Soulfrost vs Major Spellpower
ke...@spamsucks.com
it. I'm a demo-warlock who spends a lot of time spamming shadowbolt, and
there are two obvious choices:
1) Major Spellpower (40 spell dam); this is what I have on my old weapon
2) Soulfrost (54 shadow dam)
The problem is that the soulfrost enchant requires significantly more mats
than the spellpower enchant: 12 void crystals, 5 primal shadow, and 5 primal
water. This is about 300-500 more gold on my server, for only 14 more
+damage.
My instinct is that the 14 more spell damage isn't worth the extra cost. I'm
currently raiding kara, so the next logical upgrade is Prince's dagger (which
is not much of an upgrade), so I could be keeping this PVP spellblade for
quite a while.
I wish Blizzard could have made this very expensive enchant do a bit more
than just 14 more spell damage.
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lcpltom
This is the case with most enchants though. Upgrades to enchants are
costly and don't provide too much more damage than the next best
enchant. There are flasks out there that boost spell damage by 70, or
a flask that boosts shadow, fire, and frost by 80. The 80 one costs
more, but only works on 3 schools and only by an extra 10 for each.
Look at the difference between green and blue quality gems. You can
get a +8 stamina gem for like 8g or a +12 for 80g. There is a +100 hp
to chest, and a +150 hp to chest, 50 HP is about the same as 5
stamina.
The deciding factor isn't so much how much its going to add, its if
its worth it to spend that much on an enchant on a weapon you may or
may not replace. The S1 sword has no spell crit if I remember
correctly, while the dagger from prince has spell crit instead of
resilience on it. Cirt would be more useful to you in a raid
environment, especially if you spam shadow bolts. If you're happy
with your crit levels, stick with the S1 blade, but if you feel you
need more crit, you might want to wait for the dagger to drop.
Then there is also the issue of S2 gear and the possibility that S2
gear might become honor rewards in the future. S1 became honor
rewards when S3 started, could S2 gear become honor rewards when S4
starts? No one knows for sure, and as far as I know Blizzard has been
silent on this topic. If so, the season 2 blade probably has better
stats than the S1 blade, then the S3 blade might have better stats
than the S2 blade.
But, going with what we do know, you have the S1 blade and the only
possible upgrade to it is the dagger, make your decision based on
that. If you plan on taking the dagger and wish to focus on PvE more,
I'd say wait for the dagger and get Soulfrost on that. If you don't
plan to take the dagger, or want to focus on PvP more, get Soulfrost
on the sword.
Or, you could view it from my perspective. Gold is infinite, you can
always make more gold, splurge. Get them both and get both enchanted
with Soulfrost. I don't have soulfrost, but I also don't have an epic
quality weapon, and I feel its a waste to get soulfrost on an item I
know I will be replacing.
The other thing you can do, go to warcrafter, load your character and
check out your DPS on your core spells with the sword and the dagger,
and with the spellpower and soulfrost enchants. Try the different
configurations with those and see where your stats go.
lcpltom
I went through the trouble and did it myself on my own character.
Different spec and such, but the differences can at least be shown
Gladiator's Spellblade + Major Spellpower
Shadowbolt - 710 DPS
Corruption - 133.9 DPS
Curse of Agony - 123.4 DPS
Siphon Life - 26.5 DPS
Drain Life - 263 DPS
Gladiator-s Spellblade + Soulfrost
Shadowbolt - 716.2 DPS
Corruption - 135 DPS
Curse of Agony - 124.2 DPS
Siphon Life - 26.5 DPS
Drain Life - 266 DPS
My crit chance with both of those is 14.15%
Nathrezim Mindblade + Major Spellpower
Shadowbolt - 718 DPS
Corruption - 134.2 DPS
Curse of Agony - 123.6
Siphon Life - 26.5 DPS
Drain Life - 264 DPS
Nathrezim Mindblade + Soulfrost
Shadowbolt - 724.3 DPS
Corruption - 135.4 DPS
Curse of Agony - 124.4 DPS
Siphon Life - 26.5 DPS
Drain Life - 266 DPS
Crit chance here is 15.19%
And for comparison, my current weapon, Continuum Blade + Major
Spellpower
Shadowbolt - 674.7 DPS
Corruption - 127.4 DPS
Curse of Agony - 118.7 DPS
Siphon Life - 26.2 DPS
Drain Life - 251 DPS
With a crit chance of 14.06%.
I also have Shadow Mastery, so my shadow damage gets a little bit more
of a boost from that.
If I upgraded to the Mindblade with the Soulfrost enchant, it would
gain me an extra 49.6 DPS on my shadowbolts.
Devast8or
"lcpltom" <lcp...@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:a0aaf874-80f8-4db2...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
What's the URL to the site you used for this? Looks interesting.
Devast8or
steve.kaye
> "lcpltom" <lcpl...@yahoo.com> skrev i en meddelelsenews:a0aaf874-80f8-4db2...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
steve.kaye
Shammy
k> The problem is that the soulfrost enchant requires significantly more
k> mats than the spellpower enchant: 12 void crystals, 5 primal shadow,
k> and 5 primal water. This is about 300-500 more gold on my server,
k> for only 14 more +damage.
Why do you say it's more expensive than the +40 dmg enchant? Because of the
void crystals? On my server a void crystal costs half than the large
prismatic shard (33g shard around 16g the void crystal)
lcpltom
This of course varies per server. On my server, void crystals and
large prismatics cost about the same price, and since you need more
VC's for Soulfrost than LP's for major spellpower, it makes Soulfrost
more expensive. I'm kind of surprised to hear you have such cheap
void crystals, perhaps you have more raiding guilds on your server
than other servers do.
Shammy
l> void crystals, perhaps you have more raiding guilds on your server
l> than other servers do.
I have no idea why voids cost so low and even when we do heroics and DE loot
all pass voids and prefer a large prismatic shard instead, honostly I prefer
shards to voids too since I need enchants that use shards all the time and I
never needed 1 void yet. This enchant is the first 1 I read that uses voids
and I have every piece of gear enchanted on mage and on the druid.
lcpltom
Did another comparison between my current spec and gear and an SL/SL
spec with my current gear.
Currently, with a 40/0/21 SM/Ruin spec
Shadowbolt - 674.7 DPS
Corruption - 127.4 DPS
Curse of Agony - 118.7 DPS
Siphon Life - 26.2 DPS
Drain Life - 251 DPS
With a crit chance of 14.06%.
Bonus shadow damage 848
HP: 8209
With a 23/38/0 SL/SL spec:
Shadowbolt - 494.2 DPS
Corruption - 99.8 DPS
Curse of Agony - 104.7 DPS
Siphon Life - 24.2 DPS
Drain Life - 245 DPS
Crit chance of 14.06%
Bonus shadow damage of 964
HP: 9186
Keep in mind, this is definitely not PvP gear, which is what SL/SL is
designed for. Also, the SL/SL spec I found explicitly stated it
wasn't meant as a heavy DPS spec and was designed more for survival in
the arena.
I looked into this because lately my brother has been trying to get me
into arenas, and I keep resisting because I'm not very good at PvP,
I'm not specced for PvP, and I'm not geared for PvP.
This is also completely unbuffed, so no soul link, no demonic
knowledge, no master demonologist The only buffs it will let me
choose is demon armor, fel armor, and the demonic sacrifice buff. And
the fel armor buff on Warcrafter currently doesn't take talents into
consideration, as demonic aegis should buff fel armor 30%. So taking
those talents into consideration, I should be able to recover a lot of
the lost spell damage. And in groups, I can sacrifice the succy for
the bonus shadow damage.
The downside is I lose all my threat reduction, making my job in
groups a bit more difficult. I lose the increased range on my
destruction spells. I lose the decreased cast time on my shadow
bolts, and I lose Ruin on my crits. So, even though I am perfectly
happy with my current build, I may decide to switch and start doing
arena's and BG's more. One of my brothers has a 40/21/0 paladin,
which also seems to be a popular combination with a SL/SL warlock.
mbg...@gmail.com
> it. I'm a demo-warlock who spends a lot of time spamming shadowbolt, and
> there are two obvious choices:
>
> 1) Major Spellpower (40 spell dam); this is what I have on my old weapon
>
> 2) Soulfrost (54 shadow dam)
>
> The problem is that the soulfrost enchant requires significantly more mats
> than the spellpower enchant: 12 void crystals, 5 primal shadow, and 5 primal
> water. This is about 300-500 more gold on my server, for only 14 more
> +damage.
>
> My instinct is that the 14 more spell damage isn't worth the extra cost. I'm
> currently raiding kara, so the next logical upgrade is Prince's dagger (which
> is not much of an upgrade), so I could be keeping this PVP spellblade for
> quite a while.
>
> I wish Blizzard could have made this very expensive enchant do a bit more
> than just 14 more spell damage.
14 spell damage is a LOT for a boost over an old enchant. There are
gear upgrades that people will run raid for WEEKS to get ahold of that
boost stats less than 14 dmg.
If you plan to play top end raids, the whole "is it worth the cost?"
bit has no real meaning. Any decent upgrade that is soloable is worth
the cost. Now, that being said, I'm not sure you should put it on
your current weapon. Get either the dagger off prince OR the sword
off of Gruul (toss up between stats - though the Gruul sword's
graphics are way too over the top). Put Soulfrost on that and start
pwning.
On my mage I sprang for Spellfire on my prince dagger. Just as
expensive and it only adds 10 damage rather than 14.
Mike
Candido
> My instinct is that the 14 more spell damage isn't worth the extra cost.
I did about 3 sunfire on 3 differents weapons.
Every small improvement is welcome.
--
Candido
ke...@spamsucks.com
> knowledge, no master demonologist The only buffs it will let me
Are you sure? I tried it and compared the + shadow damage numbers that it
gave me with what I'm getting in the game and the numbers appeared to be
equal. Demonic Knowledge is a significant part of my spell damage, so I think
it must be taking this into account.
My DPS, with the imp summoned, with the spellblade enchanted (Major
Spellpower), and without fel armor is:
Spellpower: 867, Shadow Spellpower: 969
ShadowBolt: 608.2
CoA: 104.9
Corruption: 100.1
Immolate: 548.4
Adding fel armor increases my stats to:
Spellpower: 967 / Shadow damage: 1099
ShadowBolt: 656.6
Coa: 111.5
Corruption: 106.8
Immolate: 573.4
Summoning different pets is showing different DPS. For example, the succubus
will bring my shadowbolt DPS up to 717. This leads me to think that it is
taking demonic knowledge, master demonologist, and other talents into effect.
I'm not sure how to use the calculator for demonic sacrifice as there seems
to be no way to unsummon a pet in the calculator (i.e. I get both a
sacrificed succubus and a live succubus at the same time)
> The downside is I lose all my threat reduction, making my job in
> groups a bit more difficult. I lose the increased range on my
What about summoning an imp for 20% threat reduction with master
demonologist?
ke...@spamsucks.com
succubus
> will bring my shadowbolt DPS up to 717. This leads me to think that it is
> taking demonic knowledge, master demonologist, and other talents into
> effect.
After some more playing with it, the calculator does seem broken with respect
to Master Demonologist. The felguard's master demonologist buff is supposed
to increase all damage by 5%, however taking away master demonologist from
the talents does not change shadowbolt DPS. It shows as 652 dps either way.
It does work properly with the succubus, however. Succubus master
demonologist increases all damage done by 10%. Succy without master
demonologist shows 652 shadowbolt dps, with master demonologist has 717
shadowbolt dps.
lcpltom
There is of course other differences in gear between you and me, and
you played around with it more. I wasn't able to find the buff for
master demonologist either.
And I hadn't thought of summoning the imp for reduced threat as I am
mostly unfamiliar with demo talents. 20% reduced threat is more
threat reduction than I can get with other talents, but having the imp
out means not sacrificing the succy for the bonus damage, so it comes
at a cost of reduced damage. Also its probably not a great idea to
put Soul Link on an imp. Don't think it would even survive 1 hit. SL
has a further 5% increase in damage done.
ke...@spamsucks.com
> mostly unfamiliar with demo talents. 20% reduced threat is more
> threat reduction than I can get with other talents, but having the imp
> out means not sacrificing the succy for the bonus damage, so it comes
> at a cost of reduced damage. Also its probably not a great idea to
But at the same time, you do have Demonic Knowledge which (with all 3 talent
points) gives you 15% of your pets stam + int as spell damage. My imp has
stam=373, int=540 = 913 @ 15% = +136 spell damage (assuming I'm doing the
math correctly).
So my question is -- from a purely DPS point of view, does it ever make sense
to sacrifice a pet? For example, if I have the succubus alive, I get +127
spell damage (demonic knowledge), and a 10% damage buff (master
demonologist). With the succubus sacrificed, I get a 15% damage buff.
According to my calculations with warcrafter, I get 717 shadowbolt DPS with a
live succubus and 696 with a sacrificed one. So it makes more sense to have
the succubus standing around doing nothing but admiring her nails than it
does to sacrifice her.
Note that you're right about the original point - in both cases (alive or
sacrificed) the succubus grants more shadowbolt DPS than the imp, who only
gave me 652 dps.
The only time I really use demonic sacrifice is either with the felguard or
the voidwalker. The sacrificed felguard gives me 10% damage buff + 2%/4sec
mana regen. This is very handy for fast-paced AOE burning when I don't have
time to drink between fights (my main tank enjoys running DPS out of mana
during AOE burning). The sacrificed voidwalker gives me 2%/4sec health regen
which is good for those battles where I know I'm going to be taking a
beating. The other three pets (Succy, Imp, Felhunter) I have never
sacrificed.
Shammy
k> make sense to sacrifice a pet?
Most raid bosses have some kind of aoe that would kill your per very fast so
in that situation sacrifice is the only option if you want that buff.
ke...@spamsucks.com
so
> in that situation sacrifice is the only option if you want that buff.
Yes, but many times it works just to park the pet out of sight and it will be
at least mostly safe. For example, I do this with the felhunter when I'm
serving as 'hateful bolt tank' during the curator battle. I do swear that
I've seen him start sending flares after the felhunter though, so maybe
curator knows of this trick. :)
lcpltom
Its a 15% damage buff, so when you crit, you can potentially get more
out of it than you can with DK and MD. If you're just using dots and
drain tanking however, then crit no longer becomes an issue and
straight spell damage is key, so sacrificing your succy here wouldn't
be as good of a choice. Then of course there is the issue of how
likely is it that your pet is going to die? Fights like the 2nd boss
of SH mind controls everything, so even if you parked your succy out
of sight, shes going to be brought into the fight and possibly killed.
Of course, if FD is off cooldown, thats not as much of a problem.
Devast8or
"steve.kaye" <nos...@giddy-kippers.co.uk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:87551f81-df6a-44aa...@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> What's the URL to the site you used for this? Looks interesting.
>
> www.warcrafter.net
>
> steve.kaye
Thanks a lot, I'll have a look at that. Looks interesting.
Devast8or
Miikka
For warlock dps there is also a very in-depth spreadsheet
available from http://www.leulier.com
Mind you it's mostly aimed for lvl 70 raiders.
--
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society." -Mark Twain
chocolatemalt
"Shammy" <no...@nothing.com> wrote:
It's the same on my server, with large prismatics costing 2x or 3x that
of a void crystal. I see a lot of new void crystals getting produced in
our raids and haven't seen much use for them, so the price differential
makes sense.