Well my question is perhaps the most important of all and I don't believe
>it's
>been asked yet. Concerning both the Ananasi & Mokole books (& while we're at
>it I'll throw in Ratkin as well which I thought was going to be out the first
>part of this year) -
>
>when?! when?! when?!
Ratkin in September, Mokole in November.
I can only guess that Ananasi will be out in the first half of 2000. (or so)
"I waste him with my crossbow!"
Eric Tolle
September Virgin wrote:
> In article <7d5bhf$82q$1...@panix.com>,
> gl...@panix.com (Robert Scott Martin) wrote:
> > In article <nbarmore-210...@karahkan.cs.wisc.edu>,
> > woodelf <nbar...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > >i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
> > >people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
> > >American consciousness.]
>
> Ananasi is supposed to be an African motif, the tricky spider, who manages to
> escape situations and tangle others within his web. Ananasi was actually
I've usually heard it as "Bro Anansi". But yes, Bro Anansi is a
trickster spirit, and his stories are ancestral to the "Brer Rabbit"
stories. In the stories I've read, he is selfish and duplicitous, willing
to trick his neighbors out of their wealth. However, he's also the
one who's able to solve problems and deal with the bully Tiger,
through trickery and deceit. Some of the Bro Anansi stories are
also "just so" stories, explaning the characteristics of spiders. The
only one I really remember is why spiders cling to the rafters.
I suppose the main reason that the Ananasi are so different from
the Bro Anansi stories is that Whitewolf allready has something
like four different groups of tricksters allready, and another would
be redundant.
--
Eric Tolle sch...@silcom.com
Information does not want to be free. Information wants to be
folded, spindled mutilated, and used to make funky children's
party hats.
Timothy Toner
September Virgin wrote in message <7d9grm$nr$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <7d5bhf$82q$1...@panix.com>,
> gl...@panix.com (Robert Scott Martin) wrote:
>> In article <nbarmore-210...@karahkan.cs.wisc.edu>,
>> woodelf <nbar...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >i figure it's supposed to invoke not only Spider but also the Anastazi
>> >people, whose spider-motifed symbolism is pretty firmly lodged in the
>> >American consciousness.]
>
>Ananasi is supposed to be an African motif, the tricky spider, who manages
to
>escape situations and tangle others within his web. Ananasi was actually
lad,
>during the period of Multiethnic Education we underwent in grammar school
in
>the Midwest.
Well, it didn't hurt that "A story, a story" won the Caldecott in 1971, thus
ensuring that it would be in every library ad infinitum. What I suppose was
left unsaid in my comments about the "phase out" of the Spider in favor of
Rabbit as dominant Trickster figure (what, WoodElf? They didn't have
spiders in Antebellum South?) was that Our Friend Spider supposedly tricked
the Sky God himself out of the stories that he kept locked away. As such,
he's a Promethean figure, and given that he's short, shrivelled and easily
crushed, I'd say that he was doled out sufficient punishment for the act.
Eetr O Brain
This brings up a debate that I have participated in eagerly with
several of my players... where do shifting creatures come from? Clearly
they must have a common origin, as the similarities between breeds even
seperated by thousands of miles is quite evident. Though they represent
new flavors or twists on old ideas, not much truly distinguishes your
average Garou from your average Gurahl outside of the obvious.
Why is it important where they come from? Because that, my friends,
will give you the clue you've been looking for in regards to how many
other Bete are or were out in the widewide world. Discovering how such
creatures find genesis is the key to determining who and what the other
shifters are.
We came up with several theories.
A) Shifters are born of the Dreams of Men
We liked this one the best. Human beings have always had a tendancy to
anthropomorphasize (sp? Of course, I spell like a C.H.U.D) ourselves.
Every ancient culture has stories of this nature, men who change into
animals or who somehow carry animal characteristics.
You can find extencive writings on why this is the case in a good
psycholagy library, but I won't go into it here. Suffice to say, a
powerful attraction draws humanity towards this behaviour on a very
primal level... in real life. It's quite easy to attribute this unusual
fascination with the Shifter phenomina in the World of Darkness.
For example -
An Archtype is created by a master storyteller, wandering through the
northorn frontier of Rome near the end of the empire. He speaks of men
with the strength of horses - tireless, majestic. More athleticly pure
than any strictly human race. It's easy to see how this archtype could
recieve much contemplation, considering the respect and admiration Roman
athletes recieve.
Belief is power. Whether you call it Quintessence, Glamour or
brain-juice (I prefer brain-juice).
The archtype metamorphises into the avatar of said shifter, far behind
the scenes. Yes, that means that if the Garou quested long enough...
hard enough... they would find at the end of the long path that led to
the Origin not Gaia, but the simple Wolfman. A vague, ambiguous creature
created from a million seperate stories with a good sprinkle of
nightmare thrown in for good measure. A thing with no name, no purpose,
no identity save to serve as the mental marker for humanity merging the
traits of wolf and mortal. I'm sure they'd be mega-pissed.
So anyway, yeah, avatar of horse people is created. Said avatar
insinuates a newly-born human child with the fragment of divinity that
creates the Shifting species... of course, a host that is fitting is
chosen. The horse-child will probably grow up to have strong legs and
arms, a powerful barrel chest, etc. They never even know what has
happened until the First Change (Which really -is- the FIRST change).
And voila!
Centaur.
B) Shifters are born of the dreams of Animals
This also works just as well, though to make it fit we added some
fictional animal history. Essentially, this theory works off of the idea
that animals see human beings as the Lords of the Earth... a situation
that they're not entirely thrilled about. Humans can't really be
stopped, just tolerated.
Sometimes, though, they go too far.
The people of Minos had abused the cattle they owned for centuries with
no retribution. They grew more and more complacent in the knowledge that
nothing could or would happen, a dangerous thing in the ancient world.
Gradually, they began to orchestrate huge events... combats where young
athletes would pit themselves against grown bulls, trying to flip
themselves over the horns while unarmed. This was the ancient world.
TGIF wasn't invented yet.
Many bulls died. The humans did not care.
How many generations? The cows do not know. They were not aware of
these things in these days, just watching numbly as friend and family
were butchered for nothing more than the entertainment of a ravenous
human crowd. They even threw the meat away, regarding it as 'sacred'...
whatever word you choose for it, the bulls still rotted in a pile
outside of the city. Picked at by rats and vermin. They were not even
used for food, as was the Natural Way... they were just discarded.
Eventually, the great spirit of Bull awoke from the slumber of ages.
Old spirits tend to rest deep and long, but some nightmares are strong
enough to wake even those tired eyes. Angered at the Lords of the Earth,
the Bull gathered the souls of his children and gave them to a single
young boy... the strength of a people, as well as the rage.
Viola!
Minotaur.
Given that, one can assume that other Shifters are either going to be
strong human archtypes (in which case, they should be easy to guess at
least) or animal races that humanity has abused regularly and
consistantly. Or, I'm completely wrong and Shifters are created by comet
impacts or something equally strange...
Kintaro Oe
flesh, although that would coincide with either of your theories, as
the spirits could have been dreams.
Red Raptor
Eetr O Brain wrote:
>
Interesting idea...
The bete(or shifters) where created by Gaia, the spirit or the world
itself. She was being abused by the humans. She thought they would be a
good idea, she was kinda wrong, so she made the bete to control the
humans. Bete have been around before people acted like civilization(with
a couple exceptions)