Vicissitude for dummies
Fredrik Nilsson
time.
Basics
-------
1. What is the general view on Vicissitude in the revised edition,
a tool of the Soul-eaters or a discipline so strange that it makes
its users more or less deranged?
2. Are the alterations, by for exemple flesh-crafting, done like a
form of surgery or does they instantly occur like a form of magic?
( How is it done on the wielder? )
Malleable Visage
-----------------
Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
Fleshcraft
----------
1. Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
2. Does this level of the discipline raise Fortitude?
3. Can this level of the discipline raise Potence?
Fredrik Nilsson
Fredrik Nilsson <a.fredri...@swipnet.se> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:84i7lh$p6h1$1...@fu-berlin.de...
Biothaumaturgical Exprimentation (BE)
---------------------------------------
1. Does someone besides me feel like this is Vicissitude without
the Soul-eater infection?
2. Can BE 2 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for animals?
3. Can BE 4 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for humans?
4. This level REALLY puzzles me. Will it give the wielder
the power to change the vampires diet ( food instead of blood )
and habitat ( sunlight instead of moonlight ) ?
Brandon L. Quina
> Basics
> -------
>
> 1. What is the general view on Vicissitude in the revised edition,
> a tool of the Soul-eaters or a discipline so strange that it makes
> its users more or less deranged?
Neither. Souleatters are pretty much officially gotten rid of as a
serious part of the game. The "you get more insane as you use the
discipline" is a completely /optional/ system presented in a
non-essential (though highly useful) book dealing with the Sabbat.
> 2. Are the alterations, by for exemple flesh-crafting, done like a
> form of surgery or does they instantly occur like a form of magic?
> ( How is it done on the wielder? )
Again, neither. It's something of a mixture of the two. It's not
surgery -- no tools are required. It's not magic -- effort and
direction is required.. It's like surgical magic.. You /magically/
gain the ability to shape flesh, but you still have to touch the flesh
and shape it in the ways that you wish it to be shaped -- a /skill/ that
has to be learned, and that some people are repeatably and demonstrably
better at than others.
> Malleable Visage
> -----------------
>
> Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
No.
> Fleshcraft
> ----------
>
> 1. Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
No.
> 2. Does this level of the discipline raise Fortitude?
No.
> 3. Can this level of the discipline raise Potence?
No.
Brandon,
Brandon L. Quina
> Biothaumaturgical Exprimentation (BE)
> ---------------------------------------
Until this shows up in print with a VRev book, I'll assume that it's
been reconned out of existence and no longer exists...
> 1. Does someone besides me feel like this is Vicissitude without
> the Soul-eater infection?
No. It's a nonexistent Thaumaturgy path. ;)
> 2. Can BE 2 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for animals?
No, since it doesn't exist.
> 3. Can BE 4 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for humans?
No, again, as it doesn't exist...
> 4. This level REALLY puzzles me. Will it give the wielder
> the power to change the vampires diet ( food instead of blood )
> and habitat ( sunlight instead of moonlight ) ?
None of the above, because it doesn't exist.
Brandon,
James Kiley
>1. What is the general view on Vicissitude in the revised edition,
> a tool of the Soul-eaters or a discipline so strange that it makes
> its users more or less deranged?
At worst, it's a strange discipline that makes the user realize
just how temporary and meaningless flesh really is. Per the VSTH,
the Souleater conspiracy theory has been revealed to have been
just the wacko theory of the Black Hand's lunatic fringe.
>2. Are the alterations, by for exemple flesh-crafting, done like a
> form of surgery or does they instantly occur like a form of magic?
> ( How is it done on the wielder? )
I have always understood that it's much more like surgery.
>Malleable Visage
>Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
Not in my game. It's not explicitly stated, canonically.
>Fleshcraft
>1. Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
Again, not in my game.
>2. Does this level of the discipline raise Fortitude?
>3. Can this level of the discipline raise Potence?
I really don't think so. Certainly not, in my game.
jk
BA
>> form of surgery or does they instantly occur like a form of magic?
>> ( How is it done on the wielder? )
>
>I have always understood that it's much more like surgery.
Using Vicissitude requires flesh-to-flesh contact, and the user must often
physically sculpt the target/victim into what the Tzimisce wants.
Those Fiends with an understanding of modern medicine and anatomy undoubtably
aproach it more as surgery. Others see it as art, or even perhaps some twisted
form of structural engineering. I find that for Tzimisce character, figuring
out how they approach Vicissitude helps flesh out the character (npi).
>>Malleable Visage
>>Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
Yes. But its damn hard.
"Increasing one's appearance Trait is diff 10, thus requiring Willpower
expenditure for even minimal success, and a botch permanently reduces the
Attribute by one."
>>Fleshcraft
>>1. Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
"A vampire who wishes to increase another's Appearance Trait does so as
described under Malleable Visage..."
>>2. Does this level of the discipline raise Fortitude?
>>3. Can this level of the discipline raise Potence?
No, absolutely not. Those are mystical powers granted by the Blood of Caine and
have nothing to do with one's physical form or anatomy.
You /can/ use Fleshcraft to increase a subject's soak dice pool (+1 for each
success on a Dex+Body Crafts role; diff 8; but each +1 comes at the expense of
one of the subject's Strength or Health Level traits, which ever the
Viscessitude user picks)
It's possable that one could use Fleshcraft and Bonecraft to increase a
subject's Strength, Stamina, and perhaps even Dexterity traits using the same
rules for Appearance increasing. Str and Sta might be a little easier (diff 8
maybe). Int+Medicine rolls would likely be needed to figure out what to do in
that case.
If you want to get really horific, try using the Vicissitude 6 power from V:DA
(in the Companion, IIRC) that allows one to attach dead flesh to living. Strip
corpses of their muscle and bone tissue then fuse it to your war ghouls.
"...there are evil men in the world, truly evil men. Sometimes we hear of them,
but more often they work in absolute darkness."
Stephen King, _'Salem's Lot_
Brandon L. Quina
> "Increasing one's appearance Trait is diff 10, thus requiring Willpower
> expenditure for even minimal success, and a botch permanently reduces
> the Attribute by one."
Yeah, but he was talking about /past the trait limit/. I.e., could you
give a 13th generation Toreador or a mortal an appearance of six or
seven? 10?
No.
:0)
--
Brandon L. Quina (Storyteller; Dalton by Night PBEM)
#WoD-Chat on DALnet; (splitrock.tx.us.dal.net; hebron.in.us.dal.net)
"World of Darkness Discussion and Friendly Chat with Fans"
BA
jbu...@my-deja.com
"Brandon L. Quina" <bran...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Fredrik Nilsson wrote:
> > Biothaumaturgical Exprimentation (BE)
> > ---------------------------------------
>
> Until this shows up in print with a VRev book, I'll assume that it's
> been reconned out of existence and no longer exists...
It has. GttC.
>
> > 1. Does someone besides me feel like this is Vicissitude without
> > the Soul-eater infection?
>
> No. It's a nonexistent Thaumaturgy path. ;)
>
> > 2. Can BE 2 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for animals?
>
> No, since it doesn't exist.
>
> > 3. Can BE 4 be seen as Vicissitude 1-3 for humans?
>
> No, again, as it doesn't exist...
>
> > 4. This level REALLY puzzles me. Will it give the wielder
> > the power to change the vampires diet ( food instead of blood )
> > and habitat ( sunlight instead of moonlight ) ?
>
> None of the above, because it doesn't exist.
>
> Brandon,
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brandon L. Quina
> > Until this shows up in print with a VRev book, I'll assume that
> > it's been reconned out of existence and no longer exists...
>
> It has. GttC.
In print, not referenced too. ;) As in a new heavily changed and
adjusted version of the path.
Sailor Star Kitsune
> a tool of the Soul-eaters or a discipline so strange that it makes
> its users more or less deranged?
>
In Revised edition it is just like any other discipline unless you use the
rules presented in the Guide to the Sabbat which give possible derangements for
it.
>2. Are the alterations, by for exemple flesh-crafting, done like a
> form of surgery or does they instantly occur like a form of magic?
> ( How is it done on the wielder? )
The wielder must touch his patient/victim to do this. He must mold it. However
there is always personal style (some may prefer to do it like a surgeon others
like a sculptor)
>Malleable Visage
>-----------------
>
>Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
If you mean beyond the limit for the generation then no.
>Fleshcraft
>----------
>
>1. Can Apperance be increased beyond trait limits?
>
Again no
>2. Does this level of the discipline raise Fortitude?
>
No but you could improve soak dice.
>3. Can this level of the discipline raise Potence?
>
No but you can increase strength and stamina
Sailor Star Kitsune
A witches advice: Practice safe hex.
"Everybody is a book of blood;
Wherever we're opened,
We're red."--Clive Barker
The lie and the truth are both in me. -Lyric from Sabre Marionet J
http://members.aol.com/WildDruid/main.html
Raymond Copping
It says that Vicissitude can't "heal" the Nosferatu curse, but can it
remove Gangrel animal features? The chances are no but i'm not sure so can
anyone out there help?
Dr Nuncheon
Sure, it can remove animal features - at least, as far as I know. But
there are a couple of key things
it *won't* do:
* It won't restore any social trait levels lost due to animal features
(except App at the standard diff 10)
* It won't prevent you from getting any new animal features
These make a big difference in why vicc'ing away animal features is not
nearly as unbalancing as vicc'ing away the Nossie ugliness.
J
--
"Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com
John Middleton
Tzimisce because only they, with their mastery of viccisistude can remove
the effects of the curse from the sewer rats.
Or was that more "In character" blustering?
John
Dr Nuncheon <je...@fnord.io.com> wrote in message
news:84qkrn$lsp$1...@hiram.io.com...
Kish
John Middleton wrote in message <84r7n9$961$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>The Tzimisce clanbook brags about how the Nosferatu will gladly bow to the
>Tzimisce because only they, with their mastery of viccisistude can remove
>the effects of the curse from the sewer rats.
>Or was that more "In character" blustering?
>
Edition Vicissitude can't.
Kish
ICQ#: 28085879
AIM: Kish K M
Kis...@mindspring.com
jbu...@my-deja.com
"John Middleton" <horro...@morka.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> The Tzimisce clanbook brags about how the Nosferatu will gladly bow to the
> Tzimisce because only they, with their mastery of viccisistude can remove
> the effects of the curse from the sewer rats.
> Or was that more "In character" blustering?
It was true in second edition.
>
> John
>
> Dr Nuncheon <je...@fnord.io.com> wrote in message
> news:84qkrn$lsp$1...@hiram.io.com...
> > In article <9tfb4.1217$FY3....@ozemail.com.au>,
> > Raymond Copping <mik...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> > >Hi, i have a question about Vicissitude too.
> > > It says that Vicissitude can't "heal" the Nosferatu curse, but can it
> > >remove Gangrel animal features? The chances are no but i'm not sure so
> can
> > >anyone out there help?
> >
> > Sure, it can remove animal features - at least, as far as I know. But
> > there are a couple of key things
> > it *won't* do:
> >
> > * It won't restore any social trait levels lost due to animal features
> > (except App at the standard diff 10)
> >
> > * It won't prevent you from getting any new animal features
> >
> > These make a big difference in why vicc'ing away animal features is not
> > nearly as unbalancing as vicc'ing away the Nossie ugliness.
> >
> >
> >
> > J
> >
> > --
> > "Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
> > yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com
>
>
Angela Christine
>* It won't restore any social trait levels lost due to animal features
> (except App at the standard diff 10)
>* It won't prevent you from getting any new animal features
>These make a big difference in why vicc'ing away animal features is not
>nearly as unbalancing as vicc'ing away the Nossie ugliness.
That depends on how you think getting beaten with an ugly stick works.
If you make the Nossie curse dynamic, it wouldn't be unbalancing for
vicc to work.
From V2, "Over a period of weeks, they slowly shift from their mortal
countenances to their Nosferatu visages." It doesn't take much tweaking
to make that the Nossie weakeness is dynamic like the Gangrel one.
Perhaps they are _constantly_ shifting slightly, but once you get to
Apperance 0 it just isn't noticeable. Or perhaps each has a specific
ugly face that they "evolve" into, a portrait of inner ugliness that is
displayed on thier faces. So If they get vicced into pretty boys it
works, but the degeneration begins immediatly and continues until they
reach their regular ugliness a couple weeks later.
Just a thought,
Angela Christine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~aca(at)telus.net~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry if this is a duplicate message,
I'm having some Y2K related oddness.
Trav
effects would fade,such is their curse,of course this would make the
noss almost immune to thier powers,(they can't be twisted anymore than
they are!)So the powers effect will govern the nosses attude towards
the Tzmizce.
Dark ages states that the effects of the 1st level can be reversed by
spending a blood point.(How a vampire flesh shaping art can be healed
by spending a blood point is beyond me)
Therefore I must concure that they must have DE powered it,to stop
power gaming and general story line screw-ups.
Like curing all the Noss'es.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Richard Mayer
news:387316df...@news.telus.net...
> That depends on how you think getting beaten with an ugly stick works.
> If you make the Nossie curse dynamic, it wouldn't be unbalancing for
> vicc to work.
>
> From V2, "Over a period of weeks, they slowly shift from their mortal
> countenances to their Nosferatu visages." It doesn't take much tweaking
> to make that the Nossie weakeness is dynamic like the Gangrel one.
> Perhaps they are _constantly_ shifting slightly, but once you get to
> Apperance 0 it just isn't noticeable. Or perhaps each has a specific
> ugly face that they "evolve" into, a portrait of inner ugliness that is
> displayed on thier faces. So If they get vicced into pretty boys it
> works, but the degeneration begins immediatly and continues until they
> reach their regular ugliness a couple weeks later.
Ah, I am happy to see someone else thinking along my lines :)
One of the first characters I ever reffed Vampire for was a Nosferatu, and
as he is still playing the same character nearly 10 years later I have had
the opportunity to decide how to handle the Nossies. I decided that his
appearance (the character, that is, not the player!) would degenerate with
time. As most every Nossie /has/ to develop Mask of a Thousand Faces, while
they don't have Auspex as a Clan discipline, it means that even from
themselves they hide a little of the horror of their visage. It came as a
shock to him to see a 300-year old Elder of the Clan unmasked completely: it
scared the bejeezus out of him. I don't go with the idea of rotting away,
instead a progressive build-up of bone and soft-tissue deformation and
atrophy. I even linked lineages together by giving them similar appearances
over time (the character comes from a lineage that has face that looks like
the flesh has melted, and has oversized lower fangs that grow larger and
sharper with age).
Oh, and to tie this back into Vicissitude. The situation hasn't arisen yet,
but I did decide that while Vic could do a fixing-job, the Curse of
Nosferatu means that it inevitably decays. And the more beautiful the looks
the faster it happens. Unpleasant for all and sundry.
RichM
Richard Mayer
news:03000ec8...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com...
> I agree,the Vicissitude would work on the gangrel and noss,but the
> effects would fade,such is their curse,of course this would make the
> noss almost immune to thier powers,(they can't be twisted anymore than
> they are!)So the powers effect will govern the nosses attude towards
> the Tzmizce.
Hmm... that's an interesting thought. It would also make the Nossies a
dangerous annoyance to the Tzimisce. I might have to adopt this idea.
> Dark ages states that the effects of the 1st level can be reversed by
> spending a blood point.(How a vampire flesh shaping art can be healed
> by spending a blood point is beyond me)
Simplest, but messiest way that occurs to me is: run your claws or a blade
through the afflicted flesh. If you can. Once you've cut yourself to
ribbons, once you heal, you'll heal back to your template (i.e. original)
form. Alternatively consider the effect 'damage' and it is healed. Or say
'to hell with it, I don't know why!'.
> Therefore I must concure that they must have DE powered it,to stop
> power gaming and general story line screw-ups.
> Like curing all the Noss'es.
If the Nossies want healing. Players might want a beautiful Nosferatu
character, but the Clan treats it as a badge of honour.
RichM
Kish
Richard Mayer wrote in message <84vndr$53u$2...@gxsn.com>...
>> Therefore I must concure that they must have DE powered it,to stop
>> power gaming and general story line screw-ups.
>> Like curing all the Noss'es.
>
>
>If the Nossies want healing. Players might want a beautiful Nosferatu
>character, but the Clan treats it as a badge of honour.
>
Tzimisce to make them more attractive are ostracized from the clan.
jbu...@my-deja.com
Trav <t_sampso...@free.net.au.invalid> wrote:
> I agree,the Vicissitude would work on the gangrel and noss,but the
> effects would fade,such is their curse,of course this would make the
> noss almost immune to thier powers,(they can't be twisted anymore than
> they are!)So the powers effect will govern the nosses attude towards
> the Tzmizce.
> spending a blood point.(How a vampire flesh shaping art can be healed
> by spending a blood point is beyond me)
It's considered aggravated damage. Hunter edges can also heal it, at a
higher difficulty.
> Therefore I must concure that they must have DE powered it,to stop
> power gaming and general story line screw-ups.
> Like curing all the Noss'es.
In V:tDA, any vampire could cure it like aggravated damage; in V:Rev,
only those of a lower generation than the Vicissitude user can.
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
>
Martin
> > effects would fade,such is their curse,of course this would make
the
> > noss almost immune to thier powers,(they can't be twisted anymore
than
> > they are!)So the powers effect will govern the nosses attude
towards
> > the Tzmizce.
>
a
> dangerous annoyance to the Tzimisce. I might have to adopt this
idea.
I've always kinda liked the idea that whomever they are fleashcrafted
into, the slowly devolve into the Nos version of that person over a
few weeks, so they'd not look like they used to, but a Nossie version
of that person.
Of course, that depends on how unrecognisable you consider a nos to
go. I've always worked on the principal that you could always tell who
they used to be, if you knew them.
Martin.
Joseph Duncan Carriker, Jr.
>'to hell with it, I don't know why!'.
Actually, you're right on the money there.
"Damage" is, effectively, a divergence from the "template" that a vampire
gains with the Embrace. This is why hair grows back to that length, wounds
return, etc, upon spending that blood point during the day -- blood fuels
the "upkeep" of the template.
There are just some changes (such as a sucking chest wound) that are
"further" from the template. :).
Joseph Carriker
oakt...@hotmail.com
ICQ 40818122
Oakthorne's World of Darkness
http://members.tripod.com/oakthorne/welcome.htm
Semper Somnus Wolf Pack Web Site
http://members.tripod.com/semper_somnus/index.htm
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