Cappadocian to giovanni
Uias
do you know when Augustus Giovanni had diablerized Cappadocius ?
How do you make the transition between Cappadocian and Giovanni in
transylvania chronicles?
Gael
Ted Karampilas
As for Transylvania, I would say without the Cappadician metir "Giovanni
Lineage", someone is writing up a new character...
Ted
Soonmot
>
>The year of the Diablerie was 1444 ( see Giovannin Chronicles 1)
>
>As for Transylvania, I would say without the Cappadician metir "Giovanni
>Lineage", someone is writing up a new character...
>
>Ted
actully that sounds like it would be an interesting "side quest" detailing how
long it took the giovanni to destroy the cappadocian player. Do his cotrie
mates sell him out? protect him? (*major* life boon) does he survive, change
his appearence, go underground, retreat into torpor? lots of interesting
possibilities.
---Mike
JUPITER THUNDER DRAGON
CRAAAAAASH!!!
members.aol.com/soonmot/main.html
ICQ: 31886917
"do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"
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juice!"
--Barney, The Simsons
Angstboy (OTH)
Uias wrote in message <7c2mc0$5fm$1...@platane.wanadoo.fr>...
>Hi,
>
>do you know when Augustus Giovanni had diablerized Cappadocius ?
>
>How do you make the transition between Cappadocian and Giovanni in
>transylvania chronicles?
>
>Gael
Usual procedure is to have a peckish Giovanni latch onto the character's
neck and suck out their soul.
Angstboy (OTH)
"Simon Peter was a speed freak
Pilate was one too!
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John
Were all high from sniffing glue
Timothy was the publican
He was downing 80 shilling
Thaddeus dropped some angel dust
Man he made a killing.... "
-DAAS, Catholic Girls on LSD
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> The year of the Diablerie was 1444 ( see Giovannin Chronicles 1)
>
> As for Transylvania, I would say without the Cappadician metir "Giovanni
> Lineage", someone is writing up a new character...
Why? It's very clear that not all Cappadocians died in the Giovanni
purges... Killing off NPCs in the clan is one thing, killing off PCs
without a chance for survival is just a bad idea - unless the player agrees
to it.
--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Lydia M. (Brujah) |Verdandi Anagnosis (Legion of Fate)
Madelynne (Malkavian)|Anjelika Cass (undisclosed)
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya
Destil
of several flaws:
Hunted
Enemy
Dark Fate
Prolly others apply too, but those are the top few I can think of.
--
__________________________________________
visit the official Embraced Network Site
at http://www.embraced.net
__________________________________________
Uias
Angstboy (OTH) a écrit dans le message
<4FoF2.28714$Hn5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>...
Sorry, i have forgotten to say that the cappadocian is from giovanni
blood...
Gael
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> Sure is a bad idea, however the character would immediately recieve one
> of several flaws:
> Hunted
> Enemy
> Dark Fate
>
> Prolly others apply too, but those are the top few I can think of.
Rather than forcing this sort of thing down a player's throat, I'd prefer
to discuss it with the player beforehand.
Brandon Quina
> Sure is a bad idea, however the character would immediately recieve one
> of several flaws:
> Hunted
> Enemy
> Dark Fate
I would *most likely* require any cappadocian character in a game that
I intend to run so long that the Giovanni Purge actually happens to take
Dark Fate anyway. I wouldn't if the game wasn't going to go that far in
the future, as it just wouldn't be important, but if it *did*.... Well,
you all get the picture.
Brandon,
up *wayyyyy* too late
Uias
All right, but what append when the character is a cappadocian from giovanni
blood?
gael
Ratspaw
> Rather than forcing this sort of thing down a player's throat, I'd prefer
> to discuss it with the player beforehand.
I would imagine a player who would pick to play a Cappadocian in the
scenario where all the Cappadocians get the hammer would have to be
expecting something of the kind. I doubt it would come as a complete
shock..
Ratspaw
The humble rat stands as proof that survival of the
fittest is about so much more than mere strength.
Destil
game....
not all is hunky dory in the WoD, players don't always get the things
they want. The trick is to have them learn of their new flaw through
game play, not just say at the start of your next session, "Oh, by the
way, you got this really nasty flaw because you aren't supposed to exist
any more." What is really fun is to work it into the story so that it
seems his being hunted, or having an enemy is at least partly his fault.
kis...@mindspring.com
Uias wrote in message <7c5h8o$4r2$1...@platane.wanadoo.fr>...
>
>All right, but what append when the character is a cappadocian from
giovanni
>blood?
>
1) At this precise moment of the diablerie, he changes. Let him keep his
levels of Auspex, Fortitude, and Mortis, but make him pay out-of-clan costs
for further levels, while letting him buy Dominate and Potence at in-clan
costs.
2) If you want to play it that the Giovanni weakness came from Augustus
diablerizing Lamia, convert the Merit "Giovanni Lineage" to the Merit
"Sanguine Incongruity." If you prefer that the weakness came from the curse
Japheth (sp?) put on Augustus, describe how the character's features
suddenly aquire the color of a normal vampire, and the next vessel he bites
into screams and squirms.
That's how I'd do it.
Kish
Brandon Quina
> All right, but what append when the character is a cappadocian from giovanni
> blood?
Absolutely nothing. Unless he decided to do something stupid, like
side with his Cappadocian "cousins", then he'd survive the Purge. If he
*did* do that it would be a totally in character decision. No flaws, no
merits.
Brandon,
Brandon Quina
> My advice--just my advice--is:
> 1) At this precise moment of the diablerie, he changes. Let him keep his
> levels of Auspex, Fortitude, and Mortis, but make him pay out-of-clan costs
> for further levels, while letting him buy Dominate and Potence at in-clan
> costs.
My advice would be to take a look at how his disciplines are now. Does
he have at least a few dots -- out of clan, of course -- in the Potence
and Dominate disciplines? If so, then do what kish suggests and switch
the clan disciplines. If he's stuck firmly with more "cappadocian
disciplines", then I'd probably let him keep his old cappadocian clan
disciplines...
> 2) If you want to play it that the Giovanni weakness came from Augustus
> diablerizing Lamia, convert the Merit "Giovanni Lineage" to the Merit
> "Sanguine Incongruity." If you prefer that the weakness came from the curse
> Japheth (sp?) put on Augustus, describe how the character's features
> suddenly aquire the color of a normal vampire, and the next vessel he bites
> into screams and squirms.
I, personally, would have the change happen quite slowly and not to
every individual giovanni. It would depend on rather he switched to the
new Giovanni clan disciplines. If he has switched to the the new clan
disciplines, then he would slowly switch weaknesses. Over the course
of, probably a year, his skin would slowly regain normal pallor and he
would inflict terrible pain whenever feasting on mortals. If he has
remained a Cappadocian remnant, similiar to the "Aquadiluvians", then
I'd pretty much leave him alone. Sanguine Incongruity, all the way.
Brandon,
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> Marizhavashti Kali wrote:
> > Rather than forcing this sort of thing down a player's throat, I'd prefer
> > to discuss it with the player beforehand.
>
> I would imagine a player who would pick to play a Cappadocian in the
> scenario where all the Cappadocians get the hammer would have to be
> expecting something of the kind. I doubt it would come as a complete
> shock..
No, but in such a case I'd rather discuss player expectations beforehand
rather than jump up and down on it later.
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> But if you talk to your player about it you may ruin part of the
> game....
No it will not. Most players are savvy to the fact that the Giovanni kill
the Cappadocians (when and where, not everyone knows...). So if someone
creates a character in a Dark Ages game intended to last until the modern
day, then I expect that player already knows what's in store.
I've found that discussing these issues in advance does nothing to ruin the
game: Indeed, I would say it enhances it. It brings the player into a
position to have direct input about his character's future, the game's
direction, etc. To be sure, I do this *all the time* as it is. The game is
a cooperative effort, not a chance for the ST to play control freak all
over his players.
> not all is hunky dory in the WoD, players don't always get the things
> they want. The trick is to have them learn of their new flaw through
True. Not everyone gets what they want - but if you consistently toss
things at players that they *don't* want, they'll leave. If you don't
communicate with them to see what they'd *like* to do, they may not enjoy
the game. This is a case where the player envisions a potential future for
his character (which may be: killed by the Giovanni and he became a wraith,
or it may be: Tries to avoid the purge). Sure, the character doesn't know
these things, but the *players* do. Yes, I know that OOC/IC is necessary,
and so do my players. Still, people think "when this happens, I'd likt this
other thing to happen."
> game play, not just say at the start of your next session, "Oh, by the
> way, you got this really nasty flaw because you aren't supposed to exist
> any more." What is really fun is to work it into the story so that it
> seems his being hunted, or having an enemy is at least partly his fault.
Naturally...but again, I'm not all for shoving it down a player's throat.
I'd rather discuss how he'd like to handle it before making any decisions
If he says "surprise me," that's one thing. If he says "I'd like to do
these things and see what happens," that's another. But it's much more
satisfying to me in the long term than to simply inflict without giving him
a chance to express what he *wants* to play (isn't this about everyone
having fun?).
Doug Kern
> The year of the Diablerie was 1444 ( see Giovannin Chronicles 1)
>
> As for Transylvania, I would say without the Cappadician metir "Giovanni
> Lineage", someone is writing up a new character...
>
> > do you know when Augustus Giovanni had diablerized Cappadocius ?
> >
> > How do you make the transition between Cappadocian and Giovanni in
> > transylvania chronicles?
Well there are a few ways to handle the non Giovanni Cappadocians. You
could have the character slowly notice his death like pallor is getting
worse and his body is starting to rot. Eventually he could become a
Samedi, which do have a NPC out there with Mortis so there is a precident
for it. Maybe eventually he could learn Thanatosis. If the Cappadocian
alread has the rotting flaw, so much the better.
The PC could sell out and side with the Giovanni. Maybe he could
betray the other Cappadocians, maybe tell the Giovanni where a group of
Capadocians are hiding. In this case he would probally be adopted into
the family, yet still have his old disciplines.
Capadocian goes Caitiff. While he still has all his weakness and clan
stuff, he becomes a social caitiff. Could be pulled off if the PC manages
to learn a hodge podge of disciplines, especially the physical ones.
Though the Giovanni mastry of Necromancy could have this be hard thing to
pull off with the ability for them to summon spirits that may have known
him before the purge.
Cappadocian has some powerful group of vampires protect him. Maybe
some Ventrue or Tremere decide to hide him. Lasombra would probally be
out, they have other problems to deal with at this time.
--
Doug Kern
AKA Monocle
ICQ Page #:8793444
dke...@idt.net
Homepage: http://idt.net/~dkern2
Come visit the Shrine to Blackarachnia!:http://idt.net/~dkern2/Blackarachnia
Destil
am not ST, prefer not to know OOC information when at all possible. The
"suprise me" effect in our game is one of the most enjoyable aspects. I
can understand wanting to talk to the player about things and getting
his input, in fact I do this, but in a different way, which you may also
find quite useful, if you are interested...
I have this form that asks specific questions about the characters
viewpoints and both short-term and long-term goals. These inputs give
me the information that I need so that I am not only shoving bad things
or my story down their throats. It allows me to tailor make my story so
that I retain both the character and player's interest, at the same time
I may realize directions that things *might* go, if not in the direction
I have planned, so I can be slightly more prepared for what would
otherwise be the unexpected.
I do agree that maintaining the player's interest is of high priority to
the coheisiveness of any game. I just believe that occassional "Oh,
F*ck!" is enjoyed by most players.
Marizhavashti Kali
>
> I guess I am just used to the majority of the players, and myself when I
> am not ST, prefer not to know OOC information when at all possible. The
> "suprise me" effect in our game is one of the most enjoyable aspects. I
> can understand wanting to talk to the player about things and getting
> his input, in fact I do this, but in a different way, which you may also
> find quite useful, if you are interested...
Oh, don't get me wrong. Surprise is a valuable tool and should be used
whenever necessary. With my original point out of the way, allow me to add
that:
* Discussing player expectations doesn't mean that we're mapping out the
future. Setting up possibilities, sure... But stuff like that (the player
knows the Capps are going to go down in 1444), I want to know what the
player expectations are. If he wants to play a character with a fighting
chance, I'll go for that. If he wants a tragic death, I'll go for that too.
I'd rather know what the player would like to do with the character before
forcing a story he won't enjoy.
Once the basics are established, surprise will come. I'm sure that the
Lasombra in my DA game didn't want to accidentally embrace some Italian
woman...but there he is. :-)
> I have this form that asks specific questions about the characters
> viewpoints and both short-term and long-term goals. These inputs give
That's a great idea, btw. This sort of thing can only help a game along. I
should do more of this, but I usually accomplish this by discussing these
questions face to face. Different technique.
> I do agree that maintaining the player's interest is of high priority to
> the coheisiveness of any game. I just believe that occassional "Oh,
> F*ck!" is enjoyed by most players.
Awwww, yeah. Preach it! :-)
Bruce Tzu
<snip>
I was going to write some follow-up, but realized that Deirdre has
really nicely encapsulated my own philosophy of Storytelling. So all I
can say is "what she said" about cooperation and planning.
--
<*> ICQ 27599289 <*> http://www.sff.net/people/bruce-baugh
"I know it's a dead horse, but it makes a neat sound when I thump it."
-- David Bolack
Nex
One possibility is to allow the character to create hir own bloodline (if it
is powerfull enough, that is) This is what I intend to do anyway + some
major characters owe me boons of different degrees. I AM a Cappadocian, you
know ;-)
Geoffrey Salisbury
Ted Karampilas
Uias wrote:
> Angstboy (OTH) a écrit dans le message
> <4FoF2.28714$Hn5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>...
> >
> >Uias wrote in message <7c2mc0$5fm$1...@platane.wanadoo.fr>...
> >>Hi,
> >>
> <SNIP>
> >>Gael
> >
> >Usual procedure is to have a peckish Giovanni latch onto the character's
> >neck and suck out their soul.
> >
> >Angstboy (OTH)
> >
> <SNIP>
> Sorry, i have forgotten to say that the cappadocian is from giovanni
> blood...
>
> Gael
Hello again...Then I guess you have the option of allowing him/her to
participate in the Cappadocian purgeIt would make for an interesting
interlude...
Ted
Kintaro Oe
>
>1) At this precise moment of the diablerie, he changes. Let him keep his
>levels of Auspex, Fortitude, and Mortis, but make him pay out-of-clan costs
>for further levels, while letting him buy Dominate and Potence at in-clan
>costs.
that's you're idea, but I don't think that the blood changes. The
Cappadocian who was Giovanni in life remains Cappadocian in death, no
matter what happens to the Antedeluvian. Look at the Salubri. The True
Brujah. Any group that has their Antedeluvian slurped.
also look in the Giovanni Clanbook at the Primascines (or something).
They are technically Cappadocians, but they are loyal to the Giovanni.
kabael
Kintaro Oe
>> the coheisiveness of any game. I just believe that occassional "Oh,
>> F*ck!" is enjoyed by most players.
>
>Awwww, yeah. Preach it! :-)
nothing stirs my heart more than when a player starts muttering "Fuck!
We're dead! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!" when something shows up.
-That's- a major part of why I storyteller.
You can also use OOC knowledge to scare them too...
you should have seen the two Giovanni player's faces when the Prince
of Rome called them "Harbingers." :)
kabael
Prodigal
Soonmot wrote in message <19990310012836...@ng33.aol.com>...
>>
>>
>>The year of the Diablerie was 1444 ( see Giovannin Chronicles 1)
>>
>>As for Transylvania, I would say without the Cappadician metir "Giovanni
>>Lineage", someone is writing up a new character...
>
how
>long it took the giovanni to destroy the cappadocian player. Do his cotrie
>mates sell him out? protect him? (*major* life boon) does he survive,
change
>his appearence, go underground, retreat into torpor? lots of interesting
>possibilities.
Hey, your player could wind up being the first Harbinger of Skulls...
kis...@mindspring.com
>Cappadocian who was Giovanni in life remains Cappadocian in death, no
>matter what happens to the Antedeluvian. Look at the Salubri. The True
>Brujah. Any group that has their Antedeluvian slurped.
>
The True Brujah..specifically those not descended from Troile. What about
those Troile Embraced before diablerizing his sire? Why aren't they among
the True Brujah? The Salubri are not descended from Tremere and thus not
relevant here.
>also look in the Giovanni Clanbook at the Primascines (or something).
>They are technically Cappadocians, but they are loyal to the Giovanni.
The description of them doesn't say whether they have Cappadocian clan
Disciplines and weakness or Giovanni ones, although the narrator talks about
how impressive their *Necromancy* must be.
Kish
Destil
Indeed it is possible that there do exist some of Troile's line in
the True Brujah, but if they do each of them has an inbred Dark Secret.
Chances are those of Troile's line who did not stand with him after the
deed were likely taken in, or used by, those not of Troile. However,
when considering vampiric nature, who would a vampire be more likely to
follow, the guy who bested his, assumed, better, or the group that
couldn't stop it from happening? I'd bet that all Troile's childer
(with the exception of maybe one, nah) decided it safest, at least in
appearance, to back their Sire's action. If they did son then the other
Brujah (now known as True) would shun them altogether.
Wild Druid
and Viscituded a Cappy a lot made him something really strange, and kept him
around.
Just a thought
The Druid
The Druid
Wild Druid
diablerized their elder. Giovanni were a bloodline at most so he would have
always been giovanni unless embraced by a lower gen Cappadocian just happened
to be related to the Giovanni than he would be a Cap, in other words a Caps a
Cap just like all other clans unless they go through a reembrace like the
Baali. Id suggest your poor unfortunate Cap end up just like the Salubri, very
hunted.
The Druid
Kintaro Oe
>those Troile Embraced before diablerizing his sire? Why aren't they among
>the True Brujah? The Salubri are not descended from Tremere and thus not
>relevant here.
oh, I see, so you mean that when a vampire becomes a 3rd gen, then all
-his- descendents change.
I see now. An interesting idea, but I still don't really like it
myself, not at all.
>>also look in the Giovanni Clanbook at the Primascines (or something).
>>They are technically Cappadocians, but they are loyal to the Giovanni.
>The description of them doesn't say whether they have Cappadocian clan
>Disciplines and weakness or Giovanni ones, although the narrator talks about
>how impressive their *Necromancy* must be.
it mentions that they -are- Cappadocians, actually.
kabael
my sig will slowly regenerate... give it time...
http://members.xoom.com/McGuffins/
Jonathan Rowe
writes
>>The True Brujah..specifically those not descended from Troile. What about
>>those Troile Embraced before diablerizing his sire? Why aren't they among
>>the True Brujah? The Salubri are not descended from Tremere and thus not
>>relevant here.
>
>oh, I see, so you mean that when a vampire becomes a 3rd gen, then all
>-his- descendents change.
>I see now. An interesting idea, but I still don't really like it
>myself, not at all
I can see something in it. I think there ought to be pretty profound
mystic shockwaves from the destruction (never mind diablerie) of an
Antediluvian. I suspect there is a sympathetic connection between a
Founder and all those who bear her Vitae and share her Disciplines. It
might be nothing you could express in strict rules form, but when
Augustus diablerised Cappadocius, then it seems pretty understandable
that the Mortis Discipline would, over the following centuries, dwindle
and fade.
--
Jon Rowe
The Livewire
Jonathan Rowe wrote in message ...
>I can see something in it. I think there ought to be pretty profound
>mystic shockwaves from the destruction (never mind diablerie) of an
>Antediluvian. I suspect there is a sympathetic connection between a
>Founder and all those who bear her Vitae and share her Disciplines. It
>might be nothing you could express in strict rules form, but when
>Augustus diablerised Cappadocius, then it seems pretty understandable
>that the Mortis Discipline would, over the following centuries, dwindle
>and fade.
Just out of curriosity, Jon, what effect did all the 2nd gen getting killed
do to their childer, under your explaniation above?
For that matter, what about if Caine got axed/slurped?
--
>Jon Rowe
The Livewire
Jonathan Rowe
<The_Li...@bigfoot.com> writes
>>I can see something in it. I think there ought to be pretty profound
>>mystic shockwaves from the destruction (never mind diablerie) of an
>>Antediluvian. I suspect there is a sympathetic connection between a
>>Founder and all those who bear her Vitae and share her Disciplines. It
>>might be nothing you could express in strict rules form, but when
>>Augustus diablerised Cappadocius, then it seems pretty understandable
>>that the Mortis Discipline would, over the following centuries, dwindle
>>and fade.
>
>
>Just out of curriosity, Jon, what effect did all the 2nd gen getting killed
>do to their childer, under your explaniation above?
Who can say? The issue is then, what might the Kindred be like if the
2nd Generation still existed?
But then again, the V:tM rulebook mentions somewhere about the 3rd
Generation being the last vampires with the power of life-in-death or
something, something about how there's a qualitative as well as
quantitative chasm between the 3rd Generation and the Clans they
founded.
>
>For that matter, what about if Caine got axed/slurped?
Maybe something heinous would ensue. Perhaps that's the proof he's not
(Finally) Dead.
--
Jon Rowe
W.F. van Maanen
> >Just out of curriosity, Jon, what effect did all the 2nd gen getting killed
> >do to their childer, under your explaniation above?
>
> Who can say? The issue is then, what might the Kindred be like if the
> 2nd Generation still existed?
>
> But then again, the V:tM rulebook mentions somewhere about the 3rd
> Generation being the last vampires with the power of life-in-death or
> something, something about how there's a qualitative as well as
> quantitative chasm between the 3rd Generation and the Clans they
> founded.
> >
<snip>
> Jon Rowe
Just a question that occured to me, if the 3rd gen vamps have power over
life-in-death, then so would the second gens, thus maybe the three
childer of Caine also live to this very night. Scary thought neh?
Brandon Quina
> Who can say? The issue is then, what might the Kindred be like if the
> 2nd Generation still existed?
Hmmm. Also, remember, the Third Generation were the first vampires to
belong to the clans. Maybe that was *because* they killed the Second
Generation and that had a strong impact on their blood and the blood of
all vampires further down the chain of blood. Creating "static"
bloodlines, clan disciplines, and in effect both weaker and stronger
ties of blood. It lends some credence to the caitiff from the Guide to
Pariahs. "Clan Caine" indeed.
Brandon,
Destil
Now if Caine was to become diablerized you could rule two ways. First that the world ends. Second, because Caine's blood is so powerful, it actually takes over he who sucked the soul. In other words the Diablerist literally becomes Caine, forgetting who he had been and perhaps even changing physical shape.
However it is a mute point, as any ST that actually puts Caine into his game would have to be the twinkiest I've met, let alone that any PC could destroy him. Remember he has ALL the disciplines, even some no one has heard about.
Brandon Quina
> that the world ends. Second, because Caine's blood is so powerful, it
> actually takes over he who sucked the soul. In other words the
> Diablerist literally becomes Caine, forgetting who he had been and
> perhaps even changing physical shape.
In my mind, you just *can't* diablerize Caine. He will *never* die.
He'll, one day, be swimming around in the sun whenever it becomes a red
giant and completly destroys the planet.
As for the whole "becoming Caine when you diablerize him", I have that
happen when you diablerize an antideluvian, much less Caine himself.
Yeppers, that means Gratiano is actually a husk in which Lasombra is
taking a dirt-nap, at least in my game. ;0)
> However it is a mute point, as any ST that actually puts Caine
> into his game would have to be the twinkiest I've met, let alone that
> any PC could destroy him. Remember he has ALL the disciplines, even
> some no one has heard about.
What is wrong with putting Caine in the game? I've never done it, mind
you, but I don't see anything wrong with giving him a Cameo
appearance...
Brandon,
Wild Druid
How do we know he hasnt already been axed/slurped? Maybe its already happened,
maybe Caine willingly went beyond, when did he dissapear? Because maybe Caine
is Charon, it is kind of a silly idea but hey what the heck it could happen.
The Druid
Soonmot
>you, but I don't see anything wrong with giving him a Cameo
>appearance...
i put caine into a personal SL for my character... at least Mot belived the
vampire to be caine.
---Mike
JUPITER THUNDER DRAGON
CRAAAAAASH!!!
members.aol.com/soonmot/main.html
ICQ: 31886917
"do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"
"I don't know where you pixies came from, but i sure like your magic pixie
juice!"
--Barney, The Simsons