Decendants of Cain 'Family Tree'
Greg Carlill
Hi,
The other day I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have a Family Tree
for up to about the 4th Generation.(Going much further might make the tree too
HUGE.) Here is what I have been able to piece together from various sources.
(VTM Source Book, Players Guide, Black Hand, Gangrel, Tremere, Assamite Books
& Red Death Trilogy.)
Has anyone seen anything simular on the Net anywhere?
There are _heaps_ of errors in it still and an a lot still missing. My
apology to any who feel slighted by my incorrectly showing their Clans decent
or the omission of their Clan. I think the Clan books are probably the best
source and they usually give the Clan/Bloodline of the founder. I realise that
there is going to be some conflict as some of the books contradict each other
and some Clans have their own version of history.
So if you want to help out and have the Clan book for info that is
wrong, send me an email or post here. I would welcome any comments or
suggested changes.
This is the output of my family tree program (my other hobby).
It is in the format:-
Generation No. Name Clan/Bloodline Disciplines
Descendants of Cain
Descendants of Cain
1 Cain
........2 Seth Ghoul
...................3 Reuben Ghoul
...................3 Rachel Ghoul
........2 Enoch
...................3 Cappadocius Cappadocian Auspex, Fortitude, Mortis
.............................4 Caias Koine Cappadocian Auspex,
Fortitude, Mortis
.............................4 Japheth Cappadocian Auspex, Fortitude,
Mortis
........................................5 Samedi Samedi Necrimancy,
Obfuscate, Thanatosis
.......................+Augustus Giovani Giovani Dominate, Necromancy,
Potence
........2 Zillah
...................3 Saulot
.............................4 Count St Germain Children of the Dreadfull
Night Deceptio
.......................+Tremere Tremere
.............................4 Etrius
.............................4 Goratrix
.............................4 Xavier de Cincao
.............................4 Meerlinda
.............................4 Salubri Salubri Auspex, Fortitude, Odeah
...................3 Ennoia Gangrel Animalism, Fortitude, Protean
...................3 Malkav Auspex, Dominate, Obfuscate
...................3 Sutekh Setites Obfuscate, Presence, Serpentis
...................3 Brujah True Brujah
.............................4 Anis True Brujah Potence, Presence,
Temporis
.......................+Troile Brujah Auspex, Dominate, Thaumaturgy
........2 Haqim Assamites Celerity, Obfuscate, Quietus
........2 Loz
...................3 Arikel Toreador Auspex, Celerity, Presence
.............................4 Melpomeme Toreador Auspex, Celerity,
Presence
........................................5 Daughters of Cacophony
Fortitude, Melpominee, Presence
........2 Ninmug
...................3 Absimiliard
.............................4 Gorgo Nictuku
.............................4 Baba Yaga Nictuku
.............................4 Nuckalavee Nictuku
.............................4 Azazel Nictuku
.............................4 Abraxes Nictuku
.............................4 Echidna Nictuku
.............................4 Nosferatu Animalism, Obfuscate, Potence
........2 Nergal
...................3 Ventrue Dominate, Fortitude, Presence
........2 Ravnos Ravnos Animalism, Chimerstry, Fortitude
........2 Jrad
........2 Decent Unknown
...................3 Old Clan Tzimisce Animalism, Auspex, Dominate
.............................4 Andeleon Tzimisce Auspex, Vicissitude,
Animalism
...................3 Lasombra Lasombra Dominate, Obtenebration, Potence
...................3 Baali
...................3 Nagaraja Nagaraja Auspex, Necromancy, Nihilistics
--
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
.-. .-. .-.
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ Email: gc...@SEQEB.gov.au
/-- Greg Carlill/-------\-------/-------\--------/
\ / \ South East Queensland
\ / \ / Electricity Board
`-' `-' `-'
--
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.
.-. .-. .-.
/ \ / \ / \
/ \ / \ Email: gc...@SEQEB.gov.au
/-- Greg Carlill/-------\-------/-------\--------/
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`-' `-' `-'
Jalaroc
malkav and arikel were twins embraced by enoch
John W. Scott
Greg Carlill wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The other day I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have a Family Tree
> for up to about the 4th Generation.(Going much further might make the tree too
> HUGE.) Here is what I have been able to piece together from various sources.
> (VTM Source Book, Players Guide, Black Hand, Gangrel, Tremere, Assamite Books
> & Red Death Trilogy.)
>
> Has anyone seen anything simular on the Net anywhere?
>
> There are _heaps_ of errors in it still and an a lot still missing. My
> apology to any who feel slighted by my incorrectly showing their Clans decent
> or the omission of their Clan. I think the Clan books are probably the best
> source and they usually give the Clan/Bloodline of the founder. I realise that
> there is going to be some conflict as some of the books contradict each other
> and some Clans have their own version of history.
>
> So if you want to help out and have the Clan book for info that is
> wrong, send me an email or post here. I would welcome any comments or
> suggested changes.
In the vampire newsgroup I just posted my ideas of the whole family tree
thing. Take a look. i would be interested in seeing where you managed to
get the names of all of those 2nd generation Kindred. Really, nine of
them. Sorry I can't buy that. And no mention of Ashur, supposedly the
sire of Gangrel, Baali and Cappadocious. Some of you clan lnks just
don't make sense, form my viewpoint. Arikel and Malkav were siblings of
blood, as were Saulot and Malkav. Also it has been suggested that
Ennonia is the childe of Ravnos.
A couple of questions. Who is Loz, Ninmug, and Nergal. Where did you
find them and thier generations? Also i think Jrad is the same as Irad
but I could be wrong.
Hope there is something useful in all of that. I will post my chart here
as well.
Mr. Kole
car...@airmail.com
On Wed, 02 Jul 1997 17:06:33 -0500, "John W. Scott"
<jws...@southwind.net> wrote:
>Lasombra: Caine then Irad then Lasombra then Gratiano (diablerized
>Lasombra)
According to the Children of the Inquisition, Gratiano did not
diablerize Lasombra. That action was given to some unnamed Anarch
leader, who's original Generation is not mentioned.
>Tremere: Caine then Enoch then Saulot then Tremere (diablerized Saulot)
Tremere made himself a Vampire with True Magick from the blood of the
Tzimisce. No real Sire for him then.
>Tzimisce: Caine then Irad then Tzimisce then Logoj (diablerized
>Tzimisce)
Didn't get him, Tzimisce diablerized the other guy. Isn't
Fleshcrafting fun?
>
>Well there it is. Tell me what everyone things.
Sorry I snipped most of it, those were just the ones I wanted to
comment on.
>Mr. Kole
Brian McGee
LenaFalk
>........2 Enoch
>...................3 Cappadocius Cappadocian Auspex, Fortitude,
Mortis
>........2 Loz
>...................3 Arikel Toreador Auspex, Celerity, Presence
Actually, one vampire in Elysium, Redondo de Vasquez, a 6th gen
Toreador, listed Enosh as Sire of Arikel.
Just him.
Lena
Stunt Borg
On 3 Jul 1997, LenaFalk wrote:
> Actually, one vampire in Elysium, Redondo de Vasquez, a 6th gen
> Toreador, listed Enosh as Sire of Arikel.
>
> Just him.
There is a logical inconsistency in the stories of Ventrue/Toreador
regarding their origins.
The given Book of Nod claims Enoch/Enosh to be the First Born (ignoring
the Assamite story), the first 2nd Gen. CB: Toreador claims that the
First Born sired no childer in the First City, and made Arikel and
Malkav in the Second City.
CB: Ventrue claims that Ventrue was the first 3rd Gen ever made,
embraced by Enoch in the First City on Caine's order.
All three can't be true. Either Enoch isn't the First Born, or the
First Born *did* embrace in the First City, or the Ventrue are
incorrect in claiming Enoch as sire, or the Toreador are incorrect in
claiming the First Born as sire.
Or all of the above :)
Paul Lowe Hlavacek
loves mixing and matching the stories to pan out different
possibilities
JBRocky
JWScott wrote:
>Here are some thoughts I had about who is who's sire in the low number
>generations. Thought I would share and see what anyone
>else thinks.
>
>Caine or Kaen or Khayyin was the first vampire. Okay, so that's obvious.
>I subscribe to the five (or seven members if you believe the Assamites)
>of the 2nd generation theory.
>Irad the Strong, Zillah the Beautiful, Enoch First Ruler, Haqim and
>Ravnos (yes, I believe the story in the Ravnos book. I'll show you why
>in a minute).
>
>Now it gets complicated. So I'll do it by clan.
>
>Assamite: Khayyin then Haqim
don't belive everything you read. Plus it states in the book of nod that
he is 3rd gen
>Baali: Caine then Enoch then Cappadocius then Shaitan
>Brujah: Caine then Irad then Brujah the Troile (diablerized Brujah)
>Cappadocian: Caine then Enoch then Cappadocius (I also believe he is
>Ashur. More later)
>Gangrel: Kaen then Ravnos then Ennoia (She was cursed by Kaen and given
>Protean)
don' t belive Ravnos is his sire more later
>Giovanni: Caine then Enoch then Cappadocius then Giovanni (diablerized
>Cappadocius)
>Lasombra: Caine then Irad then Lasombra then Gratiano (diablerized
>Lasombra)
Gratiano didn't get him. Some unknown anarch did. It also says in the
Sabbat Players Handbook that the blood of Lasombra flows through the veins
of the eldest Assimite Antitribu
>Malkavian: Caine then Enoch then Malkav
his sire (according to clanbook toreador) is the first born of Caincould
be Irad. It also states he is the brother of Arikel
>Nosferatu: Caine then Zillah then Absimiliard (then two branchs,
>Nicktuku and Nosferatu)
>Ravnos: Kaen then Ravnos
If you belive a story told by a Ravnos I got a bridge I could sell you.
>Salubri: Caine then Enoch then Saulot
>Setites: Caine then Zillah then Set
>Toreador: Caine then Zillah then Arikel
Sister of Malkav see above
>Tremere: Caine then Enoch then Saulot then Tremere (diablerized Saulot)
>Tzimisce: Caine then Irad then Tzimisce then Logoj (diablerized
>Tzimisce)
Not dead at all. Used flesh crafting to disguise the fact. Logoj is
dead.
>Ventrue: Caine then Enoch then Ventrue
>
>Okay, now to defend some of these placements.
>
>The first is the whole Cappadocius/Ashur thing. Shaitan is a 4th
>generation Baali, and the oldest of his clan. His sire was Ashur. So
>Ashur contrary to popular mythology has to be 3rd generation. It says in
>the Cappadocian clanbook that some suspect that Cappadocius was actually
>Ashur. Maybe he spawned the Baali and then changed his name out of
>shame. The only other option I see here is that Ashur was 3rd generation
>and sired both the Baali and the Cappadocians. Actually now that I think
>about it, that might not be so far fetched. Shaitan sought comfort from
>those in the nether regions while Cappadocius sought enlightment from
>above. Maybe Ashur wanted to see who was right, kind of a taste test if
>you will. "Do you prefer Death Flavor A or B?"
sonds good I agree
>
>If you notice that all of Irad the Strong's Progeny were diablerized, it
>creates an interesting idea. What if that was part of his plan. Maybe he
>was called the strong because he only accepted those who were strong.
>When the founders became to weak he encouraged thier underlings to take
>them out. Maybe he was the founder of Enochian Darwinism
>
>The children of Zillah the Beautiful all were very attractive. Thus the
>whole Toreador, Nosferatu thing. The Setites go in there because I feel
>that Set was most likely highly attractive, being a demigod and all
>that. Sensual pleasures were his thing, and that fits with Zillah's
>brood.
>
>Enoch seemed to have a thing for people with far seeing vision. Most of
>his children seemed to have Caine's ear at some point. Saulot deffinetly
>fit into the mystical field as did Cappadocius. And Malkav was
>Cappadocius brother and had a special sight of his own. Ventrue just
>fits nicely with the whole First-Ruler bit.
Makes sense but different sources disagree
>
>Well there it is. Tell me what everyone things.
>
>Mr. Kole
GrimmOne
car...@airmail.com wrote:
>
> On Wed, 02 Jul 1997 17:02:07 -0500, "John W. Scott"
> <jws...@southwind.net> wrote:
> >A couple of questions. Who is Loz, Ninmug, and Nergal. Where did you
> >find them and thier generations? Also i think Jrad is the same as Irad
> >but I could be wrong.
>
> are supposed to be Ventrue and a couple of the other Antes, but I
> don't remember which.
>
> Or they could be the three 2nd Generation.
>
> Brian McGee
Nergal is supposed to be Ventrue
Loz is supposed to be Toreador
Ninmug is supposed to be Nosferatu (Nosferatu himself? Damn, ugly.)
There is a possibility that either Ninmug or Loz (most likely Loz) is a
2nd gen instead of the aforementions ante
Kim Robert Blix
car...@airmail.com once said:
>>Tremere: Caine then Enoch then Saulot then Tremere (diablerized Saulot)
>Tremere made himself a Vampire with True Magick from the blood of the
>Tzimisce. No real Sire for him then.
But he did commit diablerie on Saulot, so its natural to put tremere on saulots
slot in the tree
>Brian McGee
--
Kim Robert Blix ( kb...@sn.no & http://home.sn.no/~kblix )
"How do you shoot the devil in the back?"
"What if you miss?" -Verbal Kint
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Justin Grace
In article <5pbtg3$u...@sinus.seqeb.gov.au>, Greg Carlill
<gc...@seqeb.gov.au> writes
>Hi,
>
> The other day I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have a Family Tree
>for up to about the 4th Generation.(Going much further might make the tree too
>HUGE.) Here is what I have been able to piece together from various sources.
>(VTM Source Book, Players Guide, Black Hand, Gangrel, Tremere, Assamite Books
>& Red Death Trilogy.)
>
> Has anyone seen anything simular on the Net anywhere?
>
> There are _heaps_ of errors in it still and an a lot still missing. My
>apology to any who feel slighted by my incorrectly showing their Clans decent
>or the omission of their Clan. I think the Clan books are probably the best
>source and they usually give the Clan/Bloodline of the founder. I realise that
>there is going to be some conflict as some of the books contradict each other
>and some Clans have their own version of history.
>
> So if you want to help out and have the Clan book for info that is
>wrong, send me an email or post here. I would welcome any comments or
>suggested changes.
<rest snipped>
I went through a phase of trying to find all I wanted about the Antes,
Caine, and all the others, and there is a very good reference on one of
the big WoD sites.
As far as I can remember, it was on BJ Zanzibar's Web of Darkness, but I
think that site's going to be closing down soon :-(
I can't quite remember the addie, but a big search engine will probably
tell you.
If you send me an Email requesting it, I'll encode and Email you the
files, but they're zipped to about 95K. Not too bad, I suppose, for a
comprehensive listing of all known vampires.
--
Justin Grace (Note Spam-proof Email address)
*---------------------------------------------------------*
| "Slowly, gently, night unfurls its splendour... |
| Grasp it, sense it - tremulous and tender... |
| Turn your face away from the garish light of day... |
| Turn your thoughts away from cold, unfeeling light..." |
*---------------------------------------------------------*
Colin J Bunnell
I thought I would take this opportunity, incidentally, to let those
interested know that I am working on a series of pages dealing with
Cainite genealogy, and they should be up (at least as a work-in-
progress--right now, they're more like a work-in-progress-in-progress)
in a week or two, maybe. Right now the document(s) is/are complete out
to the Third Generation, and a number of fourth generation vamps
are also currently included. My ambition would be to include all
vampires that I can find in WW's materials, but that's probably
unrealistic. Instead, it will be complete out to the most
significant elders. Nifty features will include a listing,
under each entry, of the individual's sire and childer (and, therefore,
the ability to link to that sire/childe's entry), a brief blurb that
goes long with each entry, and other stuff. Nothing fancy, in
terms of page-design, but hopefully useful and/or entertaining.
I'll post when it's up.
-c
--
Colin Bunnell "If I were a good man,
cbun...@lynx.neu.edu I'd understand the spaces
cbun...@slaw.neu.edu between friends." -PF
Kim Robert Blix
cbun...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Colin J Bunnell) once said:
>significant elders. Nifty features will include a listing,
>under each entry, of the individual's sire and childer (and, therefore,
>the ability to link to that sire/childe's entry).
I thought that was what family tree's was all about :)