Lilith
Kevin Entringer
She's often times associated with Caine and the second generation but I
haven't found any records of her being a cainite herself...
Regards, Kevin
Sam Altersitz
legends state that Adam had 3 wives. Lilith was the first, but Adam had her
cast out of Eden for power reasons (she refused to be subordinate to him,
and even took dominate sexual roles). The second wife, was unnamed. She
was created before Adam's eyes, and Adam saw everything she was made of
(internal organs, and all), and he refused to be near her. the legend
states that no one knows what became of this second wife of Adam, some say
God was merciful and destroyed her, others say she resides with God in His
place, wholly untainted by any sin. Then of course came Eve, in the way we
all know.
Supposedly, Lillith copulated with Demons after being exiled from Eden, but
being as she had never eaten of the Tree of Life, nor from the Tree of the
Knowledge of Good and Evil, she was still immortal.
White Wolf, I believe, picks up with Lillith after this, even going so far
as to say she may have been the first Awakened Mage.
Sam
Stephenls
Lilith, like the bloodline Mnemosyne*, is one of the great mysteries of
the WoD. No one is sure what she is or was, in part because of the
contradictory nature of the stories surrounding her.
She whispered my name and the sound was like music
Dark and awful, chords of power as once I heard the angels sing.
--The Book of Nod, Erciyes Fragment.
She is said to have considerable power, and is reputed to have claimed
to be the first wife of Adam, cast out of Eden for defying him**. She
has also claimed to be the consort and equal of God Himself, and later,
the consort of Lucifer.
The Verbena claim her as the first of their own, and some tales speak of
her spawning the Garou, as well as every other changing breed***.
...they are the Lilin, the monsters beget of an angry mother and
the demons of the field. They are our scourge...
--whispers from the Cobweb, Revised Clanbook: MaLkAvian.
She is said to have granted Caine all his power, although accouts of how
this was done contradict each other
Lilith loved me, and I knew this.
Lilith would do what I asked,
though she did not wish it.
And so, Lilith, bright-eyed Lilith,
Awakened me.
She cut herself with a knife
Bled for me into a bowl.
I drank deep. It was sweet.
--Book of Nod, Babylonian fragment.
She showed me magics
conjured from darkness, but
she would not teach me their,
name,
Nor show me how to harness
their power myself.
So I took what I wanted, and
drank of her blood, and the
power raged through me
Wild as the beasts surround-
ing, as black as her own dark
substance.
So do the strong feed on the
weak and claim their power.
So you have tought me, first
wife of Adam, and so have I
learned well.
--The Book of Nod, Erciyes fragment.
She is occasionaly refered to as the one of either the Maiden, the
Mother, or the Crone. Still elsewhere she is called the Dark Mother, or
the Demon Queen.
No-one knows.
Ok. No more poetics. Most people think she is either a Mage, or
possible one of the avatars of Gaia, depending on which system they
like.
* Untill they were revealed to be some Malkavians who just /thought/
they were another bloodline.
** "That's /it/, Adam! I /demand/ you let me be on top this time", was
how I think it was reffered to.
***She's reffered to as having had sex, and kids, with everything on
earth with a penis, including fish.
--
Stephenls
Geek
<I'm sorry. I cannot help you. I cannot change the nature of a man>
--Fell, Torment
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Pascalle van de Watering
If you look at vampire the masquerade, there is a path of enlightment.
If you want to read more about her and about her followers (bahari)
go to this page:
http://members.xoom.com/vedika/blah/Pascalle/bahari
I would point you to my original one.. but due to a little "mistake" from
crosswinds they deleted 90% of the files.
the link here is a backup.. it's slow.. i'm sorry.
Pascalle
"Kevin Entringer" <kjen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3ea5.2356$ef3.7...@homer.alpha.net...
David Johnston
>
> Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
In Jewish tradition she was Adam's first wife made from dust as he was
rather than from his rib and cast out for a lack of submissiveness who
chose to get her revenge by mating with demons and angels and giving birth
to monsters.
In White Wolf, she's another name for Rasputin.
>
> She's often times associated with Caine and the second generation but I
> haven't found any records of her being a cainite herself...
The Lilin believe that she, not Caine, was the first vampire.
The Camarilla believe that she taught Caine how to use disciplines, but was
not a vampire.
The Verbena believe that she was the first witch.
The Gangrel believe that she was the mother of the werewolves and the first
Gangrel.
James Kiley
>Kevin Entringer wrote:
>> Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
>The Gangrel believe that she was the mother of the werewolves and the first
>Gangrel.
No, they don't. Some of them may believe that she was the mother of
Ennoia, who later became the first Gangrel. Others do not. Some Gangrel
believe that they are descended from a warrior blessed by Odin; others
may be the traitorous descendants of a dead spider god. Most of them
don't know what to think.
jk
Ben Gaines
> Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
>
> She's often times associated with Caine and the second generation but I
> haven't found any records of her being a cainite herself...
>
> Regards, Kevin
Well, in addition to what everyone else has been saying, I'll add my
theory, based on exerpts from the Book of Nod, Ereyces<sp> fragments, and
the Revelations of the Dark Mother.
Lilith was, possibly, the first mage. Exhiled from Eden, she sought to
become as god, and supposedly did. She attempted to awaken Caine forcibly,
and in doing so, made him a Vampire (the curses from god were the result of
his embracing his vampirism). After their falling out, Lillith realised
that Caine would live forever, and she may not. So, Lillith reappeared to
Caine as the Crone, knowing all the powers of his blood, and via a ritual
blood bound him to her. She then commanded him to embrace her, shredding
her Avatar but making her immortal. After a year, Caine broke the bond and
staked her for Uriel's judgement. I would suspect Lillith saw this coming,
and prosumably advance her unstanding of protean enough to develope
Purifacation of the Impaled Breast, and use it once Caine was gone. Her
role in Gehenna is still unknown, but it is said "The Demon Queen and the
Dark Father" will battle in Gehenna, as well as mentions of the Crone's
return.
ben
Christina Waldeck
>
> Kevin Entringer wrote:
> >
> > Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
> >
> > She's often times associated with Caine and the second generation but I
> > haven't found any records of her being a cainite herself...
> >
> > Regards, Kevin
>
> the WoD. No one is sure what she is or was, in part because of the
> contradictory nature of the stories surrounding her.
>
> ***She's reffered to as having had sex, and kids, with everything on
> earth with a penis, including fish.
And angels. At least the rather... male... angels in the Prophecies of
the Dark Mother supplements leave nothing to be desired. *chuckle*
Kish
Christina Waldeck wrote in message <3969FE...@tu-bs.de>...
>Stephenls wrote:
>>
>> Kevin Entringer wrote:
>> >
>> > Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
>> >
>
>> ***She's reffered to as having had sex, and kids, with everything
on
>> earth with a penis, including fish.
>
>And angels. At least the rather... male... angels in the Prophecies
of
>the Dark Mother supplements leave nothing to be desired. *chuckle*
And Eve.
--
Kish
ICQ#: 28085879
AIM: Kish K M
Kis...@mindspring.replacewithcom
Ben Gaines
Christina Waldeck wrote:
> Stephenls wrote:
> >
> > Kevin Entringer wrote:
> > >
> > > Just a quick question... who is lilith? Was she a vampire?
> > >
> > > She's often times associated with Caine and the second generation but I
> > > haven't found any records of her being a cainite herself...
> > >
> > > Regards, Kevin
> >
> > Lilith, like the bloodline Mnemosyne*, is one of the great mysteries of
> > the WoD. No one is sure what she is or was, in part because of the
> > contradictory nature of the stories surrounding her.
> >
> (snip good quotes from the various sources)
>
> > ***She's reffered to as having had sex, and kids, with everything on
> > earth with a penis, including fish.
>
> And angels. At least the rather... male... angels in the Prophecies of
> the Dark Mother supplements leave nothing to be desired. *chuckle*
Heh.. she even got into Eve's pants in snake form. But then again, Adam's
exploits prior to Eve were about as bad.
ben
Samiel Spiral
>Well, in addition to what everyone else has been saying, I'll add my
>theory, based on exerpts from the Book of Nod, Ereyces<sp> fragments, and
>the Revelations of the Dark Mother.
>Her
>role in Gehenna is still unknown, but it is said "The Demon Queen and the
>Dark Father" will battle in Gehenna, as well as mentions of the Crone's
>return.
But which part of the Book of Nod you use for that is also important. Because
this particular passage would assumedly referr to Lillith, however the part
titled _The Awakening of the Dark Father_ is one part that seems to be written
by Saulot, and the refrence to the Dark Father is not Caine, so it would be a
safe bet then that the Dark Mother isn't actually Lillith, it just depends on
how many parts one assumes Saulot to be author of.
~Janus
SASA
EIois
She also appears in the Epic of Gilgamesh I do believe . . .
What do people think of the Erycies Fragments)
Ryan Clarke
> What do people think of the Erycies Fragments?
I loved the book. I re-read it now and again for a little bit of
insight into the events of the Antediluvians. It is written in a more
regimented fashion with a chronological viewpoint. It brings several points
to light that were never thought of before. my favourite point is the
"Lamentations" part. "Lamentations" details the flood and how the elders
survived. A great trick is to try and find out who the writer is. Some
believe that Saulot wrote it, others Caine, others... a lot of fun.
Try this book out; not only does it give a great background and
prophetic look at vampires, it is also a great puzzle. "The Erciyes
Fragments" is really enjoyable as long as you enjoy enigmas. And the price
isn't too bad either.
All my best,
Ryan Clarke
Shonda Slaughter
lot better, and it was well written.
-Shonda
~_________________________________________________________________~
Macon By Night...Where things really DO go bump in the night...
Visit us at: www.cityofshadows.org
Tom Knight
>
> Heh.. she even got into Eve's pants in snake form. But then again, Adam's
> exploits prior to Eve were about as bad.
>
You mean that metaphorically, or literally?
>
> ben
--
I can only assume these are the names of a lovable pair of talking dachshunds
from a children's television show. C+
- An Infinite Number Of Monkeys
Cyberpunk: Putting the funk into dysfunctional
"the kind that does not typically drive itself so deeply into the behavior choice
warehouse of the adolescent who is aflame with prepubescent or pubescent fire as
does the popular style of steely cold violence inflicted with orgasmic
satisfaction." - capalert
Stephenls
> You mean that metaphorically, or literally?
Literaly. Apparently, one of the reasons Lilith left him was that he
was doing a passable imitation of a modern day steriotypical redneck
farmer.
Which makes no sense, since she did the exact same thing, only 1000
times worse, when she left him.
Oh, well.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"Online communication is a fragile thing. It's also phenomenological.
There is no existence beyond what we read. If you present the persona of
a humorless twit, then you are one, as far as the net is concerned."
--Bruce Baugh
"There is of course a tendency among some fans to assume that WW makes
errors in their products, and then tries to cover them up by saying
they meant to do that. I suppose that's easier to believe then that
WW could make a game element that they dislike. Which is mainly a
problem if one attaches some sort of pseudo-religous significance to
canon."
--Eric Tolle
Ben Gaines
Tom Knight wrote:
> >
> >
> > Heh.. she even got into Eve's pants in snake form. But then again, Adam's
> > exploits prior to Eve were about as bad.
> >
>
> You mean that metaphorically, or literally?
>
Ehh.. metaphorically I guess, since eve wasn't wearing pants at the time. But yes,
lilith and eve had sex accord to RotDA, as did lillith and a bunch of sea serpents
and luciferm as did adam with everything in Eden... etc etc etc... everybody but god
got some.. and even that's put into question.
-ben
Ben Gaines
Stephenls wrote:
> Tom Knight wrote:
>
> > You mean that metaphorically, or literally?
>
> Literaly. Apparently, one of the reasons Lilith left him was that he
> was doing a passable imitation of a modern day steriotypical redneck
> farmer.
>
> Which makes no sense, since she did the exact same thing, only 1000
> times worse, when she left him.
>
> Oh, well.
I think what really pissed her off was having that same pigf$%ker walk
over to her one day and say "Heya, lay on your back. This won't take but a
moment." And subsequently raping her. <shrug> Now that sets a great
precidence for the next 10,000 years of romance between men and women eh?
ben
ist...@mpinet.net
Ben Gaines wrote:
> Tom Knight wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Heh.. she even got into Eve's pants in snake form. But then again, Adam's
> > > exploits prior to Eve were about as bad.
> > >
> >
> > You mean that metaphorically, or literally?
> >
>
> Ehh.. metaphorically I guess, since eve wasn't wearing pants at the time. But yes,
> lilith and eve had sex accord to RotDA, as did lillith and a bunch of sea serpents
> and luciferm as did adam with everything in Eden... etc etc etc... everybody but god
> got some.. and even that's put into question.
>
> -ben
Someone wasn't paying attention... God /did/ get some. He got more than just /some/,
too. That was a romance for the ages...
Simon Kiasyd
Tom Knight
Umm, well, I meant the "Eve's pants" bit, actually, but I think I've
embarrassed myself sufficiently already.
Stephenls
>
> Umm, well, I meant the "Eve's pants" bit, actually, but I think I've
> embarrassed myself sufficiently already.
That was literal as well. I think that action may have been responsible
for the snake's shape, Lilith being the Life mage that she was...
-=|horsefly|=-
> Ehh.. metaphorically I guess, since eve wasn't wearing pants at the
> lillith and a bunch of sea serpents and luciferm as did adam with
> everything in Eden... etc etc etc... everybody but god got some.. and
> even that's put into question.
Lilith for Himself, if you want to believe Revelations of the Dark Mother.
-=|horsefly|=-
"Saying if someone likes Punisher they shouldn't collect comics is like
saying if someone likes cheese they shouldn't eat food."
--Marc Ellerby
AJSolis
>Lilith for Himself, if you want to believe Revelations of the Dark Mother
doesn't sleep around with is Caine, and then she wonders why he's so cranky.
:)