#freetalk-gamejams-2024-01-20

[ch...@netyaroze.com]

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Net Yaroze chat server:
http://netyaroze.com/chat
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Channel: #freetalk-gamejams
Date: 2024-01-20
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 22:37
Wow thats more then Lara Crofts high 200s IIRC
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:38
yeah XD, but its all because of the levels being so simple that i have space for more tris else where
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 22:39
Cool
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:41
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-19 22:39:23.673000
Cool
....Replying to....

you be looking fine in my game XD
im trying not to use lighting if i can nail that i will be golden
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 22:45
Without a light itll look flat like a cartoon, textures are okay without a light in 3D IMO
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:45
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-19 22:45:02.290000
Without a light itll look flat like a cartoon, textures are okay without a light in 3D IMO
....Replying to....

yeah, im trying to draw shades on the model persay (like Megaman Legends ps1)
but in my case i am limiting texture to 64x64 for the whole model
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 22:48
Why so small textures?
Per vertex colours is also good without a light IIRC
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:49
because im planning on porting the game to other platforms around a week or two after release
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:49
.....Attachment....image.png - 36259B
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831005751858036849/1198036535132569640/image.png?ex65bd7178&is65aafc78&hm50a5f287d5fb8fa26efb2b85e6a00e08e93b631905febc92b7bc38121c53e4a1&
.....Attachment....
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:49
i think its ok need to finish it tho
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 22:49
and need to fix that visor color, i dont like the brown on it
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:02
looks cool
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:02
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-19 23:02:00.534000
looks cool
....Replying to....

share some of your game progress man, dont leave us hanging!!!!!
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:05
@mike.garcia MIKE!!!!! DONT DO US LIKE THAT!!!!!
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:07
I havent had time for a game this year, with the 3D stuff and other things
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:07
its not like I make games anyway
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:08
really, no game
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:08
I find the backend stuff more interesting
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:08
no yamarco 3d ?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:08
well before yarmico3D, there has to be bouncing balls 3D
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:09
I have that, but I need that in html5
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:09
so Im figuring out emscripten
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:09
then Ill start on it
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:11
Yarmico1 and 2 came from stuff I did a year before, so this is the year before Yarmico 3
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:12
oooh thats awesome, ok then ill be around for next years 3d game, ill most likely have physics down on the ps1
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:13
nice!
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:15
next years game jam... I was thinking being mouse focused, only because its so easy to DIY and its a very novel idea on PS1 and should be easy to port to PC etc
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:15
do you use SDL1 or 2?
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:19
my C engine is written using SDL2 and OpenGL FFP
my C++ engine is using SDL3 and modern OpenGL (this engine is still not finished tho)
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:19
wow! cool
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:20
why not SDL1 on GL FFP?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:21
SDL1 support a lot of older systems that would use FFP
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:21
FFP Fixed Function Pipeline
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:22
glBegin glEnd
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:23
i did have a version SDL1 of my engine but i was noticing that most of my game releases were being done on more mordern hardware and SDL1 was becoming a bit problematic

but SDL2 is only for the PC part
the dreamcast part uses PVR
psp uses GU
and psv uses vitagl
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:25
I thought SDL1 support those?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:25
still very impressive
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:26
have you looked at vulkan by any chance?
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:28
yeah i have, and i have written some basic vulkan but the explicity of it makes a bit weird for my liking
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:29
and yeah it does, but SDL1 sacrifices a lot of performance which i didnt want to give up
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:32
....Replying to....
aionmagan#0
2024-01-19 23:28:59.602000
yeah i have, and i have written some basic vulkan but the explicity of it makes a bit weird for my liking
....Replying to....

its like console programming
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:32
....Replying to....
aionmagan#0
2024-01-19 23:29:17.019000
and yeah it does, but SDL1 sacrifices a lot of performance which i didnt want to give up
....Replying to....

thats fair
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:33
.....Attachment....balls.mp4 - 4365198B
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/831005751858036849/1198047524284547103/balls.mp4?ex65bd7bb4&is65ab06b4&hmc6a0cb811cddda230d50f5ddbc35540e1dc3546a09a81748e15df62ca7a391c2&
.....Attachment....
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:33
testing PSX textures, colours both and without normals
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:53
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-19 23:33:08.529000

....Replying to....

this is really cool!!!!!
i can see the that ps1 has trouble with bouncing balls

is this an engine you are working on ?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:57
its a framework, not an engine... its not optimized 50x balls with 32 quads each, the room has 24 quads
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-19 23:58
damn!!!
is this the framework you are going to use for yarmico 3d ?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:58
lol yes, its using yarmico2, its very hacky
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:59
I posted the code here, https://github.com/horde3d/Horde3D/issues/224
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-19 23:59
Horde3D nodes are a PITA
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:00
i dont know what PITA means tho lmao
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:00
Pain In The A
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:00
oooh XD lmao!!!
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:07
do you use a scene graph?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:09
its a pretty old concept, I think today its more associated with bones (ie skeletons)
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:15
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 00:09:08.108000
its a pretty old concept, I think today its more associated with bones (ie skeletons)
....Replying to....

in my C engine i use vertex moprhing (closer and even MD2)

in my C++ im using MD5 and slowly implementing FBX (FBX will not be implemented for consoles tho)
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:15
but i have never heard it been called scene graph to be honest
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:15
ah nodes are what gsCoordinate2 in NY is
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:16
its peeks matrixs into a stack in GL FFP
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:17
i may try to do something with it, i actually am very interested in implementing bone animation in ps1 to do some really cool thing if i can
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:20
IMO its hard because of lack of tools that support animation (complex), I posted one here https://discord.com/channels/827039316802011156/827480259116269588/1180292408475385906
Im using it more as a simple layer system I guess
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 00:21
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 00:20:07.402000
IMO its hard because of lack of tools that support animation (complex), I posted one here https://discord.com/channels/827039316802011156/827480259116269588/1180292408475385906
Im using it more as a simple layer system I guess
....Replying to....

mmm i may take a look after i finish a few of my projects
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 00:23
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3755998/what-is-the-point-of-the-matrix-stack-in-opengl
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 01:41
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 00:23:01.793000
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3755998/what-is-the-point-of-the-matrix-stack-in-opengl
....Replying to....

i use the FFP but i dont use the matrix stack since my revision of the C engine from SDL1 to SDL2 (due to having support for matrix and quaterions for all platforms, this new solution means i have matrix implementations in Assembly for psp/Gamecube and Ps2 instead of C)

but my matrix class does have stacking available, its just not with glPop/glPush
in my case its AMatrixPop/AMatrixPush
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 01:54
....Replying to....
aionmagan#0
2024-01-20 01:41:17.424000
i use the FFP but i dont use the matrix stack since my revision of the C engine from SDL1 to SDL2 (due to having support for matrix and quaterions for all platforms, this new solution means i have matrix implementations in Assembly for psp/Gamecube and Ps2 instead of C)

but my matrix class does have stacking available, its just not with glPop/glPush
in my case its AMatrixPop/AMatrixPush
....Replying to....

nice! its a simple concept and its pretty powerful
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 01:55
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 01:54:41.907000
nice! its a simple concept and its pretty powerful
....Replying to....

are you going to use it in the future for something ?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:06
probably, I like nodes, Horde3D goes overboard and ruines it IMO, IE rending the parent also renders all the children
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:07
its great for simple animation, ie helicopter parent and rotating child node for blades
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:10
I imagine its also useful for landscapes segments... chunks
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 02:12
but why not implement your own ? its not very difficult and there are a few books that shows you how to do such things
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:24
I know, I started doing that LOL then I thought Horde3D should be able to handle simple use cases
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:24
I think I was wrong
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 02:24
XD hahaha its usually like that
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 02:24
something like that happened with my collision system
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:42
yeah, but H3D isnt my code and I dont think theyll loosen their nodes
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 02:46
I mean the PSX scene nodes were designed in 1993 and H3D cant replicate it? Doesnt seem right to me
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:18
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 02:46:34.045000
I mean the PSX scene nodes were designed in 1993 and H3D cant replicate it? Doesnt seem right to me
....Replying to....

is the H3D you are using ever actually used on ps1 ? the ps1 has a very weird standard in comparison to other consoles (which makes it a lot easier to develop imo)
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:22
....Replying to....
aionmagan#0
2024-01-20 03:18:13.295000
is the H3D you are using ever actually used on ps1 ? the ps1 has a very weird standard in comparison to other consoles (which makes it a lot easier to develop imo)
....Replying to....

hahaha no its a modernish engine from the late 2000s
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:23
I liked h3d because it compiles to a C like library and the scene/node system
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:23
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-20 03:22:03.179000
hahaha no its a modernish engine from the late 2000s
....Replying to....

mmm i cant say i have heard of it to be honest, will have to take a look an see how it works
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:24
it was created in a university in Germany IIRC
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:25
I think its only being used by the mods and me
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:27
mods ? do you mean the original creators ?
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:27
and i may use it to try an build something, theres always something to learn from other engines
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:28
yes creators and a github admin
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:29
Its plain GL, but its not great, I lot DIY or plug it in
but I would guess it would port to mostly anything running GL2
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:31
I was hoping emscripten would just work but nope, missed it by 3 functions
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558441026914877441/1198062626161311894/image.png?ex65bd89c5&is65ab14c5&hm14d3e1cc48b835d9619d37f74fae8586e5186ea91d2242dda117e1ef17940052&
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:31
that would have been cool tho
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:32
its using shaders tho
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:33
yes, its GL2 GL4 & ES3
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:33
so how is your framework compiling for both pc and ps1?
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:33
thats the whole reason i used FFP over shaders, because its easier for compiling for platforms that do not use shaders like ps1 / psp and such
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:36
ah, I think Net Yaroze being mostly static 3D object would be better using frame buffer objects, ie shaders
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:37
but I wanted to use to sometime better then GL and still be low level, h3d is pretty much that
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 03:39
the glue between NY & h3d is a simple API that replicates h3ds design, init, getresource, getnode, rendernode etc everything is a handle (ints) to something and the glue handles it
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 03:43
mmm i think i understand what you mean, but there is a strong difference between FBOs and shaders, shader is code that runs on gpus while VBO and VAO is just unpacked data, so in that part i dont quite understand how you run the same thing in either ps1 and PC, or do you have a list of defines for that to treat each thing differently ?
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 04:08
....Replying to....
mike.garcia#0
2024-01-19 23:59:18.747000
I posted the code here, https://github.com/horde3d/Horde3D/issues/224
....Replying to....

its not hard, its just function abstraction
I posted the code there.
TMD address correlates to a file name, and its loaded rendered etc
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 04:10
its still a mess and has a lot missing
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@aionmagan#0 - 2024-01-20 04:18
oh neat ill give it a check
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@mike.garcia#0 - 2024-01-20 04:25
its nothing impressive, game.c acts as the game init and main which calls functions from y3dNY.c or PC/y3dPC.c the TMD data is via the data.h and the table in PC/build.h
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