Shadowlands

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Lewis

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Mar 15, 2021, 3:05:23 PM3/15/21
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The vry weird and very obvious christian storyline in shadowlands
(literally Angels and fallen angels) seems pretty damn weird to me.

Of course, I am only a level 53 or so in the very "follow the nose ring
quest line" so who knows where it will end up, but boy does it feel
like Sunday school.

Shadowlands expansion was 20% off, so decided to give it a shot for a
month and see how it goes since there's no end in sight to all ...
<waves arms> this.

--
'In the Fyres of Struggle let us bake New Men, who Will Notte heed
the old Lies.'

Catriona R

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Mar 15, 2021, 11:58:40 PM3/15/21
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:05:21 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>The vry weird and very obvious christian storyline in shadowlands
>(literally Angels and fallen angels) seems pretty damn weird to me.
>
>Of course, I am only a level 53 or so in the very "follow the nose ring
>quest line" so who knows where it will end up, but boy does it feel
>like Sunday school.

Didn't seem much that way to me, but then I'm rather a face value
kinda person,, never noticed the Narnia books were allegories till it
was pointed out to me, admittedly I was a kid then, but even now I
don't see anything with angel-like beings as being obviously
christian, just partially inspired by that particular aspect of it.
The other zones are rather less that way anyway, plenty of different
themes to be found overall.

>Shadowlands expansion was 20% off, so decided to give it a shot for a
>month and see how it goes since there's no end in sight to all ...
><waves arms> this.

Hehe worth a shot! A month is a good amount of time to explore and do
the story before getting too bored... as a casual I'm waiting for 9.1
at present, and have been since the covenant campaign ended several
weeks back. Admittedly I could lvl an alt to see the other covenants,
but I'm a bit too low on motivation to get around to that, either I've
just changed in myself to find two expansions in a row to be weak, or
the game isn't what it once was, not sure which but anyway, end result
is I'm just out of motivation to do stuff now, everything available to
do feels like chores (and ugh the Maw is so tedious, roll on 9.1
letting us take over some of it and make it less annoying... if
champion repgrinder me can't be bothered to finish maxing the rep
there, I think that says it all)

None of the above complaining is to say that it's bad while levelling,
or in the first while at max lvl; I enjoyed exploring the zones and
doing my covenant campaign, and the Bolvar/Torghast questline... it
just didn't really last long enough!

Still, the good side about Classic existing is there's a different
game I can play for the same sub, so I'm getting my money's worth on
my now lvl 30 dwarf hunter. Hadn't played that since things went wrong
in my old guild; that game is a bit too dependent on having a good
social network of people to group with, and I didn't have that nor am
I social enough to easily find one that suits me, so I didn't really
do anything after hitting max lvl, but levelling an alt is fun anyway;
the questing always was my favourite part, and the part I missed most
after Cata removed it.

Lewis

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Mar 16, 2021, 5:34:08 AM3/16/21
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In message <pda05gtarshg45c7b...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 19:05:21 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>>The vry weird and very obvious christian storyline in shadowlands
>>(literally Angels and fallen angels) seems pretty damn weird to me.
>>
>>Of course, I am only a level 53 or so in the very "follow the nose ring
>>quest line" so who knows where it will end up, but boy does it feel
>>like Sunday school.

> Didn't seem much that way to me, but then I'm rather a face value
> kinda person,, never noticed the Narnia books were allegories till it
> was pointed out to me, admittedly I was a kid then, but even now I
> don't see anything with angel-like beings as being obviously
> christian, just partially inspired by that particular aspect of it.
> The other zones are rather less that way anyway, plenty of different
> themes to be found overall.

Well, angels and fallen angels seemed a bit on the nose to me. But the
next zone is very different, so <shrug>

>>Shadowlands expansion was 20% off, so decided to give it a shot for a
>>month and see how it goes since there's no end in sight to all ...
>><waves arms> this.

> Hehe worth a shot! A month is a good amount of time to explore and do
> the story before getting too bored... as a casual I'm waiting for 9.1
> at present, and have been since the covenant campaign ended several
> weeks back. Admittedly I could lvl an alt to see the other covenants,
> but I'm a bit too low on motivation to get around to that, either I've
> just changed in myself to find two expansions in a row to be weak, or
> the game isn't what it once was, not sure which but anyway, end result
> is I'm just out of motivation to do stuff now, everything available to
> do feels like chores (and ugh the Maw is so tedious, roll on 9.1
> letting us take over some of it and make it less annoying... if
> champion repgrinder me can't be bothered to finish maxing the rep
> there, I think that says it all)

I ran out of motivation for everything else. Not even able to keep up on
the TV I want to watch, so this might make a change.

One thing that I do like so far, though i doubt it will last, is that
gear is not falling from the sky. At level 56 I JUST got an upgrade for
my weapon, so will be taking my first trip to the transmog vendor on my
mount. Gives me hope Blizzard ha learned that constant incremental
upgrades are not fun.

> Still, the good side about Classic existing is there's a different
> game I can play for the same sub, so I'm getting my money's worth on
> my now lvl 30 dwarf hunter. Hadn't played that since things went wrong
> in my old guild; that game is a bit too dependent on having a good
> social network of people to group with, and I didn't have that nor am
> I social enough to easily find one that suits me, so I didn't really
> do anything after hitting max lvl, but levelling an alt is fun anyway;
> the questing always was my favourite part, and the part I missed most
> after Cata removed it.

I might look at Classic TBC, but I doubt it.

Anyway, I should hit Max level today at the rate I am going (Fast, but
not stupid fast) or tomorrow and then I'll see what else there is to do.

--
I'll have what the gentleman on the floor is having.

Catriona R

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Mar 16, 2021, 8:32:56 PM3/16/21
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On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:34:06 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <pda05gtarshg45c7b...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Didn't seem much that way to me, but then I'm rather a face value
>> kinda person,, never noticed the Narnia books were allegories till it
>> was pointed out to me, admittedly I was a kid then, but even now I
>> don't see anything with angel-like beings as being obviously
>> christian, just partially inspired by that particular aspect of it.
>> The other zones are rather less that way anyway, plenty of different
>> themes to be found overall.
>
>Well, angels and fallen angels seemed a bit on the nose to me. But the
>next zone is very different, so <shrug>

Yeah the other zones are very much their own things, totally different
themes, all pretty interesting though. At least it gives me reason to
level alts to see the other stories sometime!

>I ran out of motivation for everything else. Not even able to keep up on
>the TV I want to watch, so this might make a change.
>
>One thing that I do like so far, though i doubt it will last, is that
>gear is not falling from the sky. At level 56 I JUST got an upgrade for
>my weapon, so will be taking my first trip to the transmog vendor on my
>mount. Gives me hope Blizzard ha learned that constant incremental
>upgrades are not fun.

It does last and is not particularly fun when mobs are owning you and
you can't get any gear to help you do better against them. You'll get
it less badly than I did, as the covenant campaign is a great way to
get gear; when I did it only a little bit unlocked each week but now
you can blast through the whole thing. Or at least, you can if your
horrific gear will let you, as it does not come at all quickly: I
gather from forum complaints that even people who like farming
dungeons feel it drops too slowly there, while my preferred world
quests and rep option was incredibly slow (although it did actually
make rep feel useful for once, as all the rep reward gear was still
upgrades when I got it!). The covenant gear helps substantially with
that (as any gear you get from there boosts your ilvl, making for
better WQ drops, together with the WQ ilvl cap being increased renown
levels), and I did eventually gain a good level of gear, only a little
below normal raid which is ok, but the pacing felt rather poor.

For me, much of the fun of the game is in progressing my character,
and when there is no more progress to be found (as is now the case for
me, with what looks like months till the next patch), that is my idea
of "not fun", so I guess we're opposites, as usual ;-)

>> Still, the good side about Classic existing is there's a different
>> game I can play for the same sub, so I'm getting my money's worth on
>> my now lvl 30 dwarf hunter. Hadn't played that since things went wrong
>> in my old guild; that game is a bit too dependent on having a good
>> social network of people to group with, and I didn't have that nor am
>> I social enough to easily find one that suits me, so I didn't really
>> do anything after hitting max lvl, but levelling an alt is fun anyway;
>> the questing always was my favourite part, and the part I missed most
>> after Cata removed it.
>
>I might look at Classic TBC, but I doubt it.

I'll play it a bit but expect vanilla Classic to remain my preference:
TBC was great fun at the time, but it's 10 levels of levelling, which
I did way too many times (I still really can't face HFP and
Zangarmarsh) and still exist on live, vs 60 levels I can't do on live
any more and missed a lot. Endgame in both requires more grouping than
I enjoy without a decent group of friends, although TBC in later
phases will at least invent daily quests which is some actual solo
content for me, plus I really enjoy jewelcrafting as a profession. But
overall I expect the classic levelling to hold my attention more,
though I'll transfer most my characters to TBC and just reroll them in
classic, may as well enjoy levelling them again, given that's the fun
part for me!

>Anyway, I should hit Max level today at the rate I am going (Fast, but
>not stupid fast) or tomorrow and then I'll see what else there is to do.

Cool, there's a good bit to do at first, in fact with all the
timegated stuff available at once you may feel a bit overwhelmed by it
lol. I think you have to finish all 4 zones main quests (first
character only; alts don't have to finish it all), but then everything
else will unlock, and there's a few story chains, plus the Maw and
Torghast.

I love Torghast as gameplay goes but sure wish they'd bothered to put
in any rewards beyond legendary stuff, as once you max your legendary
there's no point going back - I'd envisaged an island expeditions
level of cosmetic loot dropds but nope, there's a few pets on terrible
droprates and that's it. Such a shame, I'd spend so much time in there
if they'd made it like islands... meanwhile I'm still waiting for solo
queue for islands so at least I could do those instead!

Lewis

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Mar 18, 2021, 1:17:10 PM3/18/21
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In message <a0i25g9sj62nf3pft...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 09:34:06 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

> It does last and is not particularly fun when mobs are owning you and
> you can't get any gear to help you do better against them.

Eh, I mean I went from ilvl 102 to 140 at level 60 and replaced all my
gear but my neck piece (ilvl 144) so I defintiely got upgrades, just not
14 different helms for 10 levels.

I am still pretty underpowered at ilvl 143, to be sure, but I really do
like the slower progress and it feels like item upgrades have a real
impact because of it.

> You'll get it less badly than I did, as the covenant campaign is a
> great way to get gear;

The only issue so far with that, (One day!) is that there are only a
handful of WQs each day to do, some of them really suck, and you need to
do three to get the next renown level.

And oh man, is Anima going to be a slow-assed grind, I can already tell.
Some of those improvements are 10K anima.

> when I did it only a little bit unlocked each week but now you can
> blast through the whole thing. Or at least, you can if your
> horrific gear will let you,

My only issues are 1) pulling too many or "oops, that was an elite with
6 times my health and I'm still in Broth mode". If I pay attention, it
goes reasonably well until my pet decides to run after something and
pulls 14 mobs.

> as it does not come at all quickly: I gather from forum complaints
> that even people who like farming dungeons feel it drops too slowly
> there,

Hard for me to say, I ran one instance and got two pieces of 158 gear
and a level of renown. I have a covenant quest that seems to require a
different instance (Says there is a WQ option, but it's not on the map).
But I do not mind running LFG at all. The last instance the entire caht
log was

Me: first time
tank: k

> For me, much of the fun of the game is in progressing my character,
> and when there is no more progress to be found (as is now the case for
> me, with what looks like months till the next patch), that is my idea
> of "not fun", so I guess we're opposites, as usual ;-)

Well, there are very large parts of the game that you do not participate
in (PVP, Instances, Raids), so your progress is definitely going to be
limited. For example, I don't do PVP much if at all, while a friend of
mine got raid-ready just through PVP.

>>I might look at Classic TBC, but I doubt it.

> I'll play it a bit but expect vanilla Classic to remain my preference:

Right, but I really hate Classic and will never play it. TBC made so
many QoL improvements that I *might* take a look at it. The only thing
worse than playing Wow 1.x for me would be playing WoW 1.x with the WoW
9.x engine and many of the "current" features, since "Classic" is
actually a much more limited and very wrong recreation of what 1.x was
like. For example, hunter pets in Classic are just as stupid and broken
and limited as pets in Shadowlands and nothing like pets were in WoW
1.x. Or addons that worked in 1.x and improved the base game vastly no
longer work because of the changes to the addon system. Or Macros. Or
basically every feature of the game as it was is different in a myriad
of subtle and inferior ways.

> I'll transfer most my characters to TBC and just reroll them in
> classic, may as well enjoy levelling them again, given that's the fun
> part for me!

<Sound of screams as my teeth are drilled without painkillers>

>>Anyway, I should hit Max level today at the rate I am going (Fast, but
>>not stupid fast) or tomorrow and then I'll see what else there is to do.

> Cool, there's a good bit to do at first, in fact with all the
> timegated stuff available at once you may feel a bit overwhelmed by it
> lol. I think you have to finish all 4 zones main quests (first
> character only; alts don't have to finish it all), but then everything
> else will unlock, and there's a few story chains, plus the Maw and
> Torghast.

There is less to do than I expected, though I could go do more WQs in
other zones, but that seems almost entirely pointless. Also, not sure it
is actually possible. While they show up on the overall Shadowlands Map,
they are not showing up on the zone map, but that might be my settings
for "World Quest Tracker". I have not gone to the zones to look.

> I love Torghast as gameplay goes but sure wish they'd bothered to put

I have only been in there twice. Once as part of the storyline, and once
on a covenant quest. I found the second time confusing and odd as
somehow I ended up leaving the instance in the middle (I though I was
going to the next level?) and didn’t get to the "Warden Arkoban killed"
portion. There's a lot of fiddly "pick from these three slight power
boosts" interruptions, and I know some of those runs takes hours (a
friend who is back to WoW for the first time in many years was boasting
of having completed a run at some high level in "under 8 hours". Pretty
sure that was Torghast.

Absolutely zero chance that I will ever ever EVER sit in front of WoW
for 8 hours.

Again.

> in any rewards beyond legendary stuff, as once you max your legendary
> there's no point going back - I'd envisaged an island expeditions
> level of cosmetic loot dropds but nope, there's a few pets on terrible
> droprates and that's it. Such a shame, I'd spend so much time in there
> if they'd made it like islands... meanwhile I'm still waiting for solo
> queue for islands so at least I could do those instead!

There is a mount that is usable in The Maw, which is why my friend was
running it over and over.

Today, It looks like I have about an hour's worth of stuff to do that
seems useful, and that instance if I decide to do that. I need a bit
more anima so I can unlock the travel network thing, And I just unlocked
the "Next chapter" in the covenant, but I haven't finished the previous
one because of Torghast.

WoW 9 looks like less of a time-sink, but slower progress, I am not
convinced that's not a good trade-off. Sure, I COULD spent 8 hours in
Toghast or all day in PVP, but that's not happening.

--
Vampires have risen from the dead, the grave and the crypt, but have
never managed it from the cat. --Witches Abroad

Catriona R

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Mar 19, 2021, 10:50:17 PM3/19/21
to
On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>Eh, I mean I went from ilvl 102 to 140 at level 60 and replaced all my
>gear but my neck piece (ilvl 144) so I defintiely got upgrades, just not
>14 different helms for 10 levels.
>
>I am still pretty underpowered at ilvl 143, to be sure, but I really do
>like the slower progress and it feels like item upgrades have a real
>impact because of it.

That's true, yeah, it does make getting an upgrade feel worthwhile.
Also makes it really, really suck, when you get a cool piece from a
world boss or whatever that'd be a huge upgrade... in any slot other
than the one that dropped, because of course that's your one good item
:-P

>> You'll get it less badly than I did, as the covenant campaign is a
>> great way to get gear;
>
>The only issue so far with that, (One day!) is that there are only a
>handful of WQs each day to do, some of them really suck, and you need to
>do three to get the next renown level.

Ahh yeah, forgot it's mainly on callings, yeah, I think you can get
renown levels from dungeons or raids too as catchup, I'm not totally
sure though as I kept mine up to date until recently (plus I'd
generally rather do the callings anyway). I can only agree about some
WQs sucking, too, especially when your gear is weak. Supposedly,
they're supposed to be "longer and more involved, for more reward"
than they were in past expansions - well they did the first bit but I
didn't see the greater rewards yet to make them feel worth doing
except on the rare occasion they have a gear upgrade for me.

>And oh man, is Anima going to be a slow-assed grind, I can already tell.
>Some of those improvements are 10K anima.

Yep! I usually like grinds, but that one? It's ridiculously bad,
especially as my main motivation ingame is cosmetic stuff, and that
lot... you're talking 125k anima for one covenant alone (84k to max
the covenant and another 41k for the cosmetics), while even when
playing a lot I averaged 1.5-2k a week. I think it contributed to my
burnout that led me to just stop playing a few weeks back, the
neverending grind; I've only maxed one of my improvements, and have
zero cosmetics so far, hoping they'll improve anima gain rates in
later patches.

>> when I did it only a little bit unlocked each week but now you can
>> blast through the whole thing. Or at least, you can if your
>> horrific gear will let you,
>
>My only issues are 1) pulling too many or "oops, that was an elite with
>6 times my health and I'm still in Broth mode". If I pay attention, it
>goes reasonably well until my pet decides to run after something and
>pulls 14 mobs.

Hehe that's a story I kow well lol. Gets easier with better gear, even
my healer spec can take 3 mobs with only moderate annoyance now but
some elites are still very much "there's a reason this is labelled a
group quest" for me.

>> as it does not come at all quickly: I gather from forum complaints
>> that even people who like farming dungeons feel it drops too slowly
>> there,
>
>Hard for me to say, I ran one instance and got two pieces of 158 gear
>and a level of renown. I have a covenant quest that seems to require a
>different instance (Says there is a WQ option, but it's not on the map).

There'll be one somewhere, assuming it's for a calling - if however
you're Kyrian and doing the campaign, then you really do need to do
the dungeon, trust me to pick that only one with a mandatory dungeon
in the story! Duoable for tank_healer at 185-190 ilvl, I now know, but
that was a ltitle annoying until we reached that level :-P

>But I do not mind running LFG at all. The last instance the entire caht
>log was
>
>Me: first time
>tank: k

Lol, not bad. I'm over nervous about pugs these days, the bad
experiences stuck in the mind, as do horror stories I read on the
forums or reddit which reinforce my expectation for it to be terrible,
even though most probably are just like yours. Luckily I can usually
avoid them, especially my bf and I have got fairly good at duoing
dungeons now, our rule of thumb is if we have 30 ilvls over what drops
there it should be fine on normal.

I *did do LFR the week the last boss released, as I read there were a
couple of story quests that unlocked from it (and gave total 2.5k
anima!), and that thankfully went fine, think that was the first LFR I
did since I had to do Dazar'alor to continue the war campaign about 2
years ago lol.

>> For me, much of the fun of the game is in progressing my character,
>> and when there is no more progress to be found (as is now the case for
>> me, with what looks like months till the next patch), that is my idea
>> of "not fun", so I guess we're opposites, as usual ;-)
>
>Well, there are very large parts of the game that you do not participate
>in (PVP, Instances, Raids), so your progress is definitely going to be
>limited. For example, I don't do PVP much if at all, while a friend of
>mine got raid-ready just through PVP.

True indeed, I just got used to progression continuing more in the
last couple of expansions, for all the raider types hate titanforging
it gave me reasons to continue playing and not just quit between
patches, also gave me a way to catch up on gear a little.

I found it very frustrating that they removed it right at the same
time they added essentially solo-orientated content (horrific visions,
leading into Torghast), both of which are really gear dependent, so
content which should be great for solo people is essentially gated by
gear not available to solo people. Don't mind slow gearing when I get
near to normal raid ilvl, it's hiting a brick wall gearwise when
there's still solo content I can't do that's un-fun.

>>>I might look at Classic TBC, but I doubt it.
>
>> I'll play it a bit but expect vanilla Classic to remain my preference:
>
>Right, but I really hate Classic and will never play it. TBC made so
>many QoL improvements that I *might* take a look at it. The only thing
>worse than playing Wow 1.x for me would be playing WoW 1.x with the WoW
>9.x engine and many of the "current" features, since "Classic" is
>actually a much more limited and very wrong recreation of what 1.x was
>like. For example, hunter pets in Classic are just as stupid and broken
>and limited as pets in Shadowlands and nothing like pets were in WoW
>1.x.

My memory may well be faulty, but I don't notice any problems with my
hunter's pet compared with how it was in vanilla (I did have a hunter
back then, although certainly, 15 years haven't kept the memory
fresh), aside for an annoying liking for spamming Claw and so never
generating enough focus to cast Growl, no matter how I position them
in the actionbar, which was easily enough solved by disabling Claw
autocast and micromanaging it more. Otherwise it has proper defensive
mode, which is so much better than the present-day assist mode, and I
don't notice anything else which stands out.

>Or addons that worked in 1.x and improved the base game vastly no
>longer work because of the changes to the addon system. Or Macros. Or
>basically every feature of the game as it was is different in a myriad
>of subtle and inferior ways.

Most the old addons have been recreated or replaced by newer ones
luckily, I think I have addons that recreate everything I had back
then, many of which are the same addons updated (or back-dated if
they're still alive on live). Not sure if original Decursive works,
mind, but that always was a ridiculous cheese to one-button spam
decurse whoever needed it, so if it doesn't, fair enough!

>> I'll transfer most my characters to TBC and just reroll them in
>> classic, may as well enjoy levelling them again, given that's the fun
>> part for me!
>
><Sound of screams as my teeth are drilled without painkillers>

Haha :-) Luckily for you, there is a one-time lvl 58 boost for TBC
servers, so you can avoid that part, at least for one character!

>There is less to do than I expected, though I could go do more WQs in
>other zones, but that seems almost entirely pointless. Also, not sure it
>is actually possible. While they show up on the overall Shadowlands Map,
>they are not showing up on the zone map, but that might be my settings
>for "World Quest Tracker". I have not gone to the zones to look.

Could well be your settings, I can see them from any zone at least. Or
it thinks none are worth showing because the rewards are rubbish lol.

>> I love Torghast as gameplay goes but sure wish they'd bothered to put
>
>I have only been in there twice. Once as part of the storyline, and once
>on a covenant quest. I found the second time confusing and odd as
>somehow I ended up leaving the instance in the middle (I though I was
>going to the next level?) and didn’t get to the "Warden Arkoban killed"
>portion. There's a lot of fiddly "pick from these three slight power
>boosts" interruptions, and I know some of those runs takes hours (a
>friend who is back to WoW for the first time in many years was boasting
>of having completed a run at some high level in "under 8 hours". Pretty
>sure that was Torghast.

Whoa, that's crazy. Guessing Twisting Corridors there (it's 3x the
usual length, and supposed to be the "hard mode"), although even so,
that's an insane amount of time, I take 35-45 mins on a regular wing
(my gear is okish now but I am a healer spec: dps specs with similar
gear will be faster), and haven't yet finished Twisting Corridors, but
the one time I tried (reached layer 15 of 18) I was in there 1.5
hours, so I guess 2 hours for a full run is about expected for those
like me who don't have overpowered combinations which cheese it and
oneshot everything. I haven't gone back because that's a big chunk of
time to set aside for something which rewards absolutely nothing if
you get bad luck on abilities and can't complete it.

>Absolutely zero chance that I will ever ever EVER sit in front of WoW
>for 8 hours.
>
>Again.

Yeah, it's way too much for a single run of anything nowadays. I'm
guessing it was a run he wasn't really geared for so needed a lot of
waiting for cooldowns and careful pulls... even so, no way. If I'm
having fun playing and time stretches out to hours, cool, but not
going into something expecting it to take that long.

>> in any rewards beyond legendary stuff, as once you max your legendary
>> there's no point going back - I'd envisaged an island expeditions
>> level of cosmetic loot dropds but nope, there's a few pets on terrible
>> droprates and that's it. Such a shame, I'd spend so much time in there
>> if they'd made it like islands... meanwhile I'm still waiting for solo
>> queue for islands so at least I could do those instead!
>
>There is a mount that is usable in The Maw, which is why my friend was
>running it over and over.

Yeah, that's available from the highest difficulty of Twisting
Corridors, I rapidly decided it's not worth it and I'd rather walk
until I reach a much better gear level. Turns out in 9.1 we can mount
in the Maw anyway once we do some story quests, great!

>Today, It looks like I have about an hour's worth of stuff to do that
>seems useful, and that instance if I decide to do that. I need a bit
>more anima so I can unlock the travel network thing, And I just unlocked
>the "Next chapter" in the covenant, but I haven't finished the previous
>one because of Torghast.
>
>WoW 9 looks like less of a time-sink, but slower progress, I am not
>convinced that's not a good trade-off. Sure, I COULD spent 8 hours in
>Toghast or all day in PVP, but that's not happening.

Yeah, about my feelings really. Less timesink but what's there doesn't
feel worth doing for the rewards once you hit a certain point, almost
right from the start I've mostly logged in, checked WQs for gear
rewards, done the calling and then logged off unless it's weekly reset
when I do a bit more, if in the mood. I actually wanted to play more
but everything was so timegated or else poor rewards that I just
didn't... oh well, gives me time for Classic, and I'm intending to sub
to ESO for a month soon and level a bit there since they just changed
the endgame levelling system - I just got sucked into Classic before I
got there lol, it'll be next when I get bored with Classic.

Lewis

unread,
Mar 20, 2021, 1:11:56 AM3/20/21
to
In message <ivka5gtsdo5kvor7t...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 17:17:08 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>>Eh, I mean I went from ilvl 102 to 140 at level 60 and replaced all my
>>gear but my neck piece (ilvl 144) so I defintiely got upgrades, just not
>>14 different helms for 10 levels.
>>
>>I am still pretty underpowered at ilvl 143, to be sure, but I really do
>>like the slower progress and it feels like item upgrades have a real
>>impact because of it.

> That's true, yeah, it does make getting an upgrade feel worthwhile.
> Also makes it really, really suck, when you get a cool piece from a
> world boss or whatever that'd be a huge upgrade... in any slot other
> than the one that dropped, because of course that's your one good item
>:-P

Yep, but while that is annoying, it isn't nearly as annoying to me as
getting a piece that is 2 ilvl higher than the piece you JUST got that
replaced a piece you got a couple of hours ago that replaced a piece you
picked up that morning.

>>> You'll get it less badly than I did, as the covenant campaign is a
>>> great way to get gear;
>>
>>The only issue so far with that, (One day!) is that there are only a
>>handful of WQs each day to do, some of them really suck, and you need to
>>do three to get the next renown level.

> Ahh yeah, forgot it's mainly on callings, yeah, I think you can get
> renown levels from dungeons or raids too as catchup, I'm not totally
> sure though as I kept mine up to date until recently (plus I'd
> generally rather do the callings anyway). I can only agree about some
> WQs sucking, too, especially when your gear is weak. Supposedly,
> they're supposed to be "longer and more involved, for more reward"
> than they were in past expansions - well they did the first bit but I
> didn't see the greater rewards yet to make them feel worth doing
> except on the rare occasion they have a gear upgrade for me.

35 anima at a time! Come on, only 2400 WQs to go before you can level up
your covenant! Fun times. Of course, most quests don't give anima.

>>And oh man, is Anima going to be a slow-assed grind, I can already tell.
>>Some of those improvements are 10K anima.

> Yep! I usually like grinds, but that one? It's ridiculously bad,
> especially as my main motivation ingame is cosmetic stuff, and that
> lot... you're talking 125k anima for one covenant alone (84k to max

I do not foresee ever changing covenants from fairland, and I will not
grind for appearances. Each of my characters has an appearance that I
set for that character and I transmog to that. My main is a black fur
worgen with a top hate and a gold braided fancy jacket and the plainest
looking bow I could find in the game. My paladin is wearing the
pre-legion into armor set (sort of a burnished bronze look) and a very
plain sword, though she changes outfits in the city into a long pink
dress that classes with her short red hair. Etc.

I did spend time picking out a look for ever character, but I nearly
never change their look once it is set.

Appearances are something that I get because I happen to get drops, not
something I erver thing "Oooo, I want that gear for how it looks". That
may be because I think most of the gear in WoW looks terrible (there is
A TREE. GROWING. ON MY SHOULDERS!!).

>>My only issues are 1) pulling too many or "oops, that was an elite with
>>6 times my health and I'm still in Broth mode". If I pay attention, it
>>goes reasonably well until my pet decides to run after something and
>>pulls 14 mobs.

> Hehe that's a story I kow well lol. Gets easier with better gear, even
> my healer spec can take 3 mobs with only moderate annoyance now but
> some elites are still very much "there's a reason this is labelled a
> group quest" for me.

But, annoyingly some labeled that way are totally undeserving of the group
tag. I know I have done at least 3 that "required" a group and I had no
problem soloing them as long as I kept healing my pet, but other with
seemingly the same requirements and about the same health are much much
herder.

>>Hard for me to say, I ran one instance and got two pieces of 158 gear
>>and a level of renown. I have a covenant quest that seems to require a
>>different instance (Says there is a WQ option, but it's not on the map).

> There'll be one somewhere,

My friend had the WQ on HIS map, nut it was not on mine. I did the
dungeon last night. No idea what was going on and well through the earth
a couple of time, but still, no issues really.

>>But I do not mind running LFG at all. The last instance the entire caht
>>log was
>>
>>Me: first time
>>tank: k

> Lol, not bad. I'm over nervous about pugs these days, the bad
> experiences stuck in the mind, as do horror stories I read on the
> forums or reddit which reinforce my expectation for it to be terrible,
> even though most probably are just like yours. Luckily I can usually
> avoid them, especially my bf and I have got fairly good at duoing
> dungeons now, our rule of thumb is if we have 30 ilvls over what drops
> there it should be fine on normal.

Very rarely there's some asshole in a PUG but either they settle down
and realize no one is reading their chat log, or they get mad at how
everyone is playing wrong and leave.

> True indeed, I just got used to progression continuing more in the
> last couple of expansions, for all the raider types hate titanforging
> it gave me reasons to continue playing and not just quit between
> patches, also gave me a way to catch up on gear a little.

> I found it very frustrating that they removed it right at the same
> time they added essentially solo-orientated content (horrific visions,
> leading into Torghast), both of which are really gear dependent, so
> content which should be great for solo people is essentially gated by
> gear not available to solo people. Don't mind slow gearing when I get
> near to normal raid ilvl, it's hiting a brick wall gearwise when
> there's still solo content I can't do that's un-fun.

>>>>I might look at Classic TBC, but I doubt it.
>>
>>> I'll play it a bit but expect vanilla Classic to remain my preference:
>>
>>Right, but I really hate Classic and will never play it. TBC made so
>>many QoL improvements that I *might* take a look at it. The only thing
>>worse than playing Wow 1.x for me would be playing WoW 1.x with the WoW
>>9.x engine and many of the "current" features, since "Classic" is
>>actually a much more limited and very wrong recreation of what 1.x was
>>like. For example, hunter pets in Classic are just as stupid and broken
>>and limited as pets in Shadowlands and nothing like pets were in WoW
>>1.x.

> My memory may well be faulty, but I don't notice any problems with my
> hunter's pet compared with how it was in vanilla (I did have a hunter

The pets simply do not behave the same. For example, I could set a pet
to tank a mob while I fought an entirely different mob. This was a basic
need in 1.x for hunters, and you cannot do that now, your pet will, just
like in current content, always switch to your target. You also cannot
use your pet to pull mobs away so that you can sneak in and loot a
chest because the current game doesn’t allow you to open anything while
in combat.

You cannot mount in combat, though that change may have been made during
1.x, so if you are in an area with a bunch of low-level mobs, you
probably cannot mount at all because your aggro radius is so large every
level 5 bunny rabbit can keep your level 60 from mounting.

> back then, although certainly, 15 years haven't kept the memory
> fresh), aside for an annoying liking for spamming Claw and so never
> generating enough focus to cast Growl, no matter how I position them
> in the actionbar, which was easily enough solved by disabling Claw
> autocast and micromanaging it more. Otherwise it has proper defensive
> mode, which is so much better than the present-day assist mode, and I
> don't notice anything else which stands out.

Oh, and the way that growl works is entirely different to. It was
basically impossible for me to ever pull aggro off my pet, I'd start
with growl and the only may my pet lost aggro was by dying.

>>Or addons that worked in 1.x and improved the base game vastly no
>>longer work because of the changes to the addon system. Or Macros. Or
>>basically every feature of the game as it was is different in a myriad
>>of subtle and inferior ways.

> Most the old addons have been recreated or replaced by newer ones

That do not work the same, cannot do the same things, and have to live
within the CURRENT LUA system and CURRENT addon restrictions.

> luckily, I think I have addons that recreate everything I had back
> then, many of which are the same addons updated (or back-dated if
> they're still alive on live). Not sure if original Decursive works,
> mind, but that always was a ridiculous cheese to one-button spam
> decurse whoever needed it, so if it doesn't, fair enough!

All the interesting bar addons from back then cannot work, all the cool
auction house addons cannot work. All the cool raid addons cannot work.

"Classic" is not WoW 1.x, it is something that sort of resembles WoW 1.x
running on a WoW 9 engine with WoW 9 restrictions.

> Yeah, it's way too much for a single run of anything nowadays. I'm
> guessing it was a run he wasn't really geared for so needed a lot of
> waiting for cooldowns and careful pulls... even so, no way. If I'm
> having fun playing and time stretches out to hours, cool, but not
> going into something expecting it to take that long.

I did Torg again and I don't like it much. It's too fiddly and you can't
tell where your going and the map is basically useless and the mini-map
doubly so. It appears freeing the spirits in there does exactly nothing,
and I guess collection phanta might seem useful, but I've only used it
to buy the semi-permanent boosts, so mostly it is pointless and having a
choice between powers for disengage (which I maybe use on a weekly
basis), aspect of the cheetah (which I never use) and more phanta is
just... great, you interrupted me for this garbage? The completely
random nature of the powers you get choices of also seems not fun, but I
haven’t done it enough to see if there is some sort of underlying
pattern.

>>There is a mount that is usable in The Maw, which is why my friend was
>>running it over and over.

> Yeah, that's available from the highest difficulty of Twisting
> Corridors, I rapidly decided it's not worth it and I'd rather walk
> until I reach a much better gear level. Turns out in 9.1 we can mount
> in the Maw anyway once we do some story quests, great!

Yay. That was the run that took him "only" 8 hours, was getting his
mount. Perhaps it took him more than one run, but I don't think so.

>>WoW 9 looks like less of a time-sink, but slower progress, I am not
>>convinced that's not a good trade-off. Sure, I COULD spent 8 hours in
>>Toghast or all day in PVP, but that's not happening.

> Yeah, about my feelings really. Less timesink but what's there doesn't
> feel worth doing for the rewards once you hit a certain point, almost
> right from the start I've mostly logged in, checked WQs for gear
> rewards, done the calling and then logged off unless it's weekly reset
> when I do a bit more, if in the mood. I actually wanted to play more
> but everything was so timegated or else poor rewards that I just
> didn't... oh well, gives me time for Classic, and I'm intending to sub
> to ESO for a month soon and level a bit there since they just changed
> the endgame levelling system - I just got sucked into Classic before I
> got there lol, it'll be next when I get bored with Classic.

I will probably play until I'm allowed out of the house and we can do
things like go to restaurants safely. The sooner the better.


--
If I were you boys, I wouldn't talk or even think about women.
'T'ain't good for your health.

Catriona R

unread,
Mar 23, 2021, 12:43:02 PM3/23/21
to
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>Yep, but while that is annoying, it isn't nearly as annoying to me as
>getting a piece that is 2 ilvl higher than the piece you JUST got that
>replaced a piece you got a couple of hours ago that replaced a piece you
>picked up that morning.

Heh, I can't say I ever find getting an upgrade to be "annoying",
maybe slightly so if I only got upgrades for one slot and have other
slots lagging behind!

>I do not foresee ever changing covenants from fairland, and I will not
>grind for appearances. Each of my characters has an appearance that I
>set for that character and I transmog to that. My main is a black fur
>worgen with a top hate and a gold braided fancy jacket and the plainest
>looking bow I could find in the game. My paladin is wearing the
>pre-legion into armor set (sort of a burnished bronze look) and a very
>plain sword, though she changes outfits in the city into a long pink
>dress that classes with her short red hair. Etc.
>
>I did spend time picking out a look for ever character, but I nearly
>never change their look once it is set.

I tend to change my main each expansion, basically when I complete
some set I like the look of, I'll use that for the rest of the
expansion (unless I get lucky and find two sets I like in less time
than that), but my alts are similar to you: pick a set and stick to
it, although likewise if I happen to complete a better one, I'll
happily switch to it.

>Appearances are something that I get because I happen to get drops, not
>something I erver thing "Oooo, I want that gear for how it looks". That
>may be because I think most of the gear in WoW looks terrible (there is
>A TREE. GROWING. ON MY SHOULDERS!!).

Hehe some items I totally agree! For me it's more the collection game:
I have no interest in raiding or pvp,so my endgame is collecting
things, mainly pets and mounts, but filling out the wardrobe is also
fun. I'll obviously never max things out, but I enjoy getting as much
as I can. Not too convinced the covenant gear is worth it though,
especially as the best looking variant of my main's set was the free
one from the questchain (which I'm using as this expansion's
"outfit"). But even if I don't get the appearances, I still want the
pets and mounts.

>> Hehe that's a story I kow well lol. Gets easier with better gear, even
>> my healer spec can take 3 mobs with only moderate annoyance now but
>> some elites are still very much "there's a reason this is labelled a
>> group quest" for me.
>
>But, annoyingly some labeled that way are totally undeserving of the group
>tag. I know I have done at least 3 that "required" a group and I had no
>problem soloing them as long as I kept healing my pet, but other with
>seemingly the same requirements and about the same health are much much
>herder.

Yeah it's not all consistent, although, I'd guess they're figuring
that soloable by hunter doesn't necessarily mean soloable by other
classes ;-)

>> My memory may well be faulty, but I don't notice any problems with my
>> hunter's pet compared with how it was in vanilla (I did have a hunter
>
>The pets simply do not behave the same. For example, I could set a pet
>to tank a mob while I fought an entirely different mob. This was a basic
>need in 1.x for hunters, and you cannot do that now, your pet will, just
>like in current content, always switch to your target.

Heh, I've never yet found a situation where I'd want to do that, so
not surprising I haven't noticed it then. Seeing as the deadzone was
still a thing in those days, I'm always going to be more effective
shooting the mob my pet is holding at range than meleeing the one in
my face (yes, yes, kiting, I know... I also suck at it bigtime and
inevitably make the situation worse by facepulling extra mobs :-P). I
guess I can see a use against ranged mobs, but it's rather situational
for me - a warlock would be another matter, as they don't have a
deadzone (although I've not seen it on my warlock either yet, I'll pay
more attention when I'm next playing that alt!).

>You also cannot
>use your pet to pull mobs away so that you can sneak in and loot a
>chest because the current game doesn’t allow you to open anything while
>in combat.

I had to look that one up to see when that change was made, seemingly
in TBC at some point so at least it'll be accurate when that comes
out. Couldn't remember for sure: I do indeed remember being able to
sap and loot a chest but then I played before 1.12 so which memories
are from when it sometimes hard to disentangle.

>You cannot mount in combat, though that change may have been made during
>1.x, so if you are in an area with a bunch of low-level mobs, you
>probably cannot mount at all because your aggro radius is so large every
>level 5 bunny rabbit can keep your level 60 from mounting.

I don't ever remember being able to mount in combat: I'd have got my
first mount around patch 1.5, admittedly I quit right after so
wouldn't remember much, and rerolled when I returned, but my 2nd
character's mount would date to 1.8, so I'd guess that was a fairly
early change.

Can't say I have your problems with aggro range: I soloed Deadmines on
my hunter (lvl 32) last night and was walking right past half the mobs
(and those tunnels are quite narrow - clearing one side alone was
plenty of space), that's like a 15 lvls difference so something is
very wrong there if you're not exaggerating enormously. Although given
your comments I doubt you've even levelled that far on Classic, it
doesn't sound your thing :-P

>> back then, although certainly, 15 years haven't kept the memory
>> fresh), aside for an annoying liking for spamming Claw and so never
>> generating enough focus to cast Growl, no matter how I position them
>> in the actionbar, which was easily enough solved by disabling Claw
>> autocast and micromanaging it more. Otherwise it has proper defensive
>> mode, which is so much better than the present-day assist mode, and I
>> don't notice anything else which stands out.
>
>Oh, and the way that growl works is entirely different to. It was
>basically impossible for me to ever pull aggro off my pet, I'd start
>with growl and the only may my pet lost aggro was by dying.

It works like that now, IF you disable autocast on anything with a
lower focus cost than Growl. Buggy, but the workaround works: my bear
holds aggro perfectly (so long as I wait for Growl cd when switching
mobs lol). The ability priority is messed up, he should wait for focus
to cast Growl if I put it furthest left on the actionbar, and doesn't,
but once I disabled Claw autocast it was fine (Bite is same focus cost
so that can stay on autocast). Definitely incorrect, I pulled up an
old screenshot of my vanilla hunter and he had Claw on autocast no
problem (interestingly he didn't have Bite at all, wonder which
approach is better out of using both, or just one lol, right now I'm
not really using Claw much but once I talent the extra focus regen it
should be more usable, but if I only take one then Bite autocast is
more efficient than manually casting Claw, for sure...)

>"Classic" is not WoW 1.x, it is something that sort of resembles WoW 1.x
>running on a WoW 9 engine with WoW 9 restrictions.

Well obviously it's not exactly the same, unless you like being
overrun by botters and hackers, it had to be redone to some extent.
The engine is different but the main experience (world, questing,
talents, abilities, gameplay in general) is 99% the same, there's very
little noticeably different, and many of the UI changes are
improvements (for example: autoloot - optional, but an accessibility
function to me, when I remember how much trouble I had with sore
fingers and wrists for YEARS after vanilla, all due to mass farming
and pickpocketing sessions without autoloot available).

The biggest differences I notice are more player-driven, boosting,
mage aoe farming, speedrunning, etc, and sadly it's not possible to
get people to unlearn 15 years of changing habits and playstyles. I'm
just glad most the tryhardism seems concentrated on the PVP servers,
it's still possible to pug fairly normally on my PVE realm.

>> Yeah, it's way too much for a single run of anything nowadays. I'm
>> guessing it was a run he wasn't really geared for so needed a lot of
>> waiting for cooldowns and careful pulls... even so, no way. If I'm
>> having fun playing and time stretches out to hours, cool, but not
>> going into something expecting it to take that long.
>
>I did Torg again and I don't like it much. It's too fiddly and you can't
>tell where your going and the map is basically useless and the mini-map
>doubly so. It appears freeing the spirits in there does exactly nothing,

Check your buffs! Each spirit (clickable ones, not the random ones
that vanish when you walk over them) gives you a 1% main stat buff,
which in itself isn't a lot but when you've freed like 20 of them in a
run, adds up.
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=324717/soul-remnants-blessing

>and I guess collection phanta might seem useful, but I've only used it
>to buy the semi-permanent boosts, so mostly it is pointless and having a
>choice between powers for disengage (which I maybe use on a weekly
>basis), aspect of the cheetah (which I never use) and more phanta is
>just... great, you interrupted me for this garbage? The completely
>random nature of the powers you get choices of also seems not fun, but I
>haven’t done it enough to see if there is some sort of underlying
>pattern.

It's mostly random, although certain rare mobs will give special ones
related to the type of mob (if you're in a zone with black ghost guys
that put crap all over the ground, you'll be very happy to find a rare
one of them, as it drops a power that makes the crap heal you instead
of damage you!). While it won't help you yet, if you reach rep levels
with Ven'ari (the Broker NPC in the cave outside Torghast) she'll sell
permanent buffs, some of which improve the powers you get, either
giving you more chocies or higher rarity choices, or letting you buy
cheap powers from the vendors inside. I'm guessing you won't find the
repgrind at all attractive though, and I don't blame you (got bored
myself before hitting max, waiting for 9.1 and less pain in the
Maw...)

Also sometimes, thinking outside the box and accepting abilities for
abilities you rarely use can be beneficial, I originally went into it
thinking half my powers were useless as they were for abilities I
don't use... then I realised maybe if I get the right combination I
should try using them. Like for me, there's one out there which makes
you deal more damage to feared mobs... eh, well that's useless when
fear breaks from damage, right? Yeah, but there's also one that makes
your fear not break so fast from damage... and then another was added
this patch which makes your fear *deal* damage (which does not break
fear), and all of a sudden I'm going to want that feared mobs take
more damage power!

Can be worth seeing how different powers interact and maybe trying
something different, although I still prefer ones which buff abilities
I regularly use, for sure.

>>>There is a mount that is usable in The Maw, which is why my friend was
>>>running it over and over.
>
>> Yeah, that's available from the highest difficulty of Twisting
>> Corridors, I rapidly decided it's not worth it and I'd rather walk
>> until I reach a much better gear level. Turns out in 9.1 we can mount
>> in the Maw anyway once we do some story quests, great!
>
>Yay. That was the run that took him "only" 8 hours, was getting his
>mount. Perhaps it took him more than one run, but I don't think so.

I'd hope it was more than one run, sheesh. You do in total have to do
8 runs of it, as the mount is a reward for level 8, but it does sound
like 8 hours for one run, yikes. Even 2 hours is too much for me when
it barely rewards anything, I'm kinda hoping they'll increase the
cosmetic/fun rewards for it, as I *want* to do Twisting Corridors, in
principle it's the kind of thing I'd love, but it's just not worth the
time at present. Fill it full of pets, toys, and sellable transmog
like island expeditions were and I'll do it much more.

>I will probably play until I'm allowed out of the house and we can do
>things like go to restaurants safely. The sooner the better.

Heh yeah, roll on full vacccination and an end to all this. I'm a
stay-at-home type anyway so it's not affected me as much as many, but
it'd be nice to just be able to go to shops or out for a daytrip
without wanting to avoid crowds (erm, any more than I usually do - I
find crowds overwhelming at the best of times, but they're not usually
a threat to my health...). Progress is going well here, but hopefully
the return to normality will be slow enough to not let it spike again,
everyone's sick of the in and out of lockdown now, lets do it right
and have it be the last time.

Lewis

unread,
Mar 23, 2021, 2:54:07 PM3/23/21
to
In message <2k2k5gdib3umll271...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>>Yep, but while that is annoying, it isn't nearly as annoying to me as
>>getting a piece that is 2 ilvl higher than the piece you JUST got that
>>replaced a piece you got a couple of hours ago that replaced a piece you
>>picked up that morning.

> Heh, I can't say I ever find getting an upgrade to be "annoying",
> maybe slightly so if I only got upgrades for one slot and have other
> slots lagging behind!

Since i hate how most of the gear in Wow looks, getting new gear means
spending money on transmog, so annoying AND expensive.

>>I did spend time picking out a look for ever character, but I nearly
>>never change their look once it is set.

> I tend to change my main each expansion, basically when I complete
> some set I like the look of

Oh yeah, I don't do sets either. Most my characters I am looking for a
clean and basic look, something that looks like something someone would
actually wear. My paladin is the only one who is wearing (mostly) set of
armor, but she's a Paladin, they're conformists.

Here are three, Rogue, Mage, and Huntardo.

<https://imgur.com/a/PWgTl7G>

The mage I changed most recently, sometime in Whatever was before Broth
when I changed her chest piece and shoulders, still the same basic look.

> Hehe some items I totally agree! For me it's more the collection game:
> I have no interest in raiding or pvp,so my endgame is collecting
> things, mainly pets and mounts, but filling out the wardrobe is also
> fun. I'll obviously never max things out, but I enjoy getting as much
> as I can. Not too convinced the covenant gear is worth it though,

Oh. I had to get a piece of the crafted legendary mail. OMG! OMG! It is
ABSURD. The shoulders are about 8 feet wide and had these red spirals
coming out of it and YOU CANNOT TRANSMOG IT! Needless to say, not
wearing that.

I wish I could remember the name of it so I could link it on wowhead.
Bone-something.

> Yeah it's not all consistent, although, I'd guess they're figuring
> that soloable by hunter doesn't necessarily mean soloable by other
> classes ;-)

My Paladin can definitely kick my hunters ass. Well, not right NOW,
she's only lvl 50, but in general given equiv gear, oh yeah.

> Heh, I've never yet found a situation where I'd want to do that, so
> not surprising I haven't noticed it then. Seeing as the deadzone was
> still a thing in those days, I'm always going to be more effective
> shooting the mob my pet is holding at range than meleeing the one in
> my face (yes, yes, kiting, I know... I also suck at it bigtime and
> inevitably make the situation worse by facepulling extra mobs :-P). I

Yeah, Hunter in wow 1.x was live and die by the kite.

>>You cannot mount in combat, though that change may have been made during
>>1.x, so if you are in an area with a bunch of low-level mobs, you
>>probably cannot mount at all because your aggro radius is so large every
>>level 5 bunny rabbit can keep your level 60 from mounting.

> I don't ever remember being able to mount in combat: I'd have got my

I checked with the friend who I started playing with a few weeks after
launch and it was definitely changed during 1.x period, but we can’t
remember when. They also had you dismount if you touched water, and
water. a Puddle.

> first mount around patch 1.5, admittedly I quit right after so
> wouldn't remember much, and rerolled when I returned, but my 2nd
> character's mount would date to 1.8, so I'd guess that was a fairly
> early change.

Wow 1.8 was a year after the game came out. But We cannot remember when
the change was made, just that it was extremely annoying. I think they
reduced the aggro radius soon after so you didn't get aggro from mobs
that were not even rendered on screen soon after?

> Can't say I have your problems with aggro range: I soloed Deadmines on

I was talking about wow 1.x, I do not play classic. I was pointing out
how Classic is very different from WoW 1.x

> my hunter (lvl 32) last night and was walking right past half the mobs

Another example of the changes inherent in using a new engine to
replicate an old game.

>>Oh, and the way that growl works is entirely different to. It was
>>basically impossible for me to ever pull aggro off my pet, I'd start
>>with growl and the only may my pet lost aggro was by dying.

> It works like that now, IF you disable autocast on anything with a
> lower focus cost than Growl.

Right, bit that is DIFFERENT than it was. That is my whole point, the
"Classic" game is not the same game it is pretending to be.

>>"Classic" is not WoW 1.x, it is something that sort of resembles WoW 1.x
>>running on a WoW 9 engine with WoW 9 restrictions.

> Well obviously it's not exactly the same, unless you like being
> overrun by botters and hackers, it had to be redone to some extent.

It's a lot more than that. the basic mechanics of the game are different
how pets work is different. how comabt works is different.

> The engine is different but the main experience (world, questing,
> talents, abilities, gameplay in general) is 99% the same

Yeah, I disagree based on the people who have played it and compared it
even to the private classic servers. It's nostalgia, not reality.

> little noticeably different, and many of the UI changes are
> improvements (for example: autoloot - optional, but an accessibility
> function to me, when I remember how much trouble I had with sore
> fingers and wrists for YEARS after vanilla, all due to mass farming
> and pickpocketing sessions without autoloot available).

We had Autoloot in wow 1.x, via an addon. And it was better since you
could configure it not to pick up garbage you didn't want.

>>I did Torg again and I don't like it much. It's too fiddly and you can't
>>tell where your going and the map is basically useless and the mini-map
>>doubly so. It appears freeing the spirits in there does exactly nothing,

> Check your buffs! Each spirit (clickable ones, not the random ones
> that vanish when you walk over them) gives you a 1% main stat buff,
> which in itself isn't a lot but when you've freed like 20 of them in a
> run, adds up.
> https://www.wowhead.com/spell=324717/soul-remnants-blessing

Ah, good to know. the anima buffs are enoughto overwhelm noticing that
slight improvement.

I have a lot of quests in there, I tried to do the second level and got
bored and ported out. It holds no interest for me at all. Right now,
none of the campaign quests are forcing me to go there, so I'm not.

> Also sometimes, thinking outside the box and accepting abilities for
> abilities you rarely use can be beneficial, I originally went into it
> thinking half my powers were useless as they were for abilities I
> don't use... then I realised maybe if I get the right combination I
> should try using them.

The problem for me is ther are too many abiilities to fit on the a
single bar, and I use a single bar (3x4) to mirror my numeric keypad.

4-5-6 are my main attacks
1-2-3 are special periodic (kill shot)
7-8-9 are AOE big hits long cooldown
Clear-=-/ are the really long cooldowns
* use quest item
- run lock
+ run lock
0 mount
. feign death

1-2-3-4 above WASD are things like heal pet, disengage, etc.

If I can't hit something with those buttons, I'm probably never hitting it in
combat.

If I could get Dominos to swap the bar display when I hit control, I would add
9 more actions on control 1-9.


--
'Now what?' it said. IT'S UP TO YOU. IT'S ALWAYS UP TO YOU.
--Maskerade

Catriona R

unread,
Mar 24, 2021, 1:11:12 PM3/24/21
to
On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 18:54:05 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <2k2k5gdib3umll271...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>>>Yep, but while that is annoying, it isn't nearly as annoying to me as
>>>getting a piece that is 2 ilvl higher than the piece you JUST got that
>>>replaced a piece you got a couple of hours ago that replaced a piece you
>>>picked up that morning.
>
>> Heh, I can't say I ever find getting an upgrade to be "annoying",
>> maybe slightly so if I only got upgrades for one slot and have other
>> slots lagging behind!
>
>Since i hate how most of the gear in Wow looks, getting new gear means
>spending money on transmog, so annoying AND expensive.

Ah lol, can see the point there then, though my approach is don't
transmog while levelling, apply when my gear is more stable, it's
usually only for a week or so anyway :-)

>>>I did spend time picking out a look for ever character, but I nearly
>>>never change their look once it is set.
>
>> I tend to change my main each expansion, basically when I complete
>> some set I like the look of
>
>Oh yeah, I don't do sets either. Most my characters I am looking for a
>clean and basic look, something that looks like something someone would
>actually wear. My paladin is the only one who is wearing (mostly) set of
>armor, but she's a Paladin, they're conformists.
>
>Here are three, Rogue, Mage, and Huntardo.
>
><https://imgur.com/a/PWgTl7G>
>
>The mage I changed most recently, sometime in Whatever was before Broth
>when I changed her chest piece and shoulders, still the same basic look.

Ah those look cool :-) I sometimes make an outfit on simple looks like
that too, looks great for a change, I think most my characters are
using regular sets at present (mainly older sets as there'snot many
newer that I like), but it's fun making a nice caster set with a good
looking robe and coordinating other pieces to go too. Glad they added
more hide armour slot options though, as I think I established there
is not one single pair of cloth gloves in the game that go with the
Primal Mooncloth robe, which I still use on my TBC-born draenei priest
for memories; annoyingly its sleeves go under even tight-fitting
gloves making the gloves very visible, glad to be able to just hide
the things now!

>Oh. I had to get a piece of the crafted legendary mail. OMG! OMG! It is
>ABSURD. The shoulders are about 8 feet wide and had these red spirals
>coming out of it and YOU CANNOT TRANSMOG IT! Needless to say, not
>wearing that.
>
>I wish I could remember the name of it so I could link it on wowhead.
>Bone-something.

Had to look it up after reading , found a picture of the full set and
lol, I TOTALLY see your point, that's hideous! Can you set it to
hidden, or does that count as transmog too? I thought the clothset was
bad lol, thankfully mine is gloves so not that visible, hadn't
realised they're not transmoggable - actually I just checked and mine
are transmogged so that's a bit odd, inconsistent there!

>> Heh, I've never yet found a situation where I'd want to do that, so
>> not surprising I haven't noticed it then. Seeing as the deadzone was
>> still a thing in those days, I'm always going to be more effective
>> shooting the mob my pet is holding at range than meleeing the one in
>> my face (yes, yes, kiting, I know... I also suck at it bigtime and
>> inevitably make the situation worse by facepulling extra mobs :-P). I
>
>Yeah, Hunter in wow 1.x was live and die by the kite.

I just went BM and had a tough old bear tank, worked fine for me in
99% of situations. I'm a bit less bad at kiting than I was then but
still far prefer not kiting lol, always irritated me that the class
epic bow quest banned pets, like, how is my "best friend" supposed to
be suddenly left out of things! Not that it mattered as I didn't raid
and never got through MC anyway, it was just theprinciple that annoyed
me :-P

>> I don't ever remember being able to mount in combat: I'd have got my
>
>I checked with the friend who I started playing with a few weeks after
>launch and it was definitely changed during 1.x period, but we can’t
>remember when. They also had you dismount if you touched water, and
>water. a Puddle.

Haha oh yeah I remember that, got rather good at learning where safe
spots to jump rivers were. I also remember it was related to model
height until an early TBC patch, when they realised gnomes couldn't
mount in Black Morass and every other race could!

>> first mount around patch 1.5, admittedly I quit right after so
>> wouldn't remember much, and rerolled when I returned, but my 2nd
>> character's mount would date to 1.8, so I'd guess that was a fairly
>> early change.
>
>Wow 1.8 was a year after the game came out. But We cannot remember when
>the change was made, just that it was extremely annoying. I think they
>reduced the aggro radius soon after so you didn't get aggro from mobs
>that were not even rendered on screen soon after?

Suppose it was a year for US players, only 9 months for us in Europe
lol, I tend to forget that bit of the timeframe. Don't really rmember
about the aggro range changes but sounds rather quality of life there
if that was common lol.

>> The engine is different but the main experience (world, questing,
>> talents, abilities, gameplay in general) is 99% the same
>
>Yeah, I disagree based on the people who have played it and compared it
>even to the private classic servers. It's nostalgia, not reality.

I reckon Blizzard's version is more likely to be closer than private
servers so comparisons between Classic and private are not
particularly valid - my own private server experience told me that
even the server widely regarded as the most accurate at that time, had
a LOT of things totally wrong with it, and anyone who's played those
extensively will have had their memories skewed regarding accuracy,
while Blizzard have an original Classic server running in their
offices to compare with. Clearly they haven't got everything perfect
but the main parts of the experience are there.

>> little noticeably different, and many of the UI changes are
>> improvements (for example: autoloot - optional, but an accessibility
>> function to me, when I remember how much trouble I had with sore
>> fingers and wrists for YEARS after vanilla, all due to mass farming
>> and pickpocketing sessions without autoloot available).
>
>We had Autoloot in wow 1.x, via an addon. And it was better since you
>could configure it not to pick up garbage you didn't want.

Heh now that is interesting! I was sure such an addon had existed but
could find no trace of it whatsoever when I searched for it when I was
on private servers. Was so sure I remembered getting one after I'd
wrecked my fingers, but it totally was not findable, all I could find
was people saying it was impossible until TBC. Guess I wasn't wrong
after all.

>> Check your buffs! Each spirit (clickable ones, not the random ones
>> that vanish when you walk over them) gives you a 1% main stat buff,
>> which in itself isn't a lot but when you've freed like 20 of them in a
>> run, adds up.
>> https://www.wowhead.com/spell=324717/soul-remnants-blessing
>
>Ah, good to know. the anima buffs are enoughto overwhelm noticing that
>slight improvement.

Yeah, it's not a huge buff but does make some difference when you find
a lot of them.

>I have a lot of quests in there, I tried to do the second level and got
>bored and ported out. It holds no interest for me at all. Right now,
>none of the campaign quests are forcing me to go there, so I'm not.

There's a longish questline involving it from Bolvar, not sure it has
much in the way of rewards but tells a bit about the story of what's
going on in there and what leads to the next patch, quite probably not
that interesting to you. Don't think it ever connects into the
covenant campaigns so you're not missing a lot otherwise.

>> Also sometimes, thinking outside the box and accepting abilities for
>> abilities you rarely use can be beneficial, I originally went into it
>> thinking half my powers were useless as they were for abilities I
>> don't use... then I realised maybe if I get the right combination I
>> should try using them.
>
>The problem for me is ther are too many abiilities to fit on the a
>single bar, and I use a single bar (3x4) to mirror my numeric keypad.
>
>4-5-6 are my main attacks
>1-2-3 are special periodic (kill shot)
>7-8-9 are AOE big hits long cooldown
>Clear-=-/ are the really long cooldowns
>* use quest item
>- run lock
>+ run lock
>0 mount
>. feign death
>
>1-2-3-4 above WASD are things like heal pet, disengage, etc.
>
>If I can't hit something with those buttons, I'm probably never hitting it in
>combat.
>
>If I could get Dominos to swap the bar display when I hit control, I would add
>9 more actions on control 1-9.

I never really stopped being a partial clicker - I have 7-8 abilities
bound, anything else I just click manually on the bar so using lesser
abilities isn't that bad for me, because I'm used to it! Does get
irritating when I have too many abilities that I want to use often and
can't get all of them bound though. I never thought of using numpad
for abilities, that's quite a good solution; I'm too used to left hand
on WASD right hand on mouse for that but if it works for you that's a
great way to easily reach more binds!

If you want to add control into the mix you could probably make macros
that swap the ability depending whether or not control is held down,
example from my own macros:

#showtooltip
/use [nomodifier] Soulstone
/cast [modifier:shift]Create Healthstone;[modifier:alt]Create
Soulstone

Should be fairly selfexplanatory, think it'd be "modifier:ctrl" for
control. Also might well be possible to get all of that in one line
now, I think I wrote it many years ago when there was a distinction
between "use" and"cast", hence the separation. I'd expect:

/use [nomodifier] Soulstone;[modifier:shift]Create
Healthstone;[modifier:alt]Create Soulstone

to work now, just haven't ever tested it so can't guarantee that.

Catriona R

unread,
Mar 24, 2021, 4:52:38 PM3/24/21
to
On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>The pets simply do not behave the same. For example, I could set a pet
>to tank a mob while I fought an entirely different mob. This was a basic
>need in 1.x for hunters, and you cannot do that now, your pet will, just
>like in current content, always switch to your target.

Just to clarify on that one: I was doing a group quest just now and
had zero problem using my pet to tank one mob while I was nuking down
a separate mob that was trying to eat the priest (who seemed to like
mind blast tanking, lol), pet at no point changed target unless I told
him to.

Lewis

unread,
Mar 24, 2021, 7:27:50 PM3/24/21
to
In message <ugqm5ghpvsqrqu8dg...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>>Oh. I had to get a piece of the crafted legendary mail. OMG! OMG! It is
>>ABSURD. The shoulders are about 8 feet wide and had these red spirals
>>coming out of it and YOU CANNOT TRANSMOG IT! Needless to say, not
>>wearing that.
>>
>>I wish I could remember the name of it so I could link it on wowhead.
>>Bone-something.

> Had to look it up after reading , found a picture of the full set and
> lol, I TOTALLY see your point, that's hideous! Can you set it to
> hidden, or does that count as transmog too? I thought the clothset was
> bad lol, thankfully mine is gloves so not that visible, hadn't
> realised they're not transmoggable - actually I just checked and mine
> are transmogged so that's a bit odd, inconsistent there!

It said it was not soulbound, so maybe after you upgrade it it binds?
Or maybe there's a time delay? Anyway, I am not using them. I put them
on the AH and bought the helm instead, then got the covenant 190 helm,
so... yeah.

>>Yeah, Hunter in wow 1.x was live and die by the kite.

> I just went BM and had a tough old bear tank, worked fine for me in
> 99% of situations.

Right, but I was running instances, and you had to be able to kite.

> Haha oh yeah I remember that, got rather good at learning where safe
> spots to jump rivers were. I also remember it was related to model
> height until an early TBC patch, when they realised gnomes couldn't
> mount in Black Morass and every other race could!

I still say there should be an achievment:

"Delete a max level gnome character and have no gnomes on your account"

> Suppose it was a year for US players, only 9 months for us in Europe
> lol, I tend to forget that bit of the timeframe. Don't really rmember
> about the aggro range changes but sounds rather quality of life there
> if that was common lol.

It's possible you never had mounting in combat. Like I said, we can't
remember when it was changed.

>>> The engine is different but the main experience (world, questing,
>>> talents, abilities, gameplay in general) is 99% the same
>>
>>Yeah, I disagree based on the people who have played it and compared it
>>even to the private classic servers. It's nostalgia, not reality.

> I reckon Blizzard's version is more likely to be closer than private
> servers

Oh no, it definitely is not. The players are WAY stronger in Classic.
Check out the discussions (complaints, enrage shitstorm) about Stitches
in Classic.

Stitches is doing the same damage, players are slaughtering him. Stitches
used to take out DOZENS of players.


> so comparisons between Classic and private are not particularly valid

The only time I was on a private 1.x server it was very accurate to 1.x.
The differences were things like missing content, not broken mechanics.

> > while Blizzard have an original Classic server running in their
> offices to compare with. Clearly they haven't got everything perfect
> but the main parts of the experience are there.

I thought that blizzard did not have the original code at all and had to
recreate it?

As for the "main parts are there" it all depends on what you think the
main parts are. For me, it is impossible to duplicate how I played then,
therefore it is not the main parts at all.

It's a bit like playing chess, but the pawns can only move one space.
Seems like a minor change, but it would change the game strategy
ENTIRELY.

> Heh now that is interesting! I was sure such an addon had existed but
> could find no trace of it whatsoever when I searched for it when I was

Blizzard broke it pretty early on, I think, and I think it was called
"Auto Loot" so will be impossible to search for, especially since there
are several current AutoLoot addons (I have no idea what they do).

> on private servers. Was so sure I remembered getting one after I'd
> wrecked my fingers, but it totally was not findable, all I could find
> was people saying it was impossible until TBC. Guess I wasn't wrong
> after all.

Blizzard considered it cheating, since first looter got all the loot.

> Yeah, it's not a huge buff but does make some difference when you find
> a lot of them.

Sigh. I got a buff three times, "Your damaging spoells and effects have
a very high change to heal you and your pet for 5% of maximum health".
So, 15% heals.

I went through that run like a buzz saw, not even stopping other than to
loot and free souls. It was the most boring experience in WoW in a long
time.

Torghast SUCKS.

> There's a longish questline involving it from Bolvar, not sure it has
> much in the way of rewards but tells a bit about the story of what's
> going on in there and what leads to the next patch, quite probably not
> that interesting to you. Don't think it ever connects into the
> covenant campaigns so you're not missing a lot otherwise.

I was intrested int eh Jaina sotry line in Broth until it stopped for
the 1 month time gate. That's the only time I've been interested in the
WOW story line enough to pay attention to it.

Something happens, Horde and Alliance start fighting again, lather,
rinse, repeat.

There was a good bit in the fairyland quest line where you have replay
some of the story from Wow previous on stage and at one point the story
is "So the Horde and Alliance went to war again" and one the npcs reacts
with something like "Heavy sigh" which pretty much sums up WoW 1-8 for
me.

Same story, different patch.

> I never really stopped being a partial clicker - I have 7-8 abilities
> bound, anything else I just click manually on the bar so using lesser

If I have to click on screen buttons in combat, something is wrong.

> If you want to add control into the mix you could probably make macros
> that swap the ability depending whether or not control is held down,
> example from my own macros:

I can do that, but I can't SHOW the right button depending on keypress.

--
"It's like those French have a different word for *everything*" -
Steve Martin

Lewis

unread,
Mar 24, 2021, 7:28:42 PM3/24/21
to
Yay, something they fixed.

--
"These are my rules, I make 'em up." ~George Carlin

Catriona R

unread,
Mar 26, 2021, 12:41:44 PM3/26/21
to
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:28:40 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <rc9n5g1u9t7vcfivb...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 05:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>>>The pets simply do not behave the same. For example, I could set a pet
>>>to tank a mob while I fought an entirely different mob. This was a basic
>>>need in 1.x for hunters, and you cannot do that now, your pet will, just
>>>like in current content, always switch to your target.
>
>> Just to clarify on that one: I was doing a group quest just now and
>> had zero problem using my pet to tank one mob while I was nuking down
>> a separate mob that was trying to eat the priest (who seemed to like
>> mind blast tanking, lol), pet at no point changed target unless I told
>> him to.
>
>Yay, something they fixed.

Yep! Glad to have confirmed that one as I always preferred the old pet
behaviour; I may not have used it a huge amount on hunter due to the
minimum range but it was great on warlock, and certainly has its uses
in groups even for me :-)

Catriona R

unread,
Mar 26, 2021, 1:36:36 PM3/26/21
to
On Wed, 24 Mar 2021 23:27:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>In message <ugqm5ghpvsqrqu8dg...@4ax.com> Catriona R <catriona...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Had to look it up after reading , found a picture of the full set and
>> lol, I TOTALLY see your point, that's hideous! Can you set it to
>> hidden, or does that count as transmog too? I thought the clothset was
>> bad lol, thankfully mine is gloves so not that visible, hadn't
>> realised they're not transmoggable - actually I just checked and mine
>> are transmogged so that's a bit odd, inconsistent there!
>
>It said it was not soulbound, so maybe after you upgrade it it binds?
>Or maybe there's a time delay? Anyway, I am not using them. I put them
>on the AH and bought the helm instead, then got the covenant 190 helm,
>so... yeah.

Hmm, that sounds like the white item, not the legendary, if it's not
bound and still possible to AH it - you need to give the white to the
runeforger guy with the other mats (and have a legendary power
unlocked for that slot) and turn it into the legendary to make it
bound. The special power once it's turned into a legendary should make
it still always better than a covenant item with no bonus, plus it's
upgradeable to higher ilvl later.

>>>Yeah, Hunter in wow 1.x was live and die by the kite.
>
>> I just went BM and had a tough old bear tank, worked fine for me in
>> 99% of situations.
>
>Right, but I was running instances, and you had to be able to kite.

Outside of UBRS last boss I never really saw much kiting in instances,
maybe hardcore groups did it more though, I mainly pugged or ran in
casual friends groups.

>> Suppose it was a year for US players, only 9 months for us in Europe
>> lol, I tend to forget that bit of the timeframe. Don't really rmember
>> about the aggro range changes but sounds rather quality of life there
>> if that was common lol.
>
>It's possible you never had mounting in combat. Like I said, we can't
>remember when it was changed.

Yeah, quite likely then,it was certainly an early change as I assumed
it'd always been that way!

>> I reckon Blizzard's version is more likely to be closer than private
>> servers
>
>Oh no, it definitely is not. The players are WAY stronger in Classic.
>Check out the discussions (complaints, enrage shitstorm) about Stitches
>in Classic.
>
>Stitches is doing the same damage, players are slaughtering him. Stitches
>used to take out DOZENS of players.

Seems more like players know more about the game. Back in vanilla, I
reached lvl 35-40 on my first character still stacking stamina because
it was the only stat I'd worked out what it did (I started off
stacking armour...!), I had my weapons wrong, all kinds of weird
talents, and generally no clue whatsoever. Oddly enough I'm much, much
more effective when I level the same class now (and was on Nostalrius
too, so no, it's not a Classic thing).

Plus a nice direct comparison: I remember, in vanilla, hitting lvl 30
on my hunter and learning Feign Death. I wandered into the Stockade to
test it out, and ended up completing the place some time later, very
pleased with myself having never expected to! Yesterday I went in
there at lvl 33, and yes, completed it, but had a lot of trouble with
the last two bosses+adds, to the point that I really could not see
myself doing it at 30. Perhaps my memory is off, I'm fairly sure I was
30 in vanilla, but maybe it was 31 or even 32... it wasn't higher than
33 though, so seems to me difficulty is about the same!

Perhaps Stitches is tuned wrong, mobs overall seem as I remember
though (based off later characters than my first, obviously...). I
genuinely don't see a difference in power other than that I as a
player know what I'm doing now: in general the harder quests are about
as hard as I remember them the second time (I rerolled that terrible
first character and actually learned how to play it second time round,
meaning those memories are a bit more useful for comparisons). Some I
have screenshots to prove my lvl when I beat a certain elite - try at
same lvl now on same class and still have a hard time, so seems about
right.

>> so comparisons between Classic and private are not particularly valid
>
>The only time I was on a private 1.x server it was very accurate to 1.x.
>The differences were things like missing content, not broken mechanics.

All mechanics were guesswork on private servers: some were definitely
wrong. Mine had one obvious bug where Consecrate did increased threat,
making paladin tanks actually very good for dungeons - obviously wrong
to anyone who remembered vanilla (although anyone who didn't may think
that's how they always were and assume Classic got it "wrong"), but
how many less obvious things were also wrong which have skewed
memories? There's a long "not a bug" list Blizzard made, often with
detailed posts where they examined the original client carefully and
note that what they've done was indeed correct and players are
remembering wrong, often related to private servers having guessed
incorrectly as to how the mechanic worked.

(And before you say "well they would say they got it right", there's
also a good few similarly detailed posts where they've carefully
examined player reports and noted that indeed they did get it wrong -
often related to "it was bugged in vanilla and didn't work the way it
was supposed to, so when we applied the formula correctly it wasn't
how it actually used to be: now we'll re-bug it so it's consistent
with the original")

>> > while Blizzard have an original Classic server running in their
>> offices to compare with. Clearly they haven't got everything perfect
>> but the main parts of the experience are there.
>
>I thought that blizzard did not have the original code at all and had to
>recreate it?

No, they found a backup of the original code and got it running on a
server; if they hadn't, they wouldn't have done Classic, I think they
said, as it'd be little better than private severs, with having to
guess and work off people's memories instead of have an actual
original game to compare with. It's just incompatible with the modern
server structure, and with modern anti-hacking etc measures, so it was
a better option to recreate it for public use.

>As for the "main parts are there" it all depends on what you think the
>main parts are. For me, it is impossible to duplicate how I played then,
>therefore it is not the main parts at all.
>
>It's a bit like playing chess, but the pawns can only move one space.
>Seems like a minor change, but it would change the game strategy
>ENTIRELY.

I can see your point, it just doesn't to me feel like that much
changed, so doesn't make anything like as much difference. Half the
changes are legit ones, as in, things that were right by 1.12, which
is what this is based on, it's just most of us spent more time in the
earlier patches than in 1.12.

>> Heh now that is interesting! I was sure such an addon had existed but
>> could find no trace of it whatsoever when I searched for it when I was
>
>Blizzard broke it pretty early on, I think, and I think it was called
>"Auto Loot" so will be impossible to search for, especially since there
>are several current AutoLoot addons (I have no idea what they do).
>
>> on private servers. Was so sure I remembered getting one after I'd
>> wrecked my fingers, but it totally was not findable, all I could find
>> was people saying it was impossible until TBC. Guess I wasn't wrong
>> after all.
>
>Blizzard considered it cheating, since first looter got all the loot.

Ahhh, no wonder if that was the case then. I thought the one I
remembered looted everything (rather slowly) one at a time, without me
having to click, perhaps it was a different one, or my memory still is
messed up and I'm not remembering it after all. I thought mine lasted
until TBC (at which point I ditched it as it was added to the
interface) but like you say, it's impossible to search for!

>> Yeah, it's not a huge buff but does make some difference when you find
>> a lot of them.
>
>Sigh. I got a buff three times, "Your damaging spoells and effects have
>a very high change to heal you and your pet for 5% of maximum health".
>So, 15% heals.
>
>I went through that run like a buzz saw, not even stopping other than to
>loot and free souls. It was the most boring experience in WoW in a long
>time.
>
>Torghast SUCKS.

Hehe. I think it's the most interesting thing in SL for me (which
doesn't necessarily mean it's great, just, it's something
different...), if only it dropped anything at all that I cared about.
Higher difficulties reduce the boredom level, although it's certainly
repetitive, the main variety is in what mix of abilities you get.

>I was intrested int eh Jaina sotry line in Broth until it stopped for
>the 1 month time gate. That's the only time I've been interested in the
>WOW story line enough to pay attention to it.
>
>Something happens, Horde and Alliance start fighting again, lather,
>rinse, repeat.
>
>There was a good bit in the fairyland quest line where you have replay
>some of the story from Wow previous on stage and at one point the story
>is "So the Horde and Alliance went to war again" and one the npcs reacts
>with something like "Heavy sigh" which pretty much sums up WoW 1-8 for
>me.
>
>Same story, different patch.

Haha yeah, that gets very boring now. I still like doing storylines
but any time Horde vs Alliance comes up it's just... not AGAIN; I so
agree with that NPC. I need to lvl my druid so I can do that
questline, but I'm waiting for the flying patch, I like being grounded
on my main for exploring the first time, but for alts, eh, give me
flying.

>> If you want to add control into the mix you could probably make macros
>> that swap the ability depending whether or not control is held down,
>> example from my own macros:
>
>I can do that, but I can't SHOW the right button depending on keypress.

The "#showtooltip" bit does that, just select the ? icon that's first
in the icons box when you make the macro and it'll show whatever icon
and tooltip is appropriate for the spell available at that time.
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