MALKAVIANS AND FAERIES
Mathley
I'm new here, and i'm from italy.
I play both vampire and changeling
reading the clanbook of malkavian i've read about some
"links" with changeling and Dreamland:
Secrets of the Malkavians - Disciplines - pag.28
Visit Faerieland: Level Seven Obfuscate Discipline
"The Malkavian can utterly disappear from the area and
appear in Faerieland. From Faerieland, she can go anywhere
on Earth she wishes to go. But, first, she has to pass the
Faerie Keepers, who dislike capricious use of their land.
They question the Malkavian about her purpose, and if they
don't like her story, they push her back into the world she
left, near the time she left it. The keepers are willing to
listen to bargains, especially if the Malkavian will Prank
the entiry of the Keepers' choice."
Attitudes: Malkavians and the World - Faeries - pag. 33
"Our best pals, on the nights they're speaking to us. Get to
know them better."
Chapter Fore!!!: Malkavian Templates
The Walking Dreamer - pag. 44
"Concept: You are a living sleepwalker. Your perceptions are
of the dream world and the waking world at the same time,
superimposed over the other. You have goals you want to
accomplish, but getting there is difficult. You want to
malke everything good and to soothe pain and hurt. You can
see things n the dream world to help you at this, like
people's dreams and fears and hates. ..."
Malk Content - pag. 64
"Malk Content is a trickster of unknown origin. He has woven
a hundred tales of his origin and has claimed to be a Native
American shaman, a Mongol warrior, a Babylonian King, the
son of Aeneas, a Persian prince, an alien, a ruler of the
Seelie Court of the Faeries; the son of God, and Malkav
himself..."
do u have some other information?
Please is very important.
Thank for all.
Stephenls
This was all pretty much been cancelled. The "faeries" quote from the
Revised Malkavian Clanbook is "Gone. And we cannot, could never
follow."
Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly known
as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
really a steriotype at all, actually).
--
Stephenls
Geek
"Online communication is a fragile thing. It's also phenomenological.
There is no existence beyond what we read. If you present the persona of
a humorless twit, then you are one, as far as the net is concerned."
--Bruce Baugh
"There is of course a tendency among some fans to assume that WW makes
errors in their products, and then tries to cover them up by saying
they meant to do that. I suppose that's easier to believe then that
WW could make a game element that they dislike. Which is mainly a
problem if one attaches some sort of pseudo-religous significance to
canon."
--Eric Tolle
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version 3.12
GU d- s+:--- a17 C++ U? P? L? E? W+ N++ o? K w
O- M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP? t+ 5 X+ R++ tv b+++ DI++++ D++
G e- h! !r y(**)
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Kish
Stephenls wrote in message <397D5AB4...@dccnet.com>...
>Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly
known
>as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
>pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
>really a steriotype at all, actually).
>
How not a stereotype?
--
Kish
ICQ#: 28085879
AIM: Kish K M
Kis...@mindspring.replacewithcom
Ethan Skemp
In article <8lk4di$t2p$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>, "Kish"
<Kis...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Stephenls wrote in message <397D5AB4...@dccnet.com>...
>
>>Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly
> known
>>as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
>>pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
>>really a steriotype at all, actually).
I would imagine that he means that pitiful, horrible, frightening and
inscrutable are *four* stereotypes -- which kind of breaks down the point of
stereotyping in the first place. (I'd also add "disturbing," "alien,"
"insightful," "victimized," "dangerous" and "deceptive" to the list. As you
can see, it becomes hard for any one Malkavian to live up to *all* these
buzzwords -- hence, variety over stereotypes.)
For the record, I think it's important to note that the first Malkavian
Clanbook was written *before* Changeling was even in the brainstorming
stage. The original authors had nothing to work with as far as what "Faerie"
really *was* in the World of Darkness. Changeling is a good and fine game,
but it's just not thematically compatible with a bloodline of incurably
insane vampires.
--
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Silverfeet
comfy link between Malkavians and Changelings that not even the half-fae
Kiasyd were allowed to have?
Oh THANK YOU!!
That was one of my two pet hates about Malkavians. Now can we have
Changeling updated to scrub the relationship once and for all. Pretty
please?
Silverfeet
*runs off to buy Clanbook Malkavian at last*
"Ethan Skemp" <alpha...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:4jhf5.1531$_K3.1...@newshog.newsread.com...
BA
From the current revised Malkavian Clanbook, page 51:
"Faeries: Gone. And we cannot, could never follow."
Any apparent connection between Malkavians and faeries is the result of
individual delusions. (The Changeling and Vampire developers decided several
years ago that Visit Faerieland did not send Malkavians to Arcadia or the
Dreaming.)
"Malk Content" is a name sometimes used for Nissiku the Clever Prince, one of
Malkav's earliest childer; an ancient Mesopotamian prince whose insanity was so
great that it's believed even Malkav turned his back on him.
On the otherhand, if you want there to be a connection between Malkavians and
Faeries, go for it. It's not like the Game Police are going to kick down your
door and arrest you for playing wrong.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them,
but more often they work in absolute darkness."
Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
Prodigal
"Stephenls" <step...@dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:397D5AB4...@dccnet.com...
>
> Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly known
> as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
> pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
> really a steriotype at all, actually).
It's less insulting to people who suffer from actual insanity, though.
Prodigal
Stephenls
I think that was one of the points of the exercise.
sjwt
>
>
> Thank for all.
The only thing i can add to that is this from the
Changeling book 2nd ed page 273.
under the section Crossover potentials:
"A lonly Malkavian succeeds in passing herself off as a changling -
at lest for the time - and erns the trust of a wilder clique.
What happens when her ruse is discoverd? will she still be accepted by her
frineds?"
Now this sems to sugest that a Malk can pass his/her self off as a
changleing
wich in its self is intrestign.. anyone kwon to what extent as i dont have
the Vamp books.
Ethan Skemp
In article <8lkvpe$f1d$1...@uranium.btinternet.com>, "Silverfeet"
<Silve...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> You mean to tell me that Revised Clanbook Malkavian has destroyed that cosy,
> comfy link between Malkavians and Changelings that not even the half-fae
> Kiasyd were allowed to have?
Actually, the main point of the revised Clanbook was to get rid of
*anything* "cosy" or "comfy." Playing a vampire, particularly a Malkavian,
you should never feel "safe" -- there should always be the possibility that
something you can't control, *something that might even be inside your
head,* might rob you of control over yourself and potentially even destroy
you. Your destiny is *not* under your complete control. It could all get
taken away from you at any point.
A player with a Malkavian character -- hell, *any* vampire character --
should never feel as if his character is truly safe. Never.
Of course, that *is* just my opinion...
--
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Silverfeet
problem *grin*
"Ethan Skemp" <alpha...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:GPCf5.10248$I76.6...@monger.newsread.com...
Tom Knight
>
> Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly known
> as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
> pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
> really a steriotype at all, actually).
_Fish_Malks? Why?
--
"For more mischief has probably been wrought in the world by honest fools in
high places than by intelligent rascals" - J G Frazer
- An Infinite Number Of Monkeys
Cyberpunk: Putting the funk into dysfunctional
"Little baby Jesus on a snowboard, Dex! Do you know what time it is?"
-Finnegan Sinister, Sinister/Dexter
Ben Gaines
Tom Knight wrote:
> >
> > Whitewolf is trying to get rid of the "silly Malkavian" (commonly known
> > as FishMalks) steriotype and replace it with the
> > pitiful/horrible/frightning/inscruciable Malkavian "steriotype" (not
> > really a steriotype at all, actually).
>
> _Fish_Malks? Why?
As the story goes, someone was deciding on the best official malkavian
bumper sticker. One person said "How about, 'My Other Car is a Boat'", then the
other said "How about, 'My Other Car is a Fish." Then one said "Naw, I hate
those kind of malks." The idea being the difference between surreal (boat) and
silly. (fish) I think the point of the Malkavians is to see the world through a
broken lens, to have the world relative in a new way, to tear down logic and
rebuild it so the pieces don't fit the same, not to act like a Pooka or use your
insanity as an excuse to metagame.
"A little Nonsense, now and then, is realished by the wisest men."
-Willy Wonka
Alik Widge
<397F79C3...@mtdata.com>:
>Tom Knight wrote:
>> >
>> _Fish_Malks? Why?
>
> As the story goes, someone was deciding on the best official
> malkavian
Where in the name of Caine did you hear *that*? That's not how it was at
all, and I should know, 'cause I was there when we came up with the name.
It's meant to refer to those Malkavians whose idea of prankery is running
up to the Prince and hitting him with a fish. (Yes, there is at least some
relation to the then-much-abused mIRC command.)
Personally, the new Clanbook is nice, but I have no intention of abandoning
the old one just 'cause it's been supplemented. (Yes, I see them as
reconcilable. Perhaps this means I'm the one who's gone nuts.) I *like* the
"breaking the rules" concept, dammit.
Alik
Christina Waldeck
Honestly, I wonder what the writer who penned those three sentences was
thinking.
the changeling books, both 1st and 2nd Ed, state very clearly that all
Changelings can see each other's fae miens very clearly, so they can
easily discern who is fae and who is not.
The only exceptions might be Dauntain Changelings with almost faded fae
miens (i.e. The Lost, or Typhoids; as the Malk is undead, he might put
out "vibes" similar to the Typhoid Dauntains, but no Changeling in his
sane mind would willingly go near them) or those Changelings who have
temporarily succumbed to the Mists of Forgetfulness.
But then, the Malk can't actively pretend to be a Changeling AND be
mistaken for one of the Faded, because, well, those Changelings *don't*
know what the are at the moment.
The Malk might try to change his aura with highlevel Obfuscate (but then
a Fae Mien is not like an Aura), or use Chimeristry (provided he has it)
to fake a Fae Mien... but that would need a massively high level of
Faerie Lore skill first. And remember, the Fae can see Fae Miens, but
the Malk can't. (No, you can't see Fae Miens by using Auspex 2 or, as a
mage, Spirit Sphere, or a Garou's Scent of True Form... all you get it
the info "this guy/gal in front of me is somehow weird/fey/surrounded by
strange colors and seems to be someone else than what i see - but the
actual appearance of the fae mien is visible only to the Changlelings,
unless the Malk once saw a Changeling use the Wyrd and appear in Fae
Mien in the real world...but how likely is that?) So the Malk won't know
what the fake illusional Fae Mien would have to look like and could only
"copy" one from fairy tales or Fantasy art covers etc...
C.
JimTheta
> Honestly, I wonder what the writer who penned those three sentences was
> thinking.
> the changeling books, both 1st and 2nd Ed, state very clearly that all
> Changelings can see each other's fae miens very clearly, so they can
> easily discern who is fae and who is not.
You haven't yet read one of Ethan Skemp's posts elsewhere in this
thread.
He says:
"For the record, I think it's important to note that the first Malkavian
Clanbook was written *before* Changeling was even in the brainstorming
stage. The original authors had nothing to work with as far as what
"Faerie"
really *was* in the World of Darkness. Changeling is a good and fine
game,
but it's just not thematically compatible with a bloodline of incurably
insane vampires."
-JimTheta
http://www.msu.edu/~birchm20
Mathley
Silverfeet <Silve...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
8lkvpe$f1d$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
> You mean to tell me that Revised Clanbook Malkavian has
destroyed >that cosy, comfy link between Malkavians and
Changelings that not >even the half-fae Kiasyd were allowed
to have?
>
I've just reported what whitewolf wrote on the "Clanbook:
Malkavian" (the first edition), i'm waiting for the new one.
> That was one of my two pet hates about Malkavians. Now can
we >have Changeling updated to scrub the relationship once
and for all. >Pretty please?
In The Changeling Book for Storyteller we don't have found
anything about this relationship...
>
> Silverfeet
>
> *runs off to buy Clanbook Malkavian at last*
why?
Christina Waldeck
Yes, but the plot idea about the Malk posing as a Changleling appears to
come from the Changeling 2nd Edition (!) main rulebook....
Christina Waldeck
Hm I only got the Changeling 2nd Ed last week (finally! *gasp*) so I
have to have a more thorough look in it when i find the time.
I merely wanted to say that the original poster who brought that
Malk-among-fae thing up stated it was to be found in Changleing 2nd Ed
*shrug*.
I hope he was mistaken.
Eric Tolle
>
> Yes, but the plot idea about the Malk posing as a Changleling appears to
> come from the Changeling 2nd Edition (!) main rulebook....
Hey, are _you_ going to tell him he's not one?
"Whaddiya mean I'm not a Changeling? _Go screw yourself with a
Chainsaw_."
"Yes...must...find...chainsaw..."
--
Eric Tolle sch...@silcom.com
People tend to underestimate the impact of scientific progress.
Why just fifty years ago, only a few people had even heard of DNA,
and now everybody who is somebody uses it!
Scott Staten
Nope, but in Dreams and Nightmares, we learn even Changelings
cannot enter arcadia, because they posess Banality. That NOTHING
with Banality can. I'd say that includes Malks.
--
Scott
ICQ 6561915
sst...@erols.com
http://www.dragonmage.net/~scott/
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/sstaten/sstaten.html
NE:CiF Historical MUSH - netr.betterbox.net 6999
- http://netr.betterbox.net/
We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams.
- Willy Wonka
JimTheta
> I hope he was mistaken.
As I own a spitload of Changeling stuff, I'm pretty sure, if I remember
correctly, that he's not mistaken. Unfortunately.
-JimTheta
http://www.msu.edu/~birchm20
sjwt
> cannot enter arcadia, because they posess Banality. That NOTHING
> with Banality can. I'd say that includes Malks.
Damm id been workign on my own ST idears..
to enter you had to ahve 10 Permint, 0 Temp Banality
10 Permint Glaomour and 10 Temp...
sjwt
I admit it, yes it is from 2nd Edition..
Page 273 Crossover Potentials..
says basicly a Malk can pass her self
off as a fae...'for the time being'
At somepoint there gona have to see the
malk feading or seomthign..
Tom Knight
I can't remember who, but someone came up with the idea of a prank as a
Malkavian language, a kind of attempt to explain something that they can't
really put into words.
Christina Waldeck
>
> Christina Waldeck wrote:
> >
> > Yes, but the plot idea about the Malk posing as a Changleling appears to
> > come from the Changeling 2nd Edition (!) main rulebook....
>
> Hey, are _you_ going to tell him he's not one?
>
> "Whaddiya mean I'm not a Changeling? _Go screw yourself with a
> Chainsaw_."
> "Yes...must...find...chainsaw..."
LOL
How about a Treasure chainsaw? Chimerical aspect a wicked chainsaw,
mundane aspect a candy paddle.
(Now, don't ask me where one would find a candy paddle... i imagine you
get two free when you buy the toffee boat.)
VvDukevV
lose the Obfuscate level 7 ability to enter arcadia named #Visit Fairyland# in
the revised Clan Book?
Just curious, and if you must know my Malkavian is Chris Farley <lol>. He never
died in Chicago....it was all a masq to cover for the fact that he was sired a
Malkavian!
"Power through freedom:
Caine said, a life without power will not be worth living.
I will die then without my gifts for I will not live
as your Thrall."
JimTheta
> So my main question is <as i play a good malkavian in my own eyes> do the > Malks
> lose the Obfuscate level 7 ability to enter arcadia named #Visit Fairyland# in
> the revised Clan Book?
Well, again I'll mention that Arcadia is only a very small part of the
Dreaming. Changelings have little problem getting into the Dreaming,
but even they can't enter Arcadia.
What I'm getting at is that the Malk power could just let him enter the
Dreaming, and not Arcadia.
Of course, if you're not playing a crossover game, then who gives a
rip? In a solely Vampire game, then you can make the power however you
want it.
-JimTheta
http://www.msu.edu/~birchm20
Chris Chappy
>What I'm getting at is that the Malk power could just let him enter the
>Dreaming, and not Arcadia.
>
>Of course, if you're not playing a crossover game, then who gives a
>rip? In a solely Vampire game, then you can make the power however you
>want it.
>
I think that I'll do that thanks, rarely do we crossover so the effects wouldnt
matter. Just that sometimes I like to keep as close to what WW publishes that I
can.
Brendan T. Moran
Alik Widge wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2000, bo...@mtdata.com (Ben Gaines) wrote in
> <397F79C3...@mtdata.com>:
>
> >Tom Knight wrote:
> >> >
> >> _Fish_Malks? Why?
> >
> > As the story goes, someone was deciding on the best official
> > malkavian
>
> Where in the name of Caine did you hear *that*? That's not how it was at
> all, and I should know, 'cause I was there when we came up with the name.
> It's meant to refer to those Malkavians whose idea of prankery is running
> up to the Prince and hitting him with a fish. (Yes, there is at least some
> relation to the then-much-abused mIRC command.)
Funny, I heard it came from the picture on p 206 of Vampire: The Dark Ages.
brendan
Alik Widge
<39899597...@san.rr.com>:
>Funny, I heard it came from the picture on p 206 of Vampire: The Dark
>Ages.
Not likely; the term was in use before V:tDA.
Alik
Im Sad Mommy
kidnapped mortal children and brought them into Arcadia. After the doors
to Arcadia were closed, I'm sure a few mortals stll lived within. I
think that the often rumored war within Arcadia may have been over the
mortals and the banality they brought with them. So I don't think entry
into Arcadia has anything to do with banality. I think it has everything
to do with the Wyld. The best place Arcadia could safely dwell would be
within the Shenti of Chaos(mentioned in Mage the Ascension). In that
case, Marauders, Nuwisha and the occasional Malk could have access to
it.
JimTheta
umbra stuff is discussed, and I'm pretty sure that the umbra the mages
are familiar with is a different realm than the Dreaming (which is
different from the Werewolf one, etc...). I don't, however, feel like
looking it up.
Sure, anyone can go into the Dreaming if they have the means. The
Dreaming is more antagonistic to those with a high banality (ie chimera
antagonize you, the environment just won't accomodate you, etc.),
however, and the Dreaming can also erode banality.
Either way, there have been rumors of mortals entering Arcadia, but
nothing that can be accepted as fact, as it was a hell of a long time
ago, before banality hit the world hard like it has now.
Since it has been mentioned multiple times in various sourcebooks, we
know that Changelings with any banality at all cannot enter Arcadia.
Due to this, I would deny a Malk entrance no matter what he does. With
the discipline in question, however, I would let him enter the Dreaming.
Looking at the discipline in question (I have it right here), it makes
no mention of Changelings. It only mentions "Faerieland". The C:tD
setting also has nothing analogous to the "Faerie Keepers" mentioned.
Honestly, who the hell knows what Faerieland is? I doubt the Malks do.
It could be a realm entirely existing due to the Malk's funky mind shit
(a temporary private umbra, if you will). It could be a part of the
umbra no one else can even access. I'd probably play it as having
nothing to do with real Faeries or Changelings at all! Just a loony
vision accompanied by an unexplained teleportation.
-JimTheta
http://www.msu.edu/~birchm20