Will FF8 U.S.A. Version be mod-chip protected as jap one?
Matt Benson
there are hundreds of posts of people selling illegal copies alone should
tell you that pirating IS becoming a big problem here. I don't think Square
has officially confirmed it though.
Matt
Katzenjamma{KoK}
day of release or maybe even before. Same thing happened with FF8j.
On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:30:45 -0400, "Matt Benson"
<Benso...@email.msn.com> babbled:
Fear is your only god.......
Remove "nospam" to reply...
Andy Borne
> Read subject.
>
>
1. doesn't matter.
2. because this message was posted to more than two groups it is considered
'spam'. My policy on spam: "Back off, the dog eats strangers" -Shadow from
FF6/3us.
jake
>Read subject.
>
That is what I heard, so you better get a stealth chip or take it out.
KickBanMe
Alan Yeung
hKiDrEaMz
Thats an article about the US version of Final Fantasy 8 mod-lock out.
KickBanMe <dm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rr4c3l...@corp.supernews.com...
> I heard it will be, but I dont believe it.
>
Omni
wrote:
>Karl wrote in message <7os02t$5ko$1...@news.mclink.it>...
>>Read subject.
>>
>That is what I heard, so you better get a stealth chip or take it out.
or u can just buy an asian PAR for $15 and use the codes when they
come out.
>
Brian Glick
> Read subject.
I'd be very, very surprised if it was mod-chip protected. As far as I
know, none of the reviewables or previewable betas sent out to mags
have had the protection scheme.
-Brian
fish!
> I heard it will be, but I dont believe it.
>
> Karl <md9...@mclink.it> wrote in message news:7os02t$5ko$1...@news.mclink.it...
> > Read subject.
> >
> >
>
>
>
no it won't be. read it at www.pgn.com
--
"Choose Again" - Aenea 'The Rise of Endymion'
Angel C. Little
> Read subject.
Now I can understand this for backup purposes (which we all have a right
to having one of when we buy a game LEGALLY), the fuss about the
mod protection. But for pirating, Sony/EA/Square has every right to protect
their investment. FF8 is going to be a masterpiece, I'm buying it the second
I can. :)
--
Angel C. Little
"Don't mind me, I'm making an ass of myself again"
Planet Angel http://planetangel.cjb.net
Robert Jerome http://robertjerome.cjb.net
Edson Hiroshi Aoki
way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing, but
in this alternative, considering the taxes and the great value
difference between Brazil and U.S.A currency, the price will increase at
least 250%. So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely no comercial
interest.
Edson Hiroshi Aoki
ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br
Neal Evan Wilson #i
<ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote:
ũI'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
ũway for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing, but
ũin this alternative, considering the taxes and the great value
ũdifference between Brazil and U.S.A currency, the price will increase at
ũleast 250%. So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
ũcountries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely no comercial
ũinterest.
ũ
psst... yeah, you. You might want to hold those views, but you might not
want to blurt them out so blatently. People might get upset. You don't
want to upset People, do you?
Neal Evan Wilson
To see my real .sig, go to http://www.execpc.com/~wilcafe/.../.sig
This post has been demonically mastered for optimal mental and physical disturbance.
HPL
Révolte!
If i have a mod chip and want to buy the game...
I couldnt play it because, from what i've heard, even the original discs
dont play if you have a chipped PSX....
And if you look at the number of pple having a chip in.... thats a good move
to not put in the anti-chip code...
Well, my 2 cents
Matt Benson
even thought about this until recently with all the comments from Europe,
and now Brazil...
Matt
DELETETOE...@altavista.net
Well, I don't think Brazil has manufacturing plants that make PSX games, so
they most likely import every game. Add that and currency exchange rates and
you may end up paying a pretty penny for even Castlevania: SOTN.
Mark Androvich
<37B846EA...@dcc.unicamp.br>...
> I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
So explain how this is ethic (sic) again? You mean ethical, right?
You have two options-- one legal (import), one illegal (copy). You chose
the illegal option because the legal one costs more. This is no different
than any other pro-theft argument-- it is too expensive, therefore stealing
it is okay. WRONG! Take your sorry excuses for illegal and unethical
behavior elsewhere.
Now, pardon me while I go steal a car. I'd buy it, but it is too
expensive...
Mark
Otto
<ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote:
>I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
>way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing,
I'd like to sympathize, but there's all kinds of things that aren't
marketed in the US that I can only get by having them imported.
Just because it's difficult to get something legally doesn't mean it's
suddenly all right to do it illegally.
Commodore Otto
Russ Williams
> I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched
> comercially.
AIUI, Brazil is under SCEE's domain, so you can just
get the Spanish version.
> The only way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy,
> or by importing,
So, you admit you have a legal alternative...
> but in this alternative, considering the taxes and the
> great value difference between Brazil and U.S.A
> currency, the price will increase at least 250%.
And? Last I heard, the UN didn't consider video games
to be a basic human right...
> So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
> countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely
> no comercial interest.
Except for the trivially obvious fact that, although Square
aren't selling in Brazil, if you imported a copy, they'd have
made a sale. So, basically, you're denying them a sale,
just because you don't want to pay a bit extra for an
import.
Anything you can't afford, you're allowed to steal?
Wow. I'm convinced.
---
Russ
Terance & Philip
Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote in message
news:37B846EA...@dcc.unicamp.br...
> I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
> way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing, but
> in this alternative, considering the taxes and the great value
> difference between Brazil and U.S.A currency, the price will increase at
> least 250%. So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
> countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely no comercial
> interest.
>
> Edson Hiroshi Aoki
> ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br
Erland Andreassen
>>but in this alternative, considering the taxes and the
>>great value difference between Brazil and U.S.A
>>currency, the price will increase at least 250%.
>to be a basic human right...
So if the price increased 250% on the games in the UK too you wouldnt copy but
still buy? I haven't mod'ed my PSX so I have to buy the games I want, I don't
want to mod it either. But if the prices here in Norway suddenly increased
with 250% I would start to seriously think about it...
>> So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
>> countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely
>> no comercial interest.
>Except for the trivially obvious fact that, although Square
>aren't selling in Brazil, if you imported a copy, they'd have
>made a sale. So, basically, you're denying them a sale,
>just because you don't want to pay a bit extra for an
>import.
250% increase a bit extra?
DeepT
barman..
> The problem was....
>
> If i have a mod chip and want to buy the game...
> I couldnt play it because, from what i've heard, even the original discs
> dont play if you have a chipped PSX....
>
> And if you look at the number of pple having a chip in.... thats a good move
> to not put in the anti-chip code...
>
> Well, my 2 cents
I would like to pose the question, If the game has chip-detection - will
a native UK original work on a native UK chipped machine?
--
__________________________________
-DeepT
ICQ: 35787861
deept@.SPAM.BLOCK.norsystems.co.uk
__________________________________
Edson Hiroshi Aoki
>
> Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote:
> > I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched
> > comercially.
>
> get the Spanish version.
>
First, I don愒 remember seeing an spanish version for FF7 and Xenogears.
And if they even exist, and I never have heard about them, it愀 because
they never appeared here (all FF7 packages sold here are imports).
Second, I don愒 know to speak Spanish, but Portuguese. In fact, while in
Brazil many people know well English, probably less than one percent
know even a little about Spanish.
> > The only way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy,
> > or by importing,
>
> So, you admit you have a legal alternative...
>
Would you buy a PSX for US$ 600,00 and FF8 for US$ 200,00? Do you think
the "legal alternative" is always fair?
> > but in this alternative, considering the taxes and the
> > great value difference between Brazil and U.S.A
> > currency, the price will increase at least 250%.
>
> And? Last I heard, the UN didn't consider video games
> to be a basic human right...
>
Video games ARE a basic human right... at least for me, hehehe!
> > So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
> > countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely
> > no comercial interest.
>
> Except for the trivially obvious fact that, although Square
> aren't selling in Brazil, if you imported a copy, they'd have
> made a sale. So, basically, you're denying them a sale,
> just because you don't want to pay a bit extra for an
> import.
>
Err.. a "bit" extra?
Edson Hiroshi Aoki
ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br
Rhinoa Heartilly
> If i have a mod chip and want to buy the game...
> I couldnt play it because, from what i've heard, even the original discs
> dont play if you have a chipped PSX....
> And if you look at the number of pple having a chip in.... thats a good move
> to not put in the anti-chip code...
Hmm.. the thing is this. Sony doesn't want people to have their
machines chipped. It doesn't help them in the least as the main
reasons for chipping a machine in the first place are for:
1) Playing imports.
2) Playing "backups".
While the import playing is really just a gray area type thing.. the
"backup" section isn't. Piracy IS rampant. And Sony, along with most
gaming companies, want to stop it. Including anti-chip code into
software is one way of handling this. And if it discourages people
from chipping their machines, so much the better.
As the code only affects people WITH a chipped machine, it wouldn't
affect people who are just "normal" consumers.
Dino Crisis has the anti-chip code and so did the Japanese version of
FF8. It just means getting some extra entries into the
GS/PAR/CAETLA/etc, but that is a hassle nonetheless. Though when the
new and cheaper versions of the PSX(w/o par port) comes out, that
might be a problem.
But from my viewpoint, at least, the cheat codes and external devices
categories aren't companies or industries which really benefit Sony.
By taking out the ParPort, they don't sustain any real losses but gain
real savings.
The same thing with the anti-chip code. Sony isn't aiming for the
folks who chip their machines. It isn't a supported action and only
encourages the illegal sales of illegal copies of their licensed
games. This hurts the companies which makes the games and it hurts
Sony.
I have nothing against chipping a PSX. But I also don't have a problem
with Sony wanting to protect their investments. When you think about
it, we're the ones bending the rules to suit our needs. And when Sony
puts out another anti-chip coded game, someone will just create an
anti-anti-chip code for the add-ons.
But you'll probably notice that Sony hasn't made anti-add-on module
games which would prevent people from cheating and bypassing that
security measure. And they won't. Since this would shut out the 3rd
party par port device makers and they might then have a basis to sue.
*shrugs* Then again, maybe not. But the modchip makers are making
those chips with one function in mind only. And that is bypassing
whatever means it is that is in place to enforce Zoning/Regional codes
and the playback of any non-original PSX discs. Basically, it is a
chip for the exclusive purpose of defeating a form of copy protection.
And that is a no-no/dark gray area.
Sorry for the long rant.
Wing.
Parasyte
Rhinoa Heartilly <rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.99081...@ruby.calstatela.edu...
> On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Révolte! wrote:
>
> > If i have a mod chip and want to buy the game...
> > I couldnt play it because, from what i've heard, even the original discs
> > dont play if you have a chipped PSX....
> > And if you look at the number of pple having a chip in.... thats a good move
> > to not put in the anti-chip code...
>
> Hmm.. the thing is this. Sony doesn't want people to have their
> machines chipped. It doesn't help them in the least as the main
> reasons for chipping a machine in the first place are for:
>
> 1) Playing imports.
> 2) Playing "backups".
>
> While the import playing is really just a gray area type thing.. the
> "backup" section isn't. Piracy IS rampant. And Sony, along with most
> gaming companies, want to stop it. Including anti-chip code into
> software is one way of handling this. And if it discourages people
> from chipping their machines, so much the better.
But it really doesn't; the real piraters hack the cd images to remove the protection
within hours of the release, then burn them back. Even if they dont, the
gameshark/PAR codes work too, so the mod protection really isn;t anti-piracy, its
anti-import. Oh well, I suppose they just don;t like import gamers, seeing as they're
moving t force us to become piraters as well.
--
Don't mind me, just making an ass of myself once again...
--Parasyte
Creator of alt.games.final-fantasy.rpg's IRC channel, #agffr
on irc.liquidnet.org
See the AGFFR website:
http://www.jps.net/jmg1/
See, erm, another site:
http://come.to/amanda-lover
Remove -DONTSENDSTUPIDSTUFF-
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--THE CHEATER'S FRONT--
This Copy'n'Paste text symbolizes that the person who Copies and Pastes
it into their sig is a proud member of THE CHEATER'S FRONT, people who
are not ashamed to admit that they cheat the #%!@# out of games...pretty
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no hope in sight, when you run out of ammo, and when that boss seems
impossibly hard, there's only one solution...TO CHEAT!!
--THE CHEATER'S FRONT--
Rhinoa Heartilly
> I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
> way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing, but
> in this alternative, considering the taxes and the great value
> difference between Brazil and U.S.A currency, the price will increase at
> least 250%. So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
> countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely no comercial
> interest.
> Edson Hiroshi Aoki
> ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br
Hm... to be quite honest, Edson, the public announcement of the
support of piracy may not be the best policy. ^_^;; But that's just my
pov.
Here's the deal, and take it with a grain of salt as it's from a
totally US-centric pov.
For myself personally, I've paid $50-$100 for a music cd(import). The
price for the pirated version would have set me back only $10-$20.
I've paid $100 for a PSX game because of the fact it was an import. I
could have bought the pirated version for $20. I look at the local
import shops and guess what? Why.. mark ups on all imported hardware.
And mark ups on all imported software/games. Should one go.. pirate..
or legit, but imported?
A tough moral question.. one of what's fair and what's legally right.
Personally, I tend to lean more towards the legally right side. Less
problems. But I understand your situation, Edson. Why should you have
to pay such a high price for the same game when everyone else is
paying a mere $50 a game? Heck.. why pay even that when you can pay a
mere $20 for a pirated game? Maybe because it is illegal. But to most
people who are considering pirated games, that's hardly a deterrant.
Are you interested in seeing another game from that company coming out
again? Maybe you should support them by buying one of their games?
Even if only 10% to 20% of the price of the game makes it to the
original game designers and makers, it is still money which they
recieve which encourages them to keep producing.
If they port to a particular country and/or language, it is because
there is a market there. And while I don't like to generalize, if your
point of view is indicitive of the mindset in Brazil, even if a legal
port was made, would people buy it? Would people be willing to shell
out the top dollar for the top game? Or... would people just pirate it
and distribute it for bottom dollar leaving the source company with
hollow promises of purchases?
And that is basically the point. If enough people choose to take the
low-road, then no one will open doors there. Why? No one will buy
their games. Too much taxation, import fees, tariffs, etc...
But don't blame companies themselves. The responsibility is a shared
one between game designer/producer, game publisher, distributer, and
Sony. (Sony has a part to play in most things playstation.)
But you're probably more into the market of a Import and/or a pirated
game than a port. English being as a preferred language in another
post.
Brazil is getting shafted in that respect. True. But then again, so is
pretty much any country which imports games instead of getting a port
of the game. Americans want imports of Japanese games and they want
ports. They pay high prices for the imports and then pay somewhat fair
prices for the ports. Pay pay pay. It is business and really has very
little to do with being fair or unfair.
Hardly my place to give advice, but if you've got an ear pointed in
this direction, my advice to you would be to buy an imported game via
one of those online stores. If they deliver via international delivery
services.. get it through that. If you can find a friend who lives in
the states who can bounce the package to you, even better. Avoid
buying from local shops which enjoy bloodletting. And please.. don't
pirate. The quality of the burn you'll be getting isn't the same as
the real thing. Unless you like skipping FMV sequences or stuff like
that. :p
But there may be online stores which will cater to your particular
needs. You never know.
Wing.
Rhinoa Heartilly
> But it really doesn't; the real piraters hack the cd images to
> remove the protection within hours of the release, then burn them
> back. Even if they dont, the gameshark/PAR codes work too, so the
> mod protection really isn;t anti-piracy, its anti-import. Oh well,
> I suppose they just don;t like import gamers, seeing as they're
> moving t force us to become piraters as well.
Personally, I don't see the real reason for regional lock outs for
games, dvd's, or pretty much any format of entertainment. Other than
licensing agreements and legal contracts between Sony and small
development companies and the country oriented licensing agreements
and distribution rights and the like.
Basically... it comes down to who has the right to distribute the
games and where. But then again, thought we were approaching a global
market? :)
But I think I mentioned that and totally agree that the anti-chip
codes do little as they can be bypassed. However, even if the effort
is in vain, it is one which Sony must continue with. If they didn't,
it would weaken them from a legal standpoint. As it is kinda obvious
that pirating is very very much alive, it would require a pretty
braindead company to not know it. And since they know it, they must do
what they can to defend it or face a very weak position in any suits
they wish to file at a later date.
Most of this just trickles down to us consumers as basically meaning
we need to get the codes and people developing the codes to work
around the protection just needs to keep on doing what they do. :)
BUT. Just just because Sony is implementing this, that in NO WAY
forces us importers to be piraters. If a person chooses to pirate,
that's their choice. No one put a gun to their head and say "pirate
this or I blow your mo'fo'k'ing head into patte". If you pirate, you
do so out of your own free will.
I've yet to talk to one store owner who doesn't have the release codes
for a game they are selling. Most owners who import games know about
these codes and keep up to date on them. Buying an import and applying
an anti-lockout code is not pirating.
But taking a game and burning it and distributing it is. Buying such a
burned game doesn't support the company and thus makes you a supporter
of pirating if not a pirater yourself if you so decide to
redistribute.
> Don't mind me, just making an ass of myself once again...
> --Parasyte
The world is a big place. Don't worry about it. ;)
But importing and applying a code isn't the same thing as pirating.
Importers have had to buy the actual game itself. Piraters are just
printing money, literally.
But I digress again... :)
Wing.
Andy Borne
Mark Androvich <mand...@mail2.quiknet.com> wrote in message
news:01bee84e$ed8bae40$2646e7cf@rjiredff...
> Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote in article
> <37B846EA...@dcc.unicamp.br>...
> > I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched comercially. The only
> > way for us to put our hands on it is, or by piracy, or by importing, but
> > in this alternative, considering the taxes and the great value
> > difference between Brazil and U.S.A currency, the price will increase at
> > least 250%. So I think there is nothing wrong in piracyng games in
> > countries like mine, where Squaresoft has absolutely no comercial
> > interest.
>
>
> You have two options-- one legal (import), one illegal (copy). You chose
> the illegal option because the legal one costs more. This is no different
> than any other pro-theft argument-- it is too expensive, therefore
stealing
> it is okay. WRONG! Take your sorry excuses for illegal and unethical
> behavior elsewhere.
>
> Now, pardon me while I go steal a car. I'd buy it, but it is too
> expensive...
>
> Mark
>
expect him to pay that much for a game you can get for $40. You don't want
him to steal? That's fine then, have him send you the money so you can buy
the game and mail it to him.
Andy Borne
Rhinoa Heartilly <rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.99081...@ruby.calstatela.edu...
I've seen you in this NG a couple of times, both of which involved
multi-group posts. Tell me, which ng are you in? Me and Parasyte are both
in alt.games.final-fantasy.rpg. For all I know, you are too and just posted
to those two strings out of sheer coincidende.
Mark Androvich
kl...@altavista.net <DELETETOE...@altavista.net> wrote in article
<37B8EE6C...@altavista.net>...
So does the expense justify illegally copying the game? I say no!
Mark
Michael Bungey
, at 16:04:58 on Tue, 17 Aug 1999, Rhinoa Heartilly
<rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu> spewed forth the following:
>While the import playing is really just a gray area type thing.
Not true. Importing for own use is perfectly legal. Selling is
different - own use is fine.
--
Michael Bungey
G.J. Yuill
Rhinoa Heartilly <rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu> wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Aug 1999, Révolte! wrote:
<snip>
>
>But you'll probably notice that Sony hasn't made anti-add-on module
>games which would prevent people from cheating and bypassing that
>security measure. And they won't. Since this would shut out the 3rd
>party par port device makers and they might then have a basis to sue.
>*shrugs* Then again, maybe not
Actually, both Ape Escape and V Rally 2 had anti add-on code in them, which
had to be bypassed before you could have your xplorer or whatever turned on
during the game. - Kind of blows that argument out of the water.
Sony want total control over the marketplace, but the way they do it is
wrong - putting in anti mod chip protection only hurts people who import the
game, as anyone who uses a "backup" can use one of the many cracks that
appear almost as soon as the game is released - remember Medievil, or V
Rally 2, or Ape Escape. Pirate software is big business and Sony will not
be able stop it. They only succeed in annoying people who like to play
import games.
<rant mode off>
Cheers
Gav
Rhinoa Heartilly
> I've seen you in this NG a couple of times, both of which involved
> multi-group posts. Tell me, which ng are you in? Me and Parasyte are both
> in alt.games.final-fantasy.rpg. For all I know, you are too and just posted
> to those two strings out of sheer coincidende.
alt.games.final-fantasy.rpg,
rec.games.video.sony
alt.games.final-fantasy
alt.games.video.sony-playstation.faqs
Hi Andy, hmm.. I'd have to say simple carelessness on my part. Sorry
for the spam. :| But the newgroup I was in was the
alt.games.video.sony-playstation.faqs and the post I replied to was to
several newsgroups. ^_^;; My bad.
Though now that you mention it, I think it might be interesting to
subscribe to the FF newsgroups just to lurk a bit and see what
interesting topics come up. (Possibly info on FF8. :p)
But sorry for the cross-posting. It was unintentional.
Wing.
Rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu
Rhinoa Heartilly
> >But you'll probably notice that Sony hasn't made anti-add-on module
[by add-on modules, I meant par port devices. Sorry for the vagueness]
> >games which would prevent people from cheating and bypassing that
> >security measure. And they won't. Since this would shut out the 3rd
> >party par port device makers and they might then have a basis to sue.
> >*shrugs* Then again, maybe not
> Actually, both Ape Escape and V Rally 2 had anti add-on code in them, which
> had to be bypassed before you could have your xplorer or whatever turned on
> during the game. - Kind of blows that argument out of the water.
Hmm.. that's odd.. when I have my par connected, there really aren't
any problems. :| And I didn't apply any codes either. ^_^;; But guess
not everyone's getting the same kind of experience out of it.
My PSX is enhanced as well, but Ape Escape didn't require any codes
for my game to boot. It just worked right out of the box.. so I don't
quite know what codes you are referring to in this case.
Don't play V Rally, so don't know about that game title.
> Sony want total control over the marketplace, but the way they do it is
> wrong - putting in anti mod chip protection only hurts people who import the
> game, as anyone who uses a "backup" can use one of the many cracks that
> appear almost as soon as the game is released - remember Medievil, or V
> Rally 2, or Ape Escape. Pirate software is big business and Sony will not
> be able stop it. They only succeed in annoying people who like to play
> import games.
Sony can choose to not enforce anything. *shrugs* But in some cases
they may be required to or else they won't be able to sell to various
countries. The import/export restrictions and requirements are to keep
regional publishers and distributers in business. Without it, money
from one nation will simply flow to another nation. Even if Sony
didn't care about the lock-out(but they do), they may not really have
a choice. But you are quite right in saying that their technique is
flawed and serves little purpose other than to irritate people.
> <rant mode off>
> Cheers
> Gav
Ranting is fun. ;)
Wing.
Rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu
Kurt Kalata
>different - own use is fine.
As much as I'd like to agree with you...it IS more of a gray area. It's not
technically illegal, but a lot of games have something like "for sale and
use in Japan only" on them. There's no law, of course.
Mark Androvich
<q0pu3.2544$oR2.1...@news.uswest.net>...
Try and understand my point. Whether or not it is "highway robbery" for a
company to charge such a high price, a person's response to it tells us a
lot about his or her character. There are imported items where I live that
are quite expensive. My response? I don't steal them!
Let's consider something as unimportant and unnecessary to life as
videogames are: macadamia nuts. I love them! I don't need them to live,
but I love them! They cost about 3 times as much in this state as they do
in Hawaii where they are grown and produced. Is that wrong? Is that
highway robbery? People still pay the high price for them, so why
shouldn't the company continue to mark them up that much? I go without
them, due to the cost, except for in special circumstances (birthdays,
etc.). However, I don't get on a newsgroup to argue that my stealing them
is ethical because they cost too much.
And, yes, if this guy wants to send me money and postage to mail the game
to Brazil, I will be the first one to go out and buy it for him. Yet you
will notice that despite leaving messages on a newsgroup whose members live
in a country where FF8 can be bought cheap, he never once asked any of us
for help! Instead, he just wants to argue that piracy is ethical.
Mark
Kyle...just Kyle
Andy Borne <abo...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:q0pu3.2544$oR2.1...@news.uswest.net...
> Try and understand this guy for a second. It's highway robbery (fos) to
> expect him to pay that much for a game you can get for $40. You don't
want
> him to steal? That's fine then, have him send you the money so you can
buy
> the game and mail it to him.
It might be highway robbery if the item in question was food or water. But
it's not. It's a luxury good.
------------------------------------------------------------
Call me Commander Soup.
Coke...mother, nurturer, caregiver...lover...
------------------------------------------------------------
Carl D Cravens
> And, yes, if this guy wants to send me money and postage to mail the game
> to Brazil, I will be the first one to go out and buy it for him. Yet you
> will notice that despite leaving messages on a newsgroup whose members live
> in a country where FF8 can be bought cheap, he never once asked any of us
> for help! Instead, he just wants to argue that piracy is ethical.
The problem isn't one of importers' markups, it's the exchange rate. If
you bought FF8 for US$40 and sold it to him at your cost, the value of the
money he'd have to give you for you to break even is worth more to him
than your $40 is to you. That is, in Brazil, he might be able to take
that same US$40 worth and pay his half rent for a month, or buy groceries
for a couple weeks.
This isn't to say that copying games is right just because the exchange
rate sucks. But it's not as simple as by-passing the normal importers.
(If it were, there'd be more compitition on importing and the price would
be driven down.)
--
Carl (ra...@phoenyx.net)
Mr Bean
Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> schreef in berichtnieuws
37B993C3...@dcc.unicamp.br...
<snip>
If Square or Sony doesn't think that a country or 'zone' is commercially
important then fuck 'em and pirate the game if you can.
If they want your money they should release it in your area !
PS this doesn't mean you can copy Jap games that are going to be released in
the US or anywhere else.
--
Mr Bean
"My baby gets passed around I don't frown, I love to see my friends getting
down. When it's just me and she you know it's never precarious, but sharing
with your buddies is hilarious."
-Faithless, She's my baby
Mr Bean
Mark Androvich <mand...@mail2.quiknet.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
01bee880$f6a4b580$dbf0b7cf@rjiredff...
And just how much do you pay for a game ? about $40 ? You know, in Europe
you have to pay 1.5 times that price for a normal legal game (which I do),
but if you import, you have to pay 2 or 3 times the original price (unless
you order it straight from the US and don't get caught).
Countries such as Brasil probably have even higher prices or taxes.
It is a valid excuse to pirate an import game if you want to (I would do it
if I knew someone who imports).
--
Mr Bean
"My baby gets passed around I don't frown, I love to see my friends getting
down. When it's just me and she you know it's never precarious, but sharing
with your buddies is hilarious."
-Faithless, She's my baby
PS if you're from Europe or anything, sorry for the rant.
Rhinoa Heartilly
> And just how much do you pay for a game ? about $40 ? You know, in Europe
> you have to pay 1.5 times that price for a normal legal game (which I do),
> but if you import, you have to pay 2 or 3 times the original price (unless
> you order it straight from the US and don't get caught).
> Countries such as Brasil probably have even higher prices or taxes.
Hmm... I wonder if you are referring to the exchange rate or the
importation taxes. :| There is a difference.
I mean.. $40 which translates to about 60 british pounds is still $40.
(Not taking into account the cost of exchange fees if any).
[this is going to get a bit lengthy]
If people both in the US and in Europe are making relatively the same
amount, say $1500-$2000/month for work in the US and about
2250L-3000L/month in Europe, then that is pretty much the same amount
of money. Given the economies are about the same.
With that in mind, I personally don't quite see the problem with
things being "expensive" when one is simply taking into account
exchange rates and not import fees/taxes.
However, if one ISN'T making money relative, then yes. It will cost
relatively more since we ARE talking about two differing economies
with different dynamics. This isn't so much a case of being unfair,
but that people really DO live in different worlds.
Games are a luxury.. and as such, there isn't any special mandate or
pressing need to get them to people at "affordable" prices. People
will pay the prices they are able to pay. Same thing with the recent
glut of gasoline price hikes here in California. :| But we keep paying
because that IS what we are capable of paying. Doesn't mean we won't
bitch and complain about it. :p
> It is a valid excuse to pirate an import game if you want to (I would do it
> if I knew someone who imports).
Given enough motivation, greed, stinginess, or simple lack of moral
fiber, there will always be a reason to pirate. But the situation is
always relative to who, when, where, and what.
One little note though. Importing a game from another country does not
constitute pirating. That's just importing.
Copying a game, be it an import or domestic title, and then
redistributing it IS pirating. Whether there is a fee charged or not
for the copies is irrelevant. It only affects the penalties and/or
fines.
So I assume you meant that given the lack of price fairness, that you
would pirate a game rather than buy one(import or domestic).
Personally, if for no other reason than for quality, I just get the
official copies, either import or domestic. It is simpler for me,
gives me better quality and less hassles.
Wing.
Rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu
Mark Androvich
Carl D Cravens <ra...@phoenyx.net> wrote in article
<Pine.LNX.4.10.99081...@lists.wirebird.com>...
We are getting off the original topic. The question was: Is it ethical to
copy a game in a country where the costs of importing that game are
exorbitant? The original poster said it was. I say it isn't.
G-Police was marked down to $7 brand new at the local Target last year. If
I copied it, would I be stealing it? Of course! It is irrelevant whether
or not the game would have cost me $400 or $7 to buy-- I am still stealing
it if I make a copy of it and do not pay for the original.
Mark
Mark Androvich
Mr Bean <boo...@village.uunet.be.NOSPAM> wrote in article
<7phm72$av7$1...@xenon.inbe.net>...
>
> Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 37B993C3...@dcc.unicamp.br...
>
> <snip>
>
> If Square or Sony doesn't think that a country or 'zone' is commercially
> important then fuck 'em and pirate the game if you can.
> If they want your money they should release it in your area !
That'll teach 'em!! Of course, perhaps this attitude is the reason they
don't think a zone is commercially important in the first place. Do you
honestly believe that pirating a game will make Sony or Square more likely
to release it in your area/ Please!
> PS this doesn't mean you can copy Jap games that are going to be released
in
> the US or anywhere else.
>
> Mr Bean
Well, why not? If you think it is okay to copy a game in one country
because you don't want to pay the expensive price of importing it, it seems
hypocritical to forbid other pirates from copying the game in another
country.
So you are saying piracy is okay as long as the price is too high? So, if
I decide to copy a $19 Greatest Hits game, or a $7 discount bin game, is
that still wrong or not? Somehow you think this is stealing, but copying a
more expensive import isn't. Call a spade a spade-- the price is
irrelevant! Theft is still theft.
Mark
Mr Bean
Rhinoa Heartilly <rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu> schreef in berichtnieuws
Pine.GSO.4.10.99081...@ruby.calstatela.edu...
> On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Mr Bean wrote:
>
> > And just how much do you pay for a game ? about $40 ? You know, in
Europe
> > you have to pay 1.5 times that price for a normal legal game (which I
do),
> > but if you import, you have to pay 2 or 3 times the original price
(unless
> > you order it straight from the US and don't get caught).
> > Countries such as Brasil probably have even higher prices or taxes.
>
> Hmm... I wonder if you are referring to the exchange rate or the
> importation taxes. :| There is a difference.
Import taxes
>
> I mean.. $40 which translates to about 60 british pounds is still $40.
> (Not taking into account the cost of exchange fees if any).
40 pounds is $60 (give or take a little)
games that cost $40 will probably cost £40,
that's what isn't fair.
>
> [this is going to get a bit lengthy]
>
> If people both in the US and in Europe are making relatively the same
> amount, say $1500-$2000/month for work in the US and about
> 2250L-3000L/month in Europe, then that is pretty much the same amount
> of money. Given the economies are about the same.
I think $1500-$2000 is a high income in Europe
>
> With that in mind, I personally don't quite see the problem with
> things being "expensive" when one is simply taking into account
> exchange rates and not import fees/taxes.
>
> However, if one ISN'T making money relative, then yes. It will cost
> relatively more since we ARE talking about two differing economies
> with different dynamics. This isn't so much a case of being unfair,
> but that people really DO live in different worlds.
The economies are very similar, the mostly same multinationals rule the US
and Europe (and the rest of the world), I think factories have to pay higher
ecology taxes here (because unlike the US governement, we sometimes care
about mother earth.)
>
> Games are a luxury.. and as such, there isn't any special mandate or
> pressing need to get them to people at "affordable" prices. People
> will pay the prices they are able to pay. Same thing with the recent
> glut of gasoline price hikes here in California. :| But we keep paying
> because that IS what we are capable of paying. Doesn't mean we won't
> bitch and complain about it. :p
ok, but I think that the price differences are a form of discrimination.
>
> > It is a valid excuse to pirate an import game if you want to (I would do
it
> > if I knew someone who imports).
>
> Given enough motivation, greed, stinginess, or simple lack of moral
> fiber, there will always be a reason to pirate. But the situation is
> always relative to who, when, where, and what.
If you have the money, then don't pirate.
But Sony and the others are destroying the free market, if it can't happen
in public, let it happen on the black market I say.
>
> One little note though. Importing a game from another country does not
> constitute pirating. That's just importing.
>
> Copying a game, be it an import or domestic title, and then
> redistributing it IS pirating. Whether there is a fee charged or not
> for the copies is irrelevant. It only affects the penalties and/or
> fines.
>
> So I assume you meant that given the lack of price fairness, that you
> would pirate a game rather than buy one(import or domestic).
It's not just the price, it's their attitude of threating us like shit.
>
> Personally, if for no other reason than for quality, I just get the
> official copies, either import or domestic. It is simpler for me,
> gives me better quality and less hassles.
I also get the original copies, bu I won't mind someone pirating an import.
>
> Wing.
> Rhi...@ruby.calstatela.edu
>
--
Mr Bean
"My baby gets passed around I don't frown, I love to see my friends getting
down. When it's just me and she you know it's never precarious, but sharing
with your buddies is hilarious."
-Faithless, She's my baby
Give us the Games !
paco_...@my-dejanews.com
> Russ Williams wrote:
>>
>> Edson Hiroshi Aoki <ra99...@dcc.unicamp.br> wrote:
>> > I'm from Brazil. Here FF8 will never be launched
>> > comercially.
>>
>> get the Spanish version.
>>
>
> First, I don愒 remember seeing an spanish version for FF7 and Xenogears.
> And if they even exist, and I never have heard about them, it愀 because
> they never appeared here (all FF7 packages sold here are imports).
>
toxyn
system.
Karl wrote:
> Read subject.