White Wolf Vampire vs. Anne Rice Vampire
Webmaster
Irishman wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
> read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
> out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
> appreciated.
> Irishman
Well, who's the Storyteller? That's who has the final word in any
campaign.
And if she's a Rice-head, have her play a Toreador.
Atalanta Pendragonne
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/2273/
Irishman
Harlequin
In article <31f4d3f6...@nntp.best.ix.netcom.com>
iris...@ix.netcom.com (Irishman) writes:
Well, one of the better ways I have found to bring in someone who has
litle-to-no WoD knowledge is this:
A)Inform them that their perceptions of what vampires "should" or
"should not" be will not apply...things change from setting to
setting...
B)Have them come up with a character concept, and make up the character
based
off of that...while Kindred-related backgrounds, such as Status,
Generation, etc.
Are still taken, they don't apply yet...same for Merits/Flaws such as
Eat Food,
Wacky Mentor, et al. Any freebies spent on disciplines are taken into
account,
but disciplines aren't chosen yet.
C)Run the mortal through a prologue. Embrace them, run them through
some
"training" with their sire, teach disciplines, apply neeto
Merits/Flaws, blah, blah,
blah.
This should give your wife a fun and interesting character, while
introducing the
differences IG, rather than OOG. For more fun, have her character be a
fan of Anne Rice
as well...that way both can have these notions disabused ;)
My $0.02...
Harlequin
***********************************************************
*I hate this business. If I didn't hate getting up in the*
* morning more, I'd chuck it all in and get a real job *
* tomorrow. ---John Constantine *
* One must know chaos within to give birth to a *
* dancing star. *
***********************************************************
Jony Balboni
Irishman (iris...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Greetings,
: I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
: bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
: perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
: constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
: read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
: out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
: appreciated.
: Irishman
Have you considered trying to coax her into reading other vampire
stories, such as Dracula, Anno Dracula, etc.? Or watching other vampire
films? It might help if she understood that there were vampire legends
long before Ms Rice wrote of them. And the only thing truely in common
between them was that they were all creatures of the night.
Jon
Anarky Xx
Irishman wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
> read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
> out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
> appreciated.
> Irishman
Noone is to say how vampires are really like. The folklare changes
from region to region. Now IMOHO I think lestat was a pansy so make
him a toreador poser and let her play someone like that, user the
same rules as WW but let here play a va,pire like that from Ann rice.
it can be done, I have used some has NPC's
Mister Wrong
In article <31f4d3f6...@nntp.best.ix.netcom.com>,
iris...@ix.netcom.com (Irishman) wrote:
>
>
>
>Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
>bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
>perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
>constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
>read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
>out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
>appreciated.
definately used as background fro Vampire: The Maquerade. If you want to run
a chroncle Anne Rice style, first I'd do away with the clans. Make everyone a
Caitiff. Also, the Vampires in the Rice books were fewer and farther in
between. They were mostly socialites too. I believe I'v seen some Anne Rice
rules at some FTP site or another, but that should help to start.
-Mister Wrong
Ernest Brown
On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Irishman wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this".
Hmmm... You might point out that Ms. Rice herself would disagree! She
made deliberate choices about the vampires in her novels to fit her
psychology (Claudia in the first novel arose out of the death of her
daughter) and overall concept of the undead, which is closely tied to the
classic Gothic vampire. If you can, get THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE UNDEAD by
Dr. J. Gordon Melton. (in paperback) For the cost of an average WW
suppliment ($15), you get an overview of vampirism around the world.
There are creatures out of real-life myths that make the Gothic vampires
look like choirboys and nuns. However, it wouldn't hurt you to read at
least the first novel, since a lot of the Gothic-Punk atmosphere of V:TM
comes out of Rice.
>I haven never read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has
>anyone worked out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings
>would be appreciated.
I believe that there is an adaptation of the characters out there on the net.
The real problem with them is that they are virtually indestructable in
WW terms. Lestat even has the equivalent of Fortitude 10 through drinking
the vitae of the Queen of the Damned. Also, she might prefer to play in
an Elysium campaign, where the power and inhuman attitudes of Rice's
vampires are more in order.
Explain to her that, while she can play Rice-style WW vampires in a game,
the dramatic focus of the game is the fact that vampires are vulnerable
to other supernatural forces and more powerful Cainites.
Ernie
Dark Jester
In article <31f4d3f6...@nntp.best.ix.netcom.com>, Irishman
<iris...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>
>
>
>Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
>bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
>perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
>read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
>out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
>appreciated.
Someone hsa written a conversion...look on Louis Ganbouls' web site or
B.J Zanzibar's vampire page. Haven't got the URL's on me.
Run a campaign and she can be a Caitiff with an unusual case of
Hollywooditis.
Or, put your foot down! <please don't tkae me seriously!>
he he he
The Dark Jester
Et T <te...@tene.demon.co.uk>
Joshua Henri Bouton
Irishman wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
> read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
> out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
> appreciated.
> Irishman
Have you watched Interview with the Vampire? The styles of the two
worlds are remarkabley similair (except for the flying crap). Maybe you
could watch this and read Lestat and use the rules for VTM modified for
Anne Rice. I think I saw a online writeup of how to incorporate Anne
Rice style vampires, but i don;t remember where check:
http://www.vampireweb.com/vampire/
It may have been somewhere around there.
--
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88 The Lasombra Page http://members.tripod.com/~morvius/index.html 88
88 88
88 "Once the snake understands that you will die rather than let 88
88 it control you, you have mastered it." 88
88 --Snake-Eyes by Tom Maddox 88
88 88
88 Faith, 88
88 Joshua 88
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Darksteel Sword
: Irishman wrote:
: >
: > Greetings,
: >
: > I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
: > bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
: > perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
: > constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
: > read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
: > out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
: > appreciated.
: > Irishman
Vampires is now the following:
Jack, and shit.
And Baby, Jack just left town.
A good role player doesn't argue with the storyteller about information
their character doesn't have. Let her read the Vampire books, and if
she doesn't like it... Geez, she needs to open herself up a bit to the
possibility that ( I'll risk the unpopular opionion here ) Ann Rice
didn't invent vampires, and that the views of vampires that contradict
Ann Rice are not subordinate.
People who think they know the "facts" about a fictional subject
annot me. Set her straight lad :)
Dark Jester
In article <4tbcpl$n...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>, Chris Doherty
<cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes
> If the original poster's wife is playing
>her VtM characters like Anne Rice vampires characters, then
>_she's_doing_it_right_.
></RANT>
Well, yes and no...
The personal angst bit is exactly the same, but the wider scene is
dramatically different. Rice's vampires have nothing to threaten them,
nothing to affect them, apart from themselves. By Memnoch the Devil
there are still only the small handful of vampires in existance. There
is no one that can harm them, there is no hidden Jyhad which they are
embroiled in if they realise it or not. Excluding God and his lot, and
Memnoch and his lot, there aren't any creatures on (Rice's) planet that
can affect them. All of the remaining vampires are very powerful,
Lestat for example if to all intents and purposes a True Immortal. Any
neonates would be a) very powerful, and b) lacking in significant
opponents.
Therefore as I see it, there are aspects that are very similar, those
chunks you talk about, and parts that are _very_ different.
<shrug>
Darksteel Sword
Darksteel Sword (hyb...@starbase.neosoft.com) wrote:
: A good role player doesn't argue with the storyteller about information
: their character doesn't have. Let her read the Vampire books, and if
: she doesn't like it... Geez, she needs to open herself up a bit to the
: possibility that ( I'll risk the unpopular opionion here ) Ann Rice
: didn't invent vampires, and that the views of vampires that contradict
: Ann Rice are not subordinate.
: People who think they know the "facts" about a fictional subject
: annot me. Set her straight lad :)
Thats annoy. Sorry bout the bad spelling/typos.
Azrael
Darksteel Sword
Chris Doherty (cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: In article <Pine.A32.3.91.960724...@black.missouri.edu>,
: atmosphere and tragic angst. If the original poster's wife is playing
: her VtM characters like Anne Rice vampires characters, then
: _she's_doing_it_right_.
: </RANT>
No, shes not.
Generally, it is not a sign of "doing it right" if the player is saying
to the storyteller "No, thats not right". There was a player like that
in the group I play in, and he most certianly was not doing _anything_
right. In order to "do it right", she needs to adapt her thought to the
world presented by the st. If she can't handle that kind of adaptation,
she should stop playing and start storytelling, because otherwise she's
not going to have any fun wlll also detract from the fun of any other
players who are present ( not to mention frustrating the storyteller ).
: >Ernie
Azrael, living embodiment of Duality
Josh Teitelbaum
On Tue, 23 Jul 1996, Irishman wrote:
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
> read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
> out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
> appreciated.
> Irishman
>
>
Uh, actually, WoD vampires took MOST of their stuff directly from
Ann Rice. Lets, see... Louis is so Toreador it hurts... Lestat would
PROBABLY be either Ventrue or Tzimische. Celerity was shown in the
superspeed. Potence in well, super strength. Lestat HEAVILY used Presence
and Dominate. Malkies are PERFECTLY represented by Madeline and Santiago.
Santiago using Obfuscate... The 'Vampire Sight' was Auspex 1. Ways to die
were taken directly from Ann Rice. The prohibition on killing vampires
became the bloodhunt. I'm sure there's more, but I've only read
Interview...
Chris Doherty
In article <4thiqu$g...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
Darksteel Sword <hyb...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>: Uh, actually, WoD vampires took MOST of their stuff directly from
>: Ann Rice. Lets, see... Louis is so Toreador it hurts... Lestat would
>False reasoning.
Unsupported accusation.
>You seem to think that Ann Rice invented Vampires, had no inspiration, and
>that people are not capable of drawing from the same sources as she did.
He does not appear to think anything of the kind. Neither do the people at
WW. What WW did was to base a storytelling game on a specific subset of
vampire literature - a subset that begins with the Anne Rice books, and
includes a large amount of similar work, although not necessarily
derivatively so.
>I'm sure her work influenced the WW people, but I doubt they sat down and
>said "Lets make interview into a game, and copy all the Vampire stuff
>from Ann Rice".
Perhaps not explicitly, but it is the first thing cited in the Novels
section of "Inspiration" (You might try reading the Afterword some time.
Very illuminating.) Aspects of Anne Rice's works riddle the game; in
some cases one might argue that a copyright infringement suit is
possible, the cribbing is so blatant (level one Auspex, the Toreador,
the basic concept of the Sabbat, etc.).
--
Chris Doherty 3N Chemical Engineering
cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca University of Waterloo
cpdo...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
University of Waterloo Science Fiction Club Webmaster
Darksteel Sword
Josh Teitelbaum (pho...@magg.net) wrote:
: > Greetings,
: >
: > I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
: > bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
: > perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
: > constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
: > read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
: > out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
: > appreciated.
: > Irishman
: Ann Rice. Lets, see... Louis is so Toreador it hurts... Lestat would
: superspeed. Potence in well, super strength. Lestat HEAVILY used Presence
: and Dominate. Malkies are PERFECTLY represented by Madeline and Santiago.
: Santiago using Obfuscate... The 'Vampire Sight' was Auspex 1. Ways to die
: were taken directly from Ann Rice. The prohibition on killing vampires
: became the bloodhunt. I'm sure there's more, but I've only read
: Interview...
False reasoning.
You seem to think that Ann Rice invented Vampires, had no inspiration, and
that people are not capable of drawing from the same sources as she did.
I'm sure her work influenced the WW people, but I doubt they sat down and
said "Lets make interview into a game, and copy all the Vampire stuff
from Ann Rice".
Be An Individual.
Azrael, the living embodiment of duality ( or so he's told )
Chris Doherty
In article <xRGjIZAU...@tene.demon.co.uk>,
Dark Jester <te...@tene.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> If the original poster's wife is playing
>>her VtM characters like Anne Rice vampires characters, then
>>_she's_doing_it_right_.
>></RANT>
>The personal angst bit is exactly the same, but the wider scene is
>dramatically different. Rice's vampires have nothing to threaten them,
>nothing to affect them, apart from themselves. By Memnoch the Devil
>neonates would be a) very powerful, and b) lacking in significant
>opponents.
Well, you have to remember that VtM1 was published before ToBT, and
certainly well before MtD. VtM2 cites ToBT in the bibliography, but I
don't see anything in VtM2 that hearkens back to it.
Arguably, the appearance of Maharet and Akasha could be called the Anne
Rice world's equivalent of Gehenna; since VtM is suposed to take place
pre-Gehenna, the situation as described in QotD is very similar to the
WoD as described in the early books: the Neonates _aren't_ that
powerful, there are Vampire bars, Vampires are generally slick, hip, and
rebellious, etc. VtM's overweaning politics is an aberration in vampire
fiction; it's an artifact of the game, not the backing literature.
VtM2, in fact, does not emphasize politicking much at all - that's an
aspect that came out in later supplements.
Another thing to consider is that in general, VtM Neonates are _much_
weaker than Neonates in vampire fiction. To crib from the Bibliography
of VtM2, most vampires in the works cited had, from Embrace on, the
equivalent of 3 dots in most Disciplines.
Chris Doherty
In article <4tem9t$2...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
Darksteel Sword <hyb...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
>Generally, it is not a sign of "doing it right" if the player is saying
>to the storyteller "No, thats not right". There was a player like that
Yes, the Storyteller has the right to set the world any way that she
wants. But the default condition for VtM is the tragic loss of Humanity
(see "The Meaning of The Myth", VtM2, p25), and if the Storyteller has
not taken the time to ensure that all the players understand the
differences between her concept of the world and the one presented in
VtM2, then that is a _Storyteller's_ problem.
VtM is _about_ something; it's not HERO or GURPS or a roll-your-own
system. There are intrinsic themes and concepts embedded in the game
and its mechanics (if VtM is primarily about politicking and
supernatural enemies, why do we have a Humanity mechanic?), and if the
ST doesn't understand that, the game suffers. (All IMHO, etc., YMMV,
whatever.)
Chris Doherty
In article <Pine.SGI.3.93.96072...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>,
David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote:
>a tad exterme,... personally I would hand her a copy of Varney the Vampire
>and of Dracula and tell her that Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the arguement
>and that she needs to be a little more adaptable.
I'd hand you a copy of VtM2 open to page 269 and tell you that you're
looking at entirely the wrong source material. VtM is based on the
modren crop of vampire fiction, much of which _is_ based on Anne Rice's
works (how many "_blank_ With The/A Vampire" or "Vampire
Diaries/Journals/Notebooks/Random Scratchings on Matchbook Covers"
novels have you seen?)
David Martin Wilson
On Sun, 28 Jul 1996, Josh Teitelbaum wrote:
>
>
> Uh, actually, WoD vampires took MOST of their stuff directly from
> Ann Rice. Lets, see... Louis is so Toreador it hurts... Lestat would
> PROBABLY be either Ventrue or Tzimische. Celerity was shown in the
> superspeed. Potence in well, super strength.
So did Dracula, leastwise on the strength...
> Lestat HEAVILY used Presence
> and Dominate.
Again, read Dracula
> Malkies are PERFECTLY represented by Madeline and Santiago.
> Santiago using Obfuscate... The 'Vampire Sight' was Auspex 1. Ways to die
> were taken directly from Ann Rice. The prohibition on killing vampires
> became the bloodhunt. I'm sure there's more, but I've only read
> Interview...
>
Once more for the cheap seats, Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the genre by,
oh, several *hundred* years. Most of the above powers have appeared in
one vampiric tradition or another over that time. If V:tM is derivative
of Ms. Rice, then Ms. Rice is most certainly derivative of Brahm Stoker,
who got his stuff from the oral traditions of Eastern Europe and the
writings of his time.
David Wilson
Dark Jester
In article <4tj419$6...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>, Chris Doherty
<cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes
>Perhaps not explicitly, but it is the first thing cited in the Novels
>section of "Inspiration" (You might try reading the Afterword some time.
>Very illuminating.) Aspects of Anne Rice's works riddle the game; in
>some cases one might argue that a copyright infringement suit is
>possible, the cribbing is so blatant (level one Auspex, the Toreador,
>the basic concept of the Sabbat, etc.).
in with Anne Rice, yeah right.
Basic concept of the Sabbat? Please, ever since vampires first appeared
in folklore there have been stories of them toying with mortals for
their own pleasure, torturing and abusing them.
Don't get me wrong, I like Anne Rice's work, but she has put a modern
twist on an old legend, as have many. What is special about Anne Rice
is that she has managed to bring the old legends so slickly into a
modern setting. My hat goes off to her, but its way too simplistic to
say that WoD Vampires are to all intents and purposes Anne Rice
vampires. Take for instance the biting the wrist matter. Anne Rice was
the first author to make that well known, the cliche of biting the neck
had become ingrained in modern folklore due to successive film makers
not being inventive or in fact researching their sources. Biting the
wrist goes back centuries but Anne Rice was the first to bring it into
the lime light so to speak, and as such gets accredited with such
things.
Get my drift?
Moiner
In article <4tj2ub$5...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,
cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Doherty) wrote:
>In article
<Pine.SGI.3.93.96072...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>,
>David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote:
>>a tad exterme,... personally I would hand her a copy of Varney the Vampire
>>and of Dracula and tell her that Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the arguement
>>and that she needs to be a little more adaptable.
>
>I'd hand you a copy of VtM2 open to page 269 and tell you that you're
>looking at entirely the wrong source material. VtM is based on the
>modren crop of vampire fiction, much of which _is_ based on Anne Rice's
>works (how many "_blank_ With The/A Vampire" or "Vampire
>Diaries/Journals/Notebooks/Random Scratchings on Matchbook Covers"
>novels have you seen?)
I think you're missing Chris' point here. If a prospective player begins
to cite Anne Rice as an authority about what Vampires are "*really*" like
(whatever the hell that means), then it's worth paying attention to the
history of literary vampires. If WW has ignored the larger history, that's
not to its credit.
It's actually *instructive* to see the changes in literary vamps, from
nameless revenants in old church reports, to Polidori's Byron and the
beginnings of the "noble" vamp, to Rice *and* Yarbro, *and* Charnas, *and*
Brite, *and* a whole lot of others.
Vamps walked the night before Rice, and will continue to do so long after
she is forgotten. Expanding a players mind a bit (if only to learn *why*
she prefers Rice) can only help.
--
Moiner
"nobody knows everything, SO use everything you know!"
Ernest Brown
On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Chris Doherty wrote:
> He does not appear to think anything of the kind. Neither do the people at
> WW. What WW did was to base a storytelling game on a specific subset of
> vampire literature - a subset that begins with the Anne Rice books, and
> includes a large amount of similar work, although not necessarily
> derivatively so.
Chris, this isn't the point. The original poster's complaint was that his
wife viewed -only- the Rice books as valid vampirism, which Rice herself
would be the first to admit is hooey. As for "humanity," there is no
consideration of it in ITV outside of Louis, and in the vampiric context
of Rice's world, Lestat is dead on right to call him a whiner.
>
> >I'm sure her work influenced the WW people, but I doubt they sat down and
> >said "Lets make interview into a game, and copy all the Vampire stuff
> >from Ann Rice".
>
> Perhaps not explicitly, but it is the first thing cited in the Novels
> section of "Inspiration" (You might try reading the Afterword some time.
> Very illuminating.) Aspects of Anne Rice's works riddle the game; in
> some cases one might argue that a copyright infringement suit is
> possible, the cribbing is so blatant (level one Auspex, the Toreador,
> the basic concept of the Sabbat, etc.).
Rice is not above a little "cribbing" herself, but the game is
intentionally based on more than just her world. The introductory story
in Clanbook Nosferatu is a wonderful sendup of just this "only Rice
vampires are real" attitude, with good reason.
E. Brown
David Martin Wilson
On Mon, 29 Jul 1996, Chris Doherty wrote:
> In article <Pine.SGI.3.93.96072...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>,
> David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote:
> >a tad exterme,... personally I would hand her a copy of Varney the Vampire
> >and of Dracula and tell her that Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the arguement
> >and that she needs to be a little more adaptable.
>
> I'd hand you a copy of VtM2 open to page 269 and tell you that you're
> looking at entirely the wrong source material. VtM is based on the
> modren crop of vampire fiction, much of which _is_ based on Anne Rice's
> works (how many "_blank_ With The/A Vampire" or "Vampire
> Diaries/Journals/Notebooks/Random Scratchings on Matchbook Covers"
> novels have you seen?)
Perhaps I'm a snob, or perhaps its just the English degree... When the
writing goes below a certain reading level, I try to avoid it -- and a
great deal of the more recent vampire novels have been folks jumping the
bandwagon. As for Ms. Rice's contributions to the genre, I didn't say she
was wrong, I said she is not the final arbiter of what is "right" and what
is "wrong" in a vampire game. Being a former English major, I prefer the
classical vampires rather than this "tragically-hip" drek. I consider
Francis Ford Coppola's "Dracula" to be on the level of the recent movie
version of "the Scarlet Letter" -- both movies were warped from what they
were to provide "happy" endings.
David Wilson
David Martin Wilson
No, Chris is missing *my* point TYVM...
On Tue, 30 Jul 1996, Moiner wrote:
> In article <4tj2ub$5...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>,
> cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Chris Doherty) wrote:
>
> >In article
> <Pine.SGI.3.93.96072...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>,
> >David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote:
> >>a tad exterme,... personally I would hand her a copy of Varney the Vampire
> >>and of Dracula and tell her that Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the arguement
> >>and that she needs to be a little more adaptable.
> >
> >I'd hand you a copy of VtM2 open to page 269 and tell you that you're
> >looking at entirely the wrong source material. VtM is based on the
> >modren crop of vampire fiction, much of which _is_ based on Anne Rice's
> >works (how many "_blank_ With The/A Vampire" or "Vampire
> >Diaries/Journals/Notebooks/Random Scratchings on Matchbook Covers"
> >novels have you seen?)
>
Oliver Gassner
David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote in
alt.games.whitewolf:
>Once more for the cheap seats, Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the genre by,
>oh, several *hundred* years. Most of the above powers have appeared in
>one vampiric tradition or another over that time. If V:tM is derivative
>of Ms. Rice, then Ms. Rice is most certainly derivative of Brahm Stoker,
>who got his stuff from the oral traditions of Eastern Europe and the
>writings of his time.
I am rather new to vampirism, Is theger a FAQ and could you name some
contemporary texts Stoker is ehm feeding on? :[)
Oliver
--
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Kellie Patrick-Getty
Irishman wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I really enjoy the White Wolf games, I am trying to get my new
> bride into playing Vampire. Howerver, she is a huge Anne Rice fan. Her
> perceptions of vampires have all come from those books. She is
> constantly saying "No... Vampires are really like this". I haven never
> read the books. I wish she would be more flexable. Has anyone worked
> out a system to combine the two? Any thoughts or feelings would be
> appreciated.
I really wasn't going to add my two cents, but most of the advice given
so far seems aimed at alienating your wife from gaming or simply arguing
that Anne Rice is not the ultimate authority on Vampires. None of which
helps you. I will do my best to offer some good advice. I know either you
nor your wife, but how can someone born Kellie Kate Patrick fail to offer
help to someone who goes by the name "Irishman?"
I've been involved in a number of gaming conventions over the years and
have gamed for about 18 years. I've seen many guys try to get their
girlfriends/wives involved in gaming (I was lucky, my boyfriend now
husband was already a gamer). If you (and your gaming troupe) are not
flexible in your style, she won't be interested. If she plays just to
keep you happy and doesn't develop an interest in it herself, she'll
gradually stop playing and maybe you will too. From your post, asking for
advice on combining the WoD and Anne Rice vampire's you seem to be headed
in the right direction.
Read Anne Rice's Vampire books (at least the first two). While doing see
how Rice's vampires are like those in the Wod and how they are like
whatever is going on in your campaign. That way when she says "Vampire
aren't like that," you can say either "I know" and explain why or say
,"but they are, don't you remember when Lestat did X?" That will give her
a way to relate to the game. While you are reading Rice's books, have her
read some of WW's material. You'll have to decide which is most important
for her to read.
Another option you might try is what I did with my players. Granted, they
were all experienced players, but I did not allow them to read *anything*
from White Wolf. I had them design a human, then I got out a character
sheet and helped them fill out the dots. Then I had them Vamped and
abandoned (there were lots of reasons for this, which I won't go into
here). I arranged for the characters to meet. So basically, I had 4
humans trying to understand what it meant to be a Vampire and to discover
their own skills and limitations. This might be a way to introduce your
wife to the game. Her character might assume that Vampire's really are
like Lestat and all the rest, maybe her Sire told her that they were.
(Hey, even Lestat said that different Vampires had different skills and
that they become more powerful with time, a fine way to explain
disciplines - although there are major differences in the two "systems".)
The campaign could be learning how reality differs from how she was
taught. Let your wife know this in advance - that way you don't spend
your time telling her *she* is wrong (it's not her, it's her character)
and maybe her feelings won't be hurt.
I'm willing to discuss this further if you like. Just send me mail.
Kellie Patrick-Getty
Eric McCann
Oliver Gassner wrote:
>
> David Martin Wilson <acwi...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> wrote in
> alt.games.whitewolf:
> >Once more for the cheap seats, Ms. Rice is a latecomer to the genre by,
> >oh, several *hundred* years. Most of the above powers have appeared in
> >one vampiric tradition or another over that time. If V:tM is derivative
> >of Ms. Rice, then Ms. Rice is most certainly derivative of Brahm Stoker,
> BRAM
>
> >who got his stuff from the oral traditions of Eastern Europe and the
> >writings of his time.
>
> I am rather new to vampirism, Is theger a FAQ and could you name some
> contemporary texts Stoker is ehm feeding on? :[)
>
I can rather assure you that Brahm Stoker isn't feeding on anyone... er, anyone's work.
He's been dead for *quite* some time now. Long enough that I doubt anything's feeding on
*him* either.
"What a wonderful thing Humanity is. Passionate, intellegent, inquisitive, generous, full
of hope and joy, Noble of spirit, and above all-
Delicious."
-Nigel Bennet as LaCroix, from "Forever Knight."
Darksteel Sword
Chris Doherty (cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
: In article <4thiqu$g...@uuneo.neosoft.com>,
: Darksteel Sword <hyb...@starbase.neosoft.com> wrote:
: >: Uh, actually, WoD vampires took MOST of their stuff directly from
: >: Ann Rice. Lets, see... Louis is so Toreador it hurts... Lestat would
: >False reasoning.
: Unsupported accusation.
You see what you want to see in the game, and leave out the other 200+
pages in the book. Ann Rice is a mid level talent writer who has managed
to become popular ( similar to clothing fasions and musical "one hit
wonders" ). People say her work is better than it is because they want it
to be that way, not because it is ( like Shakespear ).
Vampire is not "Ann Rice, the overhyped". The origional player in
question was in the wrong, and doesn't strike me as currently being a
very talented role player ( good ones don't break character to correct
the ST, if you argue with this point... you're wrong ). Of course, if she
is roleplaying at all ( and isn't just a Rice-Vampire hype victim ) she
probably has some potential to learn, but first she has to lose her
attachement to a set of "facts" which do not apply in the universe she is
playing in. Just because she likes Ann Rice, and just because Ann Rice
wrote something, it doesn't mean the game should be made exactly ( or
even closer than it already may be ) like the world depicted in the novels.
Azrael