Can Lupus Garou speak English?
Saiko Ronin
I've been playing Werewolf recently and the ST and I have been having a
few disagreements over the rules.
Now, I think I know the rules pretty well 'cos I've ST'ed a few games
myself.
Now, to the point: He thinks that Lupus Garou cannot speak English
unless they buy a point of Linguistics, and also that a Werewolf in
Homid form cannot understand a Werewolf in Lupus form and vice versa.
So, who's right? Page numbers would be appreciated :)
Also, something that I've not been able to resolve: spirit combat.
Do Werewolves use their normal stats or Mental/Rage/Gnosis?
--
Saiko Ronin
To the song, "In the Jungle"
In R'Lyeh, the sunken city, Cthulhu sleeps to-night.
From R'Lyeh, the sunken city, Cthulhu will rise tonight.
Hup! Hup! Hup!
A weema whep A weema whep A weema whep A weema whep A weema whep A weema
whep
A weema whep A weema whep A weema whem A weema whep A weema whep A weema
whep
Start screeming child, scream my child. Cthulhu rises to-night!
Screem my child, start screeming child. Cthulhu rises to-night!
AAAAGGGGGGAAGGAGAGGAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH weema whup a-a
AGGGGAGAGGAGAGAGHHHHHHAAAAAGGGGGGGGG weema whup a-a
Asmodai
> unless they buy a point of Linguistics, and also that a Werewolf in
> Homid form cannot understand a Werewolf in Lupus form and vice versa.
Lupus Garou cannot speak any language other then Lupus and Garou... they
come natural... you need to spend at least two freebies to start play with
any human language.... you simply had no chance of learning it...
Homid Garou learn both lupus and Garou after their change... meaning they
start with one langauage free...
Lupus and Garou are instinctive languages... human languages are not...
> So, who's right? Page numbers would be appreciated :)
He is... just check the lupus descriptions and character craetion in 2nd ed
and Revised (dunno bout 1st ed if it had it specified since it is before my
time)
> Also, something that I've not been able to resolve: spirit combat.
> Do Werewolves use their normal stats or Mental/Rage/Gnosis?
Normal stats... only spirits use the spirit combat rules... logically...
you haven't read much, have you?
--
Asmodai
------------------------------------
Asm...@post.hinet.hr
------------------------------------
"...I will save you Soul even if you die in the process..."
Saiko Ronin
> He is... just check the lupus descriptions and character craetion in 2nd ed
> and Revised (dunno bout 1st ed if it had it specified since it is before my
> time)
Ok thanks.
> > Also, something that I've not been able to resolve: spirit combat.
> > Do Werewolves use their normal stats or Mental/Rage/Gnosis?
>
> Normal stats... only spirits use the spirit combat rules... logically...
> you haven't read much, have you?
I knew that, I meant to say that it was something that I have yet to
resolve with this new ST I've been playing with...
Maybe he just likes having packs of werewolves being butchered
repeatedly by pattern spiders.
--
Saiko Ronin
"Plasma weapons may lack precision, but their dandy combo of kinetic and
thermal energy is perfect for really effing up both human and mecha
targets. Plus, the sheer, messy spectacle of a major plasma discharge
really puts the fear of God into the bad guys... Or the fear of ME,
anyway." -- Dirty Pair: Fatal, But Not Serious
Saiko Ronin
Page 118 of the Revised book, under Linguistics. First it says:
Werewolves already know three languages, a human language of choice,
wolfspeak and the Garou tongue.
Unfortunatly for me, it then goes on to say that Lupus Garou who do not
take Linguistics do not speak any human languages :(
Asmodai
> take Linguistics do not speak any human languages :(
Well that is logical... see this... a Werewolf of Lupus breed is born in
Russia... he gets captured and sent to the London ZOO...
he experiences the first change...
What langauge would he speak?
None of course...
Asmodai
> resolve with this new ST I've been playing with...
Well he should also read the book more carefully... Garou go PHYSICALLY into
the Umbra... menaing all their traits remain the same...
Spirits are ephemeral beings that simply don't have "physcial" bodies...
> Maybe he just likes having packs of werewolves being butchered
> repeatedly by pattern spiders.
Now this is funny... pater nspiders are minor spirits that aren't even worth
the claws...
But if you attack them you can epect a horde of HK spiders in very little
time bearing on you... and that you DO not want to experience...
Thonadril
> Now, to the point: He thinks that Lupus Garou cannot speak English
> unless they buy a point of Linguistics, and also that a Werewolf in
> Homid form cannot understand a Werewolf in Lupus form and vice versa.
Actually they can understand each other, they just have to speak different
languages to each other. The Homid form is perfectly capable of
understanding the Lupus tongue tho he cant speak it back, just as the Lupus
can understand homid tongues tho he cant speak it.
--
---------------------------------------
A shadowy figure summons you into a dark forbidding alley...
Do you dare to follow?
Click this link...
http://www.projectjen.net/sire/page.asp?s=8597
Asmodai
> Actually they can understand each other, they just have to speak different
> languages to each other. The Homid form is perfectly capable of
> understanding the Lupus tongue tho he cant speak it back, just as the
Lupus
> can understand homid tongues tho he cant speak it.
No, they cannot undersatnd each other... unless they use a common Langauge
like Garou and Lupus... They smply don't have experince with any artificial
means of communication i.e. readinf, writing and langauge...
Stephen Williams
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been playing Werewolf recently and the ST and I have been having a
> few disagreements over the rules.
>
> Now, I think I know the rules pretty well 'cos I've ST'ed a few games
> myself.
>
> Now, to the point: He thinks that Lupus Garou cannot speak English
> unless they buy a point of Linguistics, and also that a Werewolf in
> Homid form cannot understand a Werewolf in Lupus form and vice versa.
I've never ST'ed Werewolf, and I probably won't anytime soon. That
said, I'd say that a Werewolf in Lupus form cannot *speak* English, or
any other Human language, period. Canines don't have the physical
ability to make the proper noises. Although a Lupus Werewolf could
certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
how to speak, he could not actually speak it. Now, what I don't know is
whether or not there's an actual "lupine language" that Lupus Werewolves
use in Lupus form. Is a Lupus Werewolf naturally able to understand
and/or communicate with other canines? Does he have to spend a dot of
linguistics, or is a dog still just a dog, unable to speak to anyone
without some magical gift?
If there is such a language, I would rule the same as above is true in
reverse - a Homid Werewolf could understand the language in Homid form
(assuming he spent any required dots on it), but he would have
difficulty speaking it himself. If there is not such a language, then a
Lupus Werewolf could not have an intelligent conversation with anyone,
although he could certainly pull a few Lassie moves to get his point
across.
Rachel
> said, I'd say that a Werewolf in Lupus form cannot *speak* English, or
> any other Human language, period. Canines don't have the physical
> ability to make the proper noises.
I agree, lupus are not equiped with the proper vocal abilities to speak any
homid language.
> Although a Lupus Werewolf could
> certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
> how to speak, he could not actually speak it.
I think that would read better if you phrased it "a Lupus Werewolf could
certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
how to speak, he could not actually speak it *in lupus form*" if they
shifted to homid they would then have the same vocalisation capability as
any human.
However, I think that unless a lupus has been in contact with humans for
it's entire life then a point of linguistics for a human language seems
appropriate. They had to learn a language that is not their native tongue,
hence they need to spend points on it.
> Now, what I don't know is
> whether or not there's an actual "lupine language" that Lupus Werewolves
> use in Lupus form.
IIRC, yes. Lupine is a language where body language and tone are more
important than the actual sounds made.
> Is a Lupus Werewolf naturally able to understand
> and/or communicate with other canines?
> Does he have to spend a dot of
> linguistics, or is a dog still just a dog, unable to speak to anyone
> without some magical gift?
That's what Beast Speech is for, IMO.
> If there is such a language, I would rule the same as above is true in
> reverse - a Homid Werewolf could understand the language in Homid form
> (assuming he spent any required dots on it), but he would have
> difficulty speaking it himself.
I believe that Lupine is an instinctual language that all Garou can
understand as it relies on body language more than anything else. If a Homid
were trying to decide what a lupus was saying, in lupine, then I would have
them roll Primal Urge, not Linguistics.
> If there is not such a language, then a
> Lupus Werewolf could not have an intelligent conversation with anyone,
> although he could certainly pull a few Lassie moves to get his point
> across.
You may want to see if you can find a 2nd Ed W:tA book for the comic in the
front. It has a newly changed cub, in lupus talking to another garou who is
in homid/glabro.
Lupus cub: "Hey I'm still talking!"
Homid garou: "Actually, you're growling, I can just understand you.
--
Rachel Young
-all over the place today
Stephen Williams
> > Although a Lupus Werewolf could
> > certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
> > how to speak, he could not actually speak it.
>
> I think that would read better if you phrased it "a Lupus Werewolf could
> certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
> how to speak, he could not actually speak it *in lupus form*" if they
> shifted to homid they would then have the same vocalisation capability as
> any human.
Sorry, when I said Lupus Werewolf, I meant a Werewolf in Lupus form, not
a Werewolf whose breed form was lupus. My opinion holds for all
Werewolves in Lupus (or Homid) form, regardless of what their breed form
is.
> > If there is such a language, I would rule the same as above is true in
> > reverse - a Homid Werewolf could understand the language in Homid form
> > (assuming he spent any required dots on it), but he would have
> > difficulty speaking it himself.
>
> I believe that Lupine is an instinctual language that all Garou can
> understand as it relies on body language more than anything else. If a Homid
> were trying to decide what a lupus was saying, in lupine, then I would have
> them roll Primal Urge, not Linguistics.
>
> > If there is not such a language, then a
> > Lupus Werewolf could not have an intelligent conversation with anyone,
> > although he could certainly pull a few Lassie moves to get his point
> > across.
>
> You may want to see if you can find a 2nd Ed W:tA book for the comic in the
> front. It has a newly changed cub, in lupus talking to another garou who is
> in homid/glabro.
I could, except that as you said above, there is such a language. This
last sentence was prefixed with "if there is not such a language" for a
reason :)
Asmodai
> > I think that would read better if you phrased it "a Lupus Werewolf
could
> > certainly understand English, or any other language the character knows
> > how to speak, he could not actually speak it *in lupus form*" if they
> > shifted to homid they would then have the same vocalisation capability
as
> > any human.
>
> Sorry, when I said Lupus Werewolf, I meant a Werewolf in Lupus form, not
> a Werewolf whose breed form was lupus. My opinion holds for all
> Werewolves in Lupus (or Homid) form, regardless of what their breed form
> is.
Hmmm that is not entirely correct... Garou can do partial transformations...
(left oout from revised)... spend 1 willpower and roll stamina + primal urge
(diff 8 IIRC)...
After that you can have claws in glabro, human vocal cords in Lupus and
manipulating hands in hispo... (or anthing else you find to your liking...
:))
> > > If there is such a language, I would rule the same as above is true
in
> > > reverse - a Homid Werewolf could understand the language in Homid form
> > > (assuming he spent any required dots on it), but he would have
> > > difficulty speaking it himself.
> >
> > I believe that Lupine is an instinctual language that all Garou can
> > understand as it relies on body language more than anything else. If a
Homid
> > were trying to decide what a lupus was saying, in lupine, then I would
have
> > them roll Primal Urge, not Linguistics.
> >
> > > If there is not such a language, then a
> > > Lupus Werewolf could not have an intelligent conversation with anyone,
> > > although he could certainly pull a few Lassie moves to get his point
> > > across.
> >
> > You may want to see if you can find a 2nd Ed W:tA book for the comic in
the
> > front. It has a newly changed cub, in lupus talking to another garou who
is
> > in homid/glabro.
>
> I could, except that as you said above, there is such a language. This
> last sentence was prefixed with "if there is not such a language" for a
> reason :)
The language exists... but there is no need to learn it since it stems from
the peimal connection between man and wolf, and all GArou learn it as soon
as they have the first change (heck, some can do it before the change! It is
commomn that cubs before changing find themselves understanding wolves in WW
fiction...)
