Recommended minimum raid size for old raids
coreyg3
including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
to the Old World and Outland.
--
Corey
Subsiste sermonem statim
Behemoth
there isn't a minimum though there is certain recommendations
you could probably 5-10 man ZG
Onyxia is a joke she's been 1-2 manned (it depends on the class, the
spec, and the gear)
MC I'd still say should be a 10-20 man same thing with BWL and
AQ20,40 ..... though AQ20 could probably be a 10 man if not slightly
less
Kara can be 5 manned now and some bosses even 1-3 manned
Hyjal,BT,Sunwell .... mostlikely still full raids if not near full
raids
Gruuls,Mags i'd subtract 5 people and that's a good number
Mephistophilhibbs
> Any recommendations for a minimum raid size for old raids up to (and
> including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
> to the Old World and Outland.
I did most of BWL (they'd already done up to Broodlord) a week ago
with 9 people, it was a pushover, probably could be done with three at
a push, as long as you have enough decursing. We only had 8 for
Nefarian, 7 because one died early on, no problem. Oh, I also died in
phase 1 due to being mind-controlled and I got AOE'd along with all
the draconids, but I ankhed. Even the priest class call shouldn't be a
problem, very little healing was needed.
Hoofu, 80 tauren shaman, Argent Dawn (EU)
Mephistophilhibbs
> you could probably 5-10 man ZG
I saw someone earlier saying that their pally could solo all of ZG
apart from Tiger and Hakkar. You'd probably still need mana drainage
for Tiger, and the timing still has to be right.
Rob Wynne
> On Mar 11, 1:22 pm, coreyg3 <core...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Any recommendations for a minimum raid size for old raids up to (and
>> including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
>> to the Old World and Outland.
>>
>> --
>> Corey
>> Subsiste sermonem statim
>
> there isn't a minimum though there is certain recommendations
>
> you could probably 5-10 man ZG
>
With the right classes, you can 3-man it.
> Onyxia is a joke she's been 1-2 manned (it depends on the class, the
> spec, and the gear)
>
Druids and pallies particularly used to solo her, before they nerfed her
drops.
> MC I'd still say should be a 10-20 man same thing with BWL and
> AQ20,40 ..... though AQ20 could probably be a 10 man if not slightly
> less
We've done MC recently with 15 people, and it didn't approach difficult.
AQ40 still requires a few people for some bosses (Twin Emporors,
especially).
> Kara can be 5 manned now and some bosses even 1-3 manned
>
I know a warrior who has been soloing Attuman for the mount, and a paladin
who said he can solo up to Curator before he hits an unpassable obstacle.
`
> Hyjal,BT,Sunwell .... mostlikely still full raids if not near full
> raids
>
We did Black Temple with 19 people, and it was a laugh. (Which is to say
"I can't quite imagine how hard these fights must have once been, because
they are easy with level 80s.)
> Gruuls,Mags i'd subtract 5 people and that's a good number
You can six man Mags easily. I'd not want to take less than that because of
the cube mechanics.
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2010: Jan 8-10, 2010 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
Aphelion - Original SF&F since 1997 - http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/
Catriona R
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:11:38 GMT, Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>> there isn't a minimum though there is certain recommendations
>>
>> you could probably 5-10 man ZG
>
>With the right classes, you can 3-man it.
With the right classes you can 2-man it actually ;-) That kinda has to
be a healer and a tank, but it can be done alright, I've done it on my
priest with a friend's feral druid, only problem is Hakkar where he MCs
the druid all the time and we hit the enrage timer unless I just die and
leave the druid to solo it...
>> Onyxia is a joke she's been 1-2 manned (it depends on the class, the
>> spec, and the gear)
>
>Druids and pallies particularly used to solo her, before they nerfed her
>drops.
Yep, not tried her on my druid yet but I know tank-specced druids or
pallies have no trouble with her.
>> MC I'd still say should be a 10-20 man same thing with BWL and
>> AQ20,40 ..... though AQ20 could probably be a 10 man if not slightly
>> less
>
>We've done MC recently with 15 people, and it didn't approach difficult.
>AQ40 still requires a few people for some bosses (Twin Emporors,
>especially).
3-manned MC, 2 holy priests and a feral druid... wasn't exactly what
you'd call fast but was easy enough, never any danger of wiping.
Probably 2-mannable if we'd only taken one priest, just even slower.
>> Kara can be 5 manned now and some bosses even 1-3 manned
>
>I know a warrior who has been soloing Attuman for the mount, and a paladin
>who said he can solo up to Curator before he hits an unpassable obstacle.
Again, I 2-manned the whole place with my feral druid friend, no trouble
at all - hardest part was chess tbh!
>We did Black Temple with 19 people, and it was a laugh. (Which is to say
>"I can't quite imagine how hard these fights must have once been, because
>they are easy with level 80s.)
Tried with 8, 3 of which were lvl 70... mmnope lol, got a couple of epic
drops off trash but we weren't gonna even reach the first boss with that
setup :-)
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (80 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (80 Tauren Druid)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Buinne (70 Troll Shaman)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
PV
>Again, I 2-manned the whole place with my feral druid friend, no trouble
>at all - hardest part was chess tbh!
You did Prince with two people? That must have been interesting. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
Catriona R
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:24:06 -0500, pv+u...@pobox.com (PV) wrote:
>Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> writes:
>>Again, I 2-manned the whole place with my feral druid friend, no trouble
>>at all - hardest part was chess tbh!
>
>You did Prince with two people? That must have been interesting. *
Was no problem at all, no matter how few are in the raid he doesn't
enfeeble the tank, so as long as I kept my wits about me and didn't die
to it all was fine :-) Granted we were lucky with infernal positioning
in that we never got boxed in but still worked fine.
Netherspite was more of a challenge to figure which beams absolutely had
to be covered, but it worked out (with use of a combat res after a void
zone spawned under my feet when I had very high stacks on the blue beam,
sigh... possibly could've been done with ignoring the blue beam tbh but
oh well, live and learn)
Urbin
> On Mar 11, 1:22=A0pm, coreyg3 <core...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Any recommendations for a minimum raid size for old raids up to (and
> > including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
> > to the Old World and Outland.
>
>
We managed to 4 man MC without a healer (2 rogues, 1 hunter and a feral
tank) except for the last two bosses where we brought in a healer.
> same thing with BWL
we used to do BWL @70 with about 25 people, so @80 it should be possible
with significantly less than 20.
> and AQ20
my guildies have been 5-manning AQ20 @80 for the achievment, though I
haven't been in there with them.
Cheers
Urbin
--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE)
Urbin (80), Dwarven Hunter | Surana (64), Draenei Mage
Mymule (70), Gnomish Warlock | Kordosch (62), Human Death Knight
Sunh (70), Nightelven Priest | Juran (33), Nightelven Druid
Miikka
> Any recommendations for a minimum raid size for old raids up to (and
> including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
> to the Old World and Outland.
Depends a lot on characters and gear levels. For example our main death
knight tank has soloed most of Karazan. (I think skipping Netherspite
and some other boss I can't remember.) Though he does have pretty much
best-in-slot raid gear, but I'd say that most of Karazhan bosses should
be at least 3-mannable with a tank, dps and a healer.
We tried 4-manning Hyjal once too, and everything there was pretty
doable up to Azgalor. For it you pretty much only need enough bodies to
take the Dooms. Should be doable with about 10 to 15 people.
Can't say that much about black temple. Tried Naj'entus once with 3, and
I'd strongly suggest on bringing at least 2 or more healers to that fight.
From SSC you can at least do Karathress, Morogrim and Hydross with just
4 people. But at the T5 level at least the end-bosses are mechanistically
pretty hard to underman, so I'd suggest on trying at least to grab around
20.
Just a side note, even current Sartharion is 3-mannable with no drakes
up. :) You just need a dps doing at least 2,8k dps to beat the enrage timer.
(And killing the drakes themselves can be quite a challenge to heal.)
--
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society." -Mark Twain
Zil
> there isn't a minimum though there is certain recommendations
>
> you could probably 5-10 man ZG
I think you're seriously underestimating how easy level 60/70
instances are to level 80 toons.
Zul Gurub has been solo'd, although I'm sure 2 or 3 would be better.
> Onyxia is a joke she's been 1-2 manned (it depends on the class, the
> spec, and the gear)
Not a joke, but a level 60 raid boss. 1-3 people (depending on
class/specs) shoul be enough.
> MC I'd still say should be a 10-20 man
I saw reports of MC being 3-manned at level 70 (with some difficutly,
perhaps), but at 80 3 manning should be fine.
> same thing with BWL and
> AQ20,40 ..... though AQ20 could probably be a 10 man if not slightly
> less
I'd have thought 5 or 6 would be sufficient, but i'm not speaking
from experience here.
> Kara can be 5 manned now and some bosses even 1-3 manned
Kara could be 5-manned at 70, with decent gear. 2-3 people would
be fine.
--
Zil, Level 80 NE Priest, Aman Shan're, Stormrage Europe
yoj...@gmail.com
> including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
> to the Old World and Outland.
The key here is level, as level 60's usually only contribute 10% of
what 80's contribute in an old raid. For example, a raid with 5 60's
and 5 80's is only going to be slightly over half as effective as a
raid with 10 80's. So be careful with how many low levels you want to
bring to leech off the run. That said, here is my experience:
(numbers are reported as level 80's - I run some of these almost
weekly)
ZG: Definitely 2 mannable to completion (although usually 1 will
always die on Hakkar). 3+ would make it easier, with no deaths
MC: Most of the content is clearable with 3... I've never seen Rag
killed with less than 5, but it maybe possible
BWL: Wouldn't go in with less than 10, tbh. That place is a bit less
bbq-able, and some fights still require a bit of strat. I'd still
suggest wearing the cloaks if you have them, especially the tanks.
AQ40: The real challenge in there is the twin emps. Least amount of
people we have downed them with is 10, although usually 13-15 is the
number to make the run smooth.
AQ20: Only did this once at 80 for the achievement. Went with 5, no
problems - had a death on Ossirian
Kara: Definitely 2-3 mannable, although some fights (i.e., prince) can
go on for a long time. The hardest part, as another poster mentioned,
is chess. I'm seeing my first wipes on this event as level 80.
Mags: no clue:
Gruuls: no clue
SSC: Killed Vashj with a collection of 20 from level 62 to 80. Phase 2
was a complete fustercluck. It lasted about 10 minutes while people
who hadn't been there before figured out what to do. But we had enough
healing and dps for that phase to last that long
TK: Killed A'lar and Vael with the same group as the TK group -
definitely easier than the Vashj kill. I've heard rumors of 10 80's
bringing down Kael
Hyjal: Went in with 20 and it was a complete joke up until archimonde.
I had to bail after the first attempt, but I think they eventually got
him down. I hear the first trash waves are 6 mannable.
BT: Went in with 15, and cleared the first 5 bosses. Quit because it
was late.
SP: no clue.
Catriona R
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:38:12 -0700 (PDT), yoj...@gmail.com wrote:
>On Mar 11, 1:22 pm, coreyg3 <core...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Any recommendations for a minimum raid size for old raids up to (and
>> including) level 70 content? I'd like to start organizing trips back
>> to the Old World and Outland.
>
>The key here is level, as level 60's usually only contribute 10% of
>what 80's contribute in an old raid. For example, a raid with 5 60's
>and 5 80's is only going to be slightly over half as effective as a
>raid with 10 80's. So be careful with how many low levels you want to
>bring to leech off the run. That said, here is my experience:
>
>(numbers are reported as level 80's - I run some of these almost
>weekly)
>
>ZG: Definitely 2 mannable to completion (although usually 1 will
>always die on Hakkar). 3+ would make it easier, with no deaths
Yup, Hakkar's MC is a pain so 1 will usually die there, but I've
2-manned it with a friend.
>MC: Most of the content is clearable with 3... I've never seen Rag
>killed with less than 5, but it maybe possible
It is, 2 holy priests and a bear druid worked fine and really only needs
1 healer, took ages since our dps was so low :-P
>BWL: Wouldn't go in with less than 10, tbh. That place is a bit less
>bbq-able, and some fights still require a bit of strat. I'd still
>suggest wearing the cloaks if you have them, especially the tanks.
5-mannable easily, did it just the other day - had the cloaks for tank
and offtank (fury warrior who put his tanking gear on for a couple of
the bosses), just 1 healer as well. Chromaggus was the only real problem
since my mana couldn't really keep up with the sheer amount of
dispelling needed, but we did it, just.
Btw, having everybody attuned to use the orb is a BIG plus here, only 2
of us could use it so the first wipe we had to sit around waiting for
the others who released to clear through UBRS again (which had
respawned, sigh) Luckily the ones who could use the orb were ressers so
all other wipes we told the rest to not release and wait for us to run
back.
>AQ40: The real challenge in there is the twin emps. Least amount of
>people we have downed them with is 10, although usually 13-15 is the
>number to make the run smooth.
Tried with 7, couldn't make it past the first boss, so I'd agree 10+
seems about right, if not more.
>AQ20: Only did this once at 80 for the achievement. Went with 5, no
>problems - had a death on Ossirian
Done with 6, no problems yeah, also 2-manned a few of the bosses, though
that was a touch harder.
yoj...@gmail.com
I could see 5 people succeeding if they were all talented, knew each
other, and knew BWL. Usually I run with pug BWLs (/cry), lots on newer
players and DKs going for the achievement, and not knowing a damn
thing about BWL. I've seen everything from Razorgore being nuked off
the bat and the whole room exploding, to Razorgore running around
uncontrolled for minutes. And someone always pulls Firemaw when
everyone is in LOS.
> Btw, having everybody attuned to use the orb is a BIG plus here, only 2
> of us could use it so the first wipe we had to sit around waiting for
> the others who released to clear through UBRS again (which had
> respawned, sigh) Luckily the ones who could use the orb were ressers so
> all other wipes we told the rest to not release and wait for us to run
> back.
The stupid orb nonsense is the biggest deterrent to getting a BWL run
going in the first place. They should just make everyone able to touch
the orb now, as we are two expansions removed from the content. And no
60's should be going in there to gear up. People should be getting
class items to complete sets and cool looking items. But the argument
that level 61 whatever needs that because it is an upgrade is complete
nonsense...
> >AQ40: The real challenge in there is the twin emps. Least amount of
> >people we have downed them with is 10, although usually 13-15 is the
> >number to make the run smooth.
>
> Tried with 7, couldn't make it past the first boss, so I'd agree 10+
> seems about right, if not more.
Yeah, the first boss is the second toughest boss in there if you don't
have the numbers (mind control again - noticing a pattern?). With 10,
it's still tenuous at best if you make sure to CC the MCd people and
single target dps the copy adds down ASAP. I don't like going in there
with only 10, though.
The only other iffy boss in there is Viscidus. Sometimes we flat out
have to skip him, if we don't have the necessary melee to shatter him
after he freezes.
Catriona R
Well 3 people had been there before in my group, the healer and maintank
had never set foot in the place before ;-) Worked fine though, perhaps
because it was a guild run as we knew how to work as a team, and to wait
until we'd understood the explanations given us :-)
>> Btw, having everybody attuned to use the orb is a BIG plus here, only 2
>> of us could use it so the first wipe we had to sit around waiting for
>> the others who released to clear through UBRS again (which had
>> respawned, sigh) Luckily the ones who could use the orb were ressers so
>> all other wipes we told the rest to not release and wait for us to run
>> back.
>
>The stupid orb nonsense is the biggest deterrent to getting a BWL run
>going in the first place. They should just make everyone able to touch
>the orb now, as we are two expansions removed from the content. And no
>60's should be going in there to gear up. People should be getting
>class items to complete sets and cool looking items. But the argument
>that level 61 whatever needs that because it is an upgrade is complete
>nonsense...
Yeah the orb was driving us mad, especially as we didn't clear that room
full of whelps after we killed the boss at the end of it... luckily we
realised the whelps were up before running back from the next wipe and
the druid stealthed through, otherwise we'd have had to try and 2-man it
to get back to res the others. Lucky for us we had a druid attuned to
the orb, might've been that the only one attuned was me, and I don't
much fancy fighting my way through that room solo as a holy priest ;-)
>> >AQ40: The real challenge in there is the twin emps. Least amount of
>> >people we have downed them with is 10, although usually 13-15 is the
>> >number to make the run smooth.
>>
>> Tried with 7, couldn't make it past the first boss, so I'd agree 10+
>> seems about right, if not more.
>
>Yeah, the first boss is the second toughest boss in there if you don't
>have the numbers (mind control again - noticing a pattern?). With 10,
>it's still tenuous at best if you make sure to CC the MCd people and
>single target dps the copy adds down ASAP. I don't like going in there
>with only 10, though.
Erk not more mind control? Yeah can definitely see it needing more
people then, when we tried first boss with 7 there was just no way, and
it was a good group we had too, 2 good tanks and 2 good healers.
>The only other iffy boss in there is Viscidus. Sometimes we flat out
>have to skip him, if we don't have the necessary melee to shatter him
>after he freezes.
Have to admit I know nothing about the bosses in that place, never been
there yet, it's the only one I miss for classic raider acheivement
though so will have to do it sometime. Luckily my guild leader also
wants it and he's good at organising stuff, hopefully soon I'll see it
:-)
ti...@thsu.org
> MC: Most of the content is clearable with 3... I've never seen Rag
> killed with less than 5, but it maybe possible
I cleared MC with a ret pally tanking, and myself, a resto druid
healing. Our biggest worry was Majordomo's healer adds, but it turned
out that they don't heal themselves that often.
--
// T.Hsu
Rob Wynne
> SSC: Killed Vashj with a collection of 20 from level 62 to 80. Phase 2
> was a complete fustercluck. It lasted about 10 minutes while people
> who hadn't been there before figured out what to do. But we had enough
> healing and dps for that phase to last that long
>
That was true even at level. If you can get to the end of Phase 2 of the
Vashj fight with everone alive, you're probably going to win, assuming
everyone doesn't freak out and fall apart.
> Hyjal: Went in with 20 and it was a complete joke up until archimonde.
> I had to bail after the first attempt, but I think they eventually got
> him down. I hear the first trash waves are 6 mannable.
>
We managed to one-shot Archimonde with 21 people.
PV
>We managed to one-shot Archimonde with 21 people.
15 in our case. We did the whole place in under two hours for the
achievement a couple weeks ago. *