New PC doesn't deliver on T2
GWalters
P3 733, GF2 GTS
Looking from Katabatic tower to enemy tower 38 FPS
New PC
P4 2.8 ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
Same view 54 FPS
Both OpenGL 1024x768 32bit with the same options. (D3D is worse even on
the Radeon.)
The new system benchmarks (3DMark03) as you'd expect.
But I expected many multiples of my framerate. Any ideas...?
What sort of figure should I expect to get?
--
Graeme
GWalters
says...
Oh I installed the latest drivers from ATI (from new) and I'm running XP
Pro.
--
Graeme
Mr K
> Oh I installed the latest drivers from ATI (from new) and I'm running XP
> Pro.
I think you've found the problem with ATi... their drivers.
--
"Sensors? How dare they use such useful items!"
R.L.U. #300033, running WM 0.80.1 under MDK9.
Adrian Ng
"Mr K" <duff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b71366$9tgi9$1...@ID-73175.news.dfncis.de...
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:02:39 GMT, GWalters wrote:
>
> > Oh I installed the latest drivers from ATI (from new) and I'm running XP
> > Pro.
>
> I think you've found the problem with ATi... their drivers.
>
> --
and tribes 2. (another ati problem)
LeKeiser
Wrong. I'm playing @1600x1200 without any problem with a 2400+ &
9700Pro, with almost all the games, without any problem.
Oh, you were just trolling around? :-\
Mr K
> Wrong. I'm playing @1600x1200 without any problem with a 2400+ &
> 9700Pro, with almost all the games, without any problem.
You're the original poster, are you?
> Oh, you were just trolling around? :-\
oH NO!!11 I HACE BEN CALD A TORRL AGEN!!!11
CatharticF1
PASDESPAM...@NOSPAM-lekeiser.com says...
I know someone else wit a similar problem - was it always fast for you?
Any tips?
--
CatharticF1
"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
Fri13
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:02:39 GMT, GWalters wrote:
>
>> Oh I installed the latest drivers from ATI (from new) and I'm running
>> XP Pro.
>
> I think you've found the problem with ATi... their drivers.
problem is ur P4 prosessor.
i can play T2 1024*768*32 all full with 1200 duron and TNT (not TNT2 its
just TNT :-P) and i get 27-30 fps.
when i play XP1700+ R8500LE i get 75-145 FPS 1280*1024*32 all settings
full exept terrain details (mipmap)
all what u need is good processor.
when i use P3 500 and GF3ti500 i get ~30 fps (1024*768*32 all full)
my 3 three friends and all have P4 have FPS problem even 9700pro cos they
just have P4 :-) (intel sucks :-D)
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Fri13 <Fr...@fake.welho.com> in message news:pan.2003.04.10...@fake.welho.com:
> problem is ur P4 prosessor.
Well, yeah, if you're using a "prosessor," you'll have problems. However,
a P4 processor shouldn't cause a problem.
> i can play T2 1024*768*32 all full with 1200 duron and TNT (not TNT2 its
> just TNT :-P) and i get 27-30 fps.
Well, good for you.
> when i play XP1700+ R8500LE i get 75-145 FPS 1280*1024*32 all settings
> full exept terrain details (mipmap)
How does this prove that a P4 causes problems? You can't compare two
completely different systems.
> all what u need is good processor.
> when i use P3 500 and GF3ti500 i get ~30 fps (1024*768*32 all full)
Great. I get decent frames with my P3/600. So what?
> my 3 three friends and all have P4 have FPS problem even 9700pro cos they
> just have P4 :-)
Your three friends have 9700 pros. Graeme has a 9700 pro. They all have
P4's. What makes you so sure it's the P4 and not the 9700 pro causing
the problem?
> (intel sucks :-D)
At least they don't catch fire if the heatsink falls off.
Speaking of which, check your cooling. If a P4 gets too hot, it
throttles itself to prevent damage to the CPU and/or motherboard. It's
quite possible that the 9700 pro is generating enough heat to cause the
P4 to overheat and slow down.
--
Troy
Mr K
> At least they don't catch fire if the heatsink falls off.
If a *correctly fitted*[1] heatsink falls off an AMD CPU, you've got more to
worry about than just overheating. :)
[1] Meaning, "heatsink is secured to the motherboard via the metal clip
that's attached to the CPU socket".
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Mr K <duff...@hotmail.com> in message news:b74a0b$auoqo$1...@ID-73175.news.dfncis.de:
> If a *correctly fitted*[1] heatsink falls off an AMD CPU, you've got more to
> worry about than just overheating. :)
>
> [1] Meaning, "heatsink is secured to the motherboard via the metal clip
> that's attached to the CPU socket".
True, but I was impressed by the Tom's Hardware Guid video where the P4
continued to run (or should I say "walk) even with no heatsink, while
the Athlon burst into flames.
--
Troy
CatharticF1
Hey - so *are* you gonna share how you're getting a good frame rate?
GWalters
duff...@hotmail.com says...
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:02:39 GMT, GWalters wrote:
>
> > Oh I installed the latest drivers from ATI (from new) and I'm running XP
> > Pro.
>
> I think you've found the problem with ATi... their drivers.
I've found the problem!!
Disabled 'Interior Textured Fog', and the framerate shot past 90...!
(Yes - even outdoors!)
Bizarre!?
--
Graeme
Adrian Ng
"GWalters" <g...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19013d19f43c3688989680@news-server...
C.O.N.G.R.A.T.U.L.A.T.I.O.N.S!!!!
US
"GWalters" <g...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18fe98adf9a7b747989ad8@news-server...
GWalters
@adelphia.net says...
> my low on fps is around 132 high is like 200
>
What drivers and settings are you using?
(I'm using the latest drivers, 1024x768x32 everything maxed but have
turned off interor fog)
--
Graeme
Tony Gies
I never really liked ATI. I've built computers for several people before,
and I've been computing since I was 5. If there's one thing I've learned,
it's that ATI, despite all its wiles and guises of gooditude, really comes
short in the end. But your processor is rocking greatly.
Tony Gies
RULING. Now I'm even more sure I'm gonna keep using AMD.
Next processor I get is going to be cooled by a Peltier junction which I
plan to construct. It's a little device that gets obscenely cold on one
side and blisteringly hot on the other. However, it has an insanely high
die temp, so if I stack it on the processor and a heatsink on it, I have a
ton more cooling efficiency. Rulingnessitude.
By the way, what's an average running temp for a non-overclocked Ath with
heat sink and fan at 1.6GHz? A friend of mine is getting reasonably high
readings. I know die is 85C, but what's average?
Tony Gies
Not really. ATI is well-known for being STUPID about transparent textures.
I once sat there and watched the computer flip out and the GPU temp spike
when I built a glass room in a level editor and tested it out on my old ATI
Rage Pro Turbo II+. I called ATI and they said it's normal. And then my
card started randomly freezing. I tried everything. Then I chucked the
worthless sucker.
Tony Gies
> video
Link?
Mr K
> RULING. Now I'm even more sure I'm gonna keep using AMD.
>
> Next processor I get is going to be cooled by a Peltier junction which I
> plan to construct. It's a little device that gets obscenely cold on one
> side and blisteringly hot on the other. However, it has an insanely high
> die temp, so if I stack it on the processor and a heatsink on it, I have a
> ton more cooling efficiency. Rulingnessitude.
I was seriously impressed with the last benchmark I saw of a peltier
system. The tester(s?) had got an Intel CPU to run at double its
registered speed, yet happily maintain a temp of around 10C.
> By the way, what's an average running temp for a non-overclocked Ath with
> heat sink and fan at 1.6GHz? A friend of mine is getting reasonably high
> readings. I know die is 85C, but what's average?
+----[ Output of "sensors | grep -i temp" ]
| SYS Temp: +31.2°C (limit = +45°C, hysteresis = +40°C)
| CPU Temp: +42.1°C (limit = +60°C, hysteresis = +55°C)
+----
If I shut the CAF12 off, my temps increase by 10C. So, they're happy up to
about 55C. 60C, they get a little jumpy. 70C onwards, they kinda begin to cry.
Tony Gies
> I was seriously impressed with the last benchmark I saw of a peltier
> system. The tester(s?) had got an Intel CPU to run at double its
> registered speed, yet happily maintain a temp of around 10C.
Crap. I vainly thought this was an uncommon idea. And furthermore,
crudvapors. My friend's processor is hovering at like 71C. Time to get a
*real* HSF or something. Maybe I can put this tiny Peltier strip I have on
top of the heat sink cold side down. But wait, thermodynamics dictate
that'll do nearly squat. Nyargh. Fthh. And it's not even clocked up.
Mr K
> Crap. I vainly thought this was an uncommon idea. And furthermore,
> crudvapors. My friend's processor is hovering at like 71C. Time to get a
> *real* HSF or something. Maybe I can put this tiny Peltier strip I have on
> top of the heat sink cold side down. But wait, thermodynamics dictate
> that'll do nearly squat. Nyargh. Fthh. And it's not even clocked up.
Get any heatsink and fan on that CPU PDQ!! Also, stick some heatsink compound
on it as well.
71C?? Mmm... frying tonight! :D
Tony Gies
> Get any heatsink and fan on that CPU PDQ!!
Got the original one on there.
> heatsink compound on it as well.
I'm gonna do that, as soon as I can convince the parental units to let me
buy some. I dunno what their problem is.
> 71C?? Mmm... frying tonight! :D
Strangely, efficiency tests are saying 100.2% of rated speed or something,
so the chip can't really feel it.
Mr K
> Got the original one on there.
Manufacturer heatsinks? Ugh. Those buggers are normally clamped onto the
CPU via some plastic retainers, and are a real pain to try and remove.
Um... that goes for the old Intel slot CPU's with their cheapskate 'retail
heatsinks'.
> I'm gonna do that, as soon as I can convince the parental units to let me
> buy some. I dunno what their problem is.
Tell them that a tube of Arctic Silver 3 will last you years, and costs
about £5 (or whatever you can get that stuff for).
> Strangely, efficiency tests are saying 100.2% of rated speed or something,
> so the chip can't really feel it.
I think the CPU will be feeling that. 71C isn't a good temperature to be
running at.
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
news:Xns935C81CD...@216.168.3.44...
>
> RULING. Now I'm even more sure I'm gonna keep using AMD.
>
> Next processor I get is going to be cooled by a Peltier junction which I
> plan to construct. It's a little device that gets obscenely cold on one
> side and blisteringly hot on the other. However, it has an insanely high
> die temp, so if I stack it on the processor and a heatsink on it, I have a
> ton more cooling efficiency. Rulingnessitude.
...... ok, welcome to one of my obsessions. Welcome to my shit list for
being stupid as fuck. Congrats, you're not on fire.
I take it you've never actually seen or used a pelier in real life have you?
Hmmm? Well, congrats, you just fried your pelt, frying your CPU. Way ta
kill 200$.
You realize that an athlon CPU spits out roughly 60-70 watts of heat, when
running normally under load. Meaning you need a pelt of roughly 50% higher
wattage to work well (meaning 100+ Watts). So you've got a 60W CPU + a 100W
Pelt, meaning you have to dissipate well over 200 watts of heat off the top
of the pelt. That heat sink of yours will dissipate around 90 if its a
REALLY high end cooler. Maybe 100 if its a fucking beast. LEaving you with
over 100W of unsissipated heat, where's that go? The peltier. After a bit
you FRY the pelt. Leaving you with a ceramic block between your CPU and
Heat sink. If you know your physics (Or electronics) Ceramics are GREAT
when used as insulators. 5 seconds later your CPU is fucking toast.
bravo.
--
Mike ''Thrasher'' Kitchenman
Don't ask, you probably don't want to know.
(And if you figure it out, hell I'd be interested in hearing.)
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
uh, good god you're a dumbass.
DeBig3, why aren't you in on this?
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
He's right, athlons can handle 70C and not mind much. (AKA he's fukin
lucky)
not saying its smart, but they can.
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
>
> I never really liked ATI. I've built computers for several people before,
> and I've been computing since I was 5. If there's one thing I've learned,
> it's that ATI, despite all its wiles and guises of gooditude, really comes
> short in the end. But your processor is rocking greatly.
Get your thumb out of your ass and try something new.
your last experience with ATI Was 5 years ago, so if you've been computing
since you were 5 that makes you what, 12?
Show some damned respect and get a life. bitch.
markandbrian.net
"[PSY-W]ThrasherK" <tki...@rochester.rr.com> enlightened us with the following gem of knowledge:
[> >
[> > I think the CPU will be feeling that. 71C isn't a good temperature to be
[> > running at.
[> >
[> > --
[> > "Sensors? How dare they use such useful items!"
[> > R.L.U. #300033, running WM 0.80.1 under MDK9.
[>
[> He's right, athlons can handle 70C and not mind much. (AKA he's fukin
[> lucky)
[>
[> not saying its smart, but they can.
Corky?
--
Bryan aka [LD]ClayPidgeon
Tribes Non-News Network Editor
http://home.ncn.com/~bmonson/tnnn/
TNNNgear at http://www.cafepress.com/TNNN
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
news:200304132227...@attbi.com...
> Corky?
>
> --
> Bryan aka [LD]ClayPidgeon
> Tribes Non-News Network Editor
> http://home.ncn.com/~bmonson/tnnn/
> TNNNgear at http://www.cafepress.com/TNNN
Remember what happened the last time we practiced?
Call me that again and I'll do it worse. Thx.
markandbrian.net
[> "markandbrian.net" <yj...@attbi.com> wrote in message
LOL....I was referring to guy with the high temp CPU. Corky likes
running his at 94C. =D
Mr K
> LOL....I was referring to guy with the high temp CPU. Corky likes
> running his at 94C. =D
Centigrade? Farenheight? Ack, what's the difference? You knew what I was
talking about anyway!
LeKeiser
> > 9700Pro, with almost all the games, without any problem.
> > Oh, you were just trolling around? :-\
> Hey - so *are* you gonna share how you're getting a good frame rate?
>--
> CatharticF1
Fresh XP install, then Catalysts 3.0 and that did it. No tweaks, just
the drivers :)
LeKeiser
> > 9700Pro, with almost all the games, without any problem.
> You're the original poster, are you?
Noppers.
> > Oh, you were just trolling around? :-\
> oH NO!!11 I HACE BEN CALD A TORRL AGEN!!!11
Ouille? ;)
ScratchMonkey
73175.news.dfncis.de:
> Centigrade? Farenheight? Ack, what's the difference? You knew what I was
> talking about anyway!
Real geeks use Kelvin. :D
n...@no.com
http://firingsquad.gamers.com/guides/power_supply/
I have a P4 2.4, GF 4 4600 1 gig DDR.
I get great FPS and everything maxed out.
Too much circulation is also a bad thing. Use only rear case fans and
don't use any front ones. People think its better to have more fans,
but it just creates a pressure in ATX cases and your components will
cook vs. cool. The key is to have a nice slow and steady moving flow
of air in one direction.
Tony Gies
I will be eagerly awaiting your concise explanation of what, exactly, makes
me a dumbass. The suspense. The unbearable suspense.
Tony Gies
Looks like you've miscalculated and misinferred a total of 7 (maybe 6)
times here. Congratulations, dipwad. Come back when you know a little
more than squat about electronics and thermodynamics.
Tony Gies
>> I never really liked ATI. I've built computers for several people
>> before, and I've been computing since I was 5. If there's one thing
>> I've learned, it's that ATI, despite all its wiles and guises of
>> gooditude, really comes short in the end. But your processor is
>> rocking greatly.
>
> Get your thumb out of your ass and try something new.
>
> your last experience with ATI Was 5 years ago, so if you've been
> computing since you were 5 that makes you what, 12?
Uh, read again, moron. I didn't say my last experience with ATI was 5 years
ago. My last experience with ATI was sometime in the past month when I
tried to fix my friend's ATI Radeon that was not rendering transparencies
in America's Army: Ops. Turns out it was a bug in the last 4 driver
revisions. Quod erat domini.
> Show some damned respect and get a life.
Oh, the irony.
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
>
> Looks like you've miscalculated and misinferred a total of 7 (maybe 6)
> times here. Congratulations, dipwad. Come back when you know a little
> more than squat about electronics and thermodynamics.
Uhhh, right. Show me where I'm wrong and I'll admit it. until then you're
shooting blanks. Everything I said has been tested and shown as true in a
number of runs.
CatharticF1
PASDESPAM...@NOSPAM-lekeiser.com says...
OK, so are the old ones better than the new ones perhaps?
--
CatharticF1
"Memory is a stranger,
History is for fools"
>^,,^< Miracle
Maybe because he has Tony filtered like I do?
(Mystery solved- this is the Einstein who made it to
my Bozo Bin.)
--
>^,,^< Miracle
[LD] DkAngel (TOP)
[AGST] DkAngel (TOP)
>^,,^< Miracle
Not in every case. If I kept a "nice slow and steady moving flow of
air in one direction", I'd fry my video card in a short while. This monster
takes some SERIOUS cooling. (GeForce Ti 200, 128MB)
Of course, the location of my card (directly above the sound card)
leaves little space for air flow, so I have a fan pointed directly at the
space between the two cards.
I shudder to think what might go after the card...............
--
>^,,^< Miracle, a fan of fans
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Tony Gies <command...@socyl.moc> in message news:Xns935C81CD...@216.168.3.44:
> > True, but I was impressed by the Tom's Hardware Guid video where the
> > P4 continued to run (or should I say "walk) even with no heatsink,
> > while the Athlon burst into flames.
> >
>
> RULING. Now I'm even more sure I'm gonna keep using AMD.
So, because an Athlon (and possibly the motherboard) will be destroyed
due to a heatsink being removed (or possibly just the fan failing), and
the P4 will not, you'll pick an Athlon?
Makes perfect sense to me.
--
Troy
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Tony Gies <command...@socyl.moc> in message news:Xns935C8388...@216.168.3.44:
> LALALALALA Troy:
>
> > video
>
> Link?
http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20010917/index.html
--
Troy
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Tony Gies <command...@socyl.moc> in message news:Xns935DA4E0...@216.168.3.44:
> Looks like you've miscalculated and misinferred a total of 7 (maybe 6)
> times here. Congratulations, dipwad. Come back when you know a little
> more than squat about electronics and thermodynamics.
Ah, the joys of a Peltier.
http://nfs.hwextreme.com/burn.shtml
--
Troy
LeKeiser
just
> > the drivers :)
>
> OK, so are the old ones better than the new ones perhaps?
> --
> CatharticF1
Maybe, I can't tell since I haven't tried them. I'm very satisfied with
what I have, so I don't want to start messing around with a good config
:)
n...@no.com
<spook...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Of course, the location of my card (directly above the sound card)
>leaves little space for air flow, so I have a fan pointed directly at the
>space between the two cards.
Wow, that's a strange place for it. What kind of case do you have?
Mr K
> Wow, that's a strange place for it. What kind of case do you have?
/me sits back, "This should be good".
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
news:5g1p9v434dn7mf2pt...@4ax.com...
Uhhhh, AGP Video card and a PCI Sound card....
Nah, never would happen....
[PSY-W]ThrasherK
news:20030415121000...@yahoo.com...
I'd pick an athlon for price differential. Intel is fucktardedly spensive.
n...@no.com
<tki...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>Uhhhh, AGP Video card and a PCI Sound card....
>
>Nah, never would happen....
Oh yah. I was picturing one of those odd computer designs where the
part of the board is split and folded over. Nevermind .. my late night
thinking doesn't work at all. =)
Mr K
> Oh yah. I was picturing one of those odd computer designs where the
> part of the board is split and folded over. Nevermind .. my late night
> thinking doesn't work at all. =)
Keep taking the medication.
Tony Gies
It's a joke, kid, laugh.
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by [PSY-W]ThrasherK <tki...@rochester.rr.com> in message news:O15na.78490$e8.2...@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
> I'd pick an athlon for price differential. Intel is fucktardedly spensive.
True, but when you're building a server, a hundred dollars extra is well
worth it for the peace of mind of knowing that if your CPU fan totally
fails, your hard drives won't melt do to the CPU catching fire.
--
Troy
Tony Gies
The point is, if you have a SANE motherboard that supports AMD throttling,
UNLIKE the board in the test, it works fine.
Quixote
"Tony Gies" <command...@socyl.moc> wrote in message
Actually did'nt they make the statement that the diode on the AMD chip
responds too slowly to be of any effect for throttling compared to the short
amount of time needed to burn up?
Quixote
Quixote
"Quixote" <quixote@-munged-writeme.com> wrote in message
news:v9u60q2...@corp.supernews.com...
On second thought this scenario is in the event the heat sink completely
comes off as opposed to the fan stopping. It would be interesting to see
how the AMD throttling would work in this situation given the tremendous
heat they generate.
Quixote
Mr K
> On second thought this scenario is in the event the heat sink completely
> comes off as opposed to the fan stopping. It would be interesting to see
> how the AMD throttling would work in this situation given the tremendous
> heat they generate.
>
> Quixote
I'm interested as to how a PC would work, if an AMD CPU heatsink completely
fell off... as this would (if the heatsink was fitted correctly) involve the
actual CPU socket being removed from the motherboard.
Troy
words of "wisdom" penned by Tony Gies <command...@socyl.moc> in message news:Xns9360A3A2...@216.168.3.44:
> The point is, if you have a SANE motherboard that supports AMD throttling,
> UNLIKE the board in the test, it works fine.
No. If the heatsink is removed, the diode on the AMD responds too slowly.
It's a problem in the chip, not the motherboard.
I know it's not exactly a real-world situation, but it speaks volumes of
the attention to quality that Intel has.
--
Troy
Quixote
"Mr K" <duff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7n6da$2lrs7$1...@ID-73175.news.dfncis.de...
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:11:50 -0500, Quixote wrote:
>
> > On second thought this scenario is in the event the heat sink completely
> > comes off as opposed to the fan stopping. It would be interesting to
see
> > how the AMD throttling would work in this situation given the tremendous
> > heat they generate.
> >
> > Quixote
>(if the heatsink was fitted correctly)
Corky?
Quixote
Mr K
> Corky?
>
> Quixote
Given the stupidity of a certain UK-based PC "superstore", anything's
possible.
>^,,^< Miracle
Standard Compaq 5000 series, which has only about half of the
original hardware left in it. And no more Compaq partition. :D
(There is one AGP slot and three PCI slots.)
--
>^,,^< Miracle
>^,,^< Miracle
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:22:18 -0700, n...@no.com wrote:
>
>> Wow, that's a strange place for it. What kind of case do you have?
>
> /me sits back, "This should be good".
Hey, it's taken me 5 LONG years to understand the wee bit
that I do about these infernal beasts, so I fully understand the
occasional brain-dead question! LOL
I would really like to know the thinking that went into putting
the heat sink/fan on the card so that it's on the bottom when you
install it, though. Surely my board layout isn't that strange........
--
>^,,^< Miracle
>^,,^< Miracle
> <n...@no.com> wrote in message
> news:5g1p9v434dn7mf2pt...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:14:06 -0700, ">^,,^< Miracle"
>> <spook...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course, the location of my card (directly above the sound
>>> card) leaves little space for air flow, so I have a fan pointed
>>> directly at the space between the two cards.
>>
>> Wow, that's a strange place for it. What kind of case do you have?
>
> Uhhhh, AGP Video card and a PCI Sound card....
>
> Nah, never would happen....
/me giggles. :D
--
{{{{{{{HUGZ ! ! }}}}}}}
>^,,^< Miracle