Prot-Pally in the Scarlet Monastery
Dirk
really miss the uninterrupted heals but apart from that I like the spec.
My gear isn't particular good, mainly quest rewards and some crafted
gear, several items still in the 28-32 level range. Green items in the
AH between level 30 - 40 go for 35 gold a piece (blue > 100 gold), so
I'm not going to buy something there.
I joined a group as tank that wanted to do Scarlet Monastery
(Cathedral), consisting already of a Mage (38), Warlock (36), Druid (38)
and priest (40). Just when we reached the Monastery the priest went AFK
and then disconnected, so we went in without him.
The group consisted entirely of kids, 15 years old (I'm more than twice
as old) and I already expected this to go not too well. I've tanked all
instances (up to LBRS) with a druid, so I'm not new to tanking but it's
quite different with a Paladin. They didn't give me much time to build
up aggro, but it worked quite well until we entered the cathedral
entrance. Pulled a group of 4 people and as usual they did damage on all
guys at once. Two started running at the same time and pulled adds. 9
guys were more than I could handle and we wiped. We didn't have to run
back, as I had a soulstone. After that the mage decided he had to bring
homework to a friend, the druid had to go eat lunch and we had a 20
minute break.
After that the priest was back and joined us again. This time I decided
to pull the mobs out of the front door and we fought them outside.
During the break I also informed our warlock what Curse of Recklessness
is for. He insisted he's too low level to have this spell yet, but I
convinced him that he had it. After that he put it up on the mobs (rank
1 as I told him) and we didn't have problems with runners anymore.
We wiped anyhow, as I died once. Trusted the priest to keep me up but he
somehow was too close to the action (standing right beside me) and got
kicked by a Scarlet Monk and was silenced. I didn't want to bubble, read
once that I'll loose all aggro when I do. Is this true? There is no way
I can get a heal through with 4 people beating on me (and two who can
kick my heals).
Righteous Fury is pretty important as I lost aggro when I didn't notice
that it had run out and all of our DDs died once. After that I was more
focused and the rest was a piece of cake, never lost aggro after that
and we completed the run very fast.
I'm impressed with the paladin as a tank, it was far easier than tanking
with a druid. My druid would have never been able to hold aggro on this
run. The mage didn't know what sheeps are for and all of them did damage
on different mobs at the same time. Mage and warlock also used a lot of
AoE damage towards the end of the run once they noticed that I could
keep the mobs on me anyhow. I was happy when I could get the mobs into
position, as they did damage right from the start. The druid was
particular bad, as he often attacked mobs that I didn't hit yet and were
still running towards me.
I buffed all my trigger happy party members with Blessing of Salvation,
that really helped :). Apart from that I had Retribution Aura on (every
additional damage helps), Righteous Fury activated and used Consecration
as often as possible. I buffed myself with Blessing of Sanctuary.
Guess that's pretty basic so far, what I'm unsure about is what seal I
should use. As we had to deal with runners I often unleached Seal of
Justice on the one I was hitting and then activated Seal of Light.
Are the heals I receive from Seal of Light generating additional aggro?
If not I might be better off using Seal of Righteousness instead. More
stress for the healer but I get bonus aggro from the holy damage it
does. In this case it wouldn't have mattered anyhow, as the one I was
fighting was often the last to go down ;).
Righteous Defense is something I have to get used to. Used it a few
times, but it takes pretty long for me to figure out who got aggro and
target him. Should have used the portraits or hotkeys instead of trying
to click on the guy running around like a chicken. That's something I
really need to improve. Can a macro help me here?
What I miss is the tount ability. In case something goes really wrong I
feel like there’s not much I can do to get the mobs back on me.
Righteous Defense is nice, but if the guy getting attacked isn’t
stopping with damage I’m having a hard time getting the mob back. Had
this situation twice and felt pretty helpless in these cases.
Apart from that I understand paladins a lot better now. We have quite a
few in our raid but they are all specced holy and never given a chance
to tank, which I think is a pity as they make very good tanks (only
caster mobs are still a problem).
Dirk
vmk...@gmail.com
> Are the heals I receive from Seal of Light generating additional aggro?
> If not I might be better off using Seal of Righteousness instead. More
> stress for the healer but I get bonus aggro from the holy damage it
> does. In this case it wouldn't have mattered anyhow, as the one I was
> fighting was often the last to go down ;).
Seal of Light isn't good for tanking. You should always use Seal of
Righteousness, because Righteous Fury increases threat caused by holy
spells. It is the healer's duty to keep you up. Seal of Light is
generally good for soloing only. Use Judgement of Crusader too,
because that increases the holy damage taken quite a bit. Judgement of
Crusader is only good if the target doesn't die in couple of seconds,
though.
> Righteous Defense is something I have to get used to. Used it a few
> times, but it takes pretty long for me to figure out who got aggro and
> target him. Should have used the portraits or hotkeys instead of trying
> to click on the guy running around like a chicken. That's something I
> really need to improve. Can a macro help me here?
Yup, a macro is needed. This one works nicely:
/cast [target=target,help] Righteous Defense;
[target=targettarget,help] Righteous Defense
If your current target is friendly, this macro casts Righteous Defense
on him. If your target is hostile and the target is hitting someone
other than you, this macro will hit the target of your target. Make
sure that you have an interface option enabled which shows the target
of your target.
> What I miss is the tount ability. In case something goes really wrong I
> feel like there's not much I can do to get the mobs back on me.
> Righteous Defense is nice, but if the guy getting attacked isn't
> stopping with damage I'm having a hard time getting the mob back. Had
> this situation twice and felt pretty helpless in these cases.
You can also cast Blessing of Protection on the guy who got aggro.
This won't help against spellcasters, but it is very nice if there's a
melee mob attacking someone and Righteous Defense is resisted.
Dirk
> On 18 helmi, 12:04, Dirk <newsp...@cubeworld.net> wrote:
>> Are the heals I receive from Seal of Light generating additional aggro?
>> If not I might be better off using Seal of Righteousness instead. More
>> stress for the healer but I get bonus aggro from the holy damage it
>> does. In this case it wouldn't have mattered anyhow, as the one I was
>> fighting was often the last to go down ;).
>
> Seal of Light isn't good for tanking. You should always use Seal of
> Righteousness, because Righteous Fury increases threat caused by holy
> spells. It is the healer's duty to keep you up. Seal of Light is
> generally good for soloing only. Use Judgement of Crusader too,
> because that increases the holy damage taken quite a bit. Judgement of
> Crusader is only good if the target doesn't die in couple of seconds,
> though.
That makes sense, will start using this from now on. Too bad the heals
won't cause any additional aggro, that would have been nice.
>> Righteous Defense is something I have to get used to. Used it a few
>> times, but it takes pretty long for me to figure out who got aggro and
>> target him. Should have used the portraits or hotkeys instead of trying
>> to click on the guy running around like a chicken. That's something I
>> really need to improve. Can a macro help me here?
>
> Yup, a macro is needed. This one works nicely:
> /cast [target=target,help] Righteous Defense;
> [target=targettarget,help] Righteous Defense
Thank you, that will be very helpful. Yesterday it was never my main
target that went away, always some of the other mobs, so i would still
need to click that mob first, but that often goes faster (and I can use
Tab) than trying to find my group member.
> You can also cast Blessing of Protection on the guy who got aggro.
> This won't help against spellcasters, but it is very nice if there's a
> melee mob attacking someone and Righteous Defense is resisted.
So Blessing of Protection will cause him to loose aggro? That's nice and
in addition he can't attack for the duration, which gives me enough time
to get the mob back for sure.
Thank you for your input,
Dirk
vmk...@gmail.com
> vmki...@gmail.com wrote:
> > You can also cast Blessing of Protection on the guy who got aggro.
> > This won't help against spellcasters, but it is very nice if there's a
> > melee mob attacking someone and Righteous Defense is resisted.
>
> So Blessing of Protection will cause him to loose aggro? That's nice and
> in addition he can't attack for the duration, which gives me enough time
> to get the mob back for sure.
Blessing of Protection makes the target temporarily immune to physical
attacks. Mobs are smart, so they'll attack the next player in the
threat list instead. This is hopefully you.
If the player is a spell-caster, he can still continue casting while
the spell is active. A player can also right-click the buff and remove
it.
vmk...@gmail.com
> target that went away, always some of the other mobs, so i would still
> need to click that mob first, but that often goes faster (and I can use
> Tab) than trying to find my group member.
Make sure that you have hotkeys for marking the killing order. If
you're AOEing and everyone is hitting your main target, the other mobs
shouldn't fight anyone else than you. Use CC for casters if they
refuse to come to your melee range. If your group has several AOE
people (mages and warlocks), they can sometimes use AOE spells and
might steal aggro, but I don't think this is common strategy when
still leveling up.
steve.kaye
> I didn't want to bubble, read
> once that I'll loose all aggro when I do. Is this true?
It is true but you lost aggro anyway when you died so it might be
useful as a last ditch effort. Also, as far as I know, the threat
reduction of the bubble only lasts for as long as the bubble is up so
you could cancel it early if you get a heal. However, if you bubble
as a last ditch effort, and you wipe anyway because of the aggro loss
you *are* going to get blamed for the wipe :)
> What I miss is the tount ability. In case something goes really wrong I
> feel like there's not much I can do to get the mobs back on me.
> Righteous Defense is nice, but if the guy getting attacked isn't
> stopping with damage I'm having a hard time getting the mob back.
Righteous Defence is better than Taunt and Growl in my opinion. It's
like a multi mob taunt so if two or three adds go for the same guy
(probably the healer or someone aoeing) taunt can only get one back
but Righteous Defence can get up to three. I have, on occaision, had
a problem with range - Taunt and Growl work off the range to the mob
(which is right by you if you just lost aggro and you're quick)
whereas RD works off the range to the player who could be too far away
if they are ranged dps. It does work the other way too though - with
taunt you might have to run to catch something that RD could pick up
stood still.
steve.kaye
Polarhound
> The group consisted entirely of kids, 15 years old (I'm more than twice
> as old) and I already expected this to go not too well. I've tanked all
> instances (up to LBRS) with a druid, so I'm not new to tanking but it's
> quite different with a Paladin. They didn't give me much time to build
> up aggro, but it worked quite well until we entered the cathedral
> entrance. Pulled a group of 4 people and as usual they did damage on all
> guys at once. Two started running at the same time and pulled adds. 9
> guys were more than I could handle and we wiped. We didn't have to run
> back, as I had a soulstone. After that the mage decided he had to bring
> homework to a friend, the druid had to go eat lunch and we had a 20
> minute break.
If you think that was fun, try doing SFK as a 4-man when the mages don't
want to listen when you tell them not to initiate combat then whine
while you are standing there with 4 mobs stacking Silence on you as you
endure wipe #3246..
Ian Jones
"Polarhound" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:nqqdnefeid26AyTa...@comcast.com...
another thing to try is use level 1 concercrate, builds aggro on all mobs
around u, and i use judgement of wisdom and seal of rightouenous for mobs,
and seal of crusader on bosses, and the crusader on mobs may not always proc
to give u the extra holy damage and with fury on, rightousnes will generate
more threat than crusdaer,
also the extra mana will help with the concercate's up and thus more mana =
more threat
Egbard 70 prot pally
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&n=Egbard
hume.sp...@bofh.ca
> kicked by a Scarlet Monk and was silenced. I didn't want to bubble, read
> once that I'll loose all aggro when I do. Is this true? There is no way
It's true... it's a complete aggro dump. However, it's not completely
useless... in certain encounters you're going to lose all aggro anyway,
and in other spots it can function like a mage iceblock and remove some
terrible debuff that's about to kill you.
As someone else mentioned, death is a complete aggro dump, too. :)
> Are the heals I receive from Seal of Light generating additional aggro?
Yes, but paladins have much reduced threat from healing anyway, so it
really doesn't match the threat you'd generate with Righteousness.
As an aside, this is true for the heals from Prayer of Mending, too.
> If not I might be better off using Seal of Righteousness instead. More
> stress for the healer but I get bonus aggro from the holy damage it
If the healer gains aggro, that'd be far more stress. :)
As a person who plays a priest, I'd say not to worry about Light. The
healing gained from it would be trivial in most instances, not enough for
me to hold back healing. I'd rather more threat generation... and more
damage means a shorter fight, and thus less healing needed anyway.
Rather than worrying about healing HP back, just take steps to not lose
it in the first place... and that's done by mitigation: armour, defence,
and resistances.
> Righteous Defense is something I have to get used to. Used it a few
As someone else mentioned, the Righteous Defence macro is invaluable.
Rather than worrying about which character over-DPS'd, just click on the
mob and taunt him back, and any of his buddies who probably are headed to
the same player.
Also, don't forget Hammer of Justice.
> Righteous Defense is nice, but if the guy getting attacked isn?t
> stopping with damage I?m having a hard time getting the mob back. Had
> this situation twice and felt pretty helpless in these cases.
With the macro and HoJ, you should find it a bit easier. Also, to follow
up on the recommendation of Blessing of Protection made by someone else:
BoJ also forces the player you Bless to *stop* whatever they're doing to
generate aggro. That's almost more valuable than protecting them from
damage. :)
> few in our raid but they are all specced holy and never given a chance
> to tank, which I think is a pity as they make very good tanks (only
> caster mobs are still a problem).
Yeah, we don't really have a way of shutting them up. You'll need to rely
on silences from your party members.
Although, in certain spots, this is where your Divine Shield comes in handy;
casters won't try to cast through it, they'll run up and try to hit you.
So if you pop that, and run into a pack of them, they'll gather up and
you can hit them with your Consecrate. By the time your shield drops you'll
have built up a nice head of threat, hopefully enough for your party to
AoE them down in short order. This is handy for certain encounters when
there isn't the possibility of a line-of-sight pull.
But doing that *requires* your party to keep their hands in their pockets
until your shield drops. No priest shield, no renew, nothing. That's a
bit much for a pickup group to handle. :)
--
Brandon Hume - hume -> BOFH.Ca, http://WWW.BOFH.Ca/
PV
>It's true... it's a complete aggro dump. However, it's not completely
It is *not* an aggro dump. as soon as the bubble pops, your aggro is back
where it was. Mobs ignore you because you're unhittable, not because you
have no threat. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
hume.sp...@bofh.ca
> It is *not* an aggro dump. as soon as the bubble pops, your aggro is back
Aha! Thanks for clarifying.
Daniel Seriff
(in article <61t3jiF...@mid.individual.net>):
> Apart from that I understand paladins a lot better now. We have quite a
> few in our raid but they are all specced holy and never given a chance
> to tank, which I think is a pity as they make very good tanks (only
> caster mobs are still a problem).
I ran SM-C the other day with two paladins, one holy, one prot. I'm a
mixed-spec BM/MK hunter. Best PuG experience I've ever had. It didn't hurt
that we were all a bit overleveled (48/50/52, IIRC), but watching the tank
pull about a dozen guys out of the cathedral per sweep was endless
entertainment. I'd just shoot into the mass as I pleased and wouldn't pull
any aggro at all, then I'd pick off any runners as they fled. It only took
four or five sweeps to clear the whole cathedral, and the bosses were cake as
a result.
I've become a big believer in the prot pally tank. Keep working at it, and
you'll be loved by everyone you PuG with.
--
Daniel Seriff
Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play
chess with a pigeon - it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and
flies back to its flock to claim victory.
ScratchMonkey
news:fpeq74$dol$1...@Kil-nws-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca:
> BoJ also forces the player you Bless to *stop* whatever they're doing
> to generate aggro. That's almost more valuable than protecting them
> from damage. :)
LOL, so bubble the mage just before you wade into battle. I gotta try that!
Barry Freeman
>> Are the heals I receive from Seal of Light generating additional aggro?
>> If not I might be better off using Seal of Righteousness instead. More
>> stress for the healer but I get bonus aggro from the holy damage it
>> does. In this case it wouldn't have mattered anyhow, as the one I was
>> fighting was often the last to go down ;).
>
>Seal of Light isn't good for tanking. You should always use Seal of
>Righteousness, because Righteous Fury increases threat caused by holy
>spells. It is the healer's duty to keep you up. Seal of Light is
>generally good for soloing only. Use Judgement of Crusader too,
>because that increases the holy damage taken quite a bit. Judgement of
>Crusader is only good if the target doesn't die in couple of seconds,
>though.
Seconded..
Seal of the Crusader, Judged, Seal of Righteousness.
Blessing of Sanctuary on you, Salvation on ranged DPS, maybe might on
melee classes. Devotion Aura for the added Armour, or Retribution for
a bit of extra damage.
I recommend NOT bothering with blessing of Kings. Oh, sure it's 15% on
stats, but if you just want to boost stats, then use Wisdom on Mana
users, Might on melee'ers. I see Kings used too often, and I think
it's just a lazy paladin who can't be bothered to think about what to
use.
Get SmartBuff, also.. it'll remind you to re-buff and you can set it
up to use the appropriate blessings.
Do you have holy Shield yet? get that and the Improved Holy Shield
too.
You can pump out quite a bit of DPS just on reflection, because the
added holy damage from Holy Shield is also amplified by Judgement of
the Crusader as is Consecration.
If you watch for Redoubt procs and use Holy Shield right after, thats
more than 60% chance to block.
Also, get a shield spike... it's minimal damage, but it's damage every
time you block which is extra threat.
Barry Freeman
>Make sure that you have hotkeys for marking the killing order. If
>you're AOEing and everyone is hitting your main target, the other mobs
>shouldn't fight anyone else than you. Use CC for casters if they
>refuse to come to your melee range. If your group has several AOE
>people (mages and warlocks), they can sometimes use AOE spells and
>might steal aggro, but I don't think this is common strategy when
>still leveling up.
Your healer will generate threat on EVERY mob that is attacking you,
and if you don't generate more threat on all of them, they will go for
the healer.
John Gordon
> Your healer will generate threat on EVERY mob that is attacking you,
> and if you don't generate more threat on all of them, they will go for
> the healer.
This is certainly true, but there's a wrinkle that I didn't know about
for a long time.
If there are some mobs attacking you and I heal you, my threat is divided
equally among all the mobs.
--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
ScratchMonkey
news:0ta8s3p77pjn3bjte...@4ax.com:
> I recommend NOT bothering with blessing of Kings. Oh, sure it's 15% on
> stats, but if you just want to boost stats, then use Wisdom on Mana
> users, Might on melee'ers. I see Kings used too often, and I think
> it's just a lazy paladin who can't be bothered to think about what to
> use.
I tend to use this on rogues, since there's no other agility-based
blessing. For hunters I tend to use Wisdom, but I'll throw Kings if they
want it.
Alphawolf
<ScratchMonk...@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
>Barry Freeman <ba...@nospam.co.uk> wrote in
>news:0ta8s3p77pjn3bjte...@4ax.com:
>
>> I recommend NOT bothering with blessing of Kings. Oh, sure it's 15% on
>> stats, but if you just want to boost stats, then use Wisdom on Mana
>> users, Might on melee'ers. I see Kings used too often, and I think
>> it's just a lazy paladin who can't be bothered to think about what to
>> use.
>
At the high end, Kings scales best.
>I tend to use this on rogues, since there's no other agility-based
>blessing. For hunters I tend to use Wisdom, but I'll throw Kings if they
>want it.
Wisdom on Hunters? Argh! A BM might prefer Might, but this SV hunter
will take Kings any time (usually saddled with Might though).
Kings is one of the best buffs in the game, and it's only 1 talent
point very wisely spent.
----
Gnuthulhu, Undead Warlock
Fthagn, Undead Warrior
Rhyleya, Troll Hunter
Wydefoote, Tauren Shaman
Curwen, Blood Knight
Thunderhorn,US
ScratchMonkey
news:78fes3tc7nfef6952...@4ax.com:
> Wisdom on Hunters? Argh! A BM might prefer Might, but this SV hunter
> will take Kings any time (usually saddled with Might though).
Why Might? Does it affect ranged DPS? Presumably your pet is doing the
stuff that needs Might, so I cast that on the pet. My hunter burns through
mana like crazy, which is why I've leaned towards Wisdom. But I'm open to
suggestion.
steve.kaye
<ScratchMonkey.blackl...@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
> Alphawolf <gnuthu...@gmail.com> wrote innews:78fes3tc7nfef6952...@4ax.com:
I often grouped with a hunter on my paladin and he was always OOM so I
always gave him Wisdom.
steve.kaye
Barry Freeman
<gor...@panix.com> wrote:
>This is certainly true, but there's a wrinkle that I didn't know about
>for a long time.
>
>If there are some mobs attacking you and I heal you, my threat is divided
>equally among all the mobs.
Yes, and very useful it is too.. I find it much harder to get aggro
off a prot Paladoin tank than a warrior tank of the same level.
I think it's almost instinctive for prot pallies to cast Consecrate
and have Judgement of the Crusader up as well, plus shield-spike
damage plus Blessing of Sanctuary plus Holy Shield.. all AOE damage on
every mob attacking..
Warriors really only have Thunderclap and have to target-dance a bit..
is this right? Is there any AOE damage on block for warriors?
Barry Freeman
<ScratchMonk...@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
>I tend to use this on rogues, since there's no other agility-based
>blessing. For hunters I tend to use Wisdom, but I'll throw Kings if they
>want it.
I usualy ask Rogues.. Might or Salvation.. Salvation is my preferred
one because they can DPS more.
In fact, Salvation might be *the* most-preferred blessing.. giving
everyone in your party the ability to generate 30% more threat before
pulling aggro is very useful.
Alphawolf
<nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> wrote:
>On 29 Feb, 07:06, ScratchMonkey
><ScratchMonkey.blackl...@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
>> Alphawolf <gnuthu...@gmail.com> wrote innews:78fes3tc7nfef6952...@4ax.com:
>>
>> > Wisdom on Hunters? Argh! A BM might prefer Might, but this SV hunter
>> > will take Kings any time (usually saddled with Might though).
>>
>> Why Might? Does it affect ranged DPS? Presumably your pet is doing the
>> stuff that needs Might, so I cast that on the pet. My hunter burns through
>> mana like crazy, which is why I've leaned towards Wisdom. But I'm open to
>> suggestion.
Might's AP increase does indeed effect Ranged AP. Like I said a BM
will probably want Might, and a Survival hunter like myself would
greatly prefer Kings. Hunter pets should always get Might. For a
warlock minion, I'd go Kings again.
>
>I often grouped with a hunter on my paladin and he was always OOM so I
>always gave him Wisdom.
Did he just not stop to drink? Hunters are fundamentally casters - go
OOM and watch your dps plummet. However most fights outside of raids
don't last long enough to make a hunter go OOM, especially with Aspect
of the Viper available.