damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
Dylan
damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
i mean, they are good once upgraded and attack in groups!! they take out air
units instantly!!
their hp is ok, and their armor is upgradable!!
so what the hell is the problem with them??
Dylan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Wanna work on a game that is gonna to be famous??
We need programers, Artists, etc....
Icq me @ 7055293
Icq eagle(manager) @ 1619600
email me @ school...@usa.net
email eagle(manger) @ idont...@aol.com
John Piddock
On Sat, 9 May 1998 12:18:26 -0700, "Dylan" <h8sc...@usa.net> wrote:
>damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
>
>i mean, they are good once upgraded and attack in groups!! they take out air
>units instantly!!
>
>their hp is ok, and their armor is upgradable!!
>
>so what the hell is the problem with them??
>
>
I don't think they suck.
-John
Nicholas Knight
neither do I... they are the backbone of my attacks in late game
John Piddock wrote in message <3554cf67...@news.connix.com>...
Punisher
Well I guess people hate goliaths basically because they do suck. They are
totally weak against an onslaught of mutalisks.
Stack Overflow
I've just started playing but so far I think they are very useful.
Just like any other units, there are times where they are almost
useless, but also times where they just plain kick ass.
Of course, I'm a newbie to this game, so what do I know?
On Sat, 09 May 1998 21:49:44 GMT, jpid...@connix.com (John Piddock)
wrote:
Bryan Wires
Punisher wrote:
> Well I guess people hate goliaths basically because they do suck. They are
> totally weak against an onslaught of mutalisks.
They're the best thing you can have against an onslaught of mutalisks! (Well
okay, an onslaught of cloaked wraiths or fully powered battlecruisers are
better) but when you think about it, they have air attack don't they? They
have the HP don't they? What would I rather have facing those mutas?
Goliaths. Why? Because Marines die too easy, tanks can't attack air, neither
can firebats, ghost reload time sucks, so what else do I have?
Dominic Donegan
Goliath's perform unprotected oral sex on donkeys.
Stack Overflow wrote:
--
Dominic aka Jaba'al aka DelvEcCiO
jon.
> They're the best thing you can have against an onslaught of mutalisks!
(Well
>okay, an onslaught of cloaked wraiths or fully powered battlecruisers are
>better) but when you think about it, they have air attack don't they?
They
>have the HP don't they? What would I rather have facing those mutas?
>Goliaths. Why? Because Marines die too easy, tanks can't attack air,
neither
>can firebats, ghost reload time sucks, so what else do I have?
i would rather have marines...
for the cost of building those goliaths.
build marines tons of em.. and upgrade and stimpack them.
mutas goes down like flies.. of course if they have enuff guardians its a
different story.
but anyway i almost never build goliaths.
Nobody Here
jon. wrote:
damaged grunts stay damaged.
damaged goliaths can be repaired.
A few goliaths left at defensive points allows grunts to run amok
causing havoc elsewhere. <g>
(I build a few goliaths, but generally go for more grunts.)
Mike Richardson
How else do they drink through a straw?
--
Michael Richardson
remove the .NOSPAM to reply
rich...@db.erau.edu.NOSPAM
http://erau.db.erau.edu/~richarmi
------------=====================-----------------
"Computers are incredibly fast, accurate and stupid.
Humans beings are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant.
Together they are powerful beyond imagination."
-=Albert Einstein=-
1879 - 1955
Stack Overflow
On Mon, 11 May 1998 04:11:17 GMT, "Mike Richardson"
<rich...@db.erau.edu.NOSPAM> wrote:
>How else do they drink through a straw?
Isn't there a vacuum cleaner called Goliath?
Hogfather
Thats stupid, sorry but it is. Goliaths are possibly the WORST thing vs. Mutalisks
as they suffer 1/5 of their damage in explosive damage penalty vs small creatures.
Use marines - their normal damage is 100% vs. mutalisks.
Hogfather
Bryan Wires wrote:
> Punisher wrote:
>
> > Well I guess people hate goliaths basically because they do suck. They are
> > totally weak against an onslaught of mutalisks.
>
Hogfather
Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
Mike
Hogfather wrote:
>
> Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
A non-upgraded Goliath does 20 air damage => 10 to mutas.
A non upgraded Marine does 6 ground/air damage against any unit.
A fully upgraded goliath does 26 air damage => 13 to mutas.
A fully upgraded Marine does 9 ground/air damage against any unit.
With stimpack, Marines do a better job than Goliaths, but it makes them
die a lot faster.
Goliaths can do near-stimmed marines damage to mutas, and a lot better
against the other air units.
For Mutas, Goliaths are like stimmed marines that you can heal instead
of killing them with the stimpack.
Mike
Hans-Georg Michna
Hogfather <ra...@fl.net.au> wrote:
>Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
What exactly does this mean? You're not saying the Goliaths
damage themselves when they attack a mutalisk?
Hans-Georg
[No mail please]
Clay
On Sat, 9 May 1998 12:18:26 -0700, "Dylan" <h8sc...@usa.net> wrote:
>damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
I wouldn't say they suck...just don't have an obvious place in the
strategy of the game. They aren't hard core ground attack like tanks
and they aren't hard core air like missile turrets. They are a little
bit of both, and that makes them harder to use effectively or in small
numbers. I think an experianced player can use Goliaths effectively,
but in most cases I would rather have their value in Marines.
_______________________________
Clay Niemann
www.dillonet.com
Remove NO_JUNK to reply by E-Mail
James Garcia
Hans-Georg Michna wrote in message <3557e2fb...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>Hogfather <ra...@fl.net.au> wrote:
>
>>Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
>
>What exactly does this mean? You're not saying the Goliaths
>damage themselves when they attack a mutalisk?
He means that they only do 1/2 damage to the unit i.e. A goliath that
normally does 20 damage to a large unit, since it does explosive damage and
mutas are small, the goliath will only do 10 damage to the muta.
>
>Hans-Georg
>
>[No mail please]
Mark Asher
On Sun, 10 May 1998 13:31:33 +0800, "jon." <at...@att.net.hk> wrote:
>> They're the best thing you can have against an onslaught of mutalisks!
>(Well
>>okay, an onslaught of cloaked wraiths or fully powered battlecruisers are
>>better) but when you think about it, they have air attack don't they?
>They
>>have the HP don't they? What would I rather have facing those mutas?
>>Goliaths. Why? Because Marines die too easy, tanks can't attack air,
>neither
>>can firebats, ghost reload time sucks, so what else do I have?
>
>
>i would rather have marines...
>for the cost of building those goliaths.
>build marines tons of em.. and upgrade and stimpack them.
>mutas goes down like flies.. of course if they have enuff guardians its a
>different story.
>but anyway i almost never build goliaths.
I feel the same way. I'd rather have the marines. Still, goliaths are
handy as mobile anti-air.
Upgraded marines rule the battlefield, IMO.
Mark Asher
jon.
Goliaths cost gas.
Marines don't.
It's a lot easier to mass produce marines. Although they die easy, u can
constantly pump em out (especially in late games.)
I'm not really sure but for some reason I just simply don't use goliaths..
I would much rather prefer the equivelent of marines for the cost of
building goliaths.. (and u do save a lot of gas. so u can use on other
stuff). If Blizzard take away the half damage thing from the mutas then
goliaths will have some more use, mainly for killing off the mutas.
And I do wish they take away the half damage shit..
Mike wrote in message <3556D91D...@worldnet.net>...
>Hogfather wrote:
>>
>> Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
>
FYP19
Goliaths look like that big robot in Robocop. remember that one Robocop had
to fight?
Hans-Georg Michna
"James Garcia" <garc...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>Hans-Georg Michna wrote in message <3557e2fb...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>>Hogfather <ra...@fl.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>>Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
>>
>>What exactly does this mean? You're not saying the Goliaths
>>damage themselves when they attack a mutalisk?
>He means that they only do 1/2 damage to the unit i.e. A goliath that
>normally does 20 damage to a large unit, since it does explosive damage and
>mutas are small, the goliath will only do 10 damage to the muta.
James,
thanks. I knew this, but the formulation was misleading. I
thought I had missed something.
Hans-Georg
[No mail please]
Steven & Wendy Brandt
Ah, but let's consider WHY the Terrans invented the Goliath in the first
place. To shoot down Mutalisks and Scouts? Unlikely. To shoot down other
humans? (!)
Remember, all Terran air units are size Large. This makes the Goliath a
good choice against them. And if the odd Marine wanders into their path, it
can handle that too.
In the final mission of the Terran campaign, I conceived of this use for the
Goliath. As I was able to secure more land, I wanted to establish a tight
defense so that the forces I was using in constant skirmishes could go take
some new territory. I set up choke points, just about everywhere where I
could grab some high ground; I'd put a bunker in the valley between the
elevated areas, have a couple of Siege Tanks to collect a toll from anyone
passing through, and a few missile turrets in case of an air strike... and
so on. This worked great against a ground force, but I found I was
unpleasantly surprised when the enemy bypassed the choke points altogether
with his dropships.
If you're ever in a similar situation, you may want to consider a Goliath
patrol along your borders. They're fast enough to cover ground quickly.
Their relative fragility is well-compensated when they're on places that are
hard to reach by ground (like the elevated areas in my example). Unlike
missile turrets, you can move them--if, for instance, you just conquered a
new hill and want to include it into your border. And the units they kick
butt against are precisely the ones you don't want jumping past your border.
Anyway, that's what I use 'em for--walking missile turrets that can shoot
infantry and run from anything else.
jon. wrote in message <6j741b$95n$1...@m5.att.net.hk>...
Tigen
On Sat, 9 May 1998 12:18:26 -0700, "Dylan" <h8sc...@usa.net> wrote:
>damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
Because most people are idiots in this world. That's why everyone
plays zerg, because it fits with the idiotic mode of play...you can
still do alright with zerg even though your strategy sucks.
When they try to play humans, they don't realize that goliaths are
designed to complement the siege tanks against air units.
TIGEN
Hogfather
All true. Vs Terrans and Protoss they have a solid use. However my initial
response was in regards to a comment made that Goliaths make good anti-Mutalisk
forces.
I use Goliaths, mostly as a medium-armoured complement to my main land force of
mostly Siege Tanks, and of course some bads of Marines, mostly to assist Base
clearing and to use to hit enemy Siege Tanks in siege mode (after distracting
them with A Guardian rush backed by my own Siegers). They are good multi-purpose
patrol guards able to give back against any unit in the game except for the
cloaked. I just dont use em when fighting Zerg. =)
Hogfather
"Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
Hogfather wrote:
Thats stupid, sorry but it is. Goliaths are possibly the WORST thing vs.
Mutalisks
as they suffer 1/5 of their damage in explosive damage penalty vs small
creatures.
Use marines - their normal damage is 100% vs. mutalisks."
"Goliaths are possibly the WORST thing vs. Mutalisks
as they suffer HALF of their damage in explosive damage penalty vs small
creatures."
This statement (And I DID immediately repost when i found that using the keypad
I hit 5 instead of 2, and you replied to that copy) speaks for itself. I dont
find it convoluted or misleading.
If you suffer a reduction in something from a penalty by a factor, you remove a
portion of the something, you dont receive hurt.
I just thought it was pretty friggen clear.
Hogfether
Hans-Georg Michna
Hogfather <ra...@fl.net.au> wrote:
>"Goliaths are possibly the WORST thing vs. Mutalisks
>as they suffer HALF of their damage in explosive damage penalty vs small
>creatures."
The misconception came only from the ambiguity of "they".
All cleared up now.
Hans-Georg
[No mail please]
jon.
>>damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
>
>Because most people are idiots in this world. That's why everyone
>plays zerg, because it fits with the idiotic mode of play...you can
>still do alright with zerg even though your strategy sucks.
>
>When they try to play humans, they don't realize that goliaths are
>designed to complement the siege tanks against air units.
>
>TIGEN
>
It's rather becuase you can simply use the marines instead of goliaths.
it's cheaper. (against zerg players)
because of the half damage thing for the mutas, I don't build any goliaths.
maybe against protoss...
Doctor Who
> >damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
>
> Because most people are idiots in this world. That's why everyone
> plays zerg, because it fits with the idiotic mode of play...you can
> still do alright with zerg even though your strategy sucks.
>
> When they try to play humans, they don't realize that goliaths are
> designed to complement the siege tanks against air units.
They rock! When attacking, I use 12 marines in front, 4 siege tanks
(scattered like a diamond) and 8 goliaths and 2 SCV's. (note, that is 2
hotkeys: 1 for the marines and 1 for everything else)
In later stages, I usually have a third group of wraiths,
battlecruisers, and a science vessel, but I still try to attack all air
with my goliaths and then cloak the wraiths and attack with them)
Paul
Sang Choi
First of all, Zergs DO take strategy, why do people say that they don't? A
rush is only the rushing stage, if ur a dumbass, then u'll be killed during
that initial stage. Zergs just take on a different type of strategy than
the other two races. The burrow, the speed of the zergling, the low cost
for units and buildings (300 minerals for a new colony), the defiler's
plague.. etc....
Doctor Who wrote in message <355A85EA...@fuse.net>...
Nicholas Knight
I use terrans and I realize that but I also realize that goliaths alone can
make a good offense on someones expansion without the use of any other units
Tigen wrote in message <35596e3d.46065277@news>...
>On Sat, 9 May 1998 12:18:26 -0700, "Dylan" <h8sc...@usa.net> wrote:
>
>>damit, why do people think goliaths suck???
>
>Because most people are idiots in this world. That's why everyone
>plays zerg, because it fits with the idiotic mode of play...you can
>still do alright with zerg even though your strategy sucks.
>
>When they try to play humans, they don't realize that goliaths are
>designed to complement the siege tanks against air units.
>
>TIGEN
>
Nicholas Knight
then you couldnt fit in the SCV's... .8+4 is 12...
Michael Lo
I decided to peek at the strategy guide to learn the stats of the units.
Goliaths are actually pretty good. Their autocannons do full damage against
anything. Their missiles on the other hand work like this. Mutalisks will
die quick against a Goliath according to the guide because a Goliath actually
causes full damage against them, because Mutalisks only have light armor.
Against Guardians and other airborne tanks the Goliath is in trouble because
the Goliath causes only 1/2 damage to medium armor and 1/4 against heavy armor
(such as Battle Cruiser, Guardian, heck almost anything in the air except
Mutalisks have heavy armor according to the guide).
Whether this is true in practice is unknown to me.
Hogfather <ra...@fl.net.au> writes:
>Make that HALF their damage in explosive damage penalty.
>Hogfather wrote:
>> Thats stupid, sorry but it is. Goliaths are possibly the WORST thing vs. Mutalisks
>> as they suffer 1/5 of their damage in explosive damage penalty vs small creatures.
>> Use marines - their normal damage is 100% vs. mutalisks.
>>
>> Hogfather
>>
>> Bryan Wires wrote:
>>
>> > Punisher wrote:
>> >
>> > > Well I guess people hate goliaths basically because they do suck. They are
>> > > totally weak against an onslaught of mutalisks.
>> >
>> > They're the best thing you can have against an onslaught of mutalisks! (Well
>> > okay, an onslaught of cloaked wraiths or fully powered battlecruisers are
>> > better) but when you think about it, they have air attack don't they? They
>> > have the HP don't they? What would I rather have facing those mutas?
>> > Goliaths. Why? Because Marines die too easy, tanks can't attack air, neither
>> > can firebats, ghost reload time sucks, so what else do I have?
:x
:x
Doctor Who
> I decided to peek at the strategy guide to learn the stats of the units.
> Goliaths are actually pretty good. Their autocannons do full damage against
> anything. Their missiles on the other hand work like this. Mutalisks will
> die quick against a Goliath according to the guide because a Goliath actually
> causes full damage against them, because Mutalisks only have light armor.
> Against Guardians and other airborne tanks the Goliath is in trouble because
> the Goliath causes only 1/2 damage to medium armor and 1/4 against heavy armor
> (such as Battle Cruiser, Guardian, heck almost anything in the air except
> Mutalisks have heavy armor according to the guide).
>
> Whether this is true in practice is unknown to me.
Hello,
In my experience, (I am a Zerg player basically, but play human a lot too) I think
the goliaths are awesome against zerg. In particular, mutalisks and guardians. I don't
care what a manual says. No one ever puts out 1 goliath and expects it to hold the fort.
I usually have a bunch, ready to fight a bunch of mutas or kill guardians that come
roaming in.
As testimony, as Zerg, before making a flying attack, I'll send in a group of queens
to broodle goliaths or if ground attack, tanks.
Goliaths are awesome against guardians, because they are "movable towers" plus some.
Paul
Dylan
upgraded goliaths rule!!!
Dylan
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Wanna work on a game that is gonna to be famous??
We need programers, Artists, etc....
Icq eagle(manager) @ 1619600
email eagle(manger) @ idont...@aol.com
Tigen
>First of all, Zergs DO take strategy, why do people say that they don't? A
>rush is only the rushing stage, if ur a dumbass, then u'll be killed during
>that initial stage. Zergs just take on a different type of strategy than
>the other two races. The burrow, the speed of the zergling, the low cost
>for units and buildings (300 minerals for a new colony), the defiler's
>plague.. etc....
You have to admit they require much less management than terran or
protoss. There's movable overlord "farms" which also transport and
spy, all your units come out of one building, and there's not many
upgrade buildings to worry about. Then there's the versatility of
zerg units. Most Terran units suck by themselves, requiring complex
combined arms. But zerg, just throw a bunch of hydras out and you'll
be ok. Of course, tossing in zerglings, mutas and guardians doesn't
hurt either, but that doesn't take much thinking. Queens and defilers
can be nice but I rarely find them to be necessary, usually just for
"style points."
TIGEN
Doctor Who
Tigen,
I don't believe this at all. The zerg do require a lot of management to use
them effectively. I'll give a few examples, countering yours.
1) If you have an overlord, hanging out over the edge of your base (looking
for ghosts/nukes), they always get attacked, and run back into your base.
2) The example about the terrans "sucking" in individual units isn't true
really. Put together 5 siege tanks/7 goliaths and you can counter anything. Move
them up slowly, it isn't that hard.
3) Your example, of throwing a bunch of hydras is true, but not very smart.
It is too easy to hurt large groups of zergs with siege tanks or psionic storms.
If the opposite person is smart, and scouts, they can easily handle any zerg
force.
4) You DON'T use queens and defilers? They are always a preface to an
attack, sneak attacks, and scouting for me.
5) etc..etc..
I've learned one thing about the "zerg haters" and that is that they don't want
to think, they just want to fight. Zerg armies are easily opposed and defeated
IF you can scout properly, see when scouts are coming, and stop/minimize the
expansions. I've found most of the zerg haters, just want 2 hours to build up
their base, and then everyone runs to the middle for a big fight.
GEE, that's great, but I'm a strategist.
Doctor Who
Tigen,
I don't believe this at all. The zerg do require a lot of management to use
them effectively. I'll give a few examples, countering yours.
1) If you have an overlord, hanging out over the edge of your base (looking
for ghosts/nukes), they always get attacked, and run back into your base.
2) The example about the terrans "sucking" in individual units isn't true
really. Put together 5 siege tanks/7 goliaths and you can counter anything. Move
them up slowly, it isn't that hard.
3) Your example, of throwing a bunch of hydras is true, but not very smart.
It is too easy to hurt large groups of zergs with siege tanks or psionic storms.
If the opposite person is smart, and scouts, they can easily handle any zerg
force.
4) You DON'T use queens and defilers? They are always a preface to an
attack, sneak attacks, and scouting for me.
5) etc..etc..
I've learned one thing about the "zerg haters" and that is that they don't want
to think, they just want to fight. Zerg armies are easily opposed and defeated
IF you can scout properly, see when attacks are coming, and stop/minimize the
Dan Zerkle
Doctor Who (drca...@fuse.net) wrote:
: 4) You DON'T use queens and defilers? They are always a preface to an
: attack, sneak attacks, and scouting for me.
Once you can them, you can win most any game using only
mutalisks, guardians, drones, and overlords. That is
The Problem With Starcraft.
The only way a protoss player can stop them is to use psi
storm, and you can deal with that by spreading out your
flyers.
The only way terrans can deal with them is to have a bunch
of marines and a whole LOT of cloakable wraiths (which are
more expensive than the mutalisks) or battle cruisers
(same).
Blizzard says the balance problem is due to more cheaters
using zerg, but that seems like nonsense to me.
--
Dan Zerkle zer...@cs.ucdavis.edu
GCS d(---)(!) p- c++ !l u++ e++(+++) m s++/-- !n h+(--) f g+++(-) w+ t+ r(-) y+
Stamp out Internet spam! See http://spam.abuse.net/ to help.
Dave
Dan Zerkle wrote in message <6juveu$dem$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...
>Doctor Who (drca...@fuse.net) wrote:
>: 4) You DON'T use queens and defilers? They are always a preface to an
>: attack, sneak attacks, and scouting for me.
>
>Once you can them, you can win most any game using only
>mutalisks, guardians, drones, and overlords. That is
>The Problem With Starcraft.
>
>The only way a protoss player can stop them is to use psi
>storm, and you can deal with that by spreading out your
>flyers.
>
>The only way terrans can deal with them is to have a bunch
>of marines and a whole LOT of cloakable wraiths (which are
>more expensive than the mutalisks) or battle cruisers
>(same).
>
>Blizzard says the balance problem is due to more cheaters
>using zerg, but that seems like nonsense to me.
The zerg are too powerful, I'd like to see them toned down a bit and I play
as zerg.
I think people are afraid to do anything to the game this early on but it is
clear that the zerg have an advantage.
Trajen.
Bu-TT-LoVEr
Just make it so that the Damn hatchery only has 1 (ONE) larva!!!! That will
solve the problem.
Hans-Georg Michna
Bu-TT-LoVEr <sod...@usa.net> wrote:
>Just make it so that the Damn hatchery only has 1 (ONE) larva!!!! That will
>solve the problem.
Well, that would weaken them too much. It is already a
disadvantage that they cannot stuff 5 units into the
manufacturing schedule like the other races, but have to attend
to the larvae all the time.
I am for a slight toning down of the Zerg as well, though. It
has to be done carfully, so the Zerg don't end up as the weakest
race. Nobody wants that.
Hans-Georg
[No mail please]
Hogfather
> I am for a slight toning down of the Zerg as well, though. It
> has to be done carfully, so the Zerg don't end up as the weakest
> race. Nobody wants that.
Definetly. The balance is delicate, but weighed slightly in favour of Zerg I
think, however it certainly isnt greatly swayed. Skill still counts for a lot in
my opinion.
Hogfather