Clock tower 100%
Terry Pratchett
Got the lot on the second go, which was kind of disappointing. There's
a lot of nooks and crannies and hard places to get to, where a T2 FM
writer would have lodged a few pence or a ring just to drive us mad.
But all the stuff was easy enough to get with a bit of thought and
patience. It could have been...more intricate, given the wonderful
complexity of the tower.
And on Expert Level I'm rich. I only pick pockets if they're on my way
home. Remember the good ol' days of T2 when a gas arrow cost real bucks?
Now you can pick up three or four a day, for free. And while it's fun
to make enemies slip down the stairs, mostly I'm taffing around with the
old water and moss arrows. Wonderful though it is, the game is too
generous. with the cash and goodies.
--
Terry Pratchett
Mika Latokartano
"Terry Pratchett" <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> kirjoitti viestissä
news:ZUbp46CTTF$AF...@unseen.demon.co.uk...
> Wonderful though it is, the game is too
> generous. with the cash and goodies.
I'd have to agree. Towards the very end of the game, checking the stats of
my last save point, my loot total shows 27775, and I'm pretty muched maxed
up on all weapons and other items. I didn't even work hard for that, and I
think I was easily above 30 000 at some point during the game. As you said
it, the game is too generous with the loot.
- Mika L
Jonathan Barton
"Mika Latokartano" <mika.lat...@REMOVETHIS.kolumbus.fi.invalid> wrote
in message news:cdrdpt$i3n$1...@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
Subsequently I only things I bought from the shops where the gloves, test
locks, and certain fake items for a mission. I ended the game with over
50,000 in loot. I guess that makes up for what Constantine owed me!
Jonathan Barton
"veni vedi aufero"
Darin Johnson
> As you said it, the game is too generous with the loot.
I've nowhere near that much money, but I don't steel from the
city maps very much. I'll steal from people that appear corrupt
but otherwise I leave them alone. For instance, I didn't want
to take the landlord's money; though eventually I did just to
see if the note in the objectives screen would go away.
I notice that much of the loot in the city maps reappear the next
day. So you could get lots of money just by stealing the same stuff
each day.
I also realized that there were low limits to the numbers of
some equipment, like only 5 gas arrows. I had collected lots
more than that before I noticed that I was wasting my time.
So then I started using my equipment on missions instead of
saving them up. Previously there had been no need to buy
equipment since I used so few of them and there were lots to
grab around in the city. Though the arrival of the enforcers
and a trip through the catacombs depleted my supplies, so I
actually needed to buy equipment to restock.
It would be nice to be able to buy maps and tips from the
thief stores, or maybe even bribe some town guards. Oh well.
--
Darin Johnson
"You used to be big."
"I am big. It's the pictures that got small."
Terry Pratchett
<mika.lat...@REMOVETHIS.kolumbus.fi.invalid> writes
I tend to go 'shopping' every day -- that is, swing by all the known
'arrow growing sites', money farms and so on. Once the map has opened
up a little the only real expense is water arrows. Auldale has *two*
gas arrows real close to one another, for heaven's sake. When I were a
lad, findin' a gas arrow were a big deal and you damn well saved it
up...
--
Terry Pratchett
Greger Hoel
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I tend to go 'shopping' every day -- that is, swing by all the known
>'arrow growing sites', money farms and so on.
I stopped doing that early on, when I first realized I was packing
away a lot more money than I needed for equipment. I hardly use
equipment at all, though. I was kinda surprised that you'd come to the
same conclusion as I, as I was under the impression that you utilize a
lot of the arrow gadgets in your playing style.
>Once the map has opened
>up a little the only real expense is water arrows. Auldale has *two*
>gas arrows real close to one another, for heaven's sake. When I were a
>lad, findin' a gas arrow were a big deal and you damn well saved it
>up...
OTOH, making an arrow ain't very hard, and obtaining gas comes
naturally with a bit of garlic or cabbage in your diet.
" *sniff* *sniff* ..I think Garrett's here, stay alert!"
--
______________________________________________
What's up Chuck?
To reach me, swap spammers get bent with softhome
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darin Johnson
> I tend to go 'shopping' every day -- that is, swing by all the known
> 'arrow growing sites', money farms and so on. Once the map has opened
> up a little the only real expense is water arrows.
I never bought those. Then I don't tend to shoot out that many
torches, just some key lights here and there.
--
Darin Johnson
Caution! Under no circumstances confuse the mesh with the
interleave operator, except under confusing circumstances!
Terry Pratchett
<gre...@spammersgetbent.net> writes
> I was kinda surprised that you'd come to the
>same conclusion as I, as I was under the impression that you utilize a
>lot of the arrow gadgets in your playing style.
>
try anything to keep a rope arrow, even, and many's the time I've got
metal beasts to shoot themselves -- the doorway trick-- rather than
waste two water arrows.
Let's see... going though T3 again on Expert I'm well into the Lair and
have used four mines (electro-muppet in the morgue/ Enforcers/ statues)
no gas bombs, and three gas arrows, one of which was a waste. I'm not
even using many moss arrows, apart from keeping the Pagans sweet,
because T3 doesn't seem to be as big on noisy surfaces as T2. The oil
is fun to try once or twice, but that's it. And I'm using more water
arrows than I really need. I think that sneaking is easier in T3 than in
the earlier games.
However, I'll put my hand up to ten flash bombs in the cradle. The
muppets aren't a problem, but 'the others'...hah!
Frankly , if you used the firepower that's available in this game you'd
barely have to sneak at all
--
Terry Pratchett
Mika Latokartano
> Frankly , if you used the firepower that's available in this game you'd
> barely have to sneak at all
True. I suppose that's a design choise by which the developers wanted to
give those who choose to unleash <insert your preferred netherworld here>
the option to do so. My normal style of playing is also very minimalist
when it comes to the use of weapons and other items, but I like to
experiment; having cleared a particularily nasty spot by my normal style of
playing ("flexible" ghosting), I sometimes re-load and out of curiosity see
just what will happen if I toss five mines and five oil flasks near each
other, shoot a couple of noisemakers near them, wait for whatever is taffing
about to gather around, and once there's a satisfying gathering of
"volunteers", nonchalantly shoot a fire arrow in their midst...
- Mika L
Darin Johnson
> Me? No. I'm pretty minimalist and miserly about my stuff; in T2 I'd
> try anything to keep a rope arrow,
That was the great thing about rope arrows - you could reclaim them.
There were very few areas I remember where you needed more than one.
> I'm not even using many moss arrows, apart from keeping the
> Pagans sweet, because T3 doesn't seem to be as big on noisy surfaces
> as T2.
I noticed that also. I find myself sneaking behind someone ready to
send him to to the sandman, and I'll take my finger off the creep key
to hurry myself up. The victims almost never notice me despite the
sound of footsteps.
I've used them a couple of times to make for a quiet landing when
jumping. Such as jumping behind one of the lookouts in the tall
clock tower room.
> The oil is fun to try once or twice, but that's it.
Never used this. I can't really think why they'd be necessary, or
useful. Although maybe I should try one just to see what happens.
I don't really like alerting people in such obvious ways.
> I think that sneaking is easier in T3 than in the earlier games.
Quite possibly. I have found that hiding is a little tricker as
the lights change, and sometimes I've been seen from further away
than I expected. But walking around without being noticed is very
easy. If I am crouched I make no noise at all when moving and move at
a decent speed, whereas in T1/T2 there were lots of places where I had
to move slower than crouch speed in order to be silent.
> However, I'll put my hand up to ten flash bombs in the cradle. The
> muppets aren't a problem, but 'the others'...hah!
Hmm, I think I used nine, and one holy water, and one mine. Two flash
bombs will take out a backstabbed rag doll (once even a single flash
did it). I threw the single mine entirely by mistake, I thought I was
throwing a flash grenade; it did the trick though, at the expense of
alerting another nearby ragdoll while I was still standing in a pool
of light. I backstabbed a lot more of the shadow staff than I would
normally feel comfortable with; but they weren't "real" and Garrett's
nerves were about to snap, so I let him have some fun. I'll probably
replay that last bit. But Garrett has no regrets about taking out
unnatural abominations like the rag dolls.
I did use a LOT of gas arrows and such with the enforcers. They
turned out to be pretty wimpy after all, equivalent to archers. I
thought that with their telepathy that making one unconscious would
bring them all running... I was also getting too tired running around
all the districts to bother with sneaking patiently; besides, I HAD
to knock them out in order to save lives, and the arrows were faster
than the cosh. But will they remember to thank Garrett later?
--
Darin Johnson
"Floyd here now!"
Darin Johnson
> I sometimes re-load and out of curiosity see
> just what will happen if I toss five mines and five oil flasks near each
> other,
Yes, curiosity will likely be Garrett's undoing. Once while carrying
an unconscious Hammerite on my shoulders, I looked over the edge of
the railing and thought "I wonder if I can get this body to land on the
altar just as their prayer ends." Boy, those Hammerites sure don't
know how to take a joke.
--
Darin Johnson
"Particle Man, Particle Man, doing the things a particle can"
Mika Latokartano
"Darin Johnson" <darin_@_usa_._net> kirjoitti viestissä
news:cu1llh9...@nokia.com...
> "Mika Latokartano" <mika.lat...@REMOVETHIS.kolumbus.fi.invalid>
writes:
>
> > I sometimes re-load and out of curiosity see
> > just what will happen if I toss five mines and five oil flasks near each
> > other,
>
> Yes, curiosity will likely be Garrett's undoing. Once while carrying
> an unconscious Hammerite on my shoulders, I looked over the edge of
> the railing and thought "I wonder if I can get this body to land on the
> altar just as their prayer ends." Boy, those Hammerites sure don't
> know how to take a joke.
:D
Here's something to try -- really weird, I thought -- but read on only if
you've already finished the game. Contains SPOILERS!
SPOILERS regarding the end of the game below!
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Ever tried to kill the hag? Can't be done, right? Wrong.
I didn't come up this by myself, but came across this on the TTLG. So, when
you're trying to kill the hag, the best you can achieve is that she turns
translucent for a while, and then comes back with a vengance. No matter
what amount of firepower you throw at her, she will not die. Unless you
make the hag slip on a puddle of oil! That's right.
This works at least in the South Quarter, towards the finale of the game.
Get the hag to follow you. I lured her to follow me from the fountain near
Garrett's apartment and toward the street that ramps down, starting near the
well. Then I simply tossed an oil flask on the street, and when the hag
slipped on it, she died on the spot. I suppose any place would do, just as
long as you get the hag to slip.
I'm pretty sure it's a bug, and don't know what happens if you kill her
earlier on.
- Mika L
Terry Pratchett
<darin_@_usa_._net> writes
>
>That was the great thing about rope arrows - you could reclaim them.
>There were very few areas I remember where you needed more than one.
>
> I backstabbed a lot more of the shadow staff than I would
>normally feel comfortable with; but they weren't "real" and Garrett's
>nerves were about to snap, so I let him have some fun. I'll probably
>replay that last bit. But Garrett has no regrets about taking out
>unnatural abominations like the rag dolls.
Are they staff (ie, sadistic bastards) or lobotomized patients(ie, poor
souls)? It doesn't make a lot of difference -- 'I feel you pain,
brother' doesn't cut much ice when you're having the shit kicked out of
you.
>
>I did use a LOT of gas arrows and such with the enforcers. They
>turned out to be pretty wimpy after all, equivalent to archers.
I think they were a major disappointment. The FM 'Equilibrium' was far
more scary, and there you were just dealing with five guys who had
Garretts skill at not being seen. These just stood right out in the
street. They were a nuisance, not a problem.
--
Terry Pratchett
Darin Johnson
> The Bank was easier with three:-)
The bank required the most thief skills by far of any of the official
missions. Very loud surfaces, guards in inconvenient and well lit
places, and patrolling robot squealers. Very perfect
> Are they staff (ie, sadistic bastards) or lobotomized patients(ie,
> poor souls)?
It wasn't explained what they were. I suspect either the hag used
this as a base in the past and those were her guards, or else they
just manifested themselves from all the pain and suffering (according
to Hollywood science, this sort of thing happens all the time).
> I think they were a major disappointment. The FM 'Equilibrium' was
> far more scary, and there you were just dealing with five guys who had
> Garretts skill at not being seen. These just stood right out in the
> street. They were a nuisance, not a problem.
There was the one enforcer up on the roof. It would have ambushed me
pretty good except that I notice the silhouette of its head against
the sky at the last second.
--
Darin Johnson
Gravity is a harsh mistress -- The Tick
Terry Pratchett
<darin_@_usa_._net> writes
>
>There was the one enforcer up on the roof. It would have ambushed me
>pretty good except that I notice the silhouette of its head against
>the sky at the last second.
Sure. I was lucky there, too. But the rest of them stood in plain
sight, moved like Herr Flick of the Gestapo, and whiled away the time
getting into fights with the various other armed groups, which they
didn't always win. They weren't a real challenge.
--
Terry Pratchett
Greger Hoel
<tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>No. I'm pretty minimalist and miserly about my stuff; in T2 I'd
>try anything to keep a rope arrow, even, and many's the time I've got
>metal beasts to shoot themselves -- the doorway trick-- rather than
>waste two water arrows.
Heh - that's it really: You've always described with great enthusiasm
how well you get along with the Thief standard eqipment, and how you
like to prod the game into turning out odd effects. I guess that's
what made me think you use quite a lot of it.
>Let's see... going though T3 again on Expert I'm well into the Lair and
>have used four mines (electro-muppet in the morgue/ Enforcers/ statues)
>no gas bombs, and three gas arrows, one of which was a waste. I'm not
>even using many moss arrows, apart from keeping the Pagans sweet,
>because T3 doesn't seem to be as big on noisy surfaces as T2. The oil
>is fun to try once or twice, but that's it. And I'm using more water
>arrows than I really need. I think that sneaking is easier in T3 than in
>the earlier games.
One thing I think they've done a somewhat hack job at is the sound
*you* hear Garrett make as he walks. The AIs may hear it and react
upon it like in the previous games, yet you hear almost nothing. Your
own footsteps would often seem eardrum-shattering in T1/T2.
Another thing is the silly noise reduction you get when you crouch.
Newsflash: It's NOT easier to move quietly when you're crouching. IN
facts, it's quite a lot harder.
>However, I'll put my hand up to ten flash bombs in the cradle. The
>muppets aren't a problem, but 'the others'...hah!
I ghosted that level, by and large. Didn't dare to rouse any of those
mental zombies.
>Frankly , if you used the firepower that's available in this game you'd
>barely have to sneak at all
I haven't tried much firepower 'cept for broadheads and the occasional
fire arrow, but from where I'm standing now, I can definitely see your
point. However, for a seasoned taffer the same thing can be said about
most TG & T2 missions, so it ain't like we're not already accustomed
to not milk our battle capacity to the max.
Darin Johnson
> Another thing is the silly noise reduction you get when you crouch.
> Newsflash: It's NOT easier to move quietly when you're crouching. IN
> facts, it's quite a lot harder.
I think in the original you were quieter when crouched because you
were also slower. Slower means quieter. But in T3 you can move along
at a decent pace while crouched.
> I ghosted that level, by and large. Didn't dare to rouse any of those
> mental zombies.
I stepped on a sleeping one in the morgue. That's when my nerves
finally snapped.
--
Darin Johnson
I'm not a well adjusted person, but I play one on the net.
Terry Pratchett
<darin_@_usa_._net> writes
>
>I stepped on a sleeping one in the morgue.
Didn't we all? That's like the end of 'Carrie':-)
--
Terry Pratchett
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> One thing I think they've done a somewhat hack job at is the sound
> *you* hear Garrett make as he walks. The AIs may hear it and react
> upon it like in the previous games, yet you hear almost nothing. Your
> own footsteps would often seem eardrum-shattering in T1/T2.
I was doing one of the early levels one day, and my brother came in and
watched for a bit. One of his first remarks was "so Garrett's got rid
of the clogs then."
--
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.
NOS...@jades.org /is/ a real email address!
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> I stepped on a sleeping one in the morgue. That's when my nerves
> finally snapped.
Is that the one near the body cupboards (for want of a better name)
with the grating on the floor? When I saw it, it was standing up but
its feet were stuck in the grating.
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> There was the one enforcer up on the roof. It would have ambushed me
> pretty good except that I notice the silhouette of its head against
> the sky at the last second.
I was half expecting something up there, and was crouched and hugging
the wall. I actually walked past it before I heard it. If I wasn't
being careful, it would've easily got the drop on me.
Darin Johnson
> Is that the one near the body cupboards (for want of a better name)
> with the grating on the floor? When I saw it, it was standing up but
> its feet were stuck in the grating.
Yep. I thought I had cleared everything out, and it was just that
last room to look in to get the 100% loot. It was a bit dark, but
I don't know how I missed seeing that body there.
It wasn't as scary as the time in Thief 2 when I found a nice shadow
next to this odd looking tree and hid there.
--
Darin Johnson
Luxury! In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...
Graham Thurlwell
<snip>
> It wasn't as scary as the time in Thief 2 when I found a nice shadow
> next to this odd looking tree and hid there.
I did the same thing. :-) I got caught with a glancing blow from
something or other and then heard a nasty sound. Anyway, I took off and
legged it down the slope in a blind panic, not daring to look behind
me. I found the end of the trail pretty much by accident. The cutscene
was almost as creepy.
Darin Johnson
> > It wasn't as scary as the time in Thief 2 when I found a nice shadow
> > next to this odd looking tree and hid there.
>
> I did the same thing. :-) I got caught with a glancing blow from
> something or other and then heard a nasty sound.
I was actually staring at it for about a minute or so, thinking
"those things there sort of look like eyes, and that could be a
mouth", when it let out a roar and the branches came down at me...
The eye flowers had me pretty creeped out also.
Graham Thurlwell
> Graham Thurlwell <NOS...@jades.org> writes:
>
> > > It wasn't as scary as the time in Thief 2 when I found a nice shadow
> > > next to this odd looking tree and hid there.
> >
> > I did the same thing. :-) I got caught with a glancing blow from
> > something or other and then heard a nasty sound.
>
> I was actually staring at it for about a minute or so, thinking
> "those things there sort of look like eyes, and that could be a
> mouth", when it let out a roar and the branches came down at me...
I didn't pay them much attention, and wasn't actually looking at it
when it attacked. I'm certainly more careful now! Second-scariest
AI-Related moment I've had on Thief.
> The eye flowers had me pretty creeped out also.
Particularly when you realise the odd noise you hear when you walk past
is the sound of them turning to keep you in view!