parrying multi-hit supers?
tortoise
all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large oval
projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
The problem is I have no visual indication of when the hits are
coming, so parrying at the right time is more a guess than
anything. So I've been trying to listen to the rate of the hits
when I block the attack and duplicate that rhythm for the
parries, but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
do which is throwing me off.
Is the only answer to memorize the parry patterns for every move
or is there some sort of general rule that can be applied to
everything?
Oh, I'm playing 2i if that matters.
---
---
Matt
mgreer[at]artic.edu
Coleman Ford owes me $50
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sol t kim
tortoise <mgreerN...@artic.edu.invalid> wrote:
>I'm still having trouble with parrying a multi-hit attack that is
>all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large oval
>projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
Oh, Matt, that's the easiest super to parry....i'll tell you the way I
figure it out (although i know you haven't seen me on my good parry days
for some reason...but may be because of the dynamites exploding on the
dennis's roof top....i swear.)
i parry multi-hitting supers by the sound. first, block the damn thing,
and then memorize the timing. tic..tic..tic..tic..tic. next time, parry
the first one like you would do the fireball (tap lightly; that helps) and
then just tap forward according to the rythem. it's largly issue of
practice, but the sound is one thing that helps me the most.
> but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
>do which is throwing me off.
believe it or not, 2i is generous enough in the timing so that this
doesn't really matter. if you are off, than you should still have enough
time to pull back to block.
>Is the only answer to memorize the parry patterns for every move
>or is there some sort of general rule that can be applied to
>everything?
if you are having trouble parrying multiple hitting supers, then you
should find a way to minimize the hits. you can jump, and then parrying
just once will likely be all you need, for instance.
>Oh, I'm playing 2i if that matters.
heh. matt, i think i'll be in Dennis' tomorrow evening show up if you have
time.
>---
>---
>
>Matt
>mgreer[at]artic.edu
>
>Coleman Ford owes me $50
>
>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
--
tortoise
sol...@midway.uchicago.edu (sol t kim) wrote:
>i parry multi-hitting supers by the sound. first, block the damn
thing,
>and then memorize the timing. tic..tic..tic..tic..tic.
yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. But I could swear that pause
is affecting me. I first started on easy multi hits like Gill's
fireball. And man does it ever feel like that second parry needs
to come a lot later than the second tic when blocking it.
>> but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
>>do which is throwing me off.
>
>believe it or not, 2i is generous enough in the timing so that
this
>doesn't really matter. if you are off, than you should still
have enough
>time to pull back to block.
It could be because I'm mostly practicing on the DC where the
parry window was tightened a bit. But still at the arcade that
pause seems like its messing me up. Maybe it's just all in my
head.
>if you are having trouble parrying multiple hitting supers, then
you
>should find a way to minimize the hits. you can jump, and then
parrying
>just once will likely be all you need, for instance.
yeah but i want to parry em! :) the other problem is they're
pretty infrequent. I only get a shinku hadoken or something
thrown at me once every 20 games or so.
>heh. matt, i think i'll be in Dennis' tomorrow evening show up
if you have
>time.
if you can make it around nine oclock or later then sure I'll be
there. I'd kill for a good opponent right about now. What little
competition was there is all completely gone. Dennis' needs to
get 3s or something. I don't care if the game isn't as good if it
will bring people back.
Jinston
news:35766730...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com...
> In article <Ksvm4.133$I3.1740@uchinews>,
> sol...@midway.uchicago.edu (sol t kim) wrote:
>
> >i parry multi-hitting supers by the sound. first, block the damn
> thing,
> >and then memorize the timing. tic..tic..tic..tic..tic.
>
> yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. But I could swear that pause
> is affecting me. I first started on easy multi hits like Gill's
> fireball. And man does it ever feel like that second parry needs
> to come a lot later than the second tic when blocking it.
I haven't played 2i in a while, but Urien's super that you mentioned in 3s
is parried by a steady rate. No pause, but that could just be 3s.
Side note: I parried Chun-Li's Super Art II. Who knew it was so easy? It's
actually easier than the SBK!!! Too bad there was no one around to drop
their jaws. Only problem is those 2 damn pauses some times screw me up.
Now if only I could parry that damn ShinRyuKen! ^_^
Anyone know the timing of Ken's Kick Super? It's kind of erratic it seems.
I always jack up when I try on that.
Oh yeah. One of those 3s skill smith tapes shows Chun cancelling super 2
into another super 2. I can't seem to do that. I'm also trying it on super
3, since it puts you back right next to her to do it again, no success.
Anyone figure out the timing?
--
Jinston
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--------
Arlieth Tralare
> all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large oval
> projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
Oyy... I think the Temporal Thunder gradually speeds up a little while you're
parrying.
Umm, have someone use Akuma (perhaps on your quarter) to do 3-hit (shakunetsu)
fireballs, and just parry them. It'd also be helpful for them to pick the
Messatsu Gou Hadou (#1 I believe) which is around 8 hits, but it's been a while
since someone's used it against me. Anyhow, the parrying window in 2i is more
forgiving than 3s (unless you're playing the home version).
> The problem is I have no visual indication of when the hits are
> coming, so parrying at the right time is more a guess than
> anything. So I've been trying to listen to the rate of the hits
> when I block the attack and duplicate that rhythm for the
> parries, but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
> do which is throwing me off.
Wait till ya try 3rd Strike parrying >=) Tricky to relearn timings after 2i.
> Is the only answer to memorize the parry patterns for every move
> or is there some sort of general rule that can be applied to
> everything?
fireballs have the same rythym, spinkicks have a slightly slower tempo (Ken's
shippu jinrai kyaku is also tricky to parry because it's slower than you expect)
etc, etc... so you will have to figure out exceptions to the rules. And some
supers only need the first hit to be parried before you can retaliate and bust
them out of it.
tinder
tortoise <mgreerN...@artic.edu.invalid> wrote:
>I'm still having trouble with parrying a multi-hit attack that
is
>all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large
oval
>projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
>
>The problem is I have no visual indication of when the hits are
>coming, so parrying at the right time is more a guess than
>anything. So I've been trying to listen to the rate of the hits
>when I block the attack and duplicate that rhythm for the
>parries, but the game pauses a split second after every parry
you
>do which is throwing me off.
Im no parry master but i hope i this helps...
Well seems like, you'll just have to slow down the rate of your
parrys when it comes to projectiles. Basically you have to
memorize the timing for each move just because the parrying
frames slow down the rate of the actual hits when you are
blocking the fireball, super or whatever. You probably noticed
this difference when you parry ryu's ex or super fireball. Also
some moves just 'sound' the same when you block them but timing
of the parry is different. Urien ex fireball, gill head stomp,
etc..come to mind. But in general i find the timing on parrying
supers a split second longer than the actual'sound' of blocking
the move. Basically you get the rhythm and timing down after a
few successful attempts.
The biggest problem i have at this moment is getting the initial
parry off when my opponent starts a super. This is hard to gauge
especially in the air where my opponent cancels let's say.. a
parried dragon uppercut by me into levelII super. Argh! Do you do
the parry movement right when you see the flash, slightly after,
or is the timing specific to that super? Parry masters plz reply
-tinder-
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
up..I pretty much nearly parried everything before my DC game stopped loading
(scratch..:( )
what I did (thanks to Zilla) was go into training and set the computers moves
to "blocking" mode. There, do each super on the comp (in which he will parry)
that way you can see and feel the rythm of the super..after a while it sticks
in your head.
I find the hardest part of parry any super is not parrying the whole thing, but
the first move...
:P
Peter "Mouko" Nguyen
~Xero-Crew~
Mouko on IRC
Xero...@aol.com or Miggity Mo...@aol.com
robo...@my-deja.com
tortoise <mgreerN...@artic.edu.invalid> wrote:
> In article <Ksvm4.133$I3.1740@uchinews>,
> sol...@midway.uchicago.edu (sol t kim) wrote:
> >heh. matt, i think i'll be in Dennis' tomorrow evening show up
> if you have
> >time.
>
> if you can make it around nine oclock or later then sure I'll be
> there. I'd kill for a good opponent right about now. What little
> competition was there is all completely gone. Dennis' needs to
> get 3s or something. I don't care if the game isn't as good if it
> will bring people back.
You guys have to go to sjg, I know it's a pain, but I honestly think 3S
is a better game than 2i, well, at least Hugo is designed the way Hugo
is meant to be designed. However, if you guys insist on playing at "My-
ear-drums-are-bleeding-at-Denis'" then let me know like 5 days in
advance. I want some comp.
Dale
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
arlieth...@my-deja.com
"Jinston" <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote:
> "tortoise" <mgreerN...@artic.edu.invalid>
wrote in message
032.remarq.com...
Kinda hard to do that when the timing depends
completely upon the buttonmashing of the other
player...
> Anyone know the timing of Ken's Kick Super?
It's kind of erratic it seems.
> I always jack up when I try on that.
it's a lot slower than you think =P
> Oh yeah. One of those 3s skill smith tapes
shows Chun cancelling super 2
> into another super 2. I can't seem to do
that. I'm also trying it on super
> 3, since it puts you back right next to her to
do it again, no success.
> Anyone figure out the timing?
you need to supercancel your 2nd super, if that
makes sense (where normally you'd superjump to
get a two-hit fierce in), try doing the motion
during the final kick.
> --
> Jinston
> --------
> LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone sending unsolicited
commercial e-mail to this address
> will be charged a $1,500 proof-reading fee.
This is an official
> notification. Failure to abide by this will
result in legal action as per
> the following: By US CODE Title 47,sec.227(a)(2)
(b), a
> computer/modem/printer meets the definition of
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send any unsolicited ads to
> such equipment. BY SEC 227 (b)(3)(c)a
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> Sec. is punishable by action to recover actual
monetary loss, or $1500,
> which ever is greater.
> --------
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>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
tortoise
<arl...@west.net> wrote:
>Wait till ya try 3rd Strike parrying >=) Tricky to relearn
timings after 2i.
hopefully it's similiar to 2i-DC parrying, which I'm getting the
hang of.
>fireballs have the same rythym, spinkicks have a slightly slower
tempo
I'm not having trouble with stuff like hurricane kicks because I
can watch the feet come around and get the rhythm of the parry
visually as opposed to just from the sound.
ive gotten some good suggestions so far. I liked Mouko's idea of
watching the computer parry, I'll have to try that. I'll see if I
can get someone to use akuma as well (shouldn't be too hard.)
---
---
Matt
mgreer[at]artic.edu
Coleman Ford owes me $50
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Raphael Russell
the first super and then cancel from that. I don't play Chun-li much,
if ever, but that should do it for you, it's called a null cancel. That
means you throw out an attack that you know will miss just so that you
can then cancel into another attack that will continue a combo. It's
not used very often in street fighter games, but KOF does see its
occasional use.
A.o.D.
etc.
Jinston wrote:
>
> I haven't played 2i in a while, but Urien's super that you mentioned in 3s
> is parried by a steady rate. No pause, but that could just be 3s.
>
> Side note: I parried Chun-Li's Super Art II. Who knew it was so easy? It's
> actually easier than the SBK!!! Too bad there was no one around to drop
> their jaws. Only problem is those 2 damn pauses some times screw me up.
> Now if only I could parry that damn ShinRyuKen! ^_^
> Anyone know the timing of Ken's Kick Super? It's kind of erratic it seems.
> I always jack up when I try on that.
>
Kakarot007
>I'm still having trouble with parrying a multi-hit attack that is
>all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large oval
>projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
>
>The problem is I have no visual indication of when the hits are
>coming, so parrying at the right time is more a guess than
>anything. So I've been trying to listen to the rate of the hits
>when I block the attack and duplicate that rhythm for the
>parries, but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
>do which is throwing me off.
>
>Is the only answer to memorize the parry patterns for every move
>or is there some sort of general rule that can be applied to
>everything?
>
>Oh, I'm playing 2i if that matters.
>
As mouko wrote, the best thing to do if you want to learn the timing is go to
practice and watch the computer parry. I found that blocking and listening to
the rhythm didn't help me at all, because when you parry it slows everything
down so much. When I was learning how to parry supers, I would usually parry
the first hit, then try to parry as soon as I thought possible, and see what
happens. If you see your character walk forward, you parried to early, if you
saw nothing, you're too late. I've went through and parried every super
(except ibuki's ninja star thing) using this method. Also, fight akuma!!! Put
supers on infinite, and he will throw super fireballs at you all day (sometimes
he'll even telegraph the super with a teleport, which helps you). If you want
to try and parry other supers, I figured out how to "bait" most of the computer
characters into doing they're supers (ex: throw out a whole lot of standing
roundhouses to get Hugo to do his hammer mountain).
Zilla
Kakarot007
>The biggest problem i have at this moment is getting the initial
>parry off when my opponent starts a super. This is hard to gauge
>especially in the air where my opponent cancels let's say.. a
>parried dragon uppercut by me into levelII super. Argh! Do you do
>the parry movement right when you see the flash, slightly after,
>or is the timing specific to that super? Parry masters plz reply
>
I'm no parry master, but I have kinda learned the timing to this. I have found
(I'm playing on the DC, where everyone keeps saying parrying is different, I've
never played 2i in the arcade) that you have to do it *BEFORE* the super even
comes out. Usually, when I'm trying to practice parrying supers, the computer
will always do something to alert me a super is coming (Dudley will always try
to do the super on wake-up's, Ibuki will try to a super#3 after a blocked low
roundhouse, etc.), and I have pretty good success this way. Some things are
super dependant though. Some supers are faster and some are slower. I know
when I jump in on akuma, he tries to super cancel a DP into a messatsu go
shoryu, I usually don't have to be too fast on that (as in you can see it, and
have time to think). It just depends on the nature of the super, and how fast
it projects the character forward, or how close you are to them.
Zilla
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
>In article <35766730...@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com>,
> tortoise <mgreerN...@artic.edu.invalid> wrote:
>> there. I'd kill for a good opponent right about now. What little
>> competition was there is all completely gone. Dennis' needs to
>> get 3s or something. I don't care if the game isn't as good if it
>> will bring people back.
>You guys have to go to sjg, I know it's a pain, but I honestly think 3S
>is a better game than 2i, well, at least Hugo is designed the way Hugo
>is meant to be designed. However, if you guys insist on playing at "My-
>ear-drums-are-bleeding-at-Denis'" then let me know like 5 days in
>advance. I want some comp.
SF3:any impact is just scrubirific parry into whatever BS with the
addition of random ass jabs, with the occasional
"normal PAAAAAUUUUSE into super that was just plain gay and scrubby."
The only reason I like 2i better is that 3s causes alpha3 hit
detection flashbacks.
Dennis's has MvC, which sucks far less than Alpha3 or the entire Sf3
series.
--
Shaun P. McIsaac "You know how Princeton has that Center for Advanced
(773) 834 - 6508 Studies? I want a Center for Basic Studies; you know,
Team U of C what *is* the best way to tie a shoelace?" - M.A.H.
Brian Yip
coolest thing about Urien, esp. the CPU Urien is when he does that super and you
parry it, he'll usually throw a regular fireball and you have to end up parrying
that as well. I just do it steadily so that the sounds of the parrying don't
overlap. Depends on the move too I guess... but in many cases like super
fireballs like Ryu, Akuma, Urien, etc. I usually do it very steadily so that the
sounds don't overlap. Parrying Sean's tornado kick, and air-parrying Ken and
Akuma's fierce all-you-can work the same way too, very steady. I'm not sure
about other moves though... but things like the bonus stage, you have to parry
the balls quick (where one sound actually overlaps another) for some reason. But
I think in most, if not all, cases, multi-hit moves are each parried so that the
sounds don't overlap and just follow through fluidly. Probably the more
difficult moves to parry completely would be Dudley's machine gun blow since the
last hit comes a bit late, so you have to delay the last one, but the initial
hits are all parried in the same steady fashion.
tortoise wrote:
> I'm still having trouble with parrying a multi-hit attack that is
> all one object. Like Urien's super where he shoots the large oval
> projectile that shrinks in size as it travels.
>
> The problem is I have no visual indication of when the hits are
> coming, so parrying at the right time is more a guess than
> anything. So I've been trying to listen to the rate of the hits
> when I block the attack and duplicate that rhythm for the
> parries, but the game pauses a split second after every parry you
> do which is throwing me off.
>
> Is the only answer to memorize the parry patterns for every move
> or is there some sort of general rule that can be applied to
> everything?
>
> Oh, I'm playing 2i if that matters.
>
tortoise
kakar...@aol.com (Kakarot007) wrote:
>As mouko wrote, the best thing to do if you want to learn the
timing is go to
>practice and watch the computer parry.
wow! that really helped too! thanks Mouko. Now I know just how
slow parrying has to be. It's a lot slower than I was estimating.
It also looks like supers die out in less hits if you parry them.
> I've went through and parried every super
>(except ibuki's ninja star thing) using this method. Also,
fight akuma!!! Put
>supers on infinite
ah ok, infinite supers and then 'bait' the cpu. I was trying to
figure out how to get the computer to throw supers at me. I'm
disappointed in the AI in the home version. On level 8 it's still
pretty easy. I want the computer to attack me relentlessly.
But how can I fight akuma on purpose? Is there a seperate mode
for fighting shin akuma Ihave to unlock? I havent been paying
attention to the home version much.
---
tortoise
spmc...@midway.uchicago.edu (Shaun Patrick Mcisaac) wrote:
>SF3:any impact is just scrubirific parry into whatever BS with
the
>addition of random ass jabs, with the occasional
>"normal PAAAAAUUUUSE into super that was just plain gay and
scrubby."
>The only reason I like 2i better is that 3s causes alpha3 hit
>detection flashbacks.
what's new?
>Dennis's has MvC, which sucks far less than Alpha3 or the entire
Sf3
>series.
But in the case of Dennis', 2i is the only SF that hasn't been
completely deserted to TTT. I'll take human opponent on below par
game over CPU opponent on better game any day.
--
--
tinder
kakar...@aol.com (Kakarot007) wrote:
>tinder wrote:
>
>
>
>>The biggest problem i have at this moment is getting the
initial
>>parry off when my opponent starts a super. This is hard to
gauge
>>especially in the air where my opponent cancels let's say.. a
>>parried dragon uppercut by me into levelII super. Argh! Do you
do
>>the parry movement right when you see the flash, slightly
after,
>>or is the timing specific to that super? Parry masters plz
reply
>>
kakar...@aol.com (Kakarot007) wrote:
>
>I'm no parry master, but I have kinda learned the timing to
>this. I have found (I'm playing on the DC, where everyone keeps
>saying parrying is different, I've never played 2i in the
>arcade) that you have to do it *BEFORE* the super even comes
>out.
Hmm.. does that work? There's major lag time between the time
the super starts (when character flashes) and when it actually
starts hitting. Are you suggesting that you should anticipate the
flash of the super and parry the flash? That would mean
parrying 1-2 seconds before any contact between activation and
the super actuallyl connecting. Wouldnt it also imply the window
for parrying being before/during the flash? That just doest sit
well with me at the moment since you parry supers like makato's
off the wall super *after* the flash. Hmm..Or maybe this
method only works for supers at point blank or used as wake ups.
> It just depends on the nature of the super, and how >fast it
>projects the character forward, or how close you are to >them.
yeah probably..
tortoise
kakar...@aol.com (Kakarot007) wrote:
>tortoise wrote:
>
>
>
>>But how can I fight akuma on purpose? Is there a seperate mode
>>for fighting shin akuma Ihave to unlock? I havent been paying
>>attention to the home version much.
>>
>
wha, no shit! Thanks for the tip, this is exactly what I was
looking for.
--
--
--
--
Matt
mgreer[at]artic.edu
Coleman Ford owes me $50
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
tinder
>
>What you say sounds very true, but I'm telling you that I always
do it before
>the super actually even comes out. I don't know if you have sat
and just
>practiced parrying supers, but I know when I tried to practice
with my friend
>for a little bit, it always seemed wierd. We would say "the
supers
>coming......NOW!!", but it was always impossible to parry the
first hit. If
>you notice, a lot of people complain about parrying the first
hit, and that is
>what always gives them trouble. The idea that you have to parry
*before*
>anything comes out just seems goofy. I know that it works on
the computer
>Dudley, and Ibuki (among others, those are just the most
prevelant in my mind).
> I made a little tape for my friend, and in it I put some super
parrying on it.
> I figured out that everytime I did a low roundhouse (I'm Ryu)
on Ibuki, she
>would immediately try to do her #3 super. So, I was happy about
that, I
>finally figured out how to get her to, but the problem was I
could never parry
>that first hit. Then, I just started parrying right after the
low roundhouse
>hit, and I noticed that that had started working. If you have a
DC, try this.
>Also, Dudley always try's to knock me down, then do some
wake-up/mix-up's
>(mixing up low forwards, roundhouses, and top downs). I just
started waking up
>and taking the hit from the top down, and immediately doing the
parry motion,
>and it works ALL the time. I'm telling you, it might sound
wierd, but if you
>have a DC, just try it, you'll see.
>
>Zilla
>
Hmm.. how accurate is the DC translation from the arcade? The
only practicing i get at the moment as at the uni...
Well ok. lets assume you have to parry 1-2secs for the first hit
and. after successfully getting the first parry do you:
1. WAIT 1-2seconds for for the parry animation to come out and
resume parrying. lol
2. Or are you basically parrying 1-2 seconds ahead all the way
through.. dial a parry? lol
sounds like bad programming to me..
-tinder-
Kakarot007
>But how can I fight akuma on purpose? Is there a seperate mode
>for fighting shin akuma Ihave to unlock? I havent been paying
>attention to the home version much.
>
Just go to training mode. Akuma will go APE on you, he seems to fight like an
actual human (aside from telegraphing his supers). Almost all the characters
have some kinda way to make them do supers, you just have to keep trying stuff,
and eventually you'll notice the computer just keeps doing supers. The rest of
they're game will be whack, but they will still throw supers out.
Zilla
Kakarot007
>Hmm.. does that work? There's major lag time between the time
>the super starts (when character flashes) and when it actually
>starts hitting. Are you suggesting that you should anticipate the
>flash of the super and parry the flash? That would mean
>parrying 1-2 seconds before any contact between activation and
>the super actuallyl connecting. Wouldnt it also imply the window
>for parrying being before/during the flash? That just doest sit
>well with me at the moment since you parry supers like makato's
>off the wall super *after* the flash. Hmm..Or maybe this
>method only works for supers at point blank or used as wake ups.
What you say sounds very true, but I'm telling you that I always do it before
Kakarot007
>Well ok. lets assume you have to parry 1-2secs for the first hit
>and. after successfully getting the first parry do you:
>1. WAIT 1-2seconds for for the parry animation to come out and
>resume parrying. lol
Basically, I think part of it is the super flash screen doesn't count towards
anything, it is just like time freezing, and anything done in it doesn't
matter. If you think about, discounting the super flash screen, the supers I
have been talking about are pretty instant. Say you are not blocking and
Dudley is standing right next to you. If you see the super flash, and you
aren't blocking, it is too late to try and block (I think, I haven't checked
this, it just seems true to me), so if you can't block, you also can't parry,
thus having to parry before the flash.
>2. Or are you basically parrying 1-2 seconds ahead all the way
>through.. dial a parry? lol
>sounds like bad programming to me..
>
No, after the first hit everything returns back to normal, I think once you
discount the super screen, you'll see what I'm talking about. I guess you can
gauge it by whether or not you can do anything after seeing the super start.
If you can jump, block, anything, you probably can parry, but if you couldn't,
you had to parry before the flash.
I really have no idea about if the DC parrying is really screwed up (I mainly
learned parrying on 3rd strike, and had no problem adapting to the DC).
Zilla
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
>learned parrying on 3rd strike, and had no problem adapting to the DC).
window for parrying on the DC is shorter than the Arcade version of 2i..at
least that's what me I noticed (after playing the CPS3 and DC version back to
back)
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
whoa i'm out of it today :)