Soaking Damage in WW:tWW
kraig_blackwelder@@@ltg.com
On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 07:16:55 -0600, Seth Horton <shorton@cougar>
wrote:
> Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
>humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
I'll assume you're new to the game, because this is a pretty obvious
call: damage from Garou claws and teeth is aggravated. Humans (and
vampires without Fortitude) CANNOT soak agg damage, therefore: NO,
humans can NOT soak damage from Garou claws and teeth.
K.
nicholas louis rogal
They can in darkages (soak aggervated, vampires that is).
I've always let mortals do it too, i play with a more lethal
system than WW standered its only fair, i see your point though.
> K.
>
>
>
Seth Horton
Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
********************************************************************************
+ violent pacification is the answer +
********************************************************************************
+ Seth Horton +
*****************************
+sho...@cougar.isg.siue.edu+
*****************************
AdamRLee
>
>I'll assume you're new to the game, because this is a pretty obvious
>call: damage from Garou claws and teeth is aggravated. Humans (and
>vampires without Fortitude) CANNOT soak agg damage, therefore: NO,
>
>
And I'll assume that you are new to the game too, or at least haven't read very
well. Garou Teeth and fangs are not part of the supernatural weakness of any
WoD creature, therefore, and creature can soak them just as if it were normal
damage, the difference in in the healing of said damage, which is considered
aggravated for purposes of being ghouled in order to heal or the use of Life
magic. By your definition Garou themselves couldn't soak attacks from Garou
teeth and claws. So no, this is not an Obvious call, it is a valid question.
GigaPipes
>Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
Humans - and mortals like mages, hedge magicians, insurance salesmen, etc. -
can't soak _anything_. Soaking is only for those with supernatural resilience:
vampires, werewolves, etc.
GP
The Athar
Dear Sir or Madam:
Hello, this is Brant Casavant, mayhaps you've seen me in alt.games.whitewolf.
Anyway, I'll make this brief.
It is beginning to annoy me that the people running the White Wolf Homepage
promise us stuff but do not deliver. I remember this summer, when they
promised they'd be posting character sheets in .pdf format. They did a good
job, getting all the vampire Clans, most of the werewolf tribes (As well as
the Project: Twilight sheet), the basic sheets for Wraith, Changeling, Mage,
Vampire: the Dark Ages and later Werewolf: The Wild West. Then, after posting
the Akashic Brotherhood sheet and the Sons of Ether, they stopped. No warning.
No explanation. They just kept that happy little sign on top of the character
sheet page that says, and I qoute:
"We are adding them as fast as we can. If your favorite is not here yet check
back soon."
Okay, where are "my favorites?" Well? I'm still waiting!
Then, in September they start "The Great Character Sheet Round-Up, Part 2".
They begin re-posting "higher quality" werewolf sheets. Well, that's all fine
and good. Then they post two (WOW, a whole two!) new sheets, the Ghouls: Fatal
Addiction sheet and the Ronin sheet. Again, they stop posting them without
warning or reason. Maybe it's because of AEON (Now TRINITY), but how much work
does it take to post a measly two sheets a day? Not a lot, because I've
created homepages before and just adding downloadable links takes me less then
five minutes.
So I am asking you, please, when the White Wolf Homepage keeper gets back
November 13, write to him. I've written twice, and gotten no response to late.
Please write and ask when you can expect the rest of the sheets. I know this
may not affect you as dramatically as, say, Cancer research--but it's annoying
the Hell out of me, and if you could find five minutes to type up a cute
little letter to White Wolf and E-Mail it to him, I'd be very grateful. Thanks
for your time!
Sincerely,
Brant Casavant
Z
adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
And I'll assume you're new to the game system (just to continue this
condesending line). Garou fangs and Teeth ARE aggravated, and as such
cannot be soak by Vampires without fortitude, because Vampires cannot
soak any aggravated Damage. Garou can soak ALL aggravated damage
EXCEPT Silver.
Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
Its not really a big deal what you decide, as long as you are
consistent, or have a reason for being inconsistent.
---------------------------
Mexico by Night:
sabbat.galstar.com Port: 5555
Cuervo: Shifter Wizard
Shape Shifter Apps open!
---------------------------
Steven Stutzman
Z <ejz...@csun.KILL-EMAIL-ADS.edu> wrote in article
<3467a6fb...@news.csun.edu>...
> adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
> Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
> offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
> What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
> world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
> chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
Can a metis character in homid form soak *and* regenerate silver damage?
Keeper
In article <3467a6fb...@news.csun.edu>, ejz...@csun.KILL-EMAIL-ADS.edu (Z) writes:
> adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
>
>
> And I'll assume you're new to the game system (just to continue this
> condesending line). Garou fangs and Teeth ARE aggravated, and as such
> cannot be soak by Vampires without fortitude, because Vampires cannot
> soak any aggravated Damage. Garou can soak ALL aggravated damage
> EXCEPT Silver.
>
deliver aggravated damage, as well as sunlight to kindred, fire to kindred and
garou.
>
> Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
> offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
>
obviously since they normally have a limited soak pool it does them little
good but that does not mean they can't attempt it. Since normally humans have
no supernatural method of healing separating regular damage from aggravated
damage makes no sense when dealing with humans. Humans have no special
weaknesses either a silver weapon is just a weapon, a claw just tears flesh
and fire burns. They take the damage dealt attempt to soak it and most of the
time die.
>
> What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
> world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
> chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
> consistent, or have a reason for being inconsistent.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------
> Mexico by Night:
> sabbat.galstar.com Port: 5555
>
> Cuervo: Shifter Wizard
>
> Shape Shifter Apps open!
> ---------------------------
Keeper, Bone Gnawer, Ahroun elder (or more commonly known as Pete)
LenaFalk
>> I'll assume you're new to the game, because this is a pretty obvious
>> call: damage from Garou claws and teeth is aggravated. Humans (and
>> vampires without Fortitude) CANNOT soak agg damage, therefore: NO,
>> humans can NOT soak damage from Garou claws and teeth.
>>
> I've always let mortals do it too, i play with a more lethal
>system than WW standered its only fair, i see your point though.
Since I've only got a translation of DA that does not (I think)
adjust to the changes, could you tell me about that *vamps
soaking agg damage without Fortitude* rule?
Lena
~~~~~~~
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover
I'm a child, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint
I do not feel ashamed
Bill Emerson
In article <19971110225...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, thea...@aol.com (The
Athar) writes:
[snip]
> It is beginning to annoy me that the people running the White
> Wolf Homepage
> promise us stuff but do not deliver. I remember this summer, when
> they promised they'd be posting character sheets in .pdf format. They
> did a good job, getting all the vampire Clans, most of the
> werewolf tribes (As well as the Project: Twilight sheet), the
> basic sheets for Wraith, Changeling, Mage, Vampire: the Dark Ages
> and later Werewolf: The Wild West. Then, after posting the
> Akashic Brotherhood sheet and the Sons of Ether, they stopped. No
> warning. No explanation. They just kept that happy little sign on top
> of the character sheet page that says, and I qoute:
> Then, in September they start "The Great Character Sheet Round-Up,
> Part 2".
> They begin re-posting "higher quality" werewolf sheets. Well, that's
> all fine and good. Then they post two (WOW, a whole two!) new sheets,
> the Ghouls: Fatal Addiction sheet and the Ronin sheet.
And they added the Black Furies, which had been missing for a while, even tho' it was
the first tribebook, and they posted the Red Talons and Stargazers (not yet in print), too . And
somewhere between the first batch and the Second Round-up, the got sheets for the other changing
breeds on the list.
> Again, they stop posting them without warning or reason. Maybe it's because of
> AEON (Now TRINITY), but how much work does it take to post a measly
> two sheets a day? Not a lot, because I've created homepages before
> and just adding downloadable links takes me less then five minutes.
Well, we don't know who actually HAS those sheets and has to distill them into .pdf
format. I mean, if those sheets are all Quark Xpress document sitting on a hard drive on Ethan
Skimp's Mac, I can understand that maybe he's a little too busy to distill them and send them to the
web manager.
Now, I'm curious, what sheets are you waiting for? Last I looked, most of the 20 odd
Vampire clans (plus Dark Ages) were there, all the Garou Tribes that but two are there and most of
the published Mage Traditions are there. Now, I'll admit that there aren't a lot of sheets posted for
Wraith or Changeling, but how many kiths/guilds have been published to date?
Don't get me wrong, these .pdf files are a huge tool for gamers, doubly so for STs, but
let's remember for a second that last year all we had were photocopies from the back of the
sourcebooks. The fact that we have ANY free .pdfs is a White Wolf first and a big step ahead of
any other game I played.
-Bill E.
I don't have a life...I just have travel arrangements.
Bill Emerson
emer...@pilot.msu.edu
http://pilot.msu.edu/user/emerson1/
The Athar
emer...@pilot.msu.edu (Bill Emerson) Wrote:
>Now, I'm curious, what sheets are you waiting for? Last I
>looked, most of the 20 odd
>Vampire clans (plus Dark Ages) were there, all the Garou Tribes that but two
>are there and most of
>the published Mage Traditions are there. Now, I'll admit that there aren't a
>lot of sheets posted for
>Wraith or Changeling, but how many kiths/guilds have been published to date?
I want the Hunters Hunted sheets for the Arcanum, Inquistion, and The Quick and
the Dead. I want the Enchanted sheet, the Sorcerer sheet, the Risen sheet, the
Giovanni sheet, the Contacts & Victims sheet from the Vampire: The Masquerade
ST screen. I'd also like a higher-quality Vampire: The Dark Ages sheet (You
can't tell me that it's of good quality, it's horrible), an expanded
background sheet for V:tDA (I REALLY need that), which is currently found in
the back of Masters of the State, as well as the Liege, Lord & Lackey sheet.
Oh, don't forget the Tradition sheets. Let's see..that about covers it. =)
- Brant
kraig_blackwelder@@@ltg.com
On Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:33:47 -0500, emer...@pilot.msu.edu (Bill
Emerson) wrote:
> Now, I'm curious, what sheets are you waiting for? Last I looked, most of the 20 odd
>Vampire clans (plus Dark Ages) were there, all the Garou Tribes that but two are there and most of
>the published Mage Traditions are there. Now, I'll admit that there aren't a lot of sheets posted for
>Wraith or Changeling, but how many kiths/guilds have been published to date?
Vampire is missing Giovanni (the one I need).
Werewolf is mostly (if not entirely) complete
And as for the mage traditinons, since when is 3 most of 9? No
Verbena, no Virtual Adepts, no Dreamspeakers, no Celestial Chorus,
etc, etc. Not to mention no Convention sheets.
And as for Wraith or Changeling: forget it. It's the basic sheet or
nothing.
The irritating part is that they keep SAYING that they'll be posting
them, or "watch for your favorite," but my favorite never shows up.
It's getting annoying. Given how quickly they were able to put up the
Vampire and Werewolf sheets, there is simply no reason for this to
take so long.
K.
Anthony BT Boyd
That old argument is back and raging wildly...
I wonder why so many people get upset about the poor normal mortals not
getting/getting to soak?
I mean, there is nothing said either way about mortals soaking in V:tM.
Only their reaction to blood loss is dealt with. It is totally
Kindred-o-centric. V:DA on the other hand states outright that
Armor allows mortals to roll a soak with the value of the Armour. That
means in plain english: no soak without armor. The combat book leaves
the Mage soaking section empty but identifies what causes aggravated
damage to them. No normal mortals are mentioned in the chart. The Mage
Storyteller's Guide says mages cannot soak aggravated damage without
*use* of the life sphere. I take this to mean they have to roll an
effect. Others think it just allows a soak. Hmmm. Aeon provides specific
data on humans and psions. Its focus is cinematic though and recommends
giving 'extras' or unimportant characters only 4 HLs. I cannot find any
specific rule in any Storyteller Core book that simply says regular folk do
not get a soak roll. The feeling I get is that there is no need to
provide normals with a soak. The lines of Mortal focused games (year of
the hunter) and Mage bring this question into the light as the
PCs are mortal. I like Mages to have a soak roll due to their charmed
lives but Hot Dog vendors and FBI? Life is hard, the World is Dark and
bullets kill.
IMHO, YMMV, DUOAYWHTDUY
Comments welcome
_____________________________________________________________________________
.............................................................................
_____________________________________________________________________________
Anthony BT Boyd ques...@chebucto.ns.ca Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Robin Hildric Evans
>And I'll assume you're new to the game system (just to continue this
>condesending line). Garou fangs and Teeth ARE aggravated, and as such
>cannot be soak by Vampires without fortitude, because Vampires cannot
>soak any aggravated Damage. Garou can soak ALL aggravated damage
>EXCEPT Silver.
>offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
>world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
>chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
Vampires in the second edition may be able to soak aggravated, it depends.
There is no actual rule saying they can't, only the stuff on fire and sunlight
being soakable on only fortitude, whilst you get sta + fortitude vs everything
else.
I had a long problem with this, but in the end, you ought to let vampires
soak non-fire or sunlight agg without fortitude, as otherwise they're bobbins.
Protean 2, wolf claws, would become a monumentally godlike power for
vampires (teeth don't cut it without grappling, by then, who cares?).
Dropping names, but I asked Ethan Skemp about this a year ago. He said
that agg doesn't exist for mortals, its purely a supernatural thing. (apologies
to Mr Skemp if I've misremembered that.) Sure, in dark ages humans can't
soak, but that just makes them super-toast as opposed to toast. I'd let them
soak, because its not going to make too much difference for them anyway. I
don't think it ever says about mortals soaking in V:TM, but lets give them the
benefit of the doubt.
Its yet another area where WW has been a bit vague, but thats no bad thing.
ST's can tweak things to their satisfaction, and why not. It is, after, just a game.
Cheers, Rob.
Stunt Borg
On 11 Nov 1997, LenaFalk wrote:
> Since I've only got a translation of DA that does not (I think)
> adjust to the changes, could you tell me about that *vamps
> soaking agg damage without Fortitude* rule?
DA soaking goes like so (sticking to the pages that *describe*
sunlight and fire soaking):
Without Fortitude aggravated cannot be soaked.
*With* Fortitude, aggravated can be soaked. Soak pool is Sta+Fort.
Sunlight and Fire count simply as aggravated. Can be soaked, as
normal aggravated, if Fortitude is possessed - Sta+Fort.
*Difficulty* of soak goes up depending on intensity - intense
light or fire is difficulty 9-10
Personally, I dislike this a bit. It makes sunlight and fire no worse
than any other kind of aggravated, and Sta+Fort means most Ventrue
warriors shouldn't even cringe at fire.
My house variant:
'Unspecial' humans don't soak *any* damage. Armor provides a
soak pool.
'Competent' humans (hunters, allies) soak normal damage.
Don't soak aggravated without Fortitude or magic.
Armor provides an aggravated soak.
'Special' humans (mages, Faithful) soak normal damage and may
attempt to use magick/Faith to prevent/soak
aggravated. Armor adds to all soak pools.
Vampires soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with
Stamina+Fortitude. 'Special' aggravated (fire, faith,
sunlight) can be soaked *only* with Fortitude dice
and applicable armor (kevlar doesn't stop Faith
damage, but a relic might - relic won't stop bullets)
Bete soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with Stamina.
'Special' aggravated (silver, toxic waste) can be
soaked *only* via Gifts, immunities, or armor
Soran
Seth Horton wrote:
> Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
> humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
I've asked WW about this (it came up more and more as we started to play Mage).
Here's the breakdown: (these are official WhiteWolf rules according to Phil
Brucato).
On the question of standard damage:
o Vampires soak with Stamina (+ Fortitude, if present).
o Werewolves soak with Stamina (+ Gift, if any).
o Mages and other humans (Changelings and Ghouls) soak with Stamina (+ Fortitude
for Ghouls, Life effects with Mages). There is a discrepancy here; the books
_sometimes_ mention that mortals/humans/sleepers (depending on the book) cannot soak
damage (that does NOT include supernatural creatures of any sort, including
mages/changelings). That's your call, though.
On the question of aggravated damage:
o Vampires may soak _only_ with Fortitude.
o Werewolves soak with Stamina (+ Gift, if any).
--- Exception: Silver may _not_ be soaked without a Gift.
o Mages and humans may _not_ soak aggravated damage, except for Mages with Life 3
or better (they can 'toughen' up)
These are rules that I've read throughout all three main books (Vamp, Were, and
Mage). This is how they apply to EVERYONE.
What causes aggravated damage?
o Claws (Vampiric and Lupine).
o Bites (Vampiric and Lupine).
o Fire to Vampires and Garou (_not_ humans).
o Sunlight to Vampires.
o Silver to Garou.
o Particulalrly nasty substances (toxic waste, radiation, etc) _may_ cause them (ST
discretion). Read Werwolf: the Apocalypse on their precise effects on Garou.
o Vulgar Life magicks which rip patterns.*
o Vulgar Prime attacks or attacks charged with Prime.
o Vulgar Entropy attacks on a living body.*/**
o Spirit magicks that summon spirits to attack a living being.*/**
Notes:
* = You need a conjunctional Matter effect to harm Vampires.
** = These affect Vampires as well as any living thing.
--
_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.primenet.com/~soran
"Ice cream makes machines work better, especially computers.
Spoon right in!"
_________________________________________________________________________
Ian Turner
Stunt Borg wrote:
> Personally, I dislike this a bit. It makes sunlight and fire no worse
> than any other kind of aggravated, and Sta+Fort means most Ventrue
> warriors shouldn't even cringe at fire.
>
> My house variant:
> 'Unspecial' humans don't soak *any* damage. Armor provides a
> soak pool.
> 'Competent' humans (hunters, allies) soak normal damage.
> Don't soak aggravated without Fortitude or magic.
> Armor provides an aggravated soak.
> 'Special' humans (mages, Faithful) soak normal damage and may
> attempt to use magick/Faith to prevent/soak
> aggravated. Armor adds to all soak pools.
>
> Vampires soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with
> Stamina+Fortitude. 'Special' aggravated (fire, faith,
> sunlight) can be soaked *only* with Fortitude dice
> and applicable armor (kevlar doesn't stop Faith
> damage, but a relic might - relic won't stop bullets)
> Bete soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with Stamina.
> 'Special' aggravated (silver, toxic waste) can be
> soaked *only* via Gifts, immunities, or armor
VERY nice. I like.
Ian T
AdamRLee
>
>And I'll assume you're new to the game system (just to continue this
>condesending line). Garou fangs and Teeth ARE aggravated, and as such
>cannot be soak by Vampires without fortitude, because Vampires cannot
>soak any aggravated Damage. Garou can soak ALL aggravated damage
>EXCEPT Silver.
> Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
>offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
> What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
>world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
>chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
Ok after reviewing the rules in the book I see that we are both right, you
inregards to vampires, myself in regards to mortals, which was the real
question anyways. In Dark ages this stuff can be soaked by Vampires (which
makes me more right). In modern there is no specific reference to it.
Mortals however, can soak, I refer you to page 257 of the 2nd ed Mage Book.
Under Resolution:Soak: A target may make a roal to see how much damage she
"soaks up"...
As I said, damage for mortals is only considered damage in regards to how
supernaturals can heal it. A supernatural Mage, who is indeed mortal, has to
heal aggravated damage with vulgar effects, while regular can be coincidental.
Same with vampire blood used to ghoul then heal. And speaking above, noting
says that Natural weaponry, although aggravated, can be soaked, nowhere does
it say that it CANNOT be soaked. (in regards to mortals)
Thank you, Condescention reversed,
Adam
Jack Rogers
ok, hold tight this is a little long.........
Seth Horton <shorton@cougar> wrote in article
> Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically,
> can humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
there's a bit of a thing about that one & damage in general.
short answer : This is my personal view . Yes. ( althought generally this
is pointless as they have stamina's of 2 and the damage being inflicted is
about 5-7
long answer:
Note : damage done by werewolf claws & teeth is aggrivated
Note : I make a distinction between aggrivated damage & Fire damage
the two fractions though are somthing like this
A : Aggrivated damage can not be soaked by anyone.
Exceptions are werewolves(*1), fortitude (*2), life magic bonuses (possibly
with prime), fomori supernatural stamina.
B : Aggrivated damage can be soaked by everyone.
Exceptions are vampires with no fortitude (*3).
*1 : although garou can soak aggrivated damage they can not soak damage
inflicted with PURE silver weapons, this is an interesting distinction that
is made in the original rule book (WW:TA 2nd ed).
I also note this about the silver weapons bit
I think that an important distinction to be made is the fact that silver
does not do aggrivated damage. Only to garou, who may not roll to soak the
damage of silver weapons, is the damage _then_ aggrivated.
(confusion come from the wording of the grand klaive and klaive fetishes,
which by nature of having a spirit bound in them, has the power been
bestowed to always inflict aggrivated damage, they also as weapons happen
to be silver ).
*2 : There is debate about what they use to soak agrivated damage
some say fortitude, some say stamina + fortitude, some say stamina +
fortitude + whatever they decided to pump into stamina (yet another debate)
me personally, I'm a stamina + fortitude (no pump) person
*3 : This is put down to a supernatural weakness towards it or the need for
them to fear somthing lest they get to big for there boots. :)
I like this rule. I use this rule.
I have not covered my views on fire damage in this post
I personally sit on the "B" side of the fence
Jack
(more commonly known as Bishop)
PS : If anyone still has the other post I done on what is a supernatural
creature could they post that to me or the news group as I want to get a
copy of it
Jason Bishop
Time to clear this up...(very little condesention ment...)
With the exception of Magick a mage is the same as a normal human, so
anything that would go for a human would go for a mage and visa-versa...
From the Mage FAQ (also Book of Mirrors: pg 47)
Can a mage regenerate damage? __Can she soak aggravated wounds?__ Is
healing injuries vulgar or coincidental magick?
No and no. Some house rules might allow a mage a soak roal against vampire
or Garou claw or teeth, if only for survival. Strictly speaking, though, a
mystick needs Life 3 magic to soak or heal aggravated damage. Mages are
_MORTAL_ and mortals bleed. _A LOT_.
<snip: the question about vulgar vs coin. is for another discussion>
Now as to what is aggravated and what isnt and to whom, this is for another
discussion.
With respect and all due honor meant to all parties involved,
Jason E. Bishop
email: bis...@wcic.org
"It is because Humanity has never known where
it was going that it has been able to find its way."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
The Athar
kraig_blackwelder@@@ltg.com Wrote:
>Vampire is missing Giovanni (the one I need).
>Werewolf is mostly (if not entirely) complete
>And as for the mage traditinons, since when is 3 most of 9? No
>Verbena, no Virtual Adepts, no Dreamspeakers, no Celestial Chorus,
>etc, etc. Not to mention no Convention sheets.
>And as for Wraith or Changeling: forget it. It's the basic sheet or
>nothing.
>The irritating part is that they keep SAYING that they'll be posting
>them, or "watch for your favorite," but my favorite never shows up.
>It's getting annoying. Given how quickly they were able to put up the
>Vampire and Werewolf sheets, there is simply no reason for this to
>take so long.
That's exactly MY opinion! Come'n people! WRITE! WRITE! WRITE!
Nyarlathotep
In article <01bcee61$d9581c80$2cf3...@sstutzma.skyenet.net>, "Steven
Stutzman" <sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
> Z <ejz...@csun.KILL-EMAIL-ADS.edu> wrote in article
> <3467a6fb...@news.csun.edu>...
> > adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
> > Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
> > offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
> > What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
> > world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
> > chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
>
> Can a metis character in homid form soak *and* regenerate silver damage?
All Garou, regardless of breed, can soak silver damage in Homid (it is
treated as normal non-aggravated damage, and Lupus also get to do this in
the Lupus form!). And Metis can regenerate in all forms.
So your answer is yes, they can.
Rod K.
--
Machine shared by Anne Gwin (agwin*AT*mail.utexas.edu) and Nyarlathotep (nyarlathotep*AT*mail.utexas.edu). Sometimes we forget to change the name on the post.
<Discussing an image of a black rectangle silhouetted against the Martian landscape> "That is the top of the calibration target, that is _not_ in fact a monolith."--NASA TV commentator, 7/5/97
"This life is slow suicide, unless you read."
--Lt. Tom Keefer, The Caine Mutiny.
Chris Doherty
In article <64abgv$n7h$1...@infoserv.aber.ac.uk>,
Robin Hildric Evans <rh...@aber.ac.uk> wrote:
[Soaking damage]
> Its yet another area where WW has been a bit vague, but thats no bad thing.
>ST's can tweak things to their satisfaction, and why not. It is, after,
>just a game.
Instead of endless bickering back-and-forth about what the book really
meant or where rule X can be found or whatever, what I'd like to see is a
wholesale admission by gamers that
1) the rules are not written clearly or completely, and
2) there's no one right interpretation that's any better than any other
(yeah, I know, fat chance).
Then we can have a list of the possible interpretations of any given
ambiguous rule, and the ripple effects of each particular interpretation.
These could be stored somewhere (say, on a web site) and then when new GMs
ask questions like "hey, what does X really mean", we could point them
there and say "pick the answer you like".
--
Chris Doherty cpdo...@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca
Evil Tool Of The Oppressive Patriarchy
Nyarlathotep
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.971110071455.15697A-100000@cougar>, Seth Horton
<shorton@cougar> wrote:
> Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
> humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
Garou can soak ALL damage except Silver (and only under certian
conditions not in Homid or breed form). Garou heal Aggs at a rate of one a
day. And at no charge.
Vampires, regardless of the rules you look at, can't soak Aggravated
Damage unless they have Fortitude. Aggs can be healed at a rate of one a
day at cost 5 blood points (or 3 and 1 Willpower, depending on the rules
you use).
Mages are equally screwed, requiring Life 3 to soak Aggravated damage.
And Mage healing is risky stuff, as it is considered Vulgar Magick to heal
aggravated wounds. See Book of Mirrors poster for more...
Wraiths, your guess is as good as mine (gotta love rule clarity) as to
the soaking, but they heal it at a rate of one for every eight hours of
Slumber or Meditation. Cost 3 Pathos. I assume Risen are covered by the
Wraith rules, as the injury section of that book says little about it.
Changelings: I don't have 2nd ed. so I do not know what they can and
cannot soak, but I assume Cold Iron is an unsoakable (like Silver), or how
they heal.
Normals, I assume, (Mummies, Fomori, Gypsies and the others) can soak
normal damage (like Mages, and don't give me its 'cause their
supernatural) but not Aggravated damage (Why? I don't know, its all
equally lethal to them). Healing, well all of the major rulebooks have
that nice table in it.
Hope this helps,
Keeper
In article <01bcee61$d9581c80$2cf3...@sstutzma.skyenet.net>, "Steven Stutzman" <sstu...@skyenet.net> writes:
>
>
> Z <ejz...@csun.KILL-EMAIL-ADS.edu> wrote in article
> <3467a6fb...@news.csun.edu>...
> > adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
> > Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
> > offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
> >
or may not work depending upon the source.
> >
> > What humans can do in Wild West is up to the ST and how lethal the
> > world should be for humans. (if there are Human PC's I'd give them a
> > chance/reason for being able to soak non-agg)
>
> Can a metis character in homid form soak *and* regenerate silver damage?
>
though as I understand them the official White Wolf rules state otherwise.
It's just another reason it's bad to be a metis. Of course we play that you
can soak silver in your breed form for the others which also is not the strict
reading of the rules since the rules read that silver damage may be soaked in
either homid or lupus forms.
Keeper Bone Gnawer Ahroun Elder
ROBIN HILDRIC EVANS
Chris Doherty Wrote -
Hope no one thought I was bickering, 'cause I wasn't, I was just
commenting. I find all the different ideas about soaking interesting, and
want to try a few out to see if they go well with my ST style. I agree with
you Chris. Apologies if anyone thought I was trying to lay down the law.
Cheers, Rob.
Seth Horton
On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, David Johnston wrote:
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 07:56:55 -0700
> From: David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.games.whitewolf
> Subject: Re: Soaking Damage in WW:tWW
>
> Z wrote:
> >
> > adam...@aol.com (AdamRLee) spake unto us:
> >
> > >>
> > >>I'll assume you're new to the game, because this is a pretty obvious
> > >>call: damage from Garou claws and teeth is aggravated. Humans (and
> > >>vampires without Fortitude) CANNOT soak agg damage, therefore: NO,
> > >>humans can NOT soak damage from Garou claws and teeth.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
I don't see why you have to act all high and mighty about it. I
merely asked this question because I only have the Wild West book, and no
where in this book does it say anything as to whether humans can or can't
soak damage. So excuse me for even asking the question, your majesty.
JLHeinig
::sigh::
OK, I'm gonna pull stuff directly from the Vampire rule book. Strict
interpretation. THEN, I will proceed to explain how I play in my games at
home, and the differences. Maybe this will clear some stuff up.
It's worth noting that rules for soaking damage are not consistent from
system to system.Typically, I use the rules that I'm presenting at the bottom
of this post for all of my Storyteller games.
First off, the straight definition of "soak", from V:TM p. 224: "A target may
make a roll to see how much damage she "soaks up" due to her natural
hardiness. The target rolls Stamina+Fortitude (difficulty 6); every success
reduces the damage by one."
Now, soaking and aggravated damage for vampires, on V:TM p. 192: "Aggravated
wounds can only be soaked by vampires who possess the Discipline of
Fortitude."
Soaking fire, V:TM p. 193: "The player may roll a number of dice equal to the
character's Fortitude rating against the difficulties listed below." (Note the
lack of any reference to Stamina. Compare also to Vampire: The Dark Ages, p.
200: ". . . they can resist the effects if (and only if) they possess
Fortitude. Have players roll Stamina + Fortitude . . ."
Soaking sunlight, V:TM p. 194: "If the character has Fortitude, he may roll a
number of dice equal to his rating each turn to soak the rays." (Again, no
Stamina. Also compare to Vampire: The Dark Ages, p. 200, which again allows
for Stamina + Fortitude only if the character has Fortitude.)
The Fortitude Discipline, V:TM p. 163: "Fortitude provides the ability to
resist sunlight and fire to those who possess it. For each level of Fortitude
a character possesses, he may roll one die to soak damage from fire and
sunlight. Fortitude is also added to a character's ability to soak other
wounds."
There is no direct reference to mortals soaking damage that I can find in
Vampire: The Masquerade, the Vampire Players Guide, or The Hunters Hunted.
However, Dark Ages, p. 193, under Armor, notes: "Normal mortals may roll this
number of [armor] dice to resist damage inflicted against them; vampires add
this rating to their normal 'soak' rolls, by rolling Stamina + Fortitude (if
any) + Armor Protection." This implies that mortals get no soak roll normally.
To sum: The implication is that mortals get no soak dice; vampires get soak
of Stamina + Fortitude against normal damage, and Fortitude against sunlight
and fire (+ Stamina in the Dark Ages); they get a normal soak roll against
aggravated wounds of other kinds, but only if they have Fortitude.
Thus, if Lee the Brujah is shot with a 9mm pistol, she can roll Stamina to
soak (she has no Fortitude). She gets no soak against fir or sunlight, and no
soak against any sort of aggravated wounds (like Garou claws). Her friend
Simon the Gangrel, with Fortitude, gets to roll Stamina + Fortitude to soak
the gun, the Garou claws, and any other aggravated wounds except fire or
sunlight, against which he gets straight Fortitude. The poor hapless mortal
Marcelles gets no soak against any of these (though the sunlight isn't doing
much damage).
Remember, this is just a strict interpretation of the Vampire soak rules, not
Mage or Werewolf (which have some different permutations -- like Garou getting
no soak against silver, if I recall correctly).
Personally, I never really liked those soak rules. So what I use goes for
everyone, and it goes like this:
-- Your base soak roll is Stamina (+ Fortitude, if any). This is used to soak
all regular damage. Even mortals get this roll (otherwise, they are chowder
when fighting a vampire with Potence).
-- You can soak aggravated wounds with Stamina; vampires (and revenants and
ghouls and risen) add Fortitude, as usual. However, this applies only to
aggravated injury that is not specific to your type: fire and sunlight against
vampires, for instance, or silver against Garou.
-- When attacked by specific items which are usually designated as "no soak" in
your core rules, you get no soak. Thus, vampires can only soak sunlight and
fire with Fortitude, and Garou cannot soak silver in my games.
If you really must have a justification for the change from Stamina +
Fortitude to just Fortitude for soaking fire and sunlight (as per the change
from Dark Ages to modern), then rule that the prevalence of artifical lighting
causes modern vampires to be less likely to risk exposure to the sun and to
fire, and therefore less inured to its dangers. Under this rationale, Dark Age
vampires get the Stamina added in because they have to occasionally risk fire
or sunlight, since there's simply no other way to get business done in the
mortal world (no electric lights, you see). The changeover would probably come
about around the time that public gas lighting starts becoming prevalent.
Cheers,
Jess Heinig
Nicholas DeSimone
The Athar wrote in message
>I want the Hunters Hunted sheets for the Arcanum, Inquistion, and The Quick
and
> the Dead. I want the Enchanted sheet, the Sorcerer sheet, the Risen sheet,
the
> Giovanni sheet, the Contacts & Victims sheet from the Vampire: The
Masquerade
> ST screen. I'd also like a higher-quality Vampire: The Dark Ages sheet
(You
> can't tell me that it's of good quality, it's horrible), an expanded
> background sheet for V:tDA (I REALLY need that), which is currently found
in
> the back of Masters of the State, as well as the Liege, Lord & Lackey
sheet.
> Oh, don't forget the Tradition sheets. Let's see..that about covers it. =)
>
>- Brant
Would you like fries with that?
I understand that you're anxious about the character sheets, but be patient.
I myself am waiting for the book that they promised every few months. It's
not easy programming these thing. Plus there are more important things to
worry about, ie info on Trinity. They released the Ghouls sheet prolly cuz
there was nothing that could really be used for Ghouls. It's just as easy
to use the basic Character sheets for the time being. I'm sure WW is on top
of things. Take care.
- Nick DeSimone
aka Caine of Del Noche
Patryk Adamski
> I believe that's in the Book of Shadows... Anyway, Vampires can't soak agg
> without Fortitude, so mortals definately can't.
> -Justin
There is no such thing as aggravated damage for mortals.
Losing hands and other limbs is deadly regardless of
damage source.
Basically, mortals can soak any damage, but any 3 health
levels taken after the soak spell mortal wound (it takes
only three health levels to stake a vampire - guess, what
happens to a staked mortal?).
The exact rules can be found in main books - though I dare
say that they are not put clearly.
--
*-
| Patryk Adamski, email send to Hol...@ucinvl.uci.agh.edu.pl |
-*
"Yet even your darkest shade a canvas forms (found on
Whereon my eye must multiply in swarms Shade Retainer
Familiar looks of shapes no longer there." card)
Baudelaire, "Obsession"
James
David, if you are going to take that atitude towards soaking damage you must also
believe that new bloodlines should not be used because they weren't mentioned in
'the main book'... is that true? I am just curious. If it isn't in 'the main
book' I assume you must have a very boring campaign....
Think of all the great stuff that was not in 'the main book': New bloodlines,
merits & flaws, secondary skills, new discipline powers, etc... Do you use NONE
of these things?
David Johnston wrote:
> Jason Bishop wrote:
> >
> > Time to clear this up...(very little condesention ment...)
> >
> > With the exception of Magick a mage is the same as a normal human, so
> > anything that would go for a human would go for a mage and visa-versa...
> >
> > From the Mage FAQ (also Book of Mirrors: pg 47)
> > Can a mage regenerate damage? __Can she soak aggravated wounds?__ Is
> > healing injuries vulgar or coincidental magick?
> >
> > No and no. Some house rules might allow a mage a soak roal against vampire
> > or Garou claw or teeth, if only for survival. Strictly speaking, though, a
> > mystick needs Life 3 magic to soak or heal aggravated damage. Mages are
> > _MORTAL_ and mortals bleed. _A LOT_.
>
> Bah, humbug. If they wanted it to work that way, they should have
> written it that way in the main rules.
Thomas Hughes
Nicholas DeSimone (Darqu...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Would you like fries with that?
: I understand that you're anxious about the character sheets, but be patient.
: I myself am waiting for the book that they promised every few months. It's
: not easy programming these thing. Plus there are more important things to
: worry about, ie info on Trinity. They released the Ghouls sheet prolly cuz
: there was nothing that could really be used for Ghouls. It's just as easy
: to use the basic Character sheets for the time being. I'm sure WW is on top
: of things. Take care.
Oh ye of great faith. Personally, from how I've seen things go in the
past on their site, it does not look like their on top of anything. I
have worked in the internet business before and when you say that you are
going to do something and it doesn't come out and there isn't even a
reason as to why, then you are definately going to loose that customer
base. Perhaps the webmaster is over worked. Perhaps the executives make
promises that the webmaster can't keep. Perhaps the webmaster just thinks
he can do so much more than what he can in such a limited time. Somewhere
there is definately a communication problem, and people are getting upset
about it enough to start a petition. I always assumed the point of
advertizing was to get people to buy your product, not to get them to sign
petitions about how you're doing a shitty job. Maybe I have made a false
assumption.
Nietz
Jcalvan545
>You have an active imagination. Humans not soaking aggravated
>damage is NOT in the Mage main book. It isn't even in the Werewolf
>main book.
I believe that's in the Book of Shadows... Anyway, Vampires can't soak agg
without Fortitude, so mortals definately can't.
-Justin
#= Miste...@Juno.Com --- jcalv...@aol.com =#
#======= ICQ: 3137190 Dalnet: Mr_Wrong =======#
Nyarlathotep
In article <Pine.GSO.3.95.971110071455.15697A-100000@cougar>, Seth Horton
<shorton@cougar> wrote:
> Who can and who can't soak damage in WW:tWW? Specifically, can
> humans soak damage from Garou claws and bites?
Hmmm... I would rule something like this...
Claws and Teeth of Supernaturals: Normal soak for a human. These things
are actually less-deadly to a human then a 12" Khyber, Katana, Remington
M700 or Colt Anaconda. Besides, most supernaturals (Garou Ahroun with 9
str in Crinos) don't need the additional "no soak" rule to kill a normal.
Fire: No soak for sleepers. You get hit with fire, you burn. We all
know this as we have all burned ourselves. Regardless of origin; be it
magickal, spiritual or napalm.
Vulgar Magick: No soak.
Radiological and Toxics: Depends on the type, Radiation is usually no
soak, but takes hours to kill a human. Same goes for toxics, but these
could probably be soaked (remember, contact toxic materials would actually
do damage EVERY round instead of once until it is washed off or the human
leaves the area).
Chemical and Biological: Again, depends on the type. Actual
Biologic/Chemical Wepaons are covered in the books (VPG and RatA).
LenaFalk
>> Since I've only got a translation of DA that does not (I think)
>> adjust to the changes, could you tell me about that *vamps
>> soaking agg damage without Fortitude* rule?
>
>DA soaking goes like so (sticking to the pages that *describe*
>sunlight and fire soaking):
>
>Without Fortitude aggravated cannot be soaked.
>*With* Fortitude, aggravated can be soaked. Soak pool is Sta+Fort.
>Sunlight and Fire count simply as aggravated. Can be soaked, as
> normal aggravated, if Fortitude is possessed - Sta+Fort.
> *Difficulty* of soak goes up depending on intensity - intense
> light or fire is difficulty 9-10
Bah, don't like this ... ;-)
>Personally, I dislike this a bit. It makes sunlight and fire no worse
>than any other kind of aggravated, and Sta+Fort means most Ventrue
>warriors shouldn't even cringe at fire.
Yup, that's my problem with it.
>My house variant:
> 'Unspecial' humans don't soak *any* damage. Armor provides a
> soak pool.
> 'Competent' humans (hunters, allies) soak normal damage.
> Don't soak aggravated without Fortitude or magic.
> Armor provides an aggravated soak.
> 'Special' humans (mages, Faithful) soak normal damage and may
> attempt to use magick/Faith to prevent/soak
> aggravated. Armor adds to all soak pools.
Yup. Can agree to that.
> Vampires soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with
> Stamina+Fortitude. 'Special' aggravated (fire, faith,
> sunlight) can be soaked *only* with Fortitude dice
> and applicable armor (kevlar doesn't stop Faith
> damage, but a relic might - relic won't stop bullets)
> Bete soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with Stamina.
> 'Special' aggravated (silver, toxic waste) can be
> soaked *only* via Gifts, immunities, or armor
Yup, sounds nice. In addition, I thought about letting
my vamps soak Claw & Fang aggravateds with Stamina
only, but against a difficulty of 8 or 9.
If you look closesly, the only reason why their claws etc.
are aggs is that they are supernatural. Not that good a
reason, I guess ... Claws are claws and don't do other
damage, or damage in another way ...
Comments?
Lena
~~~~~~~
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover
I'm a child, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint
I do not feel ashamed
Soran
David Johnston wrote:
{snip}
> You have an active imagination. Humans not soaking aggravated
> damage is NOT in the Mage main book. It isn't even in the Werewolf
> main book.
But mortals (read; Mages) cannot soak according to Vamp, which is why I asked WW in
the first place and this was the response I got, complete with a line about them being
official rules and to feel free to post them whenever the subject came up. Go figure. The
biggest hurdle is that Mage doesn't state *either way*.
Stunt Borg
On 14 Nov 1997, LenaFalk wrote:
(two arrows in is me, one arrow in is Lena)
> >My house variant:
(snip)
> > Vampires soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with
> > Stamina+Fortitude. 'Special' aggravated (fire, faith,
> > sunlight) can be soaked *only* with Fortitude dice
> > and applicable armor (kevlar doesn't stop Faith
> > damage, but a relic might - relic won't stop bullets)
> > Bete soak normal damage and 'normal' aggravated with Stamina.
> > 'Special' aggravated (silver, toxic waste) can be
> > soaked *only* via Gifts, immunities, or armor
>
> Yup, sounds nice. In addition, I thought about letting
> my vamps soak Claw & Fang aggravateds with Stamina
> only, but against a difficulty of 8 or 9.
> If you look closesly, the only reason why their claws etc.
> are aggs is that they are supernatural. Not that good a
> reason, I guess ... Claws are claws and don't do other
> damage, or damage in another way ...
>
> Comments?
I realized I might not have been fully clear up above in my 'Vampires
soak normal wounds and 'normal' aggravated with Sta+Fort'.
When I said that, I meant that I let vampires soak most aggravated
even without Fortitude. The soak roll is Sta+Fort, so just Sta if they
posses no Fortitude. Only fire, sunlight, and faith damage require
Fortitude, and those can be soaked *only* with the Fortitude pool.
Therefore, Protean claws, the Setite tongue, and vampiric fangs can be
soaked by all vampires. If they aren't soaked, they inflict nasty
aggravated wounds with the usual healing problems.
My ruling on fire is that it's normal aggravated to most creatures,
and 'special' aggravated to vampires (soak only with Fortitude).
The other 'special' aggravated things (sunlight, silver, faith,
wyrmgoo) generally cause either no damage or merely normal damage to
those not specifically weak against them.
Paul Lowe Hlavacek
consequently gives vampires a solid combat edge against
mortals, but lets the Faithful wipe the walls with 'em
LenaFalk
>> Yup, sounds nice. In addition, I thought about letting my vamps soak
>> Claw & Fang aggravateds with Stamina only, but against a difficulty of
>> 8 or 9.
>
>simply ridiculous with their unsoakable hits for 4-8 Agg.
And there's not much sense to Claw & Fang damage being
unsoakable without Fortitude.
David Johnston
> On 14 Nov 1997, Nyarlathotep wrote:
> Agreed.
> >
> > Fire: No soak for sleepers. You get hit with fire, you burn. We all
> > know this as we have all burned ourselves. Regardless of origin; be it
> > magickal, spiritual or napalm.
Absurd. Haven't you ever passed your hand through a candle flame?
If humans couldn't soak fire, that would be like passing your hand
through a blowtorch.
LenaFalk
>> Yup, sounds nice. In addition, I thought about letting
>> my vamps soak Claw & Fang aggravateds with Stamina
>> only, but against a difficulty of 8 or 9.
>> are aggs is that they are supernatural. Not that good a
>> reason, I guess ... Claws are claws and don't do other
>> damage, or damage in another way ...
>>
>> Comments?
>
>I realized I might not have been fully clear up above in my 'Vampires
>soak normal wounds and 'normal' aggravated with Sta+Fort'.
>
>When I said that, I meant that I let vampires soak most aggravated
>even without Fortitude. The soak roll is Sta+Fort, so just Sta if they
>posses no Fortitude. Only fire, sunlight, and faith damage require
>Fortitude, and those can be soaked *only* with the Fortitude pool.
>Therefore, Protean claws, the Setite tongue, and vampiric fangs can be
>soaked by all vampires. If they aren't soaked, they inflict nasty
>aggravated wounds with the usual healing problems.
Well, then you're using the same rules as I do. ;-)
>My ruling on fire is that it's normal aggravated to most creatures,
>and 'special' aggravated to vampires (soak only with Fortitude).
>
>The other 'special' aggravated things (sunlight, silver, faith,
>wyrmgoo) generally cause either no damage or merely normal damage to
>those not specifically weak against them.
Yup. Do agree.
>Paul Lowe Hlavacek
> consequently gives vampires a solid combat edge against
> mortals, but lets the Faithful wipe the walls with 'em
Lena
etho...@flash.net
Brief exposure to a candle flame should be less than a level of
damage, so why should one have to soak it to avoid injury?
Eric the .5b
Visitant Sierra
ejz...@csun.KILL-EMAIL-ADS.edu (Z) wrote:
> Humans also cannot soak aggravated damage. And, if you are using
> offical White Wolf rules, Humans cannot soak at all, period.
" Characters, whether human or wraith, can make
Stamina rolls (difficulty 6) to "soak" (resist) damage."
- Wraith: the Oblivion, second edition, page 233
What official White Wolf rules are you using, question mark?
-Vis
Ian Turner
LenaFalk wrote:
> Yup, sounds nice. In addition, I thought about letting my vamps soak
> Claw & Fang aggravateds with Stamina only, but against a difficulty of
> 8 or 9.
We went with 8. Without it Gangrel became twinks and the Garou were
simply ridiculous with their unsoakable hits for 4-8 Agg.
Ian T
etho...@flash.net
In Article<347039...@telusplanet.net>, <rgo...@telusplanet.net> write:
> It's easy to get a burn small enough to constitute less than a wound
> level. That doesn't mean you haven't been injured.
Correct. It merely means that the injury is too small to worry
about in game terms.
> If fire can not
> be soaked by human beings, that means that any touch by fire should
> instantly scar the skin where it touches.
Why? Just because an injury can't be soaked doesn't mean it can't
be healed.
> Firewalkers should end
> up on their knees, because their feet have been burned away.
Why? Firewalkers receive but the slightest of burning on the
soles of their feet. Has nothing to due with soak, everything to do
with magnitude.
Eric the .5b
Brian Thomas Habing
"Chad Bieber" <cbi...@mines.edu> writes:
>That's like saying that when a dull knife doesn't cut you, it's because
>you're soaking it. When I think of soaking, I think of it as "ya you hit
>me, but I'm supernatural, and that one didna faze me" which is why Vamps
>normally don't soak. I mean, think about it. A Lupe gets hit with a
>shotgun blast, and the guy shooting did a good job with it. He hit, hit
>hard, and did 8 points of damage. That would fry a human, dead nothing he
>can do about it. Humans can't soak. So this Lupe gets hit, he's
>inwhatever form and has 5 pips of stamina. Does well and soaks 4. He
>takes four wounds. That hurts, but he ain't dead, and unless it's silver,
>he'll heal it right quick. This is because Lupes are beastier than people,
>even in Homid form.
A better example than the dull knife might be the being knocked over by
some punk running by on the street. While the offensive lineman doesn't
care (soaks it) the 80 year old grandmother ends up breaking her hip
(definately doesn't soak it).
I prefer to generally view it more as a game mechanic though, and in
that case it seems to unbalance things too much in my games to not allow
everyone to soak everything (except sunlight and fire for vamps) and
silver (not decided yet).
Brian Habing
hab...@stat.uiuc.edu
David Johnston
Chad Bieber wrote:
>
> David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote in article
> <346E04...@telusplanet.net>...
> > > On 14 Nov 1997, Nyarlathotep wrote:
> >
> > > > Fire: No soak for sleepers. You get hit with fire, you burn. We
> all
> > > > know this as we have all burned ourselves. Regardless of origin; be
> it
> > > > magickal, spiritual or napalm.
> >
> > Absurd. Haven't you ever passed your hand through a candle flame?
> > If humans couldn't soak fire, that would be like passing your hand
> > through a blowtorch.
>
> you're soaking it. When I think of soaking, I think of it as "ya you
No, the blunt knife doesn't do any damage because it doesn't do any
damage on simple contact. The same is not true of the candle, which
does.
hit
> me, but I'm supernatural, and that one didna faze me" which is why Vamps
> normally don't soak. I mean, think about it. A Lupe gets hit with a
> shotgun blast, and the guy shooting did a good job with it. He hit, hit
> hard, and did 8 points of damage. That would fry a human, dead nothing he
> can do about it. Humans can't soak. So this Lupe gets hit, he's
Humans can soak. If they couldn't, there would be no soaking
rules in Mage. Or did you mean "can't soak aggravated"?
> inwhatever form and has 5 pips of stamina. Does well and soaks 4. He
> takes four wounds. That hurts, but he ain't dead, and unless it's silver,
> he'll heal it right quick. This is because Lupes are beastier than people,
> even in Homid form.
Silver has no special effects on werewolves in their base form.
> Now the other case, a Vamp gets hit with the same. He's in torpor. He
> can spend the blood and heal it if he's got it, but he's toast if whoever
> he's fighting knows anything. Now, said vamp has fortitude. This is
> supernatural stamina. He can soak a little. No where near what a Lupe
> can, but that's cause Lupes are tanks, made by mother nature to fight, and
> fight damn good. Vamps are NOT made to fight. Vampire:tM is not
Really? That must be terribly shocking to the Gangrel who aren't
particularly good at anything else, except of course the Dr. Dolittle
routine that strikes fear where ever they go.
combat
> oriented. It's a little political, but overall it's mental horror.
> Humanity vs. the Beast. Unlike Lupes, they aren't a dying breed, though
> they are doomed. Rather they are eternal, rumored to be killed in the end,
> but till then it's a battle to save what little of your former self is
> left. That's the game reason that vamps don't soak, with the theoretical
> reason, in my mind, being that they are dead humans. Supernatural only in
> the still living part. They started human, then died, sort of. Lupes were
> born Lupe, as with all weres, it's not a change afterwards, they always
> were. Like the rite that determines if a baby is a were, you burn 'em a
> bit, and if they heal it, it's cool, else there just normal kids.
> Anyways, I'll shut up know.
Chad Bieber
David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote in article
<347039...@telusplanet.net>...
> etho...@flash.net wrote:
> >
> > In Article<346E04...@telusplanet.net>, <rgo...@telusplanet.net>
write:
> > > > On 14 Nov 1997, Nyarlathotep wrote:
> > >
> > > > Agreed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fire: No soak for sleepers. You get hit with fire, you burn.
We all
> > > > > know this as we have all burned ourselves. Regardless of origin;
be it
> > > > > magickal, spiritual or napalm.
> > >
> > > Absurd. Haven't you ever passed your hand through a candle flame?
> > > If humans couldn't soak fire, that would be like passing your hand
> > > through a blowtorch.
> >
> > Brief exposure to a candle flame should be less than a level of
> > damage, so why should one have to soak it to avoid injury?
>
> It's easy to get a burn small enough to constitute less than a wound
> level. That doesn't mean you haven't been injured. If fire can not
> be soaked by human beings, that means that any touch by fire should
> instantly scar the skin where it touches. Firewalkers should end
> up on their knees, because their feet have been burned away.
>
Ok, Theory hasn't worked with small flames, so lets look at the science
part of it. Fire causes damage by heating something up. If it doesn't
heat up enough to be damaged, no problem. This means that fire damage is
proportional to both the size, and temp, of te flame, and the time it is in
contact with whatever it's damaging. Now Vampires are dead. This means
that they are no longer alive. Vampires have blood, but none of the other
bodily fluids which people normally have. Your average person is 90%
water, of which blood makes several quarts. Remove the excess water, and
viola! the vampire heats up faster than a normal human, therefore takes
extra damage from fire. Something spiritual about them makes them unable
to regen this quickly, something about wood and fire being akin to life
which is the opposite to death.
So this shows that in order for there to be damage caused, there must be
flame of intensity and duration long enough to heat the body to a damaging
temp. This is why passing your hand through a candle doesn't hurt. The
candle is not hot enough for it to raise your temperature, even locally,
enough to do damage in the time you are in contact with the flame. This
extends to other things. A bullet won't hurt you unless it's moving fast.
You can pick one up out of a magazine, and you don't have to soak the
wound. It has to be going fast. Swords and knives are a combination of
pressure and sharpness. The blade must be pushed harder the duller the
weapon is, but that doesn't mean someone stabbing at you with a ull knife
won't hurt, nor does it mean that yu would have to soak if you gently
touched the blade of a razor.
Anyways, I hope that clears things up.
Stryver
LenaFalk
>That's the game reason that vamps don't soak, with the theoretical
>reason, in my mind, being that they are dead humans. Supernatural only in
>the still living part. They started human, then died, sort of. Lupes were
>born Lupe, as with all weres, it's not a change afterwards, they always
>were. Like the rite that determines if a baby is a were, you burn 'em a
>bit, and if they heal it, it's cool, else there just normal kids.
Where is it stated that vamps can't soak a bullit???
I guess you should take a look at the rules here.
David Johnston
> > >
> > > In Article<346E04...@telusplanet.net>, <rgo...@telusplanet.net>
> write:
> > > > > On 14 Nov 1997, Nyarlathotep wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fire: No soak for sleepers. You get hit with fire, you burn. We
> all
> > > > > > know this as we have all burned ourselves. Regardless of origin; be
> it
> > > > > > magickal, spiritual or napalm.
> > > >
> > > > Absurd. Haven't you ever passed your hand through a candle flame?
> > > > If humans couldn't soak fire, that would be like passing your hand
> > > > through a blowtorch.
> > >
> > > Brief exposure to a candle flame should be less than a level of
> > > damage, so why should one have to soak it to avoid injury?
> >
> > It's easy to get a burn small enough to constitute less than a wound
> > level. That doesn't mean you haven't been injured.
>
> about in game terms.
>
> > be soaked by human beings, that means that any touch by fire should
> > instantly scar the skin where it touches.
>
> be healed.
So how do we tell soakable damage from unsoakable damage? And why
should fire be placed in the latter category, as opposed to say,
knives?
Nyarlathotep
In article <3472EA...@telusplanet.net>, David Johnston
<rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
-snip-
> So how do we tell soakable damage from unsoakable damage? And why
> should fire be placed in the latter category, as opposed to say,
> knives?
As for the fire argument, last time I checked I got scalded by hot
water and burned by hot metal. While a tough enough callus might have
soaked/ignored this,
not many people have this. Now one could argue that blood extinguishes the
flames and fire only does surface damage, but to a mortal that is surface
damage that hurts. Now I would agree to a soak in conditions of limited,
immediate exposure (struck by a torch), I disagree in the case of a Human
getting covered in jelly-gasoline or sprayed by a flamethrower (and don't
get me started on the asphyxiation these two could cases as well).