sf3... argh
Chris Finnie
I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
1.) Throw range. There's no way to beat turtlers in this game at all.
The game needed almost double the throw range, no joke.
2.) Air parries. You can jump at people and air parry anything, even a
DP. And you can air aprry a jump attack and go into your own jump attack
to hit them. People can now jump at you and besides very select supers
and maybe a couple of specials, people can guess and have a good chance
to foil whatever air defense you pick. This is STUPID.
3.) Parries. In the end I was right all a long, the motion is way too
easy. Everyone here now can parry anything, and this game is now totally
screwed because nobody has a fireball except RyuKen, and the dashes mean
little because you cannot cut them off into a throw. Dashes cannot help
you against turtles.
If I continue to play this game (50/50 chance) it will only be
characters who can 1.) Punish turtles, 2.) has an extremely reliable air
defense. I'm leaning towards Alex the most.
And finally, the rankings for this game are starting to take shape. Some
characters are stepping out form the pack (Ryu, Ibuki) while some are
looking to be weak (Oro). Elena is upper 50%, her only weakness is
against major turtles. She'd be top tier if this game had any F*CKING
throw range.
In the end, Capcom just doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
Myself and 10 other people here could have made this game better. What a
disappointment. This game is for people who think Ryu-Ryu is
exhilirating, and those who get off on sitting there like rocks and also
enjoy jumping at people.
chris
Alan Abraham
Thanks for the uhh info (sad as it might be). BTW, you forgot to mention Oro having
a fireball. My Q: You posted a few days back a lot of stuff about Elena,(priorities,
normals, etc.). For those of us who don't have AVI players, could you give a run
through her moves (I forgot to save Tom's review).
Thanks in advance...
Alan Abraham
Chris Finnie
In article <5flp2g$3...@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>, labr...@accepted.com
says...
Thanks for the post. Out of 66 new messages today, this is the only SF3
related topic. The rest are a total waste of bandwidth, talking about
putting in more racial stereotypes into games. BTW Elena makes a bunch
of monkey-noises with some of her kicks. Read what you want into that.
Elena can kick the crap out of anyone who doesn't know how to sit there
and do nothing, but still parry or DP your jaguar kick. However the good
thing about her Jkick is it's 2 hit so parrying it is tough and you can
ALWAYS combo after it if it hits.
I've posted the good and bad about sf3. It's definitely not better than
ST in overall gameplay. There are now too many situations where people
can force you to guess. This helps the crap players, so they can jump at
you and you often have no guaranteed counter. I use Alex because
everytime they jump I will do an instant rising knee slam. The only
counter to this is a really early attack, so if I just do nothing when
they jump, bam, they whiff and a free slam for me. 50/50, higher risk
for them, bigger payoff for me, and I can just block if I'm not sure
anyways. Awesome. Plus, I think Alex is by FAR the coolest looking
character in the game and has the best colours. He also says "Jesus!"
when you kill him with a normal attack. Awesome.
The reason Oro is pretty sad is because he is a charge character, but
those moves suck. His fireball has terrible release and maybe DJ
recovery, so it's really only semi useful when buffered or at real long
range if the enemy is stupid enough to just throw a FB, you parry into
FB, big deal, you can't hit him, it's too slow. He has no instant,
motion power moves to do after a parry. He also doesn't have very good
range. Oro does really well actually against non Ryu/Ken characters, but
that means little in SF3 cause all anyone uses are Ryu/Ken/Ibuki.
Dudley does OK against Ryu/Ken but gets worked by almost everyone else.
If there was a ranking chart I think Dudley would place pretty low
unless some easter egg shows up. Hios problem- no range. But no fight is
a total mismatch cause of parries. Dudley CAN jump around in SF3 and use
his good air moves and low arc to screw you up and get in a super.
I use Ibuki, and Alex. I'll try Necro some day. I'm pretty good at Ryu,
but he is boring. But here's a Ryu combo for you combo freaks:
Jumping strong, low forward, fierce fireball, cancel into true shoryuken
(3 hits), then dash towards as soon as you land then do a dragonpunch
for one extra hit. Do a jump RH against smaller characters. Some
characters you can't get the dragon to hit, so throw a fierce fireball
right as you land from the shoryuken. This combo does way too much
damage. Does even more when you do my variation, just low forward, SC
dragon, dash, DP. Jesus.
chris
Luigi Coppola
pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
>
>I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
>
>1.) Throw range. There's no way to beat turtlers in this game at all.
>The game needed almost double the throw range, no joke.
Where we play, throws are considered very cheap, and are not used very
often. For me, this sounds good; the fewer standard throws the better.
>2.) Air parries. You can jump at people and air parry anything, even a
>DP. And you can air aprry a jump attack and go into your own jump attack
>to hit them. People can now jump at you and besides very select supers
>and maybe a couple of specials, people can guess and have a good chance
>to foil whatever air defense you pick. This is STUPID.
I have'nt played it yet, but this seems in theory a good idea; do you
want DP to be unavoidable if you're in the air, as in pre ST.
>3.) Parries. In the end I was right all a long, the motion is way too
>easy. Everyone here now can parry anything, and this game is now totally
>screwed because nobody has a fireball except RyuKen, and the dashes mean
>little because you cannot cut them off into a throw. Dashes cannot help
>you against turtles.
Is your whole gripe with the game the parry system? Would it be better
to get rid of them all together?
>If I continue to play this game (50/50 chance) it will only be
>characters who can 1.) Punish turtles, 2.) has an extremely reliable air
>defense. I'm leaning towards Alex the most.
>
>And finally, the rankings for this game are starting to take shape. Some
>characters are stepping out form the pack (Ryu, Ibuki) while some are
>looking to be weak (Oro). Elena is upper 50%, her only weakness is
>against major turtles. She'd be top tier if this game had any F*CKING
>throw range.
>
>In the end, Capcom just doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
>Myself and 10 other people here could have made this game better. What a
>disappointment. This game is for people who think Ryu-Ryu is
>exhilirating, and those who get off on sitting there like rocks and also
>enjoy jumping at people.
>
>
>chris
>
I hope you do keep playing the game, in all the past SF's, all the
tricks were not found in the first week or two. I can't believe capcom
would drop the boat on this one, and if they did, it can be sorted out in
SF3 champion edition, or what ever.
Oro lower tier, eh? We'll see about that.
Luigi "BAT" Coppola.
James Margaris
pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
> >2.) Air parries. You can jump at people and air parry anything, even a
> >DP. And you can air aprry a jump attack and go into your own jump attack
> >to hit them. People can now jump at you and besides very select supers
> >and maybe a couple of specials, people can guess and have a good chance
> >to foil whatever air defense you pick. This is STUPID.
Q: Suppose your opponent is jumping at you? Dont you have the following
choices:
a) Block
b) Parry their attack
c) Jump at them
d) Try an anti-air move
e) Wait for them to hit ground and throw
It would seem to me that if an opponent is jumping at you with the
intent to parry a ground attack, you could probably jump at them and
kick them. Or jump at them, parry their attack. Or jump at them, wait a
second, then parry. Surely people can't parry a jumping short on
reaction, can they? If you mix up your timing in the air you should be
ok. If they jump with the expectation to parry, why not just let them
hit the ground without either of you throwing out any attacks and throw
hem as they land?
IMO jumping should not set you up for death. Assured anti-air attacks
have always been an annoyance. (low fierce anyone?) Many characters in
many SF games must guess which anti-air attack to use and guess the
timing for it. But, rather than being a simple guessing game, it is an
excercise in anticipation and prediction.
James Margaris
(who thinks jumping adds something to the game other than just going
over FB's)
Geoff Price
In article <5fm3qe$t1r$1...@aphex.direct.ca>, pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie)
wrote:
> In article <5flp2g$3...@mtinsc04.worldnet.att.net>, labr...@accepted.com
> says...
> >
> >Thanks for the uhh info (sad as it might be). BTW, you forgot to
> mention Oro having
> >a fireball. My Q: You posted a few days back a lot of stuff about
> Elena,(priorities,
> >normals, etc.). For those of us who don't have AVI players, could you
> give a run
> >through her moves (I forgot to save Tom's review).
> >Thanks in advance...
> >
> >Alan Abraham
>
> Thanks for the post. Out of 66 new messages today, this is the only SF3
> related topic. The rest are a total waste of bandwidth, talking about
> putting in more racial stereotypes into games.
I can't believe the volume on that.
> BTW Elena makes a bunch
> of monkey-noises with some of her kicks. Read what you want into that.
Vaguely racist, but so it goes.
> Elena can kick the crap out of anyone who doesn't know how to sit there
> and do nothing, but still parry or DP your jaguar kick. However the good
> thing about her Jkick is it's 2 hit so parrying it is tough and you can
> ALWAYS combo after it if it hits.
You're talking now like parrying is creating huge turtling problems, after
all. Isn't there some risk built-in, so that guessing wrong on a parry
can be punished? Or you're saying the guessing game is too strongly in
favor of the parrying turtler. Guessing games, IMHO, while not ideal, are
better than a sure-thing in favor of the turtler, as the SFA2 AC and c.
fierce come close to being.
> I've posted the good and bad about sf3. It's definitely not better than
> ST in overall gameplay. There are now too many situations where people
> can force you to guess. This helps the crap players, so they can jump at
> you and you often have no guaranteed counter. I use Alex because
> everytime they jump I will do an instant rising knee slam. The only
> counter to this is a really early attack, so if I just do nothing when
> they jump, bam, they whiff and a free slam for me. 50/50, higher risk
> for them, bigger payoff for me, and I can just block if I'm not sure
> anyways. Awesome. Plus, I think Alex is by FAR the coolest looking
> character in the game and has the best colours. He also says "Jesus!"
> when you kill him with a normal attack. Awesome.
Rumours are that we will be getting SF3 here in SB tomorrow or soon
after. Therefore, I'm looking for SF3 moves info (just the basics to
start with) and especially Alex info. If such has been posted here, I've
(or my news server has) missed it. (I know Tom's review, mentioned above,
never showed up here, and I can't seem to pull it up on dejanews.)
Anybody point me to where these can be found on net? I definitely expect
to be playing Alex pretty exclusively from the get-go, I expect I may have
him to myself for awhile.
[further virtuous sf3 info snipped]
--
Geoff Price
Ge...@CalibanMW.com
Terence Byron Cox
Luigi Coppola wrote:
>
> pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
> >
> >I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
> >
> >1.) Throw range. There's no way to beat turtlers in this game at all.
> >The game needed almost double the throw range, no joke.
>
> Where we play, throws are considered very cheap, and are not used very
> often. For me, this sounds good; the fewer standard throws the better.
.... I don't know, this creates quite a dilemna. I played the game for
the first time yesterday, and I got a rather distastful impression.
However, with nine other players (the other guys w/ quarters up) between
matches I can hardly say that I got a thorough testing of the game.
Anyway, I chose Sean (I didn't want to play Ken/Ryu [c'mon, why wait
through nine matches just to play the same old guys?], But I thought I'd
start slow with someone who's moves I could grasp), and I fared okay
after a few matches (thats: lose... wait... lose... wait... lose...
wait... okay). Unfortunately, it was a Ken (or actually a couple of
them) that held the machine the longest. As he dished out standard Ken
attacks we scrambled to figure out our different moves (for me it was
mostly the specials, as Sean has a pretty standard Ken/Ryu arsenal of
normal moves. Unfortunately, the machine frowned on most everyones best
efforts to parry, and unblocked fireball damage quickly became less
desirable to just blocking. That Ken had quite a few wins (in the
twenties), but his eradic playing style (he didn't turtle, thus allowing
moves like the tackle to work) eventually defeated him. It wasn't until
his buddy took over that I hit my Sean dilemna.
Y'see, this guy just sat there. What the hell is Sean supposed to do?
I tried that weird flash kick, I tried jumping on him (at varying
distances, so as to attempt to alude the uppercut), etc. I figured out
the one thing he's not supposed to do is attack in this situation. So
then what?
In fact, most the characters seem this way. They really have no way
of doing damage unless the opponent, at some point, isn't blocking.
Throws were actually one of the more efficient forms of attack (from in
close... getting close was another story). In addition, it seems like
everyone has an uppercut or other dominant anti-air, effectively killing
most traditional uses of timed/positioned normal moves in favor of a
crude, umbrella, low-risk move. Traditionally, in SF, there are a few
standard methods to do damage: projectile (either energy or self), poke
until the opponent makes a mistake (perhaps Alex w/ that standing
forward or Necro), throw (special: Alex again? [and I'm not counting
moves like Necros, because it can be blocked so I consider it more of a
poke], normal: everyone), specials that chip damage (lightning kicks,
jaguar kicks, headstomps [Ibuki?], whatever), turtle and let the
opponent try and get in (whereupon you try to hit them), and something
else I probably forgot. I don't see that here (at least not for the most
part).
Is parrying the thing that's gonna make my worries dissipate? Are
they (when used proficiently) like an autoblock that doesn't knock back
or stun?
And what's with supers? They seem like mindless ways to do damage to
me. I mean at least in Alpha (with all its faults) they had more than
just the use of some monstrously huge mindless attack for that bar.
Perhaps once I get used top the character specifics I'll be able to
unravel the finesse aspects of the game. I would hate to think that the
game would revlolve around parrying (something that requires no super
level), because it seems like its just one of those aspects (like the
Alpha) that scares many rookies (or old school players checking it out)
away because they're losing to some silly aspect that they don't know
(like when only some people knew the uppercut in the original). I think
the rambling must end now... at least until I can try the game a little
more (perhaps my use of Sean blurred my idea of the game).
Later,
Terry
END
mcsh...@aol.com
In article <5fm3qe$t1r$1...@aphex.direct.ca>,
pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
>
> I've posted the good and bad about sf3. It's definitely not better than
> ST in overall gameplay. There are now too many situations where people
> can force you to guess. This helps the crap players, so they can jump at
> you and you often have no guaranteed counter.
Not only that, but has anyone else noticed that in certain situations,
when your opponent jumps over your head, your character won't turn around
in time? This situation has happenned to me several times, and I've seen
it happen to others. My opponent screws up his neck kick, so I wait till
he lands and hit strong for a free throw. But I don't get the throw,
instead, my guy is still facing the same direction, throws out a strong
punch that hits air, while my opponent gets a free combo opportunity.
This really sucks.
Late,
Mike Kutas
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
jsar...@bayou.uh.edu
On 6 Mar 1997, Luigi Coppola wrote:
> Where we play, throws are considered very cheap, and are not used very
> often. For me, this sounds good; the fewer standard throws the better.
This is why almost everyone in Great Britain and her territories will get
scrubbed once they venture to other ports and face competent players.
Even if you know how to play against people who throw, unless you
constantly practice playing with ticks, whiff ticks, and fake ticks your
timing will be off and you'll lose. It's the irony of ironies that a throw
character, Birdie, is English. But then again, he sucks so perhaps Capcom
has a sense of humor after all.
> Oro lower tier, eh? We'll see about that.
>
Tiers in England are irrelevant. Chris would whip you with any character
in the game. Fuck the Queen's rules.
>
> Luigi "BAT" Coppola.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tom Cannon
Web-Slinger wrote:
>
> I came up against a Ken player the other day who would wait for
> you to jump at him, parry your kick/punch, and then do the
> Shin-Ryuken while you was still in the air for about 50% damage
> :-/ Cunning tactics.
Um...why the parry? There's no air-blocking in SF3, and it would
take amazing timing to parry all the hits of the shinryuken.
Try whiffing the punch/kick, then combo or throw him when you
hit the ground.
---
Tom Cannon
t...@vxtreme.com
Milo D. Cooper
> pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
> I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
Once again, Chris Finnie speaks the absolute truth. So
far, I hate this game.
> 1.) Throw range. There's no way to beat turtlers in this game at all.
> The game needed almost double the throw range, no joke.
I shake your hand.
> 2.) Air parries. You can jump at people and air parry anything, even a
> DP. And you can air aprry a jump attack and go into your own jump attack
> to hit them. People can now jump at you and besides very select supers
> and maybe a couple of specials, people can guess and have a good chance
> to foil whatever air defense you pick. This is STUPID.
>
> 3.) Parries. In the end I was right all a long, the motion is way too
> easy. Everyone here now can parry anything, and this game is now totally
> screwed because nobody has a fireball except RyuKen, and the dashes mean
> little because you cannot cut them off into a throw. Dashes cannot help
> you against turtles.
Right. What MORON at Capcom finalized the lack of dash
interrupting??
> If I continue to play this game (50/50 chance) it will only be
> characters who can 1.) Punish turtles, 2.) has an extremely reliable air
> defense. I'm leaning towards Alex the most.
UCSD-style turtle-all-day-and-all-night RyuKens rule SF3
in San Diego. It's just boring, and I simply can't take Ryu
and Ken any more.
> And finally, the rankings for this game are starting to take shape. Some
> characters are stepping out form the pack (Ryu, Ibuki) while some are
> looking to be weak (Oro). Elena is upper 50%, her only weakness is
> against major turtles. She'd be top tier if this game had any F*CKING
> throw range.
And of course, here in San Diego, turtles abound. Elena
is a horrible character, unless you want to play mega-dull
poke 'n' heal games. She is no threat to a passive opponent,
and may actually be *worse* than Adon. (At least Adon had an
overhead with decent range, and a high-priority anti-fireball
super.) Her rhino horn is dead useless. Characters like her
*need* a special grab to be any good; Capcom got it right with
Cammy, too bad they couldn't realize this for all of the gar-
bage that they expectorated after Super Turbo.
> In the end, Capcom just doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
> Myself and 10 other people here could have made this game better. What a
> disappointment. This game is for people who think Ryu-Ryu is
> exhilirating, and those who get off on sitting there like rocks and also
> enjoy jumping at people.
>
> chris
Me, I'm waiting for Darkstalkers 3. SF3, it seems, sucks.
--
/|____Milo D. Cooper____|\
\| mcoo...@san.rr.com |/
James Margaris
Terence Byron Cox wrote:
>
[clip]
Funny...Chris Finnie was saying that it is way too safe to jump in, and
you are saying that it is an unviable form of attack. He's played it
more, so I'll go with him for now.
BTW, if jumping in really is effective, why is there still a problem
with turtles?
James Margaris
Web-Slinger
I came up against a Ken player the other day who would wait for
you to jump at him, parry your kick/punch, and then do the
Shin-Ryuken while you was still in the air for about 50% damage
:-/ Cunning tactics.
--
Web-Slinger [IRC: "WebSlinga"] - N64 Gazetta Webmaster
e-mail : sli...@websling.demon.co.uk
N64 Gazetta : http://www.famicom.com/n64/
"Give 'em an inch, they take a foot, and before
you know it, you haven't got a leg to stand on."
Chris Finnie
In article <331EED93...@cornell.edu>, js...@cornell.edu says...
>> >to foil whatever air defense you pick. This is STUPID.
>
> Q: Suppose your opponent is jumping at you? Dont you have the
>following
>choices:
>
> a) Block
The counter to this is to simply use an attack, and gain the advantage.
> b) Parry their attack
They can vary the timing on the attack or jump in and throw.
> c) Jump at them
Where you then get the chance to either parry their jump attack then
attack right back, or try to kick them, risking being air parried
yourself.
> d) Try an anti-air move
If it's only one hit, it can be air parried. If it's 2 hits, depending
on the height you performed the move, it could be double air parried, it
oculd hit them with the 2nd part, or the first part could be parried and
then they land and you whiff, and you get swept of supered.
> e) Wait for them to hit ground and throw
This is viable if they whiff an early attack or try to air parry.
> It would seem to me that if an opponent is jumping at you with
>the
>intent to parry a ground attack, you could probably jump at them and
>kick them.
Yes, but the parry motion is extremely easy. People can react to these
changes and parry accordingly. These things happen with moves with no
miss animation or complex motion.
>Or jump at them, parry their attack.
Then hit them with your own jump attack. Air parries against air normals
are far more powerful then airblocks, because you can retaliate right
afterwards an hit them.
>Or jump at them, wait a
>second, then parry. Surely people can't parry a jumping short on
>reaction, can they? If you mix up your timing in the air you should be
>ok. If they jump with the expectation to parry, why not just let them
>hit the ground without either of you throwing out any attacks and throw
>hem as they land?
This is all true, but why should there be so much depth and opportunity
for both parties in a situation where some character jumps at another
one for NO REASON?! People who jump for no reason, quite simply, SUCK,
and have _no business_ doing damage of any sort. SF3 is giving such
players way too many options.
> IMO jumping should not set you up for death. Assured anti-air
>attacks
>have always been an annoyance. (low fierce anyone?) Many characters in
>many SF games must guess which anti-air attack to use and guess the
>timing for it. But, rather than being a simple guessing game, it is an
>excercise in anticipation and prediction.
I will never agree with this 100%, I have always been and will always be
against people jumping for absolutely no reason besides doing 100%
guaranteed damage or 100% guaranteed no damage-taken, nothing in
between. However I have found a way to deal with the SF3 air game, just
pretend you are playing XvSF and realize you have things a little better
off now than before.
>
> James Margaris
>
>(who thinks jumping adds something to the game other than just going
>over FB's)
I take it you don't like VF.
chris
Jermaine Q. Howard
In a previous article, pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) says:
>
>I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
>
Instead of showing all that you posted, I will just agree with you
totally!!! I loved Capcom until XMvsSf, I figured, ok this was to hold you
over till they REALLY come up with a great NEW game. Not here. I played a
Ken who won fucking 17 straight by doing nothing NEW!!! fireball,
uppercut, low kick.....it was like I was watching SF alpha again. That was
really upsetting. That game could go for a lot of improvement.
Peace
--
Life is hard, but competition is good; Without competition,
there's no Victory. For Victory to be, there must also be defeat;
To win is uplifting, to loose is perplexing, and to compete is LIFE!
by: Jermaine Q. Howard
Chris Finnie
In article <Geoff-06039...@max0-063.snlo.dialup.callamer.com>,
Ge...@CalibanMW.com says...
>You're talking now like parrying is creating huge turtling problems,
>after
>all. Isn't there some risk built-in, so that guessing wrong on a parry
>can be punished?
First of all, with the exception of over-head hitting moves, the only
parry you really need on the ground is the low one. Second, there is no
miss animation, so if you want to ever punish an overzealous parrier you
need to delay your attack by about 1/4 of a second to take advantage of
his stick not being in the block position. Or use one of the very few
'semi throws' in the game. IMO this is FAR too few options to destroy
the parry, especially how the reward for you is minimal while the enemy
can get low forward, super after a parry.
>Or you're saying the guessing game is too strongly in
>favor of the parrying turtler. Guessing games, IMHO, while not ideal,
>are
>better than a sure-thing in favor of the turtler, as the SFA2 AC and c.
>fierce come close to being.
Parries are not guessing games against moves which have slow execution,
like overhead moves and Elena's overhead Jaguar Kick. You can see this
move coming and dragonpunch it on reaction, it is way too slow. Even
when buffered in. Comboing after is small consolation. It can be done
on reaction to fireballs, just barely, at about 1/4 screen length or
so, maybe a tad more. Elena and others would have a far easier time, if
simply the throw range was much larger, allowing them to scare the hell
out of anyone sitting there waiting to parry. Doubling throw range would
have saved SF3 from becoming a turtle-fest.
chris
Chris Finnie
In article <331F5B6E...@cornell.edu>, js...@cornell.edu says...
>
>Terence Byron Cox wrote:
>>
>[clip]
>
> Funny...Chris Finnie was saying that it is way too safe to jump
>in, and
Well, much safer than it has ever been. It's about 55%-45% in favour of
the ground guy. It used to be 95%-5%.
>you are saying that it is an unviable form of attack. He's played it
>more, so I'll go with him for now.
> BTW, if jumping in really is effective, why is there still a
>problem
>with turtles?
Yeah, you can jump at turtles to have the best chance to hit them, but I
don't like using percentage games to accomplish this. I guess I'll have
to start liking them though. It's the ONLY thing you can do.
chris
Chris Finnie
In article <331F8E...@san.rr.com>, mcoo...@san.rr.com says...
> UCSD-style turtle-all-day-and-all-night RyuKens rule SF3
>in San Diego. It's just boring, and I simply can't take Ryu
>and Ken any more.
It's just sick. Right off the bat, turtling Ryu/Kens have the total
complete advantage. When we are busy trying other characters from
scratch and desperately learning to parry fireballs, they just sit there
and use the same garbage that they've been using for 5 years. I really
hope something turns up, I'm defintely not playing this thing if Ryu/Ken
remain as is in effectiveness.
> And of course, here in San Diego, turtles abound. Elena
>is a horrible character, unless you want to play mega-dull
Time has passed since that first post, Elena, is just horrible,
everything of hers comes out too slow.
>poke 'n' heal games.
Actually you might be screwing yourself right now, Milo, as her heal
super is by FAR her most useless. Against Ryu/Ken, you MUST (I cannot
stress this enough) pick Brave Dance. Take note first of all the
Ryu/Ken, while turtling, do not charge any super. Fireballs and sitting
there blocking and getting hit do squat. Then realize that when Elena
does start poking away at the bastard, she charges quickly, with normals
that are conecting, blocked/hit. Before you get your super, parry the
fireballs from Ryu/Ken, and continue the press. Use the Jaguar kick of
hers once in a blue moon because they will not ALWAYS react to it if you
have them concerned with your press. And if they block the Jkick, you
recover first, so a scratch wheel will interrupt anything, and even a
low strong or forward will stuff attacks if you don't wish to risk as
much. If the Jkick hits, the next hit will combo. And the Jkick can also
go over FB's and hit them. But to cut this all short, Elena's best
weapon in SF3 against Ryu/Ken, is simply charging her super, and
blocking a fireball. It can be up to HALF screen away (must be a fierce
FB), and can be even a low forward-FB. Just block it then instantly
Brave Dance. Trust me. If they learn to never throw a fireball. JUMP at
them. Air parry their dragon/low fierce. Brave dance. It's sad that it
has to come down to this, but since they do NOT have a super (they were
turtling), your risk is MINIMAL when you jump on them, and you inflict
40% when you guess right, and this is only if they refuse to FB. Mix
this stupid guessing game up well and they start to think Elena kicks
the crap out of Ryu/Ken for free (everyone here thinks so, fortunately).
>She is no threat to a passive opponent,
Yeah, she can't use any SF2-ish tactics against passive opponents. But
fortunately she can use SF3 tactics against them. Jumping at em, air
parrying their counter.
>and may actually be *worse* than Adon. (At least Adon had an
>overhead with decent range, and a high-priority anti-fireball
Agreed, Elena needed a range overhead, possibly a no recovery bounce
away short scratch wheel so you could walk in and throw/wheel.
>super.) Her rhino horn is dead useless. Characters like her
>*need* a special grab to be any good; Capcom got it right with
>Cammy, too bad they couldn't realize this for all of the gar-
>bage that they expectorated after Super Turbo.
Yeah... a flying grab for Elena would have done justice. But I have a
stupid feeling Capcom really doensn't want throws to be a big part of
this game.
> Me, I'm waiting for Darkstalkers 3. SF3, it seems, sucks.
Yep.
chris
JAHANGIR ALI
could s
Allen Jameson Klein
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 6-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Geoff
Pr...@CalibanMW.co
> better than a sure-thing in favor of the turtler, as the SFA2 AC and c.
> fierce come close to being.
And there is a distinction between "educated" guessing and not.
Old-fashioned ticking was always a bit of a guess. Zangief does a low
short then 1) nothing or 2) spd. You tried to DP out? Whoops, he
picked #1. This guessing, however, has a lot more to it than a coin
toss type milo cooper patented flying circus monkey technique -- such
that a skillful player will get a feel for when to attempt the reversal
escape and when not to.
al
--
allen jamie klein G0FAS1P1HS yan...@cmu.edu DN31RFRU0Y yow
This message absorbed into the 'net due to its fine osmolality.
Allen Jameson Klein
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 6-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Tom
Can...@vxtreme.com
> >
> > I came up against a Ken player the other day who would wait for
> > you to jump at him, parry your kick/punch, and then do the
> > Shin-Ryuken while you was still in the air for about 50% damage
> > :-/ Cunning tactics.
>
> take amazing timing to parry all the hits of the shinryuken.
If I read the above correctly, the ground-based ken is doing the
parrying (one hit's worth).
Allen Jameson Klein
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 5-Mar-97 sf3... argh by Chris
Fin...@ultranet.ca
> easy.
Of course, man. Tapping is something a scrub can do. No huge amount of
thought involved. Let's hope you were also right about SF3:CC, I mean
CE.
Milo D. Cooper
JAHANGIR ALI wrote:
>
> could s
Perhaps.
Emiko's Agent
Chris Finnie wrote:
> The reason Oro is pretty sad is because he is a charge character, but
> those moves suck. His fireball has terrible release and maybe DJ
> recovery, so it's really only semi useful when buffered or at real long
> range if the enemy is stupid enough to just throw a FB, you parry into
> FB, big deal, you can't hit him, it's too slow. He has no instant,
> motion power moves to do after a parry. He also doesn't have very good
> range. Oro does really well actually against non Ryu/Ken characters, but
> that means little in SF3 cause all anyone uses are Ryu/Ken/Ibuki.
Really? All I ever see are Oro/Alex/Elena players! Drove me up the
wall! Never having played, I stuck in quarter and picked Ibuki just to
see someone new! People who picked Ryu/Ken got their butts whipped.
>
> Dudley does OK against Ryu/Ken but gets worked by almost everyone else.
> If there was a ranking chart I think Dudley would place pretty low
> unless some easter egg shows up. Hios problem- no range. But no fight is
> a total mismatch cause of parries. Dudley CAN jump around in SF3 and use
> his good air moves and low arc to screw you up and get in a super.
>
> I use Ibuki, and Alex. I'll try Necro some day.
Ibuki is cute ^^;;;
--
Emiko's Agent
-------------------------------------------------------------
EMIKO'S GENESIS: http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~ikim
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cool girls of anime:
Belldandy - better than all the rest, especially Ayanami Rei!
Emiko - ACD officer of Genesis; one spunky pink haired girl!
Others: Ibuki, Chun-li, Cammy, and Sakura! (Street Fighter)
Yuri (Galaxy Fraulien Yuna)! Nuku-Nuku (APCCG Nuku Nuku)!
Lita/Makoto (Sailor Moon)! Mai (Emiko's sidekick, Genesis)!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Finnie
In article <0n7yZS600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
says...
>
>Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 6-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Geoff
>Pr...@CalibanMW.co
>> Guessing games, IMHO, while not ideal, are
>> better than a sure-thing in favor of the turtler, as the SFA2 AC and
c.
>> fierce come close to being.
>
>And there is a distinction between "educated" guessing and not.
>Old-fashioned ticking was always a bit of a guess. Zangief does a low
>short then 1) nothing or 2) spd. You tried to DP out? Whoops, he
>picked #1. This guessing, however, has a lot more to it than a coin
>toss type milo cooper patented flying circus monkey technique -- such
>that a skillful player will get a feel for when to attempt the reversal
>escape and when not to.
It is always a better idea to go ahead with a SPD tick because with
Zangief you have so many different blockstuns to use. Low jab, stand
short, low forward, low roundhouse, jump short, splash into random jabs,
short, etc. Since the Zangief expert knows all the blockstun of hits
attacks, if the's a real expert he will time his SPD tick almost
perfectly, making the defender not only need a reversal or pretty close
to it, he also needs to know the block stun of the tick. If he just
rapidly pounds away on a DP motion in between jabs, he'll never get out.
And also, low short, SPD, is just as hard to DP out of as Vega's
standing short, throw, Ryu's low short, throw, or anyone else's well
timed tick. It's amazing how many people still don't realize this.
chris
Chris Finnie
In article <cn81bO600...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
says...
>
>Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 6-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Tom
>Can...@vxtreme.com
>> Web-Slinger wrote:
>> >
>> > I came up against a Ken player the other day who would wait for
>> > you to jump at him, parry your kick/punch, and then do the
>> > Shin-Ryuken while you was still in the air for about 50% damage
>> > :-/ Cunning tactics.
>>
>> Um...why the parry? There's no air-blocking in SF3, and it would
>> take amazing timing to parry all the hits of the shinryuken.
>
>If I read the above correctly, the ground-based ken is doing the
But Tom's right though, only a complete fool will actualy RELY on
parrying jumpers. Just shinryuken the bastard. Only no-lifers and Gamest
staffers are going to waste the required 2 days of practice to get down
the timing to completely air parry a shinryuken. I don't need to cause I
don't jump at people for no reason.
chris
Derek Schaffer
Chris Finnie wrote:
>
> I take back a lot about this game. It has major problems.
Hello, my name is Derek, and I have a problem. I am a Gen player. :)
I have been for quite some time now, and I'm starting to get
rather good at him. From what I've read in your post, it sounds
like Gen-style characters are absolutely going to get throttled
against the Ryu-Ken crowd. I have enough trouble with Ken in
Alpha2 (human, computer is stupid). What's your opinion, will the
Gen style of player survive, or am I going to have to hit all three
kicks and change styles again? :) Just preparing for the worst...
\\\ Derek Schaffer ///
\\ dsch...@accent.net //
\ http://www.accent.net/dschaffer/ /
Hamlet: "To what base uses we may return, Horatio! Why
may not imagination trace the noble dust of
Alexander, till 'a find it stopping a bunghole?"
Anthony Cannon
In article <5fojb4$cv$2...@aphex.direct.ca>,
Chris Finnie <pi...@ultranet.ca> wrote:
>
[ snip ]
>
>Yeah, you can jump at turtles to have the best chance to hit them, but I
>don't like using percentage games to accomplish this. I guess I'll have
>to start liking them though. It's the ONLY thing you can do.
Sunnyvale Golfland _still_ doesn't have III yet, so forgive me if
this questions sounds inane.
I've heard that c.fierce + dp juggles pretty reliably now. Can
Ryu/Ken do c.fierce + dp to a jumper as a better air defense? If
they attempt to parry, will they blow off the c.fierce and get hit
by the DP?
--
Tony Cannon
pon...@best.com
Allen Jameson Klein
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 7-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Chris
Fin...@ultranet.ca
> >Old-fashioned ticking was always a bit of a guess. Zangief does a low
> >short then 1) nothing or 2) spd. You tried to DP out? Whoops, he
> >picked #1. This guessing, however, has a lot more to it than a coin
> >toss type milo cooper patented flying circus monkey technique -- such
> >that a skillful player will get a feel for when to attempt the reversal
> >escape and when not to.
>
> It is always a better idea to go ahead with a SPD tick because with
> Zangief you have so many different blockstuns to use. Low jab, stand
> short, low forward, low roundhouse, jump short, splash into random jabs,
> short, etc. Since the Zangief expert knows all the blockstun of hits
> attacks, if the's a real expert he will time his SPD tick almost
> perfectly, making the defender not only need a reversal or pretty close
> to it, he also needs to know the block stun of the tick. If he just
> rapidly pounds away on a DP motion in between jabs, he'll never get out.
>
> And also, low short, SPD, is just as hard to DP out of as Vega's
> standing short, throw, Ryu's low short, throw, or anyone else's well
> timed tick. It's amazing how many people still don't realize this.
Sure. Point stands, though... it's a guess, right? Something involving
percentages.
On IRC, Mr. Painter gets real enthusiastic when talking about Honda vs.
Ryu matches vs. Mike Watson. Apparently its best NOT to go for ticks
'cause MW sticks out the DP every time. The latter player, however, no
doubt has a feel for when to go for such a reversal (on the surface, a
percentage thing, no?) and when to lay low. Even with a skillful
reversal out of blockstun, a lower-calibre player will make MORE bad
"guesses" in the honda-tick situation. (DPing the air, etc.)
How do you make the distinction? Mr. Cooper convincingly sold the
[lameness of] the flying circus monkey technique but I'm wondering what
the broader definition of a "guess" which is welcome into the gameplay
and a "guess" which is scrubby.
Allen Jameson Klein
> staffers are going to waste the required 2 days of practice to get down
> the timing to completely air parry a shinryuken.
James Chen!!! Where is that dude? SF3 sounds like his kind of game.
Ruiner
In article <5ft3rt$5id$5...@aphex.direct.ca>, pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie)
wrote:
> In article <En8D_NS00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
> says...
> >
> >Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 7-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Chris
> >Fin...@ultranet.ca
> >> Only no-lifers and Gamest
> >> staffers are going to waste the required 2 days of practice to get
> down
> >> the timing to completely air parry a shinryuken.
> >
> >James Chen!!! Where is that dude? SF3 sounds like his kind of game.
I talk to him all the time... he is playing SF3... he mainly plays
yun/yang and some dudley as of now... BTW whoever was that guy saying
he would be down in that SDSU tournament must have lost his mind. No one
ever even ASKED james to go down there, and in fact, that is the weekend
before finals for us, so there ain't no way he'll be there.... and that
is straight from his mouth....
>
> He wouldn't be able to do it, nor could I. You'd have to setup a
> programmed joystick to get the rapid taps done right.
I wouldn't put ANYTHING beyond james's reach when it comes to
dexterity... but alas, no one plays Ken here, so we'll never find
out... but perhaps in 2 weeks when SF3 goes on free play here, we'll try
it out just for fun...
Ruiner
>
> chris
Chris Finnie
In article <5fpro9$l...@shell2.ba.best.com>, pon...@shell2.ba.best.com
says...
You can always parry both the fierce and DP. Even depending on the
spacing, the jumper might even land as the DP whiffs. There is always a
way to parry your way out.
chris
>
>--
>Tony Cannon
>pon...@best.com
Chris Finnie
In article <En8D_NS00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
says...
>
>Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 7-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by Chris
>Fin...@ultranet.ca
>> Only no-lifers and Gamest
>> staffers are going to waste the required 2 days of practice to get
down
>> the timing to completely air parry a shinryuken.
>
>James Chen!!! Where is that dude? SF3 sounds like his kind of game.
He wouldn't be able to do it, nor could I. You'd have to setup a
programmed joystick to get the rapid taps done right.
Chris Finnie
In article <Yn8D9M_00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
says...
>On IRC, Mr. Painter gets real enthusiastic when talking about Honda vs.
>Ryu matches vs. Mike Watson. Apparently its best NOT to go for ticks
>'cause MW sticks out the DP every time. The latter player, however, no
I don't know why Bob says this. Mike Watson has no amazing ability to do
anything better than anyone else. He's a good player. But Bob obviously
wasn't doing as much mixing up as Zangief can do. Sorry bob but this is
the truth. Nobody can DP out of Zan ticks everytime if you mix them up
and even time them all right.
>doubt has a feel for when to go for such a reversal (on the surface, a
>percentage thing, no?) and when to lay low. Even with a skillful
>reversal out of blockstun, a lower-calibre player will make MORE bad
>"guesses" in the honda-tick situation. (DPing the air, etc.)
>How do you make the distinction? Mr. Cooper convincingly sold the
>[lameness of] the flying circus monkey technique but I'm wondering what
>the broader definition of a "guess" which is welcome into the gameplay
>and a "guess" which is scrubby.
chris
Kuroyume
pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
>In article <Yn8D9M_00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, aj...@andrew.cmu.edu
>says...
>>On IRC, Mr. Painter gets real enthusiastic when talking about Honda vs.
>>Ryu matches vs. Mike Watson. Apparently its best NOT to go for ticks
>>'cause MW sticks out the DP every time. The latter player, however, no
>I don't know why Bob says this. Mike Watson has no amazing ability to do
>anything better than anyone else. He's a good player. But Bob obviously
>wasn't doing as much mixing up as Zangief can do. Sorry bob but this is
>the truth. Nobody can DP out of Zan ticks everytime if you mix them up
>and even time them all right.
Honda, not Zangief, Chris.
--
Bob Painter
pai...@mail.sdsu.edu
Chris Finnie
In article <5ftvf7$r22$1...@hole.sdsu.edu>, pai...@mail.sdsu.edu says...
>Honda, not Zangief, Chris.
That explains it then - Honda ticks with jab or short - Mike times hs
reversal the same time, making it a bad idea to tick everytime then. If
Honda had a strong or forward to tick with, it'd be different.
chris
>
>--
>Bob Painter
>pai...@mail.sdsu.edu
>
>
>
Allen Jameson Klein
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 9-Mar-97 Re: sf3... argh by
Kuro...@mail.sdsu.edu
Neither of you answered the "guess" question, though. When is guessing
welcome in SF gameplay and when is it scrubby?
Chris Finnie
In article <ruiner-0803...@ts37-14.wla.ts.ucla.edu>,
rui...@ucla.edu says...
>> He wouldn't be able to do it, nor could I. You'd have to setup a
>> programmed joystick to get the rapid taps done right.
>
> I wouldn't put ANYTHING beyond james's reach when it comes to
>dexterity... but alas, no one plays Ken here, so we'll never find
>out... but perhaps in 2 weeks when SF3 goes on free play here, we'll
>try
>it out just for fun...
Hey, both James and I are about equal when it comes to dexterity.
Pulling stange, foreign motions for combos, and quick super motions
etc... so I think I can safely say what is possible within reason. The
speed of the hits in the middle fo the shinryuken go by too quickly for
anyone to adjust to and parry with any accuracy. It would have nothing
to do with dexterity, it would be your ability to vibrate your hand,
induce some form of seizure... shit, it can't be done with any
consistency. You can parry a few at the start, that's about it....
chris
David Wright
On 10 Mar 1997 03:56:01 GMT, pi...@ultranet.ca (Chris Finnie) wrote:
>Hey, both James and I are about equal when it comes to dexterity.
>Pulling stange, foreign motions for combos, and quick super motions
>etc... so I think I can safely say what is possible within reason. The
>speed of the hits in the middle fo the shinryuken go by too quickly for
>anyone to adjust to and parry with any accuracy. It would have nothing
>to do with dexterity, it would be your ability to vibrate your hand,
>induce some form of seizure... shit, it can't be done with any
>consistency. You can parry a few at the start, that's about it....
Yeah, just like umm...well nevermind... ^_^
David Wright
sf2f...@erols.com
http://www.erols.com/sf2freak
Richard Huie
hey i got sfa2 for the super nes and i started to use gen too!!!!! hey
ya know how to get the seven hits with his kick?? i
can get up to five but then he keeps falling!!! well gen is pretty hard
to use for first time users, i guess that is why they don't try him. as
for ken/ryu they're ok, kinda old but they have to keep ken's shin ryu
ken special!!!!!!!! now they have akuma ya can't beat the raging deamon!!!!
they have to get rid of zangief!!!!!!! he is a waste of time!!!!
bring back vega!!!!! and tell m.bison to lose some weight!!!!
hey anybody know codes for the super nes version??
email me at!!! rh...@hejira.hunter.cuny.edu !!!!!!!!
thanx alot!!!!!
JAHANGIR ALI
Could someone please tell me what exactling turtling is?
Geoff Price
In article <Pine.OSF.3.91.970310121742.9518A-100000@leofric>, JAHANGIR ALI
<ja...@coventry.ac.uk> wrote:
> Could someone please tell me what exactling turtling is?
An extremely defensive game -- getting ahead and then basically sitting in
the corner, forcing the opponent to try and come to you, reacting to his
attacks and reversing / defending against them, but never aggressively
attacking (because this opens you up to counter-attack.) The image is of
a turtle tucked into his shell.
It is often maligned because it can create boring gameplay. One player
sitting there like a rock while the other pathetically tries to attack and
gets nowhere. Timer victories instead of dramatic knockouts. On the
other hand, if the game balance is correct, an attempt to play defensively
can actually be the impetus for dynamic gameplay, as the aggressor
attempts to use creative techniques to crack the defense. Some characters
(Guile, Oro) are inherently defensive. Some people distinguish between
"defensive" or "conservative" play and turtling, which is negatively
associated with the most brain-dead boring, repetitive and easy-to-master
techniques available.
The issue reminds me of a strategy game that came out about eight years
ago (name escapes me) involving a hexagonal(?) board and marbles, where
you could push back the opponent's marbles if you lined up more on any
given angle. A great game with great potential, a deep-layered game tree
to evaluate in your head a la Chess -- but the game's ultimate weakness
seemed to be the fact that it rewarded turtling. The player to make the
first attack compromised his position slightly, so both players would end
up just sitting there.
In SFA2, turtling was a highly effective strategy for the top-tier
fireball (FB) throwing characters against any of the non-FB characters,
because they had high confidence anti-air options and could rely on the
alpha counter, a sure-damage use of super meter that could be done on
reaction to almost any attack.
In both SFA2 and SF3, turtling is not shaping up to be a problem when
employed by less skilled or uncreative players ("scrubs"), whose inexpert
turtling can be easily cracked and punished -- the real problem is expert
players who are compelled to adopt turtling because the engine inherently
rewards it, resulting in dull games.
It remains to be seen how big of a problem this really is in SF3. The
potential for serious trouble is there, because of the threat of
parry->combo/super. Why risk it if you're ahead? Additionally, the
characters do not have a huge array of special moves, and a surprisingly
large number of these are very vulnerable when blocked, making them
useless as pokes. However, parries are also useful offensively, when you
pressure the opponent, spook him into sticking out an attack, parry and
punish. I haven't seen the game long enough to know how this is going to
play out.
The basic element of the SF system intended to counter-balance turtling is
throwing. A turtler is just sitting there blocking, and waiting for an
opportunity for a low-risk reversal. But you can be thrown while
blocking. Some have argued that SF3 has a basic imbalance here -- short
throw range makes it too easy to turtle. (Too large a throw range, of
course, and you have an overly offensive system, where the aggressor is at
a tremendous advantage, and the matches will become chaotic pummel-fests.)
--
Geoff Price
Ge...@CalibanMW.com
Web-Slinger
Allen Jameson Klein wrote:
>
> Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 5-Mar-97 sf3... argh by Chris
> Fin...@ultranet.ca
> > In the end I was right all a long, the motion is way too
> > easy.
>
> Of course, man. Tapping is something a scrub can do. No huge amount of
> thought involved. Let's hope you were also right about SF3:CC, I mean
> CE.
>
The motion may be easy, but the -timing- most definitely is not, in
my humble opinion. Parry an attack, mess up the timing and get nailed
with a huge ass combo. Effective parry certainly isn't easy. Yeah,
parrying fireballs from a distance is easy, but when you get into
close knit sweeping range then it become a bit of a lottery.
The fact that you have to do the parry motion -before- an attack,
in anticipation makes it 1000 times harder than AC-ing. I certainly
haven't mastered it yet, and don't think I will for some time.
--
Web-Slinger [IRC: "WebSlinga"] - N64 Gazetta Webmaster
e-mail : sli...@websling.demon.co.uk
N64 Gazetta : http://www.famicom.com/n64/
"Give 'em an inch, they take a foot, and before
you know it, you haven't got a leg to stand on."
Terence Byron Cox
Web-Slinger wrote:
>
> Allen Jameson Klein wrote:
> >
> > Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.sf2: 5-Mar-97 sf3... argh by Chris
> > Fin...@ultranet.ca
>
> > > In the end I was right all a long, the motion is way too
> > > easy.
> >
> > Of course, man. Tapping is something a scrub can do. No huge amount of
> > thought involved. Let's hope you were also right about SF3:CC, I mean
> > CE.
> >
>
> The motion may be easy, but the -timing- most definitely is not, in
> my humble opinion. Parry an attack, mess up the timing and get nailed
> with a huge ass combo. Effective parry certainly isn't easy. Yeah,
> parrying fireballs from a distance is easy, but when you get into
> close knit sweeping range then it become a bit of a lottery.
>
> The fact that you have to do the parry motion -before- an attack,
> in anticipation makes it 1000 times harder than AC-ing. I certainly
> haven't mastered it yet, and don't think I will for some time.
>
.... this brings up an interesting point that I was thinking about. you
might notice that many characters have multi-hitting specials (Ibuki
headstomp, Ken uppercut, Necro drill, etc.). With practice, players
should be able to get the feel of the rhythm and pattern of the hits
beyond the first, and be able to parry the last hit and then hit their
opponent. It reminds me of when Champion came out and I would wake-up
uppercut any chance I got, till I finally had the timing down perfect.
At the time, this meant that characters could no longer pressure me
relentlessly when I got up (as they could in Classic). If parry works
this way, it will in time mean that experienced players will be able to
shut down (or at least make risky) the use of certain specials. So next
time Ibuki jumps on me I'm gonna try to parry that last attack, hit her
with my launcher, and juggle the hell out of her.
Later,
Terry
END
Paul Cordeiro
>The fact that you have to do the parry motion -before- an attack,
>in anticipation makes it 1000 times harder than AC-ing. I certainly
>haven't mastered it yet, and don't think I will for some time.
BTW, is the CPU capable of parrying? In SFA, the computer couldn't
AC; in SFA2, it couldn't CC.
****Madoka*Ayukawa***Setsuna*Meiou****Linna*Yamazaki***Kiyone*Makibi****
* *
* / PAUL CORDEIRO, juunanasai. \ An anime fan from Edmonton, Canada. *
* \ "Oh yeah, that's the goods!" / E-mail: shi...@icrossroads.com *
* *
****Kanuka*Clancy***Natsumi*Tsujimoto****Arisa*Mitaka***Ukyou*Kuonji****
-----------------------------
SFA2 Code v2.0: !ARK(+) Sk+ Gy>+ Cl Rs v+ t g->+ m s+ 2+ r@- n: o+
Web-Slinger
Paul Cordeiro wrote:
> BTW, is the CPU capable of parrying? In SFA, the computer couldn't
> AC; in SFA2, it couldn't CC.
>
Oh yes, for sure. Early bouts you probably won't see any CPU
parries, but through fights 4-7 you're likely to. If you play
a shotokaner and throw fireballs from long distance, the CPU
characters will parry it maybe 40% of the time. I was playing
CPU Ken today, who parried my sweep, walked up and threw me.
Annoying. :)
SW White
Geoff Price (Ge...@CalibanMW.com) wrote:
: > Could someone please tell me what exactling turtling is?
: An extremely defensive game
[snip]
: It is often maligned because it can create boring gameplay. On the
: other hand, if the game balance is correct, an attempt to play defensively
: can actually be the impetus for dynamic gameplay, as the aggressor
: attempts to use creative techniques to crack the defense.
My friend plays a decent turtle game, and matches of my Zangief
vs his Guile/Ryu tended to be huge turtle fests on his part. While it is
satisfying to get in and crack his shell by making him wiff attacks or
make mistakes, it is never as satisfying as when we both take the
initiative. When he sits there and turtles, he isn't trying, and it feels
like I am the only one making any effort. Extremely dull.
I was playing SF:EX for about the second time ever yesterday, and there
was a Ryu turtle on the machine. Aha, thinks I, these guys are easy to
kill, I'll beat him, and then mess around with the combos. He was playing
the old FB -> DP/sweep crap, and I am ashamed to say he kicked my ass. I
was hampered by a fucked up joystick and a suprising inability to judge
distances (are the characters bigger in EX? Arena felt small), but he
truly thrashed me.
I tried all the usual stuff that I use to beat turtles, and I beat him
once or twice, but in the end I gave up because it was frustrating and
dull. Not worth putting money into the machine to play an asshole like
that. Turtles suck...
Fortunately, when I came back later, he had gone, and I had a much more
enjoyable game against some other guys.
Peace.
--
Stuart White
"Now you talk about that Bohiggis boy. You know him, Billy Bohiggis?
They found him last week out behind the barn with his math teacher, his
scout leader, and the local minister. And that boy had the nerve to say
it was part of a biology project. We killed him. Had no other choice."
- The Dead Milkmen