Eidos using player metrics to build a better Tomb Raider
stellalune
This isn't exactly news, but I just heard about it and thought where
can I find a bunch of smart people to tell me more? So here I am.
Apparently Eidos has been collecting data about players' gaming styles
in order to improve future games. My latest blog post has more details
and a link to an academic paper explaining how some researchers used
Tomb Raider: Underworld data collected through Xbox Live to formulate
a set of typical player types, which they called "Veterans",
"Solvers", "Pacifists" and "Runers".
See "Beyond Player Tailoring: A Tomb Raider as Unique as You Are" :
http://stellalune.blogspot.com/2009/08/beyond-player-tailoring-tomb-raider-as.html
The authors of this particular paper envision games that adapt to your
gaming style as you play, adding or removing challenges, offering
hints, etc., which could be pretty cool if done effectively and pretty
terrible otherwise.
This also brings up some interesting privacy issues. The paper wasn't
clear on this point, but I assume none of the data collected is
personally identifiable. I'm also assuming other developers are doing
this too. Yet, there doesn't seem to be any kind of notification or
waiver, unless it's deep in the fine print somewhere. It's not as
though when you sign onto Xbox Live you hear a message saying, "This
session may be monitored to improve your future gaming experience."
I'd be interested to know what you all think about this—the
ramifications for game development as well as the "Big Brother"
aspects.
Regards, Stella
Stella's Tomb Raider Site
The definitive, highly detailed & fully dressed TR walkthroughs!
http://tombraiders.net & http://stellalune.blogspot.com
McG.
"stellalune" <stell...@tombraiders.net> wrote in message
news:498d103d-92bb-4d00...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Regards, Stella
You HAVE heard of Valves "Steam", right? I'm sure if the data collections
agencies wanted to, they could instantly provide personally identifiable
data on any unit from their statistics. If any of these companies say they
do not collect personal identity data, they are lying. Just like M$ does
and always has.
They're not going to let you/us know they are doing it because, quite
frankly, they already know we are in majority opposition to the whole thing
of continuous data collection of individual system statistics. So they
simply do it, and damn us for interfering with their game plan if we catch
them at it. And it's illegal only if they are caught.
Sort of like Maxx Headroom, but worse. 'Big Brother', indeed. :)
McG.
McG.
"stellalune"
some researchers used Tomb Raider: Underworld data collected through Xbox
Live to formulate a set of typical player types, which they called
"Veterans",
"Solvers", "Pacifists" and "Runers".
Regards, Stella
I see one glaring flaw to their study. It comes to the issue of console vs
PC gamer. The PC gamer is, I believe, a much different critter than the
typical consoler. They've left out the entire world of PC gamer, so I guess
we'll never know what the "real statistical" differences are between the
two. Though, EIDOS could easily add the Steam stats for their games to the
mix.
I bought and play Anniversary and Underworld on Steam. It was cheaper and,
for me, much more convenient. I own and play most of the whole list of
Valve games on Steam. So I decided to try these two TR games on Steam.
Works great for me. And yes, I can set them up for offline play too.
Too bad the legacy TR games aren't set up on Steam, I'd still be able to
play them even under XP 64 bits on this render rig I built! :-)
Good to see ya again Stella! And hey, how were we to know you'd be so cute
IRL? :)
McG.
John Whitworth
"McG." <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a846df6$0$29298$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
> Too bad the legacy TR games aren't set up on Steam, I'd still be able to
> play them even under XP 64 bits on this render rig I built! :-)
Will none of TR1-5 run on XP x64 McG? I loaded Windows 7 x64 at the weekend,
and seeing your post prompted me to try TR2. Apart from some slightly slow
loading times, it runs perfectly. Haven't tried TR1 yet, though it looks
like DOSbox will support it, though Paul Gardiner says (on Vogons) that he
is working on a 64-bit version of Glidos.
Actually, I'm going to try the others now quickly too...
JW
John Whitworth
"John Whitworth" <sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
news:4a8496b2$0$2537$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Ah well - it was nice while it lasted. TR2 and TR3 seem to work OK. But TR4
and TR5 fail when trying to set up the video options. TR1 was a complete
non-starter - even in 'XP Mode'.
JW
McG.
"John Whitworth" <sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
news:4a8496b2$0$2537$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>
I think they all have 16 bit installers, and nothing 16 bit runs in XP x64.
Time to dredge up the old disks and see what they do on this newer machine.
McG.
McG.
"John Whitworth" <sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
I think a dinky little 32 bit XP box would run all of them. I THINK. Might
try that.
McG.
John Whitworth
"McG." <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a84c705$0$28030$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Oh, it would, without a doubt. My Vista 32-bit did so as well. I'm going to
have to dual boot this box to 32-bit now though, as I've discovered that
Visual Studio and 64 bits is a complete pain. I thought you could quite
simply code for 32-bit software on a 64-bit box. Doesn't seem that way! :-(
stellalune
wrote:
> "McG." <McGrandpa...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4a84c705$0$28030$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
>
> > "John Whitworth" <sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
> >news:4a849a21$0$2536$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> >> "John Whitworth" <sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:4a8496b2$0$2537$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> >>>news:4a846df6$0$29298$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
> >>>> Too bad the legacy TR games aren't set up on Steam, I'd still be able
> >>>> to play them even under XP 64 bits on this render rig I built! :-)
>
> >>> Will none of TR1-5 run on XP x64 McG? I loaded Windows 7 x64 at the
> >>> weekend, and seeing your post prompted me to try TR2. Apart from some
> >>> slightly slow loading times, it runs perfectly. Haven't tried TR1 yet,
> >>> though it looks like DOSbox will support it, though Paul Gardiner says
> >>> (on Vogons) that he is working on a 64-bit version of Glidos.
>
> >>> Actually, I'm going to try the others now quickly too...
>
> >> Ah well - it was nice while it lasted. TR2 and TR3 seem to work OK. But
> >> TR4 and TR5 fail when trying to set up the video options. TR1 was a
> >> complete non-starter - even in 'XP Mode'.
>
> >> JW
>
> > I think a dinky little 32 bit XP box would run all of them. I THINK.
> > Might try that.
> > McG.
>
> Oh, it would, without a doubt. My Vista 32-bit did so as well. I'm going to
> have to dual boot this box to 32-bit now though, as I've discovered that
> Visual Studio and 64 bits is a complete pain. I thought you could quite
> simply code for 32-bit software on a 64-bit box. Doesn't seem that way! :-(
Hey guys, thanks for totally highjacking my post. ;) Nah, it's OK. I
forgive you. It's a useful discussion anyway, and McG did say I was
cute. :D
McG.
TOTALLY cute! :-D Who'd have guessed?! And downright smart too! :-)
Back on topic, did you note where I'd said that those stastics are
essentially useless where it concerns PC only players? They haven't a
clue what we're about. And I really don't think they're even
interested. Seems the powers that be in the developing realm WANT
everybody to move over to consoles. Me now, I'm not doing that.
McG.
Bob Wiley
--
Bob Wiley
Jimboomba Qld.
(07) 55478641.
"McG." <McGran...@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a9174fa$0$32191$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>I agree. Here in Australia it is getting harder and harder to get "good" PC
>games
everything is aimed at consol gaming,which I won't have a bar of.
Bob
stellalune
>
> news:4a9174fa$0$32191$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
>
>
> > "stellalune" <stellal...@tombraiders.net> wrote in message
Wow! Now I'm going to get all conceited. Remind me to hang out here
more instead of on the message boards with the teenagers. ;)
> > Back on topic, did you note where I'd said that those stastics are
> > essentially useless where it concerns PC only players? They haven't a
> > clue what we're about. And I really don't think they're even interested.
> > Seems the powers that be in the developing realm WANT everybody to move
> > over to consoles. Me now, I'm not doing that.
> > McG.
> >I agree. Here in Australia it is getting harder and harder to get "good" PC
> >games
>
> everything is aimed at consol gaming,which I won't have a bar of.
> Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I hear that. I play on both the PC and Xbox 360, but my gaming habits
are very different on the two systems. If Eidos tracked me on the PC,
they'd see a much slower, more thorough player, since that's where I
do all my playtesting, walkthrough writing and screen capturing. Once
I finally make it over to the Xbox, it's only to replay. By then I
pretty much know where everything is and I'm just whizzing through to
see if there's anything different in that version.
I wonder if they're also tracking PC players through Steam or if they
have any plans to do that.
J.H.
-(
>
> Hey guys, thanks for totally highjacking my post. ;) Nah, it's OK. I
> forgive you. It's a useful discussion anyway, and McG did say I was
> cute. :D
>
>
> TOTALLY cute! :-D Who'd have guessed?! And downright smart too! :-)
>
> Back on topic, did you note where I'd said that those stastics are
> essentially useless where it concerns PC only players? They haven't a
> clue what we're about. And I really don't think they're even
> interested. Seems the powers that be in the developing realm WANT
> everybody to move over to consoles. Me now, I'm not doing that.
> McG.
>
>
i've been building and repairing computers for many many years now and
personally, i'm sick to death of it! the constant upgrades and hardware
hassles and driver issues......ugh.....
after getting married, having twins and 'growing up' the last thing i
want, or have time for, is dickin' around with my computer. i just want
it to work!!!!!!! console time has come, for me. i don't appreciate
it, and it's beyond limiting! but i get to play the games without
having to spend an hour wondering why something ain't working. not to
mention my kids' (they're 5 now) games. even having to tweak graphics
settings on the laptop so my son can play a racing game is
like....AAAARGH!!!!!!!
and i hate that. i blame consoles for the pc gaming problems there are
these days. the stupid thing is, hardware for gaming consoles falls way
behind my lowest video card and processor and yet i have to go spend a
couple hundred to make a new game play on the pc. i don't get it.
actually the computer industry is a joke entirely these days. upgrades
for upgrades sake. no reason for it, but we can do it, so lets!
ugh......i'm ready to retire from this crap at the ripe old age of 36.
ok i have no idea what that was all about. lol
in summation, consoles bad, pc's good. but consoles just work.
McG.
news:xrNkm.40592$Db2.38641@edtnps83...
Uh huh. And when the newest TR comes out and it only works on the
newest just out console and you got a five year old console. And there
is no backward compatibility. guess what? UPgrade! :D
McG.
McG.
Uh huh. And when the newest TR comes out and it only works on the
J.H.
yeah but by the time you have to buy a new console you'll forget what it
cost you to begin with, unlike a pc video card that's outdated before
you leave the store.
Thunderchief
Hang on...how come I've not seen a picture of our lovely friend
Stellalune?!?!?
Her website has been a great help over the years!!! And what a great
website! :-)
TC
(41 on Sunday!)
stellalune
> Hang on...how come I've not seen a picture of our lovely friend
> Stellalune?!?!?
>
> Her website has been a great help over the years!!! And what a great
> website! :-)
>
> TC
>
> (41 on Sunday!)
Happy birthday, Thunderchief. :D
The pic is on my blog, along with one of me and my cute-and-also-old
husband. ;) http://stellalune.blogspot.com.
Talk about off topic.... ;)
John Whitworth
"stellalune" <stell...@tombraiders.net> wrote in message
news:62713e85-e693-4d52...@k19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> Hey guys, thanks for totally highjacking my post. ;) Nah, it's OK. I
> forgive you. It's a useful discussion anyway, and McG did say I was
> cute. :D
Oops - sorry - got carried away! :)
McG.
Could be, yes. I waited a long time before buying an 8800GTX. I waited
until it was discontinued by nVidia and even NewEgg was closing them out. I
got one of the very last new ones around. Price, tax, title and shipping
were just at $300 totaled. This particular BFG card was almost $800 when it
was first released. I'm into 3D CG, modeling, scene building and rendering
now. Not so much into the games. Though I still do enjoy the occasional
romp in Anniversary and Underworld. And I set up and render landscapes for
backgrounds using CRYSIS Sandbox2 editor. :-)
As it has been all these years for me, it still is. Console is useless. I
stick with PC. :)
McG.
Erik Steffl
... snipped consoole versus PC upgrades and backward compatibility...
> yeah but by the time you have to buy a new console you'll forget what it
> cost you to begin with, unlike a pc video card that's outdated before
> you leave the store.
PCs are defintely more on the edge (that's where you see progress as
it happens) but it's not that bad anymore - I play all the games on my
few years old PC (2 years old, see below, intel Q6600 2.4GHz, 2GB RAM,
nvidia 8800GTX)
examples of games: TRU, Burnout paradise, Prototype, all in 1920x1080
(on a big TV, would probably play fine in greater resolution too, at
least 1920x1200)
last time I had to update PC to be able to play newer games was when
Dirt came out (Jun 19, 2007 per
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/driving/cmr07/index.html)
also - the PC you call outdated is much better than consoles
currently available, just not as good as best PCs... your statement is a
bit misleading...
erik
John Whitworth
"J.H." <justaguy...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xrNkm.40592$Db2.38641@edtnps83...
> actually the computer industry is a joke entirely these days. upgrades
> for upgrades sake. no reason for it, but we can do it, so lets!
> ugh......i'm ready to retire from this crap at the ripe old age of 36.
But that's your fault, surely, if you upgrade for upgrade's sake? I last
changed my gfx card (to 8800GTX) about 18 months ago. And it still does
everything I need it to. And I last upgraded CPU about 16 months ago to C2Q
Q9450. With overclock to 3.2GHz, there is absolutely no point in upgrading,
as this machine still seems blisteringly fast - especially with Windows 7
x64 edition running. Yeah - ok - that's an upgrade of sorts - but it wasn't
forced upon me.
That said, the so called "pick up and play" of consoles doesn't seem that
true any more. On another forum, there is an ongoing moan about the length
of time the latest PS3 upgrade takes. I don't have a PS3, but from the
comments, it seems like everyone is *having* to perform the update before
being able to play anything again (unless you disconnect from web I guess).
But if that's not thwarting the "pick up and play" aspect, I don't know what
is.
Updates used to annoy the hell out of me with the excellent LoTRO. I don't
play any more, but what used to happen was that you'd find a spare half an
hour to go and do some troll-bashing, but an update would have to be
installed, and it would take an hour or more to do it - we were often
talking multi-GB downloads, plus the install time.
So to my mind, the optional hardware updates are not the problem - it's the
forced software updates that are the pain in the bum!
JW
Rapierman
> On Aug 28, 9:31�pm, "Thunderchief" <thunderchi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hang on...how come I've not seen a picture of our lovely friend
> > Stellalune?!?!?
>
> > Her website has been a great help over the years!!! �And what a great
> > website! :-)
>
> > TC
>
> > (41 on Sunday!)
>
> Happy birthday, Thunderchief. :D
>
> The pic is on my blog, along with one of me and my cute-and-also-old
>
> Talk about off topic.... ;)
I am SO bookmarking that blog. ;-)
stellalune
>
> - Show quoted text -
;P
Thunderchief
Yep! Its a good 'un! Lots of fun stuff! :-)
TC