Privateer B***S***

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Anthony Farmer

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Apr 8, 1994, 1:37:32 AM4/8/94
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The privateer ROB mission isn't explained very well in the docs, but it
sure seems like they can rob any amount of fuel they feel like.

Also, the blockade runners that are doing this to me then IMMEDIATELY tow
me away. Even if I have fuel and am moving away from them, they
overpower me. I think that's a load of crap. What gives?

- alf -

NELSON

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Apr 8, 1994, 10:46:28 AM4/8/94
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When the privateers rob, they can only take the fuel that they have room for
in their fuel tank. But you can have more than one ship rob.
If you're the privateers, and you want to rob a ship with a fuel capacity of
480 kt's, you need to have 2 MBRs rob it to insure that it is completely
drained. A good idea is to have a third ship there to tow it away the
same turn as you rob it, so that your victim does not have a chance to
refuel his ship. This is especially wise if you are robbing from a cloaking
race, and the rob cloaked ships option is turned off. I lost an MBR to a
romulan ship by not towing immediately.


>

David Furey

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Apr 8, 1994, 12:24:38 PM4/8/94
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a...@crl.com (Anthony Farmer) writes:

>The privateer ROB mission isn't explained very well in the docs, but it
>sure seems like they can rob any amount of fuel they feel like.

They can rob as much as they can hold...in a MBR case, 280 usually (best
leave 5 on just in case)

>Also, the blockade runners that are doing this to me then IMMEDIATELY tow
>me away. Even if I have fuel and am moving away from them, they
>overpower me. I think that's a load of crap. What gives?

This depends on your host. In 3.13e (the one i play) There have been a
few times where i coulnd't tow the other ship because it already had a
waypoint set and had more mass or more engines or something....i think
that's a relatively new feature...not sure though.

> - alf -

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Katy Stone

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Apr 8, 1994, 12:40:12 PM4/8/94
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You are playing against a potentially MIGHTY race, and seems they'be got
the potential.
ROB, an examaple:
Turn1
set cloak on, fly to planet to await enemy ship(s)
turn2--??
sitting around cloaked waiting for your ships to make that nice and
straight and PEDICIBLE course to the awaiting robber's den
turn3
enemy ship has arrived
set mission to ROB
set waypoint a few ly away
turn4
out in space, having successfully robbed your ship(s)
cloak
return to the planet to capture you fuelless ship(s)/re-rob/tow...


They'll rob until full. Therefore robbing in packs is advisable. :-)
NOTHING can break a Gravatonic's towing power. Suffer but enjoy the ride.

Tarmo Loorits

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Apr 8, 1994, 3:41:00 PM4/8/94
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> Anthony> Also, the blockade runners that are doing this to me then IMMEDIATELY tow
> Anthony> me away. Even if I have fuel and am moving away from them, they
> Anthony> overpower me. I think that's a load of crap. What gives?

They can tow you away only next turn after robbing or use other MBR
for towing.

>
> Well, you sound very upset!
>
> The MBR can outpull you because it has doubly strong engines.
> But, the privateers have strengths and weaknesses like any other race.
> They are extremely weak militarily, until they tow away enough enemy
> ships to build up a formidable armada.

Privateers are strongest race in this game when played properly
and when they can steal cloaked ships.
That they are militarily weak is nice mute. They have better
fighter ship then birds and doubled speed is great advantage
in military actions. MBR is quite capable ships even in normal
combat. It takes away most <= TL6 ships what have below 4 torps.
And it takes easily over most "well-defended" planets.
Especially powerful are privateers in unregistered games.

>
> There are many ways to defend against them, including:
> 1) uploading fuel to your ship on the turn that you are robbed and
> dragged away. The uploading occurs after rob and before movement, so
> when you stop you will be able to attack them. (They must uncloak to
> drag you away)

Yes, this unables them to steal your ships at your planets, but they
still can steal your fuel. And it is annoying to transfer all time
your fuel, not to talk that you sometimes need use other missions
instead of gather too.

> 2) laying huge mine fields. Their meteor class blockade runners are
> destroyed by a single mine hit. Moving 162 LY through a mine field is
> very likely to destroy their ship, even if it is cloaked. They must
> uncloak to drag your ships away, so mines are especially effective at
> stopping them from stealing your ships. Privateers seldom have high
> tech weapons (if they do, they don't benefit from their special beam
> weapon advantage, and they normally opt to build more MBR's rather
> than invest in big guns), so they won't be very effective at sweeping
> away your mines.

Of course minefields are good weapon againist P but you haven't enough
cash for extensive mining early in game. And note that with engine
shield bonus mine hit probably doesn't destroy MBR (not tested it yet).

>
> 3) laying web mines. Web mines are as effective at stopping cloaked
> and uncloaked ships.

Web mines are great againist Privateers but there only Crystals who
can lay these. Crystals are possibly bestest race againist Privateers.

>
> 4) find their home base quickly, and kill them early, before they
> become a real threat. You should be able to get the Evil Empire to
> give you the location of their home base, and maybe get some help from
> other players in knocking out this pesty menace!

Privateers are much faster and should have much better development
in beginning. They can brake easily your development when you become
hostile with them early in game. They should have much more cash,
minerals and fuel for mining their area early in game. They get
very likely first second starbase and have probably twice more
ships. Very likely you don't have Birds or Empire in neighbourhood
for figuring out their homebase and when they are, they better ally
with Privateer instead of destroying him.
And you can't destroy Privateer without knowing exactly where are
his starbases. When you touch down in some random planet with your
Gorbie or whatever good enough ship it is gone next turn even if
Privateer sacrifices one ship for this.
Some people think Privateer can steal only with cloaking ships.
No! 3 Lady Royale Cruisers and one MBR make up perfect team for
robbing dry every ship in game. How? You figure it out yourself.

Okey, Privateers are so strong only when guided by good player
and when he has lot of time for calculating. Privateer is
especially vulnerable for missing turns also.
If could really piss off Privateers if they can't rob cloaked
ships and there are hostile cloaking races.

I could suggest set higher 'rob fail' (10%) , 'cloak fail' ( 10%),
'damaged cloaking' (50%) to outbalance Privateers. Maybe not to
give one free fighter to them also ( they can steal fighters ).

I think also that Tim could make Rob mission to ship speciality
not to race specialty in next version. So could Privateer rob
only with ships what are made for this ( robbing needs unusual
kind of transporters ). 4 torps for MBR are way too much also.

Tarmo Loorits ( raising his shields for blamestorm )


John Reynolds

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Apr 8, 1994, 10:31:36 AM4/8/94
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>>>>> On 7 Apr 1994 22:37:32 -0700, a...@crl.com (Anthony Farmer) said:
In article <2o2qis$j...@crl.crl.com> a...@crl.com (Anthony Farmer) writes:

Anthony> The privateer ROB mission isn't explained very well in the docs, but it
Anthony> sure seems like they can rob any amount of fuel they feel like.

The privateers can steal up to their capacity of fuel, minerals,
supplies, and money. I don't know about colonists. The order of
events is:
Rob ship
Move
Combat

Anthony> Also, the blockade runners that are doing this to me then IMMEDIATELY tow
Anthony> me away. Even if I have fuel and am moving away from them, they
Anthony> overpower me. I think that's a load of crap. What gives?

Well, you sound very upset!

The MBR can outpull you because it has doubly strong engines.
But, the privateers have strengths and weaknesses like any other race.
They are extremely weak militarily, until they tow away enough enemy
ships to build up a formidable armada.

There are many ways to defend against them, including:


1) uploading fuel to your ship on the turn that you are robbed and
dragged away. The uploading occurs after rob and before movement, so
when you stop you will be able to attack them. (They must uncloak to
drag you away)

2) laying huge mine fields. Their meteor class blockade runners are


destroyed by a single mine hit. Moving 162 LY through a mine field is
very likely to destroy their ship, even if it is cloaked. They must
uncloak to drag your ships away, so mines are especially effective at
stopping them from stealing your ships. Privateers seldom have high
tech weapons (if they do, they don't benefit from their special beam
weapon advantage, and they normally opt to build more MBR's rather
than invest in big guns), so they won't be very effective at sweeping
away your mines.

3) laying web mines. Web mines are as effective at stopping cloaked
and uncloaked ships.

4) find their home base quickly, and kill them early, before they

Travis Cottreau

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Apr 8, 1994, 7:31:17 PM4/8/94
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In article <2o2qis$j...@crl.crl.com> a...@crl.com (Anthony Farmer) writes:
alf,

It sounds like you're just pissed off at being a victim of the Privateer.
The fact is, if you happen to be in the same place (at a planet for instance)
at the beginning of a turn as the Privateer, he can rob you blind. It sounds
like you were assaulted by not one, but two ships, but because you towed away,
you couldn't see the robbing ship. The first one robbed you, the second towed
you away (he can only rob or tow in one turn).

Travis Cottreau
cott...@newton.ccs.tuns.ca

Robert Jackson

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Apr 9, 1994, 2:58:06 PM4/9/94
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In our current game, we started with host 3.12d and I made alot of
tests and found, as per the docs, you could break any tow by setting a
waypoint 2 months out and going warp 9. Gravitonic ships included.
After switching to 3.14 and then 3.15, I find you CANNOT break a grav.
ships tow if that ship has transwarp engines and set to warp 9. An
unbeatable tactic.


: >
: > There are many ways to defend against them, including:


: > 1) uploading fuel to your ship on the turn that you are robbed and
: > dragged away. The uploading occurs after rob and before movement, so
: > when you stop you will be able to attack them. (They must uncloak to
: > drag you away)

With the unbeatable tow mission, they don't have to steal your fuel
to tow you away. They simply tow your ship to a waiting pack and rob
you next turn. So what if they lose an MBR. I would trade one for a
Gorbie/Golem/Cube/etc. any day.

:
: Yes, this unables them to steal your ships at your planets, but they


: still can steal your fuel. And it is annoying to transfer all time
: your fuel, not to talk that you sometimes need use other missions
: instead of gather too.

This becomes a moot point.
:
: > 2) laying huge mine fields. Their meteor class blockade runners are


: > destroyed by a single mine hit. Moving 162 LY through a mine field is
: > very likely to destroy their ship, even if it is cloaked. They must
: > uncloak to drag your ships away, so mines are especially effective at
: > stopping them from stealing your ships. Privateers seldom have high
: > tech weapons (if they do, they don't benefit from their special beam
: > weapon advantage, and they normally opt to build more MBR's rather
: > than invest in big guns), so they won't be very effective at sweeping
: > away your mines.

This is not that effective of a tactic. As long as their ships
travel the full 162 ly, even after taking several mine hits and 500%
damage, your ship still ends up at the waiting pack and you lose it.
Again, an MBR for a large carrier or battleship is good trade.


: Okey, Privateers are so strong only when guided by good player


: and when he has lot of time for calculating.

I don't mind that the Privateers can rob ships and then steal them.
Without the unbreakable tow, it does take a good player to guide them.
The tactics mentioned in this thread will work, but if you slip up or
the Privateer player is very crafty, he gets you ship. But with the
unbreakable tow, he just flies in, tows your ship to a waiting pack,
and its gone. He loses an MBR but the trade is certainly worth it.

At least having ships blow up at the point in the mine field where
damage exceeds 100% would be a good counter to the unbreakable tow.
Your ship might be 50-100 ly out but you have a chance to rescue it.

Bob Jackson

Michael R. Filiatrault

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Apr 10, 1994, 10:25:08 PM4/10/94
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As for large mine fields, Privateers should find an Amphibian planet and
build Gunboats (5 beam, cloaks, gravitonic) with Heavy Phasors. Each one
will destroy 500 Mines per turn, get two 1000/trn, four 2000/trn. Gunboats
are low tech and cheap, and the Heavy Phasors are pretty cheap too. You can
deplete any mine field quickly enough. Also in the FAQ is says to build MBR'
s with Gamma bombs and Disruptors or X-rays. I disagree, My advice, is
forget the 3Xkill beam bonus, rob, and put the best phasors on MBR's for
emergency mine sweeping/planet taking, and mark 4's. Players are going to
try to lay mucho amounts of mines to get rid of you, mine sweeping in vast
quantities taks away this tactic and hurts them financially. Also, don't be
afraid to jettison fuel to make room for robbed fuel.

More Advice: **** IT IS POSSIBLE TO TOW A SHIP *WITH* FUEL IN ITS TANKS AND
ITS MISSION SET TO KILL WITHOUT GETTING ATTCKED. Where you can have other
ships waiting to rob it silly. I will not divulge this secret just yet as I'
m using it presently in a game and there *is* a way to counter it. Maybe if
I'm having a good day I'll reveal it to a few people who email for it, but
only a few people. It is not a bug in the game, maybe a loophole, but
legitimate all the same.

Otherwise: Experiment with different things, and get Transwarp engines.

Mike

Tan Tot Lit

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Apr 11, 1994, 8:53:59 AM4/11/94
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Anthony Farmer (a...@crl.com) wrote:
: The privateer ROB mission isn't explained very well in the docs, but it
: sure seems like they can rob any amount of fuel they feel like.

They can rob until their tanks are full.

: Also, the blockade runners that are doing this to me then IMMEDIATELY tow

: me away. Even if I have fuel and am moving away from them, they
: overpower me. I think that's a load of crap. What gives?

If u got fuel, lay mines or fight them. If u are out of fuel, too bad
for u.

John Reynolds

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Apr 11, 1994, 2:27:09 PM4/11/94
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Everything you say about the Privateers being an extremely dangerous
opponent in the hands of an expert is true, but they are not
unbeatable. For example, it is NOT true that you will automatically
lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!

The privateers are lousy on defense, so you should have little trouble
destroying planet after planet using this method, with very little he
can do about it!

John

foster linwood ( bse meng)

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Apr 11, 1994, 9:32:07 PM4/11/94
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This is a post to the original poster. You think you are havimg problems with the Privateers, you haven't seen anything yet. I recently took over for the Federation in a BBS game. In this game the Priv.'s had been allowed to get too big. They wage a quick war against the Facists, and nearly wiped them out.When
the Rebel and Robots races finally got into the game, they waited a while, and then attacked the Priv's enmass. All this time I was building up my fleet, and generally cursing the previous player who had left me a large, pretty much worthless empire. To this day I have still not figured out why the HELL he armed 6 Nebula Cruisers with X-Ray lasers and Gamma Bombs.
Now to the Privateers. They withstood the Rebel's and Robot's initial charge. After that the war has become muddled, with planets and ships passing from one fleet to another, and back. Now I finally decided to get into the fight. I had amassed a large fleet of Thor's, Nocturne's, and Diplomacy. In one bold
manuever he robbed the entire fleet of fuel. The planet my ships were orbiting barely had enough fuel to power up the most powerful ships. In the following two turns he captured three ships and managed to destroy one of my Nova's around his homeworld. I'm not exactly pleased to say that I only destroyed three ships going in and critically damaged the planet. Now the second half of my fleet, 4 ships in all, are about to be stolen by them also. And I only have one ship in the area.
To say that I'm pissed at the Privateers is an understatement.
So as I was saying at the beginning of the post, the original poster isn't the only one with problems.

Linwood.

P.S. I only hope that the Lizards will be able to help me.

Thomas Voigt

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Apr 12, 1994, 6:17:59 AM4/12/94
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reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
>lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
>on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
>set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
>he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
>immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!

There is still a tactic that works for the Privateer.
Use a BR4 with Quantam drives (cheap, but faster than Twarp) to tow
attacking ships to your waiting MBR's (cloaked). You lose the
BR4 (not a big loss anyway), but you rob and capture the attacking
ship.
The only way to attack the privateers is to bait them (let them rob some
small ships to see where their bases are, maybe they are stupid enough
to tow the ships to several bases) and take out those bases.
Don't stop at planets on your way to these bases. But at the time
where the privateer has a lot of bases it's too late.

The best defense are minefields, many and dense (overlapping).

Ahhh, I shouldn't write this, I play the pirates in one game :-)

Thomas

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Tarmo Loorits

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Apr 14, 1994, 3:09:31 AM4/14/94
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> From: reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds)
> Subject: [News] Re: Privateer B***S***

>
> Everything you say about the Privateers being an extremely dangerous
> opponent in the hands of an expert is true, but they are not
> unbeatable. For example, it is NOT true that you will automatically
> lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
> on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
> set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
> he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
> immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!

What about unbreakable tow?

> The privateers are lousy on defense, so you should have little trouble
> destroying planet after planet using this method, with very little he
> can do about it!

Let me guess that Privateers just sits with his 100 MBR-s and
waits until you take planet by planet. More likely he gets same
time 3 your planets, some freighters and tows away/robs your
ship after your 'successful' raid.

Only solution I can see is to make mine path to his planet and
so on.

Tarmo Loorits


Thomas Voigt

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Apr 14, 1994, 11:21:39 AM4/14/94
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mic...@gomez.msfc.nasa.gov (Michael Wright ED23 System Administrator) writes:
>>If could really piss off Privateers if they can't rob cloaked
>>ships and there are hostile cloaking races.

>Nonsense. We have never allowed the privs to rob cloakers and have never
>seen an difficulty. The privs use the same defense on them (mines, mines,
>and more mines) and are more effective because of their range.

Idea :

The cloaking friend of any fighter race waits at all privateer bases
(Swift Heart is just great for it).
The privateer will capture one of the large carriers sooner or later
and tow it to one of their bases.

The cloaker transfers one kt fuel to the carrier, and boom ! the base
is gone.

Any comments ?

Michael Wright ED23 System Administrator

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Apr 14, 1994, 1:54:51 PM4/14/94
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voig...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Voigt) writes:

>The cloaking friend of any fighter race waits at all privateer bases
>(Swift Heart is just great for it).
>The privateer will capture one of the large carriers sooner or later
>and tow it to one of their bases.

>The cloaker transfers one kt fuel to the carrier, and boom ! the base
>is gone.

This idea would work and I recently had someone attempt to use it on me.
Fortunately, I caught his Swift Heart coming in with some overlapping mine-
fields. I wouldn't have lost my base, but I would have lost some MCBRs and
other support ships. His ship was a VIRGO with heavy disruptors and 60+
fighters.

Another player used a trick on me that succeeded. The ATT and NUK planet
missions do not preclude an enemy ship setting his ship's friendly code to one
of those and the ship mission to gather. He gathers fuel off your planet or
starbase and attacks whatever is there (Assume enemy set).

Later, Michael.
--
Michael C. Wright whit...@gomez.msfc.nasa.gov
NASA/MSFC/ED23 Huntsville AL 35812
(205) 544-1544 FAX: (205) 544-3554

jesper faergemann

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Apr 15, 1994, 4:14:50 AM4/15/94
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In article 2dac...@regio.tartu.ee, Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee> writes:
> > From: mic...@gomez.msfc.nasa.gov (Michael Wright ED23 System Administrator)

> > Subject: [News] Re: Privateer B***S***
>
> > Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee> writes:
>
> It is not me writing next part ...

>
> > >> 2) laying huge mine fields. Their meteor class blockade runners are
> > >> destroyed by a single mine hit. Moving 162 LY through a mine field is
> > >> very likely to destroy their ship, even if it is cloaked. They must
> > >> uncloak to drag your ships away, so mines are especially effective at
> > >> stopping them from stealing your ships. Privateers seldom have high
> > >> tech weapons (if they do, they don't benefit from their special beam
> > >> weapon advantage, and they normally opt to build more MBR's rather
> > >> than invest in big guns), so they won't be very effective at sweeping
> > >> away your mines.
> >
> > Not so the heavy disruptors with Mark 8's really extend the range of ships
> > that the privs can capture and aren't slouchs at clearing mines.
> > In a recent game I had the feds building mines, but my teams of about 10 to
> > 15 meteors kept it clear and dropped more on him.
>
> True.

>
> > >Of course minefields are good weapon againist P but you haven't enough
> > >cash for extensive mining early in game. And note that with engine
> > >shield bonus mine hit probably doesn't destroy MBR (not tested it yet).
> >
> > Unfortunately the engine shield bonus does not help here.
>
> Yes , I tested and it didn't help.

>
> > >If could really piss off Privateers if they can't rob cloaked
> > >ships and there are hostile cloaking races.
> >
> > Nonsense. We have never allowed the privs to rob cloakers and have never
> > seen an difficulty. The privs use the same defense on them (mines, mines,
> > and more mines) and are more effective because of their range.
>
> Maybe you do not but there are lot of games with this option ON and I
> could set it ON myself because it is silly to make hole in defence of
> so powerful race *laugh*.
> Mines are ok againist cloakers always but it takes lot of time and
> trouble to mine all your planets.
>
> > >give one free fighter to them also ( they can steal fighters ).
> >
> > I don't think this is true, but if it were it would only work with thier own
> > carriers.
>
> No, you misunderstood. They can't steal fighters alone but sure they
> can steal carriers WITH fighters. I think even this is preferred
> action for Privateer. Are you ever using ROB for getting some minerals?
> No, every Privateers robs ship only with plan to get it out of fuel.

>
> > >I think also that Tim could make Rob mission to ship speciality
> > >not to race specialty in next version. So could Privateer rob
> > >only with ships what are made for this ( robbing needs unusual
> > >kind of transporters ). 4 torps for MBR are way too much also.
> >
> > IMHO. This is just more nonsense from someone who has lost to the Privs. I
>
> WHERE ABOUT HELL YOU TAKE THIS?
> I have never had war againist Privateers and never lost to Privateers.
> Belive me I am going to ally him instead of starting war.
> I have just tested much, played with C-player and guided my friend,
> who is total newbie . It is enough to see how strong is Privateer.
> I see that Privateer can expand 2-3 times faster then any other
> race, except Cyborg ( it doesn't help poor guy ).
>
> > have won and lost games with the privs. They are not overly powerful. With
> > the knowledge of the new defense (Beam-Gather) I have been stumped by another
> > player and forced to an alliance. 4 torp to much for a MBR, what about a
> > Fed vendetta or the Rom Deth Specula?
>
> Try to lay mines or do sensor sweep and gather fuel same time.
> I put TOW-ROB trade againist your BEAM-GATHER defense and you are lost.
> I will lose ship, get your ship - you lose it ( with fighters maybe ).
> All ships what are not worth of BR get easily destroyed by MBR even
> with 2 torps ( this was just idea BTW ) .
>
> Tarmo Loorits
>
>

What is this BEAM-GATHER defence tactic ?? if somebody would share it with me or the whole internet it would be nice :)

Jesper Faergemann
jfa...@kom.auc.dk

Michael R. Filiatrault

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Apr 14, 1994, 10:43:43 PM4/14/94
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In article <REYNOLDS.94...@retina.bu.edu> reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
>From: reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds)
>Subject: Re: Privateer B***S***
>Date: 11 Apr 94 18:27:09

>John

I'm sorry, but your little strategy is futile. I wasn't going to post this
trick, but I think it would help a lot of people. Besides, privateers are
superior. Even if you've got fuel, a privateer can tow you off a planet
with no fuel in his tanks where he can then rob you silly without fear of
losing one ship. Just tow one light year from the planet, and you've
got a new ship! You can't be attacked if you have no fuel.

Sorry Buster, but you lose!
Mike

Michael Klug

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Apr 15, 1994, 8:50:40 AM4/15/94
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In article <2odsgn$8...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, voig...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Voigt) writes:
|> reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
|> >lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
|> >on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
|> >set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
|> >he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
|> >immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!
|>
|> There is still a tactic that works for the Privateer.
|> Use a BR4 with Quantam drives (cheap, but faster than Twarp) to tow
|> attacking ships to your waiting MBR's (cloaked). You lose the
|> BR4 (not a big loss anyway), but you rob and capture the attacking
|> ship.
|> The only way to attack the privateers is to bait them (let them rob some
|> small ships to see where their bases are, maybe they are stupid enough
|> to tow the ships to several bases) and take out those bases.

... that way you might end like General Custer. There IS a way, the Privateer can
slaughter your entire fleet, but I won't tell, since I am a Privateer ;-D

Michael Klug

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Apr 15, 1994, 8:55:41 AM4/15/94
to
In article <2ojn23$3...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, voig...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Voigt) writes:
|> mic...@gomez.msfc.nasa.gov (Michael Wright ED23 System Administrator) writes:
|> >>If could really piss off Privateers if they can't rob cloaked
|> >>ships and there are hostile cloaking races.
|>
|> >Nonsense. We have never allowed the privs to rob cloakers and have never
|> >seen an difficulty. The privs use the same defense on them (mines, mines,
|> >and more mines) and are more effective because of their range.
|>
|> Idea :
|>
|> The cloaking friend of any fighter race waits at all privateer bases
|> (Swift Heart is just great for it).
|> The privateer will capture one of the large carriers sooner or later
|> and tow it to one of their bases.
|>
|> The cloaker transfers one kt fuel to the carrier, and boom ! the base
|> is gone.
|>
|> Any comments ?
|>

... if there is only ONE Privateer ship with ROB SHIP in orbit, nothing will happen.
... the cloaker is likely to have a cloak failure while waiting. See above, ship lost.

CaptE

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Apr 15, 1994, 1:45:02 PM4/15/94
to
In article <mrf2.14....@cornell.edu>, mr...@cornell.edu (Michael R.
Filiatrault) writes:

I would be MOST interested in hearing about this tactic, and what version of
host it is usable on (ie. what version are you currently playing on?)

Christopher E. Ronnfeldt

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Apr 15, 1994, 4:13:19 PM4/15/94
to
-What is this BEAM-GATHER defence tactic ?? if somebody would share it with me
-or the whole internet it would be nice :)
-
-Jesper Faergemann
- jfa...@kom.auc.dk
-
-
The BEAM-GATHER defense is a simple one : beam your fuel down to the planet,
and set your mission to gather fuel. This prevents the Privateer from getting
very much fuel from you (at most the 1 kT that you leave in your ship), and
insures that you will have fuel after the rob mission is performed.

Chris
--
" Wilderness of mirrors - Streets of cold desire
My precious sense of honor - Just a shield of rusty wire
I hold against the chaos and the cross of holy fire "
N. Peart "Double Agent" 1993

GORDON PAYNTER

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Apr 16, 1994, 9:15:18 AM4/16/94
to
In article <mrf2.15....@cornell.edu>, mr...@cornell.edu (Michael R. Filiatrault) writes:
>
> I'm sorry, but your little strategy is futile. I wasn't going to post this
> trick, but I think it would help a lot of people. Besides, privateers are
> superior. Even if you've got fuel, a privateer can tow you off a planet
> with no fuel in his tanks where he can then rob you silly without fear of
> losing one ship. Just tow one light year from the planet, and you've
> got a new ship! You can't be attacked if you have no fuel.

Does this work? Seems to me that if you tow one light year from a planet the
warp well will just suck you back in again. And it seems unlikely that you
could tow without fuel and not have the towee break the tow. (nb: I haven't
tried it).

-- Gordon Paynter (g...@waikato.ac.nz)
I have a firm grip on reality. Now I can strangle it.

tjhama...@cc.helsinki.fi

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Apr 16, 1994, 10:12:15 AM4/16/94
to
In article <2ojn23$3...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>, voig...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Voigt) writes:
> Idea :
>
> The cloaking friend of any fighter race waits at all privateer bases
> (Swift Heart is just great for it).
> The privateer will capture one of the large carriers sooner or later
> and tow it to one of their bases.
>
> The cloaker transfers one kt fuel to the carrier, and boom ! the base
> is gone.
>
> Any comments ?

It works :-)
In one game I'm playing Rebels. Privateers robbed&towed my Rush w/90
fighters to one of their bases. Luckily I had a MCBR (sic) waiting
nearby. Boom. Privateers lost two Bloodfangs, a NFC and a SDSF.
Also, I got a free MCBR )again :-)
___________________________________________________________________________
TJ Hamalainen (Faculty of Science, University of Helsinki)
DECNET: HYLK::TJHAMALAINEN :-----------------------------
Bitnet: tjhamala@finuh : Sex is like bridge:
Internet: tjhama...@hylk.helsinki.fi : if you have a good hand,
tjhama...@hara.helsinki.fi : you don't need a partner.

Tan Tot Lit

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Apr 16, 1994, 1:43:28 PM4/16/94
to
John Reynolds (reyn...@retina.bu.edu) wrote:

: Everything you say about the Privateers being an extremely dangerous

Well, how abt using 1 ship to tow u out to another ship to rob it??
Any solutions??

Katy Stone

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Apr 16, 1994, 11:03:19 PM4/16/94
to
GORDON PAYNTER <g...@waikato.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>Does this work? Seems to me that if you tow one light year from a planet the
>warp well will just suck you back in again. And it seems unlikely that you
>could tow without fuel and not have the towee break the tow. (nb: I haven't
>tried it).
>
Doesn't sound like a "trick", just good planning. Here's what I think he
means for his "trick"...
Turn1: decloak and set tow mission, dump enough fuel so that you'll
run out of fuel somewhere during your towing.
Turn2: You've towed and run, but are now fueless, but also still alive.
Your other ships rendevouz<sp?> and rob the towed ship, transfering fuel
to the tower, which lives to fight again.

Robert Trifts

unread,
Apr 17, 1994, 12:24:00 PM4/17/94
to


R> In our current game, we started with host 3.12d and I made alot of
R>tests and found, as per the docs, you could break any tow by setting a
R>waypoint 2 months out and going warp 9. Gravitonic ships included.
R>After switching to 3.14 and then 3.15, I find you CANNOT break a grav.
R>ships tow if that ship has transwarp engines and set to warp 9. An
R>unbeatable tactic.

R>: > There are many ways to defend against them, including:
R>: > 1) uploading fuel to your ship on the turn that you are robbed and
R>: > dragged away. The uploading occurs after rob and before movement,
R>: > so when you stop you will be able to attack them. (They must
R>: > uncloak to drag you away)

I might add that the gather mission will only be effective when the
friendly codes match between ship and planet. Otherwise, a nice
privateer tactic is to beam down colonists on the same turn they rob. If
the planet is not well colonized, the privateers take it via ground
combat and the gather mission is defeated before it occurs. This is a
nice tactic but works in selective cases (low colonizations) where
the enemy gets lazy.

That does not make it unuseful. To an expanding empire the Privateers
are anethema. Sure, you don't rob the fuel when the enemy uses the
gather mission, but you DO rob the colonisits and supplies. Hit him
often enough, and the colonists are gone. (Also is a really nice way to
clear out minerals that the enemy has on his ship for building torps and
fighters.) With the colonists bled off, this means to expand he must use
the kill mission. If you are expanding in to Privateer space, the nice
tactic is for the privateer to take the colonists off of the planet.
Enemy comes in on kill - Does not work as the planet is uninhabited.
Next turn he does the beam down colonists - so does the Privateer and he
has more colonists thant the enemy - at the same time you Rob and the
ship is yours (assuming he didn't guess the friendly code!).

When pillaging in his planets where colonist to colonist battles are not
a realistic Privateer tactic, the simple counter is to mine the hell out
of the guy. Ships on Gather don't Sweep mines. Two or three MBR's
working in conjunction can ruin anybody's day - gather mission or not!
Combined with unbreakable tows to MBR cloaked wolfpacks and all this
talk of anti-privateer tactics becomes a little silly. A good privateer
player will beat you almost every time.

---
* CmpQwk #UNREG* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

John Reynolds

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Apr 17, 1994, 12:41:55 PM4/17/94
to

Michael Filiatrault,
You're correct, but you can still make it complicated for the
privateer by using the beam-and-gather technique, combined with mine
fields around the planet.

The privateers can be quite good on offense, but if they ever want to
keep a robbed ship, they have to take it to a starbase. The moment
they do that, you can destroy that base. Sure, you may lose the
attacking ship, but he's lost a valuable planet, and a starbase. And
if you swarm him with many smaller ships, he probably won't be able to
rob them all and tow them away.


M>> In article <REYNOLDS.94...@retina.bu.edu> reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
>From: reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds)
>Subject: Re: Privateer B***S***
>Date: 11 Apr 94 18:27:09


>Everything you say about the Privateers being an extremely dangerous
>opponent in the hands of an expert is true, but they are not
>unbeatable. For example, it is NOT true that you will automatically
>lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
>on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
>set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
>he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
>immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!

>The privateers are lousy on defense, so you should have little trouble
>destroying planet after planet using this method, with very little he
>can do about it!

>John

M>> I'm sorry, but your little strategy is futile. I wasn't going to post this
M>> trick, but I think it would help a lot of people. Besides, privateers are
M>> superior. Even if you've got fuel, a privateer can tow you off a planet
M>> with no fuel in his tanks where he can then rob you silly without fear of
M>> losing one ship. Just tow one light year from the planet, and you've
M>> got a new ship! You can't be attacked if you have no fuel.

M>> Sorry Buster, but you lose!
M>> Mike

John Reynolds

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Apr 17, 1994, 12:46:49 PM4/17/94
to

Beam all your fuel down to a planet you own, and set your mission to
"gather neutronium". The ship will beam up the fuel after the
privateer has finished robbing your empty tanks. The privateer
counter to this maneuver is to tow you away from the planet, burning
all his fuel, so he winds up at your location, but without fuel so you
can't attack him. Next turn he can rob you of your fuel, and since
you're no longer over the planet, you will lose your fuel. However,
he still can't tow you away while cloaked, and since the MBR is killed
by one mine hit, he is very vulnerable to mine fields (especially web
mines!). He could of course, cloak and return to the planet for
another robbery!

John Reynolds

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Apr 17, 1994, 1:03:36 PM4/17/94
to

I gave my ships exactly the fuel needed to move to their waypoints,
and when they got there, they still had 5 kt of fuel! Why is this?
John

John Reynolds

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Apr 17, 1994, 1:12:30 PM4/17/94
to

Tan> Well, how abt using 1 ship to tow u out to another ship to rob it??
Tan> Any solutions??

Same story. If you use beam-and-gather, your ship will have fuel
after robbing, and the towing ship will have to contend with you when
it reaches its destination. If it still has any fuel, that is!

>>>>> On 16 Apr 1994 17:43:28 GMT, isc3...@leonis.nus.sg (Tan Tot Lit) said:
In article <2op840$o...@nuscc.nus.sg> isc3...@leonis.nus.sg (Tan Tot Lit) writes:

Tan> : Everything you say about the Privateers being an extremely dangerous
Tan> : opponent in the hands of an expert is true, but they are not
Tan> : unbeatable. For example, it is NOT true that you will automatically
Tan> : lose your ship if it takes a privateer planet. Just take the planet
Tan> : on turn N and on turn N+1, download all fuel (except 1) to planet, and
Tan> : set mission to gather neutronium. If the privateer tries to rob you,
Tan> : he's wasting his time 'cuz he gets no fuel, and if he doesn't leave
Tan> : immediately, you destroy him, 'cuz you still got fuel!

Tan> : The privateers are lousy on defense, so you should have little trouble
Tan> : destroying planet after planet using this method, with very little he
Tan> : can do about it!


Michael R. Filiatrault

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Apr 17, 1994, 5:17:58 PM4/17/94
to
In article <REYNOLDS.94...@retina.bu.edu> reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
>From: reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds)
>Subject: Re: Privateer B***S***
>Date: 17 Apr 94 16:41:55


>Michael Filiatrault,
>You're correct, but you can still make it complicated for the
>privateer by using the beam-and-gather technique, combined with mine
>fields around the planet.

One way to combat the mines is to have yet another ship like a BR4 with
heavy phasors to mine sweep just as one robs and tows, just in case mines
were laid. But yes, if a privateer doesn't have the number of ships to pull
this off correctly, he will fail. But privateer ships are cheap, so he
should have lots of them to gang up on emeny ships.

>The privateers can be quite good on offense, but if they ever want to
>keep a robbed ship, they have to take it to a starbase. The moment
>they do that, you can destroy that base.

I assume you mean that a cloaked ship orbiting planets transfers fuel.

> Sure, you may lose the
>attacking ship, but he's lost a valuable planet, and a starbase. And
>if you swarm him with many smaller ships, he probably won't be able to
>rob them all and tow them away.

This is a weakness, that is why I usually build a 1/1/1/1 starbase near the
battle zone solely for the purpose of forcing surrenders. I also hear in a
previous post that if I keep a ship on "rob ship" around the starbase, I
will rob the fuel before he can attack. I don't know what will happen in
that case.

With gravity wells, tow 3 ly away from planet instead of one.

Towing with "just enough" fuel is dangerous because sometimes one can still
end up with fuel on the ship even though the computer said that it would
take X kt. A ship might dump cargo or lay mines, and therefore you tow a
lighter ship and use less fuel and might have fuel left over.
If you tow with zero fuel in your tanks, you can have no worries about
getting attacked, you can set the exact location to where you tow and have
cloaked ships meet you there.
Unbreakable towing on impulse power does seem cheesy. But cheese is good.
The more ships invloved with the whole operation, the better. One can then
be sure that all the fuel is off the ship to be robbed, the area is clear of
mines, and you rob and tow in the same turn to eliminate hassles.

Mike

Katy Stone

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Apr 18, 1994, 12:30:42 AM4/18/94
to
Unfortunately Planets doesn't figure in the fact that as you fly you
burn fuel, and thus become lighter, which makes you more fuel efficent,
which ends up saving you fuel, which causes you to still have those 5kts
onboard.
I have successfully run myself out of fuel, often in fact. A Med Frt
flying money to a starbase. It always is @ zero fuel, and the privs have
yet to become smart enough to tow it away.. yet there I am, building up
the fighters every other turn that they just killed! :-)

Katy Stone

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Apr 18, 1994, 12:35:14 AM4/18/94
to
Michael R. Filiatrault <mr...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>This is a weakness, that is why I usually build a 1/1/1/1 starbase near the
>battle zone solely for the purpose of forcing surrenders. I also hear in a
>previous post that if I keep a ship on "rob ship" around the starbase, I
>will rob the fuel before he can attack. I don't know what will happen in
>that case.
>
You've been mis-informed. You can set to ROB and sit at your starbase,
but ROB happens before movement:
ROB (nothing there yet)
Move (enemy enters orbit)
Attack (boom, your toast) :-)

Katy Stone

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Apr 18, 1994, 12:37:46 AM4/18/94
to
This is fine, but you MUST have fuel to ROB. The Priv will have to meet
some friends in order to have fuel transfered (or the little friends just
Rob).

Thomas Voigt

unread,
Apr 18, 1994, 5:36:13 PM4/18/94
to
boso...@u.washington.edu (Katy Stone) writes:
>Doesn't sound like a "trick", just good planning. Here's what I think he
>means for his "trick"...
>Turn1: decloak and set tow mission, dump enough fuel so that you'll
>run out of fuel somewhere during your towing.
>Turn2: You've towed and run, but are now fueless, but also still alive.
>Your other ships rendevouz<sp?> and rob the towed ship, transfering fuel
>to the tower, which lives to fight again.

Risky strategy, a good player will always change the weight of his
ships if the Privateer uses this strategy. Combined with rob-gather
you end up with either a destroyed Meteor (if it still has fuel)
which isn't too tragic if you rob the other ship fuelless and get it,
or (worse case) you haven't enough fuel and end up in space, so
your enemy can tow your ship to his base or destroy it ...

John Reynolds

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Apr 18, 1994, 1:38:30 PM4/18/94
to
>>>>> On Sun, 17 Apr 1994 21:17:58, mr...@cornell.edu (Michael R. Filiatrault) said:


>> battle zone solely for the purpose of forcing surrenders. I also hear in a
>> previous post that if I keep a ship on "rob ship" around the starbase, I
>> will rob the fuel before he can attack. I don't know what will happen in
>> that case.

Robbing ships occurs before movement. If you set your ship to rob, it
will try and rob while the enemy is out in space, then be destroyed
after he moves onto the starbase.
John

Robert Trifts

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Apr 19, 1994, 1:08:00 AM4/19/94
to

%f>The cloaking friend of any fighter race waits at all privateer bases
%f>(Swift Heart is just great for it).
%f>The privateer will capture one of the large carriers sooner or later
%f>and tow it to one of their bases.

%f>The cloaker transfers one kt fuel to the carrier, and boom ! the base
%f>is gone.

Not sure on the order here - but I BELIEVE that the force surrender
starbase mission will go off BEFORE the transfer fuel mission. Moreover,
if it does not, then another ship in orbit around the base set on Rob
will nullify the strategy (Gather circumvents robbing - transfer does
not).

Let me know if the above analysis is correct...

Robert Trifts

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Apr 19, 1994, 1:57:00 AM4/19/94
to

J>What is this BEAM-GATHER defence tactic ?? if somebody would share it
J>with me or the whole internet it would be nice :)

Beam Gather Defense is an anti-privateer tactic of limited value.
Let's assume a nice fat target like a Virgo. It works thusly:

1)Virgo goes to planet on kill. Virgo takes planet.
2)Privateer is waiting at planet cloaked.
3)Virgo "beams" all but one of his fuel down to planet and sets mission
to "Gather" Fuel. Virgo plots move and carries on.
4)Next turn, Rob mission goes off - gets one fuel from Virgo only.
5)Virgo gets all fuel on planet beamed up with gather and moves on
supposedly circumventing the rob tactic.

There are counters for this by the privateer:
1)On turn that Virgo takes planet, privateer beams down colonists. If
Virgo owner has not reset friendly codes on planet to match ship, Gather
will be defeated by Privateer as the ground combat occurs before gather
(yes i have tested this and verfied it). Privateer should win as Virgo
likley leaves only one colonist if he took it on kill - if not...
2)If hordes of colonists, and privateer loses ground attack, this
counter fails and fuel will be beamed up - however, other ships booty
will get stolen, starting with the minerals and working down through
supplies until the Priv is grabbing your colonists. Next planet - you
usually don't have any colonists so you must use the kill mission
(assuming expanding empire here).
3)Matching friendly codes always override the privateer ground combat
option. But sloppiness here can be a killer, and at later stages of the
game, even experienced players get careless. Plus - players have to
remeber to switch the codes back or privateer now has your ship's
friendly code after he takes the planet (potential disaster waiting to
happen)
4)Multiple privateer ships beam down colonists - maybe it works - maybe
it doesn't and he robs. Other MBR in orbit lays mine field. Virgo moves
out without sweeping as you can't sweep and gather silmultaneously. Boom
- he takes damage - and probably has no supplies to fix it as you just
robbed them all. Ditto on minerals for fighter building.( If any nearby
ship of colonials sweep this may be a defense to this.)
5)There was a suggestion by another reader here for the privateer to
dump some fuel at the planet and then tow the Virgo to deep space - key
is to dump enough fuel on planet so that MBR will be out of fuel at end
of tow. Gather goes off - Tow goes off - Combat does NOT go off as MBR
is out of fuel. Next turn Priavateer robs. Personally - if i owned the
Virgo i would dump all my fuel immediately and wait for drift to
possibly disentangle the ships and then rescue it. The tow till out of
fuel tactic can work - but there is a better way...
6)Sacrificial Lamb & Wolf pack Attack: Virgo kills planet, beams and
gathers. MBR says "like i care" and tows Virgo to "nearby" waiting
cloaked MBR's. Combat occurs and MBR gets destroyed. Conventional wisdom
says "NOW you ROB" except - WAIT - if ships move without fuel switch is
on the only way you can tow to waiting cloaked wolf pack is if they are
above a planet. IF the planet was owned at the start of comabat - you
can be sure the Virgo owns it after the combat and you aren't ahead of
the game at all - he just beams and gathers again. This can go own for a
while to great delaying effect, but it deosn't get the Virgo and burns
off alot of MBR's.
7) SOLUTION TO DEFEATING BEAM GATHER TACTIC: Have Wolf pack above
UNOWNED planet. Now after killing MBR Virgo doesn't take the planet. If
you have robbed his colonists - he can't beam and gather safely as a
smart privateer will BEAM down colonists with the wolf pack same turn he
robs - voila - one Virgo, slightly used but quite serviceable, "Beam-
Gather" mission notwithstanding.

Mark Hesidence

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Apr 19, 1994, 8:06:00 AM4/19/94
to
In article <REYNOLDS.94...@retina.bu.edu>, reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes...

>
>Tan> Well, how abt using 1 ship to tow u out to another ship to rob it??
>Tan> Any solutions??
>
>Same story. If you use beam-and-gather, your ship will have fuel
>after robbing, and the towing ship will have to contend with you when
>it reaches its destination. If it still has any fuel, that is!

What "Tan>" means is that the privateers use the unbreakable tow to
tow a ship to 2 or 3 cloaked MBR's. Yes the privateer loses one MBR
because it will end its turn with fuel uncloaked, but there are also
2 or 3 cloaked MBR's ready to rob the towed ship next turn. And thus
the privateer capture a (hopefully) a battleship or carrier and there
is nothing that can be done to stop this.

The only thing I can think of is to beable you can lay more mines than
the privateer lay and/or sweep.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Man: "What is your favorite color?" Mark Hesidence
Knight: "Blue." mrh...@zeus.tamu.edu
Old Man: "What is your quest?"
Knight: "To find the Holy Grail."
Old Man: "What are the three letters not used as modifiers to
the ls command for UNIX BSD 4.3?"
Knight: "What? AHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

GORDON PAYNTER

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Apr 21, 1994, 2:08:56 AM4/21/94
to
In article <60.5387.54...@canrem.com>, robert...@canrem.com (Robert Trifts) writes:

[snip]


> 6)Sacrificial Lamb & Wolf pack Attack: Virgo kills planet, beams and
> gathers. MBR says "like i care" and tows Virgo to "nearby" waiting
> cloaked MBR's. Combat occurs and MBR gets destroyed. Conventional wisdom
> says "NOW you ROB" except - WAIT - if ships move without fuel switch is
> on the only way you can tow to waiting cloaked wolf pack is if they are
> above a planet.

No it isn't. Just pick a point such as (1900,2400) and have the Wolf
pack wait there. (Use the Y key to diosplay co-ordinates.) Or better yet,
just set your waypoint to a stationary, cloaked member of the wolfpack,
- don't intercept, just set your waypoint on the stationary ship.

Also, a small technical point - the beam gather defense is to stop you
being robbed immediately, I thought - it was never meant to protect you
from a Privateer who was going to sacrifice a ship. If you're going to
scacrifice the ship anyway, then just tow it - don't muck around trying
to mostly empty it of fuel first.

There isn't much you can do about that, except second-guess the
privateer. I once towed a Nutronic fuel carrier full of fuel with
ID number 16 into battles so that the privateer couldn't steal my
only Crystal Thunder & Diamond Flame.

bye,
Gordon

Michael Liebetanz

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Apr 21, 1994, 7:40:50 AM4/21/94
to
Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee> writes

TL> I could suggest set higher 'rob fail' (10%) , 'cloak fail' ( 10%),
TL> 'damaged cloaking' (50%) to outbalance Privateers. Maybe not to
TL> give one free fighter to them also ( they can steal fighters ).

rob fail, perhaps
cloak fail _no_, because the BirdMen will be pretty useless.
(and the advantages of Lizzies and Fascists will be almost gone)

"damaged cloaking"... this will (according to my understanding) not harm the
Priv but only help the Bird because i did not see a lot of damaged Priv-Ships in
my universes.... a MBR touches a mine ->gone
with 50% the Dwarfstar will (besides the DarkWing) survive a minehit cloaked.

Michael

John Reynolds

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Apr 22, 1994, 1:06:19 PM4/22/94
to
>>>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 94 01:57:00 -0400, robert...@canrem.com (Robert Trifts) said:


Robert> i would dump all my fuel immediately and wait for drift to
Robert> possibly disentangle the ships and then rescue it. The tow till out of
Robert> fuel tactic can work - but there is a better way...

What is drift?


Robert>...if ships move without fuel switch is
Robert> on the only way you can tow to waiting cloaked wolf pack is if they are
Robert> above a planet.


You can't tow a ship which has no fuel? I don't understand.
Thanks, John

Michael R. Filiatrault

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Apr 22, 1994, 5:01:31 PM4/22/94
to
In article <REYNOLDS.94...@retina.bu.edu> reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds) writes:
>From: reyn...@retina.bu.edu (John Reynolds)
>Subject: Re: Privateer B***S***
>Date: 18 Apr 94 17:38:30

I guess I didn't write that clearly. What I meant to say, was in response
to the enemy keeping a swift heart cloaked around my starbase, and then when
I tow in his big ship that I just robbed, the swift heart transfers fuel,
and the big ship attcks and kills my starbase. Or, if someone cloaked
around a starbase or planets uncloaks and attacks, will I rob off his fuel
right after he uncloaks and before he attacks, or is he still cloaked when I
rob?
Mike

Tarmo Loorits

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Apr 24, 1994, 2:31:28 AM4/24/94
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> To: ta...@regio.tartu.ee
> From: Michael_...@patsenga.schiele-ct.de (Michael Liebetanz)
> Organization: PatSenga Freiburg
> Subject: [News] Privateer B***S***
> Date sent: Thu, 21 Apr 94 13:40:50 +0200

> Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee> writes
>
> TL> I could suggest set higher 'rob fail' (10%) , 'cloak fail' ( 10%),
> TL> 'damaged cloaking' (50%) to outbalance Privateers. Maybe not to
> TL> give one free fighter to them also ( they can steal fighters ).
>
> rob fail, perhaps
>
> cloak fail _no_, because the BirdMen will be pretty useless.
> (and the advantages of Lizzies and Fascists will be almost gone)

Dunno about Lizzies or Fascists but cloaking is not whole life
for them. Birdies could manage well even with 50% cloak fail.
They are second race after Crystal who could piss off Privateers.
I think cloaking should be risky business and absolute cloaking
is bit out of my taste. Or how you name that you could plant
your ship to enemy homebase for 100 turns and be uncatchable.

> "damaged cloaking"... this will (according to my understanding) not harm the
> Priv but only help the Bird because i did not see a lot of damaged Priv-Ships in
> my universes.... a MBR touches a mine ->gone
> with 50% the Dwarfstar will (besides the DarkWing) survive a minehit cloaked.

Oh well, I took this just out of thin air but what about 99% then?
There should be some defense againist cloaking ship, even when it
is DarkWing.

Tarmo Loorits

John Bickers

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Apr 27, 1994, 2:27:41 AM4/27/94
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Quoted from <2dba...@regio.tartu.ee> by Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee>:

> I think cloaking should be risky business and absolute cloaking
> is bit out of my taste. Or how you name that you could plant
> your ship to enemy homebase for 100 turns and be uncatchable.

I think the problem is not with cloaking itself, but with the
devastating effects some races can have with cloaking. The
Privateer Rob mission and the Lizard clan combat advantage are the
big problems, because they deny the enemy an opportunity to
prevent significant strikes.

Cloaking does not empower either the Birds or the Fascists as much
as it does the Privateers and the Lizards, because they just don't
have such damaging missions.

To put it another way, the Birds and the Fascists use cloaking for
surprise, which (IMHO) is what it should be used for. The other
two can also use it to make their special missions much more
powerful than they are already, and that is where the "problem"
lies.

One (possible?) solution would be to (a) give all Priv. cloakers
much less fuel capacity, and (b) give all Lizard cloakers much
less cargo space.

> Tarmo Loorits
--
*** John Bickers, TAP. jbic...@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** Viscount Templar, Deadly, Cobra Mk III (FM-287) ***

Michael Liebetanz

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Apr 25, 1994, 4:47:02 PM4/25/94
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Tarmo Loorits <TA...@regio.tartu.ee> writes


TL> Birdies could manage well even with 50% cloak fail.

all above 20% fail and the Superspy is useless (and exploring the planet is very
risky)
Fighterraces with plenty of Neut will Intercept everything except DW's (and even
those) and with 50% the will have a 1 : 2 chance to toast the intruder

TL> I think cloaking should be risky business and absolute cloaking
TL> is bit out of my taste.

let's say 1% or at max 3%..

TL> Or how you name that you could plant
TL> your ship to enemy homebase for 100 turns and be uncatchable.

the Fascists can :-):-):-) ( Unification I and II :-) )

>> the Priv but only help the Bird because i did not see a lot of damaged
>> Priv-Ships in my universes.... a MBR touches a mine ->gone with 50% the
>> Dwarfstar will (besides the DarkWing) survive a minehit cloaked.

TL> Oh well, I took this just out of thin air but what about 99% then?
TL> There should be some defense againist cloaking ship, even when it
TL> is DarkWing.

any Starbase with 40 Fighters (+ perhaps 8-10 of the planet) will do the job.

do you realize the problems of attacking with DW's deep in the enemys country?

for borderattack with planethopping, there is no difference between a cloaker
and a "normal" ship...as the attacker isnt seen before the attack.

to make a sneak attack on the second or third planetline, you must amass amounts
of Fuel and therefore some logistic...
a DW with 100 Torps weighs around 675 kT... with a full fuel load of 290 kT
Neut the DW will go around 320 LJ..
that means... starting on your borderline with 1 range of enemy planets about
every 80 LJ you can go to the 4th line of your enemy, but if your choosen planet
is a well defended-starbase, you will get stuck there. Therefore the 3rd line is
advisable... and you must hope that the fuelconsumption for cloaking do not work
and that the choosen planet has some fuel on it for the way home or to go
elsewhere.

And one DW, even in the heart of your enemy is not enough to stop his attack, as
you cannot stop his Carriers (you need at least 2 DW per Carrier)

Michael

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