CAPCOM HAS OBLITERATED CLASSIC RYU/KEN STRATEGY
FUSON 909
As in each new SF game it is very visible that Ryu and Ken have been
diminished in terms of dominance.I dont understand why Capcom has done this to
their main characters.With each upgrade, you see other characters get some
great new moves to make them have a greater repitoire of moves but, when it
comes to the shoto's they are weakened to such low standards its pathetic.For
example SF3,which was supposedly the crowning achievement in the fighting games
history,but look what they did to Ryu and Ken.Ken got a new kick
super(woohoo!!!)and a "fake" out kick while Ryu only got a weak thrusting kick
and the Shinryuken( was cool damagewise if you didnt combo it).Other than the
new animations in their normal moves,they played on a lower level than how they
did on the previous series Heres a list of the moves in considered the best
they had in each series;
Champion Edition
Ryu had the high priority DP and HK( what I mean is that with the DP you
couldnt be knocked out even if you did it early and his HK can be used to
counter fireballs by going right thru it at the very beggining of the
animation)he also had a faster fireball
Ken had the arcing DP,which had high priority and his DP could be comboed in
certain ways that Ryu couldnt(ie;ken could jump into Ryu with a jumping
fierce,then a standing fierce,2in1 into a jab DP,while Ryu could only do that
if the enemy was in the corner and had a wide frontal body(Zangief,T
Hawk,Guile,etc)
Hyper Fighting
Ryu and Ken gained air HK and could combo it with wierd jump in 2in1's
Super
Ryu gained red Hadoken which stunned far and knocked donw close,HK priority
weaked.
Ken gained 3 hit DP and Hk hits low at the start
Super Turbo
Ryu loses priority on DP( had to be deep).Gained a dashing fierce that had no
lag
time,an overhead with strong punch which could combo,gained a juggling air
strong and a super hadoken
Ken gained some innovative low high/high low kick techniques that confused
blockers,2in1 his air HK arsenal again,a knee bash,lost his roundhouse crossup
but could still cross up with forward,couldnt get a standing 4 hit DP punch
combo with fierce anymore and gained a super DP
Alpha
Ryu lost his dashing fierce,added lag time on his overhead,gained worthless hop
kick,lost HK priority(can go over mid level fireballs now).gained lag time
after shooting out the Shinkuhadoken.Gained a sucking in super HK
Ken gained more hits on HK,a fabulous roll which could be used in so many ways(
first time in my rankings that Ken beat Ryu in fun factor and in rankings just
because of the roll).got a dope Shinryuken,but lost almost all of his confusing
kicks(only remained in his standing and towards with forward and his standing
roundhouse).
Both gained excellent chain combos
SF3
Ryu lost alot of moves that i mentioned above,gained a useful roundhouse,wack
thrusting kick,wack priority on DP,wack HK, was just plain wack.gained
ShinShoryuken,lost his vaccum super HK,Lost low roundhouse 2in1's
Ken lost Alot of his range on his roundhouse,lost his roll, improved hits on
HK,gained a worthless kick super,also lost low roundhouse 2in1's
Damn Capcom!!! Why did you guys have to make them so weak??You could have
spruced them up a bit .......but nooo..you thought that their new animations
and some cool looking supers could do it?? This is what they really need
Ryu high priority DP and HK,his dashing fierce back,low roundhouse 2in1
back,faster release on fireballs (FB are so useless on SF3 so why not?),less
lag on overhead,some more chain combos(had a sorry standing fierce into
roundhouse chain.looked smooth but wasnt enough)better range on his footsies
and his regular moves(him and Ken seemed stubby to me).When he throws out his
Shinkuu,you can release it a a whole or do it custom style by tapping punch for
each fireball inside the super individually(could mess up enemies timing like
Charlies Sonic Break)
Ken HK that knocks down at the end.Better range on his standing roundhouse and
his footsies too.his roll should be returned,let it be just like how it was in
Alpha 1 not 2,low roundhouse 2in1's back.some better normal standing
moves.maybe he needs an upclose SPD typesuper to take out chump turtlers.Give
Ken the red stun/knockdown fireballs,would make his a little bit better on the
zoning games and less lag on fireballing after the release.Better chains.
So everybody who read this,did I make myself clear???
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
SF3:2i Ken's kick supers probably his best one... rediculous link combos
off of pretty much any standing forward or low
forward->2in1FB->supercanceled SC. Ken's close to top tier, but lacks the
_completely_ rediculous stuff that Akky, Ibuki, Yun, and Yang have.
--
Tired of Student Government Insiders?
Tired of Student Government?
Tired of Students?
Tired?
nburke
At first I took same position that Capcom has taken away too much from
Ken and Ryu but after further review I can not agree. Yes of course they
hay taken away from both but over all they still remain to be the most
balanced characters in the game. What they have lost in moves they have
gained in raw power. In sf3 & sf3 2i Ryu can fininsh a opponet in under 15
sec. with solid blows and super art, with Ken it's the same story. They
simply have power! With this fact the only true need is for the player to
refine his skills and tatics. Ryu and Ken's loss in dominace is for the good
of the game, introduces a wider range of gameplay and talent. The game
would be boring if Ken and Ryu were the only characters after a decade and
furthermore, what kind of game would it be if there was no question as to
who would win a match: Ryu vs. non-shoto player. Yes the classic strategy
is out, it needed to change and the true Ryu and Ken player is better off
for it.
--Billy Driud
FUSON 909 wrote in message
<199805280311...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> As in each new SF game it is very visible that Ryu and Ken have been
>diminished in terms of dominance.I dont understand why Capcom has done this
to
>their main characters.With each upgrade, you see other characters get some
>great new moves to make them have a greater repitoire of moves but, when it
>comes to the shoto's they are weakened to such low standards its
pathetic.For
>example SF3,which was supposedly the crowning achievement in the fighting
games
>history,but look what they did to Ryu and Ken.Ken got a new kick
>super(woohoo!!!)and a "fake" out kick while Ryu only got a weak thrusting
kick
>and the Shinryuken( was cool damagewise if you didnt combo it).Other than
the
>new animations in their normal moves,they played on a lower level than how
they
>did on the previous series Heres a list of the moves in considered the best
>they had in each series;
>Champion Edition
>Ryu had the high priority DP and HK( what I mean is that with the DP you
>couldnt be knocked out even if you did it early and his HK can be used to
>counter fireballs by going right thru it at the very beggining of the
>animation)he also had a faster fireball.......Yada yada yada.
mitchell aldinger
Let me start by saying you bring up some valid points. But, they do not
suck or are weakened because of it. Ryu has always been the middle of
the pack, till SF3 that is. Ken has alway been a dominate character, he
ranks #1 or #2 in SFA2.
I believe Capcom weakened the shoryuken to help with the scrub problems.
Weaker shoryuken= no hadoken, shoryuken patterns.
I do have some probles with Ryu, Ken might have some but I do not play
him so I cannot have a opion on him. I do not like Ryu's Shinku-hadoken
in SFA2, it is to slow. They should give him the Shinku he had in SSF2T.
He should also get his top down from that version too.
Viscant
I'm sickened by the "classic" shoto strategy. Let me see if I understood your
point, OK. What I thought you were saying was, "I want the old Ryu/Ken back.
I want to be able to beat a lot of people just because I memorized the dragon
punch move. I want to be a somebody again, instead of losing to the innovative
characters who most people agree actually aren't a cancer to SF in general."
That's just sick. Capcom did the right thing by weakening their two posterboy
characters. Notice that there still are some good shotokan players out there.
They just have to work for it. Novel concept, eh? Doesn't click with
"classic" shoto strategy at all...
--Viscant
FUSON 909
>I want to be able to beat a lot of people just because I memorized the
>punch move. I want to be a somebody again, instead of losing to the
>characters who most people agree actually aren't a cancer to SF in general."
Well my main focus was on how SCREWED up as in lack of better technique.Just
look at them, they are very powerful,yet lack in technique.Why would you keep
these 2 fighters in,when they havent been overhauled to the level of the new
fighters in SF3??
IMO the shoto's do not have have any significant move that compliments the
parrying style of SF3.They play like SF2 and that isnt enough.Also since
parrying is such a major factor in being a successful fighter,wouldnt my plea
for the high priority DP be justified?? Its not a free hit no more when an
opponent jumps into a DP anymore so why not add it in??And also concerning
"classic" shoto strategy, a great opponent can overcome any easy DP pattern,its
not that hard,unless your a jumper and complain about falling for
patterns.Thats what seperates good from great,all patterns and strategy with
shoto's can be used against them to their disadvantage.Another thing that
bugged me is that lame super jumping in SF3, it made its have such a scrubby
,almost VS game feel to it.It doesnt take a genius to super jump over a
fireball (adding to this,the shoto's painfully long lag time after the release)
and hit the opponent.I remember when it took patience and skill to get out of
cunning projectile traps, not just a little tap of the joystick .Hey if you
fall for "classic" strategy and traps from shoto players and you claim your
good, youd better start re-evaulating your status as a SF player.One thing that
Capcom could have done is kept the low roundhouse 2in1's.Removing that strategy
is sacreligious to shoto's and im sure many would agree.If I could have had it
my way, I would have just not included ANY shoto's in SF3 and just left the
Next Generation as it is, because why include players that dont have enough
techniques in their repitoire in the game? Its just a big waste of character
design to me...the least that they could have done is made the shoto's
techniques adapt to the new system instead of being left in the dust by the
rest....
Viscant
You don't think that Ryu/Ken can beat people in SF3? Of course they can. Ryu
is still one of the top fighters in the game, but I don't think many people
notice it because they have to actually learn a new strategy. Parrying isn't a
great idea by Capcom, seeing as how it can lead to those endless parryfests by
people of equal skill levels; but at least it shows that they're still trying.
And thanks to parrying, a projectile is less useful of a move than it was
before.
Regarding the old SF2 "trap," it doesn't even take a great opponent to beat the
shoto strategy, just one with enough brains to anticipate something coming.
Traps are never a good thing in a fighting game. They lessen the intelligence
needed, and let people fall into a mindless mess, and once the trap has been
broken, then what? Because some people found the trap difficult to get out of,
the then what part suffered, and with it the general quality of play.
The shotos are necesary in SF3. Ryu is not the best, no, but he still is very
useful if you become more of a parrying and combo driven player and less of a
trapper. Because with the super jump feature--great idea by the way. One of
my favorites. This, not parrying, was the straw that broke the trapper's
back!--you really aren't going to catch even the densest of people. So get
with the program. SF2 is over. It isn't coming back. Adjust your strategies,
learn the combos and you'll see that the shotos can still be effective. They
haven't been left in the dust by the rest, the rest are better this time around
and will make you think. Something you may not have done since the World
Warrior days...good luck. Hope the old noggin still works for ya.
--Viscant, The Icy Rose
"Think man! A non-thinking man is a dead one!"
--Jack
DeVille