Top 10 Reasons The N64 sucks!
Robert Campbell
bmurdoch <bmur...@globalserve.net> wrote:
>
> As you guessed by the subject I hate the N64! Quality over Quantity
> HAHAHAHA!!
> #10. Shadows Of The Empire (first LVL was nice)
> #9. Cruisin USA
> #8. Mortal Kombat Trilogy
> #7. Dark Rift
> #6. NBA JAM
> #5. Doom
> #4. Hexen
> #3. Cartridges
> #2. High prices for SHITTY games
> #1. Its a Nintendo product enough said.
> Just for your information I own a PSX(sony playstation for the Nintendo
> people who dont know) and I own a SEGA SATURN(my favourite) I manage a
> video game store so believe me when I say Nintendo sucks and they are
> the pits to work with.
> BUT DONT WORRY N64 OWNERS IM SURE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER GOOD GAME OR 2.
> In 1998 that is!
disregard this guys comments.
look at what he says, the sega saturn is his favorite.
Look at his reasons
He mentioned 7 of the 14 games they have out suck.
thats 50% of the games are good. the psx has about 10% that are good.
Look at the games coming out for the n64:
Top Gear Rally
International Superstar Soccer
Golden Eye 007
and many more
Rob64
and doom.
Johnson
you are just jelous that n64 has pushed nintendo sales up 68% and total
video game sales up 128% it has better graphics and games so get the fuck
out of this newsgroup your entitled to your opinion but if thats yours then
dont hang around the newsgroup for the people that enjoy using their $200
purchase for something other than a doorstop
James Herder <Jhe...@globalserve.net> wrote in article
<33D82C...@globalserve.net>...
> bmurdoch wrote:
> >
> > As you guessed by the subject I hate the N64! Quality over Quantity
> > HAHAHAHA!!
> > #10. Shadows Of The Empire (first LVL was nice)
> > #9. Cruisin USA
> > #8. Mortal Kombat Trilogy
> > #7. Dark Rift
> > #6. NBA JAM
> > #5. Doom
> > #4. Hexen
> > #3. Cartridges
> > #2. High prices for SHITTY games
> > #1. Its a Nintendo product enough said.
> > Just for your information I own a PSX(sony playstation for the Nintendo
> > people who dont know) and I own a SEGA SATURN(my favourite) I manage a
> > video game store so believe me when I say Nintendo sucks and they are
> > the pits to work with.
> > BUT DONT WORRY N64 OWNERS IM SURE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER GOOD GAME OR 2.
> > In 1998 that is!
>
> What are you talking about in 1998??? I don't think they will have Zelda
> done by that time. Unless they decide the bulky drive (hahahaha!!!!)
> will be done as well. Oh well maybe the suckers who bought N64 will be
> glad to own Cruisin the world or Earth Worm Jim 64 hahahaha!!!!! I feel
> sorry for the many people who bought the $200 doorstop that the Nintendo
> will become.
>
Eric Duprey
: > Just for your information I own a PSX(sony playstation for the Nintendo
: > people who dont know) and I own a SEGA SATURN(my favourite) I manage a
: > video game store so believe me when I say Nintendo sucks and they are
: > the pits to work with.
: > BUT DONT WORRY N64 OWNERS IM SURE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER GOOD GAME OR 2.
: > In 1998 that is!
: What are you talking about in 1998??? I don't think they will have Zelda
: done by that time. Unless they decide the bulky drive (hahahaha!!!!)
: will be done as well.
Following up to your own posts will not make your argument stronger.
Eric
----
Eric Duprey
(er...@rmi.net)
----
David Rodriguez
He hates N64 and likes Sega. That explains the stupidity.
nILs
bmurdoch <bmur...@globalserve.net> schrieb im Beitrag
<33D827...@globalserve.net>...
> As you guessed by the subject I hate the N64! Quality over Quantity
> HAHAHAHA!!
> #10. Shadows Of The Empire (first LVL was nice)
> #9. Cruisin USA
> #8. Mortal Kombat Trilogy
> #7. Dark Rift
> #6. NBA JAM
> #5. Doom
> #4. Hexen
> #3. Cartridges
> #2. High prices for SHITTY games
> #1. Its a Nintendo product enough said.
> Just for your information I own a PSX(sony playstation for the Nintendo
> people who dont know) and I own a SEGA SATURN(my favourite) I manage a
> video game store so believe me when I say Nintendo sucks and they are
> the pits to work with.
> BUT DONT WORRY N64 OWNERS IM SURE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER GOOD GAME OR 2.
> In 1998 that is!
>
I'd say number one should be: LACK OF FMV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and number 2: SHITTY SOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!
and number 3: FOG just sucks!!!!!!!
besides that I like my N64
and the good games for this year:
ROBOTECH: Crystal Dreams
Mission Impossible
Goldeneye
nuff said
Nils
Brass Hemmingway
David Rodriguez wrote:
> He hates N64 and likes Sega. That explains the stupidity.
Stupidity?? Stupidity?? Read your words and then tell me about
stupidity. Your system has about 3 good games out of a total of 20
(could be less). Loyal gamers rushed to buy the N64 on its release date.
Why else would you have bought a system you knew so little of so fast?
Now Nintendo's inferior hardware and late entry have left all of the
die-hard Nintendo players with one ground-breaking game, costs that far
exceed that of the norm and promises (empty pormises, no doubt). The PSX
and Saturn are great systems and, sorry to piss you off, are better. I
hope, for all of you N64 players that struggle to see the good points of
your system and struggle to enjoy it, you get some good games. Judging
by nintendo's record though, this will not happen soon.
Anyway, by the time the N64 get's a stedy flow of decent software, it
will be long overshadowed by the Black Belt and PSX2, both which will
have specs that far exceed that of the N64 (1 million polys as opposed
to 100,000), and a CD/DVD drives to boot. Nintendo's latecoming could be
it's downfall. Actually, my friend S@int 7 wrote an incredible article
about Nintendo that I think everybody should read.
Go here: http://www.globalserve.net/~deoent and then to the talk cafe.
Check it out and send me your comments..
-Brass Hemmingway
Bruce Siu Cheong Chan
Biased little sucker, aren't you? Also, seeing as you ARE the manager of
a video game store, i've got a question you might be able to answer...
Was there really a second gunman on the grassy knoll?! Idiot.
Bruce
Jesse Dorland
In a secluded warehouse,
on a pier somewhere in Maine,
gagged and at gunpoint,
Brass Hemmingway <deo...@globalserve.net> frantically made this plea for
help:
>David Rodriguez wrote:
>> He hates N64 and likes Sega. That explains the stupidity.
>
>Stupidity?? Stupidity?? Read your words and then tell me about
Stupidity?? Stupidity?? You're going to receive flames for months for posting
this crap in a Nintendo newsgroup! You've demonstrated beautifully my belief
that trolls never have anything intelligent to say.
>stupidity. Your system has about 3 good games out of a total of 20
>(could be less). Loyal gamers rushed to buy the N64 on its release date.
Loyal Sega fans rushed to buy the Saturn on its release date, too. You have
no point here. If you want a system, it makes sense that you should buy it
early, because otherwise, especially with a highly-hyped and anticipated
system, you run the risk of not being able to get one later on.
>Why else would you have bought a system you knew so little of so fast?
If the Nintendo 128 came out tomorrow, no one would buy it, because no one
would know anything about it. *Everyone* knew about the N64, because it had
been hyped for almost 3 years. Almost everybody who bought one knew that it
used cartridges, and it didn't take a genius to count the small number of
games (2) that were launched along with it. And yet everyone wanted it
anyway.
You can't "blame" the N64's sales on stupidity. Gamers knew what they were
getting (both the up- and downsides), and (GASP!) some people actually liked
what they got! That must be endlessly perplexing to you, since you seem to
have assumed all this time that everyone thinks what you tell them to.
>Now Nintendo's inferior hardware and late entry have left all of the
Inferior hardware? You're making this up as you go along, aren't you? The
N64's hardware is superior in almost every way to the Saturn and Playsation's.
If you consider the cartridge platform inferior to CDs, then so be it, but
that is one area where there is no "best"; it's a matter of opinion.
>die-hard Nintendo players with one ground-breaking game, costs that far
>exceed that of the norm and promises (empty pormises, no doubt). The PSX
>and Saturn are great systems and, sorry to piss you off, are better. I
**In your opinion** they are better. One person's preference doesn't count
for much, if anything.
>hope, for all of you N64 players that struggle to see the good points of
>your system and struggle to enjoy it, you get some good games. Judging
>by nintendo's record though, this will not happen soon.
Nintendo's record? This just gets funnier and funnier. Nintendo has a better
reputation for good games than either Sega or Sony. Any game created by
Nintendo is bound to be something special.
>
>Anyway, by the time the N64 get's a stedy flow of decent software, it
>will be long overshadowed by the Black Belt and PSX2, both which will
The Black Belt *might* be out in late '98; the PSX2 won't be here for 2 more
years or so. By that time, the N64 will have a user base of 20 million or
more, and the BB and PSX2 will face exactly the same problems the Nintendo 64
did. Drumming up 3rd party support, and finding a niche in a market that is
already full.
>have specs that far exceed that of the N64 (1 million polys as opposed
>to 100,000), and a CD/DVD drives to boot. Nintendo's latecoming could be
I would expect a system that comes out 3 years later to be far superior.
However, tech specs alone do not guarantee a system's success. The 3D0 and
Atari Jaguar have proven that.
DVD drives are still a long way off for consoles. You can't find one today
for less than $500. The price will have to drop by about 400 bucks before a
DVD console can be competitive, and that isn't going to happen by next year.
-Jesse
=========================================================
There are two major products that come out of Berkeley:
LSD & UNIX. We do not believe this to be a coincidence.
=========================================================
James Herder
Robert Campbell wrote:
> disregard this guys comments.
> look at what he says, the sega saturn is his favorite.
> Look at his reasons
> He mentioned 7 of the 14 games they have out suck.
> thats 50% of the games are good. the psx has about 10% that are good.
> Look at the games coming out for the n64:
>
> Top Gear Rally
> International Superstar Soccer
> Golden Eye 007
> and many more
>
> Rob64
>
> and doom.
remembered 7 of them. I think there are many more of the 14 games that
suck. War Gods, Killer Instinct Gold and Pilot wings. I think 4 good
games out of 14 is pretty pathetic for a system that preaches QUALITY
over QUANTITY. If you think that I may be wrong please send me a
response. I will be glad to laugh at you. Also I own a PSX and a Saturn
as well and I like the Saturn better. I have more Saturn games then I do
Playstation games. The Saturn has the best sports and arcade games. The
only reason I keep my PSX is for games like Wild Arms and the upcoming
Final Fantasy 7. And by the way if N64 is the best system why is FF7 not
going to come out for it? If you can come up with a half way intelligent
answer please send me it I am dying to know.
James Herder
David Rodriguez wrote:
>
> He hates N64 and likes Sega. That explains the stupidity.
there are more than 4-5 good games for that machine. If you can then you
must not be playing these games and getting your information from
Nintendo Power. I have seen and played all of the games on the N64 and
if I got a N64 I would turn around and sell it to the nearest sucker I
could find.
Steve
Dear N64 people:
Everyone don't respond to this post. It's obvious all these anti-N64
comments are coming from one person (just look at the headers), and
besides, he's trying to figure out why the N64 has been a success. I
quote him exactly, "Why have so many people bought the N64?" He's
just jealous because the N64 has supplanted his dear Saturn. Just
ignore this dork who has no life and do not respond. Thank you.
Incoherent Man
i agree with some of your points, but i have to question a few of
these...
>Now Nintendo's inferior hardware and late entry have left all of the
nintendo's hardware is inferior? no seek times, minimal popup, and 3d
rendering on the fly qualify as inferior? to what?
>die-hard Nintendo players with one ground-breaking game, costs that far
>exceed that of the norm and promises (empty pormises, no doubt). The PSX
costs that exceed that of the norm? last i checked the n64 was the
same price as psx...or am i missing something???
>and Saturn are great systems and, sorry to piss you off, are better. I
well, i dunno that it's the systems that are better, per se, moreso
that it is the games that are better right now...some psx/saturn games
are better than a lot of the n64 games, and inversly, some n64 games
are better than psx/saturns...but what it comes down to is this: this
same argument was held when it was snes -vs- genesis...and look at
where they are now...genesis games still look the same as they did 6
years ago, and look at the difference in snes games...it wasn't until
dkland that nintendo finally utilized the snes to its full
ability...once the n64 is fully utilized, i think your opinion might
change...but then again, there is always someone who likes a good
argument, like me, who will always be there to argue a point, as long
as someone with enough intellect, wisdom, and maturity is there to
argue back...
just my 2 cents...
Incoherent Man
Incoherent Man
>games out of 14 is pretty pathetic for a system that preaches QUALITY
>over QUANTITY. If you think that I may be wrong please send me a
i agree...it seems nintendo feels its better to port a game to n64
which won't take as long, than develop a new one...but hey, who cares
if the game has already run its course and the genre is tired...take
1st person shooters...look how many of them n64 has already...doom,
quake(soon), hexen, turok, SOTE (kinda)...with the exception of the
last two, all of those have already been pc hits, and have run their
course...sure, doom is fun, but its not worth more than $20 if you
can't play deathmatch with a bunch of people...same for hexen and
quake...and i heard duke3d is gonna be ported to n64 (yawn)...with
such groundbreaking game in sm64, why can't they make more of this
quality? i dunno...i'm just a befuddled incoherent college student, i
guess...
>Final Fantasy 7. And by the way if N64 is the best system why is FF7 not
>going to come out for it? If you can come up with a half way intelligent
>answer please send me it I am dying to know.
many possibilities:
1. licensing troubles
2. timing
3. development
4. 64DD
5. FF8??? or maybe to be called FF64??? who knows?
Incoherent Man
Geezer
On Sat, 26 Jul 1997 19:46:21 -0400, James Herder
<Jhe...@globalserve.net> wrote:
I think there are many more of the 14 games that
>suck. War Gods, Killer Instinct Gold and Pilot wings. I think 4 good
>over QUANTITY.
How dare you insult my beloved Pilot Wings 64!
Most fun flight sim I've ever played. (and I've got a PC / 3DFX with
EF2000, FS95, A10 Cuba, etc.). Sure, it probably doesn't appeal to
kids or people with a limited attention span, but it simulates flight
better than most Pentium sims.
Brass Hemmingway
It seems I have a live one here. I hope you recognize who you are
arguing with. Even more, I hope that you have done your research as I
rarly enjoy wasting time. I think of this message and all following
messages as "eye openers".
Incoherent Man wrote:
> i agree with some of your points, but i have to question a few of
> these...
Hmmmm... Thank you, that means a lot. Alright then, your first question.
> nintendo's hardware is inferior? no seek times, minimal popup, and 3d
> rendering on the fly qualify as inferior? to what?
This is a pretty interesting area that I have debated for a long time.
It seems that the N64 does render on the fly with (minus the minimal
popup, of course) with all effects applied producing a very nice
looking polygon. The reason I say it is inferior is because of the
number that it can comfortably push. That is why you see the pop-up and
low polygon counts on the characters. So is it indeed inferior? Yes,
considering that the PSX and Saturn can display more polys on the
screen. Sure, the poly's don't have all the shabang effects applied, the
the count is still higher. A machine that had been released two years
after it's competitors should have improved on EVERYTHING rather than
just the polygon surface. Second seek time. I can't argue this. The N64
has the fastest seek time ever. No other system can compare. The only
problem is, the cartriges hold barely any information COMPARED to CD, of
course. Seek time or no seek time, after tasting the cinimas on a CD, or
hearing the perfectly orchastrated music (Q-sound, no doubt) I would
have to admit that cartriges are indeed inferior despite their "low seek
times."
> costs that exceed that of the norm? last i checked the n64 was the
> same price as psx...or am i missing something???
Ah, my friend, but that's where the english language comes into play. If
you look closely at my sentance you will find that the main subject is
"games." Even my comment about cost follows a comment about games. It is
this reason that I didn't need to describe what type of "cost" I was
talking about. Granted, the systems cost around the same amount of
money, but the games are far more expensive. Maybe not one or two, but
if you are a hardcore gamer and want to buy all 14, it will take a huge
chunk out of your wallet. Am I wrong?
> well, i dunno that it's the systems that are better, per se, moreso
> that it is the games that are better right now...some psx/saturn games
> are better than a lot of the n64 games, and inversly, some n64 games
> are better than psx/saturns...but what it comes down to is this: this
> same argument was held when it was snes -vs- genesis...and look at
> where they are now...genesis games still look the same as they did 6
> years ago, and look at the difference in snes games...it wasn't until
> dkland that nintendo finally utilized the snes to its full
> ability...once the n64 is fully utilized, i think your opinion might
> change...but then again, there is always someone who likes a good
> argument, like me, who will always be there to argue a point, as long
> as someone with enough intellect, wisdom, and maturity is there to
> argue back...
Touchee my good friend. You raise an interesting argument, with fact, no
doubt. There is only one inconsistancy that has been bugging me for some
time now. When N64 owners defend their system they usually point out
that each system has superior games depending on the genre. Now, here is
the challenge: list some of them. Oh, and I would admit that Mario 64 is
in a league of its own and is remarkable so you needn't add it.
> just my 2 cents...
> Incoherent Man
And your 2 cents have been noted. I take it you read my previous
message, did you read the article on the N64 on my site. Do yourself a
favour. I am not advertising or getting you to go to a lamo site, rather
I am trying to rasie your awarness to a higher level than most of the
kids in this newsgroup. What you will find is an informative,
comprehensive and interesting article that you can agree or disagree
with. check it out. http://www.globalserve.net/~deoent (talk cafe)
-Brass Hemmingway
Aaron J. Rich
> What are you on dude? Stupidity? What ever it is I don't want any.
> Thanks all the same!
Jesse Dorland
In a secluded warehouse,
on a pier somewhere in Maine,
gagged and at gunpoint,
>i agree with some of your points, but i have to question a few of
>these...
>
>>Now Nintendo's inferior hardware and late entry have left all of the
>
>nintendo's hardware is inferior? no seek times, minimal popup, and 3d
>rendering on the fly qualify as inferior? to what?
I *think* (but I'm not sure) he was trying to say that cartridges are inferior
to CDs. That's a matter of opinion, though.
>>die-hard Nintendo players with one ground-breaking game, costs that far
>>exceed that of the norm and promises (empty pormises, no doubt). The PSX
>
>costs that exceed that of the norm? last i checked the n64 was the
>same price as psx...or am i missing something???
He's referring to game prices, which do exceed the "norm" for next generation
systems. They're going down in a hurry, though. Maybe I'm being ripped off,
but where I shop (usually Toys 'R' Us), I cannot find any new and popular
Playstation game for under $55. Heck, even terribly unpopular games (like
Tobal No. 1) are going for that price.
Every 1st party N64 game that I'm aware of now retails for $59.99, 5 bucks
more than the average high-profile PSX game. The first 3rd-party game to go
for that price will be ISS 64 by Konami, and after that I predict most games
will start to run at that price or slightly above. If Nintendo drops their
cartridge royalties again (which they will have to when the 64DD comes out, if
they want cart games to be competitively priced), we can look forward to games
that are very closely priced to 32-bit games.
Jesse Dorland
In a secluded warehouse,
on a pier somewhere in Maine,
gagged and at gunpoint,
help:
<clip>
>A machine that had been released two years
>after it's competitors should have improved on EVERYTHING rather than
>just the polygon surface.
The N64 *has* improved on everything. The RCP (reality co-processor), which
handles polygon pushing and other graphical tasks, is a MUCH more powerful
processor than what the Playstation and Saturn use for visuals.
The reason it does not push as many polygons is, as you mentioned, it applies
all sorts of effects to each polygon. Anti-aliasing, filtering, MIP-mapping,
environment mapping (when needed), perspective correction; they (along with
everything else the RCP performs) multiply the complexity of drawing a polygon
by what is possibly a figure in double digits.
If a developer felt so inclined, s/he could disable most of the N64's features
leaving only texture-mapped, shaded, linear polygons (which is what the
Playstation uses), and it could pump out a million or more of them per second.
Even though massive numbers of polygons look tempting, developers are
apparently of the opinion that N64 games actually look better at 160,000
polys/sec. with all of those nifty features turned on. I would tend to agree,
but as with many things, it's largely a matter of personal preference.
<clip>
>Touchee my good friend. You raise an interesting argument, with fact, no
>doubt. There is only one inconsistancy that has been bugging me for some
>time now. When N64 owners defend their system they usually point out
>that each system has superior games depending on the genre. Now, here is
>the challenge: list some of them. Oh, and I would admit that Mario 64 is
>in a league of its own and is remarkable so you needn't add it.
Well, with platform games out of the way, I would submit Turok as one of the
best 1st-person shooters in a long time. It has a game world that is simply
enormous, very impressive graphics (which are important in this particular
genre) and fitting music. It does, however, suffer from the same problem
almost every shooter has - it gets repetitive after a while.
In the soccer genre, the N64 is definitely a winner. ISS 64 is arguably the
best soccer game ever, and one of the best sports titles.
Waverace 64 is one of the most original racers there is, and easily one of the
best, with drop-dead gorgeous graphics and realistic control.
I will not deny that the Nintendo 64 is lacking in most categories. However,
it seems that the library will be filling out nicely by the end of the year,
with racers (LOTS of 'em), fighters, puzzle games, and even a few
RPGs/adventures (at long last).
Washington
DO NOT RESPOND BEYOND THIS POINT!
Aaron J. Rich
YES SIR! SARGENT SIR! KISS YOUR BUTT FOR HOW MUCH, SIR??? OKAY SIR!
bmurdoch
As for the comments coming from one person that would be wrong it is
indeed 3 seperate people but we do use the same ISP and we do happen to
know each other in a way. I manage a local video game store and Brass an
d James are very good customers of mine and we happen to share the same
opinoins. Also I am not jealous at all. Its true that the N64 is
outselling the Saturn in a big way and the Saturn prob. only has a year
left but that does not make me jealous at all. I like Sega and I like
there products (except the 32X) just as you enjoy Nintendo and there
products and thats your choice and I respect that. From now on I dont
really want to get into a name calling contest an here IE:DORK I would
actually like some nice intelligent responses from people other than the
11 year olds who respond by saying you suck and the saturn sucks! I must
say I apologize for my subject name(top ten reasons) I should have
approched it better from the start and for that I do apologize.
Incoherent Man
>low polygon counts on the characters. So is it indeed inferior? Yes,
>considering that the PSX and Saturn can display more polys on the
but what if, (and this being a big "if") the psx or saturn had to
render on the fly? i know they're not built for that, but i think it
is only fair to compare apples to apples, so to speak...if and when an
n64 cd-rom comes out, we will finally be able to compare on the factor
of putting polys on the screen, because, let's be honest here: it's
easier to have a higher poly count if they are already pre-rendered
and just need to be accessed off the cd...
>the count is still higher. A machine that had been released two years
>after it's competitors should have improved on EVERYTHING rather than
i agree...but then again, had nintendo had a little more time :P
>has the fastest seek time ever. No other system can compare. The only
>problem is, the cartriges hold barely any information COMPARED to CD, of
>course. Seek time or no seek time, after tasting the cinimas on a CD, or
>hearing the perfectly orchastrated music (Q-sound, no doubt) I would
>have to admit that cartriges are indeed inferior despite their "low seek
>times."
well, once again, i agree, to a certain point...it all comes down to
personal preference again...do you buy a game for its' cinema
sequences? if so, then psx/saturn would be for you with its' cd
format...i've got a pc, and have the entire wing commander series,
which is about 40% game, and 60% cinema...fantastic...much better than
n64 could be...but then i play n64 games to play the games, not watch
a movie...
>"games." Even my comment about cost follows a comment about games. It is
>this reason that I didn't need to describe what type of "cost" I was
>talking about. Granted, the systems cost around the same amount of
sorry :) i'm quite the incoherent one, remember?
>money, but the games are far more expensive. Maybe not one or two, but
>if you are a hardcore gamer and want to buy all 14, it will take a huge
>chunk out of your wallet. Am I wrong?
no, but carts will always cost more than cds...cds are just
cheaper...microsoft had a 90% profit margin or something like that
(don't remember the article verbatim) because they have started
shipping all of their software on cds instead of disks...it's cheaper
that way...
>Touchee my good friend. You raise an interesting argument, with fact, no
>doubt. There is only one inconsistancy that has been bugging me for some
>time now. When N64 owners defend their system they usually point out
>that each system has superior games depending on the genre. Now, here is
>the challenge: list some of them. Oh, and I would admit that Mario 64 is
yeah, well, i see your point here, and once again, i think we've
reached this grey area for most of this discussion...so far, n64
hasn't broken through, and defined a genre that it dominates...but
then again, half the games out are just rehashes and ports, so i don't
think we can start trying to decide its genre until that time
comes...i wouldn't be surprised to see its genre become that of the
mario64 type...i think banjo kazooie is supposed to be like that and
with zelda being somewhat similar, i think you'll see that happen to
be more of the case...
>I am trying to rasie your awarness to a higher level than most of the
>kids in this newsgroup. What you will find is an informative,
>comprehensive and interesting article that you can agree or disagree
i read your article...informative, yes, comprehensive, kinda,
definitely interesting...you've done your homework, and it is a good
article, except that i think you lose a little credibility by bashing
n64 the whole time and not pointing out the good sides to it...i know
your stance on these systems, but the average reader who would come by
would not, (sorry, i'm a critic) and i just think that it wouldn't
hurt to put some of the good points in...any good argument for either
side not only shows the weaknesses but the positives also...at this
point, i need to stop this post, because i believe i'm rambling or
something...(sorry, but it's nice to have intelligent discussion from
time to time rather than system bashing and irrelevant cursing!)
Incoherent Man
Brass Hemmingway
Incoherent Man wrote:
> but what if, (and this being a big "if") the psx or saturn had to
> render on the fly? i know they're not built for that, but i think it
> is only fair to compare apples to apples, so to speak...if and when an
> n64 cd-rom comes out, we will finally be able to compare on the factor
> of putting polys on the screen, because, let's be honest here: it's
> easier to have a higher poly count if they are already pre-rendered
> and just need to be accessed off the cd...
process of drawing. In the case of IG, it is drawing polys to the
screen. If you have seen FFVII or VF2, then you have seen rendering on
the 32-bit systems.
"it's easier to have a higher poly count if they are already
the validity of your argument.
> well, once again, i agree, to a certain point...it all comes down to
> personal preference again...do you buy a game for its' cinema
> sequences? if so, then psx/saturn would be for you with its' cd
> format...i've got a pc, and have the entire wing commander series,
> which is about 40% game, and 60% cinema...fantastic...much better than
> n64 could be...but then i play n64 games to play the games, not watch
> a movie...
Actually yes. I do buy a game for its cinimas, you know why? Answer: It
enhances the game. If you have ever seen the ending to NiGHTS you would
be able to sympathise with me. Cinimas and music add atmosphere to games
which make them more satisfying and more worth-while. Sadly, these will
never be seen on the N64. Granted, some games reflect the dark side of
cinimas, but others exemplify their effectivness. Games with great
cinimas include: Panzer Dragoon Saga, FFVII, Grandia, NiGHTS. In most of
these cases the games were RPG's. The cinimas and music were used to
tell the story rather than leaving the players with stills and text. All
in all, cinimas make a helluva difference. They do enhance the game.
> sorry :) i'm quite the incoherent one, remember?
Forgive my previous harshness and don't allow it to intimidate your
future responses.
> no, but carts will always cost more than cds...cds are just
> cheaper...microsoft had a 90% profit margin or something like that
> (don't remember the article verbatim) because they have started
> shipping all of their software on cds instead of disks...it's cheaper
> that way...
Right. And CD's hold a LOT more. And CDs are likely to last longer than
carts. WHen you weigh all of the options CDs come out on top. The only
advantage that carts have are their low seek times. Honestly I do not
mind waiting a little between levels. For instance, NiGHTS has no
loading screens or noticible loading time. It is all done in the
background and is barely noticable. The saturn has a 2x CD ROM drive!!!
Imagine the loading times with a 16x (proposed for the black belt).
Troubles? That's because the loading time will simply be non-existance.
> yeah, well, i see your point here, and once again, i think we've
> reached this grey area for most of this discussion...so far, n64
> hasn't broken through, and defined a genre that it dominates...but
> then again, half the games out are just rehashes and ports, so i don't
> think we can start trying to decide its genre until that time
> comes...i wouldn't be surprised to see its genre become that of the
> mario64 type...i think banjo kazooie is supposed to be like that and
> with zelda being somewhat similar, i think you'll see that happen to
> be more of the case...
There... I made you think but before you cease your replys to my
messages, can you answer just one more of my questions. First I would
like to say that this is not a question based on cockiness or smart
humor. Question: Why and when did you buy your N64? Would you do it
again?
> i read your article...informative, yes, comprehensive, kinda,
> definitely interesting...you've done your homework, and it is a good
> article, except that i think you lose a little credibility by bashing
> n64 the whole time and not pointing out the good sides to it...i know
> your stance on these systems, but the average reader who would come by
> would not, (sorry, i'm a critic) and i just think that it wouldn't
> hurt to put some of the good points in...any good argument for either
> side not only shows the weaknesses but the positives also...at this
> point, i need to stop this post, because i believe i'm rambling or
> something...(sorry, but it's nice to have intelligent discussion from
> time to time rather than system bashing and irrelevant cursing!)
I would love to take credit for the article, but it isn't mine. Rather
it is written by my collegue S@INT 7. I would agree but can't change it
since I didn't write it. ;)
-Brass Hemmingway
Jesse Dorland
In a secluded warehouse,
on a pier somewhere in Maine,
gagged and at gunpoint,
>>low polygon counts on the characters. So is it indeed inferior? Yes,
>>considering that the PSX and Saturn can display more polys on the
>
>but what if, (and this being a big "if") the psx or saturn had to
>render on the fly? i know they're not built for that, but i think it
The PSX and Saturn *do* render on the fly. Any 3-dimensional game, unless it
is made up completely of FMV (which very few are), is rendered on-the-fly.
Both the Playstation and Saturn were built for 3D (but especially the PSX),
although the N64, with the extra time it had, was designed to be a more
powerful 3D machine than the 32-bit consoles.
>is only fair to compare apples to apples, so to speak...if and when an
I don't see any oranges anywhere, unless you are talking about video and
cutscenes. If you are, let me say that the person who was originally
comparing polygon counts was not talking about cutscenes. He was talking
about how many polygons/sec the machines could render in real-time.
Incoherent Man
>pre-rendered and just need to be accessed off the cd." Be careful with
>the validity of your argument.
duly noted.
>in all, cinimas make a helluva difference. They do enhance the game.
yes, but more often than not, programmers will substitute gameplay for
cinemas...i've played a few computer games which are 75% cinema, with
little to no actual involvement, and they bore me...if a programmer
can find the happy medium between gameplay and cinema, more power to
him...i enjoy the cinema as well, but not if it wipes out too much
gameplay...and really, most of the games for n64 don't need
cinema...it would just seem odd, don't you think? yes, rpgs are
greatly enhanced by cinema, but only if its done right.
>> sorry :) i'm quite the incoherent one, remember?
>Forgive my previous harshness and don't allow it to intimidate your
>future responses.
hehe...ok.
>Right. And CD's hold a LOT more. And CDs are likely to last longer than
>carts. WHen you weigh all of the options CDs come out on top. The only
and i wholeheartedly agree with you here...cds only make sense...i
don't understand why n64 doesn't use cds, but hey, i'm just a
consumer, right?
>humor. Question: Why and when did you buy your N64? Would you do it
>again?
i bought it around june...why? because i don't like the selection of
titles available for the saturn, and i didn't like the genesis so it
kept me out of sega, and my roommate at college had a psx, so i played
all manners of games on it this year, and i just didn't like it that
well...it was a nice system, but i found myself liking the n64 games
better...would i do it again? yes...only because i've tried most all
systems, and the psx is too close to my pc, and i just like the n64
games better...games like mkart64, m64, sote, starfox, these are the
games i enjoy playing and psx just has too many bad games for me to
bother with...yes, it does have good ones too, but my personal pref is
with the n64...
Incoherent Man
mai...@webtv.net
What it all comes down to is taste some people hate some games others
love them and as a (proud) owner of the N64 I really don't care what
they bring out. I'll borrow it and if I like it I might borrow it again
or maybe even buy it. I bought my N64 the first day and I only own three
games I'm planing on buying Goldeneye which lookes like a real good
game. I don't care if it turns out to be a waste of money I'll buy it
but I woldn't buy ISS Soccer or Tetrisphere I might borrow them but
there not the type of games I like. So what it all comes down to is
taste if it's PSX or SS or N64.
P.S. Nintendo 64 is the best and when the 64DD comes out it will get
even better.
Ranma Saotome
Look, I'll admit that Sega is ok, but come on, let's at least TRY to get
real here. The only good system Sega has put out is the Saturn, which
IS dying out. The PlayStation is an excellent system...especially since
it has a great line-up of games coming out soon. I already have Final
Fantasy 7 (The whole 3 disc game, not the Demo) and it is everything I
expected.....the only problem is that though an exceptional game with
'pretty' graphics, it doesn't allow the freedom of huge games like Turok
and even Mario 64. People tend to like games because of nice intro's
and cinematics, but I like a game, for the game itself, and the Saturn
and PlayStation just aren't capable of the HUGE amount of info which the
N64 is quite capable of handling. What's more is that Nintendo has not
even grazed 40% of the N64's abilities. The future looks great, but
only for those who can handle it.... unless Sega has "secret plans",
they really are doomed.
Jesse Dorland
In a secluded warehouse,
on a pier somewhere in Maine,
gagged and at gunpoint,
help:
>Look, I'll admit that Sega is ok, but come on, let's at least TRY to get
>real here. The only good system Sega has put out is the Saturn, which
>IS dying out. The PlayStation is an excellent system...especially since
A very informed statement. I presume you've never heard of the Master System?
It's hardware was superior to that of the NES, but it died out due to
Nintendo's strict third-party policy. The Genesis, for when it was released,
was a very advanced system as well.
>it has a great line-up of games coming out soon. I already have Final
>Fantasy 7 (The whole 3 disc game, not the Demo) and it is everything I
>expected.....the only problem is that though an exceptional game with
>'pretty' graphics, it doesn't allow the freedom of huge games like Turok
>and even Mario 64. People tend to like games because of nice intro's
An FF-style RPG with realtime 3D graphics is what I'm waiting for. Quest 64
looks to be the first of its kind (unless Wild Arms is completely in 3D; I'm
not sure). Earthbound 64 also looks VERY good. Apparently, the 64DD is
capable of more than people like to give it credit for. Some of the
environments in EB64 are as detailed and colorful as FF7's CG backgrounds.
Markus Mattes
>Actually yes. I do buy a game for its cinimas, you know why? Answer: It
>enhances the game.
Well that's just a matter of taste. I had a PSX and I'm NOT missing
any FMVs.
[...]
>in all, cinimas make a helluva difference. They do enhance the game.
No, they don't. They add something to the game, but the game itself is
not beeing enhanced in any way. It's just FMV and nothing more. Like I
said befor: I and many other people can live without them.
[...]
>Right. And CD's hold a LOT more.
Hmmm... I had to learn that they also hold a LOT more shit.
> And CDs are likely to last longer than carts.
lol. Nothing more to say, that was it. Disqualified.
ByE, MarKus.
( To reply by e-mail remove the 'R' in my e-mail address )
Azam Khan
I feel sorry for you guys...I just wish you understood the difference
between 32-bit and 64-bit hardware....but there is still hope for you.
James Herder wrote:
> bmurdoch wrote:
> >
> > As you guessed by the subject I hate the N64! Quality over Quantity
> > HAHAHAHA!!
> > #10. Shadows Of The Empire (first LVL was nice)
> > #9. Cruisin USA
> > #8. Mortal Kombat Trilogy
> > #7. Dark Rift
> > #6. NBA JAM
> > #5. Doom
> > #4. Hexen
> > #3. Cartridges
> > #2. High prices for SHITTY games
> > #1. Its a Nintendo product enough said.
> > Just for your information I own a PSX(sony playstation for the
> Nintendo
> > people who dont know) and I own a SEGA SATURN(my favourite) I manage
> a
> > video game store so believe me when I say Nintendo sucks and they
> are
> > the pits to work with.
> > BUT DONT WORRY N64 OWNERS IM SURE YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER GOOD GAME OR
> 2.
> > In 1998 that is!
>
> What are you talking about in 1998??? I don't think they will have
> Zelda
> done by that time. Unless they decide the bulky drive (hahahaha!!!!)
> will be done as well. Oh well maybe the suckers who bought N64 will be
>
> glad to own Cruisin the world or Earth Worm Jim 64 hahahaha!!!!! I
> feel
> sorry for the many people who bought the $200 doorstop that the
> Nintendo
> will become.
Incoherent Man
On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:16:18 GMT, mma...@rz-onlineR.de (Markus
Mattes) wrote:
>>in all, cinimas make a helluva difference. They do enhance the game.
>No, they don't. They add something to the game, but the game itself is
>not beeing enhanced in any way. It's just FMV and nothing more. Like I
>said befor: I and many other people can live without them.
the add something to the game, they enhance it...pretty thin line
there, isn't it?? if you take a game like tombraider, and take out
the cut-scenes, it's still a cool game...but i find that much of the
coolness of a game is seeing how the story folds out, not just playing
for no reason...at least you have some reason to be playing...
>> And CDs are likely to last longer than carts.
>lol. Nothing more to say, that was it. Disqualified.
and why does this disqualify his argument? it seems that your
arguments are very much polarized towards anti-cd/cinema, and that's
your choice, but before you dismiss someone for making a statement, at
least back yours up with some fact, rather than just an opinion...
Incoherent Man
Naz Reyes
Incoherent Man wrote:
>
> >humor. Question: Why and when did you buy your N64? Would you do it
> >again?
I bought an N64 because I was totally amazed at what it could do when
I sampled it at Blockbuster video. For a moment, I thought I was dreaming
while playing Mario 64. That's when I *knew* I had to have one :-)
I also sampled Tomb Raider on the Playstation at Funcoland since the
store clerk told me that this game is one of the best for the PSX. I liked
it but the loading times really turned me off. If the long loading times
weren't there, I would've bought the console. I may still buy it, but I'm
still thinking about it :)
I bought the N64 around March of '97, and yes, I would do it again.
Joseph Meyer
> > glad to own Cruisin the world or Earth Worm Jim 64 hahahaha!!!!! I
> > feel
> > sorry for the many people who bought the $200 doorstop that the
> > Nintendo
> > will become.
Now that was REAL Mature. feh.
N64 is NOT PSX! Once, again N64 is NOT PSX. Hell, if a game system brings
you joy, them more power to you. I remember the Turbo Grapix 16 with fond
memories. Phantasy Star 1 on the Master System was a gem. Even the bloody
3DO pulled off something good with Star Control 2, from what I hear. Stop
this HATE session and start talking GAMES!!!! Thank You.
Joe "Namen" Meyer
BTW: What games on "sucky" systems gave you some happiness?
Andrew Cox
Have you ever played "Return Fire" on the 3DO? I used to play that for
hours with my friends every day after school.
Andrew
Piergallini
> > And CDs are likely to last longer than carts.
Yeah right. Try this; put your favorite cart game and favorite CD game
on your favorite chair. Sit on your favorite chair. Hmmm... What's
left: a cart, and two halves of a CD. Then, stick that same cart and
your next favorite CD in your car and leave them data side up. Make
sure it is nice and hot and sunny. Wait 3 hours. Then go and play
them. The CD is blank. The cart will probably still work. Take the
cart and your next favorite CD and stick them in the microwave. The
cart will be destroyed. Then stick your CD in it, your microwave with
never work again, nor the CD.
Now you say the last one has nothing to do with longetivity, does it?
Nope, not at all. But the first two could happen. A cartridge will
last longer.
-Dan Piergallini
bac...@mindspring.com
ltaky
Me too had once says N64 sucks. But come on, I don't see the other
consoles are better. Besides, there's competitions in our world to make
improvement. And don't use CD capacity to judge Nintendo. Please! Even a
good game like Mario 64 don't use that much. CDs are for huge graphics,
which has nothing to do with the game programming itself. There sure is
space for N64 to do much more. Just wait, okay!
Playstation and N64 are the best. Sega is best for Saturn, but it needs
help......
Apologize for what I have said to N64 earlier if someone (there is
someone) feels offended. Now I just want to have a good game to play, no
matter what console I have. You can have more than one machine if you are
rich, so that you won't get unhappy if one console really upset you.
Finally I want everyone to end this silly debate (just my opinion).
Alfred
Ranma Saotome (RanmaS...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Look, I'll admit that Sega is ok, but come on, let's at least TRY to get
: real here. The only good system Sega has put out is the Saturn, which
: IS dying out. The PlayStation is an excellent system...especially since
: it has a great line-up of games coming out soon. I already have Final
: Fantasy 7 (The whole 3 disc game, not the Demo) and it is everything I
: expected.....the only problem is that though an exceptional game with
: 'pretty' graphics, it doesn't allow the freedom of huge games like Turok
: and even Mario 64. People tend to like games because of nice intro's
: and cinematics, but I like a game, for the game itself, and the Saturn
T McDonald
In article <33DB4E...@globalserve.net>,
Brass Hemmingway <deo...@globalserve.net> wrote:
>It seems I have a live one here. I hope you recognize who you are
>arguing with. Even more, I hope that you have done your research as I
>rarly enjoy wasting time. I think of this message and all following
>messages as "eye openers".
>
>
>It seems that the N64 does render on the fly with (minus the minimal
>popup, of course) with all effects applied producing a very nice
>looking polygon. The reason I say it is inferior is because of the
>number that it can comfortably push. That is why you see the pop-up and
>considering that the PSX and Saturn can display more polys on the
So you're a discriminating conisewer, a individual who's delicate pallet
prefers a lot of crap to some quality. This certainly goes a long way to
helping us understand your preference for CD's and the PSX.
>after it's competitors should have improved on EVERYTHING rather than
>just the polygon surface. Second seek time. I can't argue this. The N64
>has the fastest seek time ever. No other system can compare. The only
>problem is, the cartriges hold barely any information COMPARED to CD, of
>course. Seek time or no seek time, after tasting the cinimas on a CD, or
>hearing the perfectly orchastrated music (Q-sound, no doubt) I would
>have to admit that cartriges are indeed inferior despite their "low seek
>times."
If I wanna watch a movie I'll pop a platter in the LD player thanks. And
if it's music I want my stereo serves just fine, not that SoTE doesn't
deliver.
>Ah, my friend, but that's where the english language comes into play. If
>you look closely at my sentance you will find that the main subject is
>"games." Even my comment about cost follows a comment about games. It is
>this reason that I didn't need to describe what type of "cost" I was
>talking about. Granted, the systems cost around the same amount of
>money, but the games are far more expensive. Maybe not one or two, but
>if you are a hardcore gamer and want to buy all 14, it will take a huge
>chunk out of your wallet. Am I wrong?
If you are a "hardcore gamer", and have the time to master 14 different
games in under 12 months, I'd suggest you get off yer ass and give work a
try.
>Touchee my good friend. You raise an interesting argument, with fact, no
>doubt. There is only one inconsistancy that has been bugging me for some
>time now. When N64 owners defend their system they usually point out
>that each system has superior games depending on the genre. Now, here is
>the challenge: list some of them. Oh, and I would admit that Mario 64 is
>in a league of its own and is remarkable so you needn't add it.
This, goes under the heading of different strokes for different folks.
You have professed a fondness for lots of crap. That's your perogative,
you've no need to defend your preferences no more than I need defend mine.
Maybe some individuals differ in this philosophy, but that too is their
perogative.
>And your 2 cents have been noted. I take it you read my previous
>message, did you read the article on the N64 on my site. Do yourself a
>favour. I am not advertising or getting you to go to a lamo site, rather
>I am trying to rasie your awarness to a higher level than most of the
>kids in this newsgroup. What you will find is an informative,
>comprehensive and interesting article that you can agree or disagree
>with. check it out. http://www.globalserve.net/~deoent (talk cafe)
Well, I for one couldn't be happier that your site has blessed the peoples
of the world with the illumination of your profound wisdom. Now maybe if
more people had access to the infobaun they could expierience it too, and
the peoples of our humble planet would lay down their arms. Forsaking
violence, having been brought together, drawn to the illumination of your
web site as moths to a flame. Then maybe I could buy thhe world a coke
while everyone sings in perfect harmony. Ya know, that would make the
internet a truly super information highway.
"Sorry, thought I was Australian for a second" -- CROOoooooooOWWWWWW
Ranma Saotome
--WebTV-Mail-1539190415-59
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
To Jesse Dorland,
Umm, before you string me up and,... what was that..."gag" me??.....
You might want to take a closer look at what you're trying to argue with
me about.... because ......
<html> <font size=9> <font color= red> WE HAPPEN TO BE ARGUING ABOUT THE
SAME THING!!! </html>
--WebTV-Mail-1539190415-59
Content-Description: signature
Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
<html> <font color=silver> <font size=5) <marquee behavior=alternate> I am Ranma Saotome </marquee> </font size =5> </font color=silver> <center> <img src="http://www.aloha.net/~rj/ranma.jpg"> <u> <font size=2> <center> <font color=gold> <clock hour min sec> </u> </font size =2> </font color=gold>
</html>
--WebTV-Mail-1539190415-59--
*maSApo*
On 26 Jul 1997 06:24:33 GMT, "Pierre-Luc Chartier"
<ban...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>David Rodriguez <Wi...@webtv.net> wrote in article
><5rbe3j$kop$1...@newsd-111.bryant.webtv.net>...
>> He hates N64 and likes Sega. That explains the stupidity.
>>
>The SS is a good system for fighting games... so far. As soon as Nintendo
>and Capcom wake up, the N64 will FINALLY have good fighting games.
>
>I'm not even gonna talk about PSX... It can't even handle 2D fighters and
>Namco's joigned the N64 lineup, so...
>
the PSX has superior 2D capabilities, plus the core of the PSX is
faster, thus being able to crunch more polygons than the SS.
Namco going to N64? I don't think so. OH sure they made some chess
games and some kiddie baseball games in Japan, but that doesn't cut
it. They won't make Tekken for N64, because those games were designed
on the System 11/12 and that is designed with the PSX in mind.
Mind you, SFA2 for PSX and SS, the graphics are identical except the
PSX version uses more colours.
me...@earthlink.net
Azam Khan wrote:
> > glad to own Cruisin the world or Earth Worm Jim 64 hahahaha!!!!! I
> > feel
> > sorry for the many people who bought the $200 doorstop that the
> > Nintendo
> > will become.
So what do I care if you work at an electronics or video game store,
just because you say something doesn't make it true. I have been a VG
fanatic for nearly my whole life, and I have my own opinions.