How the F*CK!!!
LazyJae
SF3. Huh? I need to know this. Well I have to watch my Orlando Game.
Can anybody answer this question for me?
JaE:mx-SFX-http://maximum.gamespage.com
Trouble Bruin
Elder
like Capcom VS Marvel, and Marvel Super Heroes VS Street Fighter....i
believe the gripe was about the game being way to easy to pull off combos
and supers....but there may be more...someone else should post if there was
anything else wrong with them. But VS games in general, no my friend...just
the series
Elder
your statement
JB Gainz
is like the SF master over all, keeps E-mailing me because he hates chain
combos. So it kinda works the other way around. Some hate games when they are
too easy, and some hates games because they are not so easy. Either way, I
don't liked being E-mailed about overdone subjects such as chain combos.
MCTek
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) <o_ev...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:7aq7h0
>The Versus series is about offense, while the Three series is dominated by
>scrubby features set up from a defensive technique.
>
>Offense is more exciting than defense. Watch an A3 tourney and you'll know
>this. Dhalsim vs. Dhalsim is much more boring than...say...V-Akuma vs.
>Rolento.
Absolutely. Also, it is acknoledged that the versus series is supposed
to be crazy anyway, thus it does what it advertised and does it quite good.
The SF3 series had a lot of hope riding on it, and turned out to be
dominated by parry-into-combos. It was supposed to be a serious fighting
game. SF3 did not meet most people's expectations, while the versus series
did.
Actually, to clarify, the only versus game I truly enjoy is XvsSF.
MarvelvsSF was too boring (except for Dan) and MvsC is just...crap. Maybe
if people would play someone other than Strider and Megaman and Colossus...
I'm dreaming again.
-MCTek
Onaje Everett
laz...@aol.com (LazyJae) wrote:
> How the fuck could U PPL actually say Vs games are good and then ya don't like
> SF3. Huh? I need to know this.
You need to know a LOT of things. :) (Sorry, you put down your epee.)
Ummm...anyway, it's simple.
The Versus series is about offense, while the Three series is dominated by
scrubby features set up from a defensive technique.
Offense is more exciting than defense. Watch an A3 tourney and you'll know
this. Dhalsim vs. Dhalsim is much more boring than...say...V-Akuma vs.
Rolento.
Sometimes...all ya gotta do is think and evaluate.
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
LazyJae
an arcade and get on a long ass win streak it is not arrogance or nothing I am
telling the truth. As for I can go to an Arcade and play a game of SF3:2I and
it will be more competitive that a Vs Game battle. I am the type of person that
likes to lose once in awhile call me stupid or whatever but I like competition.
JaE:mx-SFX-http://maximum.gamespage.com
SefirosuLB
>like
>Can anybody answer this question for me?
Well, I don't know why people would actually say that. I always thought both
games are good, and SF3 is better than the VS. games. But this is just my
opinion. People are probably gonna flame me for saying SF3 is better than the
VS. games, gosh.
______________________
Dan GC
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
http://i.am/guardiancloud
UNDER MAJOR CONSTRUCTION!
"You're funny, but keep it up and you'll
just piss me off." - Xenogears ~ Fei
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Ultima
> How the fuck could U PPL actually say Vs games are good and then ya don't like SF3. [snip]
Who says the Vs. games (as in VS trash) are good?
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Atsuko "Nuku" Natsume
People say that the Vs. games (read: Little or no skill involved) are better than SF3 (total
defensive game, incredibly boring parry-into-combo nonsense)...
Isn't that like saying "I like eating rotten apples better than moldy oranges"? Personally I say
screw it all and we all play Puzzle Fighter. ^_^
Ultima
> Hmm... let me get this straight.
> People say that the Vs. games (read: Little or no skill involved) are better than SF3 (total defensive game, incredibly boring parry-into-combo nonsense)...
I'd love to know who these "people" are. There are many 2 or 3
individuals who keep saying "Vs. games are good" and nobody is taking
them on (with good reason).
> Isn't that like saying "I like eating rotten apples better than moldy oranges"?
Yup ^_^
> Personally I say screw it all and we all play Puzzle Fighter. ^_^
Heh. I say we all go play Guardian Heroes. It's FULL of cheese (way more
cheese than MvC), and the character balance is way off, but SIX PLAYER
MADNESS IS DA BOMB ^_^
MCTek
guardian hero STINKS!!! How about Slammaster on Callus. Better yet, Thrill
Kill. Anything but that slow ass low resolution game.
-MCTek
Ultima
>
> *thud*
> guardian hero STINKS!!!
My ASS it stinks (wait, there's something wrong with that sentence...)
GH is one of the best games I've ever played... Not as long or as many
stages as I would have liked, but it's damn cool nonetheless. There
isn't a better 32-bit Final Fight-type game...
> How about Slammaster on Callus. Better yet, Thrill Kill. Anything but that slow ass low resolution game.
You've got to be looking for King Crazy. It may be low resolution, but
slow? What the hell have you been smoking? And the game is FUN AS HELL,
especially when you go at it in a 6 player take-no-prisoners, battle
royal. Slammasters on Callus may be pretty good (if nowhere near as
chaotic), but it's a lot easier to gather one Saturn, the multi-tap and
6 joypads than gather 4 people with computers, callus, the game, and a
decent PC joypad (unless they're adept as using the keyboard, which I'm
not) and are on a local area network.
dpan...@kentlaw.edu
laz...@aol.com (LazyJae) wrote:
> How the fuck could U PPL actually say Vs games are good and then ya don't like
> Can anybody answer this question for me?
>
>
Who says this? AFAIK, people who hate VS also hate SF3, such as myself.
Skill-wise, it's garbage (don't start, there are other threads on this).
But, imo, they're not even that fun, though I think that VS is more fun than
SF3 b/c of the crazy animation.
Dale
pnt
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) wrote in message
<7aq7h0$p92$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
:In article <19990221152628...@ng31.aol.com>,
: laz...@aol.com (LazyJae) wrote:
:> How the fuck could U PPL actually say Vs games are good and then ya don't
like
:> SF3. Huh? I need to know this.
:You need to know a LOT of things. :) (Sorry, you put down your epee.)
:
:Ummm...anyway, it's simple.
:
:The Versus series is about offense, while the Three series is dominated by
:scrubby features set up from a defensive technique.
Vs series is all about turtling. Msf and MvC are turtle games.
mdr...@webtv.net
that the VS series sucks. I'm not a big fan of either SF3 series or the
VS series but I would take SF3 over the VS. Of course the Alpha series
is the best.
Ultima
[snip]
> Vs series is all about turtling. Msf and MvC are turtle games.
Since when? I thought Vs. games were all about (mindless) offense. Only
a few characters in either game turtle well (and as far as I know it's
not the upper characters, save maybe Venom and Zangief in MvC), so how
do they become turtle games?
MCTek
Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message news:36D133F5...@rit.edu...
>MCTek wrote:
>>
>> *thud*
>
>> guardian hero STINKS!!!
>
>My ASS it stinks (wait, there's something wrong with that sentence...)
>GH is one of the best games I've ever played... Not as long or as many
>stages as I would have liked, but it's damn cool nonetheless. There
>isn't a better 32-bit Final Fight-type game...
>> How about Slammaster on Callus. Better yet, Thrill Kill. Anything but
that slow ass low resolution game.
>
>You've got to be looking for King Crazy. It may be low resolution, but
>slow? What the hell have you been smoking? And the game is FUN AS HELL,
>especially when you go at it in a 6 player take-no-prisoners, battle
>royal. Slammasters on Callus may be pretty good (if nowhere near as
>chaotic), but it's a lot easier to gather one Saturn, the multi-tap and
>6 joypads than gather 4 people with computers, callus, the game, and a
>decent PC joypad (unless they're adept as using the keyboard, which I'm
>not) and are on a local area network.
huh!!!???!!! Well whatever, moral of the story, I hate GH and Ultima likes
it. The end. Actually since you have Callus play me SF Turbo sometimes.
-MCTek
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Ultima wrote in message <36D2033E...@rit.edu>...
>Since when? I thought Vs. games were all about (mindless) offense. Only
>a few characters in either game turtle well (and as far as I know it's
>not the upper characters, save maybe Venom and Zangief in MvC), so how
>do they become turtle games?
You still get no where if you turtle with either characters. The versus
games have always been about offence. Even the most defensive characters in
the (Jin, Dhalsim, War Machine - just to name a few), have to really play
offensively. Turtling a versus game doesn't get you very far, regardless of
which character you use.
Cheers,
Ka.
=== Four words why Alien civilisations will never make contact with us...
===
"Are we there yet?"
Ultima
[slash]
> It is TOO, are you saying there isn't slow down with 6 players? Huh huh huh!!!???!!!
There's a difference between "slow" and and "slow-down". There's
slowdown with 6 players and anyone fires off a big-ass beam or
rexplosion, or maybe fills up the screen with too many fireballs. but it
doesn't detract from the game. Whatever.
> Well whatever, moral of the story, I hate GH and Ultima likes
> it. The end.
Fine. :)
> Actually since you have Callus play me SF Turbo sometimes.
Er, if you wish. I recently borrowed a Sidewinder, so I can actually
play the damn thing. How do we play over the net?
MCTek
Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message news:36D32D9B...@rit.edu...
>MCTek wrote:
>
>[slash]
>
>> It is TOO, are you saying there isn't slow down with 6 players? Huh
huh huh!!!???!!!
>
>There's a difference between "slow" and and "slow-down". There's
>slowdown with 6 players and anyone fires off a big-ass beam or
>rexplosion, or maybe fills up the screen with too many fireballs. but it
>doesn't detract from the game. Whatever.
>
>> Well whatever, moral of the story, I hate GH and Ultima likes
>> it. The end.
>
>Fine. :)
>
>> Actually since you have Callus play me SF Turbo sometimes.
>
>Er, if you wish. I recently borrowed a Sidewinder, so I can actually
>play the damn thing. How do we play over the net?
-MCTek
pnt
By turtle I mean someone who uses his moves to play
keepaway or repel offenses only. Yes, you can play
them all as offensive characters, but they can turtle
very well also..
Morrigan plays keepaway with 4 air dashes (that includes
the downward shell pierce), command throw, air fbs
Captain America is all about the fierce..nothign beats
it..he can turtle all day with jumping back fierce.. if
you dash in he jumps backwards and does the following
combo, j.fierce \/ s.fierce->shield slash and you can't
do !@$# about it! jumping in, nothing stops low fierce
-> fierce shield slash.
Venom. Need I say more? (Ok, standing fierce, jumping
fierce, jab venom bite or whatever that diving bite thingy
is called. get thrown, you eat a super.)
Zangief turtles for free because he can throw you out of
blockstun. If you attack this guy be prepared to eat mad
combos :) The problem is that he doesn't get anywhere if
his opponent turtles too :)
Ryu plays a good keepout game wiht fb, dp, as always. Air,
ground throws are important. Beam comes in handy.
Captain Commando. A guy with 3 helpers in addition to his
special helper can't go wrong. :P Captain fire full screen,
Captain corridor (limited use), keepout games galore.
Megaman is god of turtlers with an average of 234958723985
fb's/mega busters fired per match and balls bouncing all over
the damn place. Full screen beam super with invulnerability
as he grows into hyper megaman, but don't do it if they're
too close or they get a free combo.
Shadow Lady. Electricity, missiles. Sorry, Zangief.
War Machine. Beams of light flying all over the damn place.
Fly all the way to the ceiling and throw bombs everywhere.
Strider CAN turtle with mad throw range and completely safe
launcher, and teleport. Don't forget the dogs. However
I think strider is better off played like a maniac
Hulk. Gamma crush! Low fierce into gamma crush! Super
armor, awww yeah. (Although in MvC somehow his super armor
seems worse? In Msf this makes him good in addition to how
great a helper he is) Jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce.
He also has Iceman's turtle rocks as a super.
Don't forget that helpers such as Lou and Colossus can help
a turtle out a whole lot. Jubilee, Anita, Michelle Hart are
also good turtle helpers. All the characters I named there
can combo off his helper too except Zangief. Pushblock
makes the turtling all the easier, as if they get in, one
block and *pop* they're out. Also, throwing is really good
so get out there and throw the !@#$ out of 'em when they
get close, then combo off your throw if possible.. make 'em
feel it.
NOW THEN..if you have any doubts as to what strategies win MvC,
then look at the characters that the pros use.
RED VENOM - can combo, and even infinite you off a throw
ZANGIEF - throw, turtle heaven.
STRIDER - block damage, good turtling
WAR MACHINE - block damage, good turtling
(strider & war machine 2 on 1's for extra block damage ^_^)
Well, what do you know? The top players either use a throw
character so you can't just pushblock him, or they just go for
block damage, in essence acknowledging that they cannot break
your defenses.
Sure, there are some offensive Chun, Wolvie, they just hope
that you can't turtle well enough to stop them. They have
nice jumpin combos, Chun even has an ambiguous double roundhouse
to wreak havoc with. And check out the side benefits: they
have some of the larger throw ranges, and what do you know:
Wolverine can throw into super.
In essence, top players either use a character as a turtle
or a character who breaks turtles. In other words,
it's not "all about turtling." After all, you wouldn't
need turtle-breakers and block damage if it wasn't.
Ultima wrote in message <36D2033E...@rit.edu>...
:pnt wrote:
:
:[snip]
:
:> Vs series is all about turtling. Msf and MvC are turtle games.
:
:Since when? I thought Vs. games were all about (mindless) offense. Only
Ultima
> Half the characters in MvC are turtle characters.
> By turtle I mean someone who uses his moves to play
> keepaway or repel offenses only.
Ah. When you say "turtle", I get images of Guile sitting like a rock
throwing Sonic Booms and Flash Kicking all day, which I guess is the
former. I count the latter as offensive turtling, which is okay IMO.
> Yes, you can play them all as offensive characters, but they can turtle very well also..
> Morrigan plays keepaway with 4 air dashes (that includes
> the downward shell pierce), command throw, air fbs
I guess so.
> Captain America is all about the fierce..nothign beats
> it..he can turtle all day with jumping back fierce.. if
> you dash in he jumps backwards and does the following
> combo, j.fierce \/ s.fierce->shield slash and you can't
> do !@$# about it! jumping in, nothing stops low fierce
> -> fierce shield slash.
Huh. The best Captain America around here is one of the most offensive
players I've ever seen. The only time he turtles is against my Zanieg
^_^ Seriously, I think Cap plays much better on offense than on defense,
but it depends on who he's up against.
> Venom. Need I say more? (Ok, standing fierce, jumping
> fierce, jab venom bite or whatever that diving bite thingy
> is called. get thrown, you eat a super.)
He's one I called, but I think it's really more of an offensive turtling
pattern than sheer turtling. He's attacking and repelling at the same
time.
> Zangief turtles for free because he can throw you out of
> blockstun. If you attack this guy be prepared to eat mad
> combos :) The problem is that he doesn't get anywhere if
> his opponent turtles too :)
I can see Z turtling and/or forcing others to turtle. That doesn't mean
the whole game is about turtling. If anything, it shows that the game
*can* have some variety, even if it's not seen too often.
> Ryu plays a good keepout game wiht fb, dp, as always. Air,
> ground throws are important. Beam comes in handy.
The same super-offensive Capt. America also plays a super-offensice Ryu.
He doesn't turtle with him at all, and he steam rolls over opponents.
> Captain Commando. A guy with 3 helpers in addition to his
> special helper can't go wrong. :P Captain fire full screen,
> Captain corridor (limited use), keepout games galore.
I'm sorry, but CapCom's keepout games don't work that well at ALL. The
only characters I see that have trouble with him are Zangief and Hulk.
Everyone else can get in somehow once they see all of his tricks. And he
can't keep out the pixies to save his life. CapCom plays much better
offensively than defensively.
> Megaman is god of turtlers with an average of 234958723985
> fb's/mega busters fired per match and balls bouncing all over
> the damn place.
Yeah. Megaman's ROckball/minim-buster trap is annoying as all hell.
> Full screen beam super with invulnerability as he grows into hyper megaman, but don't do it if they're too close or they get a free combo.
Nah. If you want free damage, you use Beat Plane. Activate Beat Plane in
mid-jump (will hit anyone who sticks out anything slower than a jab or
short), and mash all 6 buttons. If it's blocked, stay on them, then
retreat to the edge of the screen. Uncounterable damage (save maybe for
Red Venom - I still haven't gotten a chance to use him).
> Shadow Lady. Electricity, missiles. Sorry, Zangief.
I know Chunny beat's Z, but Shadow Chun Li too? She does have the same
jump in, but her supers aren't as dangerous (can't combo into them save
from jump-in). She is as hard to catch though.. -_-
> War Machine. Beams of light flying all over the damn place.
> Fly all the way to the ceiling and throw bombs everywhere.
Yeah.
> Strider CAN turtle with mad throw range and completely safe
> launcher, and teleport.
Teleport? Huh. Only good for getting out of the corner or when you have
Ouroboros activated in my experience. Any other time is combo-bait.
> Don't forget the dogs.
And the bombs. ^_^
> However I think strider is better off played like a maniac
A controlled maniac works best for me. A semi-offensive, defensive rush
pattern, and I'm good to go. :)
> Hulk. Gamma crush! Low fierce into gamma crush! Super
> armor, awww yeah. (Although in MvC somehow his super armor
> seems worse? In Msf this makes him good in addition to how
> great a helper he is) Jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce.
> He also has Iceman's turtle rocks as a super.
Hmm. I'm not sure about this one. I think Hulk is another one who plays
well offensively against some and defensively against others.
> Don't forget that helpers such as Lou and Colossus can help
> a turtle out a whole lot.
They seem to be good for rushing patterns to me, especially Lou. The
Cap/Ryu guy abuses Lou to high heaven, and will use Lou as a cover while
he attacks like a freight train.
> Jubilee, Anita, Michelle Hart are also good turtle helpers.
They all suck in general though.
> All the characters I named there can combo off his helper too except Zangief. Pushblock makes the turtling all the easier, as if they get in, one block and *pop* they're out.
If you want to do that. Sometimes you don't (like with Z :)
> Also, throwing is really good so get out there and throw the !@#$ out of 'em when they get close,
Well duh. :p
> then combo off your throw if possible.. make 'em
> feel it.
> NOW THEN..if you have any doubts as to what strategies win MvC,
> then look at the characters that the pros use.
> RED VENOM - can combo, and even infinite you off a throw
Venom-like lock-down. He has to stay within a specific range to do this
though. It's not like he can sit on his ass from the entire screen away
and hope to win.
> ZANGIEF - throw, turtle heaven.
Does he have a choice? It's not like he has really-effective rushing
patterns. BUt I make do when my opponent is turtling. :)
> STRIDER - block damage, good turtling
Good offense too. I don't think he's a turtle character any more than I
think Cap. America is a turtle character.
> WAR MACHINE - block damage, good turtling
> (strider & war machine 2 on 1's for extra block damage ^_^)
Ugh. Don't remind me... -_-
BTW, the top players don't use Chun Li? Or Wolverine? WTF..?
> Well, what do you know? The top players either use a throw
> character so you can't just pushblock him, or they just go for
> block damage, in essence acknowledging that they cannot break
> your defenses.
Or maybe that certain characters can do block damage a lot easier than
others.
> Sure, there are some offensive Chun, Wolvie, they just hope
> that you can't turtle well enough to stop them. They have
> nice jumpin combos, Chun even has an ambiguous double roundhouse
> to wreak havoc with. And check out the side benefits: they
> have some of the larger throw ranges, and what do you know:
> Wolverine can throw into super.
Yuck. :(
> In essence, top players either use a character as a turtle
> or a character who breaks turtles.
So what's in between?
> In other words, it's not "all about turtling." After all, you wouldn't need turtle-breakers and block damage if it wasn't.
To quote you, "Vs series is all about turtling", which I disagreed with.
You just contradicted yourself. Thanks man.. ;)
pnt
said was that a lot of good players use him for his block damage.
Or haven't you seen a 2 on 1 with Strider and War Machine before?
Besides, everyone's tiers look different. Quit with the tier
bullshit, it doesn't mean shit. Zangief may be top tier in Viscant's
eyes, for example but he can't do a thing to some characters.
WhoaMoses wrote in message <19990223221252...@ng-fw1.aol.com>...
:I just KNOW that "turtle" lover's gonna get flamed so bad......War Machine
a
:top-tier character??????? HAHAHAHA!
pnt
need turtle-breakers and block damage if it wasn't.
:
:To quote you, "Vs series is all about turtling", which I disagreed with.
:You just contradicted yourself. Thanks man.. ;)
OOPS..Brain fart.
It IS all about turtling. Otherwise you wouldn't need turtle-breakers
and block damage.
I type too fast sometimes...... :P
pnt
:In essence, top players either use a character as a turtle
:or a character who breaks turtles. In other words,
:it's not "all about turtling." After all, you wouldn't
:need turtle-breakers and block damage if it wasn't.
Oops. I mean it IS all about turtling.
It's NOT all about "mindless offense."
DAMN..i hate when i do that..
Ultima
> :> In other words, it's not "all about turtling." After all, you wouldn't need turtle-breakers and block damage if it wasn't.
> :To quote you, "Vs series is all about turtling", which I disagreed with. You just contradicted yourself. Thanks man.. ;)
> OOPS..Brain fart.
>
> It IS all about turtling. Otherwise you wouldn't need turtle-breakers
> and block damage.
DOh. Okay then. I thought that was a little too easy... :p
> I type too fast sometimes...... :P
I guess the kind of turtling on the Vs. games is different from the
standard turtling I keep associating the term with. Every happens so
fast that I don't normally associate it with turtling. I know there's a
LOT of pogo-turtling in the game (endless super-jumping trying to
cross-up air chain into combo), but I thought only the lower level
players did that. And it's a form of mindless offense to me... -_-
WhoaMoses
IceiKlez
Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
> pnt wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > Vs series is all about turtling. Msf and MvC are turtle games.
>
> Since when? I thought Vs. games were all about (mindless) offense. Only
> a few characters in either game turtle well (and as far as I know it's
> not the upper characters, save maybe Venom and Zangief in MvC), so how
> do they become turtle games
Finally making some sense.
Can I know?
Shady Prodigy!
WhoaMoses
>> Jubilee, Anita, Michelle Hart are also good turtle helpers.
>
>They all suck in general though..
Wrong. Michelle Hart is the anti-helper. What I mean is, use her when your
opponent uses any other helper, and their helper is knocked senseless off the
screen. It really pisses me off when I use Collosus or Psylocke or Lou and
friggin Hart blows them right off the screen, and gives me block damage to
boot!
WhoaMoses
>>
Well then, if you don't like turtles, just SLAM THEM! YEEEEAH! Why do you think
Hulk can throw from a mile away, and Zangief can combo off his MP throw? Trust
me, turtles get CRUSHED in this game if you know what you're doing (or if you
simply pick Strider or Chun-Li).
Onaje Everett
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> I just KNOW that "turtle" lover's gonna get flamed so bad......War Machine a
> top-tier character??????? HAHAHAHA!
To the average...or even the good player, War Machine doesn't look like a good
character.
The EXPERT, however, plays him so well that War Machine (along with Iron Man
in MSH) is extremely hard to get close to.
There's a lot more to War Machine than meets the eye. Just ask SpiderDan.
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
Onaje Everett
Yeah, but you'll notice why MSF and MvC are more turtlish than, say, MSH or
XSF.
You can juggle after throws in MSH and XSF. If you turtled, you paid dearly
for it. THIS is the key to making those games better again. Combos from
throws. Make it a risk to turtle.
WhoaMoses
>for it. THIS is the key to making those games better again. Combos from
>throws. Make it a risk to turtle.
Oh, would you be referring to the minimum 50%+ damage Cyclops corner throw
combo of doom? Namely, FP slam, standing RH, Mega Optic Blast, then either walk
up and slam again, or do the running bulldog F, F + FP&RH, crouching short,
standing MP pop-up, sj jab short, super optic blast in midair? Sure you can get
out of it by rolling, but you just can't beat 100% damage!
WhoaMoses
>good
>character.
>
>The EXPERT, however, plays him so well that War Machine (along with Iron Man
>in MSH) is extremely hard to get close to.
>
>There's a lot more to War Machine than meets the eye. Just ask SpiderDan.
>
I never said War Machine wasn't a good character......he's probably one of, if
not the best keep-away character in the game. I should know since I'm one of
only two people who play him in CT. But I just don't think he's top tier
material, no way. You can't run from the Oroborous, ya know? In fact the only
way I've seen that you can totally stop it is by using the Super Charging Star
with Cap, perfectly timed.
Hey, has anybody else figured out a way to TOTALLY stuff the Oroborous?
Viscant
>>good
>>character.
>>
>>The EXPERT, however, plays him so well that War Machine (along with Iron Man
>>in MSH) is extremely hard to get close to.
>>
>>There's a lot more to War Machine than meets the eye. Just ask SpiderDan.
>>
War Machine is useful for two purposes:
a) No Zangief. There is not much Zangief can do against WM besides hurl
himself at him and hope that an opening materializes through panic. Zangief
can exploit cross-under angles if WM tries to fly above him, and that's
realistically his only chance to get to work. Bad match.
b) The 2-on-1. This...is over-rated. Strider/WM is a great 2-on-1, don't get
me wrong, but in some situations, a combination of Strider/Gambit/Shadow Lady
can work better (Strider/Gambit being fairly difficult to block sometimes just
on how this game detects hits.)
>
>I never said War Machine wasn't a good character......he's probably one of,
>if
>not the best keep-away character in the game. I should know since I'm one of
>only two people who play him in CT. But I just don't think he's top tier
>material, no way. You can't run from the Oroborous, ya know? In fact the only
>way I've seen that you can totally stop it is by using the Super Charging
>Star
>with Cap, perfectly timed.
>
>Hey, has anybody else figured out a way to TOTALLY stuff the Oroborous?
Sure. If you see Strider step into a backstance, do about one half of a dash
back and Shinkuu Hadoken. Rush Drill should work as well, and I have hit
people out of the Ouroboros with a naked Fatal Claw and not been hit back.
--Viscant, The Icy Rose
"Join the Nintendo Fun Club today, Mac."
WhoaMoses
>back and Shinkuu Hadoken. Rush Drill should work as well, and I have hit
>people out of the Ouroboros with a naked Fatal Claw and not been hit back.
Hmm......
I've tried the Shinkuu Hadoken, but got caught by one of Strider's damn frosted
cheerios anyway. Then he rolled up and continued the combo. Maybe cuz I didn't
dash back?
Rush Drill I dunno, I don't play characters whose total game strategy is
composed of one button.
And as for the Fatal Claw.....it does work, but there's a downside. You have to
do it the SECOND that Strider activates the Oroborous for it to work. Most of
the time, you will still be hit by a stray ring and be sucked into the combo,
despite the damage Strider already took. But this is great way to end the round
when some @$$hole only has a sliver of energy left but thinks he can hang on by
doing as endless string of Oroborous.
Ultima
[snip]
> Hey, has anybody else figured out a way to TOTALLY stuff the Oroborous?
Strider's not invincible during the Ouroboros. Just very, very hard to
hit. You can hit him between the satellites. I once lost to a Spiderman
this way. We both had little energy, I activated Ouroboros, and
Spiderman did a j.roundhouse that hit me in-between the satellites. I
wouldn't recommend you trying to do this all the time though... -_-
The best time to stuff Ourboros is on start-up, The instant you see him
start it, activate your own super (hopefully of the beam variety). A
normal projectile will also stuff it, but this usually only happens if
you throw the projectile as or befoer Strider starts the Ouroboros up.
FInally, you can actually throw Strider out it. But this is all but
useless unless you use it to finish him off, since while you throw him
the satellites are still revolving, and they can hit you while you
recover from throwing him. Sucks huh?
The best to do thing usually is to avoid or simply block it. Two
super-jumps will make the super a waste. That's if Strider lets you
jump... -_-
Onaje Everett
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> >To the average...or even the good player, War Machine doesn't look like a
> >good
> >character.
> >
> >The EXPERT, however, plays him so well that War Machine (along with Iron Man
> >in MSH) is extremely hard to get close to.
> >
> >There's a lot more to War Machine than meets the eye. Just ask SpiderDan.
> >
>
> not the best keep-away character in the game. I should know since I'm one of
> only two people who play him in CT. But I just don't think he's top tier
> material, no way. You can't run from the Oroborous, ya know?
You can!
How? Same way you run from anybody in the Marvel series....POGO JUMP!!!
Super jump away and you take extremely little block damage.
> In fact the only
> way I've seen that you can totally stop it is by using the Super Charging Star
> with Cap, perfectly timed.
>
> Hey, has anybody else figured out a way to TOTALLY stuff the Oroborous?
Any multi-projectile/beam super can hit him out of it. Any invincible move
can hit him as well. However, that's if Hiryu doesn't see it coming. He
shouldn't be able to block while the Oroborous is on....it should be like
V-ism mode. Hmm...there's ONE change to Hiryu that's needed. :)
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
LazyJae wrote in message <19990221152628...@ng31.aol.com>...
>How the fuck could U PPL actually say Vs games are good and then ya don't like
>Can anybody answer this question for me?
Simple. Vs. Games are fun, Alpha games are pressure.
And I hate pressure games.
RICARDO
JB
the characters in this game.
wolverine, Spider-Man, Strider, Venom, Ryu.
those are the most used characters in the game. as for
turtle characters who are ya referring to?
JaE:mx-SFX-http://maximum.gamespage.com
-**** Posted from remarQ, Discussions Start Here(tm) ****-
http://www.remarq.com/ - Host to the the World's Discussions & Usenet
Viscant
>
>the characters in this game.
>
>
>
>wolverine, Spider-Man, Strider, Venom, Ryu.
>
>
>
>those are the most used characters in the game. as for
>
>turtle characters who are ya referring to?
>
Well...being a rather notorious turtle in just about anything SF, I've done my
share of turtling in this game as well. Some turtle characters would be Jin,
and Hulk. Jin MUST be played as a turtle, and it seems to be in Hulk's best
interests most of the time. Against people who like to do jump in chain
combos, you can turtle fairly successfully with Gief, Venom and Wolverine.
Just generally though, keeping with the general tone of the Marvel games, it's
usually the best idea to be moving forward.
--Viscant, The Icy Rose
"You are so outclassed."
Onaje Everett
vis...@aol.com (Viscant) wrote:
>
> >turtle characters who are ya referring to?
>
> Well...being a rather notorious turtle in just about anything SF, I've done my
> share of turtling in this game as well. Some turtle characters would be Jin,
> and Hulk. Jin MUST be played as a turtle, and it seems to be in Hulk's best
> interests most of the time.
Without a doubt, those two qualify. Hulk turtles used to give me fits back in
MSH. In MSF, I hate 'em thanks to super armor. In MvC, I haven't had much
trouble, but I haven't played many Hulks and I haven't mastered playing
against myself, yet. That's kinda hard. :)
I think I'd add Captain Commando in there, as well. Sure, you can play him
offensively, but he plays keep-away pretty well, too. Oh man! Let's not
forget Gambit. Gambit turtling is annoying. Crouch fierce...Strider-like
priority. Ugh. Safe moves galore. Ugh.
Everyone else besides Venom (and Red Venom), Zangief, and Spidey aren't that
good at turtling. I don't even think Captain America is a good turtle. The
fierce can be dealt with. It's the fierce followed by Shield Slash that made
him a threat, but that was in MSH when he had a fast release (Why did they
slow his move down?!). Still, he can't turtle that well.
> Against people who like to do jump in chain
> combos, you can turtle fairly successfully with Gief, Venom and Wolverine.
With Wolvie, it's more like offensive turtling. Sticking out a lot of moves
(most of them safe thanks to silly design on Capcom's part) and keeping them
off of you.
Why do I feel like I'm forgetting someone? Morrigan?? Nah. Hmmm....
Viscant
>my
>> share of turtling in this game as well. Some turtle characters would be
>Jin,
>> and Hulk. Jin MUST be played as a turtle, and it seems to be in Hulk's
>best
>> interests most of the time.
>
>Without a doubt, those two qualify. Hulk turtles used to give me fits back
>in
>MSH. In MSF, I hate 'em thanks to super armor. In MvC, I haven't had much
>trouble, but I haven't played many Hulks and I haven't mastered playing
>against myself, yet. That's kinda hard. :)
>
>I think I'd add Captain Commando in there, as well. Sure, you can play him
>offensively, but he plays keep-away pretty well, too. Oh man! Let's
not
>forget Gambit. Gambit turtling is annoying. Crouch
fierce...Strider-like
>priority. Ugh. Safe moves galore. Ugh.
>
Hm. The best CapCom I've seen is Alex Valle's. And from playing him at SHGL
lately, he doesn't play him anymore. It was nice, because it reminded me of a
gang jump-in. He had his men coming from all angles. It had me confused like
crazy. I had a decent CapCom awhile back, and I played him like a turtle,
using the c.fierce/c.forward then Ginsu or Cap. fire. Doesn't seem to be
working anymore. He seems to be a character better played offensively to me.
I have yet to see a truly dominating CapCom who sits back. Same thing with
Gambit. When it's really effective, sure you use the c.fierce as your
anti-air, but you keep moving forward trying to push the guy into a corner to
get those throws and ground combos.
>Everyone else besides Venom (and Red Venom), Zangief, and Spidey aren't that
>good at turtling. I don't even think Captain America is a good turtle. The
>fierce can be dealt with. It's the fierce followed by Shield Slash that made
>him a threat, but that was in MSH when he had a fast release (Why did they
>slow his move down?!). Still, he can't turtle that well.
True that. CapAm needs to be all up in your face. I've been working on
resurrecting my MvC CapAm and my main flaw is sitting back too much. Gotta
trick people into falling into that large air combo or the big double combo.
That's how I see it.
>
>> Against people who like to do jump in chain
>> combos, you can turtle fairly successfully with Gief, Venom and Wolverine.
>
>With Wolvie, it's more like offensive turtling. Sticking out a lot of moves
>(most of them safe thanks to silly design on Capcom's part) and keeping them
>off of you.
Exactly. Still, I've been playing him like I play Zangief from time to time.
Hide in my own corner, wait for people to dive in on me, MP throw the guy into
the corner, then enjoy myself.
>
>Why do I feel like I'm forgetting someone? Morrigan?? Nah. Hmmm....
Not Morrigan, that's for sure. Maybe Megaman? He's not exactly a turtler.
More of a trapper if you play him defensively, something I would NOT recommend.
Keep the rockball around for a couple of rounds of trapping, but it's not
airtight. You will have to get off your metal butt every now and then and work
on getting AC into super for MM to be really effective.
I think the bottom line, if you will, is that many MvC characters can be played
defensively, but only Jin would seem to fit the older SF definition of turtle,
and if so only barely as you still have to poke out that s.fierce on occasion.
--Viscant, The Icy Rose
"So let it be, what it'll be..."
Toe Show
(jumping roundhouse, ducking jab, etc.). What are some effective turtling
/counter stratagies for him?
Viscant wrote in message <19990301154018...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>
>Well...being a rather notorious turtle in just about anything SF, I've done
my
>share of turtling in this game as well. Some turtle characters would be
Jin,
>and Hulk. Jin MUST be played as a turtle, and it seems to be in Hulk's
best
>interests most of the time. Against people who like to do jump in chain
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Toe Show wrote in message
<828C7C3645485207.7963A56E...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>When using Jin, I always go offensive because of his priority on his
normals
>(jumping roundhouse, ducking jab, etc.). What are some effective turtling
>/counter stratagies for him?
The saotome dynamite will stop pretty much oh projectiles (multi hit blast
projectiles excluded), jump in attack (if in a corner, repeat for an easy
juggle), and most specials. Saotome typhoon is great for catching characters
who jumps and ands far away from you. Jin's standing forward and fierce
makes good anti air as well. Hope that get's you started. :')
>Viscant wrote in message <19990301154018...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>Well...being a rather notorious turtle in just about anything SF, I've
done
>>my share of turtling in this game as well. Some turtle characters would
be
>>Jin, and Hulk. Jin MUST be played as a turtle, and it seems to be in
Hulk's
>>best interests most of the time. Against people who like to do jump in
chain
>>combos, you can turtle fairly successfully with Gief, Venom and Wolverine.
Hmmm.... interesting point. But I think Ihave to disagree here. Jin is an
okay turtle but he's better played as a hit and run character (he doesn't
have the speed to be a pure offence character). As with Hulk, he's a pure
offence character. I mean, I've actually done this on a hum opponent. Short
gamma charge, fierce, fierce (keep repeating the fierce until the guy gets
hit). Before anyone says anything, I won. This might not work if you're
using Red Hulk (a.k.a. "the Thing" - jeeeezzz I've got a high school buddy
that's going to be POed with Capcom laziness :') ). The hulk is okay as a
turtle, but offence is really the way to go. So sorry, turtling with the
Hulk is really death. I'd understand if it was in MSH and you're fighting Dr
Doom, but really, you're still better off with full guns blazing. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
Onaje Everett
<828C7C3645485207.7963A56E...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, "Toe Show" <whe...@bblink.net> wrote:
> When using Jin, I always go offensive because of his priority on his normals
> (jumping roundhouse, ducking jab, etc.). What are some effective turtling
> /counter stratagies for him?
Do you mean 'how do you turtle with him' or 'how do you crack turtle shells
with him'?
I'm thinking you mean the first one...so here goes...
Think Guile with an air-blockable Flash Kick and a useless Sonic Boom and
you've got Jin. Basically, the best counter for any move is his Jin
Dynamite. If you counter a move with it, it does good damage and you can get
under them and set up something else. If it's blocked, prepare to get
comboed. Also, crouch strong has decent priority on the ground. If you have
meter and you're good at seeing your opponent move when jumping at you,
unleash a Great Typhoon on them. Does very nice damage...and you can OTG
afterward with crouch roundhouse and then use either Jin Dynamite or Blodia
Punch to add more damage. BTW, the Blodia Punch is a good ground counter, as
well. If they whiff a poke, use it.
That's about it...though I have to say....I really with the Saotome Crush was
unblockable. That move sucks bigtime.
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) wrote in message
<7bp7gq$3h6$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>That's about it...though I have to say....I really with the Saotome Crush
was
>unblockable. That move sucks bigtime.
I know, it could also do with a bit more speed. I've seen slugs make love
faster then that (I watched it on a Sir David Attenborough special so some
of you guys can get you minds outta the gutter).
Cheers,
Ka.
=== Separated at birth?... ===
Necro and Michael Jackson.
(Apologies to Necro fans) ^_-