Let me get this straight... [LONG!!!]

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Robert Kirkpatrick

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May 17, 2001, 1:01:05 PM5/17/01
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This may be a tired thread on this newsgroup (probably the first, I'm sure),
but I had nothing better to do than try to get my head around this whole
metaplot thing. At first I just ignored the metaplot (and I still will in
all my games), but for some reason I'm suddenly intrigued to try to put it
all together. But I got to admit, I'm downright confused.

So, let me see here... I'm not even sure where to begin... I'm not even
sure I got the order straight.... Please correct any inaccuracies.

It all starts with the Gangrel leaving the Camarilla, because Xavier found
out the truth about the antediluvians. So he's like, "Hey, you bastards,
you're vampires, you're not suppose to lie. Now I know the truth, and I'm
gonna tell Mulder." Since he's so noble and gullible enough to actually
believe what all the other elders have been saying all these centuries,
Xavier walks away sobbing, cuz his fellow vampires have betrayed him. Most
of the other Gangrel leave, too, cuz, you know, Xavier said so.

But you can still play a Gangrel. You're just on your own, and your life
pretty much sucks.

Then a big red star shows up in the sky, that only the supernaturals can
see, and everyone goes, "uh-oh", but no one can figure out which game line
it affects. "Is that the eye of the Wyrm?" "I dunno." "How 'bout the
first sign of the Final Nights?" "I dunno." Only a lone pooka discovers
the truth: "Watch out, it's a cross-over metaplot coming!" But he's killed
before he can reveal anything to the unsuspecting world.

Then a bunch of randy vampires start showing up, some even able to survive
the day, and the vampire community is sent into a tizzy. "You mean, this is
the first time we've ever had 14th or 15th generation vampires? No one's
ever done this thing before? The Tremere didn't even experiment?" "Nope.
See. The red star. It's all in the red star. Nothing can happen before
the red star." "Well, that sucks. What should we do?" "Well, we do what
we always do. Whenever something shows up we don't understand, we
interprete it as the first sign of Gehenna and kill it." "I thought the
return of Aerosmith was the first sign?" "Well then, the second sign."

While down in Mexico, a bunch of Sabbat Tremere antitribu are invited to
this big piñata party being hosted by Tremere/Goratrix/Saulot, or whoever ~
it's a party, who cares! From all over the world, the Tremere antitribu
show up, most likely summoned with mondo Presence, and also because they've
never been known to miss a party, especially with the promise of free
Cuervo. Only one Tremere antitribu is suspicious enough to wonder, "Why are
we all here?" Another Tremere antitribu says, "Probably so we can all get
killed." And they both have a good laugh, cuz they know how contrary that
is to vampire beliefs. Elders killing off their offspring? Get outta here!
Besides, being Sabbat, they're ready for any antediluvian nonsense anyway.
So, everyone's having a rocking good time, dancing to some Prince tunes,
maybe a slow song or two for the lovers out there, and then the host
suddenly decides to up and kill everyone. Talk about a party pooper. Just
because someone forgot the salsa! And as he's disintegrating into ash, the
lone suspicious Tremere antitribu says, "Dammit! I knew that red star meant
something!"

But you can still play a Tremere antitribu. You're just on your own, and
your life pretty much sucks.

Then out of nowhere, the Kuei-jin start showing up, having this
sophisticated society no one noticed until now. And boy are they pissed.
Look at what these Westerners have done to Hong Kong and Tokyo ~ help to
raise their economies, raise everyones standard of living, and now even the
lowiest peasant can eat by buying a happy meal at McDonalds. "Those
bastards!" they all cry, "We must have vengeance."

So some of the cool Chow Yun Fat-looking Kuei-jin ~ never once taking off
their sunglasses ~ head out to California, and in a short period of time,
manage to dismantle the entire Anarch Free States. No one can figure out
how, though ~ not even the elders of the Blood Court or the Camarilla. The
anarchs are even more confused, because each fight they got into, always the
same thing seemed to happen. The Kuei-jin would start to do some dance, and
say she was using Superdooper Shintai 4: Thrashing the Tongue of the
Immortal Serpent. And then the Kuei-jin would stop and say, "Wait, does
that cost Yin Chi or Yang Chi? What do I roll again? Do I need to make a
P'o roll? And what does it exactly do again?" The fight between the
anarchs and the Kuei-jin comes to a grinding halt, as all the Kuei-jin pull
out their rule books, and start looking up their powers. The anarchs don't
stomp on them during that moment, cuz they all are known for fighting fair.

Sometime during this whole mess, almost all of the Stargazers leave the
Garou Nation, mainly to help out their brothers in the Beast Courts back
home (who are just having the hardest time of it, the tea ceremonies and
all), and mainly because they are sick of being asked, "What country are you
from?" and "Do you speak English?" by all the other Garou. The other Garou
are happy to see them go. "They were a stupid tribe to begin with!" The
only people that seem to miss them are the munchkins who played Stargazers
with Kalindo 5.

But you can still play a Stargazer. You're just on your own, and your life
pretty much sucks.

Then, out there in India, Bangladesh, or Pakistan ~ somewhere that Americans
don't have to deal with the consequences ~ the Ravnos antediluvian pops up,
and the first thing he wants to do is get into a massive kung-fu fight.
Three bad-ass Kuei-jin show up to avenge the death of their masters, I
think, or just to show off their Dragon-Tiger-Crane Style kung-fu. The
Ravnos ante previously sent a summons out to all the Ravnos in the world to
join him in this WWF no-holds-barred title match, cuz, dammit, he's an
antediluvian and he wants that belt! Ravnos start showing up, and no one
suddenly notices all the pale bloodsuckers on the airplanes, or the fact
that their wallets are missing. Only one Ravnos is suspicious enough to
wonder, "Why are we all here?" Another Ravnos says, "Probably so we can all
get killed." And they both have a good laugh, cuz they know how contrary
that is to vampire beliefs.

Then, the Technocracy ~ those masters of logic, deductive reasoning,
technology, and Dr. Strangelove type thinking ~ decides to nuke the site of
the battle from orbit. Just in case. Killing or radiating millions of
innocent, non-American, non-European people, effectively destroying a
vampire clan, and the three kung-fu bad-asses, and the whole world goes, eh,
so what. A nuke went off in an area known for being a hotbed of war
tension, but no one really says or does anything. Afterall, it was just a
nuke ~ jeez, it's not like it was the first time a nuke has been set off in
the world. After the fall-out, Kuei-jin wonder if they should have sent
Jackie Chan instead, and the Ravnos have been stomped into a bloodline like
those silly opera singers.

But you can still play a Ravnos. You're just on your own, and your life
pretty much sucks.

Somehow, during this whole mess, the Rom from the World of Darkness: Gypsies
book don't get involved, even though the book is being reprinted. Maybe it
was because the book got such harsh criticism that it forced White Wolf to
shelve World of Darkness: Whitey and World of Darkness: Negro and World of
Darkness: Heathen Chinee ~ but all the Gypsies were pretty much kept out of
the fray.

But the Ravnos antediluvian is not the only one to have appeared. The
Tzimisce ~ you know, the guys who always pronounce their names with a lisp ~
ante is now underneath New York City, mainly because he's always wanted to
see Cats live and on stage. He's still waiting for a show that isn't sold
out. And in Russia, Baba Yaga dies at the hand of bigger bad-ass vampire,
and all the Garou in Russia go, "Damn that was easy. Why did we even bother
to fight? All we had to do was wait." And the Assamites are having a time
of it, because they are no longer cursed, but their risen Methusaleh
super-badass wants them to go out and kill even MORE people. What is an
Assamite suppose to do? At least, Ur-Shulgi didn't invite them to a party.

The Technocracy aren't the only nuke happy bunch. In the Underworld,
wraiths are basically having ectoplasmic orgasms with all the bombs they
found. They decide to use it on the vampire city of Enoch, for no real
reason, except they just hate those bloodsuckers, and because lots of people
didn't like the Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand book. Someone points out to
the Smiling Lord (I think) that the last great Maelstrom was caused by a
nuke, and it nearly destroyed the underworld. The Smiling Lord (I think)
says, "So? And what's your point?" Charon doesn't get involved because
he's mortal now. Apparently they could never get cable down in Stygia, and
he's been missing all his Buffy episodes. Besides, he finally gets to eat
pizza that doesn't scream at him as he bites into it. Oh, yeah, nearly
forgot, the Jade Empire decides to attack Stygia, because heck, the Kuei-jin
are doing it, why not them? Nukes go off and boom goes the most of the
Underworld. Stygia and several necropoli are destroyed, and there's no
longer a civilization for most Wraiths.

But you can still play a Wraith. You're just on your own, and your life
pretty much sucks.

While in the Mage world, everything also blows up. Basically almost every
supplement written before Mage Rev has essentially been destroyed and made
irrelevant to the current metaplot. Chantries, Horizon, the Digital Web,
Book of Barriers ~ all wave bye-bye. Now Mage can have more of that gritty
Matrix feel. However, there is significant net criticism from the Holy
Blood Cult of Brucato that they don't like this new Matrix feel, and they
wish they had taken the other pill instead. In the new book, the
Technocracy discovers that humans are mostly apathetic. Duh, a nuke went
off in India, and no one even batted an eyelid. The Eastern Technocracy is
known as the Zaibatsu (?), and they have different goals from the regular
Technocracy ~ and they figure if this Technocracy gig doesn't work out,
Zaibatsu would make a great name for a new car company. Even though the
Ascension War is over (a war that no one to this day still fully
understands), everyone's still shooting each other. The Technocracy has
won, but that's mostly because the Traditions were still trying to figure
out what was vulgar and what was vulgar w/o witnesses and what was
coincidental. The last Mage who brought up the whiskey flask example was
drawn and quartered several years back.

But you can still play a Mage. You're just on your own, and your life
pretty much sucks.

In Changeling, High King David suddenly ups and disappears, which is the
first time this plot point has ever occurred in a White Wolf book (except
maybe with Charon, or Dante, or Caine, or Saulot). Everyone's now at war
with one another, and all the pookas can do is wonder why every one is so
damn serious all of a sudden. Once upon a time, the worst enemy was the
schoolteacher. Maybe the Fae have been itchin' to get into a major
confrontation for a long time now, ever since they didn't have to use those
damn cards anymore. So a war is going on, with people waving fake swords
around and saying "forsooth" a lot, and no one really pays attention.

As a result of the destruction of the Underworld, wraiths and spectres are
forced out into the mortal world, where they haunt people more, or where
they become zombies, or where they just leave the toilet seat up ~ just
being nuisances all around. A chosen few known as the Imbued ~ not because
of alcohol intake, but because they couldn't figure out another cooler
sounding name, since all the other game lines had taken the best ones ~ they
start to notice all the supernaturals around them. Upon doing so, they get
neato powers, too, so they can kill these monsters. But they must also
choose one overwhelming philosophy, called a Creed, that dictates what they
think of supernatural creatures. The Do-I-Try-To-Heal-Them Creed, the
Kill-Em-All Creed, or the Protect-Humanity Creed. For some reason, there's
no Oh-Shit-I-Run-Like-Hell Creed. There's no mixing and matching, you
pretty much view all the supernaturals the same. The old hunters in Hunters
Hunted are just normal humans, even more normal than these hunters with
powers, so they must suck.

But you can still play an old Hunters Hunted character. You're just on your
own, and your life pretty much sucks.

And as a result, culmination, whatever, of all these preceding events,
Osiris finally gets his lazy ass out of bed, just in time for the Ghost
Storm to hit the Egyptian underworld. He protects some mummies, while the
rest get shredded to bits. The few mummies that survive in the mortal world
end up getting weaker. Osiris goes, "well, that sucks", and distributes a
new spell of life to all those cults that have been waiting for his return
all these thousands of years. They make brand new, fresh off the lot
mummies, and the assembly lines can't move fast enough to meet the demand.
Since the cultists don't have an emergency pull chord like those guys who
work for Saturn, some of these mummies are a little, uh, off. All new
mummies have to take these occasional doctoral exams in front of the Big Bad
Mummy Committee to see if they can get more buff. Osiris is the harshest
judge, saying things like, "Is that your final answer?" No new mummies can
use a life-line or call a friend.

But you can still play one of the original Mummy characters. You're just on
your own, and your life pretty much sucks.

So now, when you're walking down the streets of the World of Darkness, and
you meet some guy in a black trenchcoat, with long hair in a ponytail, in
dark sunglasses, and holding a katana, you can ask: "What are you? A
vampire?" "Nope." "A mage?" "Nope." "A hunter?" "Nope. Keep trying,
you'll get there." "Are you from the Net Highlander supplement?" "Nope."
"A gamer with an inferiority complex, social problems, and some deep-seated
aggressive feelings?" "Nope." "Then what are you?" "I'm a Mummy." "Uh.
Yeah. You're kidding, right?" "Mummies never kid! Die, agent of that big
evil snake thingee that I can't quite pronounce!"

And btw, Xavier never got hold of Mulder. Some guy named Doggett was there.

Did I miss anything?

:) <--- insert smiley face here


Robert Kirkpatrick
Heavenly Creatures
www.mp3.com/HeavenlyCreatures
www.ampcast.com/HeavenlyCreatures

The Dracon

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May 17, 2001, 1:56:14 PM5/17/01
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Robert Kirkpatrick wrote:

<snip absolutely BRILIANT metaplot story explaining the last few years>


> So now, when you're walking down the streets of the World of Darkness, and
> you meet some guy in a black trenchcoat, with long hair in a ponytail, in
> dark sunglasses, and holding a katana, you can ask: "What are you? A
> vampire?" "Nope." "A mage?" "Nope." "A hunter?" "Nope. Keep trying,
> you'll get there." "Are you from the Net Highlander supplement?" "Nope."
> "A gamer with an inferiority complex, social problems, and some deep-seated
> aggressive feelings?" "Nope." "Then what are you?" "I'm a Mummy." "Uh.
> Yeah. You're kidding, right?" "Mummies never kid! Die, agent of that big
> evil snake thingee that I can't quite pronounce!"
>
> And btw, Xavier never got hold of Mulder. Some guy named Doggett was there.

*LOL*

>
> Did I miss anything?

Egypt is the place to be nowadays...

>
> :) <--- insert smiley face here

:-D


The Dracon of Revised Clanbook Tzimisce, and loving it!

The Exalted Lexicon collection:
http://home.wanadoo.nl/the_dracon/exalted_lexicon.rtf
Latest addition: GREAT CURSE, THE (on May 16)

(-=\V/=-)

Ralf Koeper

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May 17, 2001, 1:57:09 PM5/17/01
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Robert Kirkpatrick's head hit the keyboard and produced words of wisdom:

[snip]
> Did I miss anything?

Yeah. You can ignore all that stuff and still play your original game.

You're just on your own, and your life pretty much sucks.

Apart from that, this was the closest thing to that meta-plot FAQ all
folkz were waiting for.

Janus

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May 17, 2001, 2:12:31 PM5/17/01
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>But you can still play a Gangrel. You're just on your own, and your life
>pretty much sucks.

You can play a Gangrel in the Cam. there just aren't as many as their used to
be.

You can play a Gangrel that left the Cam, and be on your own.... but that's how
many Gangrel were anyway.

>But you can still play a Tremere antitribu. You're just on your own, and
>your life pretty much sucks.

Only by invoking the golden rule. The Tremere /antitribu/ are all dust.

>But you can still play a Ravnos. You're just on your own, and your life
>pretty much sucks.

Unless you sire, or find other Ravnos that realize banding together now would
be a _good_ thing. But being Ravnos just sucks anyway, so yes.

>But you can still play a Wraith. You're just on your own, and your life
>pretty much sucks.

The storm came and went, but it was hardly the end all be all.

>But you can still play a Mage. You're just on your own, and your life
>pretty much sucks.

Just can't play the Uberminch powergaming old masters. So, sure.

>Did I miss anything?

You missed that Tzimisce is eating all of his desendants, so life pretty much
sucks for them too. Not to mention any Nosferatu that are getting busy in NYC.

~Janus
SASA

boopy

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May 17, 2001, 2:44:29 PM5/17/01
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*roaring applause*

Christian Gröschel

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May 17, 2001, 3:22:08 PM5/17/01
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OOC:
Sorry, I hate to ask this question, but, besides my english, my
knowledge of WoD Backgorund isnt THAT good, too..u mentioned Tzimisce is
eatinghis childer (Janus mentioned it, 2 be exact).

I thought th ereason for the sabbats exiostence is that the lasombra and
tzimisce young uns KILLED their progenitors? So where does good old
Tzimisce, whatever his name is, come from?

Thx, cu
Chris

Alex Sorokin

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May 17, 2001, 3:32:25 PM5/17/01
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its a conspiracy man!! ::maniacal laughter:: i hope you know what the tenth
level of vicissitude is :

10 . Reform Body
The vampire's body reforms, even after she is destroyed. Yes, you read that
right. She will live forever... like it or not.

And guess who is the only vamp who can gain vicissitude 10? Tzimisce
himself!
"Christian Gröschel" <chrgro...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:3B0424E0...@gmx.de...

MindWeaver

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May 17, 2001, 3:45:04 PM5/17/01
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"Christian Gröschel" <chrgro...@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3B0424E0...@gmx.de...

Lasombra is supposed to have been killed (but who would belive that someone
with obtenebration and dominate actually can be killed)
Tzmisce was never killed though.

> Thx, cu
> Chris

--
.:: MindWeaver ::.

http://www.mindweaver.de

ICQ UIN: 44477321

Tra'Hari Vandaette

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May 17, 2001, 3:54:56 PM5/17/01
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<snip thing about Gangrel>

It's a little more complicated than that. And where did you hear he
found out about the truth of the antedeluvians?

After reading Clan Novel Gangrel, there's an entirely different picture.

Long story short... whiny Toreador finds ancient fleshy artifact that
drives him insane. It also gives him a power that may as well be
Viccisitude.

There is one Gangrel called Tanner, who finds out about this, and calls
an althing. Tanner seems pretty well respected, mostly because Xavier
shows up for this Althing, and he and Tanner seem to know each other.
Also, almost all of clan Gangrel in NY shows up (since it's an althing).

Xavier, Tanner, and someone else goes into a cave where the Tory named
Leopold is becoming more and more insane, and apparently, more and more
powerful. Xavier, Tanner, and some other dude go in. . .and none of them
come out. The Gangrel gathered outside hear screams.

A few minutes later, Leopold comes out, looking none the worse for wear.
The entire gathered group rushes him. . .and the entire gathered group
dies.

Leopold causes lava to seep up, spires of rock to impale everyone. A
couple minutes later, Xavier comes out, tries to nail him. Meanwhile,
Gangrel are dying left and right, desperately trying to take this
Toreador mofo down.

Xavier manages to hurl himself at Leopold, and it looks like he's going
to take him down.

. . .and then Leopold throws him, impaling Xavier on a spike of rock.

Most of the Gangrel are dead now, most notably not the main character of
the novel and Xavier. The Tory walks up to Xavier, clearly enjoying
himself, and fleshcrafts Xavier's arm so it is hopelessly useless and
bent out of shape.

At this point, the details become fuzzy. Somehow, the main character
manages to save Xavier. Xavier is hurting pretty badly, and wanted to
just die there. . .he's pissed at said main character, drives her away,
and it more or less ends there.

Or, if you don't want all of this explanation, in Clanbook Gangrel, it
says that apparently Xavier discovered something more immensely powerful
than the Inner Circle is willing to admit exists. So either they think
he's nuts (or lying), or they want to cover it up, and either way,
Xavier wants no part of it.



> But you can still play a Gangrel. You're just on your own, and your life
> pretty much sucks.

It depends on the city and how you want to run it. Some Gangrel are on
their own, some stick together, and some are getting screwed over since
they're not "officially" on the Camarilla, even though that's totally
bullshit. In the words of the Camarilla clabook: there are Gangrel in
the Camarilla, but Clan Gangrel itself is not in the Camarilla.

<snip thing about Red Star>

It's not so much that they show up at all; it has happened before, but I
don't think it happened enough that a few scattered people knew anything
about it. These few scattered people may or may not be willing to say
anythign about it. Check out Time Of Thin Blood for more info on that;
someone's already doing scientific-esque research on stuff like that,
which is pretty cool.



> But you can still play a Tremere antitribu. You're just on your own, and
> your life pretty much sucks.

I don't know mcuh about how all of this took place... as always, you CAN
play a Tremere antitribu (golden rule!), but you're not "supposed to."

<snip thing about Anarchs, Cathayans>

Because, you know, if the Anarchs didn't fight fair, they'd all pull
together and fight the war together. That's what Anarchs do, after all,
since they're THE most tightly organized faction in the WoD.

<snip thing about Stargazers>

You can still play a Stargazer, it's just better to play them in the
Beast Courts. Other than that, I don't see where the sucks comes from.

<snip thing about Tremere antitribu>

Read more Vampire, especially with regards to the Jyhad.

<snip thing about Technocracy>

Before jumping to such simplistic conclusions like "oh, everything in
the WoD sucks now, and it's stupid," you should _read_ the source
material for yourself.

For instance, read Time of Thin Blood, and the Technocracy guide.

Think about how the Technocracy feels about Vampires. Compare that to
the appearance of an Antedeluvian. They severely underestimated
Vampires, and it scared the crap out of them.

They dropped five, (count em), FIVE frickin spirit nukes on Ravnos, and
no, he didn't die. They attempted to stop that huge-ass monsoon over
Bangladesh, and nothing happened. Yeah, I'd say they overreacted.

Also, it's worth noting that the Technocracy doesn't believe in Avatars.
Thus, a whole buttload of Sleeper and Awakened Avatars were shredded.

> But you can still play a Ravnos. You're just on your own, and your life
> pretty much sucks.

Hmm.. I think I see where you're going with this.. :P



> But you can still play a Wraith. You're just on your own, and your life
> pretty much sucks.

Don't know much about Wraith, but if this summary is like your previous
ones, you should read the source material more carefully.

<snip thing about Mage>

The Digital Web is far from relevant; there's a 2nd book, and it's quite
quite good.

A nuke didn't go off in Bangladesh; a spirit nuke did, which no one
would have noticed except those spiritually attuned.

As far as I'm concerned, the Ascension War was over before it began. The
Traditions used the wrong tactics; instead of converting the Sleepers,
they attacked the Technocracy, which was just plain stupid.

Now, the Traditions doing what they should have been doing. For a better
description of this, read "The Bitter Road." It's an excellent book that
provides a very refreshing perspective on Mage Revised. I might even
argue that there's much more hope in and for the Traditions now than
there ever has been before.

With regards to the Technocracy...

Yeah, no one believes in magic, and no one believes in super science,
either. The rules for belief and Paradox cut both ways. The
Technocracy's goal was to spread science to the masses, but they don't
believe in it anymore.

So yeah, I'd say the Technocracy won.

> But you can still play a Mage. You're just on your own, and your life
> pretty much sucks.

Again, read "The Bitter Road."

> Did I miss anything?

Well.. despite the fact that you seem to have avoided reading anything
and everything having to do with facts and canon, I think you did a
pretty good job of putting together a well reasoned argument based on
sarcasm, conjecture, and hearsay.

- Tra'Hari

Ralf Koeper

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May 17, 2001, 3:53:49 PM5/17/01
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Christian Gröschel wrote:
>
> I thought th ereason for the sabbats exiostence is that the lasombra and
> tzimisce young uns KILLED their progenitors? So where does good old
> Tzimisce, whatever his name is, come from?

This calls for Mandatory Spoiler Space (TM)


...


...


Still with me? Go on.


...


Tzimisce, freaking bastard he is, fleshcrafted himself to look like
his would-be diablerist and one hapless bystander to look like him-
self. So he fooled the pack that came for him into believing him de-
stroyed.

You see, the Sabbat is in for a great surprise...

RabidCabbit

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May 17, 2001, 4:07:01 PM5/17/01
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I kinda expected a comment on the Avatar Winds...

"But you can still play a Dreamspeaker. You're just on your own, and


your life pretty much sucks."

(Why do I suspect this is going to be a catch-phrase for the next few
weeks? (It won't, but nonetheless))

Beautiful post though.

-RC


On Thu, 17 May 2001 12:01:05 -0500, "Robert Kirkpatrick"
<rjk...@swbell.net> wrote:
<snip everything...
For reference, Original post at
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=ec47436e00d7b6e,5
>

Otaku

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May 17, 2001, 4:15:12 PM5/17/01
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Robert Kirkpatrick wrote:
>
> And btw, Xavier never got hold of Mulder. Some guy named Doggett was there.

And Doggett is played by an actor named Robert Patrick.... Hmmm....
*eyes him suspiscously*

> Did I miss anything?

I dunno, but you sure informed me! Good stuff.

No-Brand Hero!

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May 17, 2001, 7:43:15 PM5/17/01
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"Otaku" <swill...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B042F7B...@home.com...

> Robert Kirkpatrick wrote:
> >
> > And btw, Xavier never got hold of Mulder. Some guy named Doggett was
there.
>
> And Doggett is played by an actor named Robert Patrick.... Hmmm....
> *eyes him suspiscously*

"Have you seen this boy?"


NBH!

Robert Kirkpatrick

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May 17, 2001, 7:57:15 PM5/17/01
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"Tra'Hari Vandaette" <tra_...@hotmail.com> wrote in a message a *serious*
explanation about what's really going on in the world of darkness, and that
I should reread all the source material that I actually own and have read ~
all in reply to my silly, little meanderings, because someone actually
believed I was being serious myself.

But I *did* mean the part about Tzimisce being in New York only to get
tickets to see Cats ~ now, that *is* canon and will show up in Transylvania
Chronicles 5: The Return of the Pulsating White Hot Tower of Flesh. Same
book where the Sabbat will hold their annual convention (across from a
Shoney's for convenience's sake). They all decide, "Hey, you know, I'm
tired of being evil. Let's all become Krishnas and go help orphans." The
Sabbat keep careful track of all their receipts so they can be later
reimbursed by the home office.

The Camarilla is completely disoriented, and tries to convince them to go
back to being evil, because they are really tired of seeing them at
airports. The characters must stop the Krishna Heresy, as it comes to be
called, at the same time trying to get the hardest tickets to find in NYC to
appease the theaterical hunger of an antediluvian. Can a combined coterie
of the remaining non-Krishna Sabbat and Camarilla vampires stop this madness
without killing each other?

At the same time, Sascha Vykos shows up on the Jerry Springer show, in a
show called, "My Lover is a Vampire Crossdresser from Hell." Sascha
confesses to his redneck lover, that he's really a he, and that he regular
eats people for a living. The audience boos, and the lover gets mad, and
screams, "But you had parts." Sascha, nearly in tears, can only say, "Parts
is parts." The bodyguards try to keep the two from fighting, but Sascha
absorbs them and the entire audience into the bone cavity of his left toe.
At the end, Jerry gives his final thought, "We can all fall in love with
someone, but we must take responsibility for being honest with our lovers,
and if we truly love them, you will let them know that you are fleshrending,
cross-dressing centuries old, mass murdering vampire with the blood of
millions on your hands, before letting that love go too far." Sascha is
deeply moved.

And the big secret behind the Jyhad is that Malkav himself has been writing
the metaplot. In the final adventure, Malkav is discovered in an Atlanta
RPG company's office, typing away frantically at the computer, and the PCs
have to find a way to stop him before he writes in the big mecha battle
between all the Antediluvians in the next sourcebook, called Gehenna Wing Z:
Caine's Return. But they catch Malkav sometimes putting pink cardboard in
the white paper recycling bin, and tip-toeing away, giggling madly. What
will the characters do with this knowledge? Another morale dilemna ~
monsters we are, lest monsters we become. Should they tattle and risk
losing humanity? This is the heart of mature games for mature gamers,
people.

And that's not all ~ this book's gonna be HUGE:

All the beggar-like splats (Sluagh, Bone Gnawers, Nosferatu) finally get
real jobs, and find they like living in apartments better than sewers and
cardboard boxes. The Ventrue *who were really there* kill off every
annoying SCA person they find. The Camarilla holds a bake-sell to help the
slowly diminishing Salubri line. They raise $20 bucks and the Salubri are
deeply grateful. But then the remaining Ravnos steal it. Can the
characters get that $20 bucks back before the Salubri completely vanish from
the world?

Hunters expose President Bush as a zombie, and America just shrugs ~
especially after Bush gets on the air, and makes fun of not only his misuse
of the English language, but his penchant for the flesh of virgins. "Well,
huh, you know, I'm a Texan boy, and it ain't so much how you say somethin'
as what you don't do when sayin' it. And yep, I'm a decaying zombie, but
I'm an American zombie, and that's all that matters. As for the flesh of
virgins thing, I'm kinda starving up here in D.C." <pause for big laughs
and applause> "Oh, how can you dislike a President who can make fun of
himself," America says.

But the mummies, however, are getting tired of being laughed at. "We are
Amenti." "Amenti? What's that?" "It means we are Reborn." "I don't quite
understand." "We're, ahem, well, mummies." "Mummies? You mean the guys
wrapped in toilet paper?" So the mummies decide to fight back hard. "I'll
show you balance, give me a few hours and I'll have a statue that will kick
your fucking ass!" And the Cathayans finally get back at those Western
devils, by having every Asian-owned laundry burn every Kin-jin's favorite
shirt. The Toreador scream for war, with scorching burnt holes in their
shirts. Such are the subtle maneuverings of the Jyhad. You can feel it in
the air, the end is near.

Hmm. Maybe I shared too much. Gonna ruin the surprise for a lot of you.
Sorry I didn't leave spoiler space. As for the rest of what I posted, it
was utter fabrication and overexaggeration on my part. My sincere
apologies.

Okay, enough talking on the newsgroup. I got crack to sell.

sjwt

unread,
May 17, 2001, 9:11:48 PM5/17/01
to
wohoo!

You can still play a Changeling,
and apparently it wasnt listed as sucking!!

Richard Clayton

unread,
May 17, 2001, 9:59:57 PM5/17/01
to
Flamebait, perhaps, but HILARIOUS flamebait. Well done!
--
Richard Clayton (for...@earthlink.net)
Obligatory Flamebait Response: NO, YOU ARE!!


Machiavelli132

unread,
May 17, 2001, 10:01:43 PM5/17/01
to
That's basically everything I've been forced to ignore about the World of
Darkness...

Richard Clayton

unread,
May 17, 2001, 10:32:06 PM5/17/01
to
Christian Gröschel wrote:

> I thought th ereason for the sabbats exiostence is that the lasombra and
> tzimisce young uns KILLED their progenitors? So where does good old
> Tzimisce, whatever his name is, come from?

* SPOILER SPACE *


Tzimisce's primary physical incorporation was destroyed, yes. But for a
being of his unique and hideous power, physical destruction is really
nothing more than a minor setback. Just as Malkav lives in the troubled
minds of his descendants, so too does Tzimisce live in the poisoned blood of
his line. He simply grows a new body from any Cainite carrying his blood.
This has happened more than once in the past.

CB: Tzimisce Revised is obscure (deliberately, methinks) on the full
ramifications of this fact... for example, can Tzimisce only manifest in a
great-grandchilde with Vicissitude, in the vein of Vicissitude-as-a-disease?
Or ANY Cainite sired by his clan? Or, most frightening of all... what if he
can grow in the body of any vampire who has tasted Tzimisce blood?


adam koebel

unread,
May 17, 2001, 10:35:06 PM5/17/01
to

Janus wrote:

> You can play a Gangrel that left the Cam, and be on your own.... but that's how
> many Gangrel were anyway.
>
> >But you can still play a Tremere antitribu. You're just on your own, and
> >your life pretty much sucks.
>
> Only by invoking the golden rule. The Tremere /antitribu/ are all dust.

But couldn't you just make a Tremere character and then all of a sudden
at the very start of the game say "I quit! Stupid Camarilla! Someone
pleeeease hit me with a shovel!"?

*grin*

Gieljan de Vries

unread,
May 18, 2001, 4:34:12 AM5/18/01
to
Robert Kirkpatrick wrote:

> Did I miss anything?

Nah. Welcome to my saved-post folder - great stuff.

--
Gieljan

Today I wear these chains and am /here/.
Tomorrow I shall be fetterless, /but where/?
-Edgar Allan Poe, The Imp of the Perverse

Lauchlan

unread,
May 18, 2001, 11:33:43 AM5/18/01
to
<<snip most wonderful posts>>

ROFLMAO! This is rich! I loved both posts.

BTW, what about us Gurahl? Are we gonna sleep through it all or wake up
just in time to see the Springer show? I kinda figured we'd wake up, see
the show, go to Shoney's in time to laugh at the Krishna-Sabbat, eat all the
honey in the place then go on and hope the Garou don't decide to turn us
into bear steaks.

After that, I guess one could still play a Gurahl but he'd be on his own and
his life would pretty much suck.

sjwt

unread,
May 18, 2001, 12:07:35 PM5/18/01
to
please,
ingest more and post more

Jason Corley

unread,
May 18, 2001, 12:41:38 PM5/18/01
to
Tra'Hari Vandaette <tra_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <snip thing about Gangrel>

> It's a little more complicated than that. And where did you hear he
> found out about the truth of the antedeluvians?

> After reading Clan Novel Gangrel, there's an entirely different picture.

These two sentences have apparently been carefully designed by Japanese
scientists in order to PISS ME OFF!

ASK YOUR FRIGGING STORYTELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know, nobody actually /plays/ this game,
they just read xkewl fiction about it.


--
***************************************************************************
"I was pleased to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't
know."----- Mark Twain, _Life on the Mississippi_
Jason Corley | le...@aeonsociety.org | ICQ 41199011

Otaku

unread,
May 18, 2001, 12:58:51 PM5/18/01
to
Richard Clayton wrote:

> * SPOILER SPACE *



> Tzimisce's primary physical incorporation was destroyed, yes. But for a
> being of his unique and hideous power, physical destruction is really
> nothing more than a minor setback. Just as Malkav lives in the troubled
> minds of his descendants, so too does Tzimisce live in the poisoned blood of
> his line. He simply grows a new body from any Cainite carrying his blood.
> This has happened more than once in the past.
>
> CB: Tzimisce Revised is obscure (deliberately, methinks) on the full
> ramifications of this fact... for example, can Tzimisce only manifest in a
> great-grandchilde with Vicissitude, in the vein of Vicissitude-as-a-disease?
> Or ANY Cainite sired by his clan? Or, most frightening of all... what if he
> can grow in the body of any vampire who has tasted Tzimisce blood?

I personally would vote for anyone who learns Vicissitude. Because Vic
is carried as a disease, do you have to drink the blood of your teacher
to learn it? I mean, not enough to blood bond you, but at least a
little? If not, I think I'll golden rule that into my games.

Robert Kirkpatrick

unread,
May 18, 2001, 2:48:26 PM5/18/01
to
"Lauchlan" <darkestr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> After that, I guess one could still play a Gurahl but he'd be on his own
and
> his life would pretty much suck.

Well, they're a little better off. The Gurahl have come out of hibernation
and are actually hiding out under the Garou's noses. They've all gotten
jobs at Chuck-E-Cheese's playing the banjo, wearing barbershop quartet hats,
and moving in slow, robotic motions and tapping their feet out of time to
the song. They scare the hell out of little children ~ so at least they're
having some fun. But when the time is right, and the Apocalypse draws near,
they're all gonna collect their game tokens, and trade it in for a frisbee
from the morose, pimply faced Chuck-E-Cheese guy behind the counter who
really, really, really hates his job.

Nicodemus Telrenner

unread,
May 18, 2001, 3:19:34 PM5/18/01
to

"Robert Kirkpatrick" <rjk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:AyTM6.15$5P5....@nnrp1.sbc.net...


<snipped post>

And now you know why I despise advancing metaplot.


Lauchlan

unread,
May 18, 2001, 3:25:30 PM5/18/01
to
ah, thank you thank you thank you! I was wondering how we gurahl fit into
things.

Then again, with what you just described, our lives really DO suck :)

"Robert Kirkpatrick" <rjk...@swbell.net> wrote in message

news:XheN6.22$F4....@nnrp1.sbc.net...

Phaedyme

unread,
May 18, 2001, 9:05:49 PM5/18/01
to

Jason Corley wrote:
>
> Tra'Hari Vandaette <tra_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > <snip thing about Gangrel>
>
> > It's a little more complicated than that. And where did you hear he
> > found out about the truth of the antedeluvians?
>
> > After reading Clan Novel Gangrel, there's an entirely different picture.
>
> These two sentences have apparently been carefully designed by Japanese
> scientists in order to PISS ME OFF!

Yes.



> ASK YOUR FRIGGING STORYTELLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know, nobody actually /plays/ this game,
> they just read xkewl fiction about it.

The amusing thing is, of course, that the storyteller may choose to go
with the novel events. And of course there are people who want to
discuss the world as a work of fiction rather than an environment for
gaming. These are valid approaches as implied by your own approach (do
it the way you want to).

--
Watch This Space | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly,
while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes

unread,
May 18, 2001, 11:39:51 PM5/18/01
to
Thu, 17 May 2001 12:01:05 -0500 in <AyTM6.15$5P5....@nnrp1.sbc.net>,
Robert Kirkpatrick <rjk...@swbell.net> spake:
> This may be a tired thread on this newsgroup (probably the first, I'm sure),
> but I had nothing better to do than try to get my head around this whole
> metaplot thing.

And a lot of drugs to take, apparently.

> damn cards anymore. So a war is going on, with people waving fake swords
> around and saying "forsooth" a lot, and no one really pays attention.

You forgot: "But you can still play a Changeling. You're just on your


own, and your life pretty much sucks."

> So now, when you're walking down the streets of the World of Darkness, and
> you meet some guy in a black trenchcoat, with long hair in a ponytail, in
> dark sunglasses, and holding a katana,

Speaking of Japanese weapons and mummies, I just saw _The Mummy
Returns_. And my #1 complaint? The duel between Evelyn's past life and
the Evil Chick's past life (never mind that in the first movie Evelyn
was the reincarnation of Imhotep's squeeze, but now she's the Pharaoh's
loving daughter), using sai and martial arts. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE
EGYPTIANS DOING WITH SAI AND MARTIAL ARTS?!? They were only barely a
bronze-age civilization at that time, most of their weapons were
wood+flint, with a few rare bronze weapons like khopesh swords, and
essentially none of their surrounding nations had swords. Sai are a
very advanced and specific countermeasure to swords; Europeans invented
the main gauche to serve the same purpose. They're utterly utterly
anachronistic; giving them Levis and digital watches would've been no
worse. The martial arts are just as inauthentic. Martial arts are only
developed after long periods of oppression in a state that deprives
people of weapons; Egyptian peasants were allowed (required? I can't
recall...) to have weapons.

Naturally, too, everyone is reincarnated from the same small group of
people in ancient Egypt. Though they don't mention it directly, Rick &
Evelyn's son is clearly the reincarnation of the Pharaoh's favorite
catamite (look it up if you don't know what that means, people).

Anyway, I mentioned that because _The Mummy_ does show roughly the
same kind of thing as WW's Mummy - you rise from the dead, first as a
half-undead thing, then after a ritual (in WW not sucking life force and
vital organs from people, buncha pansies), becoming fully alive.
Mummies do not walk around in bandages all the time. Except for the
bane mummies, because anything named "bane" has to be really ugly and
disgusting or you wouldn't know it was EEeeeevil.

For me, though, the central image of WW Mummy was when they mentioned
that they can have sex and children... And I pictured a mummy driving a
minivan full of screaming children to soccer practice.

> you can ask: "What are you? A
> vampire?" "Nope." "A mage?" "Nope." "A hunter?" "Nope. Keep trying,
> you'll get there." "Are you from the Net Highlander supplement?" "Nope."
> "A gamer with an inferiority complex, social problems, and some deep-seated
> aggressive feelings?" "Nope." "Then what are you?" "I'm a Mummy." "Uh.
> Yeah. You're kidding, right?" "Mummies never kid! Die, agent of that big
> evil snake thingee that I can't quite pronounce!"

And repeat your Hunter splat rant about Mummy splats.

Very good, sir.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"I will tell you things that will make you laugh and uncomfortable and really
fucking angry and that no one else is telling you. What I won't do is bullshit
you. I'm here for the same thing you are. The Truth." -Transmetropolitan #39

Richard Clayton

unread,
May 19, 2001, 1:14:58 AM5/19/01
to
Otaku wrote:
> I personally would vote for anyone who learns Vicissitude. Because Vic
> is carried as a disease, do you have to drink the blood of your teacher
> to learn it? I mean, not enough to blood bond you, but at least a
> little? If not, I think I'll golden rule that into my games.

I've been told that in earlier versions of V:tM, learning an
out-of-clan Discipline required tasting the blood of a Cainite with that
Discipline. I don't know if that was true in the past, but I can't
recall any mention of it in VRev. A rule like this IS present in Ghouls:
Fatal Addiction, but of course, ghouls don't bear the Curse of Caine in
full.

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 1:17:23 AM5/19/01
to

regarding the sai and martial arts: It's a pulp-genre thing. In that
context, it doesn't matter, at least no more than the idea that a guy
could learn how to cloud the minds of mortal men in Tibet, you know?

regarding Evelyn: She was never the reincarnation of Anck-sunamun in the
first movie.

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 1:26:20 AM5/19/01
to

Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> I've been told that in earlier versions of V:tM, learning an
> out-of-clan Discipline required tasting the blood of a Cainite with that
> Discipline. I don't know if that was true in the past, but I can't
> recall any mention of it in VRev. A rule like this IS present in Ghouls:
> Fatal Addiction, but of course, ghouls don't bear the Curse of Caine in
> full.

It was never true in Vampire, except as a suggestion.

It may have been true in some edition of MET or another.

Richard Clayton

unread,
May 19, 2001, 1:41:48 AM5/19/01
to
Phaedyme wrote:

> It was never true in Vampire, except as a suggestion.
>
> It may have been true in some edition of MET or another.

Ahhh. Thanks for the info. I started with V:tM Rev, so anything
previous is a mystery to me. (^_^)

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 2:19:14 AM5/19/01
to

I forgot: It's an old rule in the Camarilla LARP games, and it wouldn't
be the first time I've heard of someone taking rules from *those* and
assuming they came from Vampire originally.

The Baron Samedi

unread,
May 19, 2001, 2:58:42 AM5/19/01
to
On Fri, 18 May 2001 23:19:14 -0700, Phaedyme <xe...@teleport.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>> Phaedyme wrote:
>>
>> > It was never true in Vampire, except as a suggestion.
>> >
>> > It may have been true in some edition of MET or another.
>>
>> Ahhh. Thanks for the info. I started with V:tM Rev, so anything
>> previous is a mystery to me. (^_^)
>
>I forgot: It's an old rule in the Camarilla LARP games, and it wouldn't
>be the first time I've heard of someone taking rules from *those* and
>assuming they came from Vampire originally.

Is that where the Sons of Chaos came from?

No-Brand Hero!

unread,
May 19, 2001, 3:29:20 AM5/19/01
to

"Phaedyme" <xe...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:3B0601E2...@teleport.com...

>
> regarding the sai and martial arts: It's a pulp-genre thing. In that
> context, it doesn't matter, at least no more than the idea that a guy
> could learn how to cloud the minds of mortal men in Tibet, you know?

At least Furba are generally found somewhere in the vicinity of Tibet :)

NBH!

Christopher Adams

unread,
May 19, 2001, 4:27:45 AM5/19/01
to
> regarding Evelyn: She was never the reincarnation of Anck-sunamun
> in the first movie.

To be precise: Imhotep *does* stare at her and say "Anck-su-namun," but
it's pretty clear that he sees Evelyn only as a way to bring Anck-su-namun
back to life - since, as the sequel demonstrates and as nearly every
incidence of reincarnation in pulp will tell you, reincarnations of people
*always* look exactly like they originally did.

--
Chris "The Tramp" Adams
I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.

"Say no more. Evil's still afoot. And I'm almost out
of that nancy-boy hair gel I like so much. Quickly,
to the Angel-Mobile, away!"

XEAUIK EREF EM-NEMMET
Your Procreative Organ Is Next
Upon The Sacrificial Altar.


joa...@der-joachim.spamblock.myweb.nl

unread,
May 18, 2001, 5:31:57 AM5/18/01
to
adam koebel spoke the following words of wisdom:
:> Only by invoking the golden rule. The Tremere /antitribu/ are all dust.

:
: But couldn't you just make a Tremere character and then all of a sudden
: at the very start of the game say "I quit! Stupid Camarilla! Someone
: pleeeease hit me with a shovel!"?

: *grin*

Sure. However the *bloodline* Tremere antitribu has been wiped out. So
there may be a handful of ``normal'' Tremere in the Sabbat, if they are
suicidal enough, but the antitribu bloodline has been thoroughly wiped
out.

Greetings,
der Joachim
--
Computational linguistics student at Tilburg U., the Netherlands
http://www.der-joachim.myweb.nl/

Servant of reality my hairy ass! (H.P. Derleth, Hollow One)

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 4:44:40 AM5/19/01
to

Father Tim wrote:
>
> It's a current rule in MET (RevLotN, Pg. 133, 'Learning Disciplines'). As
> far as I know it's also a current rule in V:tM tabletop, but I don't have a
> rulebook handy to check.

It's not a current rule in tabletop. My suspicion is that the rule
migrated into LotNRev from the Camarilla house rules, given that nearly
all of the authors are Camarilla members and in a LARP environment the
rule isn't a bad idea.

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 4:45:01 AM5/19/01
to

The Baron Samedi wrote:
>
> >I forgot: It's an old rule in the Camarilla LARP games, and it wouldn't
> >be the first time I've heard of someone taking rules from *those* and
> >assuming they came from Vampire originally.
>
> Is that where the Sons of Chaos came from?

The who?

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 4:45:56 AM5/19/01
to

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> > regarding Evelyn: She was never the reincarnation of Anck-sunamun
> > in the first movie.
>
> To be precise: Imhotep *does* stare at her and say "Anck-su-namun," but
> it's pretty clear that he sees Evelyn only as a way to bring Anck-su-namun
> back to life - since, as the sequel demonstrates and as nearly every
> incidence of reincarnation in pulp will tell you, reincarnations of people
> *always* look exactly like they originally did.

Yes, indeed.

Besides, it's *pulp*.

Phaedyme

unread,
May 19, 2001, 4:47:30 AM5/19/01
to

*shrug* Show me a Tibetan who can see the evil that lurks in the hearts
of minds of all men and cloud those same minds, and I'll show you an
authentic Egyptian sai.

Robert Kirkpatrick

unread,
May 19, 2001, 6:21:20 AM5/19/01
to
"Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes" <kami...@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

>
> And a lot of drugs to take, apparently.

Why is it that people think I was on drugs when I wrote that? Is there a
webcam in my house or something? How did you guys know?

> Speaking of Japanese weapons and mummies, I just saw _The Mummy
> Returns_. And my #1 complaint? The duel between Evelyn's past life and
> the Evil Chick's past life (never mind that in the first movie Evelyn
> was the reincarnation of Imhotep's squeeze, but now she's the Pharaoh's
> loving daughter), using sai and martial arts. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE
> EGYPTIANS DOING WITH SAI AND MARTIAL ARTS?!?

[Warning: Spoilers, maybe...]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I think every gamer and/or martial artist in the
universe noticed that. But I don't think the producers or the writers were
really aiming for that realism or historical accuracy thing. If Imhotep
suddenly whipped out a bazooka and summoned some F-16 fighters, I would've
just shrugged and said, rock on, evil dude. In fact, I thought the ancient
scepter was probably gonna turn into a light saber, anyway. But the thing
that annoyed me the worst in The Mummy Returns, my #1 complaint: the woman
who played Imhotep's reincarnated whatever, the evil one ~ what a sucky
actor. "I. Love. You. Imhotep. Oh. Watch. Out. Behind. You. Let.
Me. Make. Strange. Expressions. With. My. Eyebrows." Plus, I would
rather have seen a full-on battle royale between the computer-generated
Scorpion Monster Thing and the Mummy *with* his powers in tact. That
would've been way groooooovy and gotten my gamer-geek blood pumpin'.

Ever since I turned 30 (or was that 10), I've stopped taking Hollywood all
that seriously. Besides, I went and saw A Knight's Tale afterwards,
and..."we will, we will, ROCK YOU..." Loved that movie. Of course,
everyone I know in the SCA hated it. But no one I know in the SCA plays a
common peasant, either, or can actually stay on a horse for more than five
minutes. I don't go to them, but I think at the next event, I'm gonna go as
Mark Twain's Conneticut Yankee.

Juho Lankinen

unread,
May 19, 2001, 6:34:04 AM5/19/01
to
"Robert Kirkpatrick" <rjk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:KFZM6.152$i03.1...@nnrp3.sbc.net...

[Snip]

*applause*

Both posts went straight to my Folder of the Saved.

Juho Lankinen
Sleep is the Enemy


RabidCabbit

unread,
May 19, 2001, 12:32:12 PM5/19/01
to
On 17 May 2001 18:12:31 GMT, samiel...@aol.com (Janus) wrote:

>>But you can still play a Tremere antitribu. You're just on your own, and


>>your life pretty much sucks.
>

>Only by invoking the golden rule. The Tremere /antitribu/ are all dust.

I don't know, but the new flaw ("Mark of the Betrayer" was it?) in the
CB: Tremere Rev seems to imply otherwise. Unless they're offering it
up in support of people using the Golden Rule, apparently several
Tremere-Antitribu survived the masacre (most likely though not being
present.)

-RC

RabidCabbit

unread,
May 19, 2001, 12:38:11 PM5/19/01
to
On Sat, 19 May 2001 05:21:20 -0500, "Robert Kirkpatrick"
<rjk...@swbell.net> wrote:

>"Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes" <kami...@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>


>>
>> loving daughter), using sai and martial arts. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE
>> EGYPTIANS DOING WITH SAI AND MARTIAL ARTS?!?
>
>

>Yeah, I noticed that too. I think every gamer and/or martial artist in the
>universe noticed that. But I don't think the producers or the writers were
>really aiming for that realism or historical accuracy thing. If Imhotep
>suddenly whipped out a bazooka and summoned some F-16 fighters, I would've
>just shrugged and said, rock on, evil dude.

*holds his head as he's struck by Bill & Ted flashbacks*

Okay, I'm good now... I think.

-RC

Mavis Fizpatrick

unread,
May 19, 2001, 12:57:19 PM5/19/01
to

>> >I forgot: It's an old rule in the Camarilla LARP games, and it wouldn't
>> >be the first time I've heard of someone taking rules from *those* and
>> >assuming they came from Vampire originally.
>>
>> Is that where the Sons of Chaos came from?
>
>The who?

The Sons of Chaos for the now-extinct male daughters. I have seen it
time and time again mentioned on the Net, but no one will ever point
me to a single place in the books where it is from. no reference, only
"they are the male daughters. of course they are" I am still waiting.
I guess I could have missed it, but...


Kish

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May 19, 2001, 2:39:14 PM5/19/01
to

"Mavis Fizpatrick" <bar...@highpoint.net> wrote in message
news:3b09a788.6390078@news-server...

>
> The Sons of Chaos for the now-extinct male daughters. I have seen it
> time and time again mentioned on the Net, but no one will ever point
> me to a single place in the books where it is from. no reference, only
> "they are the male daughters. of course they are" I am still waiting.
> I guess I could have missed it, but...
>

I presume you mean the Sons of Discord, not Chaos?

They're not/never were in Tabletop, I can say that much.

--
--Kish
ICQ# 28085879
AIM Kish K M


Phaedyme

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May 19, 2001, 6:36:09 PM5/19/01
to

Mavis Fizpatrick wrote:
>
> >The who?
>
> The Sons of Chaos for the now-extinct male daughters. I have seen it
> time and time again mentioned on the Net, but no one will ever point
> me to a single place in the books where it is from. no reference, only
> "they are the male daughters. of course they are" I am still waiting.
> I guess I could have missed it, but...

They don't come from the Camarilla, to my knowledge.

The_Livewire

unread,
May 20, 2001, 8:18:43 AM5/20/01
to
"Robert Kirkpatrick" <rjk...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:91sN6.969$291.2...@nnrp2.sbc.net...
> "Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes" <kami...@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>

> >
> > Speaking of Japanese weapons and mummies, I just saw _The Mummy
> > Returns_. And my #1 complaint? The duel between Evelyn's past life and
> > the Evil Chick's past life (never mind that in the first movie Evelyn
> > was the reincarnation of Imhotep's squeeze, but now she's the Pharaoh's
> > loving daughter), using sai and martial arts. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THE
> > EGYPTIANS DOING WITH SAI AND MARTIAL ARTS?!?

I think Evie was means to an end, rather than the reincarnation.

> [Warning: Spoilers, maybe...]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah, I noticed that too. I think every gamer and/or martial artist in
the
> universe noticed that. But I don't think the producers or the writers
were
> really aiming for that realism or historical accuracy thing. If Imhotep
> suddenly whipped out a bazooka and summoned some F-16 fighters, I would've
> just shrugged and said, rock on, evil dude. In fact, I thought the
ancient
> scepter was probably gonna turn into a light saber, anyway.

You too? I was thinking rod of Lordly Might myself.

> But the thing
> that annoyed me the worst in The Mummy Returns, my #1 complaint: the woman
> who played Imhotep's reincarnated whatever, the evil one ~ what a sucky
> actor. "I. Love. You. Imhotep. Oh. Watch. Out. Behind. You. Let.
> Me. Make. Strange. Expressions. With. My. Eyebrows."

Sorry, I was observing her other attributes...

> Plus, I would
> rather have seen a full-on battle royale between the computer-generated
> Scorpion Monster Thing and the Mummy *with* his powers in tact. That
> would've been way groooooovy and gotten my gamer-geek blood pumpin'.

Yeah, and then the CGI scorpion thing comes out and I could picture Imhotep
saying "Oh shit, this is supposed to be fair?"

And Rick said the wrong thing to make Evie leave. He should have yelled
"Evie! Run! Don't let Johnothan raise our child!"

Though I felt sorry for Imhotep at the end. I mean he risked death and
damnation what, 4, 5 times in the course of the movie and she bails?

That said, Mummy 3 (you know it's coming) should be Rick and Evie vs
something else besides Imhotep.

> I don't go to them, but I think at the next event, I'm gonna go as
> Mark Twain's Conneticut Yankee.

Can't be worse than the guy I saw at a ren-fair in full tie fighter provider
regalia. "come on, it was a long long time ago, but you forgot the galaxy
far away part."

> Robert Kirkpatrick


--
The Livewire
Matthew Morris
Balinok on AIM 22400865 on ICQ.
"I never knew how empty my soul, until it was filled." -Excaliber


Lauchlan

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May 21, 2001, 9:49:44 AM5/21/01
to
ok, I know I'm an idiot but...

What is the Golden Rule you guys are speaking of here...I have a feeling
it's not "do unto others..."?

"RabidCabbit" <rabid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3b069ff0.1431733@news...

Lauchlan

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May 21, 2001, 9:56:48 AM5/21/01
to
The evil robot usses kidnapped the princesses!!!


"RabidCabbit" <rabid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3b06a2c2.2153348@news...

Ralf Koeper

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May 21, 2001, 9:55:30 AM5/21/01
to
Lauchlan wrote:
>
> What is the Golden Rule you guys are speaking of here...I have a feeling
> it's not "do unto others..."?

Nope, it's that golden rule that is printed on every second page
of the rulebooks, but nevertheless is widely ignored (as you can
see by the usual "That mind-Nazi forces me to play <whatever>"-
flamewars in this group):

Take what you like, ignore the rest, it's your game!

In this case, if you don't like the Tremere Antitribues as deco-
rative ash piles, but alive and kicking, have fun with it.


Ralf

Otaku

unread,
May 21, 2001, 10:48:15 AM5/21/01
to
Lauchlan wrote:
>
> ok, I know I'm an idiot but...
>
> What is the Golden Rule you guys are speaking of here...I have a feeling
> it's not "do unto others..."?

The Golden Rule: There are no rules. Everything in this book are just
suggestions. Etc, etc.

RabidCabbit

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May 21, 2001, 2:04:32 PM5/21/01
to

mhmm, or as I like to put it,
"White Wolf: Rules Optional"

-RC

Lauchlan

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May 21, 2001, 2:48:23 PM5/21/01
to
ah, thanks everybody. Guess I'm one of those that never noticed that :)

"RabidCabbit" <rabid...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3b095a38.180218045@news...

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes

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May 21, 2001, 7:47:32 PM5/21/01
to
Sat, 19 May 2001 05:21:20 -0500 in <91sN6.969$291.2...@nnrp2.sbc.net>,
Robert Kirkpatrick <rjk...@swbell.net> spake:

> "Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes" <kami...@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu>
>> And a lot of drugs to take, apparently.
> Why is it that people think I was on drugs when I wrote that? Is there a
> webcam in my house or something? How did you guys know?

Lucky guess. The cable in your TV does not go both ways, consumer.

> Ever since I turned 30 (or was that 10), I've stopped taking Hollywood all
> that seriously.

Well, sure, I've never taken Hollywood seriously, but it was just *so*
blatant if you know anything about Egypt, and they at least tried for
authenticity on the setting and the language, so I wasn't expecting
something that cheezy.

Mind you, I didn't bat an eye at bane mummies running on walls or
Evelyn exploring a tomb in a skin-tight outfit or an army of Egyptian
demons turning into ash (though they should've had chariots and archers,
too).

> Besides, I went and saw A Knight's Tale afterwards,
> and..."we will, we will, ROCK YOU..." Loved that movie.

Haven't seen it yet, plan to.

> Of course,
> everyone I know in the SCA hated it. But no one I know in the SCA plays a
> common peasant, either, or can actually stay on a horse for more than five
> minutes. I don't go to them, but I think at the next event, I'm gonna go as
> Mark Twain's Conneticut Yankee.

I tried to join the SCA once, but they got pissed off when I wanted to
come as a peasant with the bubonic plague. I was gonna get makeup for
the buboes, and carry a few extra kits so I could give other people the
plague, too...

They *REALLY* got mad when I explained that the plague is what
liberated Europe from the Dark Ages, by reducing the population density
from "we barely get enough to eat" levels to the "wow, we've got all
this STUFF! Let's go into business!" level of the Renaissance.

Without the plague, Europeans would *still* be wallowing in shit and
eating turnips. See _Advunced Peasants and Crapmongers_
<http://web.ukonline.co.uk/morbius/doth/APnC.html> for a realistic
medieval RPG...

The only authentic thing in the SCA is that they never bathe.

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"I will tell you things that will make you laugh and uncomfortable and really
fucking angry and that no one else is telling you. What I won't do is bullshit
you. I'm here for the same thing you are. The Truth." -Transmetropolitan #39

No-Brand Hero!

unread,
May 23, 2001, 4:57:43 AM5/23/01
to

"Lauchlan" <darkestr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tgi7i1d...@corp.supernews.com...

> The evil robot usses kidnapped the princesses!!!

Kudos to you, good human usses!!

NBH!

Dagon

unread,
May 25, 2001, 2:59:46 PM5/25/01
to
Very funny, cool.

It looks like WW is something like the Wy... Hydra, each
head snapping at some other head, in a desperate attempt
to get coherent. That's the problem with all of this becoming
a big bloated hobby; there's this bandwagon effect and now
many people are on board trying to give direction to the
wagon.

You can always *totally dump* the megaplot. I have always
advocated doing so, and being very selective about the crap
that was being shitted of late out by The WW Company. But to
no avail, now they are stuck with a cancerous pile of nonsense,
most of it of lower quality than pokemon manga. No amount of
wild and frantic eliminating will do. No amount of levelheaded
editing will do. An appreciable percentage of the fans will
always be dissappointed, no matter what kind of electroshocks
or chemotherapy they try to apply on the festering corpse. The
fan base will grow younger, less discriminating, more munchkin,
infantile and jaded, and in a few years we'll can expect The
White Wolf Movie, with absolutely no coherent plot, excellent
special effects and no profit.

Too bad all really cool things spoil so fast in this world.

Stephenls

unread,
May 25, 2001, 5:29:26 PM5/25/01
to
Dagon wrote:

<snip>

And what brings you back at this time, oh Exploiter Of WW?
--
Stephenls
"[NOTE TO SELF: INSERT WITTY COMMENT HERE]"
Geek
The price of getting what you want is getting what you once wanted.
--Gaiman

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