#CAPCOM is a waste of time!
test512
Efnet server. Apparently, my understanding of the channel was to
discuss/debate various SF topics. Unfortunately, this was not the case.
It appears to run by several immature scrubs that were given unwarranted
@(op) status. If someone disagrees with them they have the privilege
to kick or ban the individual. I shall now present the nicknames of
some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
I just want emphasize the importance of *open forums*. If #capcom is
an "in-crowd" bunch of kids, then it should be a private channel by
invitation only. Otherwise I encourage more open-minded moderators who
appreciate different views and opinions. Also, giving @ op status should
be a careful decision to give to a responsible user(not your buddy).
There seems to be 5-6 ops at any given time.
The arguement I presented was that "cheap" is non-existant. This blew
their heads off. Shouting obscenities (which I never did) and "ganging-up"
on someone who disagrees with their buddy whether they think they are
correct or not. Finally, they(specifically Tragic) decided to kick and
ban me for my "rebel" ideals. For lack of better words, I find this
immature and scrubby.
Anyhow, this experience has dulled my venture to discuss SF over IRC,
and I urge people to not try to discuss SF intelligently over #capcom.
(Sigh) It looks like alt.games.sf2 is the best forum as of now...
Disgruntled,
t512
Jockin 04
like it but it is. You're probably one of them scrubs that get pissed cuz
someone throws you, you dumb whore.
Harry Williams
if there are
a bunch of people like you on #capcom. Also, if you read his post, his
argument was that
cheap is non-existent, so throws are perfectly ok to him.
Jockin 04 wrote in message
<199808192122...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
tragic
>Efnet server. Apparently, my understanding of the channel was to
>discuss/debate various SF topics. Unfortunately, this was not the case.
>It appears to run by several immature scrubs that were given unwarranted
>@(op) status.
No no no son, you have it all wrong, the scrubs are the ones that get
kick/banned.
>If someone disagrees with them they have the privilege
>to kick or ban the individual.
Sure, if someone disagrees in a completely impolite manner, totally
ruining the discussion, with no obvious point except to be a scrub,
then sure... they get kick/banned.
>I shall now present the nicknames of
>some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
I admit, I kicked you. Any awards/prized my fellow "REAL" SF'ers want
to bestow on me, feel free. I accept.
>I just want emphasize the importance of *open forums*. If #capcom is
>an "in-crowd" bunch of kids, then it should be a private channel by
>invitation only. Otherwise I encourage more open-minded moderators who
>appreciate different views and opinions. Also, giving @ op status should
>be a careful decision to give to a responsible user(not your buddy).
>There seems to be 5-6 ops at any given time.
#1: It is an open forum. As I stated earlier, if you have nothing to
do but try and ruin the discussion, then you get kick/banned.
>The arguement I presented was that "cheap" is non-existant. This blew
>their heads off. Shouting obscenities (which I never did) and "ganging-up"
>on someone who disagrees with their buddy whether they think they are
>correct or not.
First off, you asked basically: "what do people think about "cheap"
blah blah." Then you stated in your own opinon (which you tried to
pass of as SF FACT) that there was no such thing as cheap. We argued
back that "cheap" was considered anything that was unstobbaly, and
probably not meant to be in the game. IE: invisible throw,
glitchdriver, handcuffs, machine reset... blah blah. You responded
with "ohh so it's cheap because you can't do it... you are obviously a
scrub". You also said you wouldn't be at all miffed/disgusted if every
time you came up to play, one of us reset the machine with a glitch...
as SOON as the round started. Come on now little boy. Get real. Anyone
who has played SF over the years, knows there is such a thing as
cheap. Maybe you have another word for it, but we all know.
Secondly, I tried to explain that there is a difference between cheap
and cheesey. Cheap being unstoppable. Cheesy just being powerful, but
with some form of defense. Now, it's pretty obvious to me, and all the
REAL SF players in #capcom that you ran out of kiddiepr0n to dload
last night and decided you wanted to come into our channel and disturb
us. Give us a break, we put up with you for at least a half an hour.
You should be grateful. But anyway... You suck, and you got
kick/banned.
>Finally, they(specifically Tragic) decided to kick and
>ban me for my "rebel" ideals. For lack of better words, I find this
>immature and scrubby.
I kicked you so that's scrubby? Do you even know what scrubby means?
You probably bunch a beginning player into your "scrub" definition too
huh? Get over it sonny boy.
>Anyhow, this experience has dulled my venture to discuss SF over IRC,
>and I urge people to not try to discuss SF intelligently over #capcom.
Thankfully. I hope you decide never to come back... that would really
show us a thing or two!
>(Sigh) It looks like alt.games.sf2 is the best forum as of now...
Ohh yeah, you said it buster. I guess you havn't been here long enough
either huh?
>Disgruntled,
...and stupid... and kick/banned.
>t512
tragic
Mr.Intensity
Jenn Dolari
test512 wrote in message <6rfcri$721$1...@excalibur.flash.net>...
>Hi, just wanted to share my experience on the #capcom channel on IRC -
>Efnet server. Apparently, my understanding of the channel was to
>discuss/debate various SF topics. Unfortunately, this was not the case.
>
>It appears to run by several immature scrubs that were given unwarranted
>to kick or ban the individual. I shall now present the nicknames of
>some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
This is the case with MOST IRC channels. I can't speak for $capcom, which has
always been well run, but the eight times out of ten, you'll find that all the
channels are run by ops that are power mad tyrannists, bored slackers, or just
DEMAND ops to have them.
One time outta ten, it's a channel takeover frm another channel of eletist ops
wantign to simply block access to the channel.
But ONE time out of ten, you find a good channel, and I've always found
#capcom to be one (#mk is another nice one).
Jenn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHUN LI - SHEEVA - KITANA - SONYA - TANYA - MILEENA - SINDEL - CAMMY
ROSE Strength. Beauty. We have no equal in the kingdom. SAKURA
IBUKI dol...@dragondata.com ELENA
JADE http://www.dragondata.com/~dolari ATHENA
HSIEN KO Not all warriors are called "Sir!" QUEEN BEE
KING - MORRIGAN - FELICIA - LILLITH - BABY BONNIE HOOD - MAI
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Hayes
tragic wrote:
>
> >Hi, just wanted to share my experience on the #capcom channel on IRC -
> >Efnet server. Apparently, my understanding of the channel was to
> >discuss/debate various SF topics. Unfortunately, this was not the case.
>
> >It appears to run by several immature scrubs that were given unwarranted
> >@(op) status.
>
> No no no son, you have it all wrong, the scrubs are the ones that get
> kick/banned.
>
> >If someone disagrees with them they have the privilege
> >to kick or ban the individual.
>
> Sure, if someone disagrees in a completely impolite manner, totally
> ruining the discussion, with no obvious point except to be a scrub,
> then sure... they get kick/banned.
>
> >I shall now present the nicknames of
> >some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
>
JaMun
People are entitled to their own opinions and interpretations of popular game
"slang." However if you lets say went into a room filled with lets say rocket
scientists who have been building rockets for years and say "You all are idiots
now THIS is how you build a rocket" expect to be met with some scorn.
ahh well..that was a waste of 2 minutes of my lifetime.....
Shen Bai
C62
>
>>Hi, just wanted to share my experience on the #capcom channel on IRC -
>>Efnet server. Apparently, my understanding of the channel was to
>>discuss/debate various SF topics. Unfortunately, this was not the case.
>
>>It appears to run by several immature scrubs that were given unwarranted
>>@(op) status.
>
>No no no son, you have it all wrong, the scrubs are the ones that get
>kick/banned.
You know...you are absolutely right!
WHAM!
[kicks tragic in the groin]
>>If someone disagrees with them they have the privilege
>>to kick or ban the individual.
>
>Sure, if someone disagrees in a completely impolite manner, totally
>ruining the discussion, with no obvious point except to be a scrub,
>then sure... they get kick/banned.
Because someone disagrees with you, this constitutes "ruining the discussion"?
Please. Your tyrannical ideals are amusing but shallow. What I consider
impolite is when legitimate topics are brought up and some emotional idiot
responds with obscenities.
Just what #capcom needs...a egotistical, ignorant scrub with a panic button.
>>I shall now present the nicknames of
>>some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
>
>I admit, I kicked you. Any awards/prized my fellow "REAL" SF'ers want
>to bestow on me, feel free. I accept.
Rest assured, I feel no remorse or hostility toward you for your flustered
actions. I actually consider it victory for me that someone cannot conjuer up a
counter to my argument and merely becomes frustrated, emotional, and pushes the
panic/kick button. :-D
>>I just want emphasize the importance of *open forums*. If #capcom is
>>an "in-crowd" bunch of kids, then it should be a private channel by
>>invitation only. Otherwise I encourage more open-minded moderators who
>>appreciate different views and opinions. Also, giving @ op status should
>>be a careful decision to give to a responsible user(not your buddy).
>>There seems to be 5-6 ops at any given time.
>
>#1: It is an open forum. As I stated earlier, if you have nothing to
>do but try and ruin the discussion, then you get kick/banned.
Nope. #capcom is moderated and judged by the ops *opinions*
(note: Hopefully I am mistaken, and just unfortunately ran into a bad apple)
>>The arguement I presented was that "cheap" is non-existant. This blew
>>their heads off. Shouting obscenities (which I never did) and "ganging-up"
>>on someone who disagrees with their buddy whether they think they are
>>correct or not.
>
>First off, you asked basically: "what do people think about "cheap"
>blah blah." Then you stated in your own opinon (which you tried to
>pass of as SF FACT) that there was no such thing as cheap. We argued
>back that "cheap" was considered anything that was unstobbaly, and
>probably not meant to be in the game. IE: invisible throw,
>glitchdriver, handcuffs, machine reset... blah blah. You responded
>with "ohh so it's cheap because you can't do it... you are obviously a
>scrub". You also said you wouldn't be at all miffed/disgusted if every
>time you came up to play, one of us reset the machine with a glitch...
>as SOON as the round started. Come on now little boy. Get real. Anyone
>who has played SF over the years, knows there is such a thing as
>cheap. Maybe you have another word for it, but we all know.
Your believe in "cheap" is your conspicuous inexperience which sticks
out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
In regard to the "glitches" you mention, they *are* part of the game.
It is a choice whether or not you wish to play the game with these
conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates
any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
>Secondly, I tried to explain that there is a difference between cheap
>and cheesey. Cheap being unstoppable. Cheesy just being powerful, but
>with some form of defense. Now, it's pretty obvious to me, and all the
>REAL SF players in #capcom that you ran out of kiddiepr0n to dload
>last night and decided you wanted to come into our channel and disturb
>us. Give us a break, we put up with you for at least a half an hour.
>You should be grateful. But anyway... You suck, and you got
>kick/banned.
"Cheap" and "Chessy" exist only in the feeble mentalities of snivelling
amateurs like yourself. You never hear players scream "CHEAP!" when playing
in tournaments? Know why? It's called *experience*. Deal with it!
Starting to miss that panic button? :-)
test512
(awaiting *emotional* response)
Ultima
Rambling factor: Moderate
Warning: Read at your own discretion
***********************************
Yeah, I know I shouldn't get into this, but I'm bored...
C62 wrote:
[whole lotta bickering that should be taken to e-mail SLASHed]
> Your believe in "cheap" is your conspicuous inexperience which sticks
> out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
I've been playing SF regularly for over 7 years now, and I believe in
the existence of cheap. You gonna call me an adolescent too..?
> In regard to the "glitches" you mention, they *are* part of the game.
But never an intentional part. It's up to the player to decide to use
them or not.
> It is a choice whether or not you wish to play the game with these
> conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
> the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
> if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist. What we have to deal with
is the amount of imbalances in the game itself, and how easy they are to
deal with. (like Akuma's ability to not be dizzied made him banned from
all ST tourneys). And both of you need to stop generalising what *true"
SF'ers are like...
> >Secondly, I tried to explain that there is a difference between cheap
> >and cheesey. Cheap being unstoppable. Cheesy just being powerful, but
> >with some form of defense. Now, it's pretty obvious to me, and all the
> >REAL SF players in #capcom that you ran out of kiddiepr0n to dload
> >last night and decided you wanted to come into our channel and disturb
> >us. Give us a break, we put up with you for at least a half an hour.
> >You should be grateful. But anyway... You suck, and you got
> >kick/banned.
> "Cheap" and "Chessy" exist only in the feeble mentalities of snivelling
> amateurs like yourself.
Not at all. Cheesy is anything which has an unbalanced risk-reward ratio
- something which is unusually easy to use for unusually high reward.
Cheese can usually be gotten around, though it can be difficult at
times. Cheap, or true cheap, is that which you can't do a damn thing
about even if you know it's coming. True cheap exists, but not as much
as people think - most people associate "cheap" with "what I can't get
around".
> You never hear players scream "CHEAP!" when playing in tournaments? Know why? It's called *experience*. Deal with it!
Well, at tourneys everything gets thrown out the window except in gross
situations (otherwise, Akuma would never be banned from ST tourneys,
ould he?). Everything else is just cheese... =\ You can believe.. Just
don't complain... =p
> test512
> (awaiting *emotional* response)
Nothing emotional about this.
--
U
I believe in cheap, but I also deal with it - you gotta a problem with
that?
Lion
>
> Nope. #capcom is moderated and judged by the ops *opinions*
>
> (note: Hopefully I am mistaken, and just unfortunately ran into a bad apple)
Let me ask something ? How long have you been in this channel ? What ?
Just ONCE ? How the hell can you judge a channel (or ANYTHING else) with
such a tiny experience ? Are you a god or something ? If not, just shut
the hell up, you already lost any kind of argument about the topic.
--
= Lion =
"A dog is a dog, except when he is facing you in a narrow alley. Then,
he is Mr. Dog."
Funk Soul Brother
> Useless factor: HELLA high
> Rambling factor: Moderate
Heh :)
> Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
Mainy people agree on this.
> Not at all. Cheesy is anything which has an unbalanced risk-reward ratio
> - something which is unusually easy to use for unusually high reward.
This does, quite often, get skewed by each players' ability.
If I am good at throwing or special moves and you aren't,
they could easily be viewed as cheap and cheesey.
> Cheese can usually be gotten around, though it can be difficult at
> times. Cheap, or true cheap, is that which you can't do a damn thing
> about even if you know it's coming. True cheap exists, but not as much
> as people think - most people associate "cheap" with "what I can't get
> around".
Ahh.. hmm.. hoo :)
> Nothing emotional about this.
Heh, just a lota heart.
(I wouldn't bother posting this reply, but hey, it's got a
high useless factor anyhow)
FSB
Shen Bai
damit people how the hell you get to this capcom channel?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
kevin
>
>>>I shall now present the nicknames of
>>>some of these self-righteous kids: Tragic, IIIthird(?), Gunter
>>
>>I admit, I kicked you. Any awards/prized my fellow "REAL" SF'ers want
>>to bestow on me, feel free. I accept.
>
>Rest assured, I feel no remorse or hostility toward you for your flustered
>actions. I actually consider it victory for me that someone cannot conjuer up a
>counter to my argument and merely becomes frustrated, emotional, and pushes the
>panic/kick button. :-D
>
>
>>>I just want emphasize the importance of *open forums*. If #capcom is
>>>an "in-crowd" bunch of kids, then it should be a private channel by
>>>invitation only. Otherwise I encourage more open-minded moderators who
>>>appreciate different views and opinions. Also, giving @ op status should
>>>be a careful decision to give to a responsible user(not your buddy).
>>>There seems to be 5-6 ops at any given time.
>>
>>#1: It is an open forum. As I stated earlier, if you have nothing to
>>do but try and ruin the discussion, then you get kick/banned.
>
>
>(note: Hopefully I am mistaken, and just unfortunately ran into a bad apple)
>
>
>>>their heads off. Shouting obscenities (which I never did) and "ganging-up"
>>>on someone who disagrees with their buddy whether they think they are
>>>correct or not.
>>
>>First off, you asked basically: "what do people think about "cheap"
>>blah blah." Then you stated in your own opinon (which you tried to
>>pass of as SF FACT) that there was no such thing as cheap. We argued
>>back that "cheap" was considered anything that was unstobbaly, and
>>probably not meant to be in the game. IE: invisible throw,
>>glitchdriver, handcuffs, machine reset... blah blah. You responded
>>with "ohh so it's cheap because you can't do it... you are obviously a
>>scrub". You also said you wouldn't be at all miffed/disgusted if every
>>time you came up to play, one of us reset the machine with a glitch...
>>as SOON as the round started. Come on now little boy. Get real. Anyone
>>who has played SF over the years, knows there is such a thing as
>>cheap. Maybe you have another word for it, but we all know.
>
>
>out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
>
>conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
>the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
>if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates
>any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
You are defintely wrong on this point. The fact of the matter
is, there are a few glitches in the game that are NOT considered part
of the game by anyone who really knows anything about it. That's why
the glitches that effected play were taken out of tournament play.
Who is going to beat Guile when he can invisible throw? It's not like
there's a counter to it. It's an obvious fuck up in the game. In
friendly play, there was really nothing you could do about it except
rejoin, choose Dhalsim and reset the game.
Unstoppable glitches are something not meant to be in the
game. When you say nothing is cheap, for the most part, you're
right...Most people stick w/ proven, easy to use, effective
moves...throws, etc...are all part of the game and any good player
knows this and accepts this....But once you start justifying moves
like the invisible throw, you make yourself look like an idiot. And
calling people in #capcom scrubs makes you look even more so
considering the best players in the U.S. go in there. As far as
everyone in there is concerned, you were just another fool trying to
act like they knew what they were talking about and getting proven
wrong. I don't necessarily think you should've been kicked but there
are days people aren't in the greatest of moods and you just happen to
be in there one of those times..
>
>
>>Secondly, I tried to explain that there is a difference between cheap
>>and cheesey. Cheap being unstoppable. Cheesy just being powerful, but
>>with some form of defense. Now, it's pretty obvious to me, and all the
>>REAL SF players in #capcom that you ran out of kiddiepr0n to dload
>>last night and decided you wanted to come into our channel and disturb
>>us. Give us a break, we put up with you for at least a half an hour.
>>You should be grateful. But anyway... You suck, and you got
>>kick/banned.
>
>"Cheap" and "Chessy" exist only in the feeble mentalities of snivelling
>amateurs like yourself. You never hear players scream "CHEAP!" when playing
>in tournaments? Know why? It's called *experience*. Deal with it!
>
>
WhoaMoses
>
Ok, here's how you get there:
Go to www.playboy.com, apply for a 10 year membership for only $199.95......
ok ok but seriously you need to get MIRC, a program you can find on the net.
Then you need to fill out all the user crap and connect to a decent server
(depends on where you are) and then go to #capcom. Nuff' said.
glitch
You have to get an IRC (internet relay chat) program (like pIRCh98). I
don't know the URL of the site where I got it...uh, just use infoseek. Then
you login, type in at the bottom "/join #capcom" and presto, you're there.
-Nick
ina...@concentric.net
nicks on IRC: glitch, lord_kinboat, errormacro
glitch
infinites, but do any of you care? No.
I get called cheap all the time cause I do this fucking huge ass Cyclops
combo (XMvSF) that takes off 70%. I just say "Hey, don't let me get that
close". And I only do that when people piss me off (like this guy throws 30
hadokens at poor Zangief, so I bring in Cyke and completely knock the fuck
out of the guy). I usually don't do anything that someone does something to
make me mad (like throwing fireball after fireball).
As for throws...did you read my post "Throwing? Cheap?" (and all four
thousand replies) a while back. I think that they pretty much said it all.
Another thing, repeatedly tripping someone who doesn't know how to duck
block is not cheap, it is taking advantage of them.
This whole "Cheap" thing, and "What it takes to be a TRUE SFer" has been
discussed so many times, it is so stale now.
I don't really have any opinion on that guy getting banned, cause I would
have to read the ACTUAL text from that particular chat (not what someone
says happened).
And, don't get me wrong, I love SF, but...its just a game. Fist fights over
XMvSF? Good god...what have we come to...
-Nick
Jenn Dolari
>
>damit people how the hell you get to this capcom channel?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Say PLEASE. :)
Go to any IRC server (I use irc.mcs.net) and simply "/join #capcom" to enter.
Wenchi Liao
Shen Bai <sb...@sprint.ca> wrote:
>
>damit people how the hell you get to this capcom channel?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I use webtv.
WL
Ultima
Rambling factor: Average
Warning: Read at your own discretion
************************************
DreamTR wrote:
> >Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
> >not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist.
> HF? Oh my god!! That was probably the worst one..why people love this Ryu/Ken festival game is beyond me....Super Turbo on LOWEST damage has 10times more balance than hf will ever have.
I disgaree. The only characters who were noticably weaker than the
others were Bison and Vega (my favourite charcters), and even that isn't
by much. Bison can compete quite favourbly with many of the stronger
characters like Sagat, Ryu and Guile...
Ryu I can understand, but Ken? Sure, Ken had the 93 second victory and
one mistake was death, but aside that was all Ken had really going for
him. Vega, Blanka and Bison could beat him with patience, he had a
slight diadvantage to Guile and Ryu (and Sagat I think), and got smoked
by Dhalsim. The only characters who Ken outright beat were Honda, Chun
Li and Balrog (maybe Zangief... not really sure).
Unlike ST, HF has no characters like Balrog or Akuma who outright smash
every one - everybody has somebody at least one other character who's
not in the same tier who can beat them. The weaker characters just have
many more characters who can beat them.
--
U
DreamTR
Funk Soul Brother
dre...@aol.com (DreamTR) wrote:
Ryu and Ken Festival? Me thinks not. Blanka and his Magic Boots,
now that's who ruled HyperFighter!
Funk Soul Brother
> You are defintely wrong on this point. The fact of the matter
> is, there are a few glitches in the game that are NOT considered part
> of the game by anyone who really knows anything about it. That's why
> the glitches that effected play were taken out of tournament play.
> Who is going to beat Guile when he can invisible throw? It's not like
> there's a counter to it. It's an obvious fuck up in the game. In
> friendly play, there was really nothing you could do about it except
> rejoin, choose Dhalsim and reset the game.
Actually I found that in comparison to a normal quick move
(like short), Guile's Magic Throw is slow to execute; thus
an aggressive, ticking Ken can quite often keep is own, and,
infact win. Either that or all my Magic Throwing opponents
were shit :)
FSB
tru...@hotmail.com
ult...@concentric.net wrote:
> Useless factor: Average
> Rambling factor: Average
>
> Warning: Read at your own discretion
> ************************************
>
>
> > >Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
> > >not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist.
>
> > HF? Oh my god!! That was probably the worst one..why people love this Ryu/Ken festival game is beyond me....Super Turbo on LOWEST damage has 10times more balance than hf will ever have.
>
> others were Bison and Vega (my favourite charcters), and even that isn't
> by much. Bison can compete quite favourbly with many of the stronger
> characters like Sagat, Ryu and Guile...
>
> Ryu I can understand, but Ken? Sure, Ken had the 93 second victory and
> one mistake was death, but aside that was all Ken had really going for
> him. Vega, Blanka and Bison could beat him with patience, he had a
> slight diadvantage to Guile and Ryu (and Sagat I think), and got smoked
> by Dhalsim. The only characters who Ken outright beat were Honda, Chun
> Li and Balrog (maybe Zangief... not really sure).
I hope I don't upset anyone. But...How the hell does Ken outright beat
Balrog. It's the other way around, bro. Balrog's TAP dodged all attacks up
until you charged to 3. So one fireball unless done from completely across
the screen equalled= free twist punch comboed into a jab straight dash =
dizzy; Re-dizzy twice & dead. Or if Balrog every guesses a jump in over a
fb... Jp.frc-short dash upper= 2hit dizzy; Redizzy, repeat=dead. & he can
jump eight times & get dped 8 times & if he lands one hit it's over. Not to
mention st.fierce trades w/ everything in Balrog's favor & it reaches halfway
across the screen. Balrog has flawless air defense st.strong, c.frc, dash
upper, TAP all come to mind. & all of his moves recover virtually instantly.
Ken can't anticipate a Balrog speecial move & jump in & combo. Balrog never
needs to jump. His TAP dodges jump ins, sweeps, fbs....& he really only
needs to land one hit with the TAP & it's over as long as ken is on the
ground. For example. Balrog walks up to Ken right at the start while
holding down the kick buttons; if Ken fbs or sweeps or jumps back with an
attack he's hit & then comboed if he threw a fb or sweep which leads to a
daze & a redaze & death.
God, I could go on forever. I played the best shotos at the time, Mike
Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tounament players
playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.
Otherwise we're in agreement:)
Apoc.
>
> Unlike ST, HF has no characters like Balrog or Akuma who outright smash
> every one - everybody has somebody at least one other character who's
> not in the same tier who can beat them. The weaker characters just have
> many more characters who can beat them.
>
> --
> U
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Lion
>
> > >Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
> > >not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist.
> >
> > HF? Oh my god!! That was probably the worst one..why people love this Ryu/Ken
> > festival game is beyond me....Super Turbo on LOWEST damage has 10times more
> > balance than hf will ever have.
>
> now that's who ruled HyperFighter!
Blanka is middle tier in HF. He's beaten by top tier characters
C62
>>It is a choice whether or not you wish to play the game with these
>>conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
>>the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
>>if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates
>>any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
> You are defintely wrong on this point. The fact of the matter
>is, there are a few glitches in the game that are NOT considered part
>of the game by anyone who really knows anything about it. That's why
>the glitches that effected play were taken out of tournament play.
Yet it fact that there are some players who relish the idea of glitches
and use them because they ARE part of the game. Tournaments are only a
collective collaboration of rules that all the players agree on.
>Who is going to beat Guile when he can invisible throw? It's not like
>there's a counter to it. It's an obvious fuck up in the game. In
>friendly play, there was really nothing you could do about it except
>rejoin, choose Dhalsim and reset the game.
Stay close to your opponent and be agressive. The magic throw has a
considerable lag and the practicioneer must be wary to execute the
move successfully or he only spits out a standing strong and wide open.
> Unstoppable glitches are something not meant to be in the
>game. When you say nothing is cheap, for the most part, you're
>right...Most people stick w/ proven, easy to use, effective
>moves...throws, etc...are all part of the game and any good player
>knows this and accepts this....But once you start justifying moves
>like the invisible throw, you make yourself look like an idiot.
I'm not justifying or encouraging the usage of "glitches" but declaring
the realization that they ARE part of the game and there will be players
that use them.
>And calling people in #capcom scrubs makes you look even more so
>considering the best players in the U.S. go in there.
This is truely arbitary. You cannot assume the "best" players chat
on some little IRC channel. The world is bigger than you think.
Besides, I would think if the "best" did chat there there, then its
members would be more open-minded and considerate to all opinions.
>As far as everyone in there is concerned, you were just another fool
>trying to act like they knew what they were talking about and getting
>proven wrong. I don't necessarily think you should've been kicked but
>there are days people aren't in the greatest of moods and you just happen
>to be in there one of those times..
You just punctuated my point. I don't have time to deal with "moody" people.
As far as proving me wrong...think again.
C62
Ultima
Rambling factor: Average
Warning: read at your own discretion
************************************
tru...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <35DD30...@concentric.net>,
[SLASH - I said that Ken had an advantage over Balrog in HF, and this
was APOC's response]
> I hope I don't upset anyone. But...How the hell does Ken outright beat
> Balrog. It's the other way around, bro.
Hmmm.. It's been a while... I seem to remember it being an uphill battle
for Balrog, for some reason.. Or am I confusing that with GUile...
PLus, I have to admit: Most of my Balrog playing was done on the SNES,
which does make a difference in certain match-ups.
> Balrog's TAP dodged all attacks up until you charged to 3. So one fireball unless done from completely across the screen equalled= free twist punch comboed into a jab straight dash = dizzy; Re-dizzy twice & dead.
What was Balrog's redizzy?
> Or if Balrog every guesses a jump in over a fb... Jp.frc-short dash upper= 2hit dizzy; Redizzy, repeat=dead. & he can jump eight times & get dped 8 times & if he lands one hit it's over. Not to mention st.fierce trades w/ everything in Balrog's favor & it reaches halfway
> across the screen.
Heh. NOT Bison's s.roundhouse (as the CPU has show me TIME and time
again), but that's not the point ;)
> Balrog has flawless air defense st.strong, c.frc, dash upper, TAP all come to mind. & all of his moves recover virtually instantly. Ken can't anticipate a Balrog speecial move & jump in & combo. Balrog never needs to jump. His TAP dodges jump ins, sweeps, fbs....&
I seem to remember being able to sweep Balrog during the TAP - not as he
turns around and invincible, but after that and before he extends his
fist. I could be wrong though.. I might be getting mixed up with the
stuff SNES CPU used to do to me all the time (plus, there were almost no
redizzies on the SNES version).
> he really only needs to land one hit with the TAP & it's over as long as ken is on the ground. For example. Balrog walks up to Ken right at the start while holding down the kick buttons; if Ken fbs or sweeps or jumps back with an attack he's hit & then comboed if he threw a fb or sweep which leads to a daze & a redaze & death.
What if Ken does a HK? :p
Plus, Balrog can only go through a FB with a TAp while he turns around.
If Ken and Balrog are on opposite ends of the screen (for whatever
reason), and Ken throws a Fb from all the way across the screen, by the
time it got close enough for Balrog to TAP through it, Ken would have
recovered, and it's fierce DP city.
> God, I could go on forever. I played the best shotos at the time, Mike
> Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tounament players playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.
Ryu..? I would think that Ryu's recovery made him much more difficult to
deal with. Even if you anticipted a FB, Ryu's short recovery and
Balrog's short jump meant you had to be very close in the first place in
order to jump and actually land a combo. Otherwise, Ryu recovered and
got DPed, Ryu got hit high and still either DPed, HK, or sac-throw. At
least that's how I remember it... *scratches head*
> Otherwise we're in agreement:)
Cool.. Does Ken beat really Zangief in HF..? :)
--
U
dpan...@kentlaw.edu
ult...@concentric.net wrote:
> Useless factor: Average
> Rambling factor: Average
>
> ************************************
>
> DreamTR wrote:
>
> > >Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
> > >not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist.
>
> > HF? Oh my god!! That was probably the worst one..why people love this
Ryu/Ken festival game is beyond me....Super Turbo on LOWEST damage has 10times
more balance than hf will ever have.
>
> others were Bison and Vega (my favourite charcters), and even that isn't
> by much. Bison can compete quite favourbly with many of the stronger
> characters like Sagat, Ryu and Guile...
Bison and Vega were by no means weak characters in HF (that is what you mean?
b/c they were even stronger in ST). Bison had the torpedo of doom, 3-5 hit
combos that dizzied easily on a jump in. Vega can pretty much throw for
free, especially on jump-ins, hk's, missed sweeps. The game play didn't have
to be as tight w/these two. Plus, they were great in the air.
> Ryu I can understand, but Ken? Sure, Ken had the 93 second victory and
> one mistake was death, but aside that was all Ken had really going for
> him. Vega, Blanka and Bison could beat him with patience, he had a
> slight diadvantage to Guile and Ryu (and Sagat I think), and got smoked
> by Dhalsim. The only characters who Ken outright beat were Honda, Chun
> Li and Balrog (maybe Zangief... not really sure).
I'm pretty sure that Ken doesn't beat Balrog, since the TAP beats pretty much
any trap set up by Ken. I do agree that Ken could really punish a missed
Balrog anything. Ken can beat Zangief, but this took real patience.
Dale
tru...@hotmail.com
> ************************************
>
> tru...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > In article <35DD30...@concentric.net>,
>
> [SLASH - I said that Ken had an advantage over Balrog in HF, and this
> was APOC's response]
Nope you said that Ken outright beat Chun, Honda & Balrog. Check your post.
That's why I was so shocked:)
> > I hope I don't upset anyone. But...How the hell does Ken outright beat
> > Balrog. It's the other way around, bro.
>
> Hmmm.. It's been a while... I seem to remember it being an uphill battle
> for Balrog, for some reason.. Or am I confusing that with GUile...
>
> PLus, I have to admit: Most of my Balrog playing was done on the SNES,
> which does make a difference in certain match-ups.
>
> > Balrog's TAP dodged all attacks up until you charged to 3. So one fireball unless done from completely across the screen equalled= free twist punch comboed into a jab straight dash = dizzy; Re-dizzy twice & dead.
>
> What was Balrog's redizzy?
It was simply a variation of timing in a normal combo that allowed one more
frc. to connect. Myself & George Ngo(Eggo of gamefan) had a dispute that it
wasn't a true re-dizzy 'til I trounced all the shotos with it & then he
conceded that yes, the last hit is unblockable when the rest of the combo is
timed differently. So you understand, even in the glory days of the world's
finest tournaments I was the only one who could do this combo 100%
consistently( & still can:)!) This being said you'll have to practice it
many times with a friend ( there was no combo counter back then.) before you
get it right. Here it is....
Jump in w/frc., do a c.short, then st.short, link(not 2in1. It won't work if
you 2in1.) a dashing short uppercut, then do a standing frc. Note: There is
a half sec delay(ok I'm estimating I've never timed it:) between each of the
hits. The combo must be done SLOWLY except for the final frc. Doing it slow
pushes the opponent back farther & later making him get hit late with the
dashing uppercut so that it hits in the last frame making the frc. connect.
If you need help on the last 2 hits connecting you can practice the dash
upper into st.frc on a SSF2 where there's a counter:)
>
> > Or if Balrog ever guesses a jump in over a fb... Jp.frc-short dash upper= 2hit dizzy; Redizzy, repeat=dead. & he can jump eight times & get dped 8 times & if he lands one hit it's over. Not to mention st.fierce trades w/ everything in Balrog's favor & it reaches halfway
> > across the screen.
>
> Heh. NOT Bison's s.roundhouse (as the CPU has show me TIME and time
> again), but that's not the point ;)
>
There's never a need for balrog to jump at Bison. Long stategy to explain
but put simply; It's all about the dash uppers & the c.rh in this match.
Bison loses:)
> > Balrog has flawless air defense st.strong, c.frc, dash upper, TAP all come to mind. & all of his moves recover virtually instantly. Ken can't anticipate a Balrog speecial move & jump in & combo. Balrog never needs to jump. His TAP dodges jump ins, sweeps, fbs....&
>
> I seem to remember being able to sweep Balrog during the TAP - not as he
> turns around and invincible, but after that and before he extends his
> fist. I could be wrong though.. I might be getting mixed up with the
> stuff SNES CPU used to do to me all the time (plus, there were almost no
> redizzies on the SNES version).
You're correct but it doesn't apply here. Sure if someone using Balrog just
did blind TAP. It's already obvious Ken cannot Jump at Balrog except after a
knockdown. So the only time to TAP is through a sweep or FB which are both
reactionary. Otherwise Balrog doesn't use it in the match. So he can never
be tripped out of it when you use it reactionary. & the invincibilty is so
long you don't even need reflexes to TAP a sweep into combo etc.
> > he really only needs to land one hit with the TAP & it's over as long as ken is on the ground. For example. Balrog walks up to Ken right at the start while holding down the kick buttons; if Ken fbs or sweeps or jumps back with an attack he's hit & then comboed if he threw a fb or sweep which leads to a daze & a redaze & death.
>
> What if Ken does a HK? :p
Crouching frc. Clean hit every time. Ken can't use this move in this match
much. Only in combos & for running away. & It's death if Ken runs to a
corner.
>
> Plus, Balrog can only go through a FB with a TAp while he turns around.
> If Ken and Balrog are on opposite ends of the screen (for whatever
> reason), and Ken throws a Fb from all the way across the screen, by the
> time it got close enough for Balrog to TAP through it, Ken would have
> recovered, and it's fierce DP city.
Read my post! I said this was the only time Balrog could get countered for
doing a TAP through a fb. Why would you ever do that move from that far
across the screen? You're not going to hit Ken & Balrog can jump over a fb
for free from that range & start stalking with the kick buttons down:)
>
> > God, I could go on forever. I played the best shotos at the time, Mike
> > Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tounament players playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.
>
> Ryu..? I would think that Ryu's recovery made him much more difficult to
> deal with. Even if you anticipted a FB, Ryu's short recovery and
> Balrog's short jump meant you had to be very close in the first place in
> order to jump and actually land a combo.
What?
Otherwise, Ryu recovered and
> got DPed, Ryu got hit high and still either DPed, HK, or sac-throw. At
> least that's how I remember it... *scratches head*
Ryu did not have quick recovery at all. Just quicker then Ken's. You don't
have to anticipate a fb to jump. Why? Balrog could st.frc which would trade
HIGHLY in Balrog's favor. But, WHY? No anticipation necessary. It is this
simple. Walk at RYU all day holding down 3 kicks, watch for when they are
standing or crouching, if they are crouching just wait for the button & TAP;
game over. If they are standing just wait for the joystick motion & block
when they hit the button. The start up time for a fb allows you to see the
fb come out before you need to TAP. So if they don't do a fb you were
blocking whatever. & if they got ballsy & dped then you let go when they are
on their way down. & if they threw a fb; game over.
& beyond all of this Balrog has easily meaner cheap grabs! This match is
sad. Ryu gets destroyed like nothing. Though Ryu may be a better character
overall; he has little to no chance in this match up. Same goes for Ken &
Sagat. Though Sagat's damage made that a somewhat even match.
>
> > Otherwise we're in agreement:)
>
> Cool.. Does Ken beat really Zangief in HF..? :)
I'd say it's even. Ken's frc dp gives him an advantage Ryu doesn't have.
I'd give Ryu vs.gief 55 to 45 odds in Giefs favor. It'd be hard for many to
agree unless they saw Kuni Funada vs. Tomo Ohira.
> U
>
Apoc.
tehyang
Yeah I agree with what you are saying... Balrog , if played at the very
highest levels (as it appears you are a Balrog master), can beat Ken or
Ryu pretty handily. The problem is that the timing for the TAP dodging the
fireballs was extremely hard, at least when I tried it. Also not many
people are dextrous enough to be able to hold down 3 buttons continuously
while still playing effectively. Also the jump fierce, dash uppercut combo
doesn't always dizzy ... it seems to dizzy only about half the time..
if you want a sure dizzy you have to do the combo the computer always does
but I can never do.. jump fierce, stand strong, uppercut...
-TK
A big balrog fan
On Fri, 21 Aug 1998 tru...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I hope I don't upset anyone. But...How the hell does Ken outright beat
> Balrog. It's the other way around, bro. Balrog's TAP dodged all attacks up
> until you charged to 3. So one fireball unless done from completely across
> the screen equalled= free twist punch comboed into a jab straight dash =
> dizzy; Re-dizzy twice & dead. Or if Balrog every guesses a jump in over a
> fb... Jp.frc-short dash upper= 2hit dizzy; Redizzy, repeat=dead. & he can
> jump eight times & get dped 8 times & if he lands one hit it's over. Not to
> mention st.fierce trades w/ everything in Balrog's favor & it reaches halfway
> across the screen. Balrog has flawless air defense st.strong, c.frc, dash
> upper, TAP all come to mind. & all of his moves recover virtually instantly.
> Ken can't anticipate a Balrog speecial move & jump in & combo. Balrog never
> needs to jump. His TAP dodges jump ins, sweeps, fbs....& he really only
> needs to land one hit with the TAP & it's over as long as ken is on the
> ground. For example. Balrog walks up to Ken right at the start while
> holding down the kick buttons; if Ken fbs or sweeps or jumps back with an
> attack he's hit & then comboed if he threw a fb or sweep which leads to a
> daze & a redaze & death.
>
> God, I could go on forever. I played the best shotos at the time, Mike
> Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tounament players
> playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.
>
> Otherwise we're in agreement:)
>
> Apoc.
> >
> > Unlike ST, HF has no characters like Balrog or Akuma who outright smash
> > every one - everybody has somebody at least one other character who's
> > not in the same tier who can beat them. The weaker characters just have
> > many more characters who can beat them.
> >
> > --
> > U
> >
>
tru...@hotmail.com
Lion <lvi...@planete.net> wrote:
> Funk Soul Brother wrote:
> >
> > In article <199808210413...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> >
> > > >Name one SF game with true balance (HF comes closest, but even that is
> > > >not true balance). Such a thing doesn't exist.
> > >
> > > HF? Oh my god!! That was probably the worst one..why people love this Ryu/Ken
> > > festival game is beyond me....Super Turbo on LOWEST damage has 10times more
> > > balance than hf will ever have.
> >
> > now that's who ruled HyperFighter!
>
> Blanka is middle tier in HF. He's beaten by top tier characters
Blanka's best game was HF! Wadaya talkin' about? You couldn't have played
with throws. I recall Jeff Schaefer winning many tournaments with Blanka.
Remember, HF was the one where Blanka came down on your head after an upward
ball?
Apoc.
>
> --
> = Lion =
> "A dog is a dog, except when he is facing you in a narrow alley. Then,
> he is Mr. Dog."
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Ultima
Rambling factor: Average
Warning: Read at your own discretion
************************************
dpan...@kentlaw.edu wrote:
[SLASH]
> Bison and Vega were by no means weak characters in HF (that is what you mean? b/c they were even stronger in ST).
Correction. They are STRONG in ST. They aren't in HF. When I say weak,
I'm talking lower tier, not how much damage they do...
> Bison had the torpedo of doom,
Just don't telegraph it... More of a counter move or pressure move out
in the open...
3-5 hit combos that dizzied easily on a jump in.
Hmph. I've yet to pull of any Bison combo in HF reliably, but that's
just me. -_- Anyway, how often *did* Bison ever get a jump in? That long
floaty jump of his was just him practically begging for an anti-air
counter...
> Vega can pretty much throw for free, especially on jump-ins, hk's, missed sweeps.
Pretty much his only real strength... That and his jump speed.
> The game play didn't have to be as tight w/these two. Plus, they were great in the air.
Vega and Bison were tough to win with in general. Unlike most other
character, they didn't hose any one in particular. They were either
even, at a disadvantage, or got totally hosed themselves (Vega got
totally hosed by Blanka, for instance). Bison matchup well with some of
the stronger characters (like Sagat and GUile), but Vega was more
troublesome - his lack of varied useful normals and total lack of
defense (not to mention the losing of the claw) made him tough to play
and win consistently with, and he only had on useful special move, two
if you count the back-flip - his wall dive was useful only against
another Vega... :(
--
U
kevin
Brother) wrote:
>In article <35dc610f.502607755@news>, ke...@vividnet.com (kevin) wrote:
>
>> You are defintely wrong on this point. The fact of the matter
>> is, there are a few glitches in the game that are NOT considered part
>> of the game by anyone who really knows anything about it. That's why
>> the glitches that effected play were taken out of tournament play.
>> Who is going to beat Guile when he can invisible throw? It's not like
>> there's a counter to it. It's an obvious fuck up in the game. In
>> friendly play, there was really nothing you could do about it except
>> rejoin, choose Dhalsim and reset the game.
>
>Actually I found that in comparison to a normal quick move
>(like short), Guile's Magic Throw is slow to execute; thus
>an aggressive, ticking Ken can quite often keep is own, and,
>infact win. Either that or all my Magic Throwing opponents
>were shit :)
>
>FSB
Well, for one, Ken really didnt' have a chance vs. Guile
anyways...but as for the magic throw (invisible throw..whatever) being
slow....Not really, if Guile ever got you to block it was basically
over cause by the time your move would be coming out, the invisible
throw would already be started and you can't hit them while he's in
his throw animation....Block stun made it so basically, you were
dead....Doesn't really matter, Guile was the best anyways...
Ultima
Rambling factor: Average
Warning: read at your own discretion
************************************
tru...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <35DDBB...@concentric.net>,
> ult...@concentric.net wrote:
> >
> > tru...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <35DD30...@concentric.net>,
> >
> > [SLASH - I said that Ken had an advantage over Balrog in HF, and this
> > was APOC's response]
>
> Nope you said that Ken outright beat Chun, Honda & Balrog. Check your post. That's why I was so shocked:)
Yeah. But you only disputed the part about Balrog, and you said
"otherwise, we're in complete agreement". So I only mentioned the part
about which I thought you disagreed :) Cause I distinctly remember
Ken/Chun Li and Ken/Honda not being in those two's favour... It depended
more on Ken fucking up than anything else...
[SLASH]
> > What was Balrog's redizzy?
> It was simply a variation of timing in a normal combo that allowed one more frc. to connect. Myself & George Ngo(Eggo of gamefan) had a dispute that it wasn't a true re-dizzy 'til I trounced all the shotos with it & then he conceded that yes, the last hit is unblockable when the rest of the combo is timed differently. So you understand, even in the glory days of the world's finest tournaments I was the only one who could do this combo 100% consistently(& still can:)!) This being said you'll have to practice it many times with a friend ( there was no combo counter back then.) before you get it right. Here it is....
> Jump in w/frc., do a c.short, then st.short, link(not 2in1. It won't work if you 2in1.) a dashing short uppercut, then do a standing frc. Note: There is a half sec delay(ok I'm estimating I've never timed it:) between each of the hits.
Oh this old thing? This was a redizzy? Damn. Didn't work on SNES. I've
done this combo already... At least, I've done the last part. Wow.. That
s.fierce after the dash uppercut wasn't *that* hard... I don't know if I
could do it 100% of the time though... :p Also, you have to link it
after the s.short (the good ol quick elbow, right?), not 2-in-1 it?
Hmmm... Maybe that's why I could never get it consistently...
[snip]
> > > Or if Balrog ever guesses a jump in over a fb... Jp.frc-short dash upper= 2hit dizzy; Redizzy, repeat=dead. & he can jump eight times & get dped 8 times & if he lands one hit it's over. Not to mention st.fierce trades w/ everything in Balrog's favor & it reaches halfway
> > > across the screen.
> >
> > Heh. NOT Bison's s.roundhouse (as the CPU has show me TIME and time
> > again), but that's not the point ;)
> There's never a need for balrog to jump at Bison. Long stategy to explain but put simply; It's all about the dash uppers & the c.rh in this match. Bison loses:)
Actually, I was talking only about s.fierce - *every* time I stuck it
out, CPU Bison would stop it clean with a s.roundhouse. The timing was
too perfect for a human player to do. In fact, his s.roundhouse beat a
TON of Balrog's normal moves... >:(
Bison can beat Balrog as long as Bison is out in the open and has room
to manouver... I don't think Balrog can c.roundhouse Bison out of a
torpedo unless he's within half a screen of him. Otherwise, he can beat
him on block damage and halt Balrog when he tries to chase him.. =p
> > > Balrog has flawless air defense st.strong, c.frc, dash upper, TAP all come to mind. & all of his moves recover virtually instantly. Ken can't anticipate a Balrog speecial move & jump in & combo. Balrog never needs to jump. His TAP dodges jump ins, sweeps, fbs....&
> > I seem to remember being able to sweep Balrog during the TAP - not as he turns around and invincible, but after that and before he extends his
> > fist. I could be wrong though.. I might be getting mixed up with the
> > stuff SNES CPU used to do to me all the time (plus, there were almost no redizzies on the SNES version).
> You're correct but it doesn't apply here. Sure if someone using Balrog just did blind TAP. It's already obvious Ken cannot Jump at Balrog except after a knockdown. So the only time to TAP is through a sweep or FB which are both reactionary. Otherwise Balrog doesn't use it in the match. So he can never be tripped out of it when you use it reactionary. & the invincibilty is so long you don't even need reflexes to TAP a sweep into combo etc.
> > > he really only needs to land one hit with the TAP & it's over as long as ken is on the ground. For example. Balrog walks up to Ken right at the start while holding down the kick buttons; if Ken fbs or sweeps or jumps back with an attack he's hit & then comboed if he threw a fb or sweep which leads to a daze & a redaze & death.
> >
> > What if Ken does a HK? :p
>
> Crouching frc. Clean hit every time. Ken can't use this move in this match much. Only in combos & for running away. & It's death if Ken runs to a corner.
Overall, yeah. Though I suppose he could always pop a spazzy DP at the
right time to force Balrog off his back, but it wouldn't be easy *Shrug*
> > Plus, Balrog can only go through a FB with a TAp while he turns around. If Ken and Balrog are on opposite ends of the screen (for whatever reason), and Ken throws a Fb from all the way across the screen, by the time it got close enough for Balrog to TAP through it, Ken would have recovered, and it's fierce DP city.
>
> Read my post! I said this was the only time Balrog could get countered for doing a TAP through a fb. Why would you ever do that move from that far across the screen?
*Smacks head* Dammit, you're right... I didn't see the "unless" part.
Stupid stupid stupid. That's what I get for being up for 22 hours
straight... -_-
> You're not going to hit Ken & Balrog can jump over a fb for free from that range & start stalking with the kick buttons down :)
True true true..
> > > God, I could go on forever. I played the best shotos at the time, Mike Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tounament players playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.
> > Ryu..? I would think that Ryu's recovery made him much more difficult to deal with. Even if you anticipted a FB, Ryu's short recovery and
> > Balrog's short jump meant you had to be very close in the first place in order to jump and actually land a combo.
> What?
With his low jump, jumping from too far meant you would hit too high to
connect a combo with. Y'know, this was before Alpha easy 2-in-1s..
Connect *deeP* or else... :p
> Otherwise, Ryu recovered and
> > got DPed, Ryu got hit high and still either DPed, HK, or sac-throw. At least that's how I remember it... *scratches head*
> Ryu did not have quick recovery at all. Just quicker then Ken's.
..? Ryu's recovery was damn fast.
> You don't have to anticipate a fb to jump. Why? Balrog could st.frc which would trade HIGHLY in Balrog's favor.
Ah. I did use that, yes. Not as often as I should have though. Curse me
and my fouled up SNES damage settings... *sigh*
> But, WHY? No anticipation necessary. It is this simple. Walk at RYU all day holding down 3 kicks, watch for when they are standing or crouching, if they are crouching just wait for the button & TAP;
> game over.
If I'm ever in this matchup again (highly unlikely, but you never know),
I'll be sure to try this. I used to hold down the punches to charge the
TAp myself, since I found it was easier to hold them down an use the
kick buttons than the other way around... :\
> If they are standing just wait for the joystick motion & block when they hit the button. The start up time for a fb allows you to see the
> fb come out before you need to TAP. So if they don't do a fb you were
> blocking whatever. & if they got ballsy & dped then you let go when they are on their way down. & if they threw a fb; game over.
> & beyond all of this Balrog has easily meaner cheap grabs!
No question there. That was my main weapon against shotos actually...
> This match is sad. Ryu gets destroyed like nothing. Though Ryu may be a better character overall; he has little to no chance in this match up. Same goes for Ken & Sagat. Though Sagat's damage made that a somewhat even match.
Did Balrog's TAP go through Sagat's High tiger shots..? I can't
remember...
> > > Otherwise we're in agreement:)
> >
> > Cool.. Does Ken beat really Zangief in HF..? :)
> I'd say it's even. Ken's frc dp gives him an advantage Ryu doesn't have. I'd give Ryu vs.gief 55 to 45 odds in Giefs favor. It'd be hard for many to agree unless they saw Kuni Funada vs. Tomo Ohira.
I'll take your word for it ^_^
--
U
Onaje Everett
>
> You just punctuated my point. I don't have time to deal with "moody" people.
That's like saying that you don't have time to learn from your mistakes.
--
Bottom Line: ('cause those "moody" people made me the comboing and
pressuring terror that I am today.)
Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
Meaning: The Sensitive One
IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
Other Nicknames: The Juice, Combo "Master", "That Guy That Knows Stuff"
Mantra: "I can do ALL things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Phillipians 4:13
tru...@hotmail.com
> If I'm ever in this matchup again (highly unlikely, but you never know),
Bro! Sf collection 2 sept.2nd! I'm achin' for a national HF tourney! Back
then it was just all about the LA crowd. I used to wish it was like that
again but, this past year makes me grateful for the gatherings we have. &
even though we feel we know THIS game like the back of our hands we could
find out in a national tourney that we still haven't figued it all out! I
love a game with replay value!
Apoc.
> I'll be sure to try this. I used to hold down the punches to charge the
> TAp myself, since I found it was easier to hold them down an use the
> kick buttons than the other way around... :\
>
> > If they are standing just wait for the joystick motion & block when they hit the button. The start up time for a fb allows you to see the
> > fb come out before you need to TAP. So if they don't do a fb you were
> > blocking whatever. & if they got ballsy & dped then you let go when they are on their way down. & if they threw a fb; game over.
>
> > & beyond all of this Balrog has easily meaner cheap grabs!
>
> No question there. That was my main weapon against shotos actually...
>
> > This match is sad. Ryu gets destroyed like nothing. Though Ryu may be a better character overall; he has little to no chance in this match up. Same goes for Ken & Sagat. Though Sagat's damage made that a somewhat even match.
>
> Did Balrog's TAP go through Sagat's High tiger shots..? I can't
> remember...
>
> > > > Otherwise we're in agreement:)
> > >
> > > Cool.. Does Ken beat really Zangief in HF..? :)
>
> > I'd say it's even. Ken's frc dp gives him an advantage Ryu doesn't have. I'd give Ryu vs.gief 55 to 45 odds in Giefs favor. It'd be hard for many to agree unless they saw Kuni Funada vs. Tomo Ohira.
>
> I'll take your word for it ^_^
>
> --
> U
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Ben C.
>>>@(op) status.
>>
>>No no no son, you have it all wrong, the scrubs are the ones that get
>>kick/banned.
>
>You know...you are absolutely right!
>
>WHAM!
>
>[kicks tragic in the groin]
How long you been away from AOL now?
>Because someone disagrees with you, this constitutes "ruining the discussion"?
>Please. Your tyrannical ideals are amusing but shallow. What I consider
>impolite is when legitimate topics are brought up and some emotional idiot
>responds with obscenities.
No, if someone ruins the discussion by acting like a complete moron
and trying to thrust their completely inexperienced opinions as fact,
then they get kciked/banned.
>Just what #capcom needs...a egotistical, ignorant scrub with a panic button.
Luckily i took care of him... you got kicked/banned.
>Rest assured, I feel no remorse or hostility toward you for your flustered
>actions. I actually consider it victory for me that someone cannot conjuer up a
>counter to my argument and merely becomes frustrated, emotional, and pushes the
>panic/kick button. :-D
It wasn't a panic button. I put up with you for much longer than I had
to, and you know this. I was actually waiting for you to say "just
kidding" and present yourself as one of our freinds, playing a stupid
joke. Unfortunately it was not the case... you are just a scrub...
hence you got kicked/banned.
>>#1: It is an open forum. As I stated earlier, if you have nothing to
>>do but try and ruin the discussion, then you get kick/banned.
>
>Nope. #capcom is moderated and judged by the ops *opinions*
>
>(note: Hopefully I am mistaken, and just unfortunately ran into a bad apple)
>Your believe in "cheap" is your conspicuous inexperience which sticks
>out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
Inexperience? Ohh my... honestly, there's nothing here to say... you
just prove my point for me.
>In regard to the "glitches" you mention, they *are* part of the game.
>It is a choice whether or not you wish to play the game with these
>conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
>the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
>if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates
>any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
There's a reason these glitches were banned from tournament play sonny
boy. They were unfair. Especially when you couldn't even even it up by
playign same character matches in the original. I suppose you started
playing WAY back in the XvS days huh? You are so OG man.
>"Cheap" and "Chessy" exist only in the feeble mentalities of snivelling
>amateurs like yourself. You never hear players scream "CHEAP!" when playing
>in tournaments? Know why? It's called *experience*. Deal with it!
Didn't it seem odd to you... that you were the only one being
attacked? I mean, the ones that spoke up during the conversation
relaly had nothing to support your theory. Obviously it wasn't just
me...
>Starting to miss that panic button? :-)
Uhh... oooook.
>test512
>(awaiting *emotional* response)
I don't know where you get this emotional thing. I guess you think
someone has to be pissed of with you to kick you out of a channel. If
you think that, fine. However, it doesn't take much to kick/ban a
practicing scrub from a channel. Hence... you got kicked/banned.
trag
(tragic<AT>toxic<DOT>net)
C62
>>Because someone disagrees with you, this constitutes "ruining the discussion"?
>>Please. Your tyrannical ideals are amusing but shallow. What I consider impolite
>>is when legitimate topics are brought up and some emotional idiot responds with
>>obscenities.
>
>No, if someone ruins the discussion by acting like a complete moron
>and trying to thrust their completely inexperienced opinions as fact,
>then they get kciked/banned.
Define "ruining the discussion". I simply wished to discuss why "cheap"
does not exist. You disagreed. Became emotional and typed *obscenities*.
Then pushed the panic button because you cannot deal with the heat. Hence,
your inexperience in debating. I even tried to calm you down and suggested
that there is not need for your insults, yet you still continued...
In any case, your behavior was/is immature and scrubby. I picture you a
little, snivelling kid who pounds the machine screaming "CHEAP!" and foaming
at the mouth sprewing foul language. I love beating the crap out of scrubs like
you at the arcade >:-)
>>Rest assured, I feel no remorse or hostility toward you for your flustered
>>actions. I actually consider it victory for me that someone cannot conjuer
>>up a counter to my argument and merely becomes frustrated, emotional, and
>>pushes the panic/kick button. :-D
>
>It wasn't a panic button. I put up with you for much longer than I had
>to, and you know this. I was actually waiting for you to say "just
>kidding" and present yourself as one of our freinds, playing a stupid
>joke. Unfortunately it was not the case... you are just a scrub...
>hence you got kicked/banned.
I kid you not, kid. I DO NOT believe in "cheap". Your self-centered bigotry
pressed the panic button. Not to mention your cowardice. Do not be delusional,
it was I who put up with you with your childish behavior.
>>Your believe in "cheap" is your conspicuous inexperience which sticks
>>out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
>
>Inexperience? Ohh my... honestly, there's nothing here to say... you
>just prove my point for me.
Trust me, anyone who supports the belief in "cheap" are not at all
experienced. A true SF'er would acknowledge that anything in the game is
fair game. Many amateurs blame their losses on "unfair" ("cheap")
tactics from the game AND their opponents. Experience is a journey and in
the future you will learn that the only person to blame is *yourself*.
Your pimple shines brilliantly.
>>In regard to the "glitches" you mention, they *are* part of the game.
>>It is a choice whether or not you wish to play the game with these
>>conditions. Once you insert your coin, you have just bought into
>>the game "as is". Remember kid, *true* SF'ers are the ones who can tell
>>if the game is biased and would choose NOT to play the game if it indicates
>>any inbalance. Otherwise, "a fool and his money are soon parted".
>
>There's a reason these glitches were banned from tournament play sonny
>boy. They were unfair. Especially when you couldn't even even it up by
>playign same character matches in the original. I suppose you started
>playing WAY back in the XvS days huh? You are so OG man.
I've been playing since Karate Champ while you were picking your nose and
wearing diapers. In regard to glitches, I deal with it because it is part of
the game. This is my point, DEAL WITH IT, and quit your WHINING. Re-read my
passage above.
Tournaments are a collective collaboration of rules the participants agree on.
In turn, this means that tournament rules vary from tourney to tourney. Never
*assume* the rules you play by will apply to everyone.
>Didn't it seem odd to you... that you were the only one being
>attacked? I mean, the ones that spoke up during the conversation
>relaly had nothing to support your theory. Obviously it wasn't just
>me...
Please. Your *buddies* were only siding with you, whether they agreed with you
or not. It is truely a biased forum and believe me when I tell you that there
are MANY people who agree with me. However, the majority of players DO believe in
"cheap" because they are the average. It is reminiscent to a bell curve from my
college days. The majority are "C" players, "B" players are common, and "A" players
are few. Your poise and belief in "cheap" categorizes you as a "C" player. Of course
this overgeneralizing and does not apply to everyone. But in your case, it is quite
accurate.
Here is your thought of the day:
"Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of letting
their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
I have surpassed the IRC incident and I have decided to no longer participate in
such mediocre discussion. Most of the participants have jittery fingers and type
while they are thinking. This is intertwined with other Beavis and Butthead dialect
flowing through and makes discussing and debating a topic painfully annoying since
you can only type a sentence or two. This ng is my forum for now.
The topic is "cheap". Shall we dance?
Oh, tragic, if you do not feel inclined to respond, just press this panic button: -->O<--
I'll understand... >;-)
C62
( Of course this is harsh, but I'm all ears as to hear about good aspects about #capcom
from a more reliable and intelligent source than this scrub I am addressing in this post )
Tom Cannon
[chomp]
>>Who is going to beat Guile when he can invisible throw? It's not like
>>there's a counter to it. It's an obvious fuck up in the game. In
>>friendly play, there was really nothing you could do about it except
>>rejoin, choose Dhalsim and reset the game.
>
>Stay close to your opponent and be agressive. The magic throw has a
>considerable lag and the practicioneer must be wary to execute the
>move successfully or he only spits out a standing strong and wide open.
>
Is this a joke? The magic throw has NO (as in zero) lag time before
its execution. Yes, there is some "lag" between the time when the player
exectues the throw and the other guy falls down, but during this time
Guile is completely invincible and the throw cannot be escaped.
Practically speaking, there is no way to beat a magic throwing Guile. The
instant you're within range, Guile can magic throw you, then magic throw
you AGAIN off the ground until you are dead.
[chomp]
---
Tom Cannon
web...@inked.com
Onaje Everett
C62 wrote:
>
> In article <35e10707....@news.pacbell.net>, tra...@spamfree.com says...
>
> >>Because someone disagrees with you, this constitutes "ruining the discussion"?
> >>Please. Your tyrannical ideals are amusing but shallow. What I consider impolite
> >>is when legitimate topics are brought up and some emotional idiot responds with
> >>obscenities.
> >
> >No, if someone ruins the discussion by acting like a complete moron
> >and trying to thrust their completely inexperienced opinions as fact,
> >then they get kciked/banned.
>
> Define "ruining the discussion". I simply wished to discuss why "cheap"
> does not exist. You disagreed. Became emotional and typed *obscenities*.
> Then pushed the panic button because you cannot deal with the heat. Hence,
> your inexperience in debating. I even tried to calm you down and suggested
> that there is not need for your insults, yet you still continued...
This point's never going to get solved because the both of you are
seeing two different things. I wasn't there, so I can't support either
party, but I'm almost willing to bet that Ben kicked you for a good
reason. Ben's actually a nice guy and....well, he's not immature, like
you're making him out to be.
> In any case, your behavior was/is immature and scrubby. I picture you a
> little, snivelling kid who pounds the machine screaming "CHEAP!" and foaming
> at the mouth sprewing foul language. I love beating the crap out of scrubs like
> you at the arcade >:-)
Man, oh man. Don't you know who you're talking to? Tragic's been
around for ages, like myself. Plus, he's written FAQs...like that
brilliant Tekken 3 FAQ of his. He's competed in plenty of tournaments
and done fairly well. He's a good SF player and respected in a lot of
places. I say all of that merely to give credit where credit is due and
not to inflate his ego because, frankly, I don't care about anyone's ego
(not even my own, most of the time).
> >>Rest assured, I feel no remorse or hostility toward you for your flustered
> >>actions. I actually consider it victory for me that someone cannot conjuer
> >>up a counter to my argument and merely becomes frustrated, emotional, and
> >>pushes the panic/kick button. :-D
> >
> >It wasn't a panic button. I put up with you for much longer than I had
> >to, and you know this. I was actually waiting for you to say "just
> >kidding" and present yourself as one of our freinds, playing a stupid
> >joke. Unfortunately it was not the case... you are just a scrub...
> >hence you got kicked/banned.
>
> I kid you not, kid. I DO NOT believe in "cheap". Your self-centered bigotry
> pressed the panic button. Not to mention your cowardice. Do not be delusional,
> it was I who put up with you with your childish behavior.
Just because you don't beleive in "cheap" doesn't mean anything. I
don't beleive in "cheap" either, but you don't see me doing things like
poking fun or name calling because someone doesn't understand my point,
do you? That's called maturity...and maybe that's why he kicked
you....because you didn't show any at that point. But, yet again I
stress, I wasn't there, so what I'm saying is conjecture.
> >>Your believe in "cheap" is your conspicuous inexperience which sticks
> >>out like a pimple on your adolescent forehead.
> >
> >Inexperience? Ohh my... honestly, there's nothing here to say... you
> >just prove my point for me.
>
> Trust me, anyone who supports the belief in "cheap" are not at all
> experienced.
If we were to apply Boolean logic to this statement, there'd be no other
answer but FALSE. Just looking at Tragic's history proves that. You
obviously don't know a THING about him. If I were you, I'd stop calling
him a scrub. It only makes you look worse than you do.
> A true SF'er would acknowledge that anything in the game is
> fair game. Many amateurs blame their losses on "unfair" ("cheap")
> tactics from the game AND their opponents. Experience is a journey and in
> the future you will learn that the only person to blame is *yourself*.
Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's not cheap. Let's look
at the definition of the word, shall we? If you've read my posts, then
this should look VERY familiar.
The TRUE definition of cheap - anything that can be done and cannot be
stopped even if you KNOW it's coming (e.g. Magic Throw).
Granted, it's in the game and it's perfectly legit to use, but you
cannot tell me that winning with something that requires no thought
whatsoever (because even if your opponent anticipates it, they still
can't stop it) takes skill. You cannot tell me that simply
because....it doesn't! Logic will tell you that. False statement.
> Your pimple shines brilliantly.
Another weak, childish, and stupid insult that could just as easily be
turned around on you. The pimple's name, however, is ignorance.
Doesn't feel good, does it? Don't like it? Don't do it.
> >There's a reason these glitches were banned from tournament play sonny
> >boy. They were unfair. Especially when you couldn't even even it up by
> >playign same character matches in the original. I suppose you started
> >playing WAY back in the XvS days huh? You are so OG man.
>
> I've been playing since Karate Champ while you were picking your nose and
> wearing diapers. In regard to glitches, I deal with it because it is part of
> the game. This is my point, DEAL WITH IT, and quit your WHINING. Re-read my
> passage above.
You SOUND like me...but you're missing something. There are two ways of
"dealing with it":
1. Learn to counter it.
2. Stop playing.
However, since option #1 doesn't apply because there IS no counter,
you've gotta go with option #2...if you're smart.
Also, you have to remember, you're discussing a concept, not talking
about a game. Besides, since the game is pretty old, anyway, I'm pretty
sure that we've ALL at some point tried option #1.
> Tournaments are a collective collaboration of rules the participants agree on.
> In turn, this means that tournament rules vary from tourney to tourney. Never
> *assume* the rules you play by will apply to everyone.
I seriously doubt it was ever said that he force the rules upon
everyone. However, if you want your tournament to be one that's fair
and *gasp* skillful, you'd better do your best to get rid of all of the
things that are simply uncounterable.
> >Didn't it seem odd to you... that you were the only one being
> >attacked? I mean, the ones that spoke up during the conversation
> >relaly had nothing to support your theory. Obviously it wasn't just
> >me...
>
> Please. Your *buddies* were only siding with you, whether they agreed with you
> or not.
If that were so, then I wouldn't have witness occasions in which people
that are "buddies" arguing about different things. Since this was your
FIRST experience on #capcom, how can you possibly judge how things go
down? You can't! To think that you can is simply absurd.
> It is truely a biased forum and believe me when I tell you that there
> are MANY people who agree with me.
Where they at? I don't see them! If they were there, they would've
said something, right? :)
Where are they on a.g.sf2? I don't see them!!! Even when "I" was on
here, I (me, myself, and I) gave the definition of cheap that you saw
earlier and even HE acknowledged that I was right in saying that.
However, I think the term that should be used is "uncounterable cheeze"
or just plain "cheeze", rather than cheap.
Like Tragic just said, you're the only one being attacked. You're the
only one representing your side. Only in a few instances would this be
a good thing....and this is not one of them. Trust me on that.
> Your poise and belief in "cheap" categorizes you as a "C" player. Of course
> this overgeneralizing and does not apply to everyone. But in your case, it is quite
> accurate.
There you go again! You really just don't know.
> Here is your thought of the day:
>
> "Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of letting
> their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
Okay, but when do we finally say something when there seem to be nothing
but "upper echelon players" around? I mean, let's look at the Marvel
series, shall we? It hardly takes that much to be an "upper echelon
player" in ANY of those games. When does being an "upper echelon
player" actually mean anything? I'll tell you: In a fair game...namely
one without uncounterable cheeze.
> I have surpassed the IRC incident and I have decided to no longer participate in
> such mediocre discussion.
All this from ONE, count it, ONE experience. Just imagine what would
happen if you did that with everything in your life. Welp, be that
way. I know that #capcom is a good channel, else I wouldn't be on it.
The truth can be the truth all by itself without any help from you. I
hope the stuff that's discussed on #capcom actually filters down to this
newsgroup because if it doesn't.....you will have truly missed out.
> The topic is "cheap". Shall we dance?
I would if you had rhythm. :) Sorry....couldn't resist. Honestly. You
left yourself wide open on that one.
> ( Of course this is harsh, but I'm all ears as to hear about good aspects about #capcom
> from a more reliable and intelligent source than this scrub I am addressing in this post )
Fine, I've spoken...but Tragic's still not a scrub, whether you choose
to believe it or not. You really should get over to #capcom's webpage
and read the a.g.sf2 archives. Tragic's up in there with good posts.
Oh yeah....and mine aren't bad, either. :)
--
Bottom Line: ('cause #capcom IS the official IRC channel of this
newsgroup...else the best wouldn't be there.)
Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
Meaning: The Sensitive One
IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
IRC channel you'll most likely find me on: #capcom
Larry Williams
Onaje Everett wrote in message <35E250B0...@pacbell.net>...
>Just because you don't beleive in "cheap" doesn't mean anything. I
>don't beleive in "cheap" either, but you don't see me doing things like
>poking fun or name calling because someone doesn't understand my point,
>do you? That's called maturity...and maybe that's why he kicked
>you....because you didn't show any at that point. But, yet again I
>stress, I wasn't there, so what I'm saying is conjecture.
Actually, Onaje, C62 said it was tragic that was name calling.
>> It is truely a biased forum and believe me when I tell you that there
>> are MANY people who agree with me.
>
>Where they at? I don't see them! If they were there, they would've
>said something, right? :)
Well, I agree with him. I don't think it is right to call people names and
kick them off because there is a disagreement. Everyone should have
the oppurtunity to express what they feel.
C62 is doing the right thing by bringing the discussion he wished to talk
about at #capcom to this newgroup. And he has every right to lash out
if he was not given an oppurtunity at #capcom.
Although I do not agree that #capcom is a total waste of time. It is a good
place to *socialize* with other SF'ers but not a good place to debate.
-Larry
Lord BBH
writes:
>Where are they on a.g.sf2? I don't see them!!! Even when "I" was on
>here, I (me, myself, and I) gave the definition of cheap that you saw
>earlier and even HE acknowledged that I was right in saying that.
>However, I think the term that should be used is "uncounterable cheeze"
>or just plain "cheeze", rather than cheap.
For some reason, I have a good feeling that Crybaby62 is indeed "I".
----
-Matt Hall
Fear the BBH CHARACTERS.
"I am an unskilled fighter." - Ryu, Sakura's SFA3 ending
Ultima
Rambling factor: Moderate
Warning: This has been beaten to death, but what the hell...
************************************************************
Onaje Everett wrote:
Just felt I should put in my two cents while this is being kicked around
for the umpteenth time:
[SLASH]
> Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's not cheap. Let's look
> at the definition of the word, shall we? If you've read my posts, then
> this should look VERY familiar.
> The TRUE definition of cheap - anything that can be done and cannot be
> stopped even if you KNOW it's coming (e.g. Magic Throw).
I agree with this 100%. I think I've said as much many times, but I
thought I'd confirm it, in case anyone got me confused with those who
think "cheap" = "what I can't stop".
> Granted, it's in the game and it's perfectly legit to use, but you
> cannot tell me that winning with something that requires no thought
> whatsoever (because even if your opponent anticipates it, they still
> can't stop it) takes skill. You cannot tell me that simply
> because....it doesn't! Logic will tell you that. False statement.
[OMNISLASH]
>Even when "I" was on here, I (me, myself, and I) gave the definition of cheap that you saw earlier and even HE acknowledged that I was right in saying that. However, I think the term that should be used is "uncounterable cheeze" or just plain "cheeze", rather than cheap.
[FINAL HEAVEN]
Uhm, I disagree that "cheeze' should be used in place of "cheap". IMO,
"cheap" goes with the original definition above, with crap like Guile's
magic throw falling into that category. "Cheese" is of a much lesser
level, which comes from a highly unbalanced risk-reward ratio or
something that is very difficult to get around.
For example, I associate Strider's Psylocke-->Legion
-->Psylocke-->Legion-->Psylocke--> Legion-->Psylocke 40% damage BLOCKED
bullshit and his Oroboros + teleport behind oppponent = unblockable
attack crap to be ridiculous cheeze (in a game filled with ridiculous
cheese, but this is some of the worst IMO), not cheap. Both are
avoidable merely by jumping (though Strider can wait for you to jump and
time his stuff to connect when you land), but that doesn't mean that
they are still easy-no-ass techniques to use that offer way too much
reward for their use. They are counterable, so they're not cheap.. So
what? They're still damn cheesy...
And if you're arguing that "cheese" and "uncounterable cheese" should be
used separately (which you didn't earlier), all I have to say is this:
"cheap" is a lot shorter to type than "uncounterable cheese" :)
--
U
Gary Rhodes
C62 wrote in message <6rsti2$s18$1...@excalibur.flash.net>...
>"Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of
letting
>their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
This is very good quote. I recall a similar motto from the first Fatal Fury
Movie - Legend of the Hungry Wolf.
Tung Fu picked Terry Bogard over Andy as he did Jeff Bogard over Geese to
teach the Houdosakien(sp?) technique
because Andy and Geese do not cooperate with nature and let their emotions
be ruled by it.
This is true for playing video games. If you let your emotions become
controlled by the game and start calling things
"cheap" rather than cooperate with the game, then you are not playing at a
higer level. Winners tend to be the ones
who can adjust to the game while losers will compete with it and create
their own rules.
In regard to C62's complaints, I think it is wrong to declare #capcom
useless. But I also think it is wrong for Ben to
name-call and kick someone because you don't see eye to eye. There're both
at fault in my book.
:) Oh well, my 2 pennies...back to work.
tragic
>does not exist. You disagreed. Became emotional and typed *obscenities*.
>Then pushed the panic button because you cannot deal with the heat. Hence,
>your inexperience in debating. I even tried to calm you down and suggested
>that there is not need for your insults, yet you still continued...
>
>In any case, your behavior was/is immature and scrubby. I picture you a
>little, snivelling kid who pounds the machine screaming "CHEAP!" and foaming
>at the mouth sprewing foul language. I love beating the crap out of scrubs like
>you at the arcade >:-)
Ruining the discussion, in this particular case... would basically be
some idiot scrub from montanna, coming into the channel and presenting
his opinion as fact, and not even be interested in anyones opinions.
The, as people present their opinions, this person (ie you), claims
them to be scrubs, and ignorant on the level of SF talk.
>I kid you not, kid. I DO NOT believe in "cheap". Your self-centered bigotry
>pressed the panic button. Not to mention your cowardice. Do not be delusional,
>it was I who put up with you with your childish behavior.
That's fine. You are allowed to belive what you want. That still
doesn't mean it's a fact. Remember... the earth is ROUND, not flat...
no matter how many people think/thought the opposite.
Self centered bigotry? I think not. In fact, I was thinking of my
fellow #capcom regulars, and I banned you to retain what shreds of a
good day they had left. As for cowardice... you must be stretching for
words now... I put up with you for at least 30 minutes. Your CHILDISH
behaviour at that.
>Trust me, anyone who supports the belief in "cheap" are not at all
>experienced. A true SF'er would acknowledge that anything in the game is
>fair game.
Trust you? I wouldn't trust you if my life depended on it. You are a
typical "ive played SF 3 times and now I know everything" ignorant
scrub, who's opinions couldnt possibly have LESS meaning to real SF
players. Also, a true SF'er knows the difference between what is
unstoppable, and what is just too powerful. You, obviously, do not.
>I've been playing since Karate Champ...
Which proves what? Nothing.
>In regard to glitches, I deal with it because it is part of
>the game. This is my point, DEAL WITH IT, and quit your WHINING. Re-read my
>passage above.
So you are telling me, that if you played some SF World Warriors, and
someone turned off the machine every time the round started, or
handcuffed you, or whatever... you would find that enjoyable?
Especially when there isn't really anything you can do to prevent it
except not play? Give me a break. Also, for your information... there
is a difference between whining and trying to get through to an
inexperienced scrub such as yourself. However... usually the scrub
sees this as whining since all information goes directly against their
claims.
>Tournaments are a collective collaboration of rules the participants agree on.
>In turn, this means that tournament rules vary from tourney to tourney. Never
>*assume* the rules you play by will apply to everyone.
You think the "top players" all vote to not have the glitches
because...
Get real chump... they all aknowledge the glitches as unfair.
>>Didn't it seem odd to you... that you were the only one being
>>attacked? I mean, the ones that spoke up during the conversation
>>relaly had nothing to support your theory. Obviously it wasn't just
>>me...
>
>Please. Your *buddies* were only siding with you, whether they agreed with you
>or not. It is truely a biased forum and believe me when I tell you that there
>are MANY people who agree with me. However, the majority of players DO believe in
>"cheap" because they are the average. It is reminiscent to a bell curve from my
>college days. The majority are "C" players, "B" players are common, and "A" players
>are few. Your poise and belief in "cheap" categorizes you as a "C" player. Of course
>this overgeneralizing and does not apply to everyone. But in your case, it is quite
>accurate.
Yeah yeah... please. My buddies. My buddies Alex Valle (one of the
worlds greatest SFa2 and III players), John Choi (another of the
worlds greatest SFa2, III, and HF players), Kris Grytebust (ST
legend), Kevin Kitigawa (old school SF legend).... blah blah blah...
Yeah... they were only agreeing with me because they were my buddies.
Get over it short-stack... they were agreeing with me, and backing me
up because they actually can PLAY SF... and understand the difference
between glitches and just general overpowering things. You do not.
It's obvious to me that you havn't got the slightest clue about SF do
you. The majority of players that claim "cheap" are usually scrubs
that think throwing repeatedly is cheap, or tick to SPD is cheap. They
simply cant comprehend the difference between cheap/cheesey... a
comparison that I DID make for you on #capcom before you got all
whiney and stupid. You remember... right before I kick/banned you.
C player ehh. I simply can't understand then... why I'm a 2-time
national fighting game champ. Ohh yeah... and I make my living writing
strategy guides for fighting games... ohh and... OOPS... i work for a
video game company that designs fighting games...
I guess I should learn to respect the opinion of the local I.O.O.F
headmaster. Sorry guy... My bad.
>Here is your thought of the day:
>
>"Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of letting
>their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
Ohh great. "Famous words by unskilled + ignorant scrubs... today on
geraldo." Thanks... just what I needed.
>I have surpassed the IRC incident and I have decided to no longer participate in
>such mediocre discussion.
Joy! I'm glad you decided not to participate in #capcom discussion. We
don't need more AOLites coming in, just to show us all how badass they
are.
>This ng is my forum for now.
I feel bad for us. a.g.sf2 drops another notch.
>The topic is "cheap". Shall we dance?
The topic is "C62 is an ignorant scrub"... damn... the dance is over
=(.
Perhaps next time when you gather the courage to come back to some
real-time discussion... we could dance again.
If you don't though... and yer afraid of getting bagged on because yer
a moron... that's ok... I understand.
>C62
>( Of course this is harsh, but I'm all ears as to hear about good aspects about #capcom
>from a more reliable and intelligent source than this scrub I am addressing in this post )
Harsh? How so... Well I guess I see your point. I mean... usually the
custom of #capcom and a.g.sf2 is to make a stupid point, then look
stupid while trying to defend it with "I'm always right" backing it
up.. and having actual SF players beat you down in return.
But if you are inclined to make yourself look stupid, then beat
yerself down... by all means... continue.
tragic (O.A.S.I.S) - "you bettah axe somebodeh"
Onaje Everett
kinda needs to end. So, I hope this is it. But, anyways...
tragic wrote:
>
> Self centered bigotry? I think not. In fact, I was thinking of my
> fellow #capcom regulars, and I banned you to retain what shreds of a
> good day they had left. As for cowardice... you must be stretching for
> words now... I put up with you for at least 30 minutes. Your CHILDISH
> behaviour at that.
Only 30? Nah...you shoulda went an hour. ;)
> >Trust me, anyone who supports the belief in "cheap" are not at all
> >experienced. A true SF'er would acknowledge that anything in the game is
> >fair game.
>
> Trust you? I wouldn't trust you if my life depended on it. You are a
> typical "ive played SF 3 times and now I know everything" ignorant
> scrub, who's opinions couldnt possibly have LESS meaning to real SF
> players. Also, a true SF'er knows the difference between what is
> unstoppable, and what is just too powerful. You, obviously, do not.
Well said.
> C player ehh. I simply can't understand then... why I'm a 2-time
> national fighting game champ. Ohh yeah... and I make my living writing
> strategy guides for fighting games... ohh and... OOPS... i work for a
> video game company that designs fighting games...
That last bit intrigues me...I'll have to ask you about that later. :)
Otherwise, yeah...lay out ALL of your credentials. It's obvious he
doesn't know.
> I guess I should learn to respect the opinion of the local I.O.O.F
> headmaster. Sorry guy... My bad.
Uh oh, what's I.O.O.F.?
> >Here is your thought of the day:
> >
> >"Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of letting
> >their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
>
> Ohh great. "Famous words by unskilled + ignorant scrubs... today on
> geraldo." Thanks... just what I needed.
Not only that, but it's false, anyway. Just ask Valle or Choi, right?
:)
> >I have surpassed the IRC incident and I have decided to no longer participate in
> >such mediocre discussion.
>
> Joy! I'm glad you decided not to participate in #capcom discussion. We
> don't need more AOLites coming in, just to show us all how badass they
> are.
I wish, for the sake of de-bunking stereotypes, that an AOLer would come
on here and blow us away....for once. BBH and Maximoff can do it.
Where are the rest of y'all at?
> >This ng is my forum for now.
>
> I feel bad for us. a.g.sf2 drops another notch.
You mean there are notches lower than this one??!! Ah well. Let the
droves of scrubs comes. O.A.S.I.S. shall prevail over all. :)
> tragic (O.A.S.I.S) - "you bettah axe somebodeh"
We're BAAAAaaaaaack. :) (Heh heh heeeeh)
--
Bottom Line: ('cause O.A.S.I.S. is back, and you know they'll never be
wack.) :)
Dllem
Channel..
Dllem
_ _
+---ooo-O-ooo-----------+
To reply remove the i
from the email address
+-==--==--=-=--==--==-+
Cheap Stuff:
www.shop4.com (Lots of stuff)
www.pricewatch.com (Computer stuff)
www.dvdexpress.com (Dvd Movies)
+-==--==--=-=--==--==-+
oooO Oooo
C62
tragic wrote in message <35e76ef3...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>Define "ruining the discussion". I simply wished to discuss why "cheap"
>>does not exist. You disagreed. Became emotional and typed *obscenities*.
>>Then pushed the panic button because you cannot deal with the heat. Hence,
>>your inexperience in debating. I even tried to calm you down and suggested
>>that there is not need for your insults, yet you still continued...
>>
>>In any case, your behavior was/is immature and scrubby. I picture you a
>>little, snivelling kid who pounds the machine screaming "CHEAP!" and foaming
>>at the mouth sprewing foul language. I love beating the crap out of scrubs like
>>you at the arcade >:-)
>
>Ruining the discussion, in this particular case... would basically be
>some idiot scrub from montanna, coming into the channel and presenting
>his opinion as fact, and not even be interested in anyones opinions.
>The, as people present their opinions, this person (ie you), claims
>them to be scrubs, and ignorant on the level of SF talk.
Let's look at it in another angle shall we? Ruining the discussion is when some
egotistical moron feels that his op status gives him full dictatorship among
the participants. In turn, no other opinions or views are accepted and scorned
with hostile and CHILDISH OBSCENITIES. As the legitimate discussion of "cheap"
was presented to debate, the dictator disagreed, became emotional, and pressed the
panic button, and ruined what would have been a good discussion since #capcom is
supposely an open forum.
And just in case I was at fault in any way, I was not even given a "warning" of any
kind to NOT discuss sensitive topics such as "cheap", or I would be banned.
Such cowardice on your part.
>>Trust me, anyone who supports the belief in "cheap" are not at all
>>experienced. A true SF'er would acknowledge that anything in the game is
>>fair game.
>
>Trust you? I wouldn't trust you if my life depended on it. You are a
>typical "ive played SF 3 times and now I know everything" ignorant
>scrub, who's opinions couldnt possibly have LESS meaning to real SF
>players. Also, a true SF'er knows the difference between what is
>unstoppable, and what is just too powerful. You, obviously, do not.
Ah, lookie here! Is it? Yes it is! Another pimple on your adolescent face.
Let's call it IGNORANCE. You know nothing about me to make such accusations.
Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
>>In regard to glitches, I deal with it because it is part of
>>the game. This is my point, DEAL WITH IT, and quit your WHINING. Re-read my
>>passage above.
>
>So you are telling me, that if you played some SF World Warriors, and
>someone turned off the machine every time the round started, or
>handcuffed you, or whatever... you would find that enjoyable?
If you put in a coin into the machine, you have just been sold to the game and
will accept the game "as is". If you feel you have been cheated or "cheezed"
out of your money, go cry to the arcade attendant and ask for your money back.
Remember, you have two choices:
1. DEAL WITH IT
2. Don't play
>>>Didn't it seem odd to you... that you were the only one being
>>>attacked? I mean, the ones that spoke up during the conversation
>>>relaly had nothing to support your theory. Obviously it wasn't just
>>>me...
>>
>>Please. Your *buddies* were only siding with you, whether they agreed with you
>>or not. It is truely a biased forum and believe me when I tell you that there
>>are MANY people who agree with me. However, the majority of players DO believe in
>>"cheap" because they are the average. It is reminiscent to a bell curve from my
>>college days. The majority are "C" players, "B" players are common, and "A" players
>>are few. Your poise and belief in "cheap" categorizes you as a "C" player. Of course
>>this overgeneralizing and does not apply to everyone. But in your case, it is quite
>>accurate.
>
>Yeah yeah... please. My buddies. My buddies Alex Valle (one of the
>worlds greatest SFa2 and III players), John Choi (another of the
>worlds greatest SFa2, III, and HF players), Kris Grytebust (ST
>legend), Kevin Kitigawa (old school SF legend).... blah blah blah...
yada, yada, yada. Please. There are thousands of players who will dispute these
arrogant claims.
>It's obvious to me that you havn't got the slightest clue about SF do
>you. The majority of players that claim "cheap" are usually scrubs
>that think throwing repeatedly is cheap, or tick to SPD is cheap. They
>simply cant comprehend the difference between cheap/cheesey... a
>comparison that I DID make for you on #capcom before you got all
>whiney and stupid. You remember... right before I kick/banned you.
>
>C player ehh. I simply can't understand then... why I'm a 2-time
>national fighting game champ. Ohh yeah... and I make my living writing
>strategy guides for fighting games... ohh and... OOPS... i work for a
>video game company that designs fighting games...
Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
ARROGANCE.
I could care less if you claim you were the CEO of CAPCOM Srubby. It still does not
justify your stature. I judge you by what you write and what you have done:
1. You dismissed a legitimate discussion because you became emotional. You cursed and
raved and like a adolescent and panicked when you could not debate with me.
2. You believe in "unfair" tactics and moves(calling them "cheap") and blame the game
and your opponents but never take full responsibility.
I am not impressed.
>>"Upper echelon players are the ones who cooperate with the game instead of letting
>>their emotions be controlled by it. " -C62
>
>Ohh great. "Famous words by unskilled + ignorant scrubs... today on
>geraldo." Thanks... just what I needed.
Typical. Rather than *thinking* what the words mean, you become emotional again...
Re-read it again and tell me why you disagree. At least try to entertain me.
>>The topic is "cheap". Shall we dance?
>
>The topic is "C62 is an ignorant scrub"... damn... the dance is over
The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
Better call your buddy "the guy who knows stuff" (ack) for some more Clearasil.
(is there no end to all the arrogance on this newsgroup?)
>Perhaps next time when you gather the courage to come back to some
>real-time discussion... we could dance again.
Oh? What's this? Are you inviting me back to #capcom to finish our discussion?
Feh, and what will prevent you or your buddies to ban me when I come on and try
to debate? Will you give me op status too? Please. I accept the on-line debate,
but not on #capcom, but a channel of my discretion. I will be the only op and you
are more than welcome to invite your buddies. I'll invite mine too. This should
be fun. Do you accept?
If not, press your little panic button -->O<--
>tragic
Yes, an appropiate nick describing your video game skills.
C62
(OOOH YEAH! C62 is in the house BABY!!! and putting some whup ass on tragic!!!)
tragic
>egotistical moron feels that his op status gives him full dictatorship among
>the participants. In turn, no other opinions or views are accepted and scorned
>with hostile and CHILDISH OBSCENITIES. As the legitimate discussion of "cheap"
>was presented to debate, the dictator disagreed, became emotional, and pressed the
>panic button, and ruined what would have been a good discussion since #capcom is
>supposely an open forum.
>
>And just in case I was at fault in any way, I was not even given a "warning" of any
>kind to NOT discuss sensitive topics such as "cheap", or I would be banned.
>
>Such cowardice on your part.
Totally wrong again you are. The majority of all those conversing
agreed with me. Add to that, the fact that they all got the impression
of you... as a silly ignorant scrub. We all became tired of your
childish behavior "im right and you are all scrubs"... and when I
finally kick banned you, I was congratulated... not by my buddies
only... but the majority of the other participants as well. As for
being a dictator... and or emotional... I have no idea where you are
getting this junk. Dictator because I kickbanned you?... listen
sonny... If I hadn't kicked you... someone else woulda. As soon as I
kicked you... all i got were messages of "finally" and "I was just
about to do that"... so give me a break. As for emotional? What are
you talking about? Because I talked in caps? Uhh... oook. You can
think what you want... You have no idea of how someone is reacting at
the other end of the cable. I, for one, was simply laughing at you. I
guess that is emotional huh. I was overcome with giddyness to see such
a moron make a fool out of himself in front of perhaps the top %1 of
SF players in the United States and Canada.
As for cowardace? I think not. I had no qualms about kickbanning you.
>>Trust you? I wouldn't trust you if my life depended on it. You are a
>>typical "ive played SF 3 times and now I know everything" ignorant
>>scrub, who's opinions couldnt possibly have LESS meaning to real SF
>>players. Also, a true SF'er knows the difference between what is
>>unstoppable, and what is just too powerful. You, obviously, do not.
>
>Ah, lookie here! Is it? Yes it is! Another pimple on your adolescent face.
>Let's call it IGNORANCE. You know nothing about me to make such accusations.
Ignorance? A word you have become quite accustomed to huh? You have
the gall to tell me I know nothing about you... yet you feel free to
call me adolescent, ignorant, and emotional. Uhm... ooook.
>Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
>powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
>simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
>This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
>"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
A true Old School SFer KNOWS that the invisible throw is completely
unstoppable. I don't blame you, or me, or fred down the street for the
invisible throw. I blame invisible throw for being the invisible
throw. It's cheap... (ie unstoppable according to my numerous
definitions). I never said the Invisible throw was cheesey... did I?
Thought so. I acknowledge the invisible throw... and like the majority
of all great SF players, I realize its unbalance/unfairness. You
obviously found the invisible throw your only way of victory I
suppose... and this post somehow justifies your inexperience with
strategy and deep gameplay. But that's ok man... I forgive you.
Also, I wasn't complaining about anything... except maybe you. I was
just stating a fact about the invisible throw. You can put words in my
mouth all day... doesn't mean I said em. Also... fathoming something
that is unfair is the mentality of a loser? Is that so? So... if we
were in a drag race... and you had a Pinto (which I bet you probably
do)... and I had an Alchohol Blown V12 Funny Car... it would be even?
Wouldn't that be unfair? Think about it now.
>>Yeah yeah... please. My buddies. My buddies Alex Valle (one of the
>>worlds greatest SFa2 and III players), John Choi (another of the
>>worlds greatest SFa2, III, and HF players), Kris Grytebust (ST
>>legend), Kevin Kitigawa (old school SF legend).... blah blah blah...
>
>yada, yada, yada. Please. There are thousands of players who will dispute these
>arrogant claims.
Sure... because there are thousands of ignorant scrubs like
yourself... but only a handfull of the few elite... ie... the members
of #capcom.
>Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
>ARROGANCE.
Seriously... what are you talking about?
#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
this NG will tell you the same.
#2: That's not arrogance son... thats experience. Since you have no
experience or background... I can understand your rush to assume
arrogance. That's ok. I forgive you.
>I could care less if you claim you were the CEO of CAPCOM Srubby. It still does not
>justify your stature. I judge you by what you write and what you have done:
>
>1. You dismissed a legitimate discussion because you became emotional. You cursed and
>raved and like a adolescent and panicked when you could not debate with me.
>2. You believe in "unfair" tactics and moves(calling them "cheap") and blame the game
>and your opponents but never take full responsibility.
When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
in the channel. Yes... it was quite hilarious.
And yet again you are wrong. I could debate with you forever. You know
why? Because... no matter what I say, no matter what people I have...
you will always have an excuse to disclaim it. Typical of a scrub.
Always full of excuses. Thats ok... I forgive you.
>I am not impressed.
Good... I wasn't trying to impress you.
>>The topic is "C62 is an ignorant scrub"... damn... the dance is over
>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
I was just trying to explain to you the difference. Wait a second...
did you say... how I cant deal with..."cheap"? You mean... such a
thing exists? Egad NO!
>>Perhaps next time when you gather the courage to come back to some
>>real-time discussion... we could dance again.
>Oh? What's this? Are you inviting me back to #capcom to finish our discussion?
No, this discussion is finished. You lost... plain and simple. Game
Set Match to tragic.
#capcom is the SF channel. If you want to talk about SF to hardcore SF
tournament players... feel free to come back. If not... thats fine
too.
>If not, press your little panic button -->O<--
OOOOOOk...
>>tragic
>Yes, an appropiate nick describing your video game skills.
Ignorance again... in full effect. You amaze me. If you could harness
the ignorance you contain... perhaps we could find a way to turn it
into natural energy... and maybe stop the green house effect. But I
digress...
The nickname "tragic" came about after I went to a local arcade with a
couple freinds... and proceeded to destroy a few ignorant scrubs...
much like yourself... hey do you remember?... anyway... my freind
behind me explaimed "jeezuz that's tragic".
Now you know... and knowing is half the battle.
>C62
>(OOOH YEAH! C62 is in the house BABY!!! and putting some whup ass on tragic!!!)
Uhm...
No.
Simply put: you are a scrub. And by O.A.S.I.S.'s law of averages... a
scrub cannot put whupass on anyone... at anytime.
However... I can. How do you feel? Thought so...
Remeber C62...
It's ok... I forgive you.
tragic
Onaje Everett
>
> In article <35eb17ad....@news.earthlink.net>, nos...@nowhere.net says...
>
> >>Let's look at it in another angle shall we? Ruining the discussion is when some
> >>egotistical moron feels that his op status gives him full dictatorship among
> >>the participants. In turn, no other opinions or views are accepted and scorned
> >>with hostile and CHILDISH OBSCENITIES. As the legitimate discussion of "cheap"
> >>was presented to debate, the dictator disagreed, became emotional, and pressed the
> >>panic button, and ruined what would have been a good discussion since #capcom is
> >>supposely an open forum.
> >>
> >>And just in case I was at fault in any way, I was not even given a "warning" of any
> >>kind to NOT discuss sensitive topics such as "cheap", or I would be banned.
> >>
> >>Such cowardice on your part.
> >
> >Totally wrong again you are. The majority of all those conversing
> >agreed with me. Add to that, the fact that they all got the impression
> >of you... as a silly ignorant scrub. We all became tired of your
> >childish behavior "im right and you are all scrubs"... and when I
> >finally kick banned you, I was congratulated... not by my buddies
> >only... but the majority of the other participants as well.
>
> your CHILDISH BEHAVIOR of using OBSCENITIES to try prove to me that "cheap"
> exists with excerpts such as "you fucking moron" and "I am an expert and know
> what I am talking about" is ludicrous. This is factual and even your "buddies" would admit your
> immature behavior.
*sigh*
You know....I've put up with worse in my entire lifetime and it didn't
fluster me. Why should it fluster you? If what you're saying is the
truth, then no amount of obscenities should make you upset. Am I
justifying it if it happened? No, but common sense would tell you that
if the guy you're debating with has ops and you don't, you don't piss
him off. Simple.
> Your extreme arrogance and bigotry is why I am crucifying you.
>
> It is blasphemy, you are NOT SF god.
Egad. Talk about delusions of grandeur. You're reading tons more into
this whole discussion than exists.
> >As for being a dictator... and or emotional... I have no idea where you are
> >getting this junk. Dictator because I kickbanned you?... listen
> >sonny... If I hadn't kicked you... someone else woulda. As soon as I
> >kicked you... all i got were messages of "finally" and "I was just
> >about to do that"... so give me a break. As for emotional?
>
> Please, enough of the fibbing.
Anyone out there willing to show this guy that Tragic isn't fibbing?
> Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies.
In YOUR opinion. It's not fact, it's your perception. The true
question is: How many other people share that perception? Then,
another question would be, how many others have stood up and said that
#capcom is indeed an open forum?
I dunno. If you feel jilted because of one bad experience, so be it,
but don't ruin it for the rest of the people that might actually like
the channel once they try it.
> However, if there is a legitimate debate to be discussed, then it should either directed to another
> channel or have the "social club" have its on channel, say #capcom and #capcom_debate or
> whatever.
In your opinion. Now who's trying to play God, hmm? If Tragic isn't an
authority on SF, then you aren't an authority on #capcom. If Tragic has
no SF experience and has no basis for his opinions on "cheap", then you
have no basis for your opinions on #capcom.
This is all proven by your own logic. You have one experience with
discussing topics on #capcom compared to Tragic's many experiences, yet
he knows nothing and you know everything. *sniff* I smell a hypocrite.
But since #capcom does not get enough traffic anyway, it appears
nothing like this
> will ever happen. Thus, when serious debates are presented, there will always be some
> friction of all the egomaniacs who frequent the channel. Each posing their views as correct,
> spiteful words exchanged, emotions flare, and panic buttons pressed.
Conjecture.
> I have already mentioned your fallacies: OBSCENITIES, ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE,
> DICTATORSHIP, INEXPERIENCE.
I'm beginning to wish I had a killfile again.
Arrogance? How can it be arrogance when you've got the experience to
prove it? Inexperience? How can it be inexperience when the man's been
playing SF for ages?
You're making no sense.
> Let me know if you still do not comprehend why I make this claims and I'll be more than happy to
> drill you again Scrubby.
It's okay for you to be arrogant, but not him? *sniff* Hypocracy.
> You put no thought in your words and merely typed what you were thinking with only profanity as
> your argument. Do not despair, this ng gives you an oppurtunity to focus your arguement of why "cheap"
> exists to you. Unfortunately, you still only proved how inexperienced and scrubby you are.
Has he? He hasn't to me...but I guess I'm wrong, huh? :) I guess I'm
biased...though all I seem to be presenting is facts. The fact of the
matter is that you've been twisting everything that Tragic's been saying
so that it has no defense in your mind. I don't know how much more
clearly he has to say it to you.
> > What are you talking about? Because I talked in caps? Uhh... oook. You can
> >think what you want... You have no idea of how someone is reacting at
> >the other end of the cable. I, for one, was simply laughing at you. I
> >guess that is emotional huh. I was overcome with giddyness to see such
> >a moron make a fool out of himself in front of perhaps the top %1 of
> >SF players in the United States and Canada.
>
> This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
> arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
I suppose tournaments are nothing to you because you can't seem to
actually show up at one and actually prove that they're not the top 1%.
They have actually walked the walk. How about you?
> Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
> them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
> disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
Do you like playing Twister or something?
It's easy to twist experience and confidence into arrogance when you
(you being the person that's on the outside looking in) have no
experience. Fact is fact, man. There are billions of people in this
country and only some of them can be good enough to consistently do well
in tournaments. Refresh my memory: What's 20 divided by a billion?
It's actually LESS than 1%.
> >>Ah, lookie here! Is it? Yes it is! Another pimple on your adolescent face.
> >>Let's call it IGNORANCE. You know nothing about me to make such accusations.
> >
> >Ignorance? A word you have become quite accustomed to huh? You have
> >the gall to tell me I know nothing about you... yet you feel free to
> >call me adolescent, ignorant, and emotional. Uhm... ooook.
>
> An eye for eye kid. It was not I who started this arguement. You started it with your pathetic
> OBSCENITIES on #capcom. I'm only finishing what you started. >:-)
Ignorance is what you're using if you think that name-calling even
solves anything...if you're solution oriented, as you claim.
> >>Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
> >>powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
> >>simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
> >>This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
> >>"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
> >
> >A true Old School SFer KNOWS that the invisible throw is completely
> >unstoppable. I don't blame you, or me, or fred down the street for the
> >invisible throw. I blame invisible throw for being the invisible
> >throw. It's cheap... (ie unstoppable according to my numerous
> >definitions). I never said the Invisible throw was cheesey... did I?
> >Thought so. I acknowledge the invisible throw... and like the majority
> >of all great SF players, I realize its unbalance/unfairness.
>
> Good for you! Looks like our discussions has unclogged your thinking.
More like your hearing has unclogged. This is what he's been saying all
along. This is what I've said all along. This is what MANY a Street
Fighter player has said all along.
> You are
> in agreement with me up to the point where you whine and complain that it
> is "cheap". You say that no opponent should be blamed for using it, correct? Yet,
> you put the blame on the move itself? The pot calls the kettle black?
The blame is on Capcom for not catching this glitch before releasing the
game. Everybody and their mom knows that. C'mon now.
> You are getting confused kid, if "the invisible throw is cheap for being the invisible throw"
> and is upstoppable, then this definition will cover many other aspects of the game.
> Mainly all moves which are unstoppable (ie. Is Ryu's uppercut(SF2W) "cheap" because it is
> unstoppable?, Unblockable supers?, etc.) No! It is part of the game. This defintion of
> "cheap" to define something unstoppable falls short of reality. Try again.
I see a HUGE gaping hole in your logic. Ryu's Shoryuken (invincible or
not) is not "cheap" simply because if you don't put yourself in a
helpless situation (read: jump foolishly), then you won't get hit by
it. That's common sense.
Again, I break out the definition that I've used time and time again
that people seem to agree with because it's true: When you can't counter
something even when you KNOW it's coming and you are in a position to do
something about it, that's when it's cheap.
The invisible throw fits that definition perfectly.
> >>Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
> >>ARROGANCE.
> >
> >Seriously... what are you talking about?
> >
> >#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
> >experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
> >this NG will tell you the same.
>
> It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different meaning
> to someone else.
Then what, pray tell, do you consider experience?
I judge you by your actions, not what you or others say about you. In
your case, "stupid is
> what stupid does".
I see now why Tragic was laughing. I suppose you think that you never
make mistakes and never have an off day or never get to the point where
you can only take so much? Arrogance. Judging people by one solitary
action is just plain silly.
If it wasn't silly, we ALL wouldn't be here. You better think about
that.
> >#2: That's not arrogance son... thats experience. Since you have no
> >experience or background... I can understand your rush to assume
> >arrogance. That's ok. I forgive you.
>
> More amazing ignorance.
On your part because, as Tragic said, you have no experience. Have you
actually been to a tournament and competed? How can you say anything
one way or the other until you have? You have no basis for your
opinion...at all.
> I need not give you a run down of my decorated experience and job responsibilites
> to try to seem more "creditable". I'll leave this as a surprise. As of now, my
> argument alone is enough to whip your ignorant ass.
I think you may as well spill the beans because, frankly, all I can see
is an egoist who doesn't seem to realize that HE is the one that needs
to prove something, not Tragic. Don't believe me? Read DejaNews and go
to the a.g.sf2 archive on #capcom's homepage. See, he's already proven
himself. You are blowing hot air.
> >>I could care less if you claim you were the CEO of CAPCOM Srubby. It still does not
> >>justify your stature. I judge you by what you write and what you have done:
> >>
> >>1. You dismissed a legitimate discussion because you became emotional. You cursed and
> >>raved and like a adolescent and panicked when you could not debate with me.
> >>2. You believe in "unfair" tactics and moves(calling them "cheap") and blame the game
> >>and your opponents but never take full responsibility.
> >
> >When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
> >your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
> >the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
> >you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
>
> Heehee... easy now, those emotions of yours...
>
> Again, dispense with the fibbing.
More arrogant presumption. This is getting old quickly.
> Please pardon my bashing of you, but I'm finding this thread quite enjoyable. I always get a kick
> out of scrubs who cannot argue or debate and think they are "experienced". I love bursting
> their arrogant bubble > :-)
You...are....deluding...yourself....badly. Your facts are nonexistent
and your logic is flawed. You're not convincing anyone of anything,
save that your a hypocrite...and an arrogant one at that. If that seems
harsh to you, I suggest you actually look at what you've typed before
you jump on me for "calling you names".
Just as you judge by actions, so do I...but I wouldn't think you were
beyond convincing like you seem to be fond of doing towards others.
> >And yet again you are wrong. I could debate with you forever. You know
> >why? Because... no matter what I say, no matter what people I have...
> >you will always have an excuse to disclaim it.
>
> Let's deal with the facts shall we? As I mentioned so many times, you instigated this conversation
> and provoked me with your fallacies(see top of post). I will always disclaim and bash this sort
> of immature behavior from anyone. In your case, it is deserving and long-coming.
Irrelevant. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, now does
it? It's about your ego getting squashed because you couldn't defend
your point of view without getting so incensed that you sunk to the
level of the people that were on the other side of the issue. Your
fault, not theirs. No one deserves to be mistreated...especially over a
difference of view. THAT is immature...and, yes, I'm talking to both
sides.
> >>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
> >
> >Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
>
> Apparently not if you believe in something that is "unfair" and put the blame on something other than
> yourself.
Again, your logic is flawed. How can he NOT blame the game if that
feature is unstoppable despite anything that he uses in the game to
counter it? C'mon now.
> If you go throught life thinking that "life is unfair" you have already succumbed to a
> pessimist's mentality. Calling things "cheap" is only the beginning of your downward > spiral.
Life and video games are two completely different things. In video
games, you are limited to what the programming code allows you to do.
In life, you have limitless choices. If you have done everything that
the game lets you try to do in order to escape a tactic and every single
method fails, what else can you say about that tactic except that it's
unstoppable even if you KNOW it's coming and is, therefore, cheap?
THAT is logic at work.
Gee....I wonder if this is "I"? Hmmm....
> To your credit, your notion to invite my back to #capcom does seem to indicate some maturity on your behalf.
> It is *some* indication of an apology, but definitely not sincere. I have no ambitions to converse with such
> arrogant people like yourself. I'd rather smash them in the arcade, it is so gradifying...believe me :-)
Even make spelling errors like "I".
> Even this thread gives me satisfaction. Knowing that you cannot discuss or debate "cheap" on IRC, this ng,
> and balking to my challenge is soooo gradifying :-) I am now certain you are a scrub.
Yep, definitely "I".
--
Bottom Line: ('cause snap judgements very often lead to snap mistakes.)
C62
>>Let's look at it in another angle shall we? Ruining the discussion is when some
>>egotistical moron feels that his op status gives him full dictatorship among
>>the participants. In turn, no other opinions or views are accepted and scorned
>>with hostile and CHILDISH OBSCENITIES. As the legitimate discussion of "cheap"
>>was presented to debate, the dictator disagreed, became emotional, and pressed the
>>panic button, and ruined what would have been a good discussion since #capcom is
>>supposely an open forum.
>>
>>And just in case I was at fault in any way, I was not even given a "warning" of any
>>kind to NOT discuss sensitive topics such as "cheap", or I would be banned.
>>
>>Such cowardice on your part.
>
>Totally wrong again you are. The majority of all those conversing
>agreed with me. Add to that, the fact that they all got the impression
>of you... as a silly ignorant scrub. We all became tired of your
>childish behavior "im right and you are all scrubs"... and when I
>finally kick banned you, I was congratulated... not by my buddies
>only... but the majority of the other participants as well.
Now you are putting words in my mouth and making up creditability. Nevertheless,
your CHILDISH BEHAVIOR of using OBSCENITIES to try prove to me that "cheap"
exists with excerpts such as "you fucking moron" and "I am an expert and know
what I am talking about" is ludicrous. This is factual and even your "buddies" would admit your
immature behavior.
None of this was called for and I even suggested that there was no need for insults, but
your emotions overwhelmed you. Typical reaction from an inexperienced scrub to rant, rave,
and press a panic button for an easy way out.
Your extreme arrogance and bigotry is why I am crucifying you.
It is blasphemy, you are NOT SF god.
>As for being a dictator... and or emotional... I have no idea where you are
>getting this junk. Dictator because I kickbanned you?... listen
>sonny... If I hadn't kicked you... someone else woulda. As soon as I
>kicked you... all i got were messages of "finally" and "I was just
>about to do that"... so give me a break. As for emotional?
Please, enough of the fibbing. This can never be proven. Yes, your actions were that of a
tyrant so self-centered with his own beliefs that anyone who opposed or questions the
belief in "cheap", in this case, would be cursed at and banned. Hail Hitler eh?
Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies. I am perfectly fine
with this, it is always nice to have some SF outlet to try to get know one another and be friends.
However, if there is a legitimate debate to be discussed, then it should either directed to another
channel or have the "social club" have its on channel, say #capcom and #capcom_debate or
whatever. But since #capcom does not get enough traffic anyway, it appears nothing like this
will ever happen. Thus, when serious debates are presented, there will always be some
friction of all the egomaniacs who frequent the channel. Each posing their views as correct,
spiteful words exchanged, emotions flare, and panic buttons pressed.
But if looking for a solution is not your goal and trying justify yourself for your immature behavior is,
then by all means, let me continue...
I have already mentioned your fallacies: OBSCENITIES, ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE, DICTATORSHIP,
INEXPERIENCE. 3 pimples, a foul mouth, and a devotion to Hitler. How pathetic.
Let me know if you still do not comprehend why I make this claims and I'll be more than happy to
drill you again Scrubby.
Now let's reminisce,
*emotions..emotions* Remember?
When I questioned your claim that you are a "SF expert" you became irate. I said you have no right
to claim that something is cheap because you say it is cheap. Then you typed feeverishly at 100 mph
saying "yes I can..yes I can" or some crap like that. It sorta reminded me of the way a scrub jiggles
the joystick vigorously when trying to escape from a combo. This behavior is *emotional*.
You put no thought in your words and merely typed what you were thinking with only profanity as
your argument. Do not despair, this ng gives you an oppurtunity to focus your arguement of why "cheap"
exists to you. Unfortunately, you still only proved how inexperienced and scrubby you are.
> What are you talking about? Because I talked in caps? Uhh... oook. You can
>think what you want... You have no idea of how someone is reacting at
>the other end of the cable. I, for one, was simply laughing at you. I
>guess that is emotional huh. I was overcome with giddyness to see such
>a moron make a fool out of himself in front of perhaps the top %1 of
>SF players in the United States and Canada.
This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
Pluuuuzeee...
>>Ah, lookie here! Is it? Yes it is! Another pimple on your adolescent face.
>>Let's call it IGNORANCE. You know nothing about me to make such accusations.
>
>Ignorance? A word you have become quite accustomed to huh? You have
>the gall to tell me I know nothing about you... yet you feel free to
>call me adolescent, ignorant, and emotional. Uhm... ooook.
An eye for eye kid. It was not I who started this arguement. You started it with your pathetic
OBSCENITIES on #capcom. I'm only finishing what you started. >:-)
>>Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
>>powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
>>simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
>>This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
>>"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
>
>A true Old School SFer KNOWS that the invisible throw is completely
>unstoppable. I don't blame you, or me, or fred down the street for the
>invisible throw. I blame invisible throw for being the invisible
>throw. It's cheap... (ie unstoppable according to my numerous
>definitions). I never said the Invisible throw was cheesey... did I?
>Thought so. I acknowledge the invisible throw... and like the majority
>of all great SF players, I realize its unbalance/unfairness.
Good for you! Looks like our discussions has unclogged your thinking. You are
in agreement with me up to the point where you whine and complain that it
is "cheap". You say that no opponent should be blamed for using it, correct? Yet,
you put the blame on the move itself? The pot calls the kettle black?
You are getting confused kid, if "the invisible throw is cheap for being the invisible throw"
and is upstoppable, then this definition will cover many other aspects of the game.
Mainly all moves which are unstoppable (ie. Is Ryu's uppercut(SF2W) "cheap" because it is
unstoppable?, Unblockable supers?, etc.) No! It is part of the game. This defintion of
"cheap" to define something unstoppable falls short of reality. Try again.
>You obviously found the invisible throw your only way of victory I
>suppose... and this post somehow justifies your inexperience with
>strategy and deep gameplay. But that's ok man... I forgive you.
Your ignorant pimple eluminates...
>Also, I wasn't complaining about anything... except maybe you. I was
>just stating a fact about the invisible throw. You can put words in my
>mouth all day... doesn't mean I said em. Also... fathoming something
>that is unfair is the mentality of a loser? Is that so? So... if we
>were in a drag race... and you had a Pinto (which I bet you probably
>do)... and I had an Alchohol Blown V12 Funny Car... it would be even?
>Wouldn't that be unfair? Think about it now.
The person riding in the Pinto made the choice that he wants to race. (ie he knows
his disadvantages and DEALS WITH IT) Who knows, perhaps the Blown will break down in the
middle of the race. The tortoise and the hare analogy works only so far son.
>>Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
>>ARROGANCE.
>
>Seriously... what are you talking about?
>
>#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
>experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
>this NG will tell you the same.
It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different meaning
to someone else. I judge you by your actions, not what you or others say about you. In your case, "stupid is
what stupid does".
>#2: That's not arrogance son... thats experience. Since you have no
>experience or background... I can understand your rush to assume
>arrogance. That's ok. I forgive you.
More amazing ignorance. I need not give you a run down of my decorated experience and job responsibilites
to try to seem more "creditable". I'll leave this as a surprise. As of now, my argument alone is enough to whip
your ignorant ass.
>>I could care less if you claim you were the CEO of CAPCOM Srubby. It still does not
>>justify your stature. I judge you by what you write and what you have done:
>>
>>1. You dismissed a legitimate discussion because you became emotional. You cursed and
>>raved and like a adolescent and panicked when you could not debate with me.
>>2. You believe in "unfair" tactics and moves(calling them "cheap") and blame the game
>>and your opponents but never take full responsibility.
>
>When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
>your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
>the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
>you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
Heehee... easy now, those emotions of yours...
Again, dispense with the fibbing. It is immaterial now. This discussion is between you and I now
and the topic is "cheap - to be or not to be". But if this topic is not your fancy, then please continue
to entertain me with your dismal scrubbiness. As I mentioned before, I love kicking the crap out
of scrubs who have the nerve to say that there are in the top 1%.
Please pardon my bashing of you, but I'm finding this thread quite enjoyable. I always get a kick
out of scrubs who cannot argue or debate and think they are "experienced". I love bursting
their arrogant bubble > :-)
The topic is "cheap" remember?
>And yet again you are wrong. I could debate with you forever. You know
>why? Because... no matter what I say, no matter what people I have...
>you will always have an excuse to disclaim it.
Let's deal with the facts shall we? As I mentioned so many times, you instigated this conversation
and provoked me with your fallacies(see top of post). I will always disclaim and bash this sort
of immature behavior from anyone. In your case, it is deserving and long-coming.
>>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
>
>Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
Apparently not if you believe in something that is "unfair" and put the blame on something other than
yourself. If you go throught life thinking that "life is unfair" you have already succumbed to a
pessimist's mentality. Calling things "cheap" is only the beginning of your downward spiral.
To your credit, your notion to invite my back to #capcom does seem to indicate some maturity on your behalf.
It is *some* indication of an apology, but definitely not sincere. I have no ambitions to converse with such
arrogant people like yourself. I'd rather smash them in the arcade, it is so gradifying...believe me :-)
Even this thread gives me satisfaction. Knowing that you cannot discuss or debate "cheap" on IRC, this ng,
and balking to my challenge is soooo gradifying :-) I am now certain you are a scrub.
Panic button pressed...this discussion is indeed approaching a closure. Run kid, run!
C62
(who will never forgive someone who cannot repent to his crimes)
Ben C.
>>agreed with me. Add to that, the fact that they all got the impression
>>of you... as a silly ignorant scrub. We all became tired of your
>>childish behavior "im right and you are all scrubs"... and when I
>>finally kick banned you, I was congratulated... not by my buddies
>>only... but the majority of the other participants as well.
>
>Now you are putting words in my mouth and making up creditability. Nevertheless,
>your CHILDISH BEHAVIOR of using OBSCENITIES to try prove to me that "cheap"
>exists with excerpts such as "you fucking moron" and "I am an expert and know
>what I am talking about" is ludicrous. This is factual and even your "buddies" would admit your
>immature behavior.
Did you or did you not say (to this effect) "anyone have any thoughts
on "cheap"... then... when I explained my standpoint in it... you
say... "there is no cheap, and anyone who thinks there is such a thing
is a scrub".
Clear that up for me... a simple yes or no.
Now, after you have answered yes... how can you call that an appealing
invitation for conversation/debate? I don't see it. However... you
were allowed to remain in the channel and 'attempt' to back up your
claims... and you didn't. You just argued that we were all scrubs...
because we tried to exclaim the difference between cheap/cheese.
Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
>None of this was called for and I even suggested that there was no need for insults, but
>your emotions overwhelmed you. Typical reaction from an inexperienced scrub to rant, rave,
>and press a panic button for an easy way out.
You suggested there was no need for insults? Was that after you
branded us all scrubs for trying to differentiate cheap/cheese for
you? Or was that before? I can't remember...
>Your extreme arrogance and bigotry is why I am crucifying you.
Extreme arrogance and bigotry? OOOk. I was NOT the only one with the
same opinions in #capcom that day. I and the others were speaking from
experience... not arrogance. As for bigotry. Check yourself. You are
the one unable to cope with the fact that there are some things that
cannot be stopped in SF. The majority, if not all, are glitches. And
the majority of those are considered cheap.
>It is blasphemy, you are NOT SF god.
I never said I was SF god. Not even close. I do, however, speak from
experience. Experience through years of playing with some of the
greatest US players to play the game. I never said I was the
greatest... or a SF god. I simply explained what the general thought
was on the subject of unstoppable moves.
>Please, enough of the fibbing. This can never be proven. Yes, your actions were that of a
>tyrant so self-centered with his own beliefs that anyone who opposed or questions the
>belief in "cheap", in this case, would be cursed at and banned. Hail Hitler eh?
Fibbing? Explain.
ohh yeah "This can never be proven."...
then be quiet...
As you have failed to see throughout the 5 or so posts I have made to
this rediculous thread... I was, and I repeat, I was simply saying
what the majority of the other channels were saying. I know you are
stubborn... but your use of large words to get your porous points
across give me the impression you have at least some form of
knowledge. I guess just not for SF. Like I said... that's ok. I
forgive you.
>Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies. I am perfectly fine
>with this, it is always nice to have some SF outlet to try to get know one another and be friends.
Who are you? Stone Cold Steve Austin wanna-be or something? Give me a
break. The forum is very open. We listened to your claimed. We
listened to you berate us for opposing YOUR claims. We also listened
to you make a mockery of yourself. It is very true that most of us are
freinds... a lot of those freindships came from meetign on #capcom.
Many people have different opinions... and they state them, and back
them up with their own form of debate. They never got kick/banned. Why
did you? You need to realize... it was YOUR arrogance, ignorance, and
general scrubby AOL debate style that caused you to get kick/banned
20-30 minutes after you started your spew.
>However, if there is a legitimate debate to be discussed, then it should either directed to another
>channel or have the "social club" have its on channel, say #capcom and #capcom_debate or
>whatever. But since #capcom does not get enough traffic anyway, it appears nothing like this
>will ever happen. Thus, when serious debates are presented, there will always be some
>friction of all the egomaniacs who frequent the channel. Each posing their views as correct,
>spiteful words exchanged, emotions flare, and panic buttons pressed.
Cheap/Cheesy is always a valid topic. Valid topics are fun to
discuss... except when inexperienced players/debatee's such as
yourself try and own the conversation with weak points, and even less
backing. I'm fully aware of the ongoing presence of egomaniacs
frequenting the channel. Your joining the channel... was just another
such instance. Usually your type gets to stay... until they prove
otherwise.
>But if looking for a solution is not your goal and trying justify yourself for your immature behavior is,
>then by all means, let me continue...
The generally agreed upon soloution to that debate was found long ago.
Honestly I was just trying to inform you of the findings. It is really
not my fault that you couldn't handle it... and you got bent out of
shape... and had to call us all scrubs.
>I have already mentioned your fallacies: OBSCENITIES, ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE, DICTATORSHIP,
>INEXPERIENCE. 3 pimples, a foul mouth, and a devotion to Hitler. How pathetic.
Obscenities I agree. The point?
Arrogance? You confuse that with experience. I know you lack the
knowledge to decipher the difference... but really... this is getting
old.
Ignorance... wrong. In fact... you couldn't be any more wrong.
Actually, don't you find it funny that you were the only one that
basically supported your claims? Heh...
Inexperience is in your court... not mine.
I still don't know where you get this pimple thing. Do you look in the
mirror and realize.. "I cant belive I'm so pathetic... look at me...
I'm a XvS playing nerd... pocket protector that says 'ryu' on it... I
have so many pimples.... anyone that disagrees with me must be even
worse"...? or what. I seriously don't get it. But... whatever.
Oh and now you say I have a devotion to hitler? Haha... give me a
break. Your debating power has weakened to the point of busting. In
fact... I think you busted it yourself last post.
>Now let's reminisce,
>
>*emotions..emotions* Remember?
Excuse me? You failed to read the other post I suppose. You just think
because anyone disagrees with you.. they must be emotional and... have
a fondness for hitler? OOOOOOOOk there buddy.
>When I questioned your claim that you are a "SF expert" you became irate. I said you have no right
>to claim that something is cheap because you say it is cheap. Then you typed feeverishly at 100 mph
>saying "yes I can..yes I can" or some crap like that. It sorta reminded me of the way a scrub jiggles
>the joystick vigorously when trying to escape from a combo. This behavior is *emotional*.
I'm a SF expert in the sense that I know what I am talking about. I
talk to enough True Masters to get information I don't know. I also
don't make ridiculous claims (such as yourself) about this and that...
having no experience... (such as yourself).
So now it's my fault for typing fast? You are really busting yourself
on this one.
You would know how a scrub jiggles the joystick wouldn't you? I'm sure
you have it perfected... from all those long games of XvS, MvSF and
MvC huh? Your behavior and demeanor is... *pathetic*.
>You put no thought in your words and merely typed what you were thinking with only profanity as
>your argument. Do not despair, this ng gives you an oppurtunity to focus your arguement of why "cheap"
> exists to you. Unfortunately, you still only proved how inexperienced and scrubby you are.
In your opinion... of course.
I never dispair, especially when I've completely destroyed a scrub on
the ng. This thread was never about cheap/cheese. It was your pathetic
attempt at a rant aimed at the 'buddies' of #capcom... and why it was
a waste of time. Do you not remember?
>> What are you talking about? Because I talked in caps? Uhh... oook. You can
>>think what you want... You have no idea of how someone is reacting at
>>the other end of the cable. I, for one, was simply laughing at you. I
>>guess that is emotional huh. I was overcome with giddyness to see such
>>a moron make a fool out of himself in front of perhaps the top %1 of
>>SF players in the United States and Canada.
>
>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
Do you know who Alex Valle is? Do you know who John Choi is? Do you
know who Jason Cole, Jason Nelson, Bob Painter, Kris Grytebust, Omar
Deloney, Seth Killian, Milo Cooper... whatever.. I could go on...
anyway... do you have any idea of who they are? If so... then you
would know how stupid you sound.
>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
Untrue. Well.. true that you are talking to the top %1. They aren't
always right... but in that once instance... you were the only one
with a conflicting opinion.. and because of your lackluster "I know
because I said so" attutude... you got kick banned. NOT because you
disagreed with us.
>Pluuuuzeee...
Thank you and yer welcome.
>An eye for eye kid. It was not I who started this arguement. You started it with your pathetic
>OBSCENITIES on #capcom. I'm only finishing what you started. >:-)
Obscenities. Still playing the obscenities card? So like... if you say
"that ferarri is fast" and I say "fuck that ferarri is fast"... my
statement means nothing? Do me a favor... and shut the FUCK up. =P
>>>Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
>>>powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
>>>simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
>>>This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
>>>"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
>>A true Old School SFer KNOWS that the invisible throw is completely
>>unstoppable. I don't blame you, or me, or fred down the street for the
>>invisible throw. I blame invisible throw for being the invisible
>>throw. It's cheap... (ie unstoppable according to my numerous
>>definitions). I never said the Invisible throw was cheesey... did I?
>>Thought so. I acknowledge the invisible throw... and like the majority
>>of all great SF players, I realize its unbalance/unfairness.
>Good for you! Looks like our discussions has unclogged your thinking. You are
>in agreement with me up to the point where you whine and complain that it
>is "cheap". You say that no opponent should be blamed for using it, correct? Yet,
>you put the blame on the move itself? The pot calls the kettle black?
My thinking remains the exact same from the moment you came into the
channel... and will remain the same until you give up this hopeless
battle.
I never whined nor complained about cheese/cheap. It was your
incessant whining concenring us "scrubs" on #capcom that I had a
problem with. Also, when did I say no opponent should be blamed for
using it? I said I don't blame an opponent for the invisible throw
being available as a glitched maneuver in SF. Can you read? I think
you can.
>You are getting confused kid, if "the invisible throw is cheap for being the invisible throw"
>and is upstoppable, then this definition will cover many other aspects of the game.
>Mainly all moves which are unstoppable (ie. Is Ryu's uppercut(SF2W) "cheap" because it is
>unstoppable?, Unblockable supers?, etc.) No! It is part of the game. This defintion of
>"cheap" to define something unstoppable falls short of reality. Try again.
Oh man... why is it... when you get confused... you ask me if Im
confused? I don't get it.
Lemme explain something to you little boy:
When RYU's DP initiates in WW, you could be blocking, jumping...
whatever... you don't always take damage from it... it depends where
you are on the screen, what your actions are... Im sure you would know
this if you actually played SF. However:
When Guile's invisible throw initiates, the game is over. You cannot
stop it, you cannot reverse it, and it can be continued infinitely.
Perhaps you lack experience in WW. That's ok though.
>>You obviously found the invisible throw your only way of victory I
>>suppose... and this post somehow justifies your inexperience with
>>strategy and deep gameplay. But that's ok man... I forgive you.
>
>Your ignorant pimple eluminates...
Woah... now that means a lot.
>>Also, I wasn't complaining about anything... except maybe you. I was
>>just stating a fact about the invisible throw. You can put words in my
>>mouth all day... doesn't mean I said em. Also... fathoming something
>>that is unfair is the mentality of a loser? Is that so? So... if we
>>were in a drag race... and you had a Pinto (which I bet you probably
>>do)... and I had an Alchohol Blown V12 Funny Car... it would be even?
>>Wouldn't that be unfair? Think about it now.
>The person riding in the Pinto made the choice that he wants to race. (ie he knows
>his disadvantages and DEALS WITH IT) Who knows, perhaps the Blown will break down in the
>middle of the race. The tortoise and the hare analogy works only so far son.
This could be argued to the end of time. I suppose it's because you
simply lack the ability to acknowledge you are wrong. Hence, your very
poor debating skills which rely on nothing but heresay by a bunch of
local scrubs.
>>Seriously... what are you talking about?
>>#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
>>experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
>>this NG will tell you the same.
>It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different meaning
>to someone else. I judge you by your actions, not what you or others say about you. In your case, "stupid is
>what stupid does".
If you judge me by my actions... then come play me. I'm always up for
a challenge.
You've taken to quoting a mentally handicapped character in a movie?
For what? Whatever...
>>#2: That's not arrogance son... thats experience. Since you have no
>>experience or background... I can understand your rush to assume
>>arrogance. That's ok. I forgive you.
>More amazing ignorance. I need not give you a run down of my decorated experience and job responsibilites
>to try to seem more "creditable". I'll leave this as a surprise. As of now, my argument alone is enough to whip
>your ignorant ass.
A surprise? OOOk... why don't you just get it over and bestow us with
your secret identity. Then perhaps we can see if this was some sick
joke... or if, in fact, you are a moron.
>>When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
>>your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
>>the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
>>you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
>Heehee... easy now, those emotions of yours...
? I still don't get what you are talking about. You can play this
emotion card all day as well... but it really isn't helping this lost
cause you call a debate.
>Again, dispense with the fibbing. It is immaterial now. This discussion is between you and I now
>and the topic is "cheap - to be or not to be". But if this topic is not your fancy, then please continue
>to entertain me with your dismal scrubbiness. As I mentioned before, I love kicking the crap out
>of scrubs who have the nerve to say that there are in the top 1%.
Ignorance... or illeteracy? Which is it? I NEVER said I was in the top
1% of SF players. EVER. If there is a discussion between you and I...
that's fine... we can continue that by email. However, if you choose
to humiliate yourself on the NG every time you post... feel free. It's
quite humorous.
>Please pardon my bashing of you, but I'm finding this thread quite enjoyable. I always get a kick
>out of scrubs who cannot argue or debate and think they are "experienced". I love bursting
>their arrogant bubble > :-)
I think you forgot "attempt" at bashing. Your ignorance is more
present than ever... seeing as you do not know the experience that I
have. I couldnt care less what words you use to disclaim my
experience... especially someone who won't even say who they are.
That's pretty pathetic.
I also find it funny how you think you've actually gained something by
this thread. If you look at it realistically... you've embarrased
yourself. Made yourself look/sound like a fool. Proved you were
ignorant... and stupid at the same time... and... you've gotten
pummeled.
>The topic is "cheap" remember?
When was this? I recall that being the topic of #capcom. Not this
thread. Remember? Thought so...
>>And yet again you are wrong. I could debate with you forever. You know
>>why? Because... no matter what I say, no matter what people I have...
>>you will always have an excuse to disclaim it.
>
>Let's deal with the facts shall we? As I mentioned so many times, you instigated this conversation
>and provoked me with your fallacies(see top of post). I will always disclaim and bash this sort
>of immature behavior from anyone. In your case, it is deserving and long-coming.
Oh... so now it's a "he started it" war? If so... who came into the
channel and called us all scrubs for beliving in such thing as cheap
or cheese tactics? Remember how that was before anyone attacked you
directly? Thought so.
>>>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
>>
>>Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
>
>Apparently not if you believe in something that is "unfair" and put the blame on something other than
>yourself. If you go throught life thinking that "life is unfair" you have already succumbed to a
>pessimist's mentality. Calling things "cheap" is only the beginning of your downward spiral.
So now this is a lesson on life? Give me a break guy. I blame a move
for being cheap... if it is (like I have explained to you about 30
times)... unstoppable and completely unfair to opponents (especially
those who cannot use the identical tactics due to character
selection).
>To your credit, your notion to invite my back to #capcom does seem to indicate some maturity on your behalf.
>It is *some* indication of an apology, but definitely not sincere. I have no ambitions to converse with such
>arrogant people like yourself. I'd rather smash them in the arcade, it is so gradifying...believe me :-)
I basically did invite you to come visit us in #capcom at your leisue.
However, you received no apology. And you won't. Until you can settle
down, and have a good conversation without calling us all scrubs at
least. =)
Well.. I'm sorry for hurting your poor feelings by using bad-words.
Heh.
>Even this thread gives me satisfaction. Knowing that you cannot discuss or debate "cheap" on IRC, this ng,
>and balking to my challenge is soooo gradifying :-) I am now certain you are a scrub.
I could debate/discuss it all day if I had an opponent worth of such
discussion. You, however, do not seem capable of such a discussion...
as you are quick to call us scrubs for simply stating our opinions. I
mean, if you rush to judge BEFORE we can even start the debate...
what's the point? No really... what's the point?
>Panic button pressed...this discussion is indeed approaching a closure. Run kid, run!
I understand your need for a panic button... now that the walls of
this post come crashing down on your inexperienced head. I really have
no hard feelings against you... as even the lowest of the low need
freinds too. Heh.
>C62
tragic
ste...@qoole.com
Uh....you need to get over getting kicked from some IRC channel already.
Issues. Nuff said.
Stephen[SOS]
pnt
a) c62, (test_512 right?) you're acting desperate now. very
desperate. putting *'s around stuff, using pimple analogies,
if i didn't know any better i'd say you're getting...emotional.
b) telling people outright that they have no skills (you called
#capcom a group of scrubs) is not how you make friends. it's
one thing to disagree with the ops. it's another thing to enter
and begin to sling insults at the first person who does not see
things your way. ("Oh you believe in cheap, you must be a whining
scrub") He didn't get emotional. I can guarantee you that.
He admonished you for being so rude. When you refused to
apologize for your rudeness, he simply banned you. Calmly.
You were an blatant ass and were banned for it.
And if you have ever been an op in a fairly large channel,
you know that fools do not concern an op. An op bans you
with his right mouse button or a few keystrokes and doesn't
give you a second thought..only a first thought. Usually
that first thought is "what a dumbass." If you acted particular
dumb you might earn that second thought...he might laugh at
you for a little. Tragic gave you a second chance to not
be an ass, you didn't take it, so he banned you. probably
yawned and went to get a cup of coffee after puttign you
away. That's how it is. There's no emotion involved. It's
just "oh great another idiot. ban. *yawn*" Remember,
guys like you come in the channel at least once a day. _You're
nothing._ And certainly nothing special.
c) you can't compare magic throw to unblockable supers or
unstoppable dp. they are moves that have been balanced against
other moves. dp has tradeoffs, so do unblockable supers (ie
they take level 3, or have very short range, or are hard to
execute, etc.)
i ask you this: when you drive do you stay in your lane or
just go up on the sidewalk and on the wrong side of the street
in order to get where you're going? when you were a kid and you
colored in books did you draw within the lines or just go every-
where you pleased? SF is a game. a game has rules. if it
didn't have rules it would be a lousy game. one of the rules
in SF happens to be a rule of real life itself; everything has
a tradeoff. nothing is without consequence.
magic throw has no tradeoffs. it's cheating. plain and simple.
i could come up and kick your ass with it anytime. then again
you could kick my ass with it too. so we both pick guile.
and both of us magic throw away. what fun. hey, it can be done,
so i guess it's in the game, huh? i guess i could physically
assault you if i lost, too. it can be done...it's fair game.
right? ...or wrong?
Throw out the rules, you throw out the game. Throw out the
game, and...well, why would you want to? Don't throw out the
game. Keep SF a game. Don't cheat....
Besides. Anyone smart won't play you if you cheat. I never
play against cheaters; it's pointless and stupid to try.
They consider themselves resourceful for having attained
and used a cheat which anyone can use; they have achieved
nothing special and yet act as though they are true gamers.
They're mostly right, except for one thing. As I said just
one paragraph above: they aren't playing the same game.
d) YOU , c62, provoked this thread. you acted like an ass
and then came on the newsgroup shouting and screaming about
#capcom.
I can guarantee you that the ops did not become emotional. It
doesn't make any sense. You're nothing to get emotional over.
Just another scrub. But I will add this: even in the fictional
universe in which they did become emotional, realize that, if
this universe existed, you would have brought it upon yourself.
If you disrespect people, do not expect them to behave civilly
in return. before you say that you have acted civil, I recommend
that you read through your past posts on this thread. Now I
continue; nothing alive can truly not feel any form of anger
towards a physical or intellectual aggressor. No animal, no
human being, regardless of anything. Don't believe me? Try it;
be an ass to your teachers, your parents, your associates; test
their reactions. Talk to kids and grandparents alike. Then you
will see that you actually ruined it for yourself.
It's not a fault that people will react to your hostile overtones
with anger, sadness, or (in this case) an amused kick/ban. It's
human nature. If you consider it a fault, it's a fault that is
human nature. Now in order to live and interact properly with
humans you must learn to work with, respect, and understand their
nature. Just as you must learn the ways of a language before you
can speak it, or the methods of control before you can play
street fighter, you must learn what people really are before you
can avoid the hostilities which, I conjecture, probably follow
you everywhere you go.
You have much work to do. You must work on improving your,
shall we say, "people skills." Only then will you receive the
fruitful communications with other intelligent beings that you
so seem to crave.
jah...@my-dejanews.com
> Nevertheless,
> your CHILDISH BEHAVIOR of using OBSCENITIES to try prove to me that "cheap"
> exists with excerpts such as "you fucking moron" and "I am an expert and know
> what I am talking about" is ludicrous. This is factual and even your "buddies"
> would admit your
> immature behavior.
Hahahahaha, oh please, please continue to post! My sides are splitting..
Since others have already gone the sensible logical route in replying, I won't
waste my time going that way as well. You. are. a. laughingstock.
Hahahahahhahaha man. Good laughs are hard to come by these days.
C62
>>Now you are putting words in my mouth and making up creditability. Nevertheless,
>>your CHILDISH BEHAVIOR of using OBSCENITIES to try prove to me that "cheap"
>>exists with excerpts such as "you fucking moron" and "I am an expert and know
>>what I am talking about" is ludicrous. This is factual and even your "buddies" would admit
>>your immature behavior.
>
>Did you or did you not say (to this effect) "anyone have any thoughts
>on "cheap"... then... when I explained my standpoint in it... you
>say... "there is no cheap, and anyone who thinks there is such a thing
>is a scrub".
>
>Clear that up for me... a simple yes or no.
I did indeed say the former but not the latter. When I expressed my views, it was you who
heckled me and called me a scrub for not believing in your "expert" opinions. "Anyone who
says that cheap does not exist is a scrub" you say. "I am an expert" you say. "#!@$@%" you say.
Crystal?
(sigh) Kids these days...
As I mentioned before, I have surpassed this piddling experience and whatever detailed
verbage that was exchanged is immaterial. However, the highlights of the events should be noted
and your behavior prosecuted. Let us review your crimes:
I submit the the following items which have already been proven by your actions:
1. Inappropiate profanity - PROVEN by your own admission
2. Ignorance - PROVEN with unwarranted claims and accusations about my person
3. Arrogance - PROVEN with many self-centered, unsubstantiated claims (ie. Top 1%, "expert")
4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
GUILTY!
I hereby sentence you to be "cheapped" to death by whatever definition you apply to the game.
A cruel punishment for an emotional scrub. Yes?
Heh, maybe one more...
6. Adolescence - PROVEN with all those glistening pimples on your little face :-)
>Now, after you have answered yes... how can you call that an appealing
>invitation for conversation/debate? I don't see it. However... you
>were allowed to remain in the channel and 'attempt' to back up your
>claims... and you didn't. You just argued that we were all scrubs...
>because we tried to exclaim the difference between cheap/cheese.
You never did. Never. You only tried to flex your muscles as the authority
on the channel and that your "expert" opinions were absolute.
"Cheap" and "Cheese" do not exist. Now is your oppurtunity to convince me
otherwise. Please continue...
>Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
>simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
>sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
It's called "class". Something you do not apparently have. Try going to court
and argue while sprewing your profane flith. Grow up kid.
>>None of this was called for and I even suggested that there was no need for insults, but
>>your emotions overwhelmed you. Typical reaction from an inexperienced scrub to rant, rave,
>>and press a panic button for an easy way out.
>
>You suggested there was no need for insults? Was that after you
>branded us all scrubs for trying to differentiate cheap/cheese for
>you? Or was that before? I can't remember...
I suggested there was no need for insults. Yet, you continued your emotional rampage.
This is fact. Remember now?
>>Your extreme arrogance and bigotry is why I am crucifying you.
>
>Extreme arrogance and bigotry? OOOk. I was NOT the only one with the
>same opinions in #capcom that day. I and the others were speaking from
>experience... not arrogance. As for bigotry. Check yourself. You are
>the one unable to cope with the fact that there are some things that
>cannot be stopped in SF. The majority, if not all, are glitches. And
>the majority of those are considered cheap.
Oh? Ha! I definitely cope with everything in the game and never complain. I need not call
something "unstoppable" or "unfair" to justify why I could not avoid it. "Cheap" simply
does not exist and I take full responsibility upon myself.
Another quote for you, "Winner's learn, losers complain" -C62
And no, I am not complaining to you, #capcom, or whatever. I am a winner because
I am "dealing with it" >:-)
>>It is blasphemy, you are NOT SF god.
>
>I never said I was SF god. Not even close. I do, however, speak from
>experience. Experience through years of playing with some of the
>greatest US players to play the game. I never said I was the
>greatest... or a SF god. I simply explained what the general thought
>was on the subject of unstoppable moves.
"expert" eh?
What is above expert? Master? God? Hrmmm?
>>Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies. I am perfectly fine
>>with this, it is always nice to have some SF outlet to try to get know one another and be friends.
>
>Who are you? Stone Cold Steve Austin wanna-be or something? Give me a
>break. The forum is very open. We listened to your claimed. We
>listened to you berate us for opposing YOUR claims. We also listened
>to you make a mockery of yourself. It is very true that most of us are
>freinds... a lot of those freindships came from meetign on #capcom.
Thus, biased opinions and apprehension to discuss "sensitive" topics. No, it is not an open
forum, but a moderated one with emotional ops who do not like the participatants to create waves
and perturb the "we"(#capcom) environment no matter how legitimate the discussion.
>Many people have different opinions... and they state them, and back
>them up with their own form of debate. They never got kick/banned. Why
>did you? You need to realize... it was YOUR arrogance, ignorance, and
>general scrubby AOL debate style that caused you to get kick/banned
>20-30 minutes after you started your spew.
You mean after you panicked kid?
Our discussion is here now and I've drawn you out like a fish out of water. As I mentioned
before, watching you dangle helplessly from my lure gives me great satisfaction. :-)
>>However, if there is a legitimate debate to be discussed, then it should either directed to another
>>channel or have the "social club" have its on channel, say #capcom and #capcom_debate or
>>whatever. But since #capcom does not get enough traffic anyway, it appears nothing like this
>>will ever happen. Thus, when serious debates are presented, there will always be some
>>friction of all the egomaniacs who frequent the channel. Each posing their views as correct,
>>spiteful words exchanged, emotions flare, and panic buttons pressed.
>
>Cheap/Cheesy is always a valid topic. Valid topics are fun to
>discuss... except when inexperienced players/debatee's such as
>yourself try and own the conversation with weak points, and even less
>backing. I'm fully aware of the ongoing presence of egomaniacs
>frequenting the channel. Your joining the channel... was just another
>such instance. Usually your type gets to stay... until they prove
>otherwise.
(snicker) More ignorance? You are getting monotonous.
>>But if looking for a solution is not your goal and trying justify yourself for your
>>immature behavior is, then by all means, let me continue...
>
>The generally agreed upon soloution to that debate was found long ago.
>Honestly I was just trying to inform you of the findings. It is really
>not my fault that you couldn't handle it... and you got bent out of
>shape... and had to call us all scrubs.
Uh..oh, more proof of your incredible arrogance and inexperience.
"Cheap" does not exist. Period. This has already been proven.
>>Now let's reminisce,
>>
>>*emotions..emotions* Remember?
>
>>When I questioned your claim that you are a "SF expert" you became irate. I said you have no right
>>to claim that something is cheap because you say it is cheap. Then you typed feeverishly at 100 mph
>>saying "yes I can..yes I can" or some crap like that. It sorta reminded me of the way a scrub jiggles
>>the joystick vigorously when trying to escape from a combo. This behavior is *emotional*.
>
>I'm a SF expert in the sense that I know what I am talking about.
Need I any more proof of your prominent arrogance?
Like Rudolf the red-nosed Reindeer, your pimple on your nose glows magnificiently...Ho, Ho, Ho.
Hehe, just thought I'd humour those who are actually keeping up with this ridiculous thread.
>You would know how a scrub jiggles the joystick wouldn't you? I'm sure
>you have it perfected... from all those long games of XvS, MvSF and
>MvC huh?
Oh my, this you have to take back to make yourself more creditable and appear more
of an "expert"!
These games have extreme dumb-downed controls and eye-candy rewards for button-mashing,
however, there is still some skill-factor within these games. Are you trying to associate the versus series
with pure scrubbiness? How scrubby of you! :-)
>>> What are you talking about? Because I talked in caps? Uhh... oook. You can
>>>think what you want... You have no idea of how someone is reacting at
>>>the other end of the cable. I, for one, was simply laughing at you. I
>>>guess that is emotional huh. I was overcome with giddyness to see such
>>>a moron make a fool out of himself in front of perhaps the top %1 of
>>>SF players in the United States and Canada.
>>
>>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
>>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
>
>Do you know who Alex Valle is? Do you know who John Choi is? Do you
>know who Jason Cole, Jason Nelson, Bob Painter, Kris Grytebust, Omar
>Deloney, Seth Killian, Milo Cooper... whatever.. I could go on...
>anyway... do you have any idea of who they are? If so... then you
>would know how stupid you sound.
Again, what gives you the audacity to make these people out to be the "top 1%". Let *them* come out
and claim they are the SF Gods. No need for you to kiss their asses. You live in a small world kid,
there are hundreds, thousands, of players around the world who would love an oppurtunity to smash
anyone who claims that they are the "cream of the crop". You're unbelievably stupid to proclaim this.
>>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
>>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
>>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
>
>Untrue. Well.. true that you are talking to the top %1.
(chuckle) Ho, ho, ho!
>>An eye for eye kid. It was not I who started this arguement. You started it with your pathetic
>>OBSCENITIES on #capcom. I'm only finishing what you started. >:-)
>
>Obscenities. Still playing the obscenities card? So like... if you say
>"that ferarri is fast" and I say "fuck that ferarri is fast"... my
>statement means nothing? Do me a favor... and shut the FUCK up. =P
Your profane statements are grammitically incorrect and mean nothing. Your adolescent mind
is only trying to communicate what little thoughts you have toward your surroundings and using
perverse words for description only proves how immature you. Nevertheless, your struggle to
cope with your sexual fetishes with a Ferarri amuses me.
>>>>Any TRUE SF'er would not blame others or the game on "unstoppable" or "too
>>>>powerful" tactics and call them "cheap" and "cheeze". A true SF'er would
>>>>simply acknowledge it, learn it, and deal with it. But never COMPLAIN about it.
>>>>This is why I call you a whiny scrub. To even fathom the idea that something is
>>>>"unfair", let alone give it a name, is the mentality of a loser.
>
>>>A true Old School SFer KNOWS that the invisible throw is completely
>>>unstoppable. I don't blame you, or me, or fred down the street for the
>>>invisible throw. I blame invisible throw for being the invisible
>>>throw. It's cheap... (ie unstoppable according to my numerous
>>>definitions). I never said the Invisible throw was cheesey... did I?
>>>Thought so. I acknowledge the invisible throw... and like the majority
>>>of all great SF players, I realize its unbalance/unfairness.
>
>>Good for you! Looks like our discussions has unclogged your thinking. You are
>>in agreement with me up to the point where you whine and complain that it
>>is "cheap". You say that no opponent should be blamed for using it, correct? Yet,
>>you put the blame on the move itself? The pot calls the kettle black?
>
>My thinking remains the exact same from the moment you came into the
>channel... and will remain the same until you give up this hopeless
>battle.
Yes, your thinking...Scrubby 4 life!
>I never whined nor complained about cheese/cheap. It was your
>incessant whining concenring us "scrubs" on #capcom that I had a
>problem with. Also, when did I say no opponent should be blamed for
>using it? I said I don't blame an opponent for the invisible throw
>being available as a glitched maneuver in SF. Can you read? I think
>you can.
>
>>You are getting confused kid, if "the invisible throw is cheap for being the invisible throw"
>>and is upstoppable, then this definition will cover many other aspects of the game.
>>Mainly all moves which are unstoppable (ie. Is Ryu's uppercut(SF2W) "cheap" because it is
>>unstoppable?, Unblockable supers?, etc.) No! It is part of the game. This defintion of
>>"cheap" to define something unstoppable falls short of reality. Try again.
>
>Oh man... why is it... when you get confused... you ask me if Im
>confused? I don't get it.
>
>Lemme explain something to you little boy:
>When RYU's DP initiates in WW, you could be blocking, jumping...
>whatever... you don't always take damage from it... it depends where
>you are on the screen, what your actions are... Im sure you would know
>this if you actually played SF.
I'm saying instances that it is invincible and unstoppable. "Cheap" by your definition right?
>However:
>When Guile's invisible throw initiates, the game is over. You cannot
>stop it, you cannot reverse it, and it can be continued infinitely.
Absolutely! DEAL WITH IT! Either that or don't play. Personally, I find no pleasure to play
Guile because of this and simply would not be another sucker. But I do not call it "cheap" because
I know I can do the same thing by using Guile.
>>>You obviously found the invisible throw your only way of victory I
>>>suppose... and this post somehow justifies your inexperience with
>>>strategy and deep gameplay. But that's ok man... I forgive you.
>>
>>Your ignorant pimple eluminates...
>
>Woah... now that means a lot.
Don't fret, at least you can see in the dark... :-)
>>It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different
>>meaning to someone else. I judge you by your actions, not what you or others say about you.
>>In your case, "stupid is what stupid does".
>
>If you judge me by my actions... then come play me. I'm always up for
>a challenge.
Bwahahaha! But of course! Enough mincing of words! Let's settle this once and for all! Pway me!
And how do *you* suppose we can arrange such a contest? Answer the 5 W's. Then I'll
give you my proposal. Will you balk on this challenge too I wonder?
>>More amazing ignorance. I need not give you a run down of my decorated experience and job responsibilites
>>to try to seem more "creditable". I'll leave this as a surprise. As of now, my argument alone is enough to whip
>>your ignorant ass.
>
>A surprise? OOOk... why don't you just get it over and bestow us with
>your secret identity. Then perhaps we can see if this was some sick
>joke... or if, in fact, you are a moron.
Patience.
>>>When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
>>>your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
>>>the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
>>>you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
>
>>Heehee... easy now, those emotions of yours...
>
>? I still don't get what you are talking about. You can play this
>emotion card all day as well... but it really isn't helping this lost
>cause you call a debate.
Go fish!
>>Again, dispense with the fibbing. It is immaterial now. This discussion is between you and I now
>>and the topic is "cheap - to be or not to be". But if this topic is not your fancy, then please continue
>>to entertain me with your dismal scrubbiness. As I mentioned before, I love kicking the crap out
>>of scrubs who have the nerve to say that there are in the top 1%.
>
>Ignorance... or illeteracy? Which is it? I NEVER said I was in the top
>1% of SF players. EVER. If there is a discussion between you and I...
>that's fine... we can continue that by email. However, if you choose
>to humiliate yourself on the NG every time you post... feel free. It's
>quite humorous.
Unlike you, I do not cherish an on-line identity or reputation. I have a life. I only wish to speak
the truth and wish to debate SF topics. Unfortunately no topics are being debated in this thread thanks
to you, but I do have the wonderful oppurtunity to bash an arrogant "expert". I do this not as a
personal attack toward you, otherwise this "discussion" should be directed to e-mail, but as an example of
how extremely egotistical SF'ers tend to become. It is not me who is being humiliated son.
So do not be offended that I am not talking directly to you...but through you. Your simply a martyr.
>>Please pardon my bashing of you, but I'm finding this thread quite enjoyable. I always get a kick
>>out of scrubs who cannot argue or debate and think they are "experienced". I love bursting
>>their arrogant bubble > :-)
>
>I think you forgot "attempt" at bashing. Your ignorance is more
>present than ever... seeing as you do not know the experience that I
>have. I couldnt care less what words you use to disclaim my
>experience... especially someone who won't even say who they are.
>That's pretty pathetic.
So far kid, you have shown me nothing to impress me. As I mentioned before, I judged you by your actions,
and you were found guilty on all charges.
>I also find it funny how you think you've actually gained something by
>this thread. If you look at it realistically... you've embarrased
>yourself. Made yourself look/sound like a fool. Proved you were
>ignorant... and stupid at the same time... and... you've gotten
>pummeled.
and...(sniffle)...and... Look at you! Whimpering like a little brat kid who cannot have his way.
>>The topic is "cheap" remember?
>
>When was this? I recall that being the topic of #capcom. Not this
>thread. Remember? Thought so...
The topic is "cheap" Shall we dance? Remember?
I can continue forever bashing you throughout this thread, but in reality, I really do wish to
discuss "cheap". This was why I tried IRC in the first place.
>>To your credit, your notion to invite my back to #capcom does seem to indicate some maturity on your behalf.
>>It is *some* indication of an apology, but definitely not sincere. I have no ambitions to converse with such
>>arrogant people like yourself. I'd rather smash them in the arcade, it is so gradifying...believe me :-)
>
>I basically did invite you to come visit us in #capcom at your leisue.
>However, you received no apology. And you won't. Until you can settle
>down, and have a good conversation without calling us all scrubs at
>least. =)
OK, let's give this one more shot then...
I've decided to return to #capcom and give you and the channel the benefit of the doubt:
09/04/98 09:00PM CST
C62
John Hayes
"Take it to email Already!"
I think there is something to it. :-)
C62
merely helping your "buddy" on #capcom. Besides, you indicated in an earlier
post that you agreed that "cheap" does not exist, yet you are being hyprocrtical
and biased by not supporting this principle.
I understand the close bonds that can develop on a chat channel and you are indeed
being loyal to your "buddy" but not loyal toward the debate/discussion. It's a catch 22
for you. But friends don't let friends believe in "cheap".
However, I will give you some brief commentary...
In article <35EB8BF6...@pacbell.net>, teve...@pacbell.net says...
>You know....I've put up with worse in my entire lifetime and it didn't
>fluster me. Why should it fluster you? If what you're saying is the
>truth, then no amount of obscenities should make you upset. Am I
>justifying it if it happened? No, but common sense would tell you that
>if the guy you're debating with has ops and you don't, you don't piss
>him off. Simple.
The participants should not be wary or apprehensive to debate a topic in fear
of "pissing-off" the op(s). It should be an open forum and only obvious
trouble-makers or those who use profanity(tragic) should be kicked.
A suggestive solution to this problem is (1) warn the offender (2) have a majority
decision to kick someone off(though this decision could be biased).
In any case, the op should not be the sole tyrant on the channel governing the discussions.
>Anyone out there willing to show this guy that Tragic isn't fibbing?
It would only be a biased opinion.
>> Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies.
>
>In YOUR opinion. It's not fact, it's your perception. The true
>question is: How many other people share that perception? Then,
>another question would be, how many others have stood up and said that
>#capcom is indeed an open forum?
>
>I dunno. If you feel jilted because of one bad experience, so be it,
>but don't ruin it for the rest of the people that might actually like
>the channel once they try it.
Agreed. I'm just voicing my experience for the benefit of those who are new.
Hopefully, my input would be taken into consideration to the #capcom coordinators, and make
it a better environment. However, I'm sure this would never be considered.
Just recently, I peeked at the channel and nothing but Beavis and Butthead dialect flowing
through:
Beavis> sup all
Butthead> my thing is...huh..huh..huh...
Yes.
Ryu's invincible DP is unstoppable. "Cheap" by tragic's definition of the word.
>Again, I break out the definition that I've used time and time again
>that people seem to agree with because it's true: When you can't counter
>something even when you KNOW it's coming and you are in a position to do
>something about it, that's when it's cheap.
Like Ryu's invincible DP or fireball when an opponent is risng fromt he floor. How "cheap"
right? Then again, SFA3 does indeed call a fireball death "cheap"...
>The invisible throw fits that definition perfectly.
>
>> >>Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
>> >>ARROGANCE.
>> >
>> >Seriously... what are you talking about?
>> >
>> >#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
>> >experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
>> >this NG will tell you the same.
>>
>> It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different meaning
>> to someone else.
>
>Then what, pray tell, do you consider experience?
This is gauged by the individual only. Only he can say how experienced he is by comparing himself
to the *game* (not his opponents or "buddies").
All SF'ers are arrogant. All of us.
I need only look at your sig to confirm your arrogance. (Combo "master", "The guy that knows stuff")
>> Please pardon my bashing of you, but I'm finding this thread quite enjoyable. I always get a kick
>> out of scrubs who cannot argue or debate and think they are "experienced". I love bursting
>> their arrogant bubble > :-)
>
>You...are....deluding...yourself....badly. Your facts are nonexistent
>and your logic is flawed. You're not convincing anyone of anything,
>save that your a hypocrite...and an arrogant one at that. If that seems
>harsh to you, I suggest you actually look at what you've typed before
>you jump on me for "calling you names".
>
>Just as you judge by actions, so do I...but I wouldn't think you were
>beyond convincing like you seem to be fond of doing towards others.
>
>> >And yet again you are wrong. I could debate with you forever. You know
>> >why? Because... no matter what I say, no matter what people I have...
>> >you will always have an excuse to disclaim it.
>>
>> Let's deal with the facts shall we? As I mentioned so many times, you instigated this conversation
>> and provoked me with your fallacies(see top of post). I will always disclaim and bash this sort
>> of immature behavior from anyone. In your case, it is deserving and long-coming.
>
>Irrelevant. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand, now does
>it? It's about your ego getting squashed because you couldn't defend
>your point of view without getting so incensed that you sunk to the
>level of the people that were on the other side of the issue. Your
>fault, not theirs. No one deserves to be mistreated...especially over a
>difference of view. THAT is immature...and, yes, I'm talking to both
>sides.
Good.
>> >>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
>> >
>> >Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
>>
>> Apparently not if you believe in something that is "unfair" and put the blame on something other than
>> yourself.
>
>Again, your logic is flawed. How can he NOT blame the game if that
>feature is unstoppable despite anything that he uses in the game to
>counter it? C'mon now.
Simple. Why was he in the position to recieve it?
>> If you go throught life thinking that "life is unfair" you have already succumbed to a
>> pessimist's mentality. Calling things "cheap" is only the beginning of your downward > spiral.
>
>Life and video games are two completely different things. In video
>games, you are limited to what the programming code allows you to do.
>In life, you have limitless choices. If you have done everything that
>the game lets you try to do in order to escape a tactic and every single
>method fails, what else can you say about that tactic except that it's
>unstoppable even if you KNOW it's coming and is, therefore, cheap?
>THAT is logic at work.
>
>Gee....I wonder if this is "I"? Hmmm....
>
>> To your credit, your notion to invite my back to #capcom does seem to indicate some maturity
>> on your behalf. It is *some* indication of an apology, but definitely not sincere. I have no ambitions
>> to converse with such arrogant people like yourself. I'd rather smash them in the arcade, it is so
>> gradifying...believe me :-)
>
>Even make spelling errors like "I".
>
>> Even this thread gives me satisfaction. Knowing that you cannot discuss or debate "cheap"
>>on IRC, this ng, and balking to my challenge is soooo gradifying :-) I am now certain you are a scrub.
>
>Yep, definitely "I".
I'll let him clarify this.
>--
>Bottom Line: ('cause snap judgements very often lead to snap mistakes.)
Yes, and you are making a "snap" judgement on me.
>Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
>Meaning: The Sensitive One
>IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
>IRC channel you'll most likely find me on: #capcom
>Other Nicknames: The Juice, Combo "Master", "That Guy That Knows Stuff"
>Mantra: "I can do ALL things through Christ, who strengthens me."
>-Phillipians 4:13
C62
(Who appreciates attempts of intelligent discussion)
tragic
"More ignorance? You are getting monotonous."
It's obvious no matter what I say... you will always retort by reading
too much into the sentences I type, all while making youself look like
a bigger idiot.
Face it... you lost.
Also, since you've obviously tried to be an idiot... I suppose to
spark controversy, you've now brought upon yourself verbal molestation
by other members of #capcom and the SF community... through this NG.
You've proved yourself a scrub... and no matter what you have left to
say... you can't get out of the hole you've dug for yourself
Game Over son.
tragic
ste...@qoole.com
Uh. Not to sound harsh, but who cares when you are going to be there? This
whole thing has become beyond stupid. I am hoping that someone matures enough
to move on from this "he said this/she said that" bullshit. Making an
appearance on IRC won't re-deem squat. Shutting this thread up does. The end.
Stephen[SOS]
<FAT SNIP>
> I've decided to return to #capcom and give you and the channel the benefit of
the doubt:
>
> 09/04/98 09:00PM CST
>
> C62
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Onaje Everett
>
> You must realize that I cannot take your opinions seriously knowing that you are
> merely helping your "buddy" on #capcom.
The only buddies you'll have, it seems, are the ones that agree with
you. If they don't think like you, then they aren't your friend.
Sad. I point out facts to your face and your pride blinds you to them.
So be it.
--
Bottom Line: ('cause intelligent discussion is only possible with
open-minded people.)
Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
Meaning: The Sensitive One
IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
IRC channel you'll most likely find me on: #capcom
Other Nicknames: The Juice, Combo "Master"
Onaje Everett
>
> However, I will give you some brief commentary...
I wish you had actually been CONSIDERATE and cut out the unnecessary
text, too. That would've helped you out just a little.
> In article <35EB8BF6...@pacbell.net>, teve...@pacbell.net says...
>
> >You know....I've put up with worse in my entire lifetime and it didn't
> >fluster me. Why should it fluster you? If what you're saying is the
> >truth, then no amount of obscenities should make you upset. Am I
> >justifying it if it happened? No, but common sense would tell you that
> >if the guy you're debating with has ops and you don't, you don't piss
> >him off. Simple.
>
> The participants should not be wary or apprehensive to debate a topic in fear
> of "pissing-off" the op(s). It should be an open forum and only obvious
> trouble-makers or those who use profanity(tragic) should be kicked.
In a perfect world, yes, you're right. But, this world is FAR from
perfect. Whether or not you think you offended him or whether or not
you think you were being disruptive doesn't really matter....because
everyone else there thought that you were. As you very well should
know, in discussion forums, it's usually the majority that ends up
getting their way.
Besides, if you were calling me a scrub for no reason and you were being
a pain in the butt, I'd kick you, too. Wouldn't YOU do the same? Try
treating people how you would want to be treated....it works.
> A suggestive solution to this problem is (1) warn the offender (2) have a majority
> decision to kick someone off(though this decision could be biased).
The thing is though, according to everything that's been posted, he DID
warn you. It may not have been a direct warning, but you can tell when
you're getting on someone's nerves, man. Common sense.
> In any case, the op should not be the sole tyrant on the channel governing the > discussions.
IIRC, there are usually between 5-10 ops on #capcom at a time. If they
thought that your banning was unfair, they would've unbanned you. Since
they didn't, it's pretty safe to assume that they agreed with what
Tragic did. Whether or not you see that as fair or unfair is up to you.
> >Anyone out there willing to show this guy that Tragic isn't fibbing?
>
> It would only be a biased opinion.
C'mon now. Give us SOME benefit of the doubt. You might actually be
surprised, not to mention it just might help your cause.
Oh...and....that statement smells a little bit like a whine....just to
let you know.
> >> Bottom line is #capcom is not an open forum, but a "social club" of buddies.
> >
> >In YOUR opinion. It's not fact, it's your perception. The true
> >question is: How many other people share that perception? Then,
> >another question would be, how many others have stood up and said that
> >#capcom is indeed an open forum?
> >
> >I dunno. If you feel jilted because of one bad experience, so be it,
> >but don't ruin it for the rest of the people that might actually like
> >the channel once they try it.
>
> Agreed. I'm just voicing my experience for the benefit of those who are new.
> Hopefully, my input would be taken into consideration to the #capcom coordinators, and > make it a better environment. However, I'm sure this would never be considered.
Now who's the pessimist? You contradict yourself more than many other
people I've seen post.
> >I suppose tournaments are nothing to you because you can't seem to
> >actually show up at one and actually prove that they're not the top 1%.
> >They have actually walked the walk. How about you?
>
> Yes.
Yes, what? Yes, tournaments are nothing to you? Yes, you've actually
played in a tournament with this group's top players and won? Which is
it? Specifics.
> >> You are getting confused kid, if "the invisible throw is cheap for being the invisible throw"
> >> and is upstoppable, then this definition will cover many other aspects of the game.
> >> Mainly all moves which are unstoppable (ie. Is Ryu's uppercut(SF2W) "cheap" because it is
> >> unstoppable?, Unblockable supers?, etc.) No! It is part of the game. This defintion of
> >> "cheap" to define something unstoppable falls short of reality. Try again.
> >
> >I see a HUGE gaping hole in your logic. Ryu's Shoryuken (invincible or
> >not) is not "cheap" simply because if you don't put yourself in a
> >helpless situation (read: jump foolishly), then you won't get hit by
> >it. That's common sense.
>
> Ryu's invincible DP is unstoppable. "Cheap" by tragic's definition of the word.
Not even close. That wasn't Tragic's whole definition.
> >Again, I break out the definition that I've used time and time again
> >that people seem to agree with because it's true: When you can't counter
> >something even when you KNOW it's coming and you are in a position to do
> >something about it, that's when it's cheap.
>
> Like Ryu's invincible DP or fireball when an opponent is risng fromt he floor. How "cheap"
> right? Then again, SFA3 does indeed call a fireball death "cheap"...
Ever heard of reversal special moves? Hello! No offense, but most
INTERMEDIATE players know about these. It's only called cheap on the
game because Capcom listens to scrubs! That didn't take much figuring
out, either. Remember...there are loads more scrubs out there than
there are good players...not to mention tournament quality players.
Numbers = money. Capcom wants money...therefore, they reduce throw
damage and range to cater to the scrubs. Nothing new here.
> >> >>Aha! (squeeze, squeeze) Yep, another pimple, on the tip of your Pinocchio nose, called
> >> >>ARROGANCE.
> >> >
> >> >Seriously... what are you talking about?
> >> >
> >> >#1: Pinnochio nose would imply that I am somehow fabricating my
> >> >experience. That is untrue, and anyone that knows me on #capcom or
> >> >this NG will tell you the same.
> >>
> >> It simply does not matter. What you consider experience could have a totally different meaning
> >> to someone else.
> >
> >Then what, pray tell, do you consider experience?
>
> This is gauged by the individual only. Only he can say how experienced he is by comparing himself
> to the *game* (not his opponents or "buddies").
That would be true...but only from an effort standpoint. When it comes
to actually proving that you're the best at something, you have to beat
other people and get to the point that your only competition is
yourself. THAT is what being the best you can be is about. However,
that doesn't always happen. Some people just aren't going to be as good
as others. As far as effort is concerned, you should perform to the
point that you have no regrets. If you try your best and fail, then you
have nothing to be ashamed about. However, all the trying in the world
will not make you the best unless you beat the best.
You can't say you're the best until you've come out of your cubbyhole
and proven it. Otherwise, you have no basis to say such a thing.
Tragic has done this, for one example. You...well...I'll just say that
this NG has never heard of you until now. (Of course, we all know
you're "I", so you can dispense with the whole scherade.)
I guess my facts are still biased, though, right? *sigh*
> >> >>I could care less if you claim you were the CEO of CAPCOM Srubby. It still does not
> >> >>justify your stature. I judge you by what you write and what you have done:
> >> >>
> >> >>1. You dismissed a legitimate discussion because you became emotional. You cursed and
> >> >>raved and like a adolescent and panicked when you could not debate with me.
> >> >>2. You believe in "unfair" tactics and moves(calling them "cheap") and blame the game
> >> >>and your opponents but never take full responsibility.
> >> >
> >> >When exactly did I become "emotional". That is all heresay/guessing on
> >> >your part. As I already wrote above... the only emotional feelings at
> >> >the time were joy. Just sitting there laughing at how much of a fool
> >> >you had made yourself become... while 10 other people ripped you apart
> >>
> >> Heehee... easy now, those emotions of yours...
> >>
> >> Again, dispense with the fibbing.
> >
> >More arrogant presumption. This is getting old quickly.
>
> All SF'ers are arrogant. All of us.
Speak for yourself. I'm not arrogant.
> I need only look at your sig to confirm your arrogance. (Combo "master", "The guy that knows stuff")
Heh. I only put that there because OTHER PEOPLE called me that and I
liked it. You know, like how ESPN's Chris Berman gives out nicknames to
sports athletes? C'mon now!
Besides, the second one was a stupid joke on my part. I have a sense of
humor. Sue me.
> >> >>The topic is "Cheap, and how tragic cannot deal with it". Shall we continue dancing?
> >> >
> >> >Seriously... again what are you talking about? I can deal with cheap.
> >>
> >> Apparently not if you believe in something that is "unfair" and put the blame on something other than
> >> yourself.
> >
> >Again, your logic is flawed. How can he NOT blame the game if that
> >feature is unstoppable despite anything that he uses in the game to
> >counter it? C'mon now.
>
> Simple. Why was he in the position to recieve it?
So...you're saying that a game is SUPPOSED to have flaws that are only
countered by not playing? I think where you're getting mixed up is in
what standpoint we (being myself and Tragic) are coming from. I'm
looking at this from a design standpoint. You're looking at it from a
player's standpoint. What I mean is that I'm looking at the flaws that
are in the game and saying that they do not belong there...especially
when they fit under the definition I gave of "cheap" (a term that is
easily taken out of context with some people). You, OTOH, are simply
focused on how to counter them, which is good, but only to a point. The
programming code of the game only allows you to do so much. When you
have exhausted every option the game gives you, what's left? Yep...stop
playing. That is NOT an option you want a game to have. A game is
meant to be PLAYED, not sit there and look pretty. A game should be
enjoyable and should also test your skill, thus enhancing the fun
experience. It should NOT have stuff in it that can't be countered in
any other way except not playing.
Do you understand what I'm saying? There are some things that do not
belong in a game at all. Things that are "cheap" (meaning that they
are, in fact, uncounterable no matter what you do or what you don't do
even if you see it or KNOW it's coming) simply do not belong in a game.
In a perfect world, they don't exist. However, this world ain't
perfect...we aren't perfect...thus, the games aren't perfect. They have
flaws. Some of them fit under the label of "cheap"...some fit under the
label or "overpowered".
> >Yep, definitely "I".
>
> I'll let him clarify this.
"He" already has. :)
> >Bottom Line: ('cause snap judgements very often lead to snap mistakes.)
>
> Yes, and you are making a "snap" judgement on me.
Am I? I'm just responding based on what the facts are saying. Maybe
the facts are judging you and you wouldn't know unless I pointed that
out to you. A little sumethin' sumethin' to consider.
--
Bottom Line: ('cause it's all about the facts, ma'am.)
Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
Meaning: The Sensitive One
IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
IRC channel you'll most likely find me on: #capcom
Other Nicknames: The Juice, Combo "Master"
C62
>It's obvious no matter what I say... you will always retort by reading
>too much into the sentences I type, all while making youself look like
>a bigger idiot.
Poor little boy. He cannot communicate his emotions vewy well do he?
You have every oppurtunity to express clearly what you wish to say. I recommend
you spend as much time as possible to *try* to refute my accusations upon you and
express why you believe in "cheap".
Conversely, expect me to give it my all to tear down your squabble. I have all the
incentive I need, because between you and I... you know I am right.
Remember, it is you who is guilty of the crimes charged against you, which you obviously
cannot deny and convienently avoided. As I mentioned before, I'm simply enjoying
my bashing of you as do many others who despise "arrogant" players who claim that they are
in the top 1% in the world. For those silent lurkers who had run-ins with arrogant players
like this(who think they are the "best") at your local arcade, this persecution of tragic
is your retribution!
Moving right along...this thread in itself has otherwise brought notoriety to #capcom.
The channel is indeed meager and appears difficult to justify discussion other than that of
casual social convention. However, there have been some inquisitive readers who wish to know
how they can "join" the channel. I recommend #capcom to put on their best behavior, otherwise
newcomers will only witness just another episode of Beavis and Butthead. To this end,
this thread squeezes an ounce of decency.
However, as mentioned, I will re-visit the channel to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Oh, tragic, keep your finger on the panic button scrub -->O<--
(shrug) It's the best you can do...
C62
(who never ducks at challenges)
seth james killian
>I did indeed say the former but not the latter. When I expressed my views, it was you who
>heckled me and called me a scrub for not believing in your "expert" opinions.
But clearly, you are a scrub. And as many a better scrub has done
before you, you have joined the ranks of those who have been humiliated by
their betters here on the newsgroup. Here's you: "I'm Joey Fuckface and
I've got something to say! Now everybody listen to me, because although I
hide behind an (intriguing, and original. Really!) veil of secrecy, and
no one's ever heard of me, and I've never been to a tournament, me and my
friends are really really good (really!), and I want to pick a fight over
a vague and uninteresting term that no one who's any good uses anyway
except as a joke, and which was debated to death over 6 years ago (here
on this very newsgroup), which I would know nothing about because I like
to shoot off my fool mouth instead of shutting up and listening to those
who've proven their skills and knowledge. And I'm a big stupid moron with
a fat butt, and my butt smells, and also I like to kiss my own butt."
Here's tragic (half an hour later): "Um, you're kicked."
>Crystal?
I hope so.
>(sigh) Kids these days...
>As I mentioned before, I have surpassed this piddling experience and whatever detailed
>verbage that was exchanged is immaterial.
You've "surpassed" it by posting yet another multi-hundred line
post where you repeat essentially exactly what you said before? Were I
less of a pimply-faced "kid", I might confuse your actions for those of
someone who's quite stuck on something, or whose widdle feewings had been
hurt.
> Let us review your crimes:
>1. Inappropiate profanity - PROVEN by your own admission
Well, you seem about as dim as the average B-law school graduate,
and fixated with the legal system, so you should probably note that it
was only "profanity" was proven. It's inappropriateness is another
question altogether. The swearing flows pretty freely around here, and
God hasn't smitten anyone for their ludeness just yet. Relax.
>2. Ignorance - PROVEN with unwarranted claims and accusations about my person
Pot. Kettle. Black.
>3. Arrogance - PROVEN with many self-centered, unsubstantiated claims (ie. Top 1%, "expert")
Even you should know that there are legally definable "experts", and
when it comes to SF and fighting games, tragic's resume qualifies him as one,
in no uncertain terms. Tragic's not arrogant, just good. And unsubstantiated?
Read his published stuff. Check the tournament winners. Eat ass.
>4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
>5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
Nice bit of rhetorical garbage here. Try again.
>GUILTY!
So what? Off with his head? Sit down, little man.
>Heh, maybe one more...
>6. Adolescence - PROVEN with all those glistening pimples on your little face :-)
Your zit-fixation is starting to creep us all out. Just drop this
one.
>"Cheap" and "Cheese" do not exist. Now is your oppurtunity to convince me
>otherwise. Please continue...
Why in the fuck is it anyone's job to convince you of something
no one even cares about, or takes seriously?
"Elephants" do not exist. Now is your opportunity to convince me
otherwise. Please contiue....
Being an idiot and demanding people show you why isn't hard. It
isn't fun. It's a waste of time. Getting the picture?
>>Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
>>simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
>>sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
>It's called "class". Something you do not apparently have. Try going to court
>and argue while sprewing your profane flith. Grow up kid.
Yes, if anything, you have established that you are a classy guy.
And throughout it all, I was always impressed by your highly mature
and ed-u-macated ability to refrain from the swearing of us hillbillies.
You may spew piles of crap and suck at SF, but at least you don't swear
while you're at it.
>I suggested there was no need for insults. Yet, you continued your emotional rampage.
>This is fact. Remember now?
If there's one thing that usenet and irc make abundantly clear, it's
that insults are a hell of a lot better at keeping people in line than
anything like argumentation. And don't try and take the high-ground on
this one either- insulting people who are beyond argument has a long
history from Socrates to Madeline Albright.
>Oh? Ha! I definitely cope with everything in the game and never complain. I need not call
>something "unstoppable" or "unfair" to justify why I could not avoid it. "Cheap" simply
>does not exist and I take full responsibility upon myself.
If you're retarded enough to take "full responsiblity" for Guile's
WW magic throw glitch, please be my guest. If you enjoy playing against
a magic-throwing Guile, again, be my guest. In fact I'll be your guest.
Tell me where you're at, put up a stake sufficient to cover the travel,
and I'll be happy to magic-throw your ass to payday on WW for as long as
you like.
>Another quote for you, "Winner's learn, losers complain" -C62
I thought it was "Winner's win. Loser's lose." Just because you
don't complain doesn't mean you can somehow climb into the winner's circle.
Win a tournament. Better yet, GO to a tournament. Then shoot off your
mouth. (although you'll find the winningest players don't bother- they
let the skills speak for them).
>And no, I am not complaining to you, #capcom, or whatever. I am a winner because
>I am "dealing with it" >:-)
No one here is going to confuse you for a "winner" for a long time.
>"expert" eh?
>What is above expert? Master? God? Hrmmm?
Umm, howsabout ninja! Or Ronin! Cool!
>Thus, biased opinions and apprehension to discuss "sensitive" topics.
Umm, there was a conversation about ass-wiping not too long ago.
If that isn't a sensitive a topic, I don't want to go any further.
>>it was YOUR arrogance, ignorance, and
>>general scrubby AOL debate style that caused you to get kick/banned
>>20-30 minutes after you started your spew.
>You mean after you panicked kid?
Panicking does not take 20-30 minutes, and you don't have to be
panicked that someone's going to expose you for a SF fraud to want to kick
someone off your irc channel. Please try and not be silly.
>Our discussion is here now and I've drawn you out like a fish out of water. As I mentioned
>before, watching you dangle helplessly from my lure gives me great satisfaction. :-)
No one wants to hear what you've got dangling.
>(snicker) More ignorance? You are getting monotonous.
You aren't getting monotonous, you've been that way for a while now.
Be quiet. Learn something.
>>I'm a SF expert in the sense that I know what I am talking about.
>Need I any more proof of your prominent arrogance?
If we accept the wild claim that SOMEONE knows what they're talking
about when it comes to SF- why are you so sure it isn't tragic? And why
does knowing your shit = arrogance?
>Like Rudolf the red-nosed Reindeer, your pimple on your nose glows magnificiently...Ho, Ho, Ho.
Dude, that was actually Rudolph's nose. I don't think reindeer get
acne. And again, drop the zit-thing.
>>>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
>>>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
What "gives the audacity"? Try having collectively won pretty much
all of the SF tournaments there are, across the country, coast to coast
and inbetween too.
No need for you to kiss their asses. You live in a small world kid,
>there are hundreds, thousands, of players around the world who would love an oppurtunity to smash
>anyone who claims that they are the "cream of the crop". You're unbelievably stupid to proclaim this.
They've HAD the opportunity to do just this. The tournaments aren't
some secret thing we try not to tell anyone about. They draw great players
from all over the country, and all over the world. Did they smash the
"cream of the crop"? Not yet. Keep trying.
>>>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
>>>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
>>>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
Well, okay then, kiddies. Take your pick. Who do you want to ask
for answers to SF questions. All the top tournament finishers from the
past 5 years or so, or Mr.mysterious C62? Nice try.
>Your profane statements are grammitically incorrect and mean nothing. Your adolescent mind
>is only trying to communicate what little thoughts you have toward your surroundings and using
>perverse words for description only proves how immature you.
This really stands on it's own. I would try and make fun of it, if
it didn't succeed wonderfully without my help. You post a grammar/english
flame with sentences like these? I take it you aren't a "kiddie" anymore,
but I'm not sure you've ever passed an english class, much less read a
book. Jeezus.
>>If you judge me by my actions... then come play me. I'm always up for
>>a challenge.
>Bwahahaha! But of course! Enough mincing of words! Let's settle this once and for all! Pway me!
>And how do *you* suppose we can arrange such a contest? Answer the 5 W's. Then I'll
>give you my proposal. Will you balk on this challenge too I wonder?
I'll be willing to bet you don't show. We've seen too many of
exactly your type for too many years to be taken in by your tired, tired
gimmicks.
>Unlike you, I do not cherish an on-line identity or reputation. I have a life. I only wish to speak
>the truth and wish to debate SF topics.
Ah, the "having a life" card. You've now invoked nazi's, poor
grammar, and the fact that "you have a life" (despite the fact that you
scheduled your "debate" for friday night at 9pm). Those are the three
strikes of how to spot a retard when "debating" on the internet.
Congratulations.
>So do not be offended that I am not talking directly to you...but through you. Your simply a martyr.
It's "you're", grammar boy. Although there are about a million
other screw-ups...
>The topic is "cheap" Shall we dance? Remember?
How can the topic be non-existant, as you claim "cheap" to be? How
are we supposed to know what you're talking about? If cheap doesn't refer
to anything real, how does asking us about it clear anything up?
>OK, let's give this one more shot then...
>I've decided to return to #capcom and give you and the channel the benefit of the doubt:
>09/04/98 09:00PM CST
We're on pins and needles. Will the secret identity finally be
revealed? Will "cheap" be finally disproven? Will anyone give a fuck?
Stay tuned...
Seth Killian
Onaje Everett
about C62's identity. :)
C62 wrote:
>
> In article <6smscr$rif$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, skil...@students.uiuc.edu says...
> >
> >C...@C62.COM (C62) writes:
> >
> >>I did indeed say the former but not the latter. When I expressed my views, it was
> >>you who heckled me and called me a scrub for not believing in your "expert" opinions.
> >
> > But clearly, you are a scrub. And as many a better scrub has done
> >before you, you have joined the ranks of those who have been humiliated by
> >their betters here on the newsgroup. Here's you: "I'm Joey Fuckface and
> >I've got something to say! Now everybody listen to me, because although I
> >hide behind an (intriguing, and original. Really!) veil of secrecy, and
> >no one's ever heard of me, and I've never been to a tournament, me and my
> >friends are really really good (really!), and I want to pick a fight over
> >a vague and uninteresting term that no one who's any good uses anyway
> >except as a joke, and which was debated to death over 6 years ago (here
> >on this very newsgroup), which I would know nothing about because I like
> >to shoot off my fool mouth instead of shutting up and listening to those
> >who've proven their skills and knowledge. And I'm a big stupid moron with
> >a fat butt, and my butt smells, and also I like to kiss my own butt."
> > Here's tragic (half an hour later): "Um, you're kicked."
>
> Congratulations! Did you make up this entire story by yourself? Your ignorance
> is just as prominent as...(squeeze, squeeze)...that pimple on your little nose.
*sigh*
Once again, you prove just how new you are to this group. This story's
played itself out time and time again on this group. It's far from made
up. Try looking at some archives and see for yourself.
> >> Let us review your crimes:
> >>1. Inappropiate profanity - PROVEN by your own admission
> >
> > Well, you seem about as dim as the average B-law school graduate,
> >and fixated with the legal system, so you should probably note that it
> >was only "profanity" was proven. It's inappropriateness is another
> >question altogether. The swearing flows pretty freely around here, and
> >God hasn't smitten anyone for their ludeness just yet. Relax.
>
> Whatever you say Joey Fuckface...
>
> What was it that someone mentioned earlier...oh yeah, "treat people as you wish
> to be treated".
Heh. Ummm....news flash. It only works when you actually practice it
CONSISTENTLY. :)
Now that we've got THAT out of the way...
> >>2. Ignorance - PROVEN with unwarranted claims and accusations about my person
> >
> > Pot. Kettle. Black.
>
> You mean just like your first paragraph in your post?
No....he means like what you've been posting for this whole thread.
Everything that you've accused Tragic of has been thrown right back at
you. It's like they say, "When you point at someone, you have three
more fingers pointing back at you."
Personally, I don't like to point, but if I have to, I make sure that
I'm either following my own advice or I acknowledge that I don't follow
my own advice. This particular trait is called "humility". Get some
and people might like conversing with you.
> >>3. Arrogance - PROVEN with many self-centered, unsubstantiated claims (ie. Top 1%, "expert")
> >
> > Even you should know that there are legally definable "experts", and
> >when it comes to SF and fighting games, tragic's resume qualifies him as one,
> >in no uncertain terms. Tragic's not arrogant, just good. And unsubstantiated?
> >Read his published stuff. Check the tournament winners. Eat ass.
>
> It is always amusing to hear the peculiar fetishes one blurts out when one becomes > angry.
Otherwise, you agree with what he said. I mean...you'd have to...he
only laid out facts.
> >>4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
> >>5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
> >
> > Nice bit of rhetorical garbage here. Try again.
>
> 4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
> 5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
I dunno about you, but 30 minutes is a LOOOOONG time to be putting up
with annoying behavior....and, like I said before, if Tragic was so
wrong, then why didn't the other ops on the channel unban you? Sorry,
you lost on that one. The majority ruled that you were a pest and
needed to be kicked. Therefore...you were. Deal with it.
As for inexperience, I'm afraid you're outgunned. There's way too much
evidence that says that Tragic knows his stuff...and not just in SF.
Whether or not he believes in "cheap" has NOTHING to do with his
experience. Nothing.
> >>"Cheap" and "Cheese" do not exist. Now is your oppurtunity to convince me
> >>otherwise. Please continue...
> >
> > Why in the fuck is it anyone's job to convince you of something
> >no one even cares about, or takes seriously?
> > "Elephants" do not exist. Now is your opportunity to convince me
> >otherwise. Please contiue....
> > Being an idiot and demanding people show you why isn't hard. It
> >isn't fun. It's a waste of time. Getting the picture?
>
> Just answer this question for me: Do you believe in "cheap"?
Just answer this question: Are you going to call him a scrub if he
does?
I don't think you're getting the point: It's not fun or productive
debating with you.
You can't even do a simple thing like acknowledge facts...which is at
the core of debating skill in the first place. Your mind is closed.
That doesn't help, either.
If you want to live in your own little world, go ahead...but don't
expect the truths of your world to line up with this one.
> >>>Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
> >>>simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
> >>>sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
> >
> >>It's called "class". Something you do not apparently have. Try going to court
> >>and argue while sprewing your profane flith. Grow up kid.
> >
> > Yes, if anything, you have established that you are a classy guy.
> >And throughout it all, I was always impressed by your highly mature
> >and ed-u-macated ability to refrain from the swearing of us hillbillies.
> >You may spew piles of crap and suck at SF, but at least you don't swear
> >while you're at it.
>
> Your last sentence, of course, is pure ignorance.
Of course, it is....because not only is it true, but you don't like it.
Well, hey, you haven't proven otherwise, so you're fair game. The
burden of proof is on you, as it always has been. You say you don't
suck at SF? PROVE IT. Shut us nay-sayers up! Walk the walk!
> Despite your sarcasm, debating is
> just as artistic as playing video games. A person who screams and swears is just
> making noise. I prefer to kill them with "kindness" and "subtleness".
While I can appreciate this approach (because I like it, myself), you
tend to forget to use logic in the process. I'm sorry, but when
undisputable facts that can be researched are presented and you refute
them simply because you want to....well...that's illogical. The only
reason why I can see you doing it is because you don't want to
acknowledge that you could be wrong. Your pride is your poison.
(Gee...haven't I said that to you, before?)
BTW, it's funny how I remember "I" saying this. Coincidence?
Well....let's see...
> Therefore, I will re-visit #capcom to give the channel another chance.
If only I could be there.
> >>Oh? Ha! I definitely cope with everything in the game and never complain. I need not call
> >>something "unstoppable" or "unfair" to justify why I could not avoid it. "Cheap" simply
> >>does not exist and I take full responsibility upon myself.
> >
> > If you're retarded enough to take "full responsiblity" for Guile's
> >WW magic throw glitch, please be my guest. If you enjoy playing against
> >a magic-throwing Guile, again, be my guest. In fact I'll be your guest.
> >Tell me where you're at, put up a stake sufficient to cover the travel,
> >and I'll be happy to magic-throw your ass to payday on WW for as long as
> >you like.
>
> Is this a challenge?
No...it's not. This god-like attitude of yours played out about a year
ago.
> Remember hot-head, I never said I would enjoy being the recipient of the magic throw.
> But I will deal with it. After all, it was my fault to put my coin in and challenge
> someone who uses the move. And I know I can use the same "move" on someone else so
> I have no regrets or complaints.
AH! Now...here comes the million dollar question! Would you play a
game with such a flaw in it if you were looking to test your skill? Why
or why not?
> >>Another quote for you, "Winner's learn, losers complain" -C62
> >
> > I thought it was "Winner's win. Loser's lose." Just because you
> >don't complain doesn't mean you can somehow climb into the winner's circle.
> >Win a tournament. Better yet, GO to a tournament. Then shoot off your
> >mouth. (although you'll find the winningest players don't bother- they
> >let the skills speak for them).
>
> Credibility is not achieved by tournaments alone. As far as my experience, it is
> not open for discussion and does not pertain to my arguments at this time. And
> don't assume anything either (squeeze, squeeze).
Gee....not only has this statement been said by "I" before, it's also
been said in another debate I had with someone long ago about Cali's SF
dominance. Dang...if only I could remember the name. :)
Oh...wait....isn't that debate on #Capcom's homepage?! Oh yeah! IT
IS!!! Heh heh heh.....
(Side note to audience: Ain't it funny how both "I" and another poster
that will remain nameless for right now have been silent throughout this
whole conversation? Makes you wonder...kinda like the whole Bruce Wayne
and Batman thing, huh?) :)
> >>You mean after you panicked kid?
> >
> > Panicking does not take 20-30 minutes, and you don't have to be
> >panicked that someone's going to expose you for a SF fraud to want to kick
> >someone off your irc channel. Please try and not be silly.
>
> If I wished to be vulgar and invite myself to be kicked, I would have done it
> immediately when I entered the channel. It took 30 minutes for someone to become
> flustered and emotional. Panic then overwhelmed this individual.
In other words, you ended up doing something you didn't want to do by
being careless. I guess that's still Tragic's fault for your
carelessness, eh?
> >>Need I any more proof of your prominent arrogance?
> >
> > If we accept the wild claim that SOMEONE knows what they're talking
> >about when it comes to SF- why are you so sure it isn't tragic? And why
> >does knowing your shit = arrogance?
>
> I am in the top 1% and an "expert" in SF. You are a scrub. There is no such things
> as "cheap". I have won all the tournaments. I kick you! Bam!
>
> That proves I know my stuff right?
No...because you can't back it up. Tragic can. You cannot dispute
against documented tournament results. You can't. They're facts. They
can't be changed. Deal with it.
> >>>>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
> >>>>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
> >
> > What "gives the audacity"? Try having collectively won pretty much
> >all of the SF tournaments there are, across the country, coast to coast
> >and inbetween too.
>
> Now try thinking how many players DO NOT attend these mediocre little tourneys.
AHA!!!! YES!!! Now I have PROOF that this is none other
than.....Dllem. Everyone has a pattern...and they fall into it
sometime. This is the EXACT same thing you tried to pull when you were
debating with me about Cali's dominance in SF. It does not work that
way. Tournaments aren't kept secret so that only certain people can
win. They are advertised by just about every way possible. They're big
events. They're designed to get everyone possible involved. If certain
people don't attend because they can't get there or don't know about
it....oh well. That's the way it goes in ANY sport. Plain and simple,
if there's someone out there that's better than Alex Valle, they need to
go to a tournament and prove it. If they can't do that, then they can't
prove it and, therefore, have no basis for saying that they're better.
In short, they don't exist.
Remember, these tournaments aren't just advertised on the 'net. They're
advertised by the arcades and the players themselves by word of mouth.
Heck, my friends and I actually go LOOKING for people that have talent
at every arcade here in San Diego whenever a tournament is coming up,
whether it's local or in LA. Why? We want the best of the best there.
So, I'm afraid that, once again, your angle is not going to work.
There may be a better basketball player in the world than Michael
Jordan, but until someone actually steps foot into Professional
Basketball and proves it, they don't exist. There may be a better wide
receiver in the world than Jerry Rice, but until someone actually steps
foot into Professional Football and proves it, they don't exist.
I could go on, but I don't want to get monotonous.
> > No need for you to kiss their asses. You live in a small world kid,
> >>there are hundreds, thousands, of players around the world who would love an oppurtunity to smash
> >>anyone who claims that they are the "cream of the crop". You're unbelievably stupid to proclaim this.
> >
> > They've HAD the opportunity to do just this. The tournaments aren't
> >some secret thing we try not to tell anyone about. They draw great players
> >from all over the country, and all over the world. Did they smash the
> >"cream of the crop"? Not yet. Keep trying.
>
> Who's "they" and who's "we"?
>
> I'll tell you..."they" are the thousands of undiscovered talent that exists throughout > the world where only a sprinkle (at most) attend "your" little tourneys.
*sigh*
You're falling right into your old pattern.
All I have to say is....the same could be said for any sport, but if
they don't step out and prove themselves, they don't exist. If they
exist, their time will come. It always works out that way.
> "We" are the arrogant 1% who claims they are the best by attending these biased and
> ridiculously minuscule contests which do not produce undisputed champions.
I guess that's why we're trying to have regional tournaments, huh?
Yeah...those are definitely biased...even though if everything goes the
way that it should if Capcom really wants to pull this whole thing off,
they'll advertise it on TV. Oh...but....wouldn't that give those
undiscovered players....*gasp*...a chance to win?
That's exactly what we're hoping. So, quit it with the biased junk.
It's not a valid argument.
> >>>>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
> >>>>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
> >>>>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
> > Well, okay then, kiddies. Take your pick. Who do you want to ask
> >for answers to SF questions. All the top tournament finishers from the
> >past 5 years or so, or Mr.mysterious C62? Nice try.
>
> Again, my experience has nothing to do with the argument at hand. I am by no means
> trying to be a teacher. I am not arrogant and have not made any boasts about myself.
REALLY???!!!! Now THERE'S a lie.
Your experience has EVERYTHING to do with this argument, especially
since you've made sure that Tragic's experience has everything to do
with it. You are not exempt from anything...ever.
As for not trying to be a teacher: Let's see....you talk down to those
that disagree with you...you give lectures about how your laws of
fighting are indisputable...sounds like a teacher to me.
As for not being arrogant, you disproved that the first time you opened
up this thread. I'm sorry, but anyone that thinks that they are above
hard facts is, without a doubt in my mind, arrogant. You, sir, fit the
bill.
> The point is that one of these kiddies may/will disagree with these self-proclaimed > "experts".
Well..duh! It happens all the time. You know what happens next? The
newbie in question gets corrected. If the newbie does not like the
advice he is given (from people that know what they're talking about and
have MUCH more quality experience, BTW), he/she has two choices: accept
or reject.
If they're bent on rejecting the advice, then they can shut the experts
up by doing only one thing: Proving them wrong by actually travelling
to play them. If they can't, then oh well...but it'll be likely that
somebody that lives near them can show them a thing or two.
> >>Your profane statements are grammitically incorrect and mean nothing. Your adolescent mind
> >>is only trying to communicate what little thoughts you have toward your surroundings and using
> >>perverse words for description only proves how immature you.
> >
> > This really stands on it's own. I would try and make fun of it, if
> >it didn't succeed wonderfully without my help. You post a grammar/english
> >flame with sentences like these? I take it you aren't a "kiddie" anymore,
> >but I'm not sure you've ever passed an english class, much less read a
> >book. Jeezus.
>
> It's "Jesus". And don't use his name in vain.
Cute. You want to be moral, yet you dismiss facts and display
arrogance. *sniff* There's that hypocritical smell again.
> >>Bwahahaha! But of course! Enough mincing of words! Let's settle this once and for all! Pway me!
> >
> >>And how do *you* suppose we can arrange such a contest? Answer the 5 W's. Then I'll
> >>give you my proposal. Will you balk on this challenge too I wonder?
> >
> > I'll be willing to bet you don't show. We've seen too many of
> >exactly your type for too many years to be taken in by your tired, tired
> >gimmicks.
>
> I've probably been here longer than you kid. However, entertain me on how you will > arrange a contest.
It's a good thing you said probably, because it makes you look only a
little less foolish than if you had left "probably" out. The fact is
that he (Seth) has been here WAAAY longer than you. Heck, longer than
me. Go ahead...play him. It won't be pretty for you at all. Trust me
on that.
> >>Unlike you, I do not cherish an on-line identity or reputation. I have a life. I only wish to speak
> >>the truth and wish to debate SF topics.
> >
> > Ah, the "having a life" card. You've now invoked nazi's, poor
> >grammar, and the fact that "you have a life" (despite the fact that you
> >scheduled your "debate" for friday night at 9pm). Those are the three
> >strikes of how to spot a retard when "debating" on the internet.
> >Congratulations.
>
> Someone groomed your ego and made you respond to my post and this is all you have to > offer? tsk..tsk I'd expect more from one of the "elite".
Yet even more proof that, yes indeedy, C62, "I", and Dllem are one in
the same. You tried to play this pathetic (yes, I said pathetic) excuse
on me in that Cali dominance thread, too. It STILL has nothing to do
with whether or not your posts are credible. It STILL has nothing to do
with whether or not you have any skill whatsoever in SF. It STILL has
nothing to do with whether or not Cali rules when it comes to SF.
BTW, ain't it amazing that you presented no facts to counter these
facts? Could it be that Seth did indeed corner you? Yep.
> >>So do not be offended that I am not talking directly to you...but through you. Your simply a martyr.
> >
> > It's "you're", grammar boy. Although there are about a million
> >other screw-ups...
>
> Oh my, don't tell me that you have nothing else to argue about except my grammar. How unfortunate.
> Please *think* a little. It's all I ask...
All this advice you give...and you don't follow any of it, yourself.
Point blank, if you simply HAVE to fault someone on something, fix
YOURSELF first. Remove the board out of your eye so that you can
actually see the speck in your neighbor's eye. (The Bible...it's
FAAAAN-tastic!)
> >>The topic is "cheap" Shall we dance? Remember?
> >
> > How can the topic be non-existant, as you claim "cheap" to be? How
> >are we supposed to know what you're talking about? If cheap doesn't refer
> >to anything real, how does asking us about it clear anything up?
>
> True SF'ers who do not believe in "cheap" would simply not have an argument. Their
> defense would simply be, "I do not believe in cheap". Period. End of discussion.
Ummm....no. You see, the way of actually convincing someone of your
point of view (or, at least, helping them to see it) is by giving
examples and actually having evidence that supports your stance.
Otherwise, like any court case with no evidence, it gets dismissed.
Even people that believe in things that they can't perceive with their
own five senses have a reason (or reasons) for it. Believing in
something for no reason is just plain silly...and futile.
> But ooops! There are some players who DO believe in "cheap". Yes?
Yeah, and...get this...we can actually back up our point. Why? For
one, we actually know the TRUE definition. For two, we use logic based
on experience.
I really haven't seen you do that at all in this thread...or any time
that you've posted as "I".
> >>OK, let's give this one more shot then...
> >
> >>I've decided to return to #capcom and give you and the channel the benefit of the doubt:
> >
> >>09/04/98 09:00PM CST
> >
> > We're on pins and needles. Will the secret identity finally be
> >revealed? Will "cheap" be finally disproven? Will anyone give a fuck?
> >Stay tuned...
>
> (squeeze, squeeze)
>
> C62
> (who is just having a good time now :-) )
Playtime is ended.
Not only have you been exposed, but your opinions have been disputed by
facts. I don't doubt that the same exact thing will happen when you
jump on #capcom and try to dispute facts with rhetoric and taunting.
Guess what? It don't work!!! (Forgive my bad English, there.)
--
Bottom Line: ('cause what'cha gonna do...when my brain full of facts,
knowledge, and experience...runs WILD on you??!!! GRRRR!!!!)
Onaje Everett teve...@pacbell.net
Meaning: The Sensitive One
IRC and ICQ Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce
IRC channel you'll most likely find me on: #capcom
Favorite website for SF info: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ (Hint, hint.)
Jenn Dolari
> But clearly, you are a scrub.
I think we should all give up and let C62 live in his own little world of
persecution. He obviously likes it enough. :)
Jenn
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHUN LI - SHEEVA - KITANA - SONYA - TANYA - MILEENA - SINDEL - CAMMY
ROSE Strength. Beauty. We have no equal in the kingdom. SAKURA
IBUKI dol...@dragondata.com ELENA
JADE http://www.dragondata.com/~dolari ATHENA
HSIEN KO Not all warriors are called "Sir!" QUEEN BEE
KING - MORRIGAN - FELICIA - LILLITH - BABY BONNIE HOOD - MAI
------------------------------------------------------------------------
poc...@my-dejanews.com
skil...@students.uiuc.edu (seth james killian) wrote:
>
> >I did indeed say the former but not the latter. When I expressed my views, it was you who
> >heckled me and called me a scrub for not believing in your "expert" opinions.
>
> But clearly, you are a scrub. And as many a better scrub has done
> before you, you have joined the ranks of those who have been humiliated by
> their betters here on the newsgroup. Here's you: "I'm Joey Fuckface and
> I've got something to say! Now everybody listen to me, because although I
> hide behind an (intriguing, and original. Really!) veil of secrecy, and
> no one's ever heard of me, and I've never been to a tournament, me and my
> friends are really really good (really!), and I want to pick a fight over
> a vague and uninteresting term that no one who's any good uses anyway
> except as a joke, and which was debated to death over 6 years ago (here
> on this very newsgroup), which I would know nothing about because I like
> to shoot off my fool mouth instead of shutting up and listening to those
> who've proven their skills and knowledge. And I'm a big stupid moron with
> a fat butt, and my butt smells, and also I like to kiss my own butt."
> Here's tragic (half an hour later): "Um, you're kicked."
>
> >Crystal?
>
> I hope so.
>
Ya know, the 1st post of this thread I've read disturbs me. I decide to
check it since it's been goin' on way too long & maybe the off topic sub.
might be interesting. Turns out this thread is exactly what I thought it was
about. Here's the disturbing part. This sh*t is so damn funny I might have
missed a new episode of south park for it. Alas I have not the time to enjoy
such hilarious folly:(
> >(sigh) Kids these days...
>
> >As I mentioned before, I have surpassed this piddling experience and whatever detailed
> >verbage that was exchanged is immaterial.
>
> You've "surpassed" it by posting yet another multi-hundred line
> post where you repeat essentially exactly what you said before? Were I
> less of a pimply-faced "kid", I might confuse your actions for those of
> someone who's quite stuck on something, or whose widdle feewings had been
> hurt.
>
> > Let us review your crimes:
> >1. Inappropiate profanity - PROVEN by your own admission
Inappropriate? This guys funny. These days the appropriation of foul
language is determined by the conversation & the forum in which it is used.
If I'm not mistaken; you're new here. With that being said; how would you
know what would be appropriate on #capcom? I'm not trying to be
argumentative I just would like to show you in a friendly manner how you're
coming off. You can't just go to China & decide the government should allow
you to have as many kids as you'd like. #capcom, you might say is the
Cannon's room. They decide who gets op status & what is appropriate or
inappropriate in their forum. Why don't you create your own? ;c) Then you
could then be the judge of what's inappropriate there.
>
> Well, you seem about as dim as the average B-law school graduate,
> and fixated with the legal system, so you should probably note that it
> was only "profanity" was proven. It's inappropriateness is another
> question altogether. The swearing flows pretty freely around here, and
> God hasn't smitten anyone for their ludeness just yet. Relax.
>
> >2. Ignorance - PROVEN with unwarranted claims and accusations about my person
>
> Pot. Kettle. Black.
Well, you know....:)
>
> >3. Arrogance - PROVEN with many self-centered, unsubstantiated claims (ie. Top 1%, "expert")
For this statement to be substantiated you would have to give your definition
of "arrogance". For myself, if you are good you can still be humble 7 say
that you're good. Arrogance to me is when people make claims with minimal
testing to back their claims. Whether Trajic is an "expert" or not doesn't
matter. He could be the biggest (I seem to recall myself promising not to
use the s word) skill-play-impaired;c) player in the country. Fact is he's
been among the best & has seen enough to know what he's talking about. &
probably could only be challenged by someone who has placed in more tourneys
than he has which isn't easy.
>
> Even you should know that there are legally definable "experts", and
> when it comes to SF and fighting games, tragic's resume qualifies him as one,
> in no uncertain terms. Tragic's not arrogant, just good. And unsubstantiated?
> Read his published stuff. Check the tournament winners. Eat ass.
>
> >4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
> >5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
>
> Nice bit of rhetorical garbage here. Try again.
>
> >GUILTY!
Whoa! Buddy. Is this some past life regression? Seriously, there's no need
to shout. A word of advice that might help & make you feel better whether
you're right or wrong...People will believe what they want to believe
regardless of anything once the mode is turned to argument. It doesn't
matter who's right at this point no one will buckle unless out of frustration
or boredom.
> So what? Off with his head? Sit down, little man.
>
> >Heh, maybe one more...
> >6. Adolescence - PROVEN with all those glistening pimples on your little face :-)
>
> Your zit-fixation is starting to creep us all out. Just drop this
> one.
>
That sounds odd to me also. Just MO.
> >"Cheap" and "Cheese" do not exist. Now is your oppurtunity to convince me
> >otherwise. Please continue...
>
> Why in the fuck is it anyone's job to convince you of something
> no one even cares about, or takes seriously?
> "Elephants" do not exist. Now is your opportunity to convince me
> otherwise. Please contiue....
> Being an idiot and demanding people show you why isn't hard. It
> isn't fun. It's a waste of time. Getting the picture?
>
> >>Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
> >>simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
> >>sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
>
> >It's called "class". Something you do not apparently have. Try going to court
> >and argue while sprewing your profane flith. Grow up kid.
>
> Yes, if anything, you have established that you are a classy guy.
> And throughout it all, I was always impressed by your highly mature
> and ed-u-macated ability to refrain from the swearing of us hillbillies.
> You may spew piles of crap and suck at SF, but at least you don't swear
> while you're at it.
>
Damn! I always heard you could talk sh*t(tryin' to refrain), but I never
heard it. You're damn good Seth. Makes me almost want to go back to smack
talkin'.
> >I suggested there was no need for insults. Yet, you continued your emotional rampage.
> >This is fact. Remember now?
>
> If there's one thing that usenet and irc make abundantly clear, it's
> that insults are a hell of a lot better at keeping people in line than
> anything like argumentation. And don't try and take the high-ground on
> this one either- insulting people who are beyond argument has a long
> history from Socrates to Madeline Albright.
>
Seth, is that a quote? I remember hearing it before. If I'm mistaken I
hereby grant you the 1st & probably last "Apoc Quote of the Month Award".
That was pretty bad *ss.
> >Oh? Ha! I definitely cope with everything in the game and never complain. I need not call
> >something "unstoppable" or "unfair" to justify why I could not avoid it. "Cheap" simply
> >does not exist and I take full responsibility upon myself.
>
> If you're retarded enough to take "full responsiblity" for Guile's
> WW magic throw glitch, please be my guest. If you enjoy playing against
> a magic-throwing Guile, again, be my guest. In fact I'll be your guest.
> Tell me where you're at, put up a stake sufficient to cover the travel,
> and I'll be happy to magic-throw your ass to payday on WW for as long as
> you like.
>
> >Another quote for you, "Winner's learn, losers complain" -C62
>
> I thought it was "Winner's win. Loser's lose." Just because you
> don't complain doesn't mean you can somehow climb into the winner's circle.
> Win a tournament. Better yet, GO to a tournament. Then shoot off your
> mouth. (although you'll find the winningest players don't bother- they
> let the skills speak for them).
>
> >And no, I am not complaining to you, #capcom, or whatever. I am a winner because
> >I am "dealing with it" >:-)
>
> No one here is going to confuse you for a "winner" for a long time.
>
> >"expert" eh?
> >What is above expert? Master? God? Hrmmm?
>
> Umm, howsabout ninja! Or Ronin! Cool!
Wow! Ninjas above expert?! I knew peeps were givin' me props but, now I
feel all the more special:) Is Ronin above Ninja? If so I must work harder
to become RONIN!!! ( for those who don't know me that was just some extremely
DRY humor. I try not to be too humorous when posting on a sensitive thread.)
>
> >Thus, biased opinions and apprehension to discuss "sensitive" topics.
>
> Umm, there was a conversation about ass-wiping not too long ago.
> If that isn't a sensitive a topic, I don't want to go any further.
>
> >>it was YOUR arrogance, ignorance, and
> >>general scrubby AOL debate style that caused you to get kick/banned
> >>20-30 minutes after you started your spew.
>
> >You mean after you panicked kid?
Aight bro, if u gonna be callin' anybodies "kid' you gotz ta make sure da
vernacular matches da rest 'o da post. So what I'm knayin'. Cuz like dat it
sounds like u be tryin' ta gets ruff & sh*t. & fools here be goin' roguish on
dat *ss for shizznit likes dat.
>
> Panicking does not take 20-30 minutes, and you don't have to be
> panicked that someone's going to expose you for a SF fraud to want to kick
> someone off your irc channel. Please try and not be silly.
>
> >Our discussion is here now and I've drawn you out like a fish out of water. As I mentioned
> >before, watching you dangle helplessly from my lure gives me great satisfaction. :-)
>
> No one wants to hear what you've got dangling.
>
> >(snicker) More ignorance? You are getting monotonous.
>
> You aren't getting monotonous, you've been that way for a while now.
> Be quiet. Learn something.
>
> >>I'm a SF expert in the sense that I know what I am talking about.
>
> >Need I any more proof of your prominent arrogance?
Once again, the definition of "arrogance" is obviously not shared here. Seth
has proven himself as an "expert" in pressured tourney play. It's not
arrogant to claim a fact. I believe he took 1st in th ST tourney a month or
two ago in the Chitown annual. His "opinions" & "claims" have sold
cornerstones.
>
> If we accept the wild claim that SOMEONE knows what they're talking
> about when it comes to SF- why are you so sure it isn't tragic? And why
> does knowing your shit = arrogance?
Exactly.
>
> >Like Rudolf the red-nosed Reindeer, your pimple on your nose glows magnificiently...Ho, Ho, Ho.
>
> Dude, that was actually Rudolph's nose. I don't think reindeer get
> acne. And again, drop the zit-thing.
>
> >>>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
> >>>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
>
> What "gives the audacity"? Try having collectively won pretty much
> all of the SF tournaments there are, across the country, coast to coast
> and inbetween too.
>
> No need for you to kiss their asses. You live in a small world kid,
> >there are hundreds, thousands, of players around the world who would love an oppurtunity to smash
> >anyone who claims that they are the "cream of the crop". You're unbelievably stupid to proclaim this.
You're speaking out of arrogance & ignorance now IMO. I myself have been the
cream of the crop at one time or another & I have travelled across the
country much the same as Mr. Killian here. If there are better players out
there then they've been missing the sf oppurtunities of a lifetime. Local
comp cannot compare to playing the likes of
Alex Valle, Tomo Ohira, Eddie Lee, Michael Zavar, "jumpsuit " Jesse
Cardinas", Jeff Schaefer, Mike Watson, Martin Vega Thao Duong, Joel Frank,
James Romedy, John Choi, Tony Ngo, Jason Nelson, Jason Cole, Omar Deloney,
Seth Killian, David Dial, Rob Ingram, Mark Acero, Bob Painter, James Chen,
Julien Beasley, Kris Grytebust, Javi Moreno, Juan Gonzalez, George Ngo,
Gerald Abraham, Jason Wilson, Tomas Osaki, Joe Jennings, Eddie Tang, Geoff
Arnold, Henry Cen.. The list goes on. ( I realize I could think of another
50 names that have been on top in the past 9 years so I had to stop if anyone
is offended by their name missing; I assure you it was due to time
constraints & not your skill lvl. If anyone would like I could compile a
list of the best players nationwide who have been a tournament champion or
top 5 consistently at one point or another. Lemme know.)
>
> They've HAD the opportunity to do just this. The tournaments aren't
> some secret thing we try not to tell anyone about. They draw great players
> from all over the country, and all over the world. Did they smash the
> "cream of the crop"? Not yet. Keep trying.
>
> >>>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
> >>>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
> >>>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
> Well, okay then, kiddies. Take your pick. Who do you want to ask
> for answers to SF questions. All the top tournament finishers from the
> past 5 years or so, or Mr.mysterious C62? Nice try.
>
> >Your profane statements are grammitically incorrect and mean nothing.
Stop. This isn't english class. The only thing necessary here is that your
statements are clearly understood. This group is for fun & for exchanges of
sf or related issues. Not for any English professor to check. Anyone can
run a spell check yadda yadda yadda. Relax. This is supposed to be fun.
Allow others to have theirs w/o unnecessary scrutiny.
If I wasn't gonna be in Ca to grab Calipower & his girl & Flipmeign for
Jesse(my girlfriend who kicks MUCH *ss on sf) & her birthday party. The big
21 in Vegas!!!!
Any other great players want to show up to enjoy the city(the weather is
actually cool now.)& try & give my girl a good SF beatin' over some brews?
Lemme know;c)
> Seth Killian
>
Apoc.
C62
In article <6smscr$rif$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, skil...@students.uiuc.edu says...
>
>C...@C62.COM (C62) writes:
>
>>I did indeed say the former but not the latter. When I expressed my views, it was
>>you who heckled me and called me a scrub for not believing in your "expert" opinions.
>
> But clearly, you are a scrub. And as many a better scrub has done
>before you, you have joined the ranks of those who have been humiliated by
>their betters here on the newsgroup. Here's you: "I'm Joey Fuckface and
>I've got something to say! Now everybody listen to me, because although I
>hide behind an (intriguing, and original. Really!) veil of secrecy, and
>no one's ever heard of me, and I've never been to a tournament, me and my
>friends are really really good (really!), and I want to pick a fight over
>a vague and uninteresting term that no one who's any good uses anyway
>except as a joke, and which was debated to death over 6 years ago (here
>on this very newsgroup), which I would know nothing about because I like
>to shoot off my fool mouth instead of shutting up and listening to those
>who've proven their skills and knowledge. And I'm a big stupid moron with
>a fat butt, and my butt smells, and also I like to kiss my own butt."
> Here's tragic (half an hour later): "Um, you're kicked."
Congratulations! Did you make up this entire story by yourself? Your ignorance
is just as prominent as...(squeeze, squeeze)...that pimple on your little nose.
>>As I mentioned before, I have surpassed this piddling experience and whatever detailed
>>verbage that was exchanged is immaterial.
>
> You've "surpassed" it by posting yet another multi-hundred line
>post where you repeat essentially exactly what you said before? Were I
>less of a pimply-faced "kid", I might confuse your actions for those of
>someone who's quite stuck on something, or whose widdle feewings had been
>hurt.
As I mentioned many times, I am enjoying my bashing of an arrogant "expert"
who says he is in the "top 1%". Forgive me, it's getting addicting...
Have I been a baaad putty cat? Hrmmm....
>> Let us review your crimes:
>>1. Inappropiate profanity - PROVEN by your own admission
>
> Well, you seem about as dim as the average B-law school graduate,
>and fixated with the legal system, so you should probably note that it
>was only "profanity" was proven. It's inappropriateness is another
>question altogether. The swearing flows pretty freely around here, and
>God hasn't smitten anyone for their ludeness just yet. Relax.
Whatever you say Joey Fuckface...
What was it that someone mentioned earlier...oh yeah, "treat people as you wish
to be treated".
>>2. Ignorance - PROVEN with unwarranted claims and accusations about my person
>
> Pot. Kettle. Black.
You mean just like your first paragraph in your post?
>>3. Arrogance - PROVEN with many self-centered, unsubstantiated claims (ie. Top 1%, "expert")
>
> Even you should know that there are legally definable "experts", and
>when it comes to SF and fighting games, tragic's resume qualifies him as one,
>in no uncertain terms. Tragic's not arrogant, just good. And unsubstantiated?
>Read his published stuff. Check the tournament winners. Eat ass.
It is always amusing to hear the peculiar fetishes one blurts out when one becomes angry.
>>4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
>>5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
>
> Nice bit of rhetorical garbage here. Try again.
4. Dictatorship - PROVEN by prohibiting legitamate discussion on #capcom
5. Inexperience - PROVEN by your belief in "cheap"
>
>>GUILTY!
>
> So what? Off with his head? Sit down, little man.
>
>>Heh, maybe one more...
>>6. Adolescence - PROVEN with all those glistening pimples on your little face :-)
>
> Your zit-fixation is starting to creep us all out. Just drop this one.
While playing fighter games, a player should always find his opponent's weakness and
exploit it. Don't you agree? (squeeze, squeeze)
>>"Cheap" and "Cheese" do not exist. Now is your oppurtunity to convince me
>>otherwise. Please continue...
>
> Why in the fuck is it anyone's job to convince you of something
>no one even cares about, or takes seriously?
> "Elephants" do not exist. Now is your opportunity to convince me
>otherwise. Please contiue....
> Being an idiot and demanding people show you why isn't hard. It
>isn't fun. It's a waste of time. Getting the picture?
Just answer this question for me: Do you believe in "cheap"?
>>>Also... I do recall calling you a fucking moron. The problem? You
>>>simply proved it to me. And? If someone uses a vulgarity in a
>>>sentence... does the fact of the matter change? I didn't think so.
>
>>It's called "class". Something you do not apparently have. Try going to court
>>and argue while sprewing your profane flith. Grow up kid.
>
> Yes, if anything, you have established that you are a classy guy.
>And throughout it all, I was always impressed by your highly mature
>and ed-u-macated ability to refrain from the swearing of us hillbillies.
>You may spew piles of crap and suck at SF, but at least you don't swear
>while you're at it.
Your last sentence, of course, is pure ignorance. Despite your sarcasm, debating is
just as artistic as playing video games. A person who screams and swears is just
making noise. I prefer to kill them with "kindness" and "subtleness".
>>I suggested there was no need for insults. Yet, you continued your emotional rampage.
>>This is fact. Remember now?
>
> If there's one thing that usenet and irc make abundantly clear, it's
>that insults are a hell of a lot better at keeping people in line than
>anything like argumentation. And don't try and take the high-ground on
>this one either- insulting people who are beyond argument has a long
>history from Socrates to Madeline Albright.
"Speak loudly with a loud stick" works in some situations where the environment is not
as controlled as in court. In these instances, the best argument would indeed be a forceful
approach. We see this throughout history in wars.
Now let's apply this to a supposely controlled chatroom called #capcom. The reason for my
visit was to discuss and debate the controversial word - "cheap". My intellectual aggression
must have sparked tragic's emotional weaknesses. He felt threatened, and decided to end the
debate with a press of a panic button.
This is why I brought this discussion to this ng and why we are conversing...because someone
panicked. This thread was a second chance for everybody involved but unfortunately became
a flame-festival. Therefore, I will re-visit #capcom to give the channel another chance.
>>Oh? Ha! I definitely cope with everything in the game and never complain. I need not call
>>something "unstoppable" or "unfair" to justify why I could not avoid it. "Cheap" simply
>>does not exist and I take full responsibility upon myself.
>
> If you're retarded enough to take "full responsiblity" for Guile's
>WW magic throw glitch, please be my guest. If you enjoy playing against
>a magic-throwing Guile, again, be my guest. In fact I'll be your guest.
>Tell me where you're at, put up a stake sufficient to cover the travel,
>and I'll be happy to magic-throw your ass to payday on WW for as long as
>you like.
Is this a challenge?
Remember hot-head, I never said I would enjoy being the recipient of the magic throw.
But I will deal with it. After all, it was my fault to put my coin in and challenge
someone who uses the move. And I know I can use the same "move" on someone else so
I have no regrets or complaints.
>>Another quote for you, "Winner's learn, losers complain" -C62
>
> I thought it was "Winner's win. Loser's lose." Just because you
>don't complain doesn't mean you can somehow climb into the winner's circle.
>Win a tournament. Better yet, GO to a tournament. Then shoot off your
>mouth. (although you'll find the winningest players don't bother- they
>let the skills speak for them).
Credibility is not achieved by tournaments alone. As far as my experience, it is
not open for discussion and does not pertain to my arguments at this time. And
don't assume anything either (squeeze, squeeze).
>>And no, I am not complaining to you, #capcom, or whatever. I am a winner because
>>I am "dealing with it" >:-)
>
> No one here is going to confuse you for a "winner" for a long time.
>
>>"expert" eh?
>>What is above expert? Master? God? Hrmmm?
>
> Umm, howsabout ninja! Or Ronin! Cool!
>
>>Thus, biased opinions and apprehension to discuss "sensitive" topics.
>
> Umm, there was a conversation about ass-wiping not too long ago.
>If that isn't a sensitive a topic, I don't want to go any further.
>
>>>it was YOUR arrogance, ignorance, and
>>>general scrubby AOL debate style that caused you to get kick/banned
>>>20-30 minutes after you started your spew.
>
>>You mean after you panicked kid?
>
> Panicking does not take 20-30 minutes, and you don't have to be
>panicked that someone's going to expose you for a SF fraud to want to kick
>someone off your irc channel. Please try and not be silly.
If I wished to be vulgar and invite myself to be kicked, I would have done it
immediately when I entered the channel. It took 30 minutes for someone to become
flustered and emotional. Panic then overwhelmed this individual.
>>Our discussion is here now and I've drawn you out like a fish out of water. As I mentioned
>>before, watching you dangle helplessly from my lure gives me great satisfaction. :-)
>
> No one wants to hear what you've got dangling.
>
>>(snicker) More ignorance? You are getting monotonous.
>
> You aren't getting monotonous, you've been that way for a while now.
>Be quiet. Learn something.
>
>>>I'm a SF expert in the sense that I know what I am talking about.
>
>>Need I any more proof of your prominent arrogance?
>
> If we accept the wild claim that SOMEONE knows what they're talking
>about when it comes to SF- why are you so sure it isn't tragic? And why
>does knowing your shit = arrogance?
I am in the top 1% and an "expert" in SF. You are a scrub. There is no such things
as "cheap". I have won all the tournaments. I kick you! Bam!
That proves I know my stuff right?
>>Like Rudolf the red-nosed Reindeer, your pimple on your nose glows magnificiently...Ho, Ho, Ho.
>
> Dude, that was actually Rudolph's nose. I don't think reindeer get
>acne. And again, drop the zit-thing.
>
>>>>This perfectly exemplifies my point. Top 1% my ass. What gives the audacity to make such an
>>>>arrogant clam? Now this is funny!
>
> What "gives the audacity"? Try having collectively won pretty much
>all of the SF tournaments there are, across the country, coast to coast
>and inbetween too.
Now try thinking how many players DO NOT attend these mediocre little tourneys.
> No need for you to kiss their asses. You live in a small world kid,
>>there are hundreds, thousands, of players around the world who would love an oppurtunity to smash
>>anyone who claims that they are the "cream of the crop". You're unbelievably stupid to proclaim this.
>
> They've HAD the opportunity to do just this. The tournaments aren't
>some secret thing we try not to tell anyone about. They draw great players
>from all over the country, and all over the world. Did they smash the
>"cream of the crop"? Not yet. Keep trying.
Who's "they" and who's "we"?
I'll tell you..."they" are the thousands of undiscovered talent that exists throughout the world where only
a sprinkle (at most) attend "your" little tourneys.
"We" are the arrogant 1% who claims they are the best by attending these biased and ridiculously
minuscule contests which do not produce undisputed champions.
You are blinded with your own arrogance.
>>>>Remember this kiddies, you are talking to the top 1% SF'ers on #capcom. Don't bother to argue with
>>>>them because they are top 1% and always right because they say they are top 1%! And if you
>>>>disagree, you will be banned, so be like sheep and obey your SF gods on #capcom.
> Well, okay then, kiddies. Take your pick. Who do you want to ask
>for answers to SF questions. All the top tournament finishers from the
>past 5 years or so, or Mr.mysterious C62? Nice try.
Again, my experience has nothing to do with the argument at hand. I am by no means trying to be
a teacher. I am not arrogant and have not made any boasts about myself.
The point is that one of these kiddies may/will disagree with these self-proclaimed "experts".
They will be heard...death to Ceaser!
>>Your profane statements are grammitically incorrect and mean nothing. Your adolescent mind
>>is only trying to communicate what little thoughts you have toward your surroundings and using
>>perverse words for description only proves how immature you.
>
> This really stands on it's own. I would try and make fun of it, if
>it didn't succeed wonderfully without my help. You post a grammar/english
>flame with sentences like these? I take it you aren't a "kiddie" anymore,
>but I'm not sure you've ever passed an english class, much less read a
>book. Jeezus.
It's "Jesus". And don't use his name in vain.
>>>If you judge me by my actions... then come play me. I'm always up for
>>>a challenge.
>
>>Bwahahaha! But of course! Enough mincing of words! Let's settle this once and for all! Pway me!
>
>>And how do *you* suppose we can arrange such a contest? Answer the 5 W's. Then I'll
>>give you my proposal. Will you balk on this challenge too I wonder?
>
> I'll be willing to bet you don't show. We've seen too many of
>exactly your type for too many years to be taken in by your tired, tired
>gimmicks.
I've probably been here longer than you kid. However, entertain me on how you will arrange a contest.
>>Unlike you, I do not cherish an on-line identity or reputation. I have a life. I only wish to speak
>>the truth and wish to debate SF topics.
>
> Ah, the "having a life" card. You've now invoked nazi's, poor
>grammar, and the fact that "you have a life" (despite the fact that you
>scheduled your "debate" for friday night at 9pm). Those are the three
>strikes of how to spot a retard when "debating" on the internet.
>Congratulations.
Someone groomed your ego and made you respond to my post and this is all you have to offer?
tsk..tsk I'd expect more from one of the "elite".
>>So do not be offended that I am not talking directly to you...but through you. Your simply a martyr.
>
> It's "you're", grammar boy. Although there are about a million
>other screw-ups...
Oh my, don't tell me that you have nothing else to argue about except my grammar. How unfortunate.
Please *think* a little. It's all I ask...
>>The topic is "cheap" Shall we dance? Remember?
>
> How can the topic be non-existant, as you claim "cheap" to be? How
>are we supposed to know what you're talking about? If cheap doesn't refer
>to anything real, how does asking us about it clear anything up?
True SF'ers who do not believe in "cheap" would simply not have an argument. Their defense
would simply be, "I do not believe in cheap". Period. End of discussion.
But ooops! There are some players who DO believe in "cheap". Yes?
>>OK, let's give this one more shot then...
>
>>I've decided to return to #capcom and give you and the channel the benefit of the doubt:
>
>>09/04/98 09:00PM CST
>
> We're on pins and needles. Will the secret identity finally be
>revealed? Will "cheap" be finally disproven? Will anyone give a fuck?
>Stay tuned...
(squeeze, squeeze)
Chocobo
all this time retyping the same argument over and over in reply to
everyone who disagrees with him. I think that's pretty funny. If only he
would waste his time by cutting out the parts of the posts he's not
replying to...
glitch
tragic
>you spend as much time as possible to *try* to refute my accusations upon you and
>express why you believe in "cheap".
As I have... many times. Your monotonous replies simply prove you are
an idiot.
I have refuted your claimed many times, over many posts... all with
backup by other played in this newsgroup. We have all yet to see one
post in your defense. Coincidence? I think not. You lose.
>Conversely, expect me to give it my all to tear down your squabble. I have all the
>incentive I need, because between you and I... you know I am right.
Between you, and I, and everyone else that has posted to this
thread... you know you are fighting for a lost cause. You've lost...
just admit it.
>Remember, it is you who is guilty of the crimes charged against you, which you obviously
>cannot deny and convienently avoided. As I mentioned before, I'm simply enjoying
>my bashing of you as do many others who despise "arrogant" players who claim that they are
>in the top 1% in the world. For those silent lurkers who had run-ins with arrogant players
>like this(who think they are the "best") at your local arcade, this persecution of tragic
>is your retribution!
I avoided? You are wrong. At least 4 or 5 times I have replied to your
ignorant posts... disclaiming everything you had to say... except for
of course my use of profanity. If that's a crime... you got me. Other
than that... you have nothing.
Also, as I have stated numerous times... I never once said I was in
the top %1. It's obvious you don't read my replies... as you just wait
to see my nick appear in the "from" column... so as to quickly throw
out more BS for the hell of it. That's ok too... but seriously, you
are making yourself look like more and more of an idiot with every
post. You really should quit while oyu are only a bit behind. I
suppose it's too late. My condolences.
>The channel is indeed meager and appears difficult to justify discussion other than that of
>casual social convention. However, there have been some inquisitive readers who wish to know
>how they can "join" the channel. I recommend #capcom to put on their best behavior, otherwise
>newcomers will only witness just another episode of Beavis and Butthead. To this end,
>this thread squeezes an ounce of decency.
The channel is meager... yet it still attracts scrubs of your caliber.
Not bad I guess.
As for future patrons... point your IRC client to Efnet #capcom. Also,
take a clue from this public humilation that is being doled out to C62
here... and don't come in with an arrogant / ignorant demeanor. If you
are all up for a good debate and or conversation with the majority of
the USA's tournament provent players... come on in.
>Oh, tragic, keep your finger on the panic button scrub -->O<--
>(shrug) It's the best you can do...
Your fixation problem has become increasingly pathetic. You argue with
nothing, then say "panic button" and "emotional" as some form of
justifications for your points. You are a loser. You've lost this
thread. You will most doubtedly lose every other thread you debate in.
And you have become a laughingstock. Not bad for a person of your
credentials. Realize... you are the scrub... and all posts concenring
this thread (other than your feeble attempts) confirm it. You lose.
>C62
>(who never ducks at challenges, but loses them every time)
tragic... the undisputed heavyweight champ of C62's soul.
You've lost. Give up. You can't win.
Cheers scrub.