What is the best Terran strategy?
Lou Cypher
Hi, I am new to this newsgroup but I have been playing starcraft since
version 1.03. I have played a lot of RTS games(AOK, Red Alert 2,
Tiberian Suns, etc.) but after playing all those different RTS games I
always end up missing starcraft more. It is still the only game with 3
completely different races and each race has a lot of completely
different strategies. I quit playing on bnet because of all the back
stabbing and cheating but now some people have set up a lan patry
place where you bring your own computer and you can play against
several people. Last week I went there for my first time and I played
for 4 hours. I haven't played stracraft for about a year because I had
lost interest on it but I was surprised to find out that I haven't
lost anything and the tactics that worked on version 1.04 of broodwars
still work today.
I was wondering is there any build order or strategy that will make
the terrans victorious about 70% of the time. When I played in Bnet I
had about a 70% victory rate with zergs and protoss but with terrans
the best I could do was win 50% of the time and that was if I had a
lucky day. Any moron can win with protoss but with terrans it is very
hard. I have tried everything but none seem to work. Rushes with
terrans against either protoss or zergs are useless because they can
develop invisible units early on and terrans have no detectors early
on. I have tried tank pushes but they usually take too long to reach
the main base and they require a lot of concentration to pull the off
which means that I have to spend a lot of time in the attack and
neglect my other things. I had some success with drops but they only
work if the opponent has no anti-air defenses at the limits of his
base. The only way terrans can deal with anti-air defenses from the
air is with battle cruisers which take a long time to make. Can some
one please help me out?
Lou Cypher
Luc The Perverse
"Lou Cypher" <l...@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pq9mctkrejcv7491e...@4ax.com...
> What is the best Terran strategy?
Doing the same thing will never work :) You have to adapt to what they are
doing
> Hi, I am new to this newsgroup but I have been playing starcraft since
> version 1.03. I have played a lot of RTS games(AOK, Red Alert 2,
> Tiberian Suns, etc.) but after playing all those different RTS games I
> always end up missing starcraft more. It is still the only game with 3
> completely different races and each race has a lot of completely
> different strategies. I quit playing on bnet because of all the back
> stabbing and cheating but now some people have set up a lan patry
> place where you bring your own computer and you can play against
> several people. Last week I went there for my first time and I played
> for 4 hours. I haven't played stracraft for about a year because I had
> lost interest on it but I was surprised to find out that I haven't
> lost anything and the tactics that worked on version 1.04 of broodwars
> still work today.
I found that very hard to believe, but congradulations I guess.
> I was wondering is there any build order or strategy that will make
> the terrans victorious about 70% of the time. When I played in Bnet I
> had about a 70% victory rate with zergs and protoss but with terrans
> the best I could do was win 50% of the time and that was if I had a
> lucky day. Any moron can win with protoss but with terrans it is very
> hard. I have tried everything but none seem to work. Rushes with
> terrans against either protoss or zergs are useless because they can
> develop invisible units early on and terrans have no detectors early
> on. I have tried tank pushes but they usually take too long to reach
> the main base and they require a lot of concentration to pull the off
> which means that I have to spend a lot of time in the attack and
> neglect my other things. I had some success with drops but they only
> work if the opponent has no anti-air defenses at the limits of his
> base. The only way terrans can deal with anti-air defenses from the
> air is with battle cruisers which take a long time to make. Can some
> one please help me out?
Don't try to tackle it with Air. It doesn't work.
Good Luck
-Luc The Perverse
"Das Leben ist wie eine Brille; man macht viel durch." Heinz Ehrhardt
MuuMiMan
<thu...@trilobyte.net> was running around screaming something about
"Re: What is the best Terran strategy?". Before the men in white coats
arrived and took him away, he managed to say the following:
[SNIP]
>Don't try to tackle it with Air. It doesn't work.
>
bollocks.
In short, use lot's of mechanized units against toss (tanks, vultures
supporting them with mines and some goliaths if he goes air. And SVs
for detection of course), while going heavy M&M against Zerg. Add the
occasional tank to keep lurkers from raping your infantry, and you
should be OK to go. This as some general guidelines, there aren't
really any specific strats that work all the time =P
--
The Melodramatic MuuMi
"What is familiar is what we are used to;
and what we are used to is most difficult
to 'know' -- that is, to see as a problem;
that is, to see as strange, as distant, as
'outside us.'"
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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Remove the nospam thingy for valid E-mail adress.
Chris Byler
ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com
(MuuMiMan) wrote:
>In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, "Luc The Perverse"
><thu...@trilobyte.net> was running around screaming something about
>"Re: What is the best Terran strategy?". Before the men in white coats
>arrived and took him away, he managed to say the following:
>[SNIP]
>>Don't try to tackle it with Air. It doesn't work.
>>
>Yup. Terran strength is their ground troops. Terran air sucks
>bollocks.
>In short, use lot's of mechanized units against toss (tanks, vultures
>supporting them with mines and some goliaths if he goes air. And SVs
>for detection of course), while going heavy M&M against Zerg. Add the
>occasional tank to keep lurkers from raping your infantry, and you
>should be OK to go. This as some general guidelines, there aren't
>really any specific strats that work all the time =P
Science vessels are your friend.
Aside from providing detection (which can save your life), they also
provide defensive matrix (especially useful on tanks), irradiate (die
zerg die), and EMP (no shields for you, toss boy!)
The main problem with Terrans is the one you pointed out: you can't
just throw a bunch of troops at something the way you can with zerg
and toss. You actually have to manage your troops if you want them to
win. Keeping up awareness of what's going on elsewhere at the same
time you do this isn't easy, but you'll get the hang of it in time.
Oh, and nukes are not only fun, they're damn effective, too.
--
Chris Byler cby...@vt.edu
"Therefore, determine the enemy's plans and you will know
which strategy will be successful and which will not."
-- Sun Tzu, _The Art of War_
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
09:53:37 -0400, when Lou Cypher <l...@hotmail.com> the high templar
said, "What is the best Terran strategy?". I got another stim pack and
said:
uhhhhhh
hellllp
you
I willlll:
"The best Terran strategy is to turtle" - That stoned guy across the
street.
ughhh, helped you have been. Now, travel you must. To a place called
hell you must go. Use less words you must also. My words please heed.
DOH!
=)
PA Offizielle Gewebe Stelle webmaster
PA Official web site webmaster
Great chese comes from happy cows (I finally quoted it right...)
Happy Cows come from California
ICQ:65589349
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
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re-vamped sig v1.1 Service Pack 2
potty mouth
need em. marines tanks and warths are all most people need to win with
terran (maybe vultures). just learn to use em properly
"!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!" <ktwils...@NOSPAM.crazyzealot-starcraft.com> wrote in
message news:3acb94e0.1445680@news...
potty mouth
go from there (or 1 rax+early scout and gas). That way zerg you can get your
infantry and toss you can get your vultures and wraths vs terran. Just keep
the scvs up and you can pretty do anything from there... not a strat as such
but the safest way to play as terran
"Lou Cypher" <l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pq9mctkrejcv7491e...@4ax.com...
Lou Cypher
newsgroup is alive with people willing to help out. My biggest problem
with terrans is that they require a lot of concentration. I always end
up making more scvs than I need because I forget where I put them to
work, hell even the invisible troops require you to keep track of the
energy the have. A guess that people that have a craig super computer
for brain can handle all this things you got to keep track as a terran
but to the rest of us mere mortals terrans are very hard to play.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a hotkey to handle idle workers and troops
just like AOK? I don't think that the balance of the races would be
affected much if the terrans invisible troops stayed invisible all the
time that way you wouldn't have to keep track of them. But never mind,
this is just me daydreaming again.
Thanks,
Lou Cypher
Luc The Perverse
"potty mouth" <clause...@wave.co.nz> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9ah0q7$urg$2...@news.wave.co.nz...
> learn NOT to turtle with terran and stay away from bcs and ghosts... u
dont
> need em. marines tanks and warths are all most people need to win with
> terran (maybe vultures). just learn to use em properly
No ghosts? Huh? What the hell is a warth?
-Luc The Perverse
"Love me love me love me a little more" - Slave to The Vibe
[t]North
news:tco6g7m...@news.supernews.com...
>
> "potty mouth" <clause...@wave.co.nz> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:9ah0q7$urg$2...@news.wave.co.nz...
> > learn NOT to turtle with terran and stay away from bcs and ghosts... u
> dont
> > need em. marines tanks and warths are all most people need to win with
> > terran (maybe vultures). just learn to use em properly
>
> No ghosts? Huh? What the hell is a warth?
What the hell is a warth?
--
_________________________________________________________________
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http://server45.hypermart.net/teamdirectional/index.swf
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Mark Landin
wrote:
>What is the best Terran strategy?
Medics and Marines w/stim and upgrades. If your opponent is toss, get
some firebats too. Use these forces to pressure and harass your
opponent until you get your seige tanks going. Tanks ultimately win
most matches for Terrans.
If your opponents go heavy air, skip battlecruisers .. go with
turrets, cloaked wraiths, valks, and Goliaths with the range upgrade.
Against Zerg, I really like to go overlord hunting if my wraiths
aren't needed elsewhere. Overlords are just too vulnerable considering
how critical they are to Zerg success.
Later in the game, ghosts with lockdown can make a big difference.
Lack of mobile detection is Terran's only real weakness. Sci Vessels
are too high up the tech tree, and once you get them they are too
danged slow. (If your opponent is toss, then you have more incentive
to build Science Vessels and you should get them as soon as you can
after you build decent defense and economy). Build a comsat on each
command center and hotkey them. Of course, a well-placed turret or two
can also be a useful detector, placed in some inconspicuous areas of
the map. Kind of like hanging a Protoss observer
MuuMiMan
Landin) was running around screaming something about "Re: What is the
best Terran strategy?". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
>wrote:
>
>>What is the best Terran strategy?
>
>Medics and Marines w/stim and upgrades. If your opponent is toss, get
>some firebats too. Use these forces to pressure and harass your
>opponent until you get your seige tanks going. Tanks ultimately win
>most matches for Terrans.
>
Well, at least if you play temple. Skip M&M completely, and go
straight for tanks(vultures with mines first if he's slow in getting a
core). All you need to have is a few marines (2-4) to "hold down the
fort", ie, behind your wallin(2 depots on "top" of the ramp, barracks
acts as gate on the side) at the choke. No zeals get through (if he
tries to mass rush, just send a few SCVs to repair the things). If he
comes with goons, don't worry, you'll have tanks coming in 10 seconds
and then your problems are gone...
>If your opponents go heavy air, skip battlecruisers .. go with
>turrets,
No.
Turrets suck against toss air. If he goes air, he goes carriers and
probably a few corsairs for web. Turrets are for detection, you want
your AA to be mobile. Invest in wraiths (don't if he's heavy on
corsairs), or rather, a ton of goliaths.
>cloaked wraiths,
> valks,
...Are useless. Well, to me anyway...
>and Goliaths with the range upgrade.
>Against Zerg, I really like to go overlord hunting if my wraiths
>aren't needed elsewhere. Overlords are just too vulnerable considering
>how critical they are to Zerg success.
Yup. As a zergie, i like to keep my OLs everywhere around the map
above ledges and on other hard-to-spot areas where they still give me
some visual view of strategical places of the map. It's amazing how
few people actually actively hunt OLs, and the majority who do,
usually leave the thing alone after killing a few OLs. You should
continually search the map for OLs, as you're not only harming his
supply, you're denying him recon of the map.
>Later in the game, ghosts with lockdown can make a big difference.
>
>Lack of mobile detection is Terran's only real weakness. Sci Vessels
>are too high up the tech tree, and once you get them they are too
>danged slow.
Slow?
Huh?
They're the fastest damn mobile detector in the game.
>(If your opponent is toss, then you have more incentive
>to build Science Vessels and you should get them as soon as you can
>after you build decent defense and economy).
I find myself to have much more SVs when i play against Zerg, mainly
because SVs is the bane of all Zerg air, and you really don't need to
invest in air units at all if you have plenty of SVs with irradiate.
> Build a comsat on each
>command center and hotkey them. Of course, a well-placed turret or two
>can also be a useful detector, placed in some inconspicuous areas of
>the map. Kind of like hanging a Protoss observer
>
I like to pop them down on empty islands in island games, especially
on those who are on the "main routes" to your base... I wouldn't
bother on land maps though, as they'll be easily destroyed by anything
that walks past them. Might as well use a cheaper SCV for that.
Luc The Perverse
"Moen" <hkm...@NObigSPAMfoot.com.INVALID> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:6gfpct0esjmf92ofd...@4ax.com...
>
That reminds me of an old joke. "There are still some people in the shower"
-Luc The Perverse
Hi
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
17:51:38 +1200, when "potty mouth" <clause...@wave.co.nz> the high
templar said, "Re: What is the best Terran strategy?". I got another
stim pack and said:
>learn NOT to turtle with terran and stay away from bcs and ghosts... u dont
>need em. marines tanks and warths are all most people need to win with
>terran (maybe vultures). just learn to use em properly
Except about that Warth thing that Luc and TNorth pointed out... and
what IS wrong with ghosts anyway?
I also tried to speak in Yodaish, successfully, if I do say so
myself...
> Ugh... too, many, wordsss..... tooo, manny lettters,,,
>>
>> uhhhhhh
>>
>> hellllp
>>
>> you
>>
>> I willlll:
>>
>> "The best Terran strategy is to turtle" - That stoned guy across the
>> street.
>>
>> ughhh, helped you have been. Now, travel you must. To a place called
>> hell you must go. Use less words you must also. My words please heed.
[t]North
LMAO... hahaha.. thats funny... ROTFLMAO... no wait... wrong thread. Should
have responded to Moen's. ;-)
BSTRhino
with Zerg.
Terrans aren't hard, you're just not used to them.
Against a Protoss, remember firebats are the best units to rush with. Firebats dominate Zealots. You'll win most of the time
using these guys.
EMP is an excellent weapon against the Protoss.
Lockdown is probably your best choice against tank pushes or any Protoss attack.
Goliaths are great for taking down scouts, since scouts don't have a weak ground attack.
Bunkers should be used when you defend your tanks. Remember they are the most poweful defense in the game. Don't forget about
stimpacks. This is your best defense against nukes.
Missile Turrets are the most powerful anti-air defense in the game (by a small amount). But they are only good against large
units.
SCVs are the most efficient at collecting vespene gas out of all races. Plus they can repair greatly.
Nukes should be used tactically. Only use them against static defenses. Nukes are a lot more effective than Yamato Cannons, and
they take less time to build than a Battlecrusier.
Defensive Matrix can be used when you want to drop units into enemy bases.
Valkyries are just as good as corsairs. But they cost more, and are a lot slower. This will be fixed in the 1.08 patch.
Use Optical flare on observers. It isn't very useful to blind overlords, since any Zerg player will have a lot of them.
Restore all parasites using Restoration.
Remember wraiths can cloak.
Comsat whenever you get the chance. At least every two minutes. I usually build 3 comsat stations. This gives the Terrans the
best map revealing option.
Irradiate is mostly useful when used in a Zerg mineral line. Don't use it when you are being attacked at your base. Use it as a
sneak attack to unsuspecting units.
--
BSTRhino
MSN Messenger: BSTR...@ihug.co.nz
"Lou Cypher" <l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:pq9mctkrejcv7491e...@4ax.com...
MuuMiMan
<BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about "My
Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
away, he managed to say the following:
>with Zerg.
Oi... Replace Terran with Protoss, Protoss with zerg and subtract 10%
of what's left and you have me as terran...
>Terrans aren't hard, you're just not used to them.
They are hard. By all means. They require the most attention when
playing. Toss and zerg don't require even close as much micro as
terrans. It can be said that "you don't know how to use them", which
would translate into "you can't micro worth a damn", but i like to say
they're hard to use effectively.
>Against a Protoss, remember firebats are the best units to rush with. Firebats dominate Zealots. You'll win most of the time
>using these guys.
Most of what i say will mainly apply to Lost temple, since that's what
most non-BGH people play... Firebats are good, but they're too
limited. If he doesn't make a ton of zeals, you've wasted your money.
Zeals on the other hand are semi-decent ground units with multiple
uses...
Most of the time when against terran i only make 1-4 zeals and go
straight for goons and higher tech. M&M are too effective against
zeals, and you need higher tech in order to beat them. Or a supporting
cannon on the ledge.
>EMP is an excellent weapon against the Protoss.
EMP is good, especially if he has corsairs (it drains their mana, and
people like to clump them all up in once place =), but i usually go
for irradiate first if he likes using lot's of templars.
>Lockdown is probably your best choice against tank pushes or any Protoss attack.
Wrongo. Lockdown is only useful when the enemy goes for a few big
expensive units(in practice, only the carrier... Well, reavers too if
he attempts a drop and you don't have tanks on standby). Locking down
a huge army of Dragoons is usually a bad idea...
>Goliaths are great for taking down scouts, since scouts don't have a weak ground attack.
Scouts are crap. No toss player in their senses build them.
However, goliaths work well against all toss air, though large carrier
swarms on ledges tend to give problems to them. In that case you'll
need ghosts for support.
>Bunkers should be used when you defend your tanks. Remember they are the most poweful defense in the game. Don't forget about
>stimpacks. This is your best defense against nukes.
>
Stimpacks? Against nukes? 'scuse me?
Bunkers are nice, but don't overdo it - With tanks, walling your base
with buildings is most of the time just as effective(or on temple more
effective), but you save the price of the bunker...
>Missile Turrets are the most powerful anti-air defense in the game (by a small amount). But they are only good against large
>units.
Yes. But the main propose why you build them is detection, not AA...
>SCVs are the most efficient at collecting vespene gas out of all races. Plus they can repair greatly.
No they are not. They're the slowest and most inefficient of all
workers. The best is the probe. SCVs do however have 20 extra HP,
which come in handy in case your enemy drops your peon line...
>Nukes should be used tactically. Only use them against static defenses.
...Which toss players really don't have, aside from a few cannons.
Nukes are only good if you can catch him off guard and kill his army
with it, which is almost never, since most people realize you'll
either targeting their troops or their workers, and move them away for
security reasons - I always move my troops when i hear a nuke
launched, even if i don't see the red dot.
>Nukes are a lot more effective than Yamato Cannons, and
>they take less time to build than a Battlecrusier.
>
Battlecruisers should not be used at all.
>Defensive Matrix can be used when you want to drop units into enemy bases.
>
Defensive matrix has many uses. For example, if your enemy shift-ques
his units to fire on one target at a time, DM that unit(and only that
unit) =)
>Valkyries are just as good as corsairs. But they cost more, and are a lot slower. This will be fixed in the 1.08 patch.
>
Uh, no. Valks are crap, corsairs are decent.
Let's see. For 150/100 i can get a cheap, very cost-efficient unit
that owns all fighter class air units in the game. That, and it can be
used to seriously screw up terran defenses. I'd say it's worth its
cost.
For 200/125 i can get a slow crappy air unit that is only efficient in
large numbers with a limited use. Corsairs are far more versatile than
Valks. The limited usability of the valkyrie (AA, and ONLY AA) and its
hight price make it one of the crappiest units in the game. If you
need to kill muties, make M&M. Much more cost-efficient, plus they can
be used to kill other things too. The only downside is mobility.
>Use Optical flare on observers. It isn't very useful to blind overlords, since any Zerg player will have a lot of them.
I usually never bother researching optic flare, i find it a highly
useless spell. If you have the chance to blind an observer, why not
just kill it? More efficient...
>Restore all parasites using Restoration.
>
Yes.
>Remember wraiths can cloak.
>
That is their only advantage, otherwise they're a horribly crappy air
unit.
>Comsat whenever you get the chance. At least every two minutes. I usually build 3 comsat stations. This gives the Terrans the
>best map revealing option.
Comsat whenever you have the chance, but before SVs it is good to have
50 emergency energy for quick cloak detection to avoid the worst
surprises.
>Irradiate is mostly useful when used in a Zerg mineral line.
Irradiate is most useful when used against swarms of zerg flyers.
>Don't use it when you are being attacked at your base. Use it as a
>sneak attack to unsuspecting units.
I use irradiate to take out Zerg flyers, and that's pretty much all i
do with it. You can get pretty damn far with only SVs and M&M, even
guardians aren't a problem with enough SVs(of course having tanks and
a few other units with you make you better prepared for other things,
like lurks...).
--
The Melodramatic MuuMi
"What is familiar is what we are used to;
and what we are used to is most difficult
to 'know' -- that is, to see as a problem;
that is, to see as strange, as distant, as
'outside us.'"
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Official supporter of Vasudan Grand Admiral Bob:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/muumi/Bob.jpg
Luc The Perverse
"MuuMiMan"
<ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adbbf38...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, "BSTRhino"
> <BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about "My
> Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
> away, he managed to say the following:
> >I'm a Terran player, and I would say that I win 70% of the time with
Terran, 50% of the time with Protoss, and 30% of the time
> >with Zerg.
>
> Oi... Replace Terran with Protoss, Protoss with zerg and subtract 10%
> of what's left and you have me as terran...
<corny japanese accent>
You lose 90% of time with Terran on island map
-Luc The Perverse
No Sig For You
BSTRhino
news:3adbbf38...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, "BSTRhino"
> <BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about "My
> Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
> away, he managed to say the following:
> >I'm a Terran player, and I would say that I win 70% of the time with Terran, 50% of the time with Protoss, and 30% of the
time
> >with Zerg.
>
> Oi... Replace Terran with Protoss, Protoss with zerg and subtract 10%
> of what's left and you have me as terran...
>
> >Terrans aren't hard, you're just not used to them.
>
> They are hard. By all means. They require the most attention when
> playing. Toss and zerg don't require even close as much micro as
> terrans. It can be said that "you don't know how to use them", which
> would translate into "you can't micro worth a damn", but i like to say
> they're hard to use effectively.
Are you saying that you don't micro with other races? I believe they require the same amount of micromanagement. People just
never even try to play Terran.
>
> >Against a Protoss, remember firebats are the best units to rush with. Firebats dominate Zealots. You'll win most of the time
> >using these guys.
>
> Most of what i say will mainly apply to Lost temple, since that's what
> most non-BGH people play... Firebats are good, but they're too
> limited. If he doesn't make a ton of zeals, you've wasted your money.
> Zeals on the other hand are semi-decent ground units with multiple
> uses...
> Most of the time when against terran i only make 1-4 zeals and go
> straight for goons and higher tech. M&M are too effective against
> zeals, and you need higher tech in order to beat them. Or a supporting
> cannon on the ledge.
Marines and Medics are too effective against Dragoons. I don't concentrate on building a lot of Medics, so my force is more
powerful. One marine does more damage to a Dragoon in the same cooldown time. That's because Dragoons have an explosive weapon.
Same story with Hydralisks.
If you can get your enemy when he still has Zealots, then you should use firebats.
>
> >EMP is an excellent weapon against the Protoss.
>
> EMP is good, especially if he has corsairs (it drains their mana, and
> people like to clump them all up in once place =), but i usually go
> for irradiate first if he likes using lot's of templars.
I don't use irradiate too much, because it is a slow attack. The templar will be able to cast 3 psionic storms before it is
dead. I use irradiate mostly on mineral lines because it is a lot more effective than trying to get a bunch of mutalisks which
can run away.
>
> >Lockdown is probably your best choice against tank pushes or any Protoss attack.
>
> Wrongo. Lockdown is only useful when the enemy goes for a few big
> expensive units(in practice, only the carrier... Well, reavers too if
> he attempts a drop and you don't have tanks on standby). Locking down
> a huge army of Dragoons is usually a bad idea...
Okay, maybe not any Protoss attack. But I use it against a few in the huge army. That makes the army weaker. If you lock them
down so they are in the way of the others, then that is useful.
Remember how cheap ghosts are, and how they have a low amount of supplies.
>
> >Goliaths are great for taking down scouts, since scouts don't have a weak ground attack.
>
> Scouts are crap. No toss player in their senses build them.
> However, goliaths work well against all toss air, though large carrier
> swarms on ledges tend to give problems to them. In that case you'll
> need ghosts for support.
What do you mean scouts are crap? They have an excellent anti-air attack. Plus, they have a high amount of health, and they are
fast. What did you want to defend your shuttles with? Corsairs aren't an option. They don't have a very powerful attack compared
to the scout.
I use lockdown against everything I can basically. It saves me in the short term.
>
> >Bunkers should be used when you defend your tanks. Remember they are the most poweful defense in the game. Don't forget about
> >stimpacks. This is your best defense against nukes.
> >
>
> Stimpacks? Against nukes? 'scuse me?
> Bunkers are nice, but don't overdo it - With tanks, walling your base
> with buildings is most of the time just as effective(or on temple more
> effective), but you save the price of the bunker...
I meant remember to use stimpacks for the units in bunkers. Doubles the effectiveness.
When a nuke is dropping, you should put all your SCVs in bunkers. The only thing that gets damaged is the bunker, not the things
inside it. That is unless they build a few more nukes.
>
> >Missile Turrets are the most powerful anti-air defense in the game (by a small amount). But they are only good against large
> >units.
>
> Yes. But the main propose why you build them is detection, not AA...
Well, I build missile turrets around my base, and in my base. Do you think my base would be better without them?
>
> >SCVs are the most efficient at collecting vespene gas out of all races. Plus they can repair greatly.
>
> No they are not. They're the slowest and most inefficient of all
> workers. The best is the probe. SCVs do however have 20 extra HP,
> which come in handy in case your enemy drops your peon line...
Okay, they did this experiment at StarCraft.org
They tested the speed of gas collection for all three races using 3 workers, and 4 workers.
Terran came out top using 3 workers. With 4 workers, all races were the same.
I'm not sure if Terran truly are the fastest. All workers have the same speed. Do a race if you don't believe me (make a map
that does a race). If you want me to throw in my editing skills, then their speed is 1280, and their acceleration is 12277.
Yes, probes are dangerously effective. Did you know that the Protoss can build a pylon in 3/4 of the time it takes to build an
overlord or supply depot?
If you think about how many pylons they can lay down with one probe, then you'll see how effective a probe is.
Most inefficient? I would give that title to the Zerg.
>
> >Nukes should be used tactically. Only use them against static defenses.
>
> ...Which toss players really don't have, aside from a few cannons.
> Nukes are only good if you can catch him off guard and kill his army
> with it, which is almost never, since most people realize you'll
> either targeting their troops or their workers, and move them away for
> security reasons - I always move my troops when i hear a nuke
> launched, even if i don't see the red dot.
If you don't have static defenses at your Protoss base, I'll lockdown the movable ones to make them static.
>
> >Nukes are a lot more effective than Yamato Cannons, and
> >they take less time to build than a Battlecrusier.
> >
> Battlecruisers should not be used at all.
Shouldn't they? That's like saying carriers shouldn't be used at all. They have a nice weapon. It's just short range. That's
what the Yamato Cannon is for. 10 Battlecrusiers vs 10 Carriers would mean the Carriers would be dead, because of the Yamato
Cannon.
>
> >Defensive Matrix can be used when you want to drop units into enemy bases.
> >
> Defensive matrix has many uses. For example, if your enemy shift-ques
> his units to fire on one target at a time, DM that unit(and only that
> unit) =)
I never thought of that one. Very clever.
>
> >Valkyries are just as good as corsairs. But they cost more, and are a lot slower. This will be fixed in the 1.08 patch.
> >
> Uh, no. Valks are crap, corsairs are decent.
> Let's see. For 150/100 i can get a cheap, very cost-efficient unit
> that owns all fighter class air units in the game. That, and it can be
> used to seriously screw up terran defenses. I'd say it's worth its
> cost.
> For 200/125 i can get a slow crappy air unit that is only efficient in
> large numbers with a limited use. Corsairs are far more versatile than
> Valks. The limited usability of the valkyrie (AA, and ONLY AA) and its
> hight price make it one of the crappiest units in the game. If you
> need to kill muties, make M&M. Much more cost-efficient, plus they can
> be used to kill other things too. The only downside is mobility.
>
What I meant was they have the same weapon. Yes, I agree that disruption web is a priceless weapon. Fortunately, all this will
be fixed in the 1.08 patch, and the Valkyrie will be just as good as the Corsair. Both Valkyries and Corsairs are bad against
groups of mutalisks (because they have the same weapon). But if there was one better one, it would be the Valkyrie, since it
does all its damage at the same time.
If you put a Valkyrie up against a Corsair, the Valkyrie would win. This is only because the corsair has shields which will take
full damage. Also, the Valkyrie does all its damage at the same time, so it can hit the Corsair 8 shots in advance.
Corsairs and Valkyries don't have a better weapon than the Protoss Scout. But scouts are a bit more expensive.
>
> >Use Optical flare on observers. It isn't very useful to blind overlords, since any Zerg player will have a lot of them.
>
> I usually never bother researching optic flare, i find it a highly
> useless spell. If you have the chance to blind an observer, why not
> just kill it? More efficient...
Because a pointless observer will take up supply costs, and might not be noticed if handled in a group.
>
> >Restore all parasites using Restoration.
> >
> Yes.
>
> >Remember wraiths can cloak.
> >
> That is their only advantage, otherwise they're a horribly crappy air
> unit.
Wraiths have a better weapon than corsairs, and they cost the same amount. They both have special abilities. I think Disruption
web is better, so the wraiths have a better weapon. A much better weapon.
They are great at destroying carriers and guardians. Carriers won't be able to resist dying. If you had 2 wraiths for every
carrier, then the wraiths would win.
>
> >Comsat whenever you get the chance. At least every two minutes. I usually build 3 comsat stations. This gives the Terrans the
> >best map revealing option.
>
> Comsat whenever you have the chance, but before SVs it is good to have
> 50 emergency energy for quick cloak detection to avoid the worst
> surprises.
Yes, you're right about that. That's why you have 3 comsat stations. 2 can scan around the map every 30 seconds or so, and the
third is a backup.
>
> >Irradiate is mostly useful when used in a Zerg mineral line.
>
> Irradiate is most useful when used against swarms of zerg flyers.
I don't really like the irradiate spell. It has a slow attack.
>
> >Don't use it when you are being attacked at your base. Use it as a
> >sneak attack to unsuspecting units.
>
> I use irradiate to take out Zerg flyers, and that's pretty much all i
> do with it. You can get pretty damn far with only SVs and M&M, even
> guardians aren't a problem with enough SVs(of course having tanks and
> a few other units with you make you better prepared for other things,
> like lurks...).
Do you? I usually use irradiate on overlords as they fly around in huge groups. Most Zerg players get their overlords to patrol,
or put them all in the same place. They aren't really scaters. I might use valkyries against overlords.
>
> --
> The Melodramatic MuuMi
MuuMiMan
<thu...@trilobyte.net> was running around screaming something about
"Re: My Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
>
>"MuuMiMan"
><ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
>schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adbbf38...@uutiset.nic.fi...
>> In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, "BSTRhino"
>> <BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about "My
>> Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
>> away, he managed to say the following:
>> >I'm a Terran player, and I would say that I win 70% of the time with
>Terran, 50% of the time with Protoss, and 30% of the time
>> >with Zerg.
>>
>> Oi... Replace Terran with Protoss, Protoss with zerg and subtract 10%
>> of what's left and you have me as terran...
>
><corny japanese accent>
>You lose 90% of time with Terran on island map
>
But i do a lot better on land maps.
Still not good enough, though.
--
The Melodramatic MuuMi
I like Chocolate covered headZ!
- Bob-The-Vasudan
MuuMiMan
<BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about
him away, he managed to say the following:
>"MuuMiMan" <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com> wrote in message
>news:3adbbf38...@uutiset.nic.fi...
>
>> In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, "BSTRhino"
>> <BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about "My
>> Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
>> away, he managed to say the following:
>> >I'm a Terran player, and I would say that I win 70% of the time with Terran, 50% of the time with Protoss, and 30% of the
>time
>> >with Zerg.
>>
>> Oi... Replace Terran with Protoss, Protoss with zerg and subtract 10%
>> of what's left and you have me as terran...
>>
>> >Terrans aren't hard, you're just not used to them.
>>
>> They are hard. By all means. They require the most attention when
>> playing. Toss and zerg don't require even close as much micro as
>> terrans. It can be said that "you don't know how to use them", which
>> would translate into "you can't micro worth a damn", but i like to say
>> they're hard to use effectively.
>
>Are you saying that you don't micro with other races?
Yes i do. It's just that IMO the other races require less micro to
achive the same results as terran...
> I believe they require the same amount of micromanagement. People just
>never even try to play Terran.
>
Well, i play random in 90% of my games, and i've had my fair share of
terrans... Sometimes when i get a "terran streak"(10 games terran in
row... URGH.), i go nuts... =P
>> >Against a Protoss, remember firebats are the best units to rush with. Firebats dominate Zealots. You'll win most of the time
>> >using these guys.
>>
>> Most of what i say will mainly apply to Lost temple, since that's what
>> most non-BGH people play... Firebats are good, but they're too
>> limited. If he doesn't make a ton of zeals, you've wasted your money.
>> Zeals on the other hand are semi-decent ground units with multiple
>> uses...
>> Most of the time when against terran i only make 1-4 zeals and go
>> straight for goons and higher tech. M&M are too effective against
>> zeals, and you need higher tech in order to beat them. Or a supporting
>> cannon on the ledge.
>
>Marines and Medics are too effective against Dragoons.
They are indeed. The point is that the toss should quickly get
high-tech units (temps or reavers) which rapes M&M. And Goons are far
better than Zeals against tanks, which will be the main force of the
terran later in the game.
>I don't concentrate on building a lot of Medics, so my force is more
>powerful. One marine does more damage to a Dragoon in the same
>cooldown time. That's because Dragoons have an explosive weapon.
>Same story with Hydralisks.
I know that... Dragoons are rather crappy against 'rines, but work OK
against the mechanical units. A terran concentrating too much on M&M
will usually regret it once you get into mid-game, unless he manages
to kill off the tossie early on with a M&M rush of course.
>If you can get your enemy when he still has Zealots, then you should use firebats.
>
I usually only build a few, they tie up the zeals while the marines
shoot at the zeals from behind the bats.
>> >EMP is an excellent weapon against the Protoss.
>>
>> EMP is good, especially if he has corsairs (it drains their mana, and
>> people like to clump them all up in once place =), but i usually go
>> for irradiate first if he likes using lot's of templars.
>
>I don't use irradiate too much, because it is a slow attack. The templar will be
>able to cast 3 psionic storms before it is dead. I use irradiate mostly on mineral
>lines because it is a lot more effective than trying to get a bunch of mutalisks which
>can run away.
>
That's true. I mainly use Irradiate _before_ attacks to take out
defending temps at the base... a DMed SV isn't that easy to take out,
especially if he's not expecting it.
>> >Lockdown is probably your best choice against tank pushes or any Protoss attack.
>>
>> Wrongo. Lockdown is only useful when the enemy goes for a few big
>> expensive units(in practice, only the carrier... Well, reavers too if
>> he attempts a drop and you don't have tanks on standby). Locking down
>> a huge army of Dragoons is usually a bad idea...
>
>Okay, maybe not any Protoss attack. But I use it against a few in the huge army.
>That makes the army weaker. If you lock them
>down so they are in the way of the others, then that is useful.
Maybe it's just me, but i tend to find my ghosts are either dead when
i intend to use them, or then the enemy kills easily my other troops
because i'm microing my ghosts and not them =P
>Remember how cheap ghosts are, and how they have a low amount of supplies.
>
They are cheap, true, but their downside is that they require a lot of
research(which costs money and time) to make them good units =(
>> >Goliaths are great for taking down scouts, since scouts don't have a weak ground attack.
>>
>> Scouts are crap. No toss player in their senses build them.
>> However, goliaths work well against all toss air, though large carrier
>> swarms on ledges tend to give problems to them. In that case you'll
>> need ghosts for support.
>
>What do you mean scouts are crap?
High cost, low damage. Scouts are better than corsairs only against
heavier air units, and for that you can use templars with storm, or
the mucho cheaper dragoons (since the bigger air units are slow
suckers, the mobility of the goon isn't that much of a drawback).
>They have an excellent anti-air attack.
>Plus, they have a high amount of health, and they are
>fast.
The scout's attack sucks against small units (mutas), and they're
rather expensive when compared with the firepower you get.
If i expect lot's of fighter units, i go for corsairs. If i expect
heavy units, i invest more in templars(moreso than i usually do).
Yes i know templars can be broodlinged/EMPd, but when you got a dozen
or more around, it isn't likely that he'll get even half of them. And
for expansions, you can always put them in shuttles =P
>What did you want to defend your shuttles with?
Ground troops.
Or corsairs, if it's an island map.
>Corsairs aren't an option. They don't have a very powerful attack compared
>to the scout.
Corsairs out-gun scouts most of the time. The only time the scout is a
better choice is when fighting the bigger flying units, since their
armor eats up the splash damage done by the corsair.
>I use lockdown against everything I can basically. It saves me in the short term.
>
Well, if you're good at micro i guess that's an option =)
>> >Bunkers should be used when you defend your tanks. Remember they are
>the most poweful defense in the game.
They're also the most expensive, costing 300 minerals, though you can
always unload the bunker and use the marines elsewhere should you want
to...
>Don't forget about
>> >stimpacks. This is your best defense against nukes.
>> >
>>
>> Stimpacks? Against nukes? 'scuse me?
>> Bunkers are nice, but don't overdo it - With tanks, walling your base
>> with buildings is most of the time just as effective(or on temple more
>> effective), but you save the price of the bunker...
>
>I meant remember to use stimpacks for the units in bunkers. Doubles the effectiveness.
Ah yes. I usually don't have time for that - I'm most of the time too
buisy managing my other troops =P
>When a nuke is dropping, you should put all your SCVs in bunkers. The only thing that gets damaged is the bunker, not the things
>inside it. That is unless they build a few more nukes.
>
If i notice a dot in my peon line, i run away my peons =P
>> >Missile Turrets are the most powerful anti-air defense in the game (by a small amount). But they are only good against large
>> >units.
>>
>> Yes. But the main propose why you build them is detection, not AA...
>
>Well, I build missile turrets around my base, and in my base.
Uh? I hope you don't mean in a ring around your base to cover "all
entries and exits" for AA?
That's hideously expensive.
>Do you think my base would be better without them?
No.
I only build Turrets in my base so i have detection(and thusly air
cover) in most important places...
>>
>> >SCVs are the most efficient at collecting vespene gas out of all races. Plus they can repair greatly.
>>
>> No they are not. They're the slowest and most inefficient of all
>> workers. The best is the probe. SCVs do however have 20 extra HP,
>> which come in handy in case your enemy drops your peon line...
>
>Okay, they did this experiment at StarCraft.org
>They tested the speed of gas collection for all three races using 3 workers, and 4 workers.
>Terran came out top using 3 workers. With 4 workers, all races were the same.
>
>I'm not sure if Terran truly are the fastest. All workers have the same speed.
Yes, but IIRC they accelerate at different speeds... (probe being
fastest, SCV slowest).
>Do a race if you don't believe me (make a map
>that does a race). If you want me to throw in my editing skills, then their speed is 1280, and their acceleration is 12277.
>
>Yes, probes are dangerously effective. Did you know that the Protoss can build a pylon in 3/4 of the time it takes to build an
>overlord or supply depot?
Yep... A terran needs to tie SCVs up and Zerg needs to sacrifice
drones while tossie just warps the thing in and then goes back mining
=)
>If you think about how many pylons they can lay down with one probe, then you'll see how effective a probe is.
>
>Most inefficient? I would give that title to the Zerg.
>
Drones are nice in peon Vs. Peon vs. ling fights though, since they
have longer range than the other(they can "reach" over each other) two
workers =)
>> >Nukes should be used tactically. Only use them against static defenses.
>>
>> ...Which toss players really don't have, aside from a few cannons.
>> Nukes are only good if you can catch him off guard and kill his army
>> with it, which is almost never, since most people realize you'll
>> either targeting their troops or their workers, and move them away for
>> security reasons - I always move my troops when i hear a nuke
>> launched, even if i don't see the red dot.
>
>If you don't have static defenses at your Protoss base, I'll lockdown the movable ones to make them static.
>
Well, if you get the opportunity to lock down a few carriers or
reavers and then blast them... =P
>> >Nukes are a lot more effective than Yamato Cannons, and
>> >they take less time to build than a Battlecrusier.
>> >
>> Battlecruisers should not be used at all.
>
>Shouldn't they?
IMO, no.
Other units are more effective.
I'd rather take 3 tanks, 1 SV, and a goliath than 2 BCs for
example(well, specific units depend on the situation, but you get my
point)...
>That's like saying carriers shouldn't be used at all. They have a nice weapon. It's just short range. That's
>what the Yamato Cannon is for. 10 Battlecrusiers vs 10 Carriers would mean the Carriers would be dead, because of the Yamato
>Cannon.
>
Carriers are overall far better units than BCs - BCs are short
ranged(Yamato aside, but you only have one shot of that anyway, so
you'll need a shitload of BCs to make any bigger difference in a
battle), cost a ton of gas. Carriers cost less gas, have higher
armor(even though they have less HP, higher armor helps a lot more
when facing multiple small attacks, like that from marines, valks and
other low-damage units), but most important of all, their attack is
far superior to the BCs. The carriers attack has a long range, and it
totally screws any and all static base defenses. The way the carrier
attacks(and the fact that it leaves more gas for me to use on temps)
is IMO what makes the carrier a superior unit to the BCs. In a
head-to-head battle, the BC would of course win thanks to the yamato
cannon. But no sane player sends carriers alone to do anything...
Well, most of the time.
>> >Valkyries are just as good as corsairs. But they cost more, and are a lot slower. This will be fixed in the 1.08 patch.
>> >
>> Uh, no. Valks are crap, corsairs are decent.
>> Let's see. For 150/100 i can get a cheap, very cost-efficient unit
>> that owns all fighter class air units in the game. That, and it can be
>> used to seriously screw up terran defenses. I'd say it's worth its
>> cost.
>> For 200/125 i can get a slow crappy air unit that is only efficient in
>> large numbers with a limited use. Corsairs are far more versatile than
>> Valks. The limited usability of the valkyrie (AA, and ONLY AA) and its
>> hight price make it one of the crappiest units in the game. If you
>> need to kill muties, make M&M. Much more cost-efficient, plus they can
>> be used to kill other things too. The only downside is mobility.
>>
>What I meant was they have the same weapon. Yes, I agree that disruption web is a priceless weapon. Fortunately, all this will
>be fixed in the 1.08 patch, and the Valkyrie will be just as good as the Corsair.
I'll probably still be using M&M while on land maps - They're just so
much more versatile, unless your enemy is seriously mutaharassing
you... (but most zergies don't do that, since it requires lot's of
micro and constant attention =P)
>Both Valkyries and Corsairs are bad against
>groups of mutalisks (because they have the same weapon).
Bad against muties?
Muties are the units both Valks and Corsairs kill by the dozens.
> But if there was one better one, it would be the Valkyrie, since it
>does all its damage at the same time.
Huh?
Do you mean it does damage to the entire group at the same time or
what?
>If you put a Valkyrie up against a Corsair, the Valkyrie would win. This is only because the corsair has shields which will take
>full damage. Also, the Valkyrie does all its damage at the same time, so it can hit the Corsair 8 shots in advance.
It is also because of the fact that the Valkyrie's armor is 2, which
seriously reduces the splash damage effect of the corsair's attack.
However, you shouldn't compare the units head on - It's the same with
the carrier and the BC - You don't build them to fight each other, you
build them to fight other units.
>Corsairs and Valkyries don't have a better weapon than the Protoss Scout. But scouts are a bit more expensive.
>
Not true.
Well, might be true when only used against one unit. The Corsair does
~13.75 damage in the time the scout does 26. However, you got to
remember the splash damage. 10 corsairs d0 137 damage in _one shot_.
That's enough to kill the normal fighter units of the other races. Now
10 scouts (actually less if you compare the units cost-for-cost) would
do 260 points of damage against the units. However, with units like
scouts you most of the time micro your units to attack one target at a
time(shift-que them), and _very_ few players actually split their
scouts into two groups and put them to attack separate targets. This
means that a lot of firepower is wasted by the scouts - In 22 cooldown
units, the scouts will have killed 1 unit, while the corsairs will
have killed almost 3, not counting the splash damage they do. Of
course corsairs are more effective when just used with
attack-move(unless the enemy i seriously spread out) thanks to their
splash damage. I've had 10 corsairs annihilate a group of 16 wraiths
in 2 seconds - With only 2 corsairs lost. If i had used 10 scouts, i
would have suffered a lot more losses.
>> >Use Optical flare on observers. It isn't very useful to blind overlords, since any Zerg player will have a lot of them.
>>
>> I usually never bother researching optic flare, i find it a highly
>> useless spell. If you have the chance to blind an observer, why not
>> just kill it? More efficient...
>
>Because a pointless observer will take up supply costs, and might not be noticed if handled in a group.
>
Well, i guess that's something. Personally, i don't care for optic
flare, and usually leave it unresearched.
>> >Remember wraiths can cloak.
>> >
>> That is their only advantage, otherwise they're a horribly crappy air
>> unit.
>
>Wraiths have a better weapon than corsairs, and they cost the same amount.
See above the scouts vs. corsairs thing. The same applies for wraiths.
>They both have special abilities. I think Disruption
>web is better, so the wraiths have a better weapon. A much better weapon.
Again, better only when used against high-armor targets. Otherwise,
the corsair is a much more effective unit.
>They are great at destroying carriers and guardians. Carriers won't be able to resist dying. If you had 2 wraiths for every
>carrier, then the wraiths would win.
>
My experience is the opposite =P
Then again, i usually never build that many wraiths...
>> Comsat whenever you have the chance, but before SVs it is good to have
>> 50 emergency energy for quick cloak detection to avoid the worst
>> surprises.
>
>Yes, you're right about that. That's why you have 3 comsat stations. 2 can scan around the map every 30 seconds or so, and the
>third is a backup.
Yep. I usually never go for a nuke, i prefer to have more comsats
instead... =)
>>
>> >Irradiate is mostly useful when used in a Zerg mineral line.
>>
>> Irradiate is most useful when used against swarms of zerg flyers.
>
>I don't really like the irradiate spell. It has a slow attack.
>
Not that slow. And Unlike storm, irradiate has a cumulative effect.
(ie, irradiate two units that are close to each other and they'll take
double damage).
>> >Don't use it when you are being attacked at your base. Use it as a
>> >sneak attack to unsuspecting units.
>>
>> I use irradiate to take out Zerg flyers, and that's pretty much all i
>> do with it. You can get pretty damn far with only SVs and M&M, even
>> guardians aren't a problem with enough SVs(of course having tanks and
>> a few other units with you make you better prepared for other things,
>> like lurks...).
>
>Do you?
Yes...
>I usually use irradiate on overlords as they fly around in huge groups. Most Zerg players get their overlords to patrol,
>or put them all in the same place. They aren't really scaters. I might use valkyries against overlords.
>
My main AA against Zerg is Irradiate(well, actually M&M but Irradiate
+M&M when facing guardians), so i tend to spare it for when the real
battle begins, unless i have a very large surplus of SVs. The good
thing with irradiate is that once you're in the battle, the enemy will
have to fight it to the end, since if he runs away the irradiated
units, it'll die anyway but the enemy will take less damage =)
For overlord hunting, Wraiths are more effective, unless the overlords
are clumped (so you get some use for the splash damage of the valk).
--
The Melodramatic MuuMi
I like Chocolate covered headZ!
- Bob-The-Vasudan
Official supporter of Vasudan Grand Admiral Bob:
BSTRhino
Corsairs are worse than scouts against mutalisks. Sure they have splash damage, but they only do 1.25 damage with 8 cooldown.
Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks. Mutalisks also do splash damage, and they will do more damage than a corsair
will.
But, I'm not a Protoss or Zerg player, so I don't know which one is better.
I always recycle the marines I use in bunkers to defend my tanks. I only have about 20 marines.
With my Missile Turrets, I scatter my missile turrets inside my base. An small ring outside my base isn't very powerful.
Especially against corsairs.
Workers all accelerate at the same speeds. You can email Blizzard about it. I've already looked up the StarCraft data files.
Yes, Battlecrusiers shouldn't be used on their own. But I'm sure they aren't so bad you shouldn't even have one of them.
No, Valkyries and Corsairs aren't bad at all against mutalisks. There great.
Valkyries attack with 8 rockets all shot at one time. Corsairs fire one by one.
Yes, I see that scouts aren't as good as corsairs. You're the Protoss player, so I'll agree with you.
Christopher Childs
news:9bara6$m46$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> To compensate for the expensive research of ghosts, I always have 3
science facilities with 2 covert ops addons.
>
> Corsairs are worse than scouts against mutalisks. Sure they have splash
damage, but they only do 1.25 damage with 8 cooldown.
> Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks. Mutalisks also do
splash damage, and they will do more damage than a corsair
> will.
Sure, they have splash damage. That's the whole point. Groups of Corsairs
totally smash groups of Mutalisks for that reason.
--
Christopher Childs
Amusing code: (obviously not written by me :)
#include <stdio.h>
/* SigMask 0.3 (sig.c) 19990429 PUBLIC DOMAIN "Compile Me" */
/* build: cc -o sig sig.c */
int main(c,v)char *v; {return
!c?putchar(*v-1)&&main(0,v+1):main(0,"Disjt!Dijmet!=evccbAnbq/dpn?\v\1");}
Colin Jones
An excellent discussion. A good debate, point and counter point.
Just goes to show the diversity of tactics available. To use old
sayings "one man's meat is another man's poison" or "there is more than
one way to skin a cat". [Note: No cats were harmed in the writing of
this note nor is the use of violence against felines condoned]
Don't like to sound too greedy. But could I have some more please?
MuuMiMan
<BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about
"Re: My Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
>
>Corsairs are worse than scouts against mutalisks. Sure they have splash damage, but they only do 1.25 damage with 8 cooldown.
1.25 is quite a bit when you got many 'sairs around(8 corsairs firing
will be 10 damage done to all units that are close to the "target
unit" every 8 cooldown units...). Also, the area of the damage is
larger than you'd initially think by looking at the attack animation
(not nearly as large as the valkyries though).
3 Science facilities? Holy shite...
You better have lot's of expansions to cover that.
>Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
+50 minerals=)
>Mutalisks also do splash damage, and they will do more damage than a corsair
>will.
Yes, but a considerably smaller amount. Their rate of fire is also 30
when compared to 8 of the corsair, meaning the corsair will damage
more units faster than the muta.
As for scouts being superior to corsairs, you can make a test map.
Have 12 corsairs vs 36 mutas. Then replace the 'sairs with scouts. You
should see a noticeable difference (yes i know the Ai sucks at
targeting, but it gives you a somewhat good estimation of what will
happen in a real battle).
>I always recycle the marines I use in bunkers to defend my tanks. I only have about 20 marines.
>
I like to do that too... In early attacks, i empty all my bunkers and
send everything i have to the enemy =P
When fighting zerg though, you better have more than 20 marines...
>Workers all accelerate at the same speeds. You can email Blizzard about it. I've already looked up the StarCraft data files.
Oh well. Might be just my imagination playing tricks on me again...
>Yes, Battlecrusiers shouldn't be used on their own. But I'm sure they aren't so bad you shouldn't even have one of them.
IMO They are. However, if you can find some uses for them where other
units for the same money used would not perform better, thats good for
you =)
MuuMiMan
<cfj...@tpg.com.au> was running around screaming something about "Re:
My Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took him
away, he managed to say the following:
Well, if you post something i disagree with, i'm sure i'll reply to it
=P
Luc The Perverse
"MuuMiMan"
<ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
>
> +50 minerals=)
Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead loser?
(I misused fuckity didn't I?)
-Luc The Perverse
Do people realize I just choose random quotes from songs that I am listening
to write here because I don't care?
Christopher Childs
>
> "MuuMiMan"
> <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
>
> > >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
> >
> > +50 minerals=)
>
> Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead loser?
> (I misused fuckity didn't I?)
>
Is it just me, or were you just completely baffled by his original post so
you had to make this one? And yes, you misused fuckity.
...I think it's just me.
You could try to teach him Terran instead of insulting him...
--
Christopher Childs
#include <stdio.h>
[t]North
> <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
>
> > >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
> >
> > +50 minerals=)
>
> Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead loser?
> (I misused fuckity didn't I?)
His post did teach me a thing or two using Terran. All you did was trying to
insult him. Have a break, Have a Kit-Karen :)
Luc The Perverse
"Christopher Childs" <du...@map.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9bdpkd$8t1cc$1...@ID-17335.news.dfncis.de...
> "Luc The Perverse" <thu...@trilobyte.net> wrote in message
> news:tdkq9ar...@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "MuuMiMan"
> > <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
> > schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> >
> > > >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
> > >
> > > +50 minerals=)
> >
> > Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead
loser?
> > (I misused fuckity didn't I?)
> >
>
> Is it just me, or were you just completely baffled by his original post so
> you had to make this one? And yes, you misused fuckity.
>
> ...I think it's just me.
>
> You could try to teach him Terran instead of insulting him...
LOL. Since when was flaming no condoned in AGSC. Sorry Ele, welcome to
usenet
Luc The Perverse
"[t]North" <ste...@gtekmy.po.my> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9bdqc6$bko$1...@news4.jaring.my...
> "Luc The Perverse" <thu...@trilobyte.net> wrote in message
> news:tdkq9ar...@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "MuuMiMan"
> > <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
> > schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> >
> > > >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
> > >
> > > +50 minerals=)
> >
> > Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead
loser?
> > (I misused fuckity didn't I?)
>
>
> His post did teach me a thing or two using Terran. All you did was trying
to
> insult him. Have a break, Have a Kit-Karen :)
*Luc sobs* I'm sorry! *hug*
A Kit-Karen-Luc threesome?
Christopher Childs
Yeah, I know how hard it is.. but he actually had some good ideas, and it
was an on topic post! My god!
[t]North
Believe me 2 is enough! :)
<Puts pacifier into Luc's mouth to shut him>
Luc The Perverse
I did read the ideas and some sounded alright. But . . but . . . but . . .
Ah shutup! I post more than you
Christopher Childs
Yeah.. so.. ?!
/me kicks Luc
MuuMiMan
<thu...@trilobyte.net> was running around screaming something about
"Re: My Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
>
><ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com>
>schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:3adc836b...@uutiset.nic.fi...
>
>> >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
>>
>> +50 minerals=)
>
>Is it just me or is this Rhino idiot a complete fuckity brain dead loser?
>(I misused fuckity didn't I?)
>
BSTRhino
>
> 1.25 is quite a bit when you got many 'sairs around(8 corsairs firing
> will be 10 damage done to all units that are close to the "target
> unit" every 8 cooldown units...). Also, the area of the damage is
> larger than you'd initially think by looking at the attack animation
> (not nearly as large as the valkyries though).
Okay, you're right there. Corsairs were designed to kill mutalisks or similar tightly packed units. I have seen the splash
damage. I know how large it is.
>
> 3 Science facilities? Holy shite...
> You better have lot's of expansions to cover that.
Well, yes it does cost a lot of gas.
>
> >Remember that corsairs cost the same as mutalisks.
>
> +50 minerals=)
That was a dumb thing to say. I'm an editor of StarCraft, and I see those values all the time. I knew that, I just didn't say
that right. Maybe if I said Wraiths or something.
>
> >Mutalisks also do splash damage, and they will do more damage than a corsair
> >will.
>
> Yes, but a considerably smaller amount. Their rate of fire is also 30
> when compared to 8 of the corsair, meaning the corsair will damage
> more units faster than the muta.
> As for scouts being superior to corsairs, you can make a test map.
> Have 12 corsairs vs 36 mutas. Then replace the 'sairs with scouts. You
> should see a noticeable difference (yes i know the Ai sucks at
> targeting, but it gives you a somewhat good estimation of what will
> happen in a real battle).
You're right here. Corsairs are perfect against mutalisks. But I still use stimpacked marines in bunkers against mutalisks. I
just think they are a lot more effective than the Valkyrie. Maybe because Valkyries cost too much. Corsairs are just right.
>
> >I always recycle the marines I use in bunkers to defend my tanks. I only have about 20 marines.
> >
> I like to do that too... In early attacks, i empty all my bunkers and
> send everything i have to the enemy =P
> When fighting zerg though, you better have more than 20 marines...
Against any race, the defend should be just as good, this is because all races balance out to be the same. The Zerg will have
more weaker units. But remember, the bunkers are there to defend my tanks. Not really to attack, even though units in bunkers
have the same range as a sunken colony.
>
> >Yes, Battlecrusiers shouldn't be used on their own. But I'm sure they aren't so bad you shouldn't even have one of them.
>
> IMO They are. However, if you can find some uses for them where other
> units for the same money used would not perform better, thats good for
> you =)
Well, I just can't get over the power of the Yamato Cannon. I don't think there is anything like it. But it is annoying when you
get mind controlled or hit by a feedback. Both those spells have the same range as the Yamato Cannon. I think for feedback that
is unfair. But for mind control, its range suits, because the Dark Archon pays for its loss. But depending on what unit it just
took over, it may have a bit too much range.
>
> --
> The Melodramatic MuuMi
karen
Luc The Perverse wrote:
What's happening here? And who is Kit?
Did I miss somethin again?
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
02:07:20 GMT, when karen <ka...@anywhereusa.com> the high templar
said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:
>What's happening here? And who is Kit?
>Did I miss somethin again?
lots.
--
DOH!
=)
PA Offizielle Gewebe Stelle webmaster
PA Official web site webmaster
"Great chese comes from happy cows
Happy Cows come from California"
"Warum ist die Porsche in die Schüssel, und nicht im Porsche?"
"Rehab is for quitters."
"I'd like Math class if we didn't do math in it."
"The floggings will continue until morale improves."
*about a person who had just mowed grass*
"You have to ignore him, he's been kicking leprechauns again."
"I'd quit school, but it's the only place I can get any sleep."
"Let your smile be your umbrela, and you'll get very wet."
"Sarcasm is just yet another free service we offer."
"Congratulations, you've won a sweepstakes and don't have to pay income tax again!"
"We must rejoice in this morbid voice..."
"If triangles could talk..."
ICQ:65589349
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
http://www.crazyzealot-starcraft.com/
http://pronounarmy.homestead.com/
re-vamped+ sig v1.2 C-Z QE
karen
"!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!" wrote:
> I was using some stimpacks in alt.games.starcraft on Tue, 17 Apr 2001
> 02:07:20 GMT, when karen <ka...@anywhereusa.com> the high templar
> said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:
> >What's happening here? And who is Kit?
> >Did I miss somethin again?
> yes.
> lots.
I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
Luc The Perverse
"karen" <ka...@anywhereusa.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3ADBAE75...@anywhereusa.com...
>
>
> "!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!" wrote:
>
> > I was using some stimpacks in alt.games.starcraft on Tue, 17 Apr 2001
> > 02:07:20 GMT, when karen <ka...@anywhereusa.com> the high templar
> > said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:
> > >What's happening here? And who is Kit?
> > >Did I miss somethin again?
> > yes.
> > lots.
>
> I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
Yes we don't appreciate you watching the TV during sex. We can, but not you
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:>>
>What's happening here? And who is Kit?
>> >Did I miss somethin again?
>> yes.
>> lots.
>
>I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
=)
karen
Luc The Perverse wrote:
Huh? I was not having sex at that time
> We can, but not you
Why?
karen
"!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!" wrote:
> I was using some stimpacks in alt.games.starcraft on Tue, 17 Apr 2001
> 02:45:30 GMT, when karen <ka...@anywhereusa.com> the high templar
> said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:>>
> >What's happening here? And who is Kit?
> >> >Did I miss somethin again?
> >> yes.
> >> lots.
> >
> >I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
> I suggest ignoring them if you have no clue. That's what I do
> =)
I usually do, but but I saw my name in there ;)
The Arcane Chas
serious contemplation, !!CrAzYzEaLoT!! <ktwils...@NOSPAM.crazyzealot-
starcraft.com> put finger to keyboard and produced the following;
>I was using some stimpacks in alt.games.starcraft on Tue, 17 Apr 2001
>02:45:30 GMT, when karen <ka...@anywhereusa.com> the high templar
>said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and said:>>
>>What's happening here? And who is Kit?
>>> >Did I miss somethin again?
>>> yes.
>>> lots.
>>
>>I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
>I suggest ignoring them if you have no clue. That's what I do
>=)
LOL
You ignore them - therefore you have no clue?
(I suspect that wasn't what you meant to say).
--
Cheers,
Chas.
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination".
Mark Landin
ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com
(MuuMiMan) wrote:
>In a place known as alt.games.starcraft, m5...@earthlink.net (Mark
>Landin) was running around screaming something about "Re: What is the
>best Terran strategy?". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
>him away, he managed to say the following:
>>On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 09:53:37 -0400, Lou Cypher <l...@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>What is the best Terran strategy?
>>
>>Medics and Marines w/stim and upgrades. If your opponent is toss, get
>>some firebats too. Use these forces to pressure and harass your
>>opponent until you get your seige tanks going. Tanks ultimately win
>>most matches for Terrans.
>>
>No.
>Well, at least if you play temple. Skip M&M completely, and go
>straight for tanks(vultures with mines first if he's slow in getting a
>core). All you need to have is a few marines (2-4) to "hold down the
>fort", ie, behind your wallin(2 depots on "top" of the ramp, barracks
>acts as gate on the side) at the choke. No zeals get through (if he
>tries to mass rush, just send a few SCVs to repair the things). If he
>comes with goons, don't worry, you'll have tanks coming in 10 seconds
>and then your problems are gone...
Ok I wasn't thinking of application for just one or two maps ...
certainly some maps require a more tailored strategy which deviates
from what most other maps need. In general, M&M and tanks are the keys
to Terran victory. But you're right, sometimes other tactics work
better in some cases.
>
>>If your opponents go heavy air, skip battlecruisers .. go with
>>turrets,
>
>No.
>Turrets suck against toss air. If he goes air, he goes carriers and
>probably a few corsairs for web. Turrets are for detection, you want
>your AA to be mobile. Invest in wraiths (don't if he's heavy on
>corsairs), or rather, a ton of goliaths.
Turrets are better against Zerg and Terran air, and you just can't
have TOO MUCH detection. I don't think the original question was a
terran-vs-toss question ... I just mentioned toss at the first of my
reply because of the particular need for firebats in that case.
>>cloaked wraiths,
>> valks,
>
>...Are useless. Well, to me anyway...
But they can soak up lots of fire, and you can leverage the air weapon
upgrades more. A valk can fire many more +3 weapons in a given period
of time than any other air unit.
>
>>and Goliaths with the range upgrade.
>>Against Zerg, I really like to go overlord hunting if my wraiths
>>aren't needed elsewhere. Overlords are just too vulnerable considering
>>how critical they are to Zerg success.
>
>Yup. As a zergie, i like to keep my OLs everywhere around the map
>above ledges and on other hard-to-spot areas where they still give me
>some visual view of strategical places of the map. It's amazing how
>few people actually actively hunt OLs, and the majority who do,
>usually leave the thing alone after killing a few OLs. You should
>continually search the map for OLs, as you're not only harming his
>supply, you're denying him recon of the map.
You are also cutting down his options for drops into your base.
>
>>Later in the game, ghosts with lockdown can make a big difference.
>>
>>Lack of mobile detection is Terran's only real weakness. Sci Vessels
>>are too high up the tech tree, and once you get them they are too
>>danged slow.
>
>Slow?
>Huh?
>They're the fastest damn mobile detector in the game.
Could be .. I've never looked up the numbers vs. an upgraded observer.
Perhaps they just SEEM really slow. :)
>
>>(If your opponent is toss, then you have more incentive
>>to build Science Vessels and you should get them as soon as you can
>>after you build decent defense and economy).
>
>I find myself to have much more SVs when i play against Zerg, mainly
>because SVs is the bane of all Zerg air, and you really don't need to
>invest in air units at all if you have plenty of SVs with irradiate.
Here's where the SV slowness really comes into play. To effectively
use SV's for defense, you have to build a real sh*tload of them,
because they work best if they don't have to move anywhere. Perhaps
because observers don't NEED to get anywhere fast, they seem
subjectively faster.
>
>>
>I like to pop them down on empty islands in island games, especially
>on those who are on the "main routes" to your base... I wouldn't
>bother on land maps though, as they'll be easily destroyed by anything
>that walks past them. Might as well use a cheaper SCV for that.
Except SCV's can't detect, or kill observers. A marine might be a
better choice than the SCV ... everytime I see an SCV sitting idle, I
just KNOW he should be mining something somewhere...
karen
The Arcane Chas wrote:
LOL, That wasn't what I meant to say
MuuMiMan
<BSTR...@ihug.co.nz> was running around screaming something about
"Re: My Terran Wisdom". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
>You're right here. Corsairs are perfect against mutalisks. But I still use stimpacked marines in bunkers against mutalisks. I
>just think they are a lot more effective than the Valkyrie. Maybe because Valkyries cost too much. Corsairs are just right.
>
Same here. Valks are too expensive for their limited use. Marines,
though not as mobile as valks, are more versatile and cheap.
>> >I always recycle the marines I use in bunkers to defend my tanks. I only have about 20 marines.
>> >
>> I like to do that too... In early attacks, i empty all my bunkers and
>> send everything i have to the enemy =P
>> When fighting zerg though, you better have more than 20 marines...
>
>Against any race, the defend should be just as good, this is because all races balance out to be the same.
I wouldn't say that - Some units work better against some race than
others.
> The Zerg will have
>more weaker units. But remember, the bunkers are there to defend my tanks. Not really to attack, even though units in bunkers
>have the same range as a sunken colony.
>
I could be wrong, but IIRC a sunken has a longer range than a bunker,
since i recall someone trying to offensive bunker me and then having
me kill it with a sunken that was built just outside its range... But
maybe that's just before the range upgrade.
>> >Yes, Battlecrusiers shouldn't be used on their own. But I'm sure they aren't so bad you shouldn't even have one of them.
>>
>> IMO They are. However, if you can find some uses for them where other
>> units for the same money used would not perform better, thats good for
>> you =)
>
>Well, I just can't get over the power of the Yamato Cannon. I don't think there is anything like it. But it is annoying when you
>get mind controlled or hit by a feedback. Both those spells have the same range as the Yamato Cannon. I think for feedback that
>is unfair. But for mind control, its range suits, because the Dark Archon pays for its loss. But depending on what unit it just
>took over, it may have a bit too much range.
>
I don't usually bother with dark archons, i just make more regular
templars =P Storm can be used to kill other things than just BAs or
other expensive units, unlike Mind control. Feedback though is a nice
spell to have, especially if you're facing a broodling-happy Zerg
player =)
!!CrAzYzEaLoT!!
high templar said, "Re: My Terran Wisdom". I got another stim pack and
said:
>>>> yes.
>>>> lots.
>>>
>>>I guess, I gotta watch these guys closer huh? ;)
>>I suggest ignoring them if you have no clue. That's what I do
>>=)
>
>LOL
>
>You ignore them - therefore you have no clue?
>
>(I suspect that wasn't what you meant to say).
way... I *meant* that if I read 1 message and had no clue, I ignored
the entire thread... or, something like that, anyway...
--
DOH!
=)
PA Offizielle Gewebe Stelle webmaster
PA Official web site webmaster
"Great chese comes from happy cows
Happy Cows come from California"
"I don't like getting quoted when I say soemthing stupid" - Andy
Christopher Childs
<ihatespamandyoumustremov...@adjective-army.com> wrote
in message news:3adf4b51...@uutiset.nic.fi...
> I could be wrong, but IIRC a sunken has a longer range than a bunker,
> since i recall someone trying to offensive bunker me and then having
> me kill it with a sunken that was built just outside its range... But
> maybe that's just before the range upgrade.
>
Marines start off with a range of 4, placed in a bunker gain 2, and with the
range upgrade gain another 1, putting them at the range of 7.
Sunkens have a range of 7 by default.
Bunkers can get a range of 8 with Ghosts put in them.. but I don't know why
anyone would do that. Maybe to try and kill Guardians with pea shooters =)
Luc The Perverse
> Sunkens have a range of 7 by default.
>
> Bunkers can get a range of 8 with Ghosts put in them.. but I don't know
why
> anyone would do that. Maybe to try and kill Guardians with pea shooters
=)
Ehat is the guardian range? I was absolutely certain that they could
outshoot ghosts in bunkers. Isn't it like 12 or something?
Christopher Childs
Guardians have 8. Siege Tanks have 12. Ghosts have 6 (+2 bonus in bunkers
brings them to 8). Marines have 4, upgrade brings them to 5. Upgraded
Goliaths have 8 against air units. Psi Storm has 9. Dragoons have 4,
upgrade brings them to 6.
Luc The Perverse
> "Luc The Perverse" <thu...@trilobyte.net> wrote in message
> news:tdovns...@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Christopher Childs" <du...@map.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:9bhtkk$94ia0$1...@ID-17335.news.dfncis.de...
> > > Sunkens have a range of 7 by default.
> > >
> > > Bunkers can get a range of 8 with Ghosts put in them.. but I don't
know
> > why
> > > anyone would do that. Maybe to try and kill Guardians with pea
shooters
> > =)
> >
> > Ehat is the guardian range? I was absolutely certain that they could
> > outshoot ghosts in bunkers. Isn't it like 12 or something?
> >
>
> Guardians have 8. Siege Tanks have 12. Ghosts have 6 (+2 bonus in
bunkers
> brings them to 8). Marines have 4, upgrade brings them to 5. Upgraded
> Goliaths have 8 against air units. Psi Storm has 9. Dragoons have 4,
> upgrade brings them to 6.
Well that explains why I can never PSI a damn tank. Thank you!
[t]North
>
<Snip>
> Well that explains why I can never PSI a damn tank. Thank you!
Try PSI from the back while you run your fast Zealots in front as damage
soakers.
BSTRhino
--
BSTRhino
MSN Messenger: BSTR...@ihug.co.nz
"Christopher Childs" <du...@map.com> wrote in message news:9bi5nb$9a6hs$1...@ID-17335.news.dfncis.de...
Christopher Childs
news:9bj4m7$vdr$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> You sound like you edit StarCraft. Any connection here? Or are you just
reading the StarCraft compendium?
>
> --
> BSTRhino
> MSN Messenger: BSTR...@ihug.co.nz
>
I've read the SCC before.. haven't visited it yet for this thread. I
remember way too much for a game I don't play a lot anymore...
MuuMiMan
Generally, on "normal" maps, you still want to get factory units ASAP,
but completely skipping the infantry is usually not an option then...
You could also try a M&M rush, especially if it's an open map where
you can easily get behind his mineral line.
>>No.
>>Turrets suck against toss air. If he goes air, he goes carriers and
>>probably a few corsairs for web. Turrets are for detection, you want
>>your AA to be mobile. Invest in wraiths (don't if he's heavy on
>>corsairs), or rather, a ton of goliaths.
>
>Turrets are better against Zerg and Terran air, and you just can't
>have TOO MUCH detection.
True =)
But remember the money spent on turrets can always be used on
something else...
>But they can soak up lots of fire, and you can leverage the air weapon
>upgrades more. A valk can fire many more +3 weapons in a given period
>of time than any other air unit.
>
True.
But i still think they're not worth it. Not just effective enough for
their cost.
[SNIP]
>>>Lack of mobile detection is Terran's only real weakness. Sci Vessels
>>>are too high up the tech tree, and once you get them they are too
>>>danged slow.
>>
>>Slow?
>>Huh?
>>They're the fastest damn mobile detector in the game.
>
>Could be .. I've never looked up the numbers vs. an upgraded observer.
>Perhaps they just SEEM really slow. :)
Heh =)
Well, their speed was increased in the 1.04 patch, so if you don't
have it, i strongly suggest you get the latest one =P
>>>(If your opponent is toss, then you have more incentive
>>>to build Science Vessels and you should get them as soon as you can
>>>after you build decent defense and economy).
>>
>>I find myself to have much more SVs when i play against Zerg, mainly
>>because SVs is the bane of all Zerg air, and you really don't need to
>>invest in air units at all if you have plenty of SVs with irradiate.
>
>Here's where the SV slowness really comes into play. To effectively
>use SV's for defense, you have to build a real sh*tload of them,
>because they work best if they don't have to move anywhere. Perhaps
>because observers don't NEED to get anywhere fast, they seem
>subjectively faster.
>>
True... If i see zergie going air, i usually go for 2-3 starports
churning out SVs(depending on how much my gas mines allow). 12 SVs
means a hell of a lot of irradiate =)
>>>
>>I like to pop them down on empty islands in island games, especially
>>on those who are on the "main routes" to your base... I wouldn't
>>bother on land maps though, as they'll be easily destroyed by anything
>>that walks past them. Might as well use a cheaper SCV for that.
>
>Except SCV's can't detect, or kill observers.
No, but they're cheaper.
I'd rather save 50 minerals and let him have his observer. Turrets are
so easily dispatched that it's just doesn't make any sense of building
them...
>A marine might be a
>better choice than the SCV ... everytime I see an SCV sitting idle, I
>just KNOW he should be mining something somewhere...
>
No, the SCV is faster and has a larger sight radius than a marine....