Revenant: The Evolution
Essex
What if Revenants could breed up to more powerful levels (We don't know
about it yet because the proper conditions haven't been met until now). ie.:
15th Gen. Vampire + Human = 15th Gen. Revenant (Standard Revenant)
15th Gen. Vampire + 15th Gen. Vampire = 14th Gen. Revenant
14th Gen. Revenant + 14th Gen. Revenant = 13th Gen. Revenant
13th Gen. Revenant + 13th Gen. Revenant = 12th Gen. Revenant
12th Gen. Revenant + 12th Gen. Revenant = 11th Gen. Revenant
11th Gen. Revenant + 11th Gen. Revenant = 10th Gen. Revenant
etc.
15th Gen. Revenants [Standard Revenant] have a condition similar to the
Infertile Vitae of a 15th Generation Vampire and can only, at best, sire
other 15th Gen. Revenants (using breeding techniques known to certain
factions within the Sabbat or by breeding with a Revenant of superior
Generation). Similarly, Revenants of any Generation breeding with a normal
human produce offspring as per existing trends noted by aforementioned
Sabbat members.
Revenants of varying Generation who breed together use the following chart:*
1). Revenants one Generation apart = Child is of same Generation as weaker
parent.
2). Revenants two or more Generations apart = Child is 1 Generation beyond
weaker parent.**
*note that 15th Generation Revenants breeding with Revenants of superior
Generation ONLY sire 15th Generation Revenants, as noted earlier.
**note that a large gulf between parent Generations may (at the
Storyteller's discretion) result in a child that is 2 or more Generations
beyond the weaker parent, in a manner similar to a Vampire Diablerizing an
elder several Generations lower than his own.
Max. Discipline Level = 2 less than a Vampire of equal Generation
(i.e. a 15th Generation Vampire has a Max. Discipline level of 3. A 15th
Generation Revenant [Standard Revenant] has a Max. Discipline level of 1,
barring being Ghouled by a powerful Vampire).
Blood Pool = Same as a Vampire of equal Generation.
Max. Blood Points Spent Per Round = Same as a Vampire of equal Generation.
Blood Points Recovered Each Day = Same as Max. Blood Points Spent Per Round.
Questions to ask:
Q). Can Revenants of 14th Generation or better initiate a Blood Bond?
A). Maybe.
Q). How are Revenants affected by the Domination Discipline?
A). A Revenant's Generation is equal to a Vampire's Generation for purposes
of overcoming the effects of Dominance.
Q). How do Revenants compare to Vampires of equal Generation?
A). They lack the innate toughness of vampires (as Revenants are alive),
have difficulty regenerating lost limbs and their maximum Discipline level
is two lower than a comparable Vampire, but they can walk around during the
day and they don't need to drink blood (although they have to wait days to
fully recharge whereas a Vampire could just grab somebody off the street and
get a refill).
Q). Are there Revenant Clans with Clan Disciplines?
A). Maybe. Although the capacity to breed with Revenants from outside your
"Clan" may interfere with this. If Clans do develop, I predict that
Revenants with a Clan Discipline of Fortitude will become quite common to
make up for their relative frailty. Potence is a likely candidate to become
a Clan Discipline as well.
Q). How fast do Revenants age?
A). 15th Generation Revenants age at the rate noted in previous Vampire
supplements (IIRC it is on the order of 100 years + 50 per point of
Stamina). I suggest that Revenants of superior Generation get an extra 50
years tacked onto the end of their lifespans for every additional level of
Generation they have beyond 15th (Their childhood doesn't get any longer,
but their time spent in old age does).
Q). What happens 300 years from now when Revenants with Methuselah level
power show up?
A). Who says that'll ever happen? There are plenty of factions within the
World of Darkness with a vested interest in making certain that such a thing
cannot come about, and with centuries to plot against such an occurence,
Revenants of these epic power levels may never become a reality.
Q). How come you haven't provided many hard numbers for your background
material?
A). Because 1-I don't have all of the appropriate books before me and
2-doing so may conceivably be an infringement on White Wolf copyrights. If
you want to get the relevant information, then buy the relevant White Wolf
books (Vampire: the Masquerade, Ghoul: Fatal Addiction and Time of Thin
Blood should cover most, if not all, of it). Please note that the words
Revenant, Vampire, Discipline, Generation, Dominance, Fortitude, Potence,
Sabbat, Blood Bond, Clan, World of Darkness and any similar words which I
may have used herein all refer to stuff associated with the Vampire: the
Masquerade game and may possibly be copyrighted by White Wolf in the context
used herein. I am uncertain. What I am certain of is that I do not intend to
infringe upon White Wolf's copyrights in any way, shape or form and am
neither making a profit nor intending to take away from their profits.
<pant, pat, pant>
BTW, if any of the above post is not covered by White Wolf's copyrights,
then I assume that the otherwise non-copyrighted material is probably the
copyright of myself and so should not be reposted for profit without my
express permission (the answer is NO!). If you're doing it for free, please
go for it (unless you start getting angry letters from aforementioned
company, at which point you should probably stop). If it turns out that I
have no copyright protection for any of the above material, then I guess
I'll have to say "Aw, shucks!" and learn to live with it. <pant, pant, pant.
End legal jargon>
So, what do you think?
-Essex
---------------------------------------------------
"I don't lurk; I'm just gathering empirical evidence."
---------------------------------------------------
The Dracon
> Here is an odd idea. Please C&C.
>
> What if Revenants could breed up to more powerful levels (We don't know
> about it yet because the proper conditions haven't been met until now). ie.:
>
> 15th Gen. Vampire + Human = 15th Gen. Revenant (Standard Revenant)
>
> 15th Gen. Vampire + 15th Gen. Vampire = 14th Gen. Revenant
>
> 14th Gen. Revenant + 14th Gen. Revenant = 13th Gen. Revenant
>
> 13th Gen. Revenant + 13th Gen. Revenant = 12th Gen. Revenant
>
> 12th Gen. Revenant + 12th Gen. Revenant = 11th Gen. Revenant
>
> 11th Gen. Revenant + 11th Gen. Revenant = 10th Gen. Revenant
>
> etc.
Mixing two of the same types of blood creates more potent blood? I don't think
that is logical...
The Dracon
"There is no need for defense against a dead opponent."
- Exalted
The Short Guy
> Mixing two of the same types of blood creates more potent blood?
It makes me think of some vamp embracing a ghoul created by a lower gen
vamp, embracing him, then diablerizing him......... repeat as necessary
until one needs to find the ghoul of an antidiluvian... can anyone else say
"Gehenna?"
I knew you could. Have a biscuit.
>I don't think that is logical...
Vampires, ghouls, mummies, true mummies, werebeasties, wraiths, faeries and
net suppliments... no captain, highly illogical.
Mant
> Here is an odd idea. Please C&C.
>
> What if Revenants could breed up to more powerful levels (We don't know
> about it yet because the proper conditions haven't been met until now). ie.:
>
> 15th Gen. Vampire + Human = 15th Gen. Revenant (Standard Revenant)
Well what you get is a Dhampir not a Revenant (or a Dhampyr, although
why the KJs use a bloody eastern european word for them escapes me,
too much Vampire Hunter D perhaps?).
Although there isn't much difference Dhampirs are descended from
vampires while Revenants only come from Ghouls (plus perhaps some
magic).
> 15th Gen. Vampire + 15th Gen. Vampire = 14th Gen. Revenant
Doesn't happen. Two Vamps can't have a kid, it has to be a Vamp and a
human.
> 14th Gen. Revenant + 14th Gen. Revenant = 13th Gen. Revenant
>
> 13th Gen. Revenant + 13th Gen. Revenant = 12th Gen. Revenant
>
> 12th Gen. Revenant + 12th Gen. Revenant = 11th Gen. Revenant
>
> 11th Gen. Revenant + 11th Gen. Revenant = 10th Gen. Revenant
This is odd, the kid is more powerful than either parent?
It would make more sense to breed successive generations of
Dhampirs/Revenants with 15th gen vampires. That way you could possibly
'thicken' their blood over time. Of course you will need to do a lot
of breeding to get just a few children given the low survival rates.
<snip>
> Revenants of varying Generation who breed together use the following chart:*
> 1). Revenants one Generation apart = Child is of same Generation as weaker
> parent.
> 2). Revenants two or more Generations apart = Child is 1 Generation beyond
> weaker parent.**
> *note that 15th Generation Revenants breeding with Revenants of superior
> Generation ONLY sire 15th Generation Revenants, as noted earlier.
> **note that a large gulf between parent Generations may (at the
> Storyteller's discretion) result in a child that is 2 or more Generations
> beyond the weaker parent, in a manner similar to a Vampire Diablerizing an
> elder several Generations lower than his own.
You need a different term from Generation. Its meaningless applied to
Revenants/Dhampirs in this way. Worse its confusing, in a breeding
program you will *start* with your first gen Revenants, breed them to
get second gen and so on.
<snip powers>
I prefer the idea the they get more powerful with age, but you could
do something vampire like with both age and 'generation' affecting
powers.
Its an iterssting idea, here is my take on these things.
> Questions to ask:
>
> Q). Can Revenants of 14th Generation or better initiate a Blood Bond?
>
> A). Maybe.
No, their 'blood' points aren't really blood since they can spend them
all and not loose any actual fluid. So drinking the blood wouldn't
really work.
> Q). How are Revenants affected by the Domination Discipline?
>
> A). A Revenant's Generation is equal to a Vampire's Generation for purposes
> of overcoming the effects of Dominance.
I'd say Vamps always trump them. They are still fundementally not
vampires, they have a weak version of the curse and vampire Disiplines
are after all *part* of the curse.
<snip>
> Q). Are there Revenant Clans with Clan Disciplines?
>
> A). Maybe. Although the capacity to breed with Revenants from outside your
> "Clan" may interfere with this. If Clans do develop, I predict that
> Revenants with a Clan Discipline of Fortitude will become quite common to
> make up for their relative frailty. Potence is a likely candidate to become
> a Clan Discipline as well.
Well you have Revenant Families with their Discplines so it could
happen, but would take a really long time to come into effect.
> Q). How fast do Revenants age?
>
> A). 15th Generation Revenants age at the rate noted in previous Vampire
> supplements (IIRC it is on the order of 100 years + 50 per point of
> Stamina). I suggest that Revenants of superior Generation get an extra 50
> years tacked onto the end of their lifespans for every additional level of
> Generation they have beyond 15th (Their childhood doesn't get any longer,
> but their time spent in old age does).
>
> Q). What happens 300 years from now when Revenants with Methuselah level
> power show up?
>
> A). Who says that'll ever happen? There are plenty of factions within the
> World of Darkness with a vested interest in making certain that such a thing
> cannot come about, and with centuries to plot against such an occurence,
> Revenants of these epic power levels may never become a reality.
Nothing much. Look at CbN Paris for a Ghoul capable of stomping most
neonate Vamps flat. Hardly imbalances the thing.
I could see some Tzimice somewhere doing a wacky breeding program with
Revenants, thin blooded and Dhampirs. Probably some follower of the
Path of Metamorphasis (sp?) trying to better understand the vampire
condition through this. You probably couldn't make enough to have them
viable as a new species though, look at the massive inbreeding
problems the existing Revenant familes have.
Mant
Dyson
The Short Guy wrote:
> > Mixing two of the same types of blood creates more potent blood?
>
> It makes me think of some vamp embracing a ghoul created by a lower gen
> vamp, embracing him, then diablerizing him......... repeat as necessary
> until one needs to find the ghoul of an antidiluvian... can anyone else say
> "Gehenna?"
Which is like trying to get drunk on non-alcoholic beer, which is techically]
possible, but takes a lot of time and a lot of beers.
noi...@zdnetmail.blockspamcom
>possible, but takes a lot of time and a lot of beers.
Not if you have the Bladder of Steel Merit and the Intolerance to
Alcohol Flaw :o)
Dunx
VoceNoctum
>why the KJs use a bloody eastern european word for them escapes me,
>too much Vampire Hunter D perhaps?).
>
>Although there isn't much difference Dhampirs are descended from
>vampires while Revenants only come from Ghouls (plus perhaps some
>magic).
My theory was always that Tzimisce over embracing led to a thin blood, and that
the first revenant's were Dhampirs. They then learned from there what made them
"special" and continued breeding from there.
Just a theory, but the Tzimisce ovrpopulated (vampire wise) the Balkan's
through teh years in stages.
Heath
that
> the first revenant's were Dhampirs. They then learned from there what made
them
> "special" and continued breeding from there.
> Just a theory, but the Tzimisce ovrpopulated (vampire wise) the Balkan's
> through teh years in stages.
That's pretty much always been my thought's on it too. And sometimes, even
in the WoD, the simplest explanation is probably the right one.
Essex
"The Dracon" <The_D...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:fnukotc74qkr9ualf...@4ax.com...
Sure it is. It's the entire basis of the concept of inbreeding. Of course,
this leads to a strengthening of both positive AND negative effects.
Essex
Mant
Well thin bloods and Dhampirs are supposed to be new in the cannon
setting. I always saw Revenants as coming from Ghouls who have
children, who are Ghouled and have more children over many
generations. Plus some Thaumaturgy/Koldonic Sorcery.
The Tzimice in teh Balkanss always stucked me as the old fashioned and
*very* fussy kind. New embraces would be few and far between and very
carefully selected. Each one had their territory and new vamps would
serve their sire in that territory as their wouldn't be any new areas
for them to claim.
And what Tzimice would suffer the shame of a Childer that wasn't a
member of the Clan and mated with a *human*? I think in the stunningly
unlikely event it occoured the would be killed.
Mant
Adamus
> It makes me think of some vamp embracing a ghoul created by a lower gen
> vamp, embracing him, then diablerizing him......... repeat as necessary
> until one needs to find the ghoul of an antidiluvian... can anyone else say
> "Gehenna?"
Since the Embrace requires the total exsanguination of the intended
Childe, you'll simply end up with a Childe that, like all Childer, is
one Generation weaker than his Sire.
- Adamus
VoceNoctum
>setting.
Nyah, just newly discovered :-)
>I always saw Revenants as coming from Ghouls who have
>children, who are Ghouled and have more children over many
>generations. Plus some Thaumaturgy/Koldonic Sorcery.
The problem is that Ghouls can't have kids while recieving the Blood. I figure
it's obvious that the continued evolution of the revenant families into
enlarged clans is solely due to Koldunic sorcery and the Tzimisce mastery of
the Blood Bond and associated studies.
That doesn't preclude where it started from though :-)
>The Tzimice in teh Balkanss always stucked me as the old fashioned and
>*very* fussy kind. New embraces would be few and far between and very
>carefully selected.
Nyah, the more childer, the harder it is to feed them, therefor, having a lot
of childer would be a form of status. If you can feed 20 young vampires, you're
obviously better off than the guy that can only support 10 :-) The head childer
would be hand-picked (and bound) but the younger ones would be seen as little
more than fodder/ servants by the Voivode. Later, that role would be better
taken over by revenants.
>And what Tzimice would suffer the shame of a Childer that wasn't a
>member of the Clan and mated with a *human*? I think in the stunningly
>unlikely event it occoured the would be killed.
All in the interests of Metamorphosis.
Mind you, there is no canon Truth here, I'm just presenting why I like the
idea.