Video Card for WotLK?
Orion Ryder
An Nvidea with 512K? 256 despite hearing that it is acceptable seems
like it gives a few problems here and there now.
Any special pixelization needed on the card.
What is the card that 4 out of 5 doctors recommend?
Wife will begin bugging me soon if I dont get her PC upped and ready.
And for sure I am going to have to get a better video card for the
VISTA PC that I have that has such bad lag in Shat that I find it
quicker to log out and go use another PC to take care of house keeping
in Shat.
Decisions, decisions.
Three cheers for WotLK!
OH! OH! OH!
Orion
Peter Knutsen
> A good one?
>
> An Nvidea with 512K? 256 despite hearing that it is acceptable seems
> like it gives a few problems here and there now.
WTF?
The reason that online games like WoW and EVE survive (and generate
large profits) is *because* the system requirements are modest. I'd be
extremely surprised if WotLK can't run well on a 128 MB graphics card.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
bazza
"Orion Ryder" <orion...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:296307c7-bba1-4134...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
are the requirments going to be any different than current WoW ?
Pete B
>
> > Orion
>
> are the requirments going to be any different than current WoW ?
>
If you enable the new shadow system it requires a lot more out of the
card.
John Salerno
news:296307c7-bba1-4134...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>A good one?
This one is excellent, and cheaper than ever:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130318
Polarhound
They are current generation, performance in solid.. and they are only
$150 for the 512mb model.
Here's a review excerpt from HardOCP.com. Keep in mind, the street
price has gone down since this was written:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyNCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
The great thing about the Radeon HD 4850 is that it is only a lower
clocked and lesser memory version of the Radeon HD 4870. It still
contains the full 800 stream processors and 40 texture units. The core
frequency is reduced to 625MHz, and instead of GDDR5 it uses GDDR3, but
still 512MB of it. The memory frequency is set at roughly 2GHz,
providing 64GB/sec of memory bandwidth. The other great thing about this
video card is that it is priced at $199, and you should surely see that
price fall in time. The Radeon HD 4850 is a single slot video card and
requires only one 6-pin power connector and is rated at 110W maximum
board power. Both video cards support CrossFireX fully.
...
Move over GeForce 8800 GT, a new player is in town for the sub-$200 crowd.
VisionTek Radeon HD 4850
Let’s start with the VisionTek Radeon HD 4850, because for $199 this
thing packs a punch. In Crysis we found the Radeon HD 4850 gave us a
gameplay experience that was far better than the GeForce 8800 GT or
Radeon HD 3870 X2. We were able to play with higher resolutions and
higher in-game settings. In Assassin’s Creed we also found a much better
gameplay experience than the GeForce 8800 GT and even the GeForce 9800
GTX. We were able to take the game to 2560x1600 with the Radeon HD 4850!
Yes, 2560x1600 gaming on a $199 video card. In Age of Conan we were able
to run with Bloom enabled, plus most of the settings at their highest
values at 1600x1200. This provided a better experience than the GeForce
8800 GT and Radeon HD 3870 X2 which we had to turn Bloom off.
We are very excited to see a brand new video card in the $199 domain
that simply smokes the previous generation in terms of the gameplay
advantage provided. Not only that, but it is an AMD ATI GPU based video
card doing it!
mbg...@gmail.com
engine that WoW always has, so it will run on a fairly modest card
(when I first started playing I was on a Radeon 9000 Pro and it was
plenty playable). I'm a tinkerer at heart, so I've been from that
first card, to a Geforce 6600GT, to a 7600GT, to an 8600GTS, and now
to a 9600GT (I've also used the 7300 LE for a time on my Mac and a
7200 Go on my laptop). Only major change was that between the 6600GT
and the 7600GT I upgraded monitors too, so my screen resolution went
up from 1280x1024 to 1680x1050 which is slightly more demanding. All
were perfectly playable, but the if you're buying a new card anyways
the 9600GT is a great option. I if I turn off frame syncing I'll
normally get 75-ish FPS out in the game world with fairly high detail
levels (with frame syncing on framerate is capped at your refresh rate
which for me becomes 60 FPS, but I leave it on normally as I get less
image tearing that way). It runs about $115 or so these days if you
have a PCIex16 capable system (most made in the last couple years
are). If your still limited to an AGP based card, then your options
are a lot more limited. The old 6600GT was my last AGP based card -
as said it played well for me but it is a bit dated for a new card
purchase.
Mike
Orion Ryder
Thanks, now I know the PC my wife uses needs a new crad, it has an
Nvidea 5500 at this time and it has both types of slots.
The Vista PC I am on has a chip for video and I want to get a card
instead. I'll have to look and se what kind of sltos it has.
I assume that the 9600GT has a fan? I almost bought her a 9250 the
other day but decided to look into things a little longer.
The VISTA PC with the chip generally has problems in Shat - major
suckage on the FPS. I actually have to switch PC sometimes to do
things there. I am hoping a good card turns thigns around for me.
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
> Thanks, now I know the PC my wife uses needs a new crad, it has an
> Nvidea 5500 at this time and it has both types of slots.
>
> The Vista PC I am on has a chip for video and I want to get a card
> instead. I'll have to look and se what kind of sltos it has.
On-board video is usually very, very basic, so yeah, a discrete card
will do a lot for you. You just have to make sure you get a card with
a little muscle as the very, very cheap cards are effectively the same
as the onboard video - nothing really wrong with that as they're
generally not meant for (much) gaming, but just be aware of it.
Just make sure that you check reviews and benchmarks of any card you
buy. Video RAM (ie, a "256MB card") is a horrendously poor method of
gauging performance which I've seen some people rely on - all that
states is how much textures a card can handle and WoW isn't a
particularly texture heavy game anyways. Always check the chip itself
- and those results can surprise you sometimes. For instance a
Geforce 7300 series (of which there are several submodels like the LE,
GS, and GT) is generally faster than the equivalent Geforce 8400
series, despite the generation (7 vs 8) and class (300 vs 400) being
higher on the latter.
> I assume that the 9600GT has a fan? I almost bought her a 9250 the
> other day but decided to look into things a little longer.
Yes, all the 9600GT's that I've seen have had a fan. Not sure if your
preference is for one with or without - it has tradeoffs either way.
Fanless chips are normally slower performing parts - good for non-
gaming machines (such as home theather or office PC's) because they
draw less power and the loss of the fan does decrease the noise from
the system a bit - I've got that 7300LE I mentioned earlier running in
a homemade DVR/MythTV box I setup and it's great as a fanless card. On
the other hand, the higher performing chips will often need more
elaborate cooling setups which virtually always include a fan.
> The VISTA PC with the chip generally has problems in Shat - major
> suckage on the FPS. I actually have to switch PC sometimes to do
> things there. I am hoping a good card turns thigns around for me.
Should be fine after a graphics card upgrade IMHO. Not sure on your
processor speed and main system RAM which will have some impact on
performance as well (though not as much as a good graphics card), but
in most pre-built computers the graphics card IS the weak link as far
as gaming goes.
My GUESS is that if you have a Vista PC, if it has any dedicated
graphics slot, it'll be PCIex16, but naturally check it first. The
only thing I'd worry about is that sometimes integrated systems will
leave off the graphics slot entirely and all their included slots will
either be PCI (regular old version - a little shorter than a PCIex16)
or PCIex1 (very short little slot about an inch long - not to be
confused with the similar looking but older CNR or AMR slots though -
if it's white you're probably fine, but if it's a short brown or black
slot then it's probably not a PCIe).
Now, if you ARE stuck with PCI or PCIex1 slots only, they DO make
graphics cards for those slot types too, but they're not the same
level as the "proper" cards. Just glancing at Newegg the fastest
regular PCI video card I see is an ATI Radeon 2400 HD Pro, and the
fastest (and only, actually) PCIex1 card I see is the Radeon x1550.
Both would probably be a step up from your onboard video, but they
cost as much as much faster cards - you basically are paying for the
the niche of improving the graphics in a system that really wasn't
built with that in mind.
Mike
C J Campbell
Every now and then someone asks a question like this and I think --
man, I run this game on a laptop... :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
mbg...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Every now and then someone asks a question like this and I think --
> man, I run this game on a laptop... :-)
Laptops these days can have discrete graphics chips though - my laptop
has a Geforce 7200 Go for example that's not too bad. Laptop display
panels also often (though not always) run at a much lower resolution
than their desktop counterparts, meaning that it takes less processing
power to drive those displays. My laptop for example runs at 1280x800
whereas my desktop is at 1680x1050.
So it can be done on a laptop (I play WoW on my laptop too when I'm on
the road), but often times you'll need a better laptop to do so well,
and the experience between the two is night and day. Under heavy load
in a raid my laptop will get 7-12 FPS. Playable, but a little
jerky. My current (primary) desktop rig running a better image hasn't
encountered a situation yet that will drag it below 40FPS, and usually
it's capped out at 60.
Mike
Orion Ryder
I bring my laptop home from work and use an external HD to double box
next to the VISTA PC and also so my kids and I can play next to one
another and group.
The laptop works better than all the others. As a matter of fact
sometimes in Shat I have to log out of the VISTA Pc and into the
laptop to do things and it actually saves a lot of time.
The only problem with the laptop is no NUMLOCK so I am stuck holding a
key down or two mouse buttons when I journey far.
Orion
C J Campbell
Ah. My laptop is a two year old MacBook Pro, so it has the old ATI
Radeon 1600 in it with 256 megabytes of memory, driving the display at
1680 x 1050. I don't know what Apple will be putting in their next
generation MacBook Pros (those who claim to know probably don't, and
those who do know aren't saying), but I will probably upgrade then.
As I do more and more professional photography I keep looking at a
desktop with maybe the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, but that would certainly
not be because it would be good for World of Warcraft. Anything more
than the 8800 GT would probably be severe overkill for photography.
Actually, the 8800 GT would probably be far more than I would ever
need. In any event, I keep bumping up against the limits of my video
card now with some of the editing that I am doing. Probably I need more
just plain old RAM more than anything else, though.
Now, my son's system has been wired to his projection home theater
system, so when he plays World of Warcraft he is practically living it!
We do not have a room suitable for a projection home theater (either
too small or too stuffed with 'stuff' or just too bright), but it could
be fun to try World of Warcraft on a large plasma screen or something
like that. Hooking up my laptop to an ordinary Toshiba LCD HD TV,
though, bogged the system down something fierce, not sure why, and the
TV's resolution was awful. It would take some experimentation to get it
right.
BLMX
> key down or two mouse buttons when I journey far.
In the event you're *not* joking, remap the auto run key.
I like Shift+W, quite intuitive since you're used to pressing W
already.
J. Cochran
It also depends upon the laptop. I recently got my first laptop because
I was going on a 5 month TDY assignment and couldn't stand the thought
of 5 months without WoW. As things turned out the Gateway P-7811FX
laptop became available the week prior to my deciding to get a laptop.
Let's just say that it's a very sweet laptop for playing WoW. My FPS
is usually somewhere between 56 and 60 FPS and that's at maximum
resolution and all the eye candy turned on.
And yes, I'm aware you can run WoW on a much less capable laptop, on
a previous trip I borrowed a friends laptop and played WoW on it.
Got about 12 to 18 FPS with a lot lower resolution and near minimal
eye candy. Playable, but not fun.
--
The Venture Co: Crisell (64 Gnome Warlock), Flolyna (63 Human Warrior),
Alassaria (64 Druid), Being (64 Dwarf Hunter), Lory (64 Human Paladin),
Trinalie (63 Gnome Mage), Kincann (64 Dwarf Rogue),
Mysa (64 Draenei Priest), Kathelone (63 Shaman)
Orion Ryder
Not jokiing but very lazy.
I'd want to use something like PgUp
Orion
John Salerno
----
I have my autorun key mapped to my side mouse button, so I just click with
my thumb and I'm on the move. :)
Catriona R
Me too, really easy :-)
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (70 Undead Priest)
Eilnich (70 Blood Elf Warlock)
Buinne (70 Troll Shaman)
Tairbh (64 Tauren Druid)
Balgair (70 Human Rogue)
Naomh (70 Draenei Priest)
Rosad (70 Human Warlock)
Sealgair (70 Dwarf Hunter)
Beag (60 Dwarf Paladin)
mbg...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Ah. My laptop is a two year old MacBook Pro, so it has the old ATI
> Radeon 1600 in it with 256 megabytes of memory, driving the display at
> 1680 x 1050. I don't know what Apple will be putting in their next
> generation MacBook Pros (those who claim to know probably don't, and
> those who do know aren't saying), but I will probably upgrade then.
Yeah I have been looking at Mac Pro's (the workstations) a bit
lately. I've already got a G4 PowerMac as well as a homemade hacked
Mac running at home, both of which I enjoy (I'm a programmer by trade
so I've been having a lot of fun learning Mac's Cocoa toolkit - just
little toy programs at the moment but I'm looking at trying to develop
some more serious business apps to fill some niches on the Mac).
> As I do more and more professional photography I keep looking at a
> desktop with maybe the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, but that would certainly
> not be because it would be good for World of Warcraft. Anything more
> than the 8800 GT would probably be severe overkill for photography.
> Actually, the 8800 GT would probably be far more than I would ever
> need. In any event, I keep bumping up against the limits of my video
> card now with some of the editing that I am doing. Probably I need more
> just plain old RAM more than anything else, though.
Um, I'm not sure what you're talking about here :). The differences
in graphics cards affects 3D rendering speed - so if you're doing
digital modeling, then yeah, faster video card is better, but
photography is square in the 2D segment, so any card capable of
displaying at native res is fine for photography - a $35 Geforce is
every bit the video card as a $500 one for those purposes (actually
until LCD's with DVI inputs were so common many people would search
far and wide for ancient Matrox G200's and G400's to do photography
work on - they were slow as molasses on 3D but they had great RAMDAC's
and so the analog output was the most accurate of any consumer level
card) ;). Raw system ram on the other hand, as you mention at the end
of your post, IS a major thing for photoshop (as is processor speed
for the more advanced filters). You'd be much better off spending
your extra monies on that :).
Mike
John Salerno
news:6kffg9F...@mid.individual.net...
>>I have my autorun key mapped to my side mouse button, so I just click with
>>my thumb and I'm on the move. :)
>
> Me too, really easy :-)
Yeah, pretty much the first thing I did when I reinstalled the game. :)
BLMX
>
To each his own. With your hand on WASD, the pinky rests on Shift.
Hard to get easier than that - unless you don't use movement keys at
all.
Notmyrealname
>Thanks, now I know the PC my wife uses needs a new crad, it has an
>Nvidea 5500 at this time and it has both types of slots.
you could check the manual before going for expensive hardware
particularly on older systems
an x16 physical slot doesn't necessarily provide copper to all x16 links
Orion Ryder
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:296307c7-bba1-4134...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >A good one?
>
> This one is excellent, and cheaper than ever:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130318
This thing it says for interface
PCI Express 2.0x16
Is this pretty much a statndard PCI slot that was used 3 or 4 years
ago or is this a bigger requirement such that it means something
different than just plain old PCI?
This does look like a good card I jsut have to make sure that it will
fit into the PCI slot that my wife's PC has.
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
> This thing it says for interface
>
> PCI Express 2.0x16
>
> Is this pretty much a statndard PCI slot that was used 3 or 4 years
> ago or is this a bigger requirement such that it means something
> different than just plain old PCI?
>
> This does look like a good card I jsut have to make sure that it will
> fit into the PCI slot that my wife's PC has.
>
> Orion
No - it's pretty much a completely different type of slot - truthfully
they should have called PCI Express something other than PCI because
it's confusing.
PCI slots are the old ones that are, as you note, from several years
ago. They were for a while the video card slot before giving that
role up to the dedicated AGP slot and being relegated to peripheral
slots primarily (though there were some video cards still made for PCI
as many integrated systems had PCI slots but no AGP).
PCI Express (often you'll see it expressed as PCIe) is a much newer
expansion format that's designed to replace both old-style PCI and AGP
slots. The slots generally come in x1 and x16 flavors (though on
server motherboards you can also have x4 and x8 slots). x1 slots are
the new peripheral slots to be used for TV tuners, sound cards,
network cards, etc. They CAN be used for video, but I've only ever
seen one video card come out for the x1 variant. The x16 slots are
meant for video cards and is a replacement for AGP slots. This is
what that graphics card linked uses (along with almost all newer
cards). Most higher quality (and newer) motherboards will have at
least 1 of these, and some gaming specific motherboards will have 2
that you can use to install 2 video cards for better performance.
Just as a tid-bit too, the PCIe cards are all downward compatible to
lower requirement PCIe cards. By that I mean that a x16 slot can take
a x16, x8, x4, or a x1 card. A x1 is limited only to x1 cards.
So if she is limited to a standard PCI slot then you're much more
limited in upgrade options.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161238
That's about the best regular PCI card I see on Newegg, but you're
paying a premium there for the older PCI interface. That $115 card
could probably be matched by a $50-60 PCIe easily, so at that point
you can almost grab a motherboard and cheap processor (dual core
Celeron's are around $50 right now and compatible motherboards are
down around $40).
Before you go that route though check for an AGP slot. Depending on
her system it might have one of those (they're from the same "era" as
regular PCI), and though you'd still be limited, it wouldn't be as
much on that.
Mike
Orion Ryder
It does have an AGP slot, that is what the Nvidea 5500 is in right
now. I must have neglected to mention that.
Orion
John Salerno
---
This thing it says for interface
PCI Express 2.0x16
Is this pretty much a statndard PCI slot that was used 3 or 4 years
ago or is this a bigger requirement such that it means something
different than just plain old PCI?
---
No, a PCI Express x16 slot is longer than the regular PCI slot. Here's an
image so you get an idea:
http://www.karbosguide.com/books/pcarchitecture/images/828.jpg
The black one is PCIe. Usually motheboards only have one of these (although
higher performance ones have two for dual GPUs). Here's an image with a mobo
with two:
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-136-157-02.JPG
Anyway, you'll have to have that specific slot to use the card (which is
excellent, I just got it in March when I built a new PC and I ran Oblivion
and NWN2 on full settings with absolutely no problems). Hopefully her
computer has one already (it was introduced in 2004).
mbg...@gmail.com
> It does have an AGP slot, that is what the Nvidea 5500 is in right
> now. I must have neglected to mention that.
You're in a little better shape then :). I thought that her existing
graphics might have been integrated into the motherboard (Nvidia has
been big into integrated systems lately so a lot of computers will
have integrated Geforce "chips", even though they're actually part of
the Northbridge).
The ATi Radeon HD3850 is shown in several AGP versions on Newegg, and
it is a fairly good performer from what I can see. Since it is a
legacy slot it does cost slightly more than better performing PCIe
cards (the cheapest one I see on Newegg is $129), but that's about the
limit of what I think you're going to get out of an AGP slot. Still a
LOT faster than any Geforce 5000 series card though :).
Mike
Orion Ryder
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Perhaps I will be able to pop this one into the VISTA PC I have. Much
newer PC and I'm willign to bet it has that type of slot. I'll ahve to
check.
Thanks
Orion
Orion Ryder
I'd really like to give her as MAX as possible of an upgrade that the
system will allow.
Out of curiosity is there a better one for more $$. I'd be willing to
pop a few extra $$ down. I'm sure that one is great but just want to
cover more bases if possible.
So an 8800 is out of the question due to the PCI normal slot in the
PC?
BTW I have a friend or two in my guild who might be reading these
posts and give me some input so I might be constantly throwing more
comments in and asking more questions that might shed mroe light for
me and them as as well.
Although I can be modestly tech minded with PCs there are generally
long periods of time between the moments I pull mine apart and work on
them so I usually have some catching up to do ny the time I end up
having to pull the covers off of them.
Thanks again
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
> On Oct 1, 10:03 am, "mbga...@gmail.com" <mbga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 9:33 am, Orion Ryder <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > It does have an AGP slot, that is what the Nvidea 5500 is in right
> > > now. I must have neglected to mention that.
>
> > You're in a little better shape then :). I thought that her existing
> > graphics might have been integrated into the motherboard (Nvidia has
> > been big into integrated systems lately so a lot of computers will
> > have integrated Geforce "chips", even though they're actually part of
> > the Northbridge).
>
> > The ATi Radeon HD3850 is shown in several AGP versions on Newegg, and
> > it is a fairly good performer from what I can see. Since it is a
> > legacy slot it does cost slightly more than better performing PCIe
> > cards (the cheapest one I see on Newegg is $129), but that's about the
> > limit of what I think you're going to get out of an AGP slot. Still a
> > LOT faster than any Geforce 5000 series card though :).
>
> > Mike
>
> I'd really like to give her as MAX as possible of an upgrade that the
> system will allow.
>
> Out of curiosity is there a better one for more $$. I'd be willing to
> pop a few extra $$ down. I'm sure that one is great but just want to
> cover more bases if possible.
There are various versions of the HD3850 that I see listed at various
prices, but I think the HD3850 is about the best chip you're going to
get there. They all look to have roughly the same specs, except that
one is listed at $202 that is the same as the rest except factory
overclocked from 668Mhz to 720Mhz. Personally since it's just an
overclock (which can be easily done yourself if you're interested -
depending on the card you can just use a control panel slider to up
the core clock rate) I don't think it's worth the extra money.
> So an 8800 is out of the question due to the PCI normal slot in the
> PC?
Yeah - all of the 8000 series cards that I'm aware of require PCI
Express.
> BTW I have a friend or two in my guild who might be reading these
> posts and give me some input so I might be constantly throwing more
> comments in and asking more questions that might shed mroe light for
> me and them as as well.
Sure, I love talking hardware :).
> Although I can be modestly tech minded with PCs there are generally
> long periods of time between the moments I pull mine apart and work on
> them so I usually have some catching up to do ny the time I end up
> having to pull the covers off of them.
Honestly I'm close to the same these days. When I was a teenager I
could tell you which chip steppings of a processor were the best for
overclocking, which brands of heatsinks would kept it the coolest,
knew the performance levels of every graphics chip on the market,
etc. These days with work and all I've calmed down a lot. I still
tinker quite a bit and build lots of systems, but I'm not as much as
into pushing them as hard/fast as I possibly can anymore. Back then I
upgraded my processor/motherboard about every 3-4 months. Now I might
upgrade my processor once a year at most, and a motherboard will last
me 2 to 2.5 years. Still fun for me, but not like it once was.
Mike
John Salerno
Perhaps I will be able to pop this one into the VISTA PC I have. Much
newer PC and I'm willign to bet it has that type of slot. I'll ahve to
check.
---
Probably. If it has Vista, I'm sure it has a PCIe slot. They're somewhat
standard now, AFAIK, and I'm guessing that PC can't be too old if it came
preinstalled with Vista. I mean, you didn't *intentionally* install Vista,
did you!? ;)
Notmyrealname
On Oct 1, 10:03 am, "mbga...@gmail.com" <mbga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 1, 9:33 am, Orion Ryder <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It does have an AGP slot, that is what the Nvidea 5500 is in right
> > now. I must have neglected to mention that.
>
Take the motherboard manual in when you buy, if you (still) have it.
>I'd really like to give her as MAX as possible of an upgrade that the
>system will allow.
>
>Out of curiosity is there a better one for more $$. I'd be willing to
>pop a few extra $$ down. I'm sure that one is great but just want to
>cover more bases if possible.
>
>So an 8800 is out of the question due to the PCI normal slot in the
>PC?
What can become a problem with cramming later more powerful cards
in older systems is much higher power demands from the power supply and
more heat to get rid of.
Your stable system can go unstable.
You may also find the massive heatsinks and/or fans occlude other slots
or otherwise simply won't fit.
Always ready with a positive outlook :-)
A friendly techtroll at the local computer store is worth cultivating far
more than searching for the cheapest possible price.
Matt
> >So an 8800 is out of the question due to the PCI normal slot in the
> >PC?
>
> What can become a problem with cramming later more powerful cards
> in older systems is much higher power demands from the power supply and
> more heat to get rid of.
Also more powerful cards will waste quite a bit of their potential if
the CPU is slow. Fastest available card for AGP is Radeon HD3850, but
since most motherboards with AGP slot support previous generation of
CPUs, this card is overkill for them. I'd guess Radeon X1950Pro is
highest card that makes sence for older platform and still it's way
too expensive compared to new PCI-E cards.
--
Regards
Matt
Orion Ryder
Orion Ryder
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Isn't a 350 watt power supply pretty much the max needed?
I thought these 3850s have a fan on them?
Orion
Orion Ryder
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Gads! I was upset when I went to the store to buy a new PC for the
wife and all they had was VISTA. She started on the VISTA PC because
the one she was using was not working. After several weeks in the shop
they told me it was the power supply. So I bought a new poower supply,
put it in and gave it back to her. She did not like the VISTA so I
took over that one and moved our third PC to another desk for back
burner usage. Some day that one will need an upgrade as well.
The VISTA looks pretty but with the god awful lag in Shat and even
partially in other places I am goign to pop a card in instead of using
the video chip.
If that one ends up running awesomely the wife might end up with it
and I will be relagated to the one she is now using.
Orion
Orion Ryder
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you sure the 4X/8X AGP for those cards will fit the slot that is
in my PC?
BLMX
> partially in other places I am goign to pop a card in instead of using
> the video chip.
For what it's worth, my wife has been running Vista & WoW flawlessly.
John Salerno
---
Gads! I was upset when I went to the store to buy a new PC for the
wife and all they had was VISTA.
---
If you're interested, you can always buy an OEM version of XP:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511
It's the same as the regular version, just does not come with the box,
instructions, all that stuff that you don't need anyway! It's the kind of
disc you get when you buy a new PC (for reinstallation). It's much cheaper
than the "regular" version.
Technically when you buy OEM you are supposed to prove you are building a
new PC (by buying some other piece of hardware like an HDD or mobo), but I
ordered it from Newegg before I ordered my other components and they never
needed any proof.
Orion Ryder
>
> - Show quoted text -
I did some more research.
It looks like the 4x/8x card will work with an AGP 2.0.
Given the age of this PC it is likely that it has an AGP 3.0 in it.
I can't tell from the system specs as all it lists is "AGP" but from
what I researched it seems unlikely that it has a 2.0 and even if it
did the card should work.
Gads, I hate having to get this technical.
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
> Isn't a 350 watt power supply pretty much the max needed?
Depends on what you're running. I have a 650W power supply in my
Windows system, and 500W units in my other two desktop systems ;). A
lot of the power hungry cards won't be so much of a draw on your
wattage though, as they will be a draw on the slot power. In those
cases, even in newer systems, a seperate power lead will be needed.
Older power supplies don't have this special video card power lead,
but almost all of the cards come with an adaptor to convert over a
standard disk drive lead to one.
In general, I think if you're running a single hard drive and optical
drive, then you're probably fine if it's a GOOD 350W. Power supplies
are something that I really don't like to skimp on, as a flaky one can
lead to an unstable system. On any actual desktop system I build for
myself these days I usually plan on $125-150 just for the power supply
(even though you can find them for $10-15 these days).
It sounds stupid, but a great way to tell a good power supply from a
bad one is how much they weigh. Pickup a cheapo 300W and it feels
featherweight. Pickup a nice quality one and it feels like a couple
bricks in your hand :). I'm sure the cheapo guys will wisen up to
this eventually and just start sticking in weights, but so far they
don't seem to have caught on and it still works as a good (basic)
measure :).
> I thought these 3850s have a fan on them?
They do, but I'm not sure where you're going with that. What would
the significance of the fan be?
As to the slot types, here's the jist of it: (it's confusing, but I'll
do my best :))
If the card will PHYSICALLY fit into the slot, then you're good. AGP
8x cards will scale back to 4X mode when inserted into a 4X slot, and
AGP 4X will scale back when inserted into 2X or 1X slots.
However, there are various versions of the slots/cards. To simplify
it, early AGP slots (and cards) such as 1X and 2X had a notch a few
centimeters in the FRONT of the edge connector.
Later slots like 4X and 8X moved the notch to the BACK. So an 8X card
won't fit into a 2X slot because it's notched differently. Many AGP4x
cards however, were notched in BOTH locations, so they'd fit the old
or the new slots. The later cards did away with this and only fit the
newer slot types.
That said, since this machine is carrying a 2.8Ghz CPU, I'd bet money
that it's a later slot type. These really early slots to be worried
about were common in the 400Mhz - 1.3Ghz era. Many years ago. If
you want to make sure though, just pop the case open and look at the
slot (not the card itself though, as a 5000 series is almost certainly
notched in both places). Slot notch in back, good. Front notch,
bad :).
As to CPU driving the card, that's not really universally true, and
either way a 2.8Ghz CPU will drive any card quite well. It all
depends on the bottleneck. While at really low resolutions (say,
640x480) your CPU may bottleneck your framerates before your graphics
card, as the resolution and complexity go up, the requirements of your
graphics card go up MUCH faster than your processor. It doesn't take
much processor at all to drive WoW, and at higher resolutions your
video card will usually be the bottleneck - even a fairly modest
processor will be fine with cycles to spare while the video card works
it's little butt off :).
Mike
mbg...@gmail.com
> For what it's worth, my wife has been running Vista & WoW flawlessly.
I am too actually. Don't get me wrong there are some annoying things
about Vista, but I've disabled most of them (I'm running without the
Aero and with the old Windows 2000 theme and such).
Put it this way, it's a Microsoft OS and that alone carries a lot of
flaws in design, philosophy, etc, but it's no WORSE in my mind than
XP :).
I also have the game running fine on my Mac, as well as my Linux
machines, but my guild's Vent server isn't setup to support mac
clients and I haven't felt the need to pressure them to change it
since I do have the windows machine for gaming anyways.
These days my general usage pattern is Mac for normal usage and video
editing, Windows for gaming, Linux for programming. I suppose I also
use Linux for my entertainment needs since all my videos I access
using a MythTV (Linux based) box I setup.
Mike
Orion Ryder
I am learning mroe than I want to here but that is great... I guess.
Yeah I know now that I have to turn off the PC and pull out the
existing card so I can see if the slot is 1.5v, 3.3v or universal.
It looks like the 3850 that I saw at egg would fit in the 1.5 and
universal. I have a feeling the AGP slot is universal but need to
verify.
I mentioned the fan because he mentioned "heat".
At any rate I have a feeling that this is the final upgrade that I am
going to be able to make to this PC for the wife with its current
motherboard in there.
But I have a feeling that after I pop in a card on my VISTA instead of
using the chip that came with it, that it will be running so great
that she is going to want that one moved to her PC spot and I will end
up with the one she is using. We shall see.
Wife's rule!
An ambiguous statement to say the least.
OH! OH! OH!
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
> I mentioned the fan because he mentioned "heat".
Ah. I see. The excess heat he mentioned would be case heat - the card
on the fan will keep the air circulating across the card's heatsink
but that hot air is basically just cycling within your case. You need
adequate case fans to keep the air inside the case itself flowing
adequately. If it shipped with much cooler running components then
there's a chance that it might not have adequate cooling for hotter
running ones, but that's usually not a major issue.
Overall, as long as you have a decent 80mm+ intake/front and exhaust/
rear fan going, then you should be fine. In a pinch you could
probably even get by with just a good exhaust fan. A lot of gaming
rigs have fairly elaborate cooling setups (I'm using a Raidmax
Smilodon case which has got 2 120mm Fans and 3 80mm fans just for case
ventilation), but they're often not really necessary, and can be
annoying due to the extra noise they generate.
Mike
Notmyrealname
> What can become a problem with cramming later more powerful cards
> in older systems is much higher power demands from the power supply and
> more heat to get rid of.
> Your stable system can go unstable.
> You may also find the massive heatsinks and/or fans occlude other slots
> or otherwise simply won't fit.
> Always ready with a positive outlook :-)
> A friendly techtroll at the local computer store is worth cultivating far
> more than searching for the cheapest possible price.
>Isn't a 350 watt power supply pretty much the max needed?
>I thought these 3850s have a fan on them?
The older a psu the more the components can be degraded
each case actual will vary but notionally you should consider a psu rating
drops about 5 to 10% a year, not counting mega dustbunnies disrupting
cooling air
Some 350 rated can barely rate 275 effective new, it depends more on what
power
it can supply to the different voltage outputs, which takes most and just
how
well regulated it is at that load. Lose regulation , smoothness of supply,
and things can go random.
with say 1 gig ram , a single 2.8 with a 80 gig 5400 hd and extras
with a 5500 you could be pulling (say) 250 at peak and the old psu is happy
a 3850 would add ~ 80W ramp it to the 330-350 mark
even if enough power is available the regulation could break down
due to load or misdirected heat and the psu goes marginal.
******
Note just warnings for your consideration not dire predictions
If you don't have a convenient exchange or return point
it _could_ be a waste and _could_ lead to problems
or it could be just fine.
******
Just check dimensions and specs for card fit and return/exchange policies.
I will happily file and solder and nibble chunks out of new
and recent machines with ready supply of replacements
but for old reliable friend of the family machines I tend to suggest
if it aint broke...
Is the machine serviceable?
what would be the emotional , $ and inconvenience cost of stuffing it?
Orion Ryder
Here is the VISTA PC I have
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/prodinfoCategory?lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&product=3340227
It has a PCI Express x16 slot so it should be able to take an 8800 (I
think)
What I can't understand is why this PC has such the awful FPS in Shat.
Or other places sometimes as well for that matter.
It has 1 GB RAM. The video is integrated.
Could a mere upgrade in RAM do the trick instead?
Orion
Orion Ryder
> "Orion Ryder" <orionry...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Question - if it is at 250 and the 3850 will add 80, this is taking
into consideration that removal of the older card drops the 250 to a
lower amount? So essentially the 3850 takes more than 80, it adds 80
more than whatever the 5500 adds? wow.
So if I get into also adding in a new power supply then that ups the
cost even more.
The inconvenience is that at this time I have the resources to upgrade
but not purchase a new machine.
If I could keep this PC working for another year I would have no
problem with buying another one next year.
I would hate to tell my wife that she would have to use this as is for
another year.
Orion
Matt
> It has a PCI Express x16 slot so it should be able to take an 8800 (I
> think)
>
> What I can't understand is why this PC has such the awful FPS in Shat.
> Or other places sometimes as well for that matter.
>
> It has 1 GB RAM. The video is integrated.
>
> Could a mere upgrade in RAM do the trick instead?
Yep - you can put all the new video cards in it (PCI-express 16x will
support everything there is now).
If you have integrated video card, most likely it doesn't have its own
memory, but uses your main RAM. So separate card will free some RAM
too.
As for ram - difference between 1GB and 2GB is nice, especially with
Vista - 2GB and new video card should give you very large difference.
Shatt is heavy on PCs as it has very large visibility field. Older
cities were designed with turns and tunnels that separated visible
areas and made it all smoother.
--
Regards
Matt
Notmyrealname
On Oct 2, 12:45 pm, "Notmyrealname" <bl...@blank.com> wrote:
>
> Is the machine serviceable?
> what would be the emotional , $ and inconvenience cost of stuffing it
>Question - if it is at 250 and the 3850 will add 80, this is taking
>into consideration that removal of the older card drops the 250 to a
>lower amount? So essentially the 3850 takes more than 80, it adds 80
>more than whatever the 5500 adds? wow.
Just a guess/example, check it yourself, I could be reading the wrong
numbers.
The max figures are what count, and that will depend how hard driven they
are by the cpu and what is being done by the card.
>So if I get into also adding in a new power supply then that ups the
>cost even more.
It may not be necessary,
Heat is one of my paranoid buttons, it can get hot here.
If in doubt just add more fans, you can run anything with enough fans :-)
Just don't ever turn them off if you can't stand to keep a finger on
what they are cooling.
I have boxes of them in the garage stripped from literally dozens of older
machines
I have to add 2 or three fans to get rid of the burning metal smell from
later model cards in summer.
>The inconvenience is that at this time I have the resources to upgrade
>but not purchase a new machine.
Then you can't really afford to lose the current machine
Take it to someone knowledgeable who can eyeball it, we can't
give any guarantees here.
In a major city ? Looked at computer hardware auctions?
Usually they have no guarantee beyond your own onsite test but
sometimes decent prices for reasonable machines to play with.
Good for spares if nothing else.
e.g.HP 2.8g 80g p4HT with xp and reinstall cd $AUS100-150 ($US0.82)
more or less depending on memory and other extras.
that is cheap for here compared to new, you may find different
Luck of the draw ,just got a 3.2 D with xp, pciecard and dvd burner
for $170,
also dirt cheap for here, ymmv
flakey intermittent ram , new ram and runs wow quite nicely.
>If I could keep this PC working for another year I would have no
>problem with buying another one next year.
>I would hate to tell my wife that she would have to use this as is for
>another year.
That's the problem with the younger generations, always want it now, can't
wait for better and cheaper next year .
There is bleeding edge and broke and there is scabbed over old curmudgeons
who
loan others the money to buy bleeding edge.
Then a couple of years on I get to buy your old stuff dirt cheap.
:-)
mbg...@gmail.com
> That's the problem with the younger generations, always want it now, can't
> wait for better and cheaper next year .
In all fairness, given technology, there's ALWAYS better and cheaper
coming next year. Next year when you get the better for cheaper
there's better and cheaper in the pipeline lined up for the next
year. It's all a matter of when it's worth it to you to stop waiting
and buy what you want ;).
Mike
Orion Ryder
Well I think I am going to go with this for a card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131090
and this for a power suplly:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148027
I'm figuring I have to mail away for the card due to its age and might
as well grab the power supply while I am at it. The power supply looks
like the standard size box.
Told my wife it will be a little upgrade for her over the 5500 she
has.
Hope this works.
Thanks for all the help.
Orion
mbg...@gmail.com
power supplies but it looks like it's gotten mostly good reviews so
far. It's also got the two vans on it which should help your case
ventilation a bit.
Mike
C J Campbell
> On Sep 30, 2:21�pm, C J Campbell <christophercampb...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Ah. My laptop is a two year old MacBook Pro, so it has the old ATI
>> Radeon 1600 in it with 256 megabytes of memory, driving the display at
>> 1680 x 1050. I don't know what Apple will be putting in their next
>> generation MacBook Pros (those who claim to know probably don't, and
>> those who do know aren't saying), but I will probably upgrade then.
>
> Yeah I have been looking at Mac Pro's (the workstations) a bit
> lately. I've already got a G4 PowerMac as well as a homemade hacked
> Mac running at home, both of which I enjoy (I'm a programmer by trade
> so I've been having a lot of fun learning Mac's Cocoa toolkit - just
> little toy programs at the moment but I'm looking at trying to develop
> some more serious business apps to fill some niches on the Mac).
>
>> As I do more and more professional photography I keep looking at a
>> desktop with maybe the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, but that would certainly
>> not be because it would be good for World of Warcraft. Anything more
>> than the 8800 GT would probably be severe overkill for photography.
>> Actually, the 8800 GT would probably be far more than I would ever
>> need. In any event, I keep bumping up against the limits of my video
>> card now with some of the editing that I am doing. Probably I need more
>> just plain old RAM more than anything else, though.
>
> Um, I'm not sure what you're talking about here :). The differences
> in graphics cards affects 3D rendering speed - so if you're doing
> digital modeling, then yeah, faster video card is better, but
> photography is square in the 2D segment, so any card capable of
> displaying at native res is fine for photography - a $35 Geforce is
> every bit the video card as a $500 one for those purposes (actually
> until LCD's with DVI inputs were so common many people would search
> far and wide for ancient Matrox G200's and G400's to do photography
> work on - they were slow as molasses on 3D but they had great RAMDAC's
> and so the analog output was the most accurate of any consumer level
> card) ;). Raw system ram on the other hand, as you mention at the end
> of your post, IS a major thing for photoshop (as is processor speed
> for the more advanced filters). You'd be much better off spending
> your extra monies on that :).
>
> Mike
Okay, thanks for the input on that. I do want to do some light
cinematography editing, though, and I do a lot of slide shows. Would a
better graphics card help with that?
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
C J Campbell
> In article <2008093007562175249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>,
> C J Campbell <christoph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2008-09-23 11:30:23 -0700, Orion Ryder <orion...@hotmail.com> said:
>>
>>> A good one?
>>>
>>> An Nvidea with 512K? 256 despite hearing that it is acceptable seems
>>> like it gives a few problems here and there now.
>>>
>>> Any special pixelization needed on the card.
>>>
>>> What is the card that 4 out of 5 doctors recommend?
>>>
>>> Wife will begin bugging me soon if I dont get her PC upped and ready.
>>>
>>> And for sure I am going to have to get a better video card for the
>>> VISTA PC that I have that has such bad lag in Shat that I find it
>>> quicker to log out and go use another PC to take care of house keeping
>>> in Shat.
>>>
>>> Decisions, decisions.
>>>
>>> Three cheers for WotLK!
>>>
>>> OH! OH! OH!
>>>
>>> Orion
>>
>> Every now and then someone asks a question like this and I think --
>> man, I run this game on a laptop... :-)
>> --
>> Waddling Eagle
>> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> It also depends upon the laptop. I recently got my first laptop because
> I was going on a 5 month TDY assignment and couldn't stand the thought
> of 5 months without WoW. As things turned out the Gateway P-7811FX
> laptop became available the week prior to my deciding to get a laptop.
>
> Let's just say that it's a very sweet laptop for playing WoW. My FPS
> is usually somewhere between 56 and 60 FPS and that's at maximum
> resolution and all the eye candy turned on.
>
> And yes, I'm aware you can run WoW on a much less capable laptop, on
> a previous trip I borrowed a friends laptop and played WoW on it.
> Got about 12 to 18 FPS with a lot lower resolution and near minimal
> eye candy. Playable, but not fun.
That is a nice laptop, all right. But what I really want to do is run
WoW on my iPhone. ;-) (When the iPhone was first introduced, there were
people who were posting photos on the Internet of their iPhone
'running' WoW.)
mbg...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Okay, thanks for the input on that. I do want to do some light
> cinematography editing, though, and I do a lot of slide shows. Would a
> better graphics card help with that?
Generally not for your standard type of video editing (moving and
combining clips/audio, etc). Now if you plan to use something like
Maya or Blender or the like in order to add 3D rendering (say you want
to add in a digital Toy-Story-esque character to a scene for special
effects) then the video card will make a big difference, but unless
it's 3D oriented one card is pretty much as good as another. The
RAMDAC used to be a major factor for photo/video editing, but with the
general shift to DVI outputs the RAMDAC is generally not important
(since for most users it now goes unused).
Mike
C J Campbell
Well, I guess that settles it. Thanks.
C J Campbell
Just read an interesting rumor on Mac Rumors (where else?). Several
sources are saying that the next generation of MacBook will have the
NVIDIA MCP7A chipset, basically the GeForce 9XXXX video card.
Now that could be a pretty good World of Warcraft laptop.