gryphons or dragons?
James
- I did a test just like the knight ang ogre test, and all four times the dragons won. If you haven't seen that article, you line up 10 dragons on one side, than 10 gryphons on the other, and watch them fight, after two like that, you switch the sides, humans to orcs, orcs to humans.
- I have done several strength tests, peons and peasents, axa and arrow, and orcs seem to win them all, except for the archer and axe thrower, humans rule.
Sagara Wickramasekara
How did you test them? Were they both yours or one computer, one yours,
or both computer? I didn't see the knight vs. Ogre article. Did both
have the same AI? Just wondering. Maybe each side has specific orders
based on side (Human or Orc) for AI in addition to the level AIs and
attack AIs.
--
========================
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VISIT : alt.games.tie-fighter
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lee...@acsu.buffalo.edu
I do not believe that you are looking at this question from the proper
perspective. When considering, in game scenarios, which unit is more
powerful, the gryphon or dragon, knight or ogre. you have to look beyond
their own stats and look at their comrades' abilities to alter them. let
me explain.
In the Gryphon vs. Dragon debate, it is pretty easy to solve. Head to
head, no other helpers, the unit who attacks first will win, plain and
simple. They both have the same stats. But in game scenarios, we must
look farther than the unit's stats. A bloodlusted Dragon will wipe out a
Gryphon who can be healed with one full 255 mana Paladin behind him. A
hasted Dragon will almost always get the first strike on the Gryphon. An
invisible Gryphon will almost always get the first strike on the Dragon.
An Unholy Armored Dragon will almost always defeat the Gryphon. This is
what you must consider. In my opinion, in game sceanrios, they are both
effective, but one-on-one in a game scenario, the Dragon will usually win,
due to the bloodlust factor, the haste factor, and the unholy armor
factor. I believe this is the most logical way to examine the "gryphon
vs. Dragon" question.
Just my opinion.
Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Do not be fooled by the way I stagger, there's power to kill there. And
that is how you win, by appearing to lose..." --- Sam Seed, Drunken Master
John Doggett
lee...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
: I do not believe that you are looking at this question from the proper
: perspective. When considering, in game scenarios, which unit is more
: powerful, the gryphon or dragon, knight or ogre. you have to look beyond
: their own stats and look at their comrades' abilities to alter them. let
: me explain.
: In the Gryphon vs. Dragon debate, it is pretty easy to solve. Head to
: head, no other helpers, the unit who attacks first will win, plain and
: simple. They both have the same stats. But in game scenarios, we must
: look farther than the unit's stats. A bloodlusted Dragon will wipe out a
: Gryphon who can be healed with one full 255 mana Paladin behind him. A
: hasted Dragon will almost always get the first strike on the Gryphon. An
: invisible Gryphon will almost always get the first strike on the Dragon.
: An Unholy Armored Dragon will almost always defeat the Gryphon. This is
: what you must consider. In my opinion, in game sceanrios, they are both
: effective, but one-on-one in a game scenario, the Dragon will usually win,
: due to the bloodlust factor, the haste factor, and the unholy armor
: factor. I believe this is the most logical way to examine the "gryphon
: vs. Dragon" question.
Well, I think that an invisible gryphon will easily defeat a
bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon.
--
-=John Doggett=->
Ceno Arubis
But you see, once the gryphon attacks, the gryphon is no longer
invisible so the bloodlust will STILL kill it.
Ceno Arubis
http://members.tripod.com/~War2Ceno
Erik Goble
"bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon". Read that line again
over a few times. If you still don't catch it, say it out loud. If
that doesn't help maybe you could get someone else to read it for you
:). Catch it now? "...-polymorphed..." get it? aka DEAD DRAGON.
Demndred
Ceno Arubis
Heh. Sorry. No wonder I get F's on my literary tests....:)
Ceno Arubis
http://members.tripod.com/~War2Ceno
Mr Kowman
>You didn't quite read his post. He sais
>"bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon". Read that line again
>over a few times. If you still don't catch it, say it out loud. If
>that doesn't help maybe you could get someone else to read it for you
>:). Catch it now? "...-polymorphed..." get it? aka DEAD DRAGON.
about saying that a gryphen will kill a polymorphed dragon:
first off, oh gee, ya think?
now, if you wanna bring other units (mage/DK) in, then i can coil your
gryphon. that's why it's pointless to talk about the 200mana ways to kill
them cuz both sides have them. talk about lust, haste, unholy, invis and
healing
_________
Sure, there's no I in TEAM, but take out the T and the A, and what are you left with? ME
lee...@acsu.buffalo.edu
On 20 Jan 1997, Mr Kowman wrote:
> about saying that a gryphen will kill a polymorphed dragon:
>
> first off, oh gee, ya think?
> now, if you wanna bring other units (mage/DK) in, then i can coil your
> gryphon. that's why it's pointless to talk about the 200mana ways to kill
> them cuz both sides have them. talk about lust, haste, unholy, invis and
> healing
>
man.
Grand Admiral Thrawn
"Not bad or was it just luck? Let's see how well you do against a fighter
like me..." --- Fei Long
Albert Sin
In <19970120000...@ladder01.news.aol.com> mrko...@aol.com (Mr
Kowman) writes:
>
>>You didn't quite read his post. He sais
>>"bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon". Read that line again
>>over a few times. If you still don't catch it, say it out loud. If
>>that doesn't help maybe you could get someone else to read it for you
>>:). Catch it now? "...-polymorphed..." get it? aka DEAD DRAGON.
>
>
>first off, oh gee, ya think?
>now, if you wanna bring other units (mage/DK) in, then i can coil your
>gryphon. that's why it's pointless to talk about the 200mana ways to
kill
>them cuz both sides have them. talk about lust, haste, unholy, invis
and
>healing
We were talking about how dragons and griffins would do against each
other..and we got to the point that the units supporting the
dragon/grifins would effect the way they fight against each other.
NOT some multiplayer stituation.
>_________
>Sure, there's no I in TEAM, but take out the T and the A, and what are
you left with? ME
Once again, it is EM, not ME.
Edax9
>>>Well, I think that an invisible gryphon will easily defeat a
bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon.
Ummm...polymorphed dragon? Really....also, in case you didn't
know...invis. goes away after you do something offensive...
CW
___________________________________________________________
If I ever achieved perfect humility, I would be very, very proud. -Benjamin Franklin, paraphrased
Willy
Albert Sin <al-...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5c1ef8$l...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>...
>Sure, there's no I in TEAM, but take out the T and the A, and what are
> you left with? ME
> Once again, it is EM, not ME.
>
Yes, but if the he who is talking is backward, EM becomes ME.
Therefore he was right. If he puts ME ahead of team, he is backwards.
Willy
Jammer
In article <19970122014...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mrko...@aol.com (Mr Kowman) wrote:
€>dammit, this is the second time that someone has responded to my
€>signature. do ppl not understand what a signature is? it's supposed to
€>be witty, often a joke, something to make ppl remember who you are when
€>they read your stuff (oh, yeah, i remember that quote, that guy writes
€>really interesting stuff, i think i'll read it). sorry to all those ppl
€>who understand this stuff, but i did warn you in the subj. well, here it
€>is
€>_________
€>Sure, there's no I in TEAM, but take out the T and the A, and what are
you left with? ME
We understand it. It's just that your particular signature is not witty,
funny, or a good joke, and therefore, we mock it.
Your reaction is even more fun. Please, continue to post!
You might check your pants, though. Your fly is unzipped...
-------
"huh?"
--Jammer, 1992
-------
Steven Liu
Ceno Arubis (ce...@erols.com) wrote:
: Erik Goble wrote:
: >
: > Ceno Arubis wrote:
: > >
: > > John Doggett wrote:
: > > >
: > > > lee...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
: > > > : I do not believe that you are looking at this question from the proper
: > > > : perspective. When considering, in game scenarios, which unit is more
: > > > : powerful, the gryphon or dragon, knight or ogre. you have to look beyond
: > > > : their own stats and look at their comrades' abilities to alter them. let
: > > > : me explain.
: > > >
: > > > : In the Gryphon vs. Dragon debate, it is pretty easy to solve. Head to
: > > > : head, no other helpers, the unit who attacks first will win, plain and
: > > > : simple. They both have the same stats. But in game scenarios, we must
: > > > : look farther than the unit's stats. A bloodlusted Dragon will wipe out a
: > > > : Gryphon who can be healed with one full 255 mana Paladin behind him. A
: > > > : hasted Dragon will almost always get the first strike on the Gryphon. An
: > > > : invisible Gryphon will almost always get the first strike on the Dragon.
: > > > : An Unholy Armored Dragon will almost always defeat the Gryphon. This is
: > > > : what you must consider. In my opinion, in game sceanrios, they are both
: > > > : effective, but one-on-one in a game scenario, the Dragon will usually win,
: > > > : due to the bloodlust factor, the haste factor, and the unholy armor
: > > > : factor. I believe this is the most logical way to examine the "gryphon
: > > > : vs. Dragon" question.
: > > > Well, I think that an invisible gryphon will easily defeat a
: > > > bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon.
: > > >
: > > > --
: > > > -=John Doggett=->
: > >
: > > But you see, once the gryphon attacks, the gryphon is no longer
: > > invisible so the bloodlust will STILL kill it.
: > >
: > > Ceno Arubis
: > > http://members.tripod.com/~War2Ceno
: > "bloodlusted-hasted-armored-polymorphed dragon". Read that line again
: > over a few times. If you still don't catch it, say it out loud. If
: > that doesn't help maybe you could get someone else to read it for you
: > :). Catch it now? "...-polymorphed..." get it? aka DEAD DRAGON.
It's not technically dead until you kill the sheep! Polymorph doesn't count
as a kill, but killing a sheep does (go figure).
: > Demndred
:
: Heh. Sorry. No wonder I get F's on my literary tests....:)
:
: Ceno Arubis
: http://members.tripod.com/~War2Ceno
--
--Steve Internet: sl7...@u.cc.utah.edu
Web: http://www.cc.utah.edu/~sl7506/
"Gender affects how teenagers develop sexually, according to a new study."
--The Daily Utah Chronicle, 1-10-1997
Mr Kowman
>Yes, but if the he who is talking is backward, EM becomes ME.
>Therefore he was right. If he puts ME ahead of team, he is backwards.
dammit, this is the second time that someone has responded to my
Mr Kowman
yeah, i have a comment. i'm kinda annoyed (don't take this personally)
cuz i thought we had just answered this. it's cuzza the different AIs,
not cuz the guys are different. read some of the older stuff from here,
it started comparing knights to ogres. my name is in there alot. maybe
that's why i'm so annoyed. anyway, please don't think this is a flame
response to:
Hey ppl about the dragon vs gryphon debate. Ive noticed.. im not
sure why
that dragons are better than gryphons without any spells affecting either
of them! I but this huge armie of gryphons versus dragons in the exact
same
rank and order and number and the dragons won bye a mile! I didnt control
them so they didnt have a special command or anything. Also several times
when i play a game my gryphons get wasted by dragons! Even though both of
their stats are the same? any comments?
Jeffrey Wang
Steven Liu <sl7...@cc.utah.edu> wrote in article
<5c3f41$5...@news.cc.utah.edu>...
Hey ppl about the dragon vs gryphon debate. Ive noticed.. im not sure why
Stupid
what if I polymorph a dragon that is over trees or water? The sheep will
not appear.
Steven Liu
Stupid (wy...@mbox2.singnet.com.sg) wrote:
: what if I polymorph a dragon that is over trees or water? The sheep will
: not appear.
It still doesn't count as a kill. What's really sad is stat-hogs like
me going to the center of us.pud and casting Death Coils on sheep.
Each Death Coil nets me 4-9 kills. What a sad way to boost your stats. :)
: > It's not technically dead until you kill the sheep! Polymorph doesn't count
: > as a kill, but killing a sheep does (go figure).
Then again, the only stat that makes the difference after all is the one on
the top left corner.
Scott Boyd
Yes, I see.
But if you take out the E and the M, what will you be left with....
T & A.
marlon
hey, dragons attack faster than the gryphons. try it out. take a gryphon
and a dragon and have attack each other. as they enter within range, the
dragon attacks first! so technically, dragons are better than gryphons
one on one.
just tryin to be helpful,
Rayn
Brian G.
Wrong.
Gryphons and Dragons are EXACTLY the same except they just look
different. What you saw was probably just the dragon getting the first
shot, sometimes gryphons get the first shot too.
Anonymous
although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
Joe Navratil
Anonymous wrote:
> In article <32F4F6...@gac.edu>, bgl...@gac.edu wrote:
> > marlon wrote:
> > > hey, dragons attack faster than the gryphons. try it out. take a gryphon
> > > and a dragon and have attack each other. as they enter within range, the
> > > dragon attacks first! so technically, dragons are better than gryphons
> > > one on one.
> >
> >
> > Gryphons and Dragons are EXACTLY the same except they just look
> > different. What you saw was probably just the dragon getting the first
> > shot, sometimes gryphons get the first shot too.
>
> although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush...
Y'know, I get the feeling that this newsgroup could be pretty much
completely replaced with a "Best Of..." series. All we need is a
compilation of the posts up to this point, or at least until they start
repeating, on a very few topics...
-Joe
Edax9
:Y'know, I get the feeling that this newsgroup could be pretty much
completely replaced with :a "Best Of..." series. All we need is a
compilation of the posts up to this point, or at least :until they start
repeating, on a very few topics...
I understand what you are saying...but the fifteenth time around and
afterwards, its soooo much more fun to 'leak secrets' to the newbies...
CW
_____
Time waits for no man. Why should I?
Rayn
Joe Navratil wrote:
>
> Anonymous wrote:
> > In article <32F4F6...@gac.edu>, bgl...@gac.edu wrote:
> > > marlon wrote:
> > > > hey, dragons attack faster than the gryphons. try it out. take a gryphon
> > > > and a dragon and have attack each other. as they enter within range, the
> > > > dragon attacks first! so technically, dragons are better than gryphons
> > > > one on one.
> > >
> > > Wrong.
> > >
> > > Gryphons and Dragons are EXACTLY the same except they just look
> > > different. What you saw was probably just the dragon getting the first
> > > shot, sometimes gryphons get the first shot too.
> >
> > although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
no, no! trust me!! make it with the editor, make yourself have ,like,
orcs to rescue or something. make it so you both have dragons and
gryphons and have em attack each other! man, im surprised you all havent
seen this! place the gryphon far from the dragon and watch them arrive
close to each other! the dragon gets a first shot off! although,
afterwards, they attack at same speed, but trust me, drags attack first.
Rayn
ps. I'd rather gryphs than drags. healing is the best when you consider
these guys cost a bit much.
pps. RIGHT. did you try it at least?
Joe Navratil
Rayn wrote:
> Joe Navratil wrote:
> > Anonymous wrote:
> > > although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
First of all, watch your attribution. And which article you respond to.
> no, no! trust me!! make it with the editor, make yourself have ,like,
> orcs to rescue or something. make it so you both have dragons and
> gryphons and have em attack each other! man, im surprised you all havent
> seen this! place the gryphon far from the dragon and watch them arrive
> close to each other! the dragon gets a first shot off! although,
> afterwards, they attack at same speed, but trust me, drags attack first.
> [...]
> pps. RIGHT. did you try it at least?
Secondly, I can't believe I've allowed myself to get dragged into this
(I hate midterms... too many possible ways to procrastinate), but you're
wrong. If you want me to email you the test pud I set up, I will, but
I'm not going to post the binary on this (non-binary) group. It
consisted of a peasant, a gryphon, a rescuable dragon, and a walled-in
computer footman so I'd have an opponent.
I clicked on the dragon, hit 'a', double-clicked the gryphon, hit 'a',
and clicked the dragon.
The two flew all the way across the PUD at each other, and the gryphon
stopped and unloaded first.
And I still can't believe I've gotten drawn into this debate.
-Joe
Gerald Yen-Wei Chen
: > Gryphons and Dragons are EXACTLY the same except they just look
: > different. What you saw was probably just the dragon getting the first
: > shot, sometimes gryphons get the first shot too.
: although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
Does casting bloodlust on them do improve them any?
Timeout
> although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite advantage.
You can cast slow on the dragon giving them a definite disadvantage.
Round and round we go...
you can cast invisible on the gryphon allowing the gryphon the first
shot...
I believe they were initially meaning without any spells. In that case,
they should be even.
Jimmy Sanders
.
>
> : although you can cast haste on the dragons giving them a definite
advantage.
>
>
>
Marc Fuller
gera...@sfu.ca (Gerald Yen-Wei Chen) wrote:
>Does casting bloodlust on them do improve them any?
You bet. A hasted &lusted dragon is probably one of the most
deadly things in WCII. Too bad they aren't cheap.
Marc S. Fuller
CVRTI, University of Utah
Willy
Marc Fuller <marc....@m.cc.utah.edu> wrote in article
<5dfi31$6...@news.cc.utah.edu>...
> gera...@sfu.ca (Gerald Yen-Wei Chen) wrote:
>
> >Does casting bloodlust on them do improve them any?
> You bet. A hasted &lusted dragon is probably one of the most
> deadly things in WCII. Too bad they aren't cheap.
>
Not so, Mr. Marc.
A fully manna'd Mage will Polymorph that ol' Dragon in no time flat.
Willy
Michael Ford
In article
<01bc1552$1a4a26a0$0f24...@wannandrogers.wave.ca.ns.on.rogers.wave.ca>,
"Willy" <wan...@rogers.wave.ca> wrote:
A single dragon or gryphon can be effective at some stuff, like annoying
battleships, messing up the gold line, etc., but a much more "general"
purpose attack requires a group of about 5. Then sure each mage might get
ONE dragon, but the rest of them will kill off the mages and do plenty of
damage.
War2 doesn't have any silver bullets that always work. Stuff only works
when the opponent happens to be unprepared for them. If you send in 18
dragons that will wipe out the average player, but not if they have a
bunch of guard towers and archers. Most good players would never let you
have time and resources to build up even half a dozen dragons anyway.
TenthStone
Also, a good player'll never letcha do that w/o seein' ya 'fore ya get
#3. Afterthat, it's easy. Take a mage, 'n' cast blizzard (less
mana than poly) on the drags. 'specially on Kali, the player won't
be able to pull back the drags (hell, they respond badly in SINGLE
PLAYER) 'till it's too late. Pull the mage back to your defenses,
'n' let 'er rip. Yes, mages are 4 or 5 points slower than drags, but it
doesn't matter; the drag'll never even got a shot off 'till
the mage stops, 'n' that should be a LONG way 'hind your
defenses.
The realy beaut of this is it doesn't matter WHICH side ya play, it
works (it might even be better w/ orcs, 'cause ya can haste
the DK, but I don't know).
Erik Goble
Willy wrote:
>
> Marc Fuller <marc....@m.cc.utah.edu> wrote in article
> <5dfi31$6...@news.cc.utah.edu>...
> > gera...@sfu.ca (Gerald Yen-Wei Chen) wrote:
> >
> > >Does casting bloodlust on them do improve them any?
> > You bet. A hasted &lusted dragon is probably one of the most
> > deadly things in WCII. Too bad they aren't cheap.
> >
>
> Not so, Mr. Marc.
> A fully manna'd Mage will Polymorph that ol' Dragon in no time flat.
>
And a fully charged death knight will coil one in no time flat x2 :)
Demndred