which is superior: NeoGeo or CPS2 ?
Patrick2480
Gregory_D
Patrick2480 <patri...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010513020700...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> ?
Although I enjoy many CPS2 games, I think Neo Geo has a much larger
selection and most of that selection is of high quality. It's hard to
compare.
GregoryD
Shiranui Gen-An
"Gregory_D" <br...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oNuL6.71595$2U.32...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
finalatomicbuster
used... I know that doesn't mean anything, it just could be that the
developers for that platform don't like switching hardware. But what is its
resolution? I've never seen a KOF game look as nice as even the older SF
games...
I think as far as color depth goes, CPS2 is better. At least thats the way
it looks. I'm comparing things like MSH and Darkstalkers to KOF and the
like. Also it seems CPS2 has resolution beat as well. But neither have
produced anything amazing as far as sprite manipulation goes. I haven't seen
any Mode 7 type things (unless you incude SF2 bg as mode 7... some had that
effect I believe) or sprite scaling... Sound wise, I think that CPS2 is also
beat. But this is debatable seeing as the NeoGeo has so much more ram... I
dunno, I'm guessing all of this. I only posted cos I wanted to know what the
res of NG was! ^_^
Matt Greer
news:epind9...@news.isa.net.au...
> (unless you incude SF2 bg as mode 7... some had that
> effect I believe) or sprite scaling...
The MVS has the whole wizz bang of stuff, scaling, rotating, distorting,
etc. Just doesn't have true transparency (although it's been well simulated
in some games). Which is why most MVS fighters scale in and out (SS, AOF,
Lastblade, etc) while no CPS2 fighters do.
> Sound wise, I think that CPS2 is also
> beat. But this is debatable seeing as the NeoGeo has so much more ram...
Both have piddle RAM. The MVS has 64k of RAM, and I'm not sure what the
CPS2's is, but it's equally as pitiful. ROM based systems don't need much
RAM.
But I'll take SNK's composers over Capcom's anyday, regardless of the
hardware :)
> I
> dunno, I'm guessing all of this. I only posted cos I wanted to know what
the
> res of NG was! ^_^
320x224, 12 bit color (4096 colors on the screen at a time, although most
games use 256 colors).
I don't know much about the CPS2, but my hunch is it's slightly more
powerful.
And KOF is not a good measuring stick of the MVS. For whatever reason SNK
never pushed that series graphically. Lastblade, Garou, AOF3, Pulstar, etc
are much better indications of what the MVS can do.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
finalatomicbuster
of great SNK games came back to my mind!!! :)
OK, AOF, LB, SS and MOTW are all great examples of what MVS can do. I take
back some remakes I made that may be out of line earlier.
Are you sure it only has 64K?!?!?! I suppose being rom based doesn't
require much ram... I always thought that NG had more ram than CPS2, maybe
it was actual cartridge size I was thinking of...
And you are right, KOF isn't a good game to compare this sort of thing with.
As far as looks and effects go, I think I will hand to SNK with the AOF, LB,
SS, and Motw games. Maybe not so much AOF... but thats a personal note.
Matt Greer
> And you are right, KOF isn't a good game to compare this sort of thing
with.
> As far as looks and effects go, I think I will hand to SNK with the AOF,
LB,
> SS, and Motw games. Maybe not so much AOF... but thats a personal note.
Well, I specifically said AOF3. Which has absolutely incredible graphics and
animation that rivals SF3, back in 1996. AOF3, despite being 5 years old, is
still one of the best looking Neo games ever made.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
finalatomicbuster
Patrick2480
>hardware :)
>
i agree with that one. I just love the original PaoPao stage music, Cd quality
and the first Art of Fighting stage, and Terry's stage in FF Special. Capcoms
composers are good too not to take anything way from them. perfect example are
the bullfighter Vega stage, and Mbisons thailand bell stage, Ryu stage(I prefer
the original SF2 versions), and Akumas music in SSF2T.
(e)magius
> AOF3... I don't think I've seen that yet. Is the ROM for it out somewhere?
I wouldn't know about the ROM, but I personally felt AoF3 was a waste of
time. Sure, it was better than AoF1&2 graphically, but it played like
crap. I don't feel the animation was CPS3 level, either, as Matt claims.
Best,
--Imad "(e)magius" Hussain
_____________________________________________________________________
"That... is proof positive of my assertion. You are so convinced that you
believe only what you believe you believe, that you remain utterly blind
to what you _really_ believe without believing you believe it." -- Orson
Scott Card, _Shadow of the Hegemon_
_____________________________________________________________________
djEvsky
> AOF3... I don't think I've seen that yet. Is the ROM for it out somewhere?
ClassicGaming.com has it:
http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/roms/neogeo.ArtofFighting333400.shtml
-------
Charles
ICQ: 109005534
Ryo
news:9dnk86$6f2$1...@bob.news.rcn.net:
> "finalatomicbuster" <captain...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:epind9...@news.isa.net.au...
>
>> (unless you incude SF2 bg as mode 7... some had that
>> effect I believe) or sprite scaling...
>
> The MVS has the whole wizz bang of stuff, scaling, rotating,
> distorting, etc. Just doesn't have true transparency (although it's
> been well simulated in some games). Which is why most MVS fighters
> scale in and out (SS, AOF, Lastblade, etc) while no CPS2 fighters do.
>
>> Sound wise, I think that CPS2 is also
>> beat. But this is debatable seeing as the NeoGeo has so much more
>> ram...
Sound system on CPS-2 is better, although the NG composer did nice jobs
during FFS, AOF1/2, SS1 time. Now OSTs from SNK are 99% crap, the only
exception would be Garou:MotW...Capcom work is VERY variable, can rank crap
(sfz2 OST, the AST kicks howerver), average (SFZ3, MSF), great (VH, VSAV,
MSH)...
> Both have piddle RAM. The MVS has 64k of RAM, and I'm not sure what the
> CPS2's is, but it's equally as pitiful. ROM based systems don't need
> much RAM.
>
> But I'll take SNK's composers over Capcom's anyday, regardless of the
> hardware :)
>
>> I
>> dunno, I'm guessing all of this. I only posted cos I wanted to know
>> what the res of NG was! ^_^
>
> 320x224, 12 bit color (4096 colors on the screen at a time, although
> most games use 256 colors).
>
CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224, 12 bit, but
apparently very rarely the full color are used...Side note: on the Saturn,
the capcom CPS-2 conversions resolution is 352x224, but the object (sprites
and backgound parts) size is the same, resulting in the "fat" graphics
effects some reported (Tempora?).
Memory wise, the CPS-2 has 32 mbytes limit, while apparently the NG can
address something like infinite....
> I don't know much about the CPS2, but my hunch is it's slightly more
> powerful.
I think the CPS-2 can manipulate more objects without slowdowns, just doing
qcf+C, f+D with K' in kof99 slowdown the NG...
Ethan Hammond
If so then Neo Geo is obviously more powerful than CPS2.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Matt Greer
news:Pine.SOL.4.33.01051...@herald.cc.purdue.edu...
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, finalatomicbuster wrote:
>
> > AOF3... I don't think I've seen that yet. Is the ROM for it out
somewhere?
>
> I wouldn't know about the ROM, but I personally felt AoF3 was a waste of
> time.
No one is talking about gameplay. This is a thread about the technical
abilities of the CPS2 vs MVS. Yes, AOF3 plays like a turd, but thats not the
point at all.
> Sure, it was better than AoF1&2 graphically, but it played like
> crap.
Oh come on. That's like saying a Ferrari is faster than an Escort. It's a
gorgeous game.
http://www.neogeoforlife.com/reviews/Art%20Of%20Fighting%203_files/additiona
lscreenshots.html
> I don't feel the animation was CPS3 level, either, as Matt claims.
It's been a while, but this was debated quite a bit on the Neo ML.
Unfortunately RipsRus appears to be down. They're the only site I know of
that has AOF3 sprite rips. I remember comparing the sprite rips to SF3 (not
2i or 3s, which I never said) quite favorably.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
Matt Greer
news:Xns90A1C52DFF68...@213.228.0.132...
> CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224
The Neo Geo is 320x224. If nothing else take a screenshot of a game from an
emu and throw it into photoshop. It will come up to that size.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
Matt Greer
news:3B0060...@worldnet.att.net...
> Was the same Neo Geo used to make Mark of the Wolves as all the other
games?
> If so then Neo Geo is obviously more powerful than CPS2.
>
powerful. SNK tends to push their hardware to the max (the Neo originally
competed against the CPS1). Capcom tends to use hardware for a few years
then upgrade. If they pushed the CPS2 to its limits, who knows what it could
do. In all the time SNK has been using the Neo, Capcom has had the CPS1,
CPS2, CPS3 and Naomi.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
Ethan Hammond
>
> "Ethan Hammond" <esha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3B0060...@worldnet.att.net..
> games?
> > If so then Neo Geo is obviously more powerful than CPS2.
> >
> Yes. MOTW is on the Neo. But that doesn't necessarily mean the Neo is more
> powerful. SNK tends to push their hardware to the max (the Neo originally
> competed against the CPS1). Capcom tends to use hardware for a few years
> then upgrade. If they pushed the CPS2 to its limits, who knows what it could
> do. In all the time SNK has been using the Neo, Capcom has had the CPS1,
> CPS2, CPS3 and Naomi.
So you think Capcom has not unleashed the true power of CPS2!!
finalatomicbuster
"Matt Greer" <tort...@SPAMrcnchicago.com> wrote in message
news:9dpqrv$ppr$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> "Ryo" <ryo...@free.nospam.fr> wrote in message
> news:Xns90A1C52DFF68...@213.228.0.132...
>
>
> > CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224
>
> The Neo Geo is 320x224. If nothing else take a screenshot of a game from
an
> emu and throw it into photoshop. It will come up to that size.
>
sorry matt, you're wrong here. 320 240 is what you get from the grab, but it
has borders. I just cropped the borders out and got 304 224. I don't know if
CPS3 has borders, I don't have the software to test it, but I'm pretty sure
it is still higher than Neo. And AOF3 doesn't look that good from those
screens... the characters are huge, I'll give it that, but it doesn't really
look that vibrant in comparison to CPS3. But I'll have to see it running on
a proper arcade machine to really see the differences.
Tempora
and play it under MAME or NeoRage. You will need to find the NeoGeo BIOS
first, before you start finding any NeoGeo games.
I think the fluidity of the animation that is there in AOF3 is as good as
Street Fighter 3, BUT the game lacks the sheer *variety* of animation
present in SF3, so AOF3 seems a bit stiff when characters react to different
attacks the same exact singular way even when hit in different parts of the
body.
--
French Fries are the
White Rice of Fast Food.
"finalatomicbuster" <captain...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:m8nnd9...@news.isa.net.au...
Tempora
>
> CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224, 12 bit, but
> apparently very rarely the full color are used...Side note: on the Saturn,
> the capcom CPS-2 conversions resolution is 352x224, but the object
(sprites
> and backgound parts) size is the same, resulting in the "fat" graphics
> effects some reported (Tempora?).
>
Yeah, the characters are definitely squashed vertically.
However, despite the same horizontal resolution, the left and right side of
the screen is truncated, so you're ALWAYS missing parts of the picture in
the Saturn port.
However, Capcom may compensate by moving things around, like they did with
the character portraits that were located in the extreme left and right top
corner in the Versus games to underneath the vital bar for the Saturn ports.
Or, they don't compensate at all, and stuff is just cut off at the sides of
the screen, like in Pocket Fighter and Capcom Generation 5.
Matt Greer
>
> "Matt Greer" <tort...@SPAMrcnchicago.com> wrote in message
> news:9dpqrv$ppr$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> > "Ryo" <ryo...@free.nospam.fr> wrote in message
> > news:Xns90A1C52DFF68...@213.228.0.132...
> >
> >
> > > CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224
> >
> > The Neo Geo is 320x224. If nothing else take a screenshot of a game from
> an
> > emu and throw it into photoshop. It will come up to that size.
> >
>
> sorry matt, you're wrong here. 320 240 is what you get from the grab, but
it
> has borders.
Well this is interesting. Every Neo site on the net (that I know of) states
it at 320x224, and today at work my emu produced a screengrab at that res.
But now I'm seeing 304x224 crop up as well. Which equals an 8 pixel border
around the entire image, which I wonder is significant or just coincidence.
> I just cropped the borders out and got 304 224. I don't know if
> CPS3 has borders, I don't have the software to test it, but I'm pretty
sure
> it is still higher than Neo.
Of course, that was never an issue. I think even the CPS1 has higher res
than the Neo. No one ever stated the Neo has higher res than CPS2/3.
> And AOF3 doesn't look that good from those
> screens... the characters are huge, I'll give it that, but it doesn't
really
> look that vibrant in comparison to CPS3.
First, you must be blind, have cataracts and have a blurry computer monitor
:) And second, again, the CPS3 comparison was not the issue. I was simply
stating AOF3 is a good indication of what the Neo can do. If the Neo was
more powerful than the CPS3, then Capcom would have to hang their head in
utter embarrasment. Personally I don't think any CPS3 games look all that
great. Capcom rests on their laurels too much.
--
Matt
http://www.classicgaming.com/neotokens
finalatomicbuster
> > screens... the characters are huge, I'll give it that, but it doesn't
> really
> > look that vibrant in comparison to CPS3.
>
> First, you must be blind, have cataracts and have a blurry computer
monitor
> :) And second, again, the CPS3 comparison was not the issue. I was simply
> stating AOF3 is a good indication of what the Neo can do. If the Neo was
> more powerful than the CPS3, then Capcom would have to hang their head in
> utter embarrasment. Personally I don't think any CPS3 games look all that
> great. Capcom rests on their laurels too much.
>
Ahh, ok. Sorry, I mis read you. Yes, it does look pretty good for a Neo
game. One thing I do like from the screens is that SNK finally made the bg a
duller tone than originally. I remember seeing KOF (pre98 I think) and was
all confused cos all the bg colors were the same as most of the chars and
they all tended to blend into each other, which wasn't good. CPS bg were
colorful, but they never really blended the chars into the bg like they did
with early KOF games. LB and SS are good examples of when SNK did it right I
think.
Ryo
news:9htpd9...@news.isa.net.au:
FYI, CPS-1/2/3 have the same resolution... heck, even Street Fighter had
that res and it was before CPS-1 intro... I wonder if Vulgus (Capcom's
first game, according to Captain Commando ;o) already used that res...
Also, how do I now CPS-3 res? Someone posted an file of SF3 title screen,
it came from the CD; you had to rename it to BMP and voila, 384x224.
Shiranui Gen-An
"Ryo"
<
> CPS-2 is 384x224, 12bit color + fade. NeoGeo is 304x224, 12 bit, but
> apparently very rarely the full color are used...Side note: on the Saturn,
> the capcom CPS-2 conversions resolution is 352x224, but the object
(sprites
> and backgound parts) size is the same, resulting in the "fat" graphics
> effects some reported (Tempora?).
>
Speaking of resolution in home conversions, *what* is up with these DC ports
of CPS2 games (and some CPS3 games)? They look so freaking blurry! Did
they try to use a different resolution from the arcade version? MvC1, SFZ3
and SF3: W Impact looked fine; then along came SF3:3s (which thankfully had
codes to change the resolution), MvC2, Vampire Chronicle, and SSF2X which
are all blurry as heck. The Saturn ports of Vampire Savior and SSF2X look
*far* better than the DC ports (aside from the "fatness"). What did Capcom
*do*?
AIT MOUSS Ahmed
in 3D games to smoothen textures. This is what produces the blur you see in
those games.
By the way, it is also used in recent games on the Naomi board (CvS, MvC2)
to compensate for the inferior resolution of the sprites.
"Shiranui Gen-An" <shiran...@supamu-ga-kirai-da.mindspring.com> a écrit
dans le message news: 9drivk$jqq$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Shiranui Gen-An
"AIT MOUSS Ahmed" <alp...@noos.fr> wrote in message
news:9ds0eg$h86$1...@news2.isdnet.net...
> I think they used the bilinear filtering effect of the DC, the same one
used
> in 3D games to smoothen textures. This is what produces the blur you see
in
> those games.
> By the way, it is also used in recent games on the Naomi board (CvS, MvC2)
> to compensate for the inferior resolution of the sprites.
If *those* are the effects it will give I'd rather just deal with the low
resolution...
Tempora
message news:9drivk$jqq$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
Capcom really dropped the ball when programming the TV output of those
Dreamcast ports. The games all look fine when VGA output is used; all the
blur is gone.
Shiranui Gen-An
> Capcom really dropped the ball when programming the TV output of those
> Dreamcast ports. The games all look fine when VGA output is used; all the
> blur is gone.
>
Tempora
Well, I actually like my stuff to look sharp and I would assume that Capcom
programmers use the same VGA monitors they use to program to play their
stuff, not on TVs. I also don't turn on scanlines on arcade emulators;
scanlines are a deficiency of television monitors (not to mention that they
make things unclear) and will soon go away when HDTV is standard.