Doe two XP heirloom items give 20 or 21% of bonus XP? Question resolved
Urbin
stacked before buying the second of them for my warlock. The consensus in
the group was that they did indeed (and they do as my warlock and priest
have used for a quick trip to 80).
However, at the time the question was whether having two items would give
20% (10% + 10%) or 21% (10% * 10%) bonus.
I finally took the time to test that.
Killing a level 60 and 61 mob without the heirloom gear gave 848 and 914 XP
respecitvely for my level 64 mage.
Now let's see how much bonus that should get us:
10% 848 * 1.1 = 932.8 914 * 1.1 = 1005.4
20% 848 * 1.2 = 1017.6 914 * 1.2 = 1096.8
21% 848 * 1.21 = 1026.08 914 * 1.21 = 1105.94
So far for the theoretical values. I then added one heirloom item, then the
second. For the same mobs I got the following XP:
1 item: 932 XP (level 60) and 1006 XP (level 61) which matches our
expectations (apart from the strange rounding).
2 items: 1018 XP (level 60) and 1096 XP (level 61) which matches our 20%
numbers.
So it seems that having two of these items gives you 10% bonus XP based on
your base XP, not once from the base XP and once from the single item bonus
XP.
Nothing world shattering but I thought others might like to have the answer
to this question :-)
Cheers
Urbin, who has moved his heirloom stuff the the third clothie
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (64), Draenei Mage
Mymule (80), Gnomish Warlock | Kordosch (65), Human Death Knight
Sunh (80), Nightelven Priest | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
steve.kaye
> I remember asking whether the 10% XP heirloom shoulders and chest pieces
> stacked before buying the second of them for my warlock. The consensus in
> the group was that they did indeed (and they do as my warlock and priest
> have used for a quick trip to 80).
>
> However, at the time the question was whether having two items would give
> 20% (10% + 10%) or 21% (10% * 10%) bonus.
>
> I finally took the time to test that.
>
> Killing a level 60 and 61 mob without the heirloom gear gave 848 and 914 XP
> respecitvely for my level 64 mage.
>
> Now let's see how much bonus that should get us:
>
> 10% 848 * 1.1 = 932.8 914 * 1.1 = 1005.4
> 20% 848 * 1.2 = 1017.6 914 * 1.2 = 1096.8
> 21% 848 * 1.21 = 1026.08 914 * 1.21 = 1105.94
>
> So far for the theoretical values. I then added one heirloom item, then the
> second. For the same mobs I got the following XP:
>
> 1 item: 932 XP (level 60) and 1006 XP (level 61) which matches our
> expectations (apart from the strange rounding).
I don't think that it is strange rounding. I think that the
experience is stored as a decimal value but displayed as an integer.
Had you got 9900.6 experience before the experiment it would have
shown as 9901, you kill one mob at 932.8 xp to get 10833.4 which would
have shown as 10833 giving a visible difference of 932. You kill
another mob at 1005.4 xp which would leave you with 11838.8 showing as
11839 for a difference of 1006 xp. This example shows exactly what
you saw but assumes that they round up at .5 and above and round down
below .5. If they truncate the visible values instead of rounding
them or always round up then I'm sure we could demonstrate the same
with different values.
The reason why I think that they store experience in this was is
because I've seen evidence that this is how reputation works. Back
when I played Alliance I remember killing Furbolgs for Timbermaw rep
with a night elf and a human. My night elf got 5 rep per kill (IIRC)
and my human alternated between 5 rep and 6 rep per kill. The 10%
bonus rep would mean that the human would have got 5.5 rep per kill
which was shown as 5 then 6, then 5 etc.
steve.kaye
Urbin
Yes, I have also seen this with rep. Once you'd get 12 and then 13, the
"true value" being 25/2.
However, during my tests, I have been getting 932 XP consistently on
repeated kills. If your theory is true, at some point I would have needed to
get 933 XP at least once in 5 kills but that did not happen. So it seems
that 932.8 are rounded down to 932 consistenly and 1005.4 is rounded up to
1006 consistently.
Ah well, if this is our biggest problem, we should be fine :-)
Cheers
Urbin
steve.kaye
How many kills did you make to come to the 848 figure? If it was only
one then that number could also be wrong and 1.1 * 848 could actually
be closer to 932 (close enough to need more than 5 kills to show
933). Assuming the 932 is accurate then 932 / 1.1 = 847.27 so would
have looked like 848 had you got more than .23 of an experience point
remainder to start with.
> Ah well, if this is our biggest problem, we should be fine :-)
Yes, but I can't believe that they'd have anything other than the 3
standard rounding methods so I found it interesting to try to find an
explanation. :)
steve.kaye
Urbin
Ah, that is a good point. I only killed one level 60 and 61 mob each. So you
are right, it might be that 848 was the one that was rounded.
> > Ah well, if this is our biggest problem, we should be fine :-)
>
> Yes, but I can't believe that they'd have anything other than the 3
> standard rounding methods so I found it interesting to try to find an
> explanation. :)
You never know, it might be "Gnomish Rounding" or "Goblin Rounding" and I
know I wouldn't expect consistency with either of them :-)
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (65), Draenei Mage
Pete B
ur...@invalid.invalid says...
> I remember asking whether the 10% XP heirloom shoulders and chest pieces
> stacked before buying the second of them for my warlock. The consensus in
> the group was that they did indeed (and they do as my warlock and priest
> have used for a quick trip to 80).
>
> However, at the time the question was whether having two items would give
> 20% (10% + 10%) or 21% (10% * 10%) bonus.
>
> I finally took the time to test that.
>
> Killing a level 60 and 61 mob without the heirloom gear gave 848 and 914 XP
> respecitvely for my level 64 mage.
>
> Now let's see how much bonus that should get us:
>
> 10% 848 * 1.1 = 932.8 914 * 1.1 = 1005.4
> 20% 848 * 1.2 = 1017.6 914 * 1.2 = 1096.8
> 21% 848 * 1.21 = 1026.08 914 * 1.21 = 1105.94
>
> So far for the theoretical values. I then added one heirloom item, then the
> second. For the same mobs I got the following XP:
>
> 1 item: 932 XP (level 60) and 1006 XP (level 61) which matches our
> expectations (apart from the strange rounding).
>
> 2 items: 1018 XP (level 60) and 1096 XP (level 61) which matches our 20%
> numbers.
>
> So it seems that having two of these items gives you 10% bonus XP based on
> your base XP, not once from the base XP and once from the single item bonus
> XP.
You lost me there. Where did the 21 come from?
And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
Urbin
If you get 10% bonus that is baseXP * (100+10)/100 = baseXp * 1.1
If you have a second item that also gives 10% it could mean that both items
give 10% from base XP, i.e. baseXP * (100+10+10)/100 = baseXP * 1.2 (and
this is what happens).
However, it could also be that the second item uses the already increased XP
as base, then you'd get baseXP * (100+10)/100 * (100+10)/100 = baseXP * 1.1
* 1.1 ? baseXP * 1.21
> And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
We're talking about the heirloom chest and shoulder which both give 10%
bonus XP. Base XP is the XP you get for a mob without the heirloom items.
You get 20% more XP when wearing both of them.
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (65), Draenei Mage
Steve Kaye
He has two items that grant 10% bonus experience. They can either add
up to 20% bonus experience or they can add up to 21% bonus experience.
For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
calculated as follows:
1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
And that's what Urbin's tests were finding out.
> And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
If you have two heirloom items that grant a bonus 10% experience then
you get 20% extra.
steve.kaye
--
Jengu - 80 Undead Death Knight Clokk - 74 Tauren Druid
Jelan - 80 Troll Priest Miho - 72 Blood Elf Rogue
Kibbs - 80 Blood Elf Paladin Jaille - 70 Blood Elf Warlock
ASKF
dette:
>I remember asking whether the 10% XP heirloom shoulders and chest pieces
>stacked before buying the second of them for my warlock. The consensus in
>the group was that they did indeed (and they do as my warlock and priest
>have used for a quick trip to 80).
>
>However, at the time the question was whether having two items would give
>20% (10% + 10%) or 21% (10% * 10%) bonus.
>
>I finally took the time to test that.
>
>Killing a level 60 and 61 mob without the heirloom gear gave 848 and 914 XP
>respecitvely for my level 64 mage.
>
>Now let's see how much bonus that should get us:
>
>10% 848 * 1.1 = 932.8 914 * 1.1 = 1005.4
>20% 848 * 1.2 = 1017.6 914 * 1.2 = 1096.8
>21% 848 * 1.21 = 1026.08 914 * 1.21 = 1105.94
>
>So far for the theoretical values. I then added one heirloom item, then the
>second. For the same mobs I got the following XP:
>
>1 item: 932 XP (level 60) and 1006 XP (level 61) which matches our
>expectations (apart from the strange rounding).
>
>2 items: 1018 XP (level 60) and 1096 XP (level 61) which matches our 20%
>numbers.
>
>So it seems that having two of these items gives you 10% bonus XP based on
>your base XP, not once from the base XP and once from the single item bonus
>XP.
>
>Nothing world shattering but I thought others might like to have the answer
>to this question :-)
You forgot to test with rested bonus too ;-P
My bet is that it's calculated on baseXP too, and then added as a
seperate sum so you got:
A = baseXP
B = baseXP * rest bonus
C = baseXP * heirloom1
D = baseXP * heirloom2
Total = A + B + C + D
That would make it a very simple routine to program and later alter if
needed.
--
Allan Stig Kiilerich Frederiksen
"When you try to change a mans paradigm, you must keep in mind that he
can hear you only through the filter of the paradigm he holds."
-Myron Tribus
Urbin
You are right, of course. Since WotLK came out I haven't played outside
rested state on any of my characters.
> My bet is that it's calculated on baseXP too, and then added as a
> seperate sum so you got:
> A = baseXP
> B = baseXP * rest bonus
> C = baseXP * heirloom1
> D = baseXP * heirloom2
>
> Total = A + B + C + D
>
> That would make it a very simple routine to program and later alter if
> needed.
That would indeed make sense.
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (65), Draenei Mage
steve.kaye
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:12:42 +0100, ASKF wrote:
But can't be true as your tests were in rest state:
Mob *with* rest XP = 848
Mob without rest XP = 848 / 1.5 = 565
A = 565
B = 565 * 0.5 = 282.5
C = 565 * 0.1 = 56.5
D = 565 * 0.1 = 56.5
Total = 565 + 282.5 + 56.5 + 56.5 = 960.5
But you actually got 848 + (848 * 0.1) + (848 * 0.1) = 1017.6 showing
that rest experience is calculated first and that heirlooms work off
the result, not the base.
steve.kaye
Urbin
> On Nov 10, 9:12=A0am, Urbin <ur...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:12:42 +0100, ASKF wrote:
> >
> >
> > You are right, of course. Since WotLK came out I haven't played outside
> > rested state on any of my characters.
> >
> > > =A0seperate sum so you got:
> > > =A0A =3D baseXP
> > > =A0B =3D baseXP * rest bonus
> > > =A0C =3D baseXP * heirloom1
> > > =A0D =3D baseXP * heirloom2
> >
> > > =A0Total =3D A + B + C + D
> >
> > > =A0That would make it a very simple routine to program and later alter =
> if
> > > =A0needed.
> >
> > That would indeed make sense.
>
> But can't be true as your tests were in rest state:
>
> Mob without rest XP =3D 848 / 1.5 =3D 565
>
> A =3D 565
> B =3D 565 * 0.5 =3D 282.5
> C =3D 565 * 0.1 =3D 56.5
> D =3D 565 * 0.1 =3D 56.5
>
> Total =3D 565 + 282.5 + 56.5 + 56.5 =3D 960.5
>
> But you actually got 848 + (848 * 0.1) + (848 * 0.1) =3D 1017.6 showing
> that rest experience is calculated first and that heirlooms work off
> the result, not the base.
You're right, that occurred to me shortly after posting. Also, in chat it
says "You gain 2*X experience (+X exp rested bonus)" which seems to imply
that it is actually:
A = baseXP
B = baseXP * 1.1
C = baseXP * 1.1
D = (B+C) * 1.5
or
D = A * 1.5
E = D * 1.1
F = D * 1.1
G = E + F which is the same as D :-)
Pete B
ur...@invalid.invalid says...
> > > So it seems that having two of these items gives you 10% bonus XP based on
> > > your base XP, not once from the base XP and once from the single item bonus
> > > XP.
> >
> > You lost me there. Where did the 21 come from?
>
> If you get 10% bonus that is baseXP * (100+10)/100 = baseXp * 1.1
>
> If you have a second item that also gives 10% it could mean that both items
> give 10% from base XP, i.e. baseXP * (100+10+10)/100 = baseXP * 1.2 (and
> this is what happens).
>
> However, it could also be that the second item uses the already increased XP
> as base, then you'd get baseXP * (100+10)/100 * (100+10)/100 = baseXP * 1.1
> * 1.1 ? baseXP * 1.21
You lose me in the calcuations, but based on the words I'd say - no. Its
all calculated from base, or it would ramp up too fast.
>
> > And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
>
> We're talking about the heirloom chest and shoulder which both give 10%
> bonus XP.
I know. 20% extra in total. 25% if you win the ring in the new fishing
contest.
Pete B
kippers.co.uk says...
Yes.
>or they can add up to 21% bonus experience.
No.
10+10=20
>
> For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
> calculated as follows:
>
> 1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
> 2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
Yeah, don't get the 1.1 or 1.2 - but 100/100*10*2=20
>> And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
>If you have two heirloom items that grant a bonus 10% experience then
>you get 20% extra.
It was your expression "base xp" where I didn't at first understand what
you were talking about
Urbin
They don't. But the could.
> 10+10=20
That's if both bonuses are taken from baseXP. If the second bonus is
calculated after the first one has already been applied, it would add up to
21% overall.
The point of the whole discussion was, which of the two methods would be
used.
> > For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
> > calculated as follows:
> >
> > 1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
> > 2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
>
> Yeah, don't get the 1.1 or 1.2 - but 100/100*10*2=20
Again, that is because they chose method A over method B. Luckily for us,
banks use method B for interest calculations :-)
> >> And base XP? You get 20% extra..?
>
> >If you have two heirloom items that grant a bonus 10% experience then
> >you get 20% extra.
>
> It was your expression "base xp" where I didn't at first understand what
> you were talking about
Ah, I see.
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (68), Draenei Mage
Pete B
ur...@invalid.invalid says...
> > > He has two items that grant 10% bonus experience. They can either add
> > > up to 20% bonus experience
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > >or they can add up to 21% bonus experience.
> >
> > No.
>
> They don't. But the could.
Well, then you could say they could add up to 7823% bonus as well.
>
> > 10+10=20
>
> That's if both bonuses are taken from baseXP. If the second bonus is
> calculated after the first one has already been applied, it would add up to
> 21% overall.
>
> The point of the whole discussion was, which of the two methods would be
> used.
>
> > > For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
> > > calculated as follows:
> > >
> > > 1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
> > > 2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
> >
> > Yeah, don't get the 1.1 or 1.2 - but 100/100*10*2=20
>
> Again, that is because they chose method A over method B. Luckily for us,
> banks use method B for interest calculations :-)
Banks use weird ways of arriving at wrong results, why am I not
surprised. But as long as they don't steal my money i suppose I should
be happy.
ASKF
dette:
>In article <slrnhg21qb...@stinky-local.trash.net>,
>ur...@invalid.invalid says...
>
>> > > He has two items that grant 10% bonus experience. They can either add
>> > > up to 20% bonus experience
>> >
>> > Yes.
>> >
>> > >or they can add up to 21% bonus experience.
>> >
>> > No.
>>
>> They don't. But the could.
>
>Well, then you could say they could add up to 7823% bonus as well.
No, not unless you invent some new math ;-P
>> > 10+10=20
>>
>> That's if both bonuses are taken from baseXP. If the second bonus is
>> calculated after the first one has already been applied, it would add up to
>> 21% overall.
>>
>> The point of the whole discussion was, which of the two methods would be
>> used.
>>
>> > > For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
>> > > calculated as follows:
>> > >
>> > > 1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
>> > > 2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
>> >
>> > Yeah, don't get the 1.1 or 1.2 - but 100/100*10*2=20
>>
>> Again, that is because they chose method A over method B. Luckily for us,
>> banks use method B for interest calculations :-)
>
>Banks use weird ways of arriving at wrong results, why am I not
>surprised. But as long as they don't steal my money i suppose I should
>be happy.
The banks are using the normal interest formula, and in this case it
would be:
BaseXP * (1 + 0.10)^2
We use the formula A = P * ( 1 + r ) ^ n
Where,
P = principal amount
r = interest rate (as a decimal)
n = number of times the interest is compounded
Actually the banks are complicating the formula a bit more, because they
apply interest several times a year, thus we get:
A = P * ( 1 + ( r / t ) ) ^ ( n * t )
Where,
P = principal amount (initial investment)
r = annual interest rate (as a decimal)
n = number of times the interest is compounded per year
t = number of years
A = amount after time t
Urbin
> In article <slrnhg21qb...@stinky-local.trash.net>,
> ur...@invalid.invalid says...
>
> > > > He has two items that grant 10% bonus experience. They can either add
> > > > up to 20% bonus experience
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > >or they can add up to 21% bonus experience.
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > They don't. But the could.
>
> Well, then you could say they could add up to 7823% bonus as well.
No. There are two ways to mathematically add the 10% boni. They could stack
and would give 21% in total or they could not stack and would then give 10%.
Blizzard chose to not stack them.
There is no way these two 10% bonuses could add up to 7823%.
Steve and I have both tried to explain this to you.
> > > 10+10=20
> >
> > That's if both bonuses are taken from baseXP. If the second bonus is
> > calculated after the first one has already been applied, it would add up to
> > 21% overall.
> >
> > The point of the whole discussion was, which of the two methods would be
> > used.
> >
> > > > For example, killing 1 mob that would normally give 100xp could be
> > > > calculated as follows:
> > > >
> > > > 1) 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 (i.e. 21% bonus)
> > > > 2) 100 * 1.2 = 120 (i.e. 20% bonus)
> > >
> > > Yeah, don't get the 1.1 or 1.2 - but 100/100*10*2=20
Ok, let's try again.
Let's say the mob gives you 100XP.
The item giving you 10% of that gives you 10XP. So, all toghether you get
110XP.
Or on a more abstract level: the mob gives x XP, the bonus is 10*x/100, the
total is x + 10*x/100. This can be written as (100*x + 10*x)/100 = 110*x/100
= x*110/100 = x* 1.1
Agree so far?
Now, if the items don't stack, they both use "x" as the XP to give a bonus
on.
So you will get x + 10*x/100 + 10*x/100 = (100*x + 10*x + 10*x)/100 = x*1.2
This is a 20% bonus for the "non-stacking" case.
Now, had Blizzard decided to let those items stack, then the first item
would give its bonus on the "raw XP" i.e. "x"
So: XP before any items: x
XP after applying one item: x * 1.1
The second item now uses the already "bonified" XP as basis for its
calculation. Let's say the XP after applying the first bonus is called "y".
From the above calculation we can say y=x*1.1, agree?
Ok, now the bonus for the second item uses exactly the same formula:
XP after second bonus z = y + 10*y/100 = y *1.1.
Now, we can replace y with 1.1*x so we get:
z = x* 1.1 * 1.1 = x * 1.21 = (100*x + 21*x)/100 = x + 21*x/100
For the "stacking" case we get a total bonus of 21%.
> > Again, that is because they chose method A over method B. Luckily for us,
> > banks use method B for interest calculations :-)
>
> Banks use weird ways of arriving at wrong results, why am I not
> surprised.
I'm not a particular fan of the banks but calculation of nested interest is
seventh grade maths and fairly trivial....
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (69), Draenei Mage
Hoofu&Oggie
> I know. 20% extra in total. 25% if you win the ring in the new fishing
> contest.
The what what?
Hoofu, 80 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)
PV
>No. There are two ways to mathematically add the 10% boni. They could stack
Just say no to fake and illiterate latin plurals. There is no "boni", there
is no (spit) "viri", at least not in relation to bonuses and viruses. *
--
* PV Something like badgers, something like lizards, and something
like corkscrews.
Urbin
> Urbin <ur...@invalid.invalid> writes:
> >No. There are two ways to mathematically add the 10% boni. They could stack
>
> Just say no to fake and illiterate latin plurals. There is no "boni", there
> is no (spit) "viri", at least not in relation to bonuses and viruses. *
Actually, in German, the correct plural of "bonus" *is* "boni" so I tend the
forget when writing in english. Usually I manage to say "bonuses" but every
once in a while a "boni" slips through. Haven't seen or used "viri" yet :)