TR3 and carbunkles
Marty Fremen
one of a job lot of 4 games I bought for a tenner (the others being the
strangely familiarly named Tomb Raider 1 and Tomb Raider 4.)
Anyhow I started as always with the training level.
The first thing I noticed about Lara's mansion in TR3 was the nice ambience
of evening light which gave it a sophisticated look. But appearances of
sophistication were deceptive: the mansion has had major hatchet-job
alterations, e.g. the ploughing up of the nice maze for a tacky quad bike
track, and strange concrete growths on the exterior (eg. over Lara's
balcony) of the sort Prince Charles would describe as a "carbunkle".
Really, someone should have reported Core Design to Engligh Heritage for
these travesties!
Anyhow, I was soon bogged down in trying to solve the secrets of the
training area. Simply finding the key for the door to the (erstwhile) maze
involved a sequential set of tasks of such fiendish difficulty that I began
to wonder, if it's this hard just to be allowed to have a practice run on
the quad bike, what is the real game going to be like?!
Anyhow, eventually I noticed the secret corridor high in the chimney, and
after being burned alive several times finally discovered how to extinguish
the fire below it, and along the way also discovered the giant aquarium
filling the cellar, which was more like something out of a James Bond movie
than an English country mansion: does Lara sit down there stroking a white
cat, I wondered?
I've been trying to get the quad bike out of the maze into the grounds but
without success. Looking around online I see that it's said you can do a
handbrake turn off the hedge in the middle of the course onto the platform
in the gateway but I keep falling off the hedge when I try to position the
bike. Has anyone ever got the bike out of the circuit? I suppose what's
needed is a level editor to remove a bit of hedge or reposition the bike
but although I have a program (Pixstr) that lets you amend textures and
objects it doesn't reveal any layout maps in the level files.
In the meantime I've just completed the first jungle level too, and have
been wondering about the possibility of a shortcut across the swamp which
leads directly to the exit. Looking at an online walkthrough I see you're
supposed to be able to jump over a bit of greenery up in the trees and make
your way along the treetops, but try as I might I simply can't manage to
jump over the pointed green bit that bars the way. I also looked at gaining
the stone ledge on the other side which looks like it ought to be
accessible but so far I can't find a route despite several promising leads.
Finally I've been probing the secrets of the swamp but that also seems
impassible. Some detective work reveals that where the base of the swamp
slopes down gently you can walk out even from a submerged position, but
most of it seems to form a deep sump with vertical edges which you can't
climb out of once submerged. The trouble is the only gently sloping exit
section is right at the far corner, much too far away to reach since Lara
walks very slowly when under the mud, and her air supply is unnaturally
short compared to when swimming. (I found all this out by replacing the mud
texture with a transparent surface using PixStr - it doesn't reveal the
base of the swamp (which has no rendering) but you can determine where it
is at a given point by observing Lara's position in the transparent
blackness and see whether she is walking up or down a slope, also gauge her
depth from how far away she looks: it seems to be several blocks deep for
the most part.)
Oh well, only another 19 levels to go!
McG.
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9C1EDE7...@212.23.3.119...
Laras Home (Mansion) in TR3 really is a kind of mini game in itself. For
me, TR3 is the very best of ALL Tombraider games as far as the gameplay
itself goes. I could ask you a few things now about the first two TR's.
Did you really play them to death? How much do you think you actually saw
of Tombraider? Have you been up ON the Mansion yet? Have you swan dived
from the chimney on the roof in any of the first 3 games Mansion? Do you
even know how to get up there? Have you played the expansion levels for
Tombraider? Shadow of the Cat in particular. Do you know of The Deadly
Sands in that level? No? Hmm. Seems you haven't really played it to
death yet. :-)
WE in here had to wait a long time between games. Some of us got a bit
creative in finding things for Lara to do. ;-)
McG.
John Whitworth
news:4a26c172$0$22959$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
> "Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C1EDE7...@212.23.3.119...
>> Having done Tomb Raider 2 to death I've now started playing Tomb Raider
>> 3,
>> one of a job lot of 4 games I bought for a tenner (the others being the
>> strangely familiarly named Tomb Raider 1 and Tomb Raider 4.)
>>
I envy you. I wish I could discover the whole lot for the first time again!
:-)
Etal
> In the meantime I've just completed the first jungle level too, and have
> been wondering about the possibility of a shortcut across the swamp which
> leads directly to the exit. Looking at an online walkthrough I see you're
> supposed to be able to jump over a bit of greenery up in the trees and make
> your way along the treetops, but try as I might I simply can't manage to
> jump over the pointed green bit that bars the way. I also looked at gaining
> the stone ledge on the other side which looks like it ought to be
> accessible but so far I can't find a route despite several promising leads.
>
I think i remember that after reading in a walkthrough that i
tried a diagonal jump over water for a big shortcut, but i was
never even close so i gave up quite fast with trying that.
> Finally I've been probing the secrets of the swamp but that also seems
> impassible. Some detective work reveals that where the base of the swamp
> slopes down gently you can walk out even from a submerged position, but
> most of it seems to form a deep sump with vertical edges which you can't
> climb out of once submerged. The trouble is the only gently sloping exit
> section is right at the far corner, much too far away to reach since Lara
> walks very slowly when under the mud, and her air supply is unnaturally
> short compared to when swimming. (I found all this out by replacing the mud
> texture with a transparent surface using PixStr - it doesn't reveal the
> base of the swamp (which has no rendering) but you can determine where it
> is at a given point by observing Lara's position in the transparent
> blackness and see whether she is walking up or down a slope, also gauge her
> depth from how far away she looks: it seems to be several blocks deep for
> the most part.)
>
I drowned many times probing the depth of the swamp.
But now my reason for posting since you've come to the end of the
level. I don't have TR III installed at the moment so going just
from memory here, but if i remember correctly you can make your
way back to the bottom of the long slope near the beginning from
when you get back to the swamp near the end of the level using
the treetops. From before you go down to cross the swamp where
there is a tiger, turn left toward the beginning and doing a bent
trick-jump turning left in midair around something i think. But
from the treetops the jump down to the base of the long slope is
much to high to be able to do the route in reverse.
> Oh well, only another 19 levels to go!
Bon voyage.
--
Nah-ah. I'm staying out of this. ... Now, here's my opinion.
Please followup in the newsgroup.
E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
Cleve
"McG." <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a26c172$0$22959$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
> on the roof in any of the first 3 games Mansion? Do you even know how to
> get up there?
Ah! -- the good ol' days of the Corner Jump "bug" (which they kindly left in
for at least the first 3 games).
THAT'S Raiding.
In my favorite level of all time, Home Sweet Home -- one of the many fun
ways to play with that level was to get Lara on the roof and shoot at guys
from up there. Another fun mini-game was to lock one of the bad guys in the
freezer, kill everybody else, then freely explore in the dark. Then, when
you get bored, kill freezer-dude (triggering the tough guy to appear
(Bartoli?)) and lead him on a chase through the maze, etc.
Good times for a crafty Croft.
--cleve
Marty Fremen
>
> I think i remember that after reading in a walkthrough that i
> tried a diagonal jump over water for a big shortcut, but i was
> never even close so i gave up quite fast with trying that.
I think I've just found another shortcut which I think may be what you are
referring to, I wasn't sure at first whether it was possible but your
mention of trick jumps makes me think it is probably possible.
At the first aerial runway across the fast-flowing river you reach a stump.
From the doorway ahead it is possible to turn to your left and jump and
grab the greenery above. You can then jump and walk along the greenery if
you keep to the wall. Ahead at the corner is a big branch stretching out
across the river (which you can only see from below, from above it looks
the same as the greenery). If you take a running jump you can grab the
invisible edge of the branch and pull up. There is now only a single block
of tree trunk separating you from the ledge where the second aerial runway
starts, (the one leading to the pillars bit you flood (reminiscent of
Cistern in the original game).
I've not managed to do the final jump round the trunk, it means taking a
running jump outwards and then and turning in midair like you described,
but so far I've not managed to turn enough to land on the ledge behind the
trunk and always end up in the river.
> if i remember correctly you can make your
> way back to the bottom of the long slope near the beginning from
> when you get back to the swamp near the end of the level using
> the treetops. From before you go down to cross the swamp where
> there is a tiger, turn left toward the beginning and doing a bent
> trick-jump turning left in midair around something i think.
I had a go at that but couldn't manage it. It's exactly the same as the
jump I am trying above, so I will have to keep practicing the move since it
seems to come in useful a lot.
> But
> from the treetops the jump down to the base of the long slope is
> much to high to be able to do the route in reverse.
It would be possible if you could grab a diagonal edge but you can't.
Diagonlly split blocks seem to be new to TR3, I've not seen them before,
but it seems to be impossible to grab or hang from the diagonal line on the
few blocks which are half solid and half air or greenery. At the bottom of
the long slope on the left, there is just one section of the treetop area
ahead which is reachable from the ground, but because it has a diagonal
edge I've been unable to grab it.
Etal
> Etal <lo...@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I think i remember that after reading in a walkthrough that i
>> tried a diagonal jump over water for a big shortcut, but i was
>> never even close so i gave up quite fast with trying that.
>
Maybe i misunderstood what i think i read somewhere, or
misremember, but i think it was from the ledge just at the first
switch where the monkey carries the Medi Pack ... but where you
are suppose to jump is sloping so that i always just glide back
into the water. I really don't see how it can be done.
> I think I've just found another shortcut which I think may be what you are
> referring to, I wasn't sure at first whether it was possible but your
> mention of trick jumps makes me think it is probably possible.
>
> At the first aerial runway across the fast-flowing river you reach a stump.
> From the doorway ahead it is possible to turn to your left and jump and
> grab the greenery above. You can then jump and walk along the greenery if
> you keep to the wall. Ahead at the corner is a big branch stretching out
> across the river (which you can only see from below, from above it looks
> the same as the greenery). If you take a running jump you can grab the
> invisible edge of the branch and pull up. There is now only a single block
> of tree trunk separating you from the ledge where the second aerial runway
> starts, (the one leading to the pillars bit you flood (reminiscent of
> Cistern in the original game).
>
> I've not managed to do the final jump round the trunk, it means taking a
> running jump outwards and then and turning in midair like you described,
> but so far I've not managed to turn enough to land on the ledge behind the
> trunk and always end up in the river.
>
I don't remember trying that route before, but i just reinstalled
TRIII and tried it. It is possible to jump around the tree trunk
toward the zip-line! It took me about 15-20 tries before i
managed the jump, but then i did it again directly on next try
knowing better how to position myself.
This trick-jump is a little more difficult then the one at the
end because the trunk you have to jump around bends a little
toward you so it is easy to hit your head in it when jumping.
>> if i remember correctly you can make your
>> way back to the bottom of the long slope near the beginning from
>> when you get back to the swamp near the end of the level using
>> the treetops. From before you go down to cross the swamp where
>> there is a tiger, turn left toward the beginning and doing a bent
>> trick-jump turning left in midair around something i think.
>
> I had a go at that but couldn't manage it. It's exactly the same as the
> jump I am trying above, so I will have to keep practicing the move since it
> seems to come in useful a lot.
>
I tried it again today and managed it on the second try. I did
this before i tried the one you describe above. I think this is
an easier jump so i suggest you practice this one first. Even if
you can jump longer (with lower arc) if you hold down Action
(Ctrl), you can't turn in midair if you do that.
>
>> But
>> from the treetops the jump down to the base of the long slope is
>> much to high to be able to do the route in reverse.
>
> It would be possible if you could grab a diagonal edge but you can't.
> Diagonlly split blocks seem to be new to TR3, I've not seen them before,
> but it seems to be impossible to grab or hang from the diagonal line on the
> few blocks which are half solid and half air or greenery. At the bottom of
> the long slope on the left, there is just one section of the treetop area
> ahead which is reachable from the ground, but because it has a diagonal
> edge I've been unable to grab it.
You are correct. you can reach the diagonal edges here, but can't
seem to grab hold. Argh. Also, the foliage that makes up the rest
of the square for one of the diagonals look filled in and
different from the other foliage there .. like one was supposed
to grab hold there but i can't. I also fall through on that
foliage, coming from above. Also notice that there is a ledge
hidden in the foliage directly opposite the diagonal going
tree-branches, but it's only a half-square so i couldn't get to
do a running jump from it.
Cleve
"Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:%hTVl.4019$GD4...@newsfe15.iad...
>
> In my favorite level of all time, Home Sweet Home -- one of the many fun
> ways to play with that level was to get Lara on the roof and shoot at guys
Thus inspired, I fired up TR2 yesterday, and loaded Home Sweet Home.
(Laundry Day. I play stuff while I mind the washer.)
You guys would have died laughing.
The Bad Guys are coming up the stairs to get her, of course -- and I'm madly
thumbing the PS3 joysticks, going, "Oh my God, it doesn't work any more!
She isn't moving! I can't even swing the camera!" The Bad Guys come. They
kick her helpless ass. Dead.
It slowly occurs to my aging brain that, hey, you know -- I don't think we
PS guys USED joysticks for the first few TRs. It was the damned directional
buttons. (I had a hell of a time learning how to run her about smoothly
without stopping to change direction.)
Loaded the level again. Lived a little longer. Died while trying to find
and pick up the shotgun in the closet.
I had to load another level -- where she wasn't getting pounded on from the
beginning -- just to learn the controls again.
An hour later....
She's ALMOST got her act together -- except when someone surprises her, and
I panic and instinctively start trying to use Grand Theft Auto controls on
her.
I haven't kept her alive long enough to see the Final Bad Guy in that level
yet. Haven't deserved to.
But damn. Still fun!
Next Laundry Day, she'll be kicking ass again. Oh yeah.
--cleve
Etal
> Marty Fremen wrote:
>
>> Etal <lo...@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> But
>>> from the treetops the jump down to the base of the long slope is
>>> much to high to be able to do the route in reverse.
>> It would be possible if you could grab a diagonal edge but you can't.
>> Diagonlly split blocks seem to be new to TR3, I've not seen them before,
>> but it seems to be impossible to grab or hang from the diagonal line on the
>> few blocks which are half solid and half air or greenery. At the bottom of
>> the long slope on the left, there is just one section of the treetop area
>> ahead which is reachable from the ground, but because it has a diagonal
>> edge I've been unable to grab it.
>
Oops. I think the last thing you describe is the same thing i
mention here below. It didn't register at first. Sorry.
> Also notice that there is a ledge
> hidden in the foliage directly opposite the diagonal going
> tree-branches, but it's only a half-square so i couldn't get to
> do a running jump from it.
>
Anyway, in other posts you write:
>> Looking at an online walkthrough I see you're
>> supposed to be able to jump over a bit of greenery up in the trees and make
>> your way along the treetops,
and
>> Similarly the greenery shortcut to the exit of the jungle at the start of
>> TR3 (which I FINALLY managed to achieve today! In the last few days I must
>> have tried the jump over the big green bit dozens of times in vain but
>> today I managed it on the second attempt, I was so pleased!) Anyway I'm
>> sure the fact that you can cross the treetops from there to the exit is not
>> accidental.
Since i installed the game again, i want to try that as well.
Approximately where is this big green bit you jumped over? And
did it lead you anywhere as the walktrough said?
jeffareid
> for at least the first 3 games).
Corner bug is in TR1 through TR5 (Chronicles).
The other bug moves:
Side step on to collapsing tile transports lower to floor below no damage.
Hop back with action then release action causes Lara to move forwards while
dropping, allowing her to drop from ledge to ledge.
Run forwards and drop into a hole while pressing action, and Lara will end
up landing beyond the perimeter of the hole. A coupe of spots in the TR1
add-ons where this was useful.
Fence seam/corner bug - Lara can jump through some fence seams.
Crawl bug - similar to jump bug.
Example of tile and drop bugs:
http://jeffareid.net/tr/trbug1.wmv
http://jeffareid.net/tr/trbug2.wmv
> Another fun mini-game was to lock one of the bad guys in the freezer
You're supposed to lock Bartoli in the freezer.
Cleve
--cleve
"jeffareid" <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:V5pWl.17470$VL5....@newsfe22.iad...
Cleve
>
> -- and I'm madly
Make that "PS2".
No, Cleve has not yet caved in and purchased the STILL-over-priced PS3.
--cleve
McG.
"Marty Fremen" <Ma...@fremen.invalid> wrote in message
> "McG." <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>> Have you been up ON the Mansion yet?
>
> roof
> level from inside the doorway to the front door in a single jump instead
> of
> the two jumps that the guide I was reading described. Jumping down again
> is
> a bit trickier, I found I took a lot less damage if I simply ran off the
> edge onto something below (such as the hedge) rather than jumping, which
> seems to cause a lot more damage. I also found it possible to jump down
> onto the top of some of the assault course bits.
>
>> Have you played the expansion levels for
>> Tombraider?
>
> buying this pack of games. I played the original game maybe ten years ago,
> but I used to find it required a boot to DOS in order to work, and I had
> to
> load up the game CDROM every time, so I eventually got tired of the hassle
> and stopped playing it. However I'm hoping that the patching program I've
> been using for TR2 and TR3 which installs the CD-ROM files onto the HD and
> give improved graphics will give it a new lease of life.
>
> As for TR2 extras, I've played the Gold levels which I thought were as
> good
> as the main game, all the rivers of molten gold etc. I wrote here a while
> back about some of the things I was trying in that. I've come to the
> conclusion that most of the sneaky things you can do in these games are
> not
> accidental, they've been designed in as "easter eggs" for people who look
> beyond the beaten path of the walkthroughs (unlike Quake & Halflife, where
> the shortcuts etc probably are due to sloppy design). The first one I
> discovered was at the start of the Great Wall where you can get onto the
> top of the towers and dive into the pool. ISTM that the little square
> inlet
> in the pool is there precisely to make the dive possible. If they hadn't
> intended people to be able to climb onto the tops of the towers they
> wouldn't have rendered them.
>
> Similarly the greenery shortcut to the exit of the jungle at the start of
> TR3 (which I FINALLY managed to achieve today! In the last few days I must
> have tried the jump over the big green bit dozens of times in vain but
> today I managed it on the second attempt, I was so pleased!) Anyway I'm
> sure the fact that you can cross the treetops from there to the exit is
> not
> accidental.
Hm. I never knew of or did the treetops in the India level. I may try that
in Win 7 if I can get the installers to run under virtual xp x32!
The Quakes and the Half-Lifes all have their easter eggs too. John Carmack
has a well developed sense of humor. Otherwise, we'd never have the
"Dopefish" in Quakes 1, 2 and 3. :D
I'm trying to understand why you cannot install the original Tombraider to
your hard disk?
McG.
Etal
> Etal <lo...@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Marty Fremen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Similarly the greenery shortcut to the exit of the jungle at the
>>>> start of TR3 (which I FINALLY managed to achieve today! In the last
>>>> few days I must have tried the jump over the big green bit dozens of
>>>> times in vain but today I managed it on the second attempt, I was so
>>>> pleased!) Anyway I'm sure the fact that you can cross the treetops
>>>> from there to the exit is not accidental.
>>
>> Since i installed the game again, i want to try that as well.
>> Approximately where is this big green bit you jumped over? And
>> did it lead you anywhere as the walktrough said?
>>
>
> Entering the swamp section from the big slope, get onto the stone wall
> on the left and go to the far end, then turn right onto the solid
> greenery. You'll see a big hump in front of you. If you can jump over it
> you'll find you can easily cross the rest of foliage (which is almost
> all solid though it doesn't look it) and drop down by the exit door.
>
> Using this shortcut bypasses the whole level, you simply have to run up
> the steps for the key and come down again.
>
Thanks. Got it and ... jump (fail), jump (fail), jump (fail), GOT IT!