Human Ryu/Ken VS Human Blanka, help!
choi...@iscsvax.uni.edu
favorite characters are Ryu and Ken, but I just can't beat him. Ok, here's
why I'm suffering from Blanka. When he plays Blanka, he keeps certain distance
from me. He constantly uses his round house or crouching fierce which has an
incredible range, and if I shoot the fireball, the he jumps up and gives me a
perfect 3 hit combo and dizzies me. He does that triple hit combo again
(which is Jumping fierce, standing strong, and a round house), and he usually
jumps when I am knocked dowm and hit me with fierce. Even if I block, he
starts bites me, and I really can't counter throw since Blanka has much longer
range then Ryu and Ken. When I try to neck kick him and try to do some combo,
he uses rolling attack or standing fierce in perfect timing. The thing is, if
I star him once, the I can usually finish him off with Ryu or Ken's re-dizzy
jab tripple dp (which doesn't work everytime, but sometimes)... I get so
frustrated about his Blanka. By the way, I consider myself a pretty good Ryu
or Ken player, since I know how to fireball trap, TOD, and several other
combos. By the way, I tried to shoot a fireball and sweep him when he lands
with round house, but he uses his round house when he jumps and it always hits
me. Please, I need help from real masters, if you call yourself so.
Thanx in advance.
Brian Choi
P.S. I'm talking about SNES version of the game. However, advice about CE or
HF also will be greatly appreciated.
James Macek
>Well, I'm having trouble against my roommate who plays Blanka often. My
>favorite characters are Ryu and Ken, but I just can't beat him. Ok, here's
>why I'm suffering from Blanka. When he plays Blanka, he keeps certain distance
>from me. He constantly uses his round house or crouching fierce which has an
>incredible range, and if I shoot the fireball, the he jumps up and gives me a
>perfect 3 hit combo and dizzies me. He does that triple hit combo again
>P.S. I'm talking about SNES version of the game. However, advice about CE or
>HF also will be greatly appreciated.
Ok, I don't play any Ninteno systems--too primitive in my eyes, but for
HF, Blanka should not be trouble for Ryu, even less for Ken. If you
are really frustrated against a patient Blanka, just stand pressing
straight back on the joystick and quickly pressing jab punch. If
Blanka rolls he usually loses against the jab, leaving ample time
to throw a fireball, setting up anything you want to follow up with.
If he doesn't roll, he may be tempted to jump forward. For Ryu, you
need to adjust your range, but for Ken just use strong/fierce and
knock him out of the air. Try to trap Blanka in the corner, and if
you are at close range tick the hell out of him....
.
-jim
--
Jim, gt7...@prism.gatech.edu or
jmm...@netcom.com (matters not)
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_Ulysses_ | from "stray" on _Spooky_
Eu-Ming Lee
In order to exploit Ryu's advantage over Blanka, you must be able to DP
whenever you want.
You say that Blanka is jumping in with a fierce, and then biting you if
you block. In this situation, and in any situation in which you block
an aerial attack, you should DP. If you are not confident with your DP,
you can try a hurricane kick instead. It's not as effective as the DP,
but it will keep you in the game if you can't DP.
You want to control the positioning. If Blanka is far away, you can
throw fireballs to force him to react and move closer. It is in this
situation where you have the advantage. Do not be predictable with your
fireballs. If Blanka anticipates a fireball, he can get in and combo
you. If Blanka reacts to a fireball, you will be able to DP before he
can hit you.
You mentioned that you knew how to fireball trap Blanka, but he was
hitting you out of your roundhouse sweep with his flying roundhouse.
If this is the case, you should start your sweep a little later and a
little farther back. You can safely sweep Blanka with your toes out
of his flying attack range. If he is STILL getting you, then you're
being too predictable. Jump up in the air after you throw the fireball
and hit him with your roundhouse kick on your way up.
The way to beat Blanka is to force him to make mistakes. Force him
to anticipate your fireball and jump into your DP's. The only way to
do this is to be consistent with your DP's and to be unpredictable
with your fireballs and counters.
Ticking Blanka is not recommended. It is easy for Blanka to ball out
of ticks, so you'll have to fake alot to come out ahead. Getting up
close to Blanka gives you a 50/50 chance of coming out ahead. You
have much better odds if you stay back.
Also, if Blanka seems to be punching you out of your predictable fireballs
alot, or in general sticking his limbs out and constantly attacking,
you can DP his limbs if you expect it.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"I was shipwrecked with this frog who was constantly testing my faith. He
made outrageous demands. I ignored them. One day I strapped on my boat to
freedom and sailed into shore. He's not touching me anymore."
holme...@iscsvax.uni.edu
>
>>Well, I'm having trouble against my roommate who plays Blanka often. My
>>favorite characters are Ryu and Ken, but I just can't beat him. Ok, here's
>>why I'm suffering from Blanka. When he plays Blanka, he keeps certain distance
>>from me. He constantly uses his round house or crouching fierce which has an
>>incredible range, and if I shoot the fireball, the he jumps up and gives me a
>>perfect 3 hit combo and dizzies me. He does that triple hit combo again
>
>>P.S. I'm talking about SNES version of the game. However, advice about CE or
>>HF also will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ok, I don't play any Ninteno systems--too primitive in my eyes, but for
> HF, Blanka should not be trouble for Ryu, even less for Ken. If you
> are really frustrated against a patient Blanka, just stand pressing
> straight back on the joystick and quickly pressing jab punch. If
> Blanka rolls he usually loses against the jab, leaving ample time
> to throw a fireball, setting up anything you want to follow up with.
> If he doesn't roll, he may be tempted to jump forward. For Ryu, you
> need to adjust your range, but for Ken just use strong/fierce and
> knock him out of the air. Try to trap Blanka in the corner, and if
> you are at close range tick the hell out of him....
> .
> -jim
Hello, I'm his roommate. Do you think I'm an idiot? Why would I ball or jump
in on KEN\Ryu\Guile that crouch and jab to protect themselves? A nice
crouching fist in their face usually teaches them not to blindly attack. Once
in a while they will hit your crouching fierce, then just use your roundhouse.
If they do the shovel (shorts) use the fierce. The thing about blanka on the
SNES version is that he can, at the proper distance, counter any attack by
Ryu/Ken because they are so slow and blanka out ranges them. Their fireball
takes so long to wind up that fireball, Blanka can fierce him before he gets it
off, or jump over it and combo if you're close enough. Yes I know on CE and HF
Ryu can DP you alot easier when you try to jump over, but it's still very hard.
Also ticking doesn't work. I can counter a lot better than he can tick.
-Brando
PS Please excuse my sarcasm. A lot of things are differnt on SNES, but for
Blanka it still carries over a lot of things. We play HF and My blanka does
good but not as well as on the SNES or classic.
holme...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> Ryu has an advantage over Blanka, but not Ken.
>
Small, but true. If your talking about CE/HF. He was refering to SNES, where
Blanka has a remarkable advantage over Ken/Ryu. Dhalsim is god, with Guile the
reigning king. Blanka comes is at a modest third. It's pretty a distinct
hierarchy.
> In order to exploit Ryu's advantage over Blanka, you must be able to DP
> whenever you want.
Oh he can.
>
> You say that Blanka is jumping in with a fierce, and then biting you if
> you block. In this situation, and in any situation in which you block
> an aerial attack, you should DP. If you are not confident with your DP,
> you can try a hurricane kick instead. It's not as effective as the DP,
> but it will keep you in the game if you can't DP.
No I really don't do that. I only jump in on him if he roundhoused,
fireballed, or got knocked down. I rarely tick like he said.
>
> You want to control the positioning. If Blanka is far away, you can
> throw fireballs to force him to react and move closer. It is in this
> situation where you have the advantage. Do not be predictable with your
> fireballs. If Blanka anticipates a fireball, he can get in and combo
> you. If Blanka reacts to a fireball, you will be able to DP before he
> can hit you.
>
> You mentioned that you knew how to fireball trap Blanka, but he was
> hitting you out of your roundhouse sweep with his flying roundhouse.
> If this is the case, you should start your sweep a little later and a
> little farther back. You can safely sweep Blanka with your toes out
> of his flying attack range. If he is STILL getting you, then you're
> being too predictable. Jump up in the air after you throw the fireball
> and hit him with your roundhouse kick on your way up.
>
> The way to beat Blanka is to force him to make mistakes. Force him
> to anticipate your fireball and jump into your DP's. The only way to
> do this is to be consistent with your DP's and to be unpredictable
> with your fireballs and counters.
>
> Ticking Blanka is not recommended. It is easy for Blanka to ball out
> of ticks, so you'll have to fake alot to come out ahead. Getting up
> close to Blanka gives you a 50/50 chance of coming out ahead. You
> have much better odds if you stay back.
>
> Also, if Blanka seems to be punching you out of your predictable fireballs
> alot, or in general sticking his limbs out and constantly attacking,
> you can DP his limbs if you expect it.
>
What character are you talking about? Ryu? More importanly what_version_ are
you talking about? On SNES Ryu/Ken cannot and I repeat cannot fireball safely
against blanka. He can DP better than anyone else, so that's not the problem.
And I rarely make mistakes with blanka against Ryu. If Blanka does make a
mistake his recovery time is very fast and hard to exploit. Compareably,
Blanka is fast ennough that it doesn't take much of a goof up to make you
regret it. The only chance that Ryu has is to keep Blanka at bay with
fireballs at a considerbly distance, and then roundhouse trip him then he jumps
over. It's pretty easy to hit the roundhouse with a fierce on HF or CE. True
you can hit him with your outreached toe sometimes but it if very difficult
with out either being the wrong distance, too early or too late. If you can do
it every time, you should have no problem beating him with other methods. In
CE and HF Capcom gave Ryu and Ken additional powers, but on the SNES version
its as easy as D vs the Zster on classic.
-Brando (his roomate)
James Macek
>> Ok, I don't play any Ninteno systems--too primitive in my eyes, but for
>> HF, Blanka should not be trouble for Ryu, even less for Ken. If you
>> are really frustrated against a patient Blanka, just stand pressing
>> straight back on the joystick and quickly pressing jab punch. If
>> Blanka rolls he usually loses against the jab, leaving ample time
>> to throw a fireball, setting up anything you want to follow up with.
>> If he doesn't roll, he may be tempted to jump forward. For Ryu, you
>> need to adjust your range, but for Ken just use strong/fierce and
>> knock him out of the air. Try to trap Blanka in the corner, and if
>> you are at close range tick the hell out of him....
>> .
>> -jim
>Hello, I'm his roommate. Do you think I'm an idiot? Why would I ball or jump
>in on KEN\Ryu\Guile that crouch and jab to protect themselves? A nice
>crouching fist in their face usually teaches them not to blindly attack. Once
>in a while they will hit your crouching fierce, then just use your roundhouse.
>If they do the shovel (shorts) use the fierce. The thing about blanka on the
>SNES version is that he can, at the proper distance, counter any attack by
>Ryu/Ken because they are so slow and blanka out ranges them. Their fireball
>takes so long to wind up that fireball, Blanka can fierce him before he gets it
>off, or jump over it and combo if you're close enough. Yes I know on CE and HF
>Ryu can DP you alot easier when you try to jump over, but it's still very hard.
Well, now I'm confused. If SNES is really different, then I can't comment.
However, if I play Ryu, stand while jabbing, what do you do as Blanka?
The jab will also counter the crouching fierce Blanka punch. If you are
good enough, you just dragon punch eith the roundhouse sweep or the
crouching fierce punch...or just block. On an HF machine dp limbs
is not difficult, and this leaves Blanka with the option of jumping--
and thus also being dragon-punched. But I guess we are comparing apples
and oranges. Your roomate said for any machine was ok.
>Also ticking doesn't work. I can counter a lot better than he can tick.
Sounds like you are just a better player then. Blanka is harder to tick
than some of the other characters, but Guile can just do a standing
short kick, throw pretty easily...and the bite usually doesn't work
as a counter.
>Blanka it still carries over a lot of things. We play HF and My blanka does
>good but not as well as on the SNES or classic.
Ok, sarcasm excused....this final statement explains alot...
-Jim
Lord Baal
>Ok, I don't play any Ninteno systems--too primitive in my eyes, but for
>HF, Blanka should not be trouble for Ryu, even less for Ken. If you
>are really frustrated against a patient Blanka, just stand pressing
>straight back on the joystick and quickly pressing jab punch. If
>Blanka rolls he usually loses against the jab, leaving ample time
>to throw a fireball, setting up anything you want to follow up with.
>If he doesn't roll, he may be tempted to jump forward. For Ryu, you
>need to adjust your range, but for Ken just use strong/fierce and
>knock him out of the air. Try to trap Blanka in the corner, and if
>you are at close range tick the hell out of him....
>.
>-jim
You are obviously an ignorant fool... first of all ryu
is much better at beating blanka than ken because of the
hurricane and the shorterr time between fireballs...
second ken and ryu are no match for a blanka that knows
how to play(such as myself) third if you trap blanka in
the corner there is no way you can tick the hell out of
him...he can easily get out with the bite or the ball !!
The only way a ken and ryu is going to beat blanka
is to play keep away and dp when blanka jumps in
otherwise a good blanka will whip ken and ryu and shovel
them into the ground !
(_______)
\ \ / /
\ /
____________\_/
/|| ||
/ || 666 ||
/ ||_________||
* || ||
"" ""
To Foolish Mortals, God is a Cow......
Lord Baal....
James Macek
> You are obviously an ignorant fool... first of all ryu
> is much better at beating blanka than ken because of the
> hurricane and the shorterr time between fireballs...
> second ken and ryu are no match for a blanka that knows
> how to play(such as myself) third if you trap blanka in
> the corner there is no way you can tick the hell out of
> him...he can easily get out with the bite or the ball !!
> The only way a ken and ryu is going to beat blanka
> is to play keep away and dp when blanka jumps in
> otherwise a good blanka will whip ken and ryu and shovel
> them into the ground !
Ok, yeah right. Putz players like you really make my day. Illinois
obviously ain't breeding good sf2 players--just cows. NO Blanka
can play with a decent Ryu/Ken. If I tick and you decide to roll,
I dragon punch--jezz, you must have no good players there. Ever seen
that? If you don't roll, you block and I hit for damage and move
far enough away for anything else. A good Ryu or Ken rarely throws
fireballs--which you idiot Blankas depend upon--and just waits for
you to make the first move. Then Ryu or Ken uses overall balance
and indestructable offensive moves (ie dragon punch) to win. If you
jump in (remember I'm not throwing fireballs) I dragon punch you.
If you roll, I dp or just jab you, if you sweep I block. Spare
us these stories about how good Blanka is. He is formidable
against foolish players, but against a MAN like me your nothing.
> Lord Baal....
- Lord Kyron
Lord Baal
>> Lord Baal....
>- Lord Kyron
>--
Man i come back to school for summer and there are these
morons out there who think they know how to play....first of all
if you seriuosly think that ken can whip a blanka you are
seriously mistaken... believe me i know how to play..(probably
alot better than you can) this is not cockiness i only know maybe
two people in the whole chicago land area who are good as me..
i've been to literally fifty arcades at least and i've not found
a handful of peole who can really beat me consistently or are
better than me....euming and Q might argue otherwise...but
they are the only ones i've seen who can beat me fairly regualry
although i can beat them regualry as well...but seriously...
blanka defintly has advanatages over ken and ryu....Why the hell
do you assume that i'm going to jump in on you??? that would be
kinda stupid... i would whittle you away by balling and biteing..
and then i would kill you when you start to panick...ahahahahahaha
.
James Macek
> Man i come back to school for summer and there are these
> morons out there who think they know how to play....first of all
> if you seriuosly think that ken can whip a blanka you are
> seriously mistaken... believe me i know how to play..(probably
> alot better than you can) this is not cockiness i only know maybe
> two people in the whole chicago land area who are good as me..
> i've been to literally fifty arcades at least and i've not found
> a handful of peole who can really beat me consistently or are
> better than me....euming and Q might argue otherwise...but
> they are the only ones i've seen who can beat me fairly regualry
> although i can beat them regualry as well...but seriously...
> blanka defintly has advanatages over ken and ryu....Why the hell
> do you assume that i'm going to jump in on you??? that would be
> kinda stupid... i would whittle you away by balling and biteing..
> and then i would kill you when you start to panick...ahahahahahaha
> .
Well, well, well. I can only stress that players in Illinois obviously
don't stand the test against Californians like me. Ever been to L.A.,
the Bay Area, or Las Vegas? REAL players baby. Best in Chicagoland
ain't much. I was in Chicago two weeks ago (visiting friends in
Downers Grove). No one in the suburbs or the downtown area amounted
to much. My conclusion: nor do you foolish boy. euming and Q can
beat you fairly? I bet I could be you "fairly" or "unfairly". What
the hell is fair? You already established that Blanka cannot be ticked
by Ken. You would whittle me away balling and biting? How is that?
You ball, I dp or jab...you lose. You try to bite, dp or I throw you.
Christ son, you are one sad specimen. Panic? Yeah, right....
Come out west and blab your mouth little one. We'll teach how to
win. While you learn though, you will lose....Illinois...hah!
-Jim
Nathan W Cromer
Lord Baal may be cocky, but he's perfectly correct.
A good Blanka can beat the shit out of Ryu and Ken.
No matter what version you are talking about.
Blanka can just wait. Wait all day. Sure, you can DP or jab a Blanka ball.
Like anyone is stupid enuff to ball when you can get those moves out.
Sheesh.
At close range, if you fireball, Blanka will jump in and combo.
At close range, if you don't fireball, Blanka will force you to block
his crouching roundhouses or fierces. Sure, you can DP his limbs,
if you KNOW the move is coming ... but if you try to DP as soon as you
see the limb coming, you will be hit because you have lost the defensive
crouch position .... not even the best can rip off the DP as soon as they
see a fist coming at them ... put simply: the milli-second required for the
attack to hit you is just too fast to respond to. You have to outguess
Blanka if you wanna hit 'im ... and I would imagine that the Blanka is
playing haphazardly and is hard to anticipate, if he's any good.
Jumping in on Blanka isn't too smart, his crouching Fierce beats the hell
out almost every aerial attack (I know Chun's toe tap beats it on Classic,
not sure about CE or HF). You can't attack him from the ground, his range
is superior. You can fireball from the perfect range, and then footsweep
him when he lands, but most good Blankas know that his fierce aerial claw
beats the footsweep. And then strong, crouching forward, fierce ball.
This is not good.
Ken is a little better off with longer range DP, but his slower FB recovery
time leaves Blanka with easy pickings, as long as Blanka attacks earlier
he would if he were comboin'.
Blanka will win against Ken/Ryu by playing defensive, almost every time.
Oh, and since I play in Mississippi, I must be the best around. *groan*
It is very nice that you come from California, but it don't mean shit
about how you play. And I'm sure while you were in Chicago you must of
played the best people there, and since you beat them, you are better than
all of Chicago. What a fine exercise in logic.
"Don't fuck with me, I'm from India." - Dhalsim
Eu-Ming Lee
>jb...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord Baal ) writes:
>> Man i come back to school for summer and there are these
>Well, well, well. I can only stress that players in Illinois obviously
>don't stand the test against Californians like me. Ever been to L.A.,
>the Bay Area, or Las Vegas? REAL players baby. Best in Chicagoland
>ain't much. I was in Chicago two weeks ago (visiting friends in
>Downers Grove). No one in the suburbs or the downtown area amounted
>to much. My conclusion: nor do you foolish boy. euming and Q can
>beat you fairly? I bet I could be you "fairly" or "unfairly". What
I would appreciate it, as would others, that you actually reread a line
when you don't understand it with your feeble intellect at first glance. Did
it ever occur to you that "fairly" was modifying "regularly", which
happens to be the word right next to it? I assume from your puzzled
state that you thought that fairly was describing the manner in which
Euming, and I (Q) play. Fairly regularly, is a commonly used phrase
which means pretty often, pretty=Fairly, often= Regularly.
>the hell is fair? You already established that Blanka cannot be ticked
>by Ken. You would whittle me away balling and biting? How is that?
>You ball, I dp or jab...you lose. You try to bite, dp or I throw you.
Yeah, you would dp or jab- imagine this situation:
Blanka starts out about 3 inches away from you. He crouches. He feints
with short kicks, etc. You, Ken, are sitting there, waiting.
10 seconds go by of this, Blanka then balls (mind you, on the HF edition
the time it takes for Blanka to Fierce ball three inches is VERY short)
Taking into account that Blanka can wait 3 sec, 2 sec, or 20 sec before
he decides to do the ball, you really can't anticipate it.
I suppose that you are supposed to see Blanka forming his ball, and at that
very same instant START your dragon punch motion and hit him when he comes
towards you. I hate to say this, but the time it takes for you to see
that Blanka has started his ball, then decide to jab or DP, then actually jab
or DP is much longer (if unanticpated) then the time it takes
Blanka's ball to travel 3 inches.
If you are claiming to be some sort of super-reflex lord, and that all
of you Californians have some sort of genetically enhanced abilities from
the Ultraviolet rays that hit that state, let me remind you that
Our nervous system works on a chemical basis, and that these chemicals
require time to perform there duties.
>Christ son, you are one sad specimen. Panic? Yeah, right....
>Come out west and blab your mouth little one. We'll teach how to
"little one"- I find that phrase particulary amusing, since
Lord Baal happens to be about 6'4 with shoulders about 3 feet apart.
On top of this, he is asian, so this makes his size even more surprising.
>win. While you learn though, you will lose....Illinois...hah!
He mentioned that Q (me) and Eu-Ming are the only ones on par with him.
The difference between me and him is that I am stupid enough to
respond to this post, while he would look at it, shake his head, and go on.
James Macek
>Lord Baal may be cocky, but he's perfectly correct.
He's a loser...and an amateur.
>A good Blanka can beat the shit out of Ryu and Ken.
>No matter what version you are talking about.
*yawn*
>Blanka can just wait. Wait all day. Sure, you can DP or jab a Blanka ball.
>Like anyone is stupid enuff to ball when you can get those moves out.
>Sheesh.
Ok, right...same with Ken and Ryu. I just stand there. What do you
do? You can't do anything without putting yourself at great risk.
I jab, dp, or block...no damage done to me...some to you....loser
Blankas....
>At close range, if you fireball, Blanka will jump in and combo.
>At close range, if you don't fireball, Blanka will force you to block
>his crouching roundhouses or fierces. Sure, you can DP his limbs,
>if you KNOW the move is coming ... but if you try to DP as soon as you
I don't fireball, I block your punch or dp while watching your hand
hit the punch button....either way I lose NO energy while Blanka
risks alot. lose again.
>see the limb coming, you will be hit because you have lost the defensive
>crouch position .... not even the best can rip off the DP as soon as they
>see a fist coming at them ... put simply: the milli-second required for the
>attack to hit you is just too fast to respond to. You have to outguess
>Blanka if you wanna hit 'im ... and I would imagine that the Blanka is
>playing haphazardly and is hard to anticipate, if he's any good.
That's why watching buttons and fast dp'ing is almost unstoppable...
Blankas can be tough, but a well played (note not master) Ryu/Ken
is too much for the green chump.
>Jumping in on Blanka isn't too smart, his crouching Fierce beats the hell
>out almost every aerial attack (I know Chun's toe tap beats it on Classic,
>not sure about CE or HF). You can't attack him from the ground, his range
I believe Ken's fierce punch counters this....but the distance is
important for it...as for the Blanka punch. This depends on the
two players...never a definate
>is superior. You can fireball from the perfect range, and then footsweep
>him when he lands, but most good Blankas know that his fierce aerial claw
>beats the footsweep. And then strong, crouching forward, fierce ball.
>This is not good.
Fireball, then footsweep is too old and too tired...first timers use it
or masters good at setting it up....Blanka combos can be interupted by
dp as well....if Blanka gets that far....
>Ken is a little better off with longer range DP, but his slower FB recovery
>time leaves Blanka with easy pickings, as long as Blanka attacks earlier
>he would if he were comboin'.
I like Ken for the dp range, but Ryu's strong ground attack and
decent air priorities are too much for Blanka....
>Blanka will win against Ken/Ryu by playing defensive, almost every time.
>Oh, and since I play in Mississippi, I must be the best around. *groan*
>It is very nice that you come from California, but it don't mean shit
>about how you play. And I'm sure while you were in Chicago you must of
>played the best people there, and since you beat them, you are better than
>all of Chicago. What a fine exercise in logic.
Well, my logic is not perfect, but playing in Atlanta, Chicago, and
all over California would seem to indicate more exposure to good
players that fucking MISSISSIPPI. Jesus, they have computers?
Defensive Blanka CANNOT beat a defensive Ken/Ryu. No decent player
would argue this...thus by this logic you ain't even decent. Coupled
with being from Mississippi, you must really be a sad sight. Blanka
can beat Sagat, I won't argue (very much) that this is true, but against
Ken or Ryu, Blanka is just another chump in the way.
>"Don't fuck with me, I'm from India." - Dhalsim
At least you see the importance of the second best character....he's
almost as good as Vega.
-Admiral Luddite
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>nw...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Nathan W Cromer) writes:
>>see the limb coming, you will be hit because you have lost the defensive
>>crouch position .... not even the best can rip off the DP as soon as they
>>see a fist coming at them ... put simply: the milli-second required for the
>>attack to hit you is just too fast to respond to. You have to outguess
>>Blanka if you wanna hit 'im ... and I would imagine that the Blanka is
>>playing haphazardly and is hard to anticipate, if he's any good.
>That's why watching buttons and fast dp'ing is almost unstoppable...
>Blankas can be tough, but a well played (note not master) Ryu/Ken
>is too much for the green chump.
Button watching is effective, NOT! What is the difference between reacting
to seeing blanka's fierce punch come out, and seeing someone hit the
fierce button? Do you really think there is a non-negligible delay
netween hitting the button and having the fierce punch start on the screen??
Do you have any idea how quickly a computer can translate an input onto
the screen? If you don't, try this: Hit the 'y' key- count how long it takes
for the 'y' to appear on the screen. Surprise! by the time you glance
from the keyboard to the screen, it will be there!
Stop fooling yourself, when you are 'button watching' and dp'ing, you are
really simply anticipating blanka's move. You could better not looking at
the buttons, and saving the time from switching from looking at your opponent
and watching the screen..
Of course, I am talking about people who don't 'wind up" for an attack-
maybe if someone played with there hands behind there heads and jabbed the
fierce punch with their feet, you would have an advantage.
James Macek
>jmm...@netcom.com (James Macek) writes:
>>jb...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord Baal ) writes:
[deleted English lesson]
>10 seconds go by of this, Blanka then balls (mind you, on the HF edition
>the time it takes for Blanka to Fierce ball three inches is VERY short)
Yep, almost as short as it takes to press the jab button....or dp
for that matter....
>Taking into account that Blanka can wait 3 sec, 2 sec, or 20 sec before
>he decides to do the ball, you really can't anticipate it.
That's why I watch your buttons....
>I suppose that you are supposed to see Blanka forming his ball, and at that
>very same instant START your dragon punch motion and hit him when he comes
>towards you. I hate to say this, but the time it takes for you to see
>that Blanka has started his ball, then decide to jab or DP, then actually jab
>or DP is much longer (if unanticpated) then the time it takes
>Blanka's ball to travel 3 inches.
Wrong. Done all the time.....a jab button takes less time to press, even
after reacting to the ball, than it does to get the ball off. Therefore
the ball runs into the jab...and loses.
>If you are claiming to be some sort of super-reflex lord, and that all
>of you Californians have some sort of genetically enhanced abilities from
>the Ultraviolet rays that hit that state, let me remind you that
>Our nervous system works on a chemical basis, and that these chemicals
>require time to perform there duties.
Guess you haven't been out here. Some of these 10 year old kids reflexes
would amaze you. Now a bio-chemisrty lesson. Neat. Or *yawn*. I
guess, by your similiar U-V argument, that the cooler temperatures up
in Illinois cause these same bio-chemical reactions to occur slightly
slower--causes reflexes to suffer.....
>"little one"- I find that phrase particulary amusing, since
>Lord Baal happens to be about 6'4 with shoulders about 3 feet apart.
>On top of this, he is asian, so this makes his size even more surprising.
"Little One" refers to amateurs. His physical size is quite irrelevant.
Though "Lord" Baal is about my size. 3 feet shoulders? How does the
second player even reach his controls? :) How dumb. Another little
one for the books....
>He mentioned that Q (me) and Eu-Ming are the only ones on par with him.
>The difference between me and him is that I am stupid enough to
>respond to this post, while he would look at it, shake his head, and go on.
Too bad I haven't heard of either of you world-class players. As for
responding to the post--no one pulled your arm. I guess you'll have
to live with it.....putz.
Nathan W Cromer
>>Like anyone is stupid enuff to ball when you can get those moves out.
>>Sheesh.
>Ok, right...same with Ken and Ryu. I just stand there. What do you
>do? You can't do anything without putting yourself at great risk.
>I jab, dp, or block...no damage done to me...some to you....loser
>Blankas....
not honor you by assuming you know how to play basic Blanka.
>I don't fireball, I block your punch or dp while watching your hand
>hit the punch button....either way I lose NO energy while Blanka
>risks alot. lose again.
I suppose "hand faking" is illegal in California and thus not part of
your game.
>That's why watching buttons and fast dp'ing is almost unstoppable...
>Blankas can be tough, but a well played (note not master) Ryu/Ken
>is too much for the green chump.
screen. If you DP, you will git hit. Hell, he can even hit a button like
crouching jab, very short range. If you were expecting the crouching
fierce or roundhouse, and DP, you have been faked out, and will get hit.
>Well, my logic is not perfect, but playing in Atlanta, Chicago, and
>all over California would seem to indicate more exposure to good
>players that fucking MISSISSIPPI. Jesus, they have computers?
then perhaps I am wasting my time even replying to your posts.
And I never recall saying I played only in Mississippi ... Merely that
most of your previous post relied on how good you were and how much better
your Californian ass was better than all of Chicago. Sheesh. Must every
sentence be spoon-fed?
>Defensive Blanka CANNOT beat a defensive Ken/Ryu. No decent player
>would argue this...thus by this logic you ain't even decent.
First off, I never made claims as to my playing skill. I don't
even play Blanka! (Vega and Ryu are my favourites, btw). And your logic
shows a serious lack of maturity, IMO.
>Coupled
>with being from Mississippi, you must really be a sad sight. Blanka
>can beat Sagat, I won't argue (very much) that this is true, but against
>Ken or Ryu, Blanka is just another chump in the way.
bumpkin" Mississippi. That's ok. I would expect you to insult my place
of origin seeing as your argument's defense was so weak. I never intended
to start a war here, I was stating (albeit pretty cockily, I will
admit ;> my thoughts on Ryu/Ken Vs Blanka matches. If you only want to
insult and make blatant claims about matches, please email me instead of
posting on the net, so I wont think that your post actually has some
good strategies and/or arguments.
>-Admiral Luddite
"I beat a couple of scrubs in Chicago, therefore, I am better than all
of Chicago." - Admiral "Logic Man" Luddite
James Macek
>Button watching is effective, NOT! What is the difference between reacting
>to seeing blanka's fierce punch come out, and seeing someone hit the
>fierce button? Do you really think there is a non-negligible delay
>netween hitting the button and having the fierce punch start on the screen??
>Do you have any idea how quickly a computer can translate an input onto
>the screen? If you don't, try this: Hit the 'y' key- count how long it takes
>for the 'y' to appear on the screen. Surprise! by the time you glance
>from the keyboard to the screen, it will be there!
Honey, how'd you get so stupid. Watch AND listen...as well as intuition.
The human factor, if you will. Don't give me mips and bits and
nanoseconds, cause I do it. It works. You lose. Your argument would
conclude that every time a Ken/Ryu hits someone's limb with a dp it
is pure luck...yeah, I believe it.
>Stop fooling yourself, when you are 'button watching' and dp'ing, you are
>really simply anticipating blanka's move. You could better not looking at
>the buttons, and saving the time from switching from looking at your opponent
>and watching the screen..
>
This is a better argument. I do not STARE at the opponents hands.
It more subtle than that. Call it enhanced periferal vision if
you want....I watch, listen, and then anticipate. You make it
out as if I'm actually turning my head 45 degrees to look at the
opponents hands....they'd have to be one nice pair of hands for that.
>maybe if someone played with there hands behind there heads and jabbed the
>fierce punch with their feet, you would have an advantage.
Very interesting. Why not just close your eyes? Honey, I am quite
confident that you are a sf nobody. I won't play you with my feet,
cause the machine is designed nicely for hands....spare us the tales
of the absurd.
-Luddite
Lord Baal
>Lord Baal may be cocky, but he's perfectly correct.
>
>Oh, and since I play in Mississippi, I must be the best around. *groan*
>It is very nice that you come from California, but it don't mean shit
>about how you play. And I'm sure while you were in Chicago you must of
>played the best people there, and since you beat them, you are better than
>all of Chicago. What a fine exercise in logic.
>
>
>
>"Don't fuck with me, I'm from India." - Dhalsim
I agree ahahahah.. seriously those west coast californians have been
exposed to the sun too much...what the hell i agree that many people
in chicago sucks but there are some (very few) good ones...anyways
the person who says that ken can beat up blanka goes by two assumptions
one is that he can dp when blanka comes over and second that
he will either jab or dp the ball and counter the bite....
i believe the bite of blanka is slighter better than kens throws
(more priority) and plus if you are a blanka(im the best blanka there
is) hahah you can stay on the ground stay just out of kens
roundhouse and cause havoc....(i would like to see a person
who can by reflex dp either the ball the fierce or the roundhouse)
at will...(most people just anticpate those moves....(i usually
trick people into doing those things, and wait patiently till
they screw up ) long live blanka !!!
Lord Baal
>If you are claiming to be some sort of super-reflex lord, and that all
>of you Californians have some sort of genetically enhanced abilities from
>the Ultraviolet rays that hit that state, let me remind you that
>Our nervous system works on a chemical basis, and that these chemicals
>require time to perform there duties.
>>Christ son, you are one sad specimen. Panic? Yeah, right....
>>Come out west and blab your mouth little one. We'll teach how to
>"little one"- I find that phrase particulary amusing, since
>Lord Baal happens to be about 6'4 with shoulders about 3 feet apart.
>On top of this, he is asian, so this makes his size even more surprising.
>>win. While you learn though, you will lose....Illinois...hah!
>He mentioned that Q (me) and Eu-Ming are the only ones on par with him.
>The difference between me and him is that I am stupid enough to
>respond to this post, while he would look at it, shake his head, and go on.
>>-Jim
>>--
Actually i guess i would respond to this as wellll.... i havent
had a good argument on the net since i first appeared on it hahah
ming that was exactly what i was thinking....he sent me email
about what the hell fair was and i was thinking what the hell
is this guys problem.....(california will sink into the pacific
in 20 years) i think he has seen a good(me) blanka since
i really dont see a good blanka either anywhere its understandble
Justin C. Hogue
..won't stand the test against Californians like me. Ever been to L.A.,
..the Bay Area, or Las Vegas? REAL players baby. Best in Chicagoland
..ain't much. I was in Chicago two weeks ago (visiting friends in
..Downers Grove). No one in the suburbs or the downtown area amounted
..to much. My conclusion: nor do you foolish boy. euming and Q can
..beat you fairly? I bet I could be you "fairly" or "unfairly". What
HAHAHAHAH--oh please. I've been there and San Diego, and the guys in San
Diego were much better, and I still did well with my no-jab-throw Zangief.
If you are going to boast like that, back it up with SOMETHING. Pl-ease.
--Jowfus
James Macek
>Pease see Q's post about balling from 3 inches, you putz. From now on I will
>not honor you by assuming you know how to play basic Blanka.
And I do not recognize moron Q as an authority. I DO NOT play
Blanka, you putz. Jeez, IQ's drop lately?
>Oh, my sincere apologies. I forgot about the unstoppable "Admiral reflexes".
>I suppose "hand faking" is illegal in California and thus not part of
>your game.
Apology accepted fool. Nate, give me a break. My netrek characters
have nothing to do with my sf2 reflexes. Moron. "Hand faking" is
just another part of the game that you have to deal with. This is
not a binary issue. There are many factors involved that will make
Blanka lose....or Ken if he's bad.
>Sometimes people fake the move. You are watching their hands, not the
>screen. If you DP, you will git hit. Hell, he can even hit a button like
>crouching jab, very short range. If you were expecting the crouching
>fierce or roundhouse, and DP, you have been faked out, and will get hit.
This is acceptable. A risk if you will. Blanka sticks his hand out
risking being dp'ed. Ken dp's risking a fake.....that's why it's a game.
Uncertainty and strategy.
>If you are not even smart enuff to recognize blatant sarcasm,
>then perhaps I am wasting my time even replying to your posts.
>And I never recall saying I played only in Mississippi ... Merely that
>most of your previous post relied on how good you were and how much better
>your Californian ass was better than all of Chicago. Sheesh. Must every
>sentence be spoon-fed?
If you put it there, be prepared to explain. Your response is sad
because of your own logic. I never said I LIVED in California. I
LIVE in Chicago. Loser. Maybe you should check the facts before
your blatant sarcasm spills all over. Putz.
>Shit man ... where'd you go to school? DID you go to school?
>First off, I never made claims as to my playing skill. I don't
>even play Blanka! (Vega and Ryu are my favourites, btw). And your logic
>shows a serious lack of maturity, IMO.
I'm happy to see a fellow Vega player. Too bad it's you. Georgia
Tech is my school. California is where I play, Chicago is my home
Maturity? After all, folks, we're playing a fuckin GAME. Maturity
is not a factor--I've been beaten by immature adults and kids....
1
>Guess we'll never know, huh? Unless you can stand the sight of "country
>bumpkin" Mississippi. That's ok. I would expect you to insult my place
>of origin seeing as your argument's defense was so weak. I never intended
>to start a war here, I was stating (albeit pretty cockily, I will
>admit ;> my thoughts on Ryu/Ken Vs Blanka matches. If you only want to
>insult and make blatant claims about matches, please email me instead of
>posting on the net, so I wont think that your post actually has some
>good strategies and/or arguments.
Now why would I want to make you happy by flooding your mailbox? Are
you lonely? I could make it to Mississippi. Just take I-20 from
Georgia Tech....maybe I can organize that and a trip to UIUC. You
never intended to start a war? Bullshit. EVERY post is potential
war material.
>>-Admiral Luddite
>
>"I beat a couple of scrubs in Chicago, therefore, I am better than all
>of Chicago." - Admiral "Logic Man" Luddite
Foolish hick boy. I LIVE in Chicago, they SUCK...YOU SUCK. My
netrek name is used in case anyone from netrek sites recognizes me.
You fucking idiot. Admiral makes more sense now, doesn't it?
-Admiral Kyron
James Macek
> I agree ahahahah.. seriously those west coast californians have been
> exposed to the sun too much...what the hell i agree that many people
> in chicago sucks but there are some (very few) good ones...anyways
> the person who says that ken can beat up blanka goes by two assumptions
> one is that he can dp when blanka comes over and second that
> he will either jab or dp the ball and counter the bite....
> i believe the bite of blanka is slighter better than kens throws
> (more priority) and plus if you are a blanka(im the best blanka there
> is) hahah you can stay on the ground stay just out of kens
> roundhouse and cause havoc....(i would like to see a person
> who can by reflex dp either the ball the fierce or the roundhouse)
> at will...(most people just anticpate those moves....(i usually
> trick people into doing those things, and wait patiently till
> they screw up ) long live blanka !!!
*yawn*....Blanka blows.
-Admiral Luddite
James Macek
> HAHAHAHAH--oh please. I've been there and San Diego, and the guys in San
>Diego were much better, and I still did well with my no-jab-throw Zangief.
>If you are going to boast like that, back it up with SOMETHING. Pl-ease.
Ah yes, an Arizona constituent. Swell. California is a big state, son.
LA is ok. Have you tried the schools? Maybe USC or drive north to
UC Berkeley? Try them on for size, sucker.
-Admiral Luddite says, "So many twinks, so few torpedos"
Nathan W Cromer
as to why Ken/Ryu should win, actually, nothing productive at all.
>>most of your previous post relied on how good you were and how much better
>>your Californian ass was better than all of Chicago. Sheesh. Must every
>>sentence be spoon-fed?
>If you put it there, be prepared to explain. Your response is sad
>because of your own logic. I never said I LIVED in California. I
>LIVE in Chicago. Loser. Maybe you should check the facts before
>your blatant sarcasm spills all over. Putz.
that he should bring his ass over to Ca for some real SF2 learning.
I am glad you go to Georgia Tech. I am sure the whole net is. Seriously
though, how bout we drop the damn insults and put up some action? I am
not the best Blanka player, but I am willing to meet ya somewhere if ya
wanna play. It would be great to play some out of state competetion,
because in truth, there is little in Ms. Even better, a trip to UIUC would
be great, say this next weekend (July 4th weekend).
And about netrek, I don't play (too much lag across my link to participate
on any live sites).
I must compliment you on your wide range of vocabulary insults.
Putz. Loser. Hick. Idiot.
*yawn*
Heh heh I couldnt help putting in one last insult, after all the flaming
we've done :> I bet all these people are gettin a kick out of our
senseless war. Don't let em down. *grin*
Seriously, how bout the trip?
-- Wil
Sarah Kay Ellerman
You have still missed the point- Explain the difference between reacting
to someone hitting the fierce button (with potential fakes) and reacting
to actually seeing the move on the screen.
Also, you were mocking someone for not bothering to differentiate between
Jim, and Bim, or whatever. Who gives a shit? Obviously both of you lameo's
read the same net, so the message gets to you anyway.
You are obviously an ugly fool. You have the I.Q. of a piece of dirt.
I wonder, at times, why God put people as stupid as you on this planet.
I guess that isn't fair though, even though you are obviously an ugly,
stupid moron, you deserve to live, and think that you have discovered the
ultimate long-hidden key to SFii - Button watching.
Thomas Calvin Cannon
>ho...@CS.Arizona.EDU (Justin C. Hogue) writes:
>
>> HAHAHAHAH--oh please. I've been there and San Diego, and the guys in San
>>Diego were much better, and I still did well with my no-jab-throw Zangief.
>>If you are going to boast like that, back it up with SOMETHING. Pl-ease.
>
>Ah yes, an Arizona constituent. Swell. California is a big state, son.
>LA is ok. Have you tried the schools? Maybe USC or drive north to
>UC Berkeley? Try them on for size, sucker.
>
>-Admiral Luddite says, "So many twinks, so few torpedos"
>
I'll second that. In general, the universities are the SF2 hot-spots.
Just ask yourself who's better: the guys at UIUC or your average 'mall
master.'
---
Tom Cannon
ink...@leland.stanford.edu
Eu-Ming Lee
you won't see my hand hovering over my button of choice. Come on, get real.
I can do simple Ryu combos with one hand. My left hand flies from the joystick
to the button and back to the button to complete a flying roundhouse/jab DP
combo. In that span of 6 inches from the joystick to the buttons, you would
not be able to predict which button I was going to press. Now try the same
game with the fingers of my right hand hovering over the buttons.
--
Eu-Ming Lee
>If you put it there, be prepared to explain. Your response is sad
>because of your own logic. I never said I LIVED in California. I
>LIVE in Chicago. Loser. Maybe you should check the facts before
>your blatant sarcasm spills all over. Putz.
If you live in Chicago, email me a time and place and I will make an
effort to play you. I agree with you that the competition is really
bad. I have to drive hundreds of miles to Champaign just to play
anyone decent. But if you play as good as you pose, then I will be
amused. So far, all of the people I've met and played were rather
poor players. But maybe they learned something.
I'm going down to Champaign this weekend. Maybe I'll get some
decent competition while I'm there.
>-Admiral Kyron
P.S. - There's someone named 'Kyron' on the local BBS's in Chicago.
Do you play Bretai on Baron Realms Elite?
Eu-Ming Lee
[To James Macek:]
>I must compliment you on your wide range of vocabulary insults.
>Putz. Loser. Hick. Idiot.
Anyone here play StarCon II? If you do, you know what I'm thinking.
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>nw...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Nathan W Cromer) writes:
>>Pease see Q's post about balling from 3 inches, you putz. From now on I will
>>not honor you by assuming you know how to play basic Blanka.
>And I do not recognize moron Q as an authority. I DO NOT play
>Blanka, you putz. Jeez, IQ's drop lately?
You are so dumb, you can't figure out how to piss in your pants.
>have nothing to do with my sf2 reflexes. Moron. "Hand faking" is
>just another part of the game that you have to deal with. This is
>not a binary issue. There are many factors involved that will make
>Blanka lose....or Ken if he's bad.
>>Sometimes people fake the move. You are watching their hands, not the
>>screen. If you DP, you will git hit. Hell, he can even hit a button like
>>crouching jab, very short range. If you were expecting the crouching
>>fierce or roundhouse, and DP, you have been faked out, and will get hit.
>This is acceptable. A risk if you will. Blanka sticks his hand out
>risking being dp'ed. Ken dp's risking a fake.....that's why it's a game.
>Uncertainty and strategy.
HOLD ON!! I thought you were claiming that you would simply jab or DP
with your "button watching" skills. That is what we were arguing, and
that is what you claimed, not two days ago.
The uncertainty and "risks if you will" are nothing new to us, that is
what all Kens try to do against blanka. Everybody (at least here) tries
"Ken's dp risking a fake....." why do you change your story?
>>most of your previous post relied on how good you were and how much better
>>your Californian ass was better than all of Chicago. Sheesh. Must every
>>sentence be spoon-fed?
>If you put it there, be prepared to explain. Your response is sad
>because of your own logic. I never said I LIVED in California. I
>LIVE in Chicago. Loser. Maybe you should check the facts before
>your blatant sarcasm spills all over. Putz.
Who gives a shit? I can say I live on Jupiter. I can alter
my finger info to say so. How are we supposed to RESEARCH where
you live, and why should we care? What we were talking about
where you played. This is alt.games.sf2, isn't it? So, you
go to college in California, play at a college where the competition
is obviously better than at the local mall, then come to Chicago, play
at a couple local malls (or 20 for all I care) then assume that where you
happened to go to college is where all the sf2 GODS roam. If you want
to compare, why not go to a college in Illinois (UIUC) and play some
of the GOOD people down here, if you can beat Lord Baals blanka with
ken 8 times out of 10 (which should be so easy, watching buttons and all)
then you got something to brag about. You would probably end up losing
8 out of 10.
.
>>Shit man ... where'd you go to school? DID you go to school?
>>First off, I never made claims as to my playing skill. I don't
>>even play Blanka! (Vega and Ryu are my favourites, btw). And your logic
>>shows a serious lack of maturity, IMO.
No, his logic shows a serious lack of intelligence, it is not his fault that
he is stupid, so don't use that to excuse his lack of maturity.
>Foolish hick boy. I LIVE in Chicago, they SUCK...YOU SUCK. My
>netrek name is used in case anyone from netrek sites recognizes me.
>You fucking idiot. Admiral makes more sense now, doesn't it?
Do you miss the point entirely- you seem to do that FAIRLY REGULARLY.
He is mocking your faulty logic. Who cares about your glorious netrek
name? You call him a hick boy, and yet you still continue to use
the faulty logic that he is mocking....
You have yet to explain how reacting to someone hitting a button is any
different from reacting to the move on the screen.
James Macek
>I'll second that. In general, the universities are the SF2 hot-spots.
>Just ask yourself who's better: the guys at UIUC or your average 'mall
>master.'
Well, I'll have to question the example of UIUC.....:)
-Luddite
Crying Freeman
>jmm...@netcom.com (James Macek) writes:
>If you live in Chicago, email me a time and place and I will make an
>effort to play you. I agree with you that the competition is really
>bad. I have to drive hundreds of miles to Champaign just to play
>anyone decent. But if you play as good as you pose, then I will be
>amused. So far, all of the people I've met and played were rather
>poor players. But maybe they learned something.
>I'm going down to Champaign this weekend. Maybe I'll get some
>decent competition while I'm there.
Doubt it... I've been down here, and usually the machines are empty
these days... Actually, the only people I've seen play are Baal and
some high school scrubs... and each time it was against the computer...
I agree with the guy that said universities and schools are hotspots
of SF2 competition... Where else do you have the spare time and money
to spend at an arcade all day... I particularly remember one guy (Q..)
who spent his entire life at Space Port back during the Classic era...
(And he paid the "ultimate price"....)
We would drop in for a couple games after morning classes, he would be
there... We would drop in after our afternoon classes, he would be there...
We would stop by at night around 11pm, he would be there... It was scary..
(BTW, this is Q/Sarah Kellerman we are talking about...)
Of course, he could play an incredible Classic Ryu/Ken/Guile...
I think he pretty much mastered all the other characters too...
Another thing I agree with, Chicago in general is a pretty lame area
if you are looking for competition... Every time I've gone up there
and gone searching the arcades for competition, we either run into
A) scrubs who get scared away immediately
or
B) no throws who either whine and bitch about cheapness or steam quitely
and pull out Chun Li to tick you to death with... Of course,
they usually start muttering when it doesn't work...
My Chicago friends who dominate in their areas come down to Champaign
and get awed by the level of play when the regulars are about...
Anyways, using Chicago as a reference point is a pretty poor choice...
--
Che-Yuan Wang
cw2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
James Macek
>Also, you were mocking someone for not bothering to differentiate between
>Jim, and Bim, or whatever. Who gives a shit? Obviously both of you lameo's
>read the same net, so the message gets to you anyway.
No more sf2. Now the dirty work. Honey, I was flamed for something
my friend said. Granted, it was using my account, but still; would
you like to be flamed for something your friend did or said? Oh shit,
who the hell cares what you'd like? The message does get to me, but
it was not intended to be flamed at me--or should not have been.
>You are obviously an ugly fool. You have the I.Q. of a piece of dirt.
>I wonder, at times, why God put people as stupid as you on this planet.
>I guess that isn't fair though, even though you are obviously an ugly,
>stupid moron, you deserve to live, and think that you have discovered the
>ultimate long-hidden key to SFii - Button watching.
You've never seen me! I am not Ugly! Fool is sometimes debatable...
God did not put me on this planet you silly wind bag--there is no
god. God is dead. He never put anything here. This argument
falls short of influence on atheists. Only a fool would believe
in a god--but that's a different flame war altogether....Further, you
take my button watching out of proportion honey. Sarah, honey, there
are many aspects of the game....button watching can be important and
useful....that's all I said. Dirt has no I.Q. honey, so why not just
say I have no intelligence? So stupid....the putz God-fearing bitch
from the greatest school on the planet--UIUC...Go Illini! Yeee haww.
*yawn*
-
-Luddite
James Macek
>Button watching is silly. I use three fingers to cover the three buttons.
>you won't see my hand hovering over my button of choice. Come on, get real.
>I can do simple Ryu combos with one hand. My left hand flies from the joystick
>to the button and back to the button to complete a flying roundhouse/jab DP
>combo. In that span of 6 inches from the joystick to the buttons, you would
>not be able to predict which button I was going to press. Now try the same
>game with the fingers of my right hand hovering over the buttons.
You act as if I would stand drooling over your wonderful hands.
Please, spare us your ridiculous analysis of how you imagine I
would play. When you beat me, fine....until then....
*yawn*
-Luddite
James Macek
>If you live in Chicago, email me a time and place and I will make an
>effort to play you. I agree with you that the competition is really
>bad. I have to drive hundreds of miles to Champaign just to play
>anyone decent. But if you play as good as you pose, then I will be
>amused. So far, all of the people I've met and played were rather
>poor players. But maybe they learned something.
Problem. I'm at my dad's for the summer in the Bay Area. Then I go
to school in Atlanta for the rest of the year. I only hit Chicago
on the holidays. However, Nathan from Mississippi and I are thinking
of driving up there with some others from Tech to play. I'll mail
you guys or post here in the fall about that. That would be fun, I think.
>>-Admiral Kyron
>P.S. - There's someone named 'Kyron' on the local BBS's in Chicago.
>Do you play Bretai on Baron Realms Elite?
Kyron is another of my netrek characters. Not me on the BBS. However,
a friend of mine plays Breetai at sturgeon.cs.washington If you
play there....
-Luddite
James Macek
>nw...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Nathan W Cromer) writes:
>[To James Macek:]
>>I must compliment you on your wide range of vocabulary insults.
>>Putz. Loser. Hick. Idiot.
>Anyone here play StarCon II? If you do, you know what I'm thinking.
No recharging your ship at my expense...No Way! :) StarCon II
not bad....
-Luddite
James Macek
>You are so dumb, you can't figure out how to piss in your pants.
Sarah, dear; will you take my slab and move it to avoid the
inevitable mess then? *yawn*
>>This is acceptable. A risk if you will. Blanka sticks his hand out
>>risking being dp'ed. Ken dp's risking a fake.....that's why it's a game.
>>Uncertainty and strategy.
>HOLD ON!! I thought you were claiming that you would simply jab or DP
>with your "button watching" skills. That is what we were arguing, and
>that is what you claimed, not two days ago.
This is sad. I have to walk you through everything? As if I'd just stand
jabbing and dp when I need to. Soooo stupid. I'll react to different
situations and players in different manners. No one strategy works
all the time....*yawn* again....
>The uncertainty and "risks if you will" are nothing new to us, that is
>what all Kens try to do against blanka. Everybody (at least here) tries
>"Ken's dp risking a fake....." why do you change your story?
That's not all of it sister. I merely gave tips (way back) on how
to defensively defeat Blanka with some intial tips. Different
problems arise in different situations. I addressed these as they
came...along with the flame war. Never changed my story, just added
onto an incomplete one.
>Who gives a shit? I can say I live on Jupiter. I can alter
>my finger info to say so. How are we supposed to RESEARCH where
>you live, and why should we care? What we were talking about
>where you played. This is alt.games.sf2, isn't it? So, you
>go to college in California, play at a college where the competition
>is obviously better than at the local mall, then come to Chicago, play
>at a couple local malls (or 20 for all I care) then assume that where you
>happened to go to college is where all the sf2 GODS roam. If you want
>to compare, why not go to a college in Illinois (UIUC) and play some
>of the GOOD people down here, if you can beat Lord Baals blanka with
>ken 8 times out of 10 (which should be so easy, watching buttons and all)
>then you got something to brag about. You would probably end up losing
>8 out of 10.
Damn, read my post about the upcoming possible roadtrip. I'll come
up if possible. But again, read. I don't LIVE in California. So
stupid. How would you live on Jupiter? This, if it seems absurd,
is how you react to my statements. With stupid assumptions and
accusations. As for Ball boy, I'll play him. No predictions though,
because I realize i've never played him. Therefore i cannot
stoop to underestimating my opponents. I hope you guys underestimate
me. I really do, babe. Your final sentence is just a foolish
judgement because subconsciously you want me and can't have me. Therefore
you try to hurt me by stating Ball Boy can beat me......just accept
the love, let it flow....now will you marry me? :)
>No, his logic shows a serious lack of intelligence, it is not his fault that
>he is stupid, so don't use that to excuse his lack of maturity.
*yawn* Need more than that to prove my stupidity honey
>Do you miss the point entirely- you seem to do that FAIRLY REGULARLY.
>He is mocking your faulty logic. Who cares about your glorious netrek
>name? You call him a hick boy, and yet you still continue to use
>the faulty logic that he is mocking....
>You have yet to explain how reacting to someone hitting a button is any
>different from reacting to the move on the screen.
I don't have to...I miss the point for many reasons. One, your writing
sucks. Two, I may be tired and skim. Three, and most prevelent,
you have NO point. Moves on the button and screen....well, if he
is in a logical position to hit the key, I react...if not I don't...
sometimes I'm right, rarely I'm wrong....logic isn't the issue. I
can't effectively argue the human factor in winning. It's not
always about buttons and combos and characters....psyching you
opponent out.....that's the key. Coupled with the others...
You and Ball Boy figure it out. I'm too tired. But you may
hear from me in the fall.....so we can meet in person dearie.
-Luddite
John Nishinaga
jmm...@netcom.com (James Macek) writes:
> Ah yes, an Arizona constituent. Swell. California is a big state, son. LA
> is ok. Have you tried the schools? Maybe USC or drive north to UC
> Berkeley? Try them on for size, sucker.
every third Saturday with usually around 20-40 people. The "infamous" Tomo
(usually) attends as well as others from the southern California basin.
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
Crying Freeman
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>Sarah, dear; will you take my slab and move it to avoid the
>inevitable mess then? *yawn*
>That's not all of it sister. I merely gave tips (way back) on how
>to defensively defeat Blanka with some intial tips. Different
>me. I really do, babe. Your final sentence is just a foolish
>judgement because subconsciously you want me and can't have me. Therefore
>you try to hurt me by stating Ball Boy can beat me......just accept
>the love, let it flow....now will you marry me? :)
>*yawn* Need more than that to prove my stupidity honey
>hear from me in the fall.....so we can meet in person dearie.
Hope you realize that you are talking to a guy...
>-Luddite
--
Che-Yuan Wang
cw2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
d. rion hall
cw21219> jmm...@netcom.com (James Macek) writes:
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>Sarah, dear; will you take my slab and move it to avoid the inevitable mess
>then? *yawn*
>That's not all of it sister. I merely gave tips (way back) on how to
>defensively defeat Blanka with some intial tips. Different
>me. I really do, babe. Your final sentence is just a foolish judgement
>because subconsciously you want me and can't have me. Therefore
>you try to hurt me by stating Ball Boy can beat me......just accept the love,
>let it flow....now will you marry me? :)
>*yawn* Need more than that to prove my stupidity honey
>hear from me in the fall.....so we can meet in person dearie.
cw21219> Hope you realize that you are talking to a guy...
I believe the expression spoon-fed does come to mind... *laughs ass off*
just knowin' that they go to UIUC, you have to expect that... and he had the
nerve to call someone dense?? *ouch* my sides are hurtin'...
--
-d. rion hall-
<-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- *ri...@wpi.wpi.edu* --->
Raptor: (fr. Latin raptere, to ravish) a bird of prey, as the eagle or hawk,
characterized by carnivorous appetite, great powers of flight, and
extreme keenness of vision. -- not a bad description... of myself
d. rion hall
jmmacek> You've never seen me! I am not Ugly! Fool is sometimes debatable...
jmmacek> God did not put me on this planet you silly wind bag--there is no god.
jmmacek> God is dead. He never put anything here. This argument falls short
jmmacek> of influence on atheists. Only a fool would believe in a god--but
jmmacek> that's a different flame war altogether....Further, you take my button
jmmacek> watching out of proportion honey. Sarah, honey, there are many
jmmacek> aspects of the game....button watching can be important and
jmmacek> useful....that's all I said. Dirt has no I.Q. honey, so why not just
jmmacek> say I have no intelligence? So stupid....the putz God-fearing bitch
^^^^^
jmmacek> from the greatest school on the planet--UIUC...Go Illini! Yeee haww.
uh... talk 'bout not knowin' who you're talkin' about... wasn't this cleared up
a loooong time ago?
Naval Ravikant
> >see the limb coming, you will be hit because you have lost the defensive
> >crouch position .... not even the best can rip off the DP as soon as they
> >see a fist coming at them ... put simply: the milli-second required for the
> >attack to hit you is just too fast to respond to. You have to outguess
> >Blanka if you wanna hit 'im ... and I would imagine that the Blanka is
> >playing haphazardly and is hard to anticipate, if he's any good.
>
> That's why watching buttons and fast dp'ing is almost unstoppable...
> Blankas can be tough, but a well played (note not master) Ryu/Ken
> is too much for the green chump.
>
Doesn't anyone see how ridiculous this whole argument is? Euming is
on the right track when he talks about reflexes. The fact of the matter
is, people, no matter how good they are in theory, screw up. You guys
are offering perfect strategies that, if played out, would lead to a
draw game every time. You can't anticipate everything, react to
everything, and perform perfectly all the time. Therefore, you won't
really know whose Ryu would beat whose Blanka until they have a go at
it, so kill this thread already.
- Naval
" Then...something shuffles, out of sight...something sucks the stale
air...and hisses. Gliding with ancient grace...eyes gleaming untouched
by love or joy or sorrow...breath hot with the taste of fallen
foes...the stench of dead things, damned things...surely the fiercest
survivor...the purest warrior...glaring, hating...claiming me as your
own." - Frank Miller
Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu Dar...@coos.dartmouth.edu
Philip John Stroffolino
> Doesn't anyone see how ridiculous this whole argument is? Euming is
>on the right track when he talks about reflexes. The fact of the matter
>is, people, no matter how good they are in theory, screw up. You guys
>are offering perfect strategies that, if played out, would lead to a
>draw game every time. You can't anticipate everything, react to
>everything, and perform perfectly all the time. Therefore, you won't
>really know whose Ryu would beat whose Blanka until they have a go at
>it, so kill this thread already.
The argument is for a very specific situation: Blanka is crouching,
charged just out of Ken(Ryu's) roundhouse sweep range.
An experienced Blanka player (not me :^) *can* react to a fireball
(within the realm of humanly possible reflexes) and punish the Ken/Ryu
player. However, human Ryu/Ken's cannot reflexively react to a close
range (fast) Blanka ball with a DP. That is why most Ryu/Ken players
will jab spasmatically against Blanka. But while a Ryu/Ken jabs, he's
vulnerable to a quick Blanka sweep.
In this situation Blanka has a distinct advantage. Anticipatory Ryu/Ken
DPs are very bad when they miss. Ryu/Ken would be better off suddenly
advancing for a surprise throw/last second DP.
- Phil
Sung H. Yi
>eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Eu-Ming Lee) writes:
>>>-Admiral Kyron
>-Luddite
>--
> or | Do you still hear me?
Yah, yah, we've heard it all before, let's meet here, let's meet there,
never any results. The last time I posted my Univ. Michigan Challenge,
people from 3 schools said they should be able to stop by (Wisconsin,
Mississippi, a little interest from uiuc). I've thinking about driving
down to somewhere now that it's summer, but the great sf2 conglomerations
have broken up and everyone's gone home and you'll likely only find one or
two decent players in one place.
Lord Baal
>An experienced Blanka player (not me :^) *can* react to a fireball
>(within the realm of humanly possible reflexes) and punish the Ken/Ryu
>player. However, human Ryu/Ken's cannot reflexively react to a close
>range (fast) Blanka ball with a DP. That is why most Ryu/Ken players
>will jab spasmatically against Blanka. But while a Ryu/Ken jabs, he's
>vulnerable to a quick Blanka sweep.
To reasonable people i thing it would make sense that blanka
can react to kens fireball dp etc... while it is much harder
to react to blankas ball especially at close range....now
reasonally speaking the blanka does have the advantage...
not only that i kick ass when i play blanka so its no contest
admiral luddick 1 Lord baal 9 (i'll give him one, sometimes
i get tired after playing for a while and i start to
play sloppy...ahhaha
(_______)
\ \ / /
\ /
____________\_/
/|| ||
/ || 666 ||
/ ||_________||
* || ||
"" ""
To Foolish Mortals, God is a Cow......
Lord Baal....
Sima Yi
>>a friend of mine plays Breetai at sturgeon.cs.washington If you
>>play there....
Kyron? Is this the same Kyron that originated from the CMU netrek horde?
Used to play alot with the Gaming Club and with Pendragon and Krang? Exxon
Valdez, Mr. Bronco himself?
> Yah, yah, we've heard it all before, let's meet here, let's meet there,
>never any results. The last time I posted my Univ. Michigan Challenge,
>people from 3 schools said they should be able to stop by (Wisconsin,
>Mississippi, a little interest from uiuc). I've thinking about driving
>down to somewhere now that it's summer, but the great sf2 conglomerations
>have broken up and everyone's gone home and you'll likely only find one or
>two decent players in one place.
Yeah, get togethers are hard to plan unless you already have some friends
around who can go hopping. Even so, it's hard to tell when is a good day.
Sometimes you're lucky and find enough competition to play and sometimes
nothing.
In any event, this thread has gotten very lame.
//Lui
--
//Lui Sieh |How seldom we weigh our neighbor in the same
Mail: si...@panix.com |balance with ourselves. -- Thomas A Kempis
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: These are my opinions...but others may share them as well
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>>You are so dumb, you can't figure out how to piss in your pants.
>Sarah, dear; will you take my slab and move it to avoid the
>inevitable mess then? *yawn*
>>>This is acceptable. A risk if you will. Blanka sticks his hand out
>>>risking being dp'ed. Ken dp's risking a fake.....that's why it's a game.
>>>Uncertainty and strategy.
>>HOLD ON!! I thought you were claiming that you would simply jab or DP
>>with your "button watching" skills. That is what we were arguing, and
>>that is what you claimed, not two days ago.
>This is sad. I have to walk you through everything? As if I'd just stand
>jabbing and dp when I need to. Soooo stupid. I'll react to different
>situations and players in different manners. No one strategy works
>all the time....*yawn* again....
I believe I already described the specific situation I was talking about.
The rest of your crap about reacting differently to different situations, blah
, blah is given- everyone does that. In case you forgot, the situation
involved blanka sitting 3 inches away, and balling and random intervals-
"no one strategy works all the time....*yawn* again." This is an obvious
statement, again avoiding the point- The strategy in question is
button watching- which you have still failed to explain why it gives you
the abiility to reflexively dp blanka's ball.
>>The uncertainty and "risks if you will" are nothing new to us, that is
>>what all Kens try to do against blanka. Everybody (at least here) tries
>>"Ken's dp risking a fake....." why do you change your story?
>That's not all of it sister. I merely gave tips (way back) on how
>to defensively defeat Blanka with some intial tips. Different
>problems arise in different situations. I addressed these as they
>came...along with the flame war. Never changed my story, just added
>onto an incomplete one.
Gave tips on how to beat blanka. It seems that your claims seem to
reduce in splendor from day to day. "Well I was just giving tips...."
>>Who gives a shit? I can say I live on Jupiter. I can alter
>>my finger info to say so. How are we supposed to RESEARCH where
>>you live, and why should we care? What we were talking about
>>where you played. This is alt.games.sf2, isn't it? So, you
>>go to college in California, play at a college where the competition
>>is obviously better than at the local mall, then come to Chicago, play
>>at a couple local malls (or 20 for all I care) then assume that where you
>>happened to go to college is where all the sf2 GODS roam. If you want
>>to compare, why not go to a college in Illinois (UIUC) and play some
>>of the GOOD people down here, if you can beat Lord Baals blanka with
>>ken 8 times out of 10 (which should be so easy, watching buttons and all)
>>then you got something to brag about. You would probably end up losing
>>8 out of 10.
>Damn, read my post about the upcoming possible roadtrip. I'll come
>up if possible. But again, read. I don't LIVE in California. So
>stupid. How would you live on Jupiter? This, if it seems absurd,
How would I live on Jupiter? Damn, your smart.
I know you don't LIVE in California, I merely said you went to college
in California. Where, have I ever said that you LIVED in California?
Nonetheless, my point, which you so blatantly missed, was that we
don't care where you LIVE, we care where you PLAY.
>is how you react to my statements. With stupid assumptions and
>accusations. As for Ball boy, I'll play him. No predictions though,
>because I realize i've never played him. Therefore i cannot
>stoop to underestimating my opponents. I hope you guys underestimate
>me. I really do, babe. Your final sentence is just a foolish
>judgement because subconsciously you want me and can't have me. Therefore
>you try to hurt me by stating Ball Boy can beat me......just accept
>the love, let it flow....now will you marry me? :)
>>No, his logic shows a serious lack of intelligence, it is not his fault that
>>he is stupid, so don't use that to excuse his lack of maturity.
>*yawn* Need more than that to prove my stupidity honey
I don't think so.
>Jim, gt7...@prism.gatech.edu or
>jmm...@netcom.com (matters not)
<annoying 10-page long sig deleted>
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>No more sf2. Now the dirty work. Honey, I was flamed for something
>my friend said. Granted, it was using my account, but still; would
>you like to be flamed for something your friend did or said? Oh shit,
>who the hell cares what you'd like? The message does get to me, but
>it was not intended to be flamed at me--or should not have been.
Big deal, you know who the post was intended for, and so does your friend.
What is the point?
>>You have the I.Q. of a piece of dirt.
*******************************************************************************
>Dirt has no I.Q. honey, so why not just
>say I have no intelligence?
*******************************************************************************
I am sorry, your right- I should have said "you have no intelligence" instead.
If I had read the very sentence I wrote, I would have realized that.
It is just too hard the other way. Gee, I hope you never have to read any
books that might have HARD STUFF like analogies, similies, or hyperbole:
Poem by James Marcek:
Trees are pretty
I dont see other things prettier than trees
I like them
James Macek
>cw21219> Hope you realize that you are talking to a guy...
>I believe the expression spoon-fed does come to mind... *laughs ass off*
>just knowin' that they go to UIUC, you have to expect that... and he had the
>nerve to call someone dense?? *ouch* my sides are hurtin'...
Yeah, of course I know it's a guy. It's the 90's guys.....As for above,
I have trouble understanding. I do not go to UIUC, as you indicate.
Putz.
James Macek
>jmmacek> say I have no intelligence? So stupid....the putz God-fearing bitch
> ^^^^^
>uh... talk 'bout not knowin' who you're talkin' about... wasn't this cleared up
>a loooong time ago?
It's too bad really. Engendering on the Net is difficult. But I call
boys bitch all the time. Just depends on who it is.....Not all of
us are heterosexual studs like you Hall Boy....plus I just started
reading the group....*yawn*
James Macek
>Hope you realize that you are talking to a guy...
Your point being?
James Macek
>In article <209tan$a...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu> sun...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu
>(Sung H. Yi) writes:
>Kyron? Is this the same Kyron that originated from the CMU netrek horde?
>Used to play alot with the Gaming Club and with Pendragon and Krang? Exxon
>Valdez, Mr. Bronco himself?
No, I'm relatively new....only played about a year....those guys go
way back....I have played with MUCUS PIG and Passing Wind on
occasion....Luddite is my better character....Kyron was my first.
>In any event, this thread has gotten very lame.
Agreed.....
-Luddite
--
Jim, gt7...@prism.gatech.edu or
jmm...@netcom.com (matters not)
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyman His Own Wife, | Do you still see me?
or | Do you still hear me?
James Macek
> not only that i kick ass when i play blanka so its no contest
> admiral luddick 1 Lord baal 9 (i'll give him one, sometimes
> i get tired after playing for a while and i start to
> play sloppy...ahhaha
*YAWN* very loudly.....Ball Boy, I've lost count of your predictions.
When you do it, fine...but till then just learn how to write with
punctuation. From my guess that you do know how to play, I'd
be apt to predict 6-4 either way.....that's a little more logical.
Or maybe i should start saying something like, "I'm gonna bounce
Ball Boy all over the CRT"....*yawn*...sleepy
James Macek
[boring driveling deleted]
>How would I live on Jupiter? Damn, your smart.
>I know you don't LIVE in California, I merely said you went to college
>in California. Where, have I ever said that you LIVED in California?
>Nonetheless, my point, which you so blatantly missed, was that we
>don't care where you LIVE, we care where you PLAY.
But I don't go to college in California. Jeez. I PLAY in
California, Georgia, and Illinois--the best being California
This based on 3 years experience...
Is this gonna be 15 responses? Boring....
--
Jim, gt7...@prism.gatech.edu or
jmm...@netcom.com (matters not)
James Macek
>Big deal, you know who the post was intended for, and so does your friend.
>What is the point?
I do? Really? How do you know? I didn't know anything about it till
it was up on the group...
>I am sorry, your right- I should have said "you have no intelligence" instead.
>If I had read the very sentence I wrote, I would have realized that.
>It is just too hard the other way. Gee, I hope you never have to read any
>books that might have HARD STUFF like analogies, similies, or hyperbole:
Well, as a matter of fact, I do read books like these. That's why I
like things matter-of-factly on the Net. Makes life easier. I
prefer onomotopeia and alliteration to hyperbole and analogies....and
metaphors to similies. But no need for that lecture. What book shall
be discuss Sarah? (this would be a pseudonym, right?) I'm game
for anything....
>Poem by James Marcek:
Too bad straight reading is a problem for you....it's MACEK, no r.
Damn....no similies or analogies or anything--just a word....
>Trees are pretty
>I dont see other things prettier than trees
>I like them
Hmmm. Has potential....maybe you could change it into a haiku?
Free verse is so blase'
d. rion hall
jmmacek> ri...@wpi.WPI.EDU (d. rion hall) writes:
>jmmacek> say I have no intelligence? So stupid....the putz God-fearing bitch
>uh... talk 'bout not knowin' who you're talkin' about... wasn't this cleared
>up a loooong time ago?
jmmacek> It's too bad really. Engendering on the Net is difficult. But I call
jmmacek> boys bitch all the time. Just depends on who it is.....Not all of us
jmmacek> are heterosexual studs like you Hall Boy....plus I just started
jmmacek> reading the group....*yawn*
I know... I know... I'm just too cool... way too much a stud... not at all like
some dweeb sittin' at some terminal with testerone overload on the net. btw: I
just started readin' this group too... but I'm not as likely to assume, mon
ami... esp. with UIUC. and who are you callin' boy? *raise eyebrow*
--
-d. rion hall-
______ __ ______ __ __ we are the music makers,
/ __ // // __ // |/ / and we are the dreamer of dreams,
/ __ _// // /_/ // | / / wandering lone sea breakers,
/_/ |_|/_//_____//_/|__/ and sitting by desolate streams.
d. rion hall
jmmacek> ri...@wpi.WPI.EDU (d. rion hall) writes:
>cw21219> Hope you realize that you are talking to a guy...
>I believe the expression spoon-fed does come to mind... *laughs ass off* just
>knowin' that they go to UIUC, you have to expect that... and he had the nerve
>to call someone dense?? *ouch* my sides are hurtin'...
jmmacek> Yeah, of course I know it's a guy. It's the 90's guys.....As for
jmmacek> above, I have trouble understanding. I do not go to UIUC, as you
jmmacek> indicate. Putz.
Yo... buddy boy... talkin' 'bout this sarah kay chick... of course I couldn't
be talkin' 'bout you... the UIUC group is soo much more eloquent with the flame
than one such as thou... putz indeed... how imaginative... how insightful...
how provocative... how simply... simple... albeit simple minds, simple
pleasures... grow up, mon ami, and get a life, instead of addin' embers to the
fire. Better yet, get a thesaurus.
Lord Baal
>>Trees are pretty
>>I dont see other things prettier than trees
>>I like them
>Hmmm. Has potential....maybe you could change it into a haiku?
>Free verse is so blase'
>-Luddite
>--
Wow....he knows about poems...! i'm impressed...
i've guessed that you are a little scrawny fool who finds
the net very appealing since you really dont have to face
anyone....do you actually think that your little pseudo
intellectual attempt at impressing us with your knowledge
of poetry and the english grammar is really that impressive?
its kinda funny how you claim that you have trouble reading
because other peoples writing is so bad.... maybe
it just goes to show that you are not that intelligent, (
this of course is just my opinion) By the way arent you the
one who saw the four hit dp combo with ken (standing up) ??
hahahahahhaah
James Macek
>I know... I know... I'm just too cool... way too much a stud... not at all like
>some dweeb sittin' at some terminal with testerone overload on the net. btw: I
Who the hell ever said I was a guy? Damn, your assumptions are a little
on the superficial side. Ronin, gender really shouldn't be the issue,
now should it?
>just started readin' this group too... but I'm not as likely to assume, mon
>ami... esp. with UIUC. and who are you callin' boy? *raise eyebrow*
Sonny, I'll agree UIUC is, um, "progressive". Who are YOU calling
boy? (the gender issue for the impaired)...
-Admiral Luddite
James Macek
> Wow....he knows about poems...! i'm impressed...
> i've guessed that you are a little scrawny fool who finds
> the net very appealing since you really dont have to face
> anyone....do you actually think that your little pseudo
> intellectual attempt at impressing us with your knowledge
> of poetry and the english grammar is really that impressive?
> its kinda funny how you claim that you have trouble reading
> because other peoples writing is so bad.... maybe
> it just goes to show that you are not that intelligent, (
> this of course is just my opinion) By the way arent you the
> one who saw the four hit dp combo with ken (standing up) ??
> hahahahahhaah
As for Ken's four hit combo, I never said ANYTHING about it. But then, you
don't read disclaimers. Poems? Would you like to talk? I'm game. Your
opinion of my intelligence is noted--though ignored--and I only have
one comment. I see an exclamation mark and a question mark in
your post: well done sonny. Ball Boy, I already e-mailed you my
measurements. You're 6'4", right? I'm 6'3". Not too scrawny from
your perspective. Now if you'd only try periods and capital letters.....
nah, you're above that, right? You've transcended the laws of
communication.
blah, cough, *yawn*
Sarah Kay Ellerman
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>>Poem by James Marcek:
>Too bad straight reading is a problem for you....it's MACEK, no r.
>Damn....no similies or analogies or anything--just a word....
That comeback (picking on a typo) was almost as good as the "dirt has no
intelligence, so why not say I have no intelligence" line.
<annoying sig deleted>
Amir Shaikh
Well, I'm having trouble against my roommate who plays Blanka often. My
favorite characters are Ryu and Ken, but I just can't beat him. Ok, here's
why I'm suffering from Blanka. When he plays Blanka, he keeps certain distance
from me. He constantly uses his round house or crouching fierce which has an
incredible range, and if I shoot the fireball, the he jumps up and gives me a
perfect 3 hit combo and dizzies me. He does that triple hit combo again
(which is Jumping fierce, standing strong, and a round house), and he usually
jumps when I am knocked dowm and hit me with fierce. Even if I block, he
starts bites me, and I really can't counter throw since Blanka has much longer
range then Ryu and Ken. When I try to neck kick him and try to do some combo,
he uses rolling attack or standing fierce in perfect timing. The thing is, if
I star him once, the I can usually finish him off with Ryu or Ken's re-dizzy
jab tripple dp (which doesn't work everytime, but sometimes)... I get so
frustrated about his Blanka. By the way, I consider myself a pretty good Ryu
or Ken player, since I know how to fireball trap, TOD, and several other
combos. By the way, I tried to shoot a fireball and sweep him when he lands
with round house, but he uses his round house when he jumps and it always hits
me. Please, I need help from real masters, if you call yourself so.
Thanx in advance.
Brian Choi
P.S. I'm talking about SNES version of the game. However, advice about CE or
HF also will be greatly appreciated.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I guess one way would be to fake a fireball causing him to jump on you,
then dragon punch.
As far as sweeping his jump after a fireball, you must be standing too close.
Usually you have to walk in a step during his jump and sweep to avoid his
roundhouse jump.
The only way I know to outreach his jumping kick is to jump straight
up in the air and kick as opposed to jumping towards him and kicking.
BTW anybody know why the HF for the SNES is 20Megbits?
I mean, what is the maximum adressing capabilities of the SNES?
later,
Amir
******************************************
The best sig is no sig.
sha...@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.ca
******************************************
James Macek
>That comeback (picking on a typo) was almost as good as the "dirt has no
>intelligence, so why not say I have no intelligence" line.
Comeback? I thought it was just a point. You have trouble spelling,
typing, or reading. Probably the last....Letter Boy (Q, right?),
you're almost as bad as Ball Boy. Another resounding yawn. Strange
genetic experiments at UIUC? Big Ball Boy at 6'3" and Letter Boy the
experiment in brain deprivation. Funny stuff going on in the corn
fields...news at 11. What newsgroup is this? Alt.flame? Shall we
take it there and stick to sf2 here? I'm tired of straining through
Ball Boy's writing and Letter Boy's reading. 2 of the three r's are
being ignored up there. I have one question about the "fairly regularly"
fiasco. Wasn't the word fairly surrounded by quotations? This would
change everything....
-Luddite
,
><annoying sig deleted>
d. rion hall
>>>>> ri...@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (d. rion hall) writes:
>I know... I know... I'm just too cool... way too much a stud... not at all
>like some dweeb sittin' at some terminal with testerone overload on the net.
>btw: I
jmmacek> Who the hell ever said I was a guy? Damn, your assumptions are a
jmmacek> little on the superficial side. Ronin, gender really shouldn't be the
jmmacek> issue, now should it?
hey... if you want to call youself a bitch... fine with me... (I would never
label you a femme... or the normal standard... way too much a blemish upon
their record, mon ami) As for testerone... hold it! I believe y'all need some
balls first... guess you failed that test... hmm... don't know what to call you
then... let's just call 'em jamie... it's a general neuter style name...
yeah... that'll work.
>just started readin' this group too... but I'm not as likely to assume, mon
>ami... esp. with UIUC. and who are you callin' boy? *raise eyebrow*
jmmacek> Sonny, I'll agree UIUC is, um, "progressive". Who are YOU calling
jmmacek> boy? (the gender issue for the impaired)...
progressive? they're downright totalled... and have way too many people on the
net... but that's fine... as for you m(r/s). macek... (mayhap just m. if it
wants to be sexless, it be sexless... hey, no prob... it's his lack that shall
be our gain) internet access might be too generous a gift... you've got to
crawl 'fore you can flame.
jmmacek> -Admiral Luddite
admiral? well... you know what they say 'bout the navy... *shrug* (not my
unsual intellectual self? mayhap... then again, it's the lack of sleep, the
onset of insomnia... the excessive caffiene levels in my body... and the
failure of the pool bein' open... the lack of chlorine does funny things to a
swimmer's head... ;).
Eu-Ming Lee
>ske4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Sarah Kay Ellerman ) writes:
>>That comeback (picking on a typo) was almost as good as the "dirt has no
>>intelligence, so why not say I have no intelligence" line.
>Comeback? I thought it was just a point. You have trouble spelling,
>typing, or reading. Probably the last....Letter Boy (Q, right?),
No, you spelled it wrong. It's q, not Q. Sheesh, you must the only
person stupid enough to spell a one letter name wrong.
>-Luddite
What happened to the 'Admiral'? Got kicked out of the military for
... I don't wanna know!
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"I was shipwrecked with this frog who was constantly testing my faith. He
made outrageous demands. I ignored them. One day I strapped on my boat to
freedom and sailed into shore. He's not touching me anymore."
Philip John Stroffolino
>your post: well done sonny. Ball Boy, I already e-mailed you my
>measurements. You're 6'4", right? I'm 6'3". Not too scrawny from
>your perspective. Now if you'd only try periods and capital letters.....
What's being tall got to do with not being scrawny? Vega isn't exactly
a beefy stud...
I'm 8 feet tall, weigh 350 pounds, and can easily press double my weight!!! :^)
Top that!!!
Little Phil
James Macek
>hey... if you want to call youself a bitch... fine with me... (I would never
"bitch". Hmmm. Many girlfriends? Guess not with that attitude....
>jmmacek> -Admiral Luddite
>admiral? well... you know what they say 'bout the navy... *shrug* (not my
>unsual intellectual self? mayhap... then again, it's the lack of sleep, the
>onset of insomnia... the excessive caffiene levels in my body... and the
>failure of the pool bein' open... the lack of chlorine does funny things to a
>swimmer's head... ;).
Hmmm. You missed my explaination on this. Ever play Netrek?
-Luddite
James Macek
>No, you spelled it wrong. It's q, not Q. Sheesh, you must the only
>person stupid enough to spell a one letter name wrong.
Hmmm....spelling looks ok to me. As for the capititalization, as it is
called in grammar circles, who could've know? The vast majority of
names begin with capitals--in fact names are defined thus as being "proper".
Too bad Star Trek bad-guy-wanna-be....
>What happened to the 'Admiral'? Got kicked out of the military for
>... I don't wanna know!
Starfleet does not like to endorse individual disputs....but as Admiral
I do as I will.
-Admiral Luddite
Frank Kuan
I've found that it's very difficult for me to beat master ryus with guile.
How many times have master guiles found themselves dominating a game
psycologically and ahead in damage only to suddenly lose because of
one lucky hurricane kick (launched from ground) that:
1) does a knockdown and a dizzy because you had been trading backhands
for fireballs and winning in damage but losing in the unbalanced
dizzy meter.
2) gambling on trading a crouching upppercut with the hurricane kick and
a) ryu knocks you down and suffers no damage for the trade
b) you both get hit but ryu wins the damage trade
3) ryu lands real close to you, before you autoface in the right direction
he crouching shorts you into insta-dizzy with 3 or 4 toe clips?
4) you get hit if you try to razor kick while he's right over you
5) you miss if you try to razor kick while he's passing over you, and he
immediately retaliates with a dp.
6) you stick out your leg to hit him as he lands, but he is mysteriously
able to go into crouching block before you hit him.
7) instead of low blocking, you do a high block so that you can throw
his ass when he lands, only to have a charged sonic boom quote
heard while you are getting hit.
8) you do a high block so you can throw his ass, careful not to keep a
sonic boom charge, but ryu gets you with the crouching short
when the throw should have been yours. And a dizzy usually follows.
9) you don't do any damage trades for fear of getting dizzy, and you
get pushed into the corner and get fireball trapped to death.
10) watching a ryu anticipating your sonic boom, you fake a sonic
boom, he hk's, you backhand slap and more often than not, you
lose the gamble. An instant razor kick would sure help in this
situation.
11) You try a flurry of standing jabs, which works wonders against
blanka ball and bison scissor kick. No luck here.
I'm interested in hearing about the experience of others regarding
item (8). How often can you high block their hk and throw them as they
land? For me, it's usually about 50% on an average day, and 70% on a good
day and my timing is down pat. But I still get crouching shorted an
appreciable number of times when attempting this maneuver.
Are there any better tactics than item (8) to punish an hk hapy ryu with?
I have no fear of ryu's hk when launched from the air. I can throw him
on the landing about 99% of the time.
Has any guile master out there had any success with crouching fierce
into a ryu ground launched hk? If so, what's the timing? Is it possible
to time it based on the whooshing sound effect made by the hk?
Ken's hurricane kick is a joke. I can crouching fierce punch it with
impunity. I can follow in a slow sonic boom. So what if I get hit
with a ground launched hk? I can immediately retaliate with a crouching
fierce and win the damage trade.
Why do guiles persist in hf? Are we masochists? The reason I still
play guile even though he's handicapped is he has style. The ultimate
diss is doing an air throw to a ryu jumping over your sonic boom.
Once in a while. I can air throw them out of an hk. I LIVE for that.
Quite often, I'll be at an ideal guile distance for jumping in, where
my air roundhouse is just enough to smack them in the face as I jump in.
If you start your fireball too late, my foot
will be in your mouth. If you've recovered from your fireball and have time
to dp, I might stick my leg out so you can dp it. Just to lull you into
a sense of security. Next time I jump in, maybe I won't stick my leg
out. You'll go for the dp. I'll throw you.
I don't tick unless my opponent ticks me, but I do like to fake a tick
by following in a slow sonic boom and doing an upside down kick. Works
once in a while if they think you're desperate to catch up.
Another classic guile moment: You smell a fireball coming up. You try to
time a backhand for a trade. Your backhand hits ryu just as he starts the
fireball motion but before the fireball but before the ball is released!
BONUS!
- persistent guile player
Seth James Killian
>On sf2:hyperfighting:
>I've found that it's very difficult for me to beat master ryus with guile.
>How many times have master guiles found themselves dominating a game
>psycologically and ahead in damage only to suddenly lose because of
>one lucky hurricane kick (launched from ground) that:
Well, on HF, it shouldn't take a lucky Hurricane Kick for
Ryu to beat Guile, but anyway...
>I'm interested in hearing about the experience of others regarding
>item (8). How often can you high block their hk and throw them as they
>land? For me, it's usually about 50% on an average day, and 70% on a good
>day and my timing is down pat. But I still get crouching shorted an
>appreciable number of times when attempting this maneuver.
Well, with these percentages, I would say your timing is
*not* down pat, but there is another explanation. Once in a while,
Ryu (or more often Ken's) HK will push you back in such a way as
to finally push you out of throw range when you land. It is all
dependent on the spacing of the first blocked strike, but even so
it is rather rare, and still avoidable. If you learn to recognize
that you will be pushed too far back to throw, duck under every
other strike. This will allow the HK to get "more inside" on you,
and assure that you will end up within range for an easy throw.
I usually do this regardless, as it lessens the block damage I have
to take to get my throw. Just be careful not to let the HK "get
behind you" such that you stand up into it and it connects from
behind. This is not too tough to see and space accordingly.
Also, a well timed crouching fierce will knock them out
of it everytime. I will not attempt to describe the spacing here,
as it is way too precise to be easily conveyed over the net. In
any case, the throw always does more damage, and is easier to time.
There is no way that you should be getting hit with crouching short
kicks after an HK. If you can't throw him, then he pushed you out
of range, but is himself also out of range for short kicks. The
answer is very likely your timing itself if this is the case. If
you are a giant chicken, the "extended" standing jab should knock
Ryu out consistently, but this is really passing up a lot more
potential damage. Once you perfect this timing, you will find Ryu
very hesitant to HK so freely...
..
>Why do guiles persist in hf? Are we masochists? The reason I still
>play guile even though he's handicapped is he has style. The ultimate
Handicapped my butt. I hate whiny Guile's, moaning for
their glory days on Classic where no one could beat them. Truth
be told, Guile still has a painfully large advantage over a number
of characters, Ryu just does not happen to be one of them.
Seth Killian
John Nishinaga
ku...@dms.agames.com (Frank Kuan) writes:
> I've found that it's very difficult for me to beat master ryus with guile.
little into HF that I figured out that the problem is that too many people play
Guile's in the old (classic) style...
> How many times have master guiles found themselves dominating a game
> psycologically and ahead in damage only to suddenly lose because of one
> lucky hurricane kick (launched from ground) that:
>
> 1) does a knockdown and a dizzy because you had been trading backhands
> for fireballs and winning in damage but losing in the unbalanced
> dizzy meter.
immedietely thereafter avoid getting hit again, which includes not trading.
Otherwise you're just asking to get dizzy.
> 2) gambling on trading a crouching upppercut with the hurricane kick and
> a) ryu knocks you down and suffers no damage for the trade
> b) you both get hit but ryu wins the damage trade
> ryu ground launched hk? If so, what's the timing? Is it possible to time it
> based on the whooshing sound effect made by the hk?
trade (I haven't seen otherwise). Secondly, if you time it right, it will
always counter (no trade). What's the timing? Well, against a Roundhouse
Hurricane Kick, hold Offensive Crouch so that when Ryu passes over you
(technically) Guile will turn around. As soon as this occurs, hit Fierce and
enjoy a clean hit. Other situations that are more subtle (Short Hurricane
Kicks, etc.) and are kind of hard to describe when/how to hit but they come
intuitively with practice.
> 4) you get hit if you try to razor kick while he's right over you
>
> 5) you miss if you try to razor kick while he's passing over you, and he
> immediately retaliates with a dp.
> 3) ryu lands real close to you, before you autoface in the right direction
> he crouching shorts you into insta-dizzy with 3 or 4 toe clips?
> able to go into crouching block before you hit him.
>
> 7) instead of low blocking, you do a high block so that you can throw
> his ass when he lands, only to have a charged sonic boom quote
> heard while you are getting hit.
>
> 8) you do a high block so you can throw his ass, careful not to keep a
> sonic boom charge, but ryu gets you with the crouching short
> when the throw should have been yours. And a dizzy usually follows.
> How often can you high block their hk and throw them as they land? For me,
> it's usually about 50% on an average day, and 70% on a good day and my
> timing is down pat. But I still get crouching shorted an appreciable number
> of times when attempting this maneuver.
Ryu _can_ counter with a Dragon Punch or Hurricane Kick upon landing.
Remember of the old saying, "if you blocked, you could have Dragon Punch'd."
Fortunately, if Ryu tries anything else (Short Kick, Throw, Jump, etc.), you
will always be able to throw him provided you time it correctly.
If Ryu is hitting you with Short Kicks, all you need to do is learn to time
your throws better.
> 9) you don't do any damage trades for fear of getting dizzy, and you
> get pushed into the corner and get fireball trapped to death.
it's impracticle to fight with fireballs, what you need to do is play Guile
more like Chun Li. Guile is fast, he has a long range hit (crouching
Foward), good aireal counter (close idle Foward and far standing Roundhouse),
and an awesome fireball trader (far standing Roundhouse).
Basically what I do is I hover just outside of Ryu's kick range and just kind
of dance around. If Ryu throws a fireball I trade with Roundhouse for
approximately 2 times the damage. If Ryu jumps, I can do one of my aireal
counters and if he Hurricane Kicks, he gets fist fucked. The problem with
this style is that you can't afford to get faked (which can happen quite
easily). One missed standing Roundhouse and you're leg is gonna get pounded.
Anybody else play this or a similar style?
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
Brian Chan
> answer is very likely your timing itself if this is the case. If
> you are a giant chicken, the "extended" standing jab should knock
> Ryu out consistently, but this is really passing up a lot more
> potential damage. Once you perfect this timing, you will find Ryu
> very hesitant to HK so freely...
> ..
Guile's "extended" standing jab? Wasn't that taken out waaaaay back in CE?
Back in the CE days, my Guile could consistently hit Ryu/Ken's out of HK,
but due to the speed in HF, it's a lot harder (not to mention I more or less
quit playing Guile in HF, since most of the people out there play Ryu/Ken)
>>Why do guiles persist in hf? Are we masochists? The reason I still
>>play guile even though he's handicapped is he has style. The ultimate
> Handicapped my butt. I hate whiny Guile's, moaning for
> their glory days on Classic where no one could beat them. Truth
> be told, Guile still has a painfully large advantage over a number
> of characters, Ryu just does not happen to be one of them.
Classic was a bit too unfair. I moan for the CE days where I still might win
against Ryu/Ken :) And although it is true that Guile has a tremendously
large advantage over a lot of characters, he is painfully outmatched against
the Ken's/Ryu's/Sagat's that everyone plays around here...not to mention
Guile vs Guile puts me to sleep :)
Brian Chan
cha...@sfu.ca
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Chan ~{3B<S6w~} | Internet : cha...@sfu.ca |
| Faculty of Applied Science | brian...@sfu.ca |
| Simon Fraser University | Bitnet : chanav@SFUVAX |
Brian Chan
>If you get hit with a Fireball (or any Fierce/Roundhouse attack), you should
>immedietely thereafter avoid getting hit again, which includes not trading.
>Otherwise you're just asking to get dizzy.
One of my biggest gripes about HF is the ease of dizzying-Fireball, <pause>,
fireball will dizzy you. Even fierce/fierce from a Ryu/Ken will sometimes
dizzy....
>
>
>Trading is the key to my personal Guile style. The basic premise is since
>it's impracticle to fight with fireballs, what you need to do is play Guile
>more like Chun Li. Guile is fast, he has a long range hit (crouching
>Foward), good aireal counter (close idle Foward and far standing Roundhouse),
>and an awesome fireball trader (far standing Roundhouse).
>
Guile is lucky in that respect to have a relatively good air defense. However,
I find that Ryu/Ken's jumping roundhouse has a tremendous "priority". All
too often it's a trade, or they hit cleanly. What about other characters,
such as Chun Li? If they jump from far away, I can counter with standing
fierce or roundhouse, but what am I supposed to do if they jump from close in?
Block? (If a master Chun Li out there has a better suggestion, I'd be happy
to hear it...)
>Basically what I do is I hover just outside of Ryu's kick range and just kind
>of dance around. If Ryu throws a fireball I trade with Roundhouse for
>approximately 2 times the damage. If Ryu jumps, I can do one of my aireal
>counters and if he Hurricane Kicks, he gets fist fucked. The problem with
>this style is that you can't afford to get faked (which can happen quite
>easily). One missed standing Roundhouse and you're leg is gonna get pounded.
>
Again, as you said, it's quite easy to get faked out. And two combos from
Ryu will leave me with a whole half a millimetre of energy....
Brian
Sung H. Yi
>Brian Chan
>cha...@sfu.ca
Fooey! Guile played my way is the best character there is. Ryu has only
a slight chance of beating him (if Ryu's going to play a LONG drawn out type
of game, he's definitely going to lose), Ken's chances are a little better.
Sagat is no match (are you sure Sagat has a throw?). Any other characters
are simply a joke. Some scrub the other day put in a plug about Dhalsim and
Balrog on here... sheesh! How horrendous!
Ken Schmidt
> Fooey! Guile played my way is the best character there is. Ryu has only
>a slight chance of beating him (if Ryu's going to play a LONG drawn out type
>of game, he's definitely going to lose), Ken's chances are a little better.
>Sagat is no match (are you sure Sagat has a throw?). Any other characters
>are simply a joke. Some scrub the other day put in a plug about Dhalsim and
>Balrog on here... sheesh! How horrendous!
Come on, now! How can you be so sure that Guile your way is the best
and then not be certain that Sagat has a throw??? (the answer BTW is
yes, unless you don't have CE of HF machine around).
Sorry, I guess that Sagat is my personal fav to play I get a little
edgy when people slam the guy.
---Ken
'Squire Boy'
kena...@cs.indiana.edu
Chad E. Reznicek
> > for fireballs and winning in damage but losing in the unbalanced
> > dizzy meter.
>
> If you get hit with a Fireball (or any Fierce/Roundhouse attack), you should
> immedietely thereafter avoid getting hit again, which includes not trading.
> Otherwise you're just asking to get dizzy.
sound the trumpet, sound the alarm!!! we have a breakthrough
new strategy! if you ever get hit in sf2 with a fireball, fierce, or
roundhouse attack, you should try to not get hit again. might i even
go so far as to suggest that after getting hit by a forward, strong,
jab, or short as well, you should also try to avoid getting hit again.
i forsee that this new strategy could greatly affect the
gameplay of sf2 forever. imagine it, you and your opponent begin your
normal game of sf2. your opponent expects you to just walk into him
and then begin to exchange hits, but you instead attempt to block him.
i love it!!!
maybe someone should write into egm or diehard and try to get
a free t-shirt or whatever promo theyre giving for tricks or codes.
> > Has any guile master out there had any success with crouching fierce into a
> > ryu ground launched hk? If so, what's the timing? Is it possible to time it
> > based on the whooshing sound effect made by the hk?
>
> Well, first of all, any decently timed crouching Fierce will always at least
> trade (I haven't seen otherwise). Secondly, if you time it right, it will
> always counter (no trade). What's the timing? Well, against a Roundhouse
> Hurricane Kick, hold Offensive Crouch so that when Ryu passes over you
> (technically) Guile will turn around. As soon as this occurs, hit Fierce and
> enjoy a clean hit. Other situations that are more subtle (Short Hurricane
> Kicks, etc.) and are kind of hard to describe when/how to hit but they come
> intuitively with practice.
in all seriousness though, john does have the best strategy
if you want to uppercut a spin crazy rooster. if your opponent goes
for a short HK, i would suggest waiting for him to land and then
throwing him _away_ without moving your joystick towards him,
therefore avioding the sonic boom (i hate that!!)
> If Ryu is hitting you with Short Kicks, all you need to do is learn to time
> your throws better.
ditto.
> John Nishinaga
> jnis...@netcom.com
my personal guile strategy goes by the creed that my guile
is better than whoever you may choose. i know it, my victims know
it, and soon you will to. i play aggressive, and dont give my
opponent enough time to react to my relentless onslaught of perfectly
timed combos and ticks which force your inadequately and illpracticed
character no time or space to breath. so furious is my fundamentaly
sound execution of finessely appealing moves that you will be in awe
of the entire 99 seconds... make that 17 seconds, and even relish
in the fact that you just lost 25 cents (or 50 cents depending on how
greedy the owner of the arcade we are in is) faster than your grand-
mother can cover 7 numbers in bingo on 3 cards. i hate to sound cocky
when im only trying to help you learn guile, but i sense the deep
need that you are feeling to understand all of the ins and outs of
guile. if i may impart you with one small amount of my vast wisdom
in this area of guiles nuances, let me guide you in this direction...
whenever you are feeling that your opponent is putting _you_ under
pressure, fall back on that one sturdy outpost of hope and direction
that all great guile players thank the big C for. resort only to
the knee jump. need i say more. i think not.
_
O \
O _/
--
Rez... _____ _____ ______ ______ _____ _____
Chad E. Reznicek / __/ / __/ /_ __/ /_ __/ / __/ / __/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /__ / / __/ __/ /_ __/ /_ / __/ / __/
r...@cwis.unomaha.edu /____/ /__/ /_____/ /_____/ /__/ /____/
Brian Chan
> Fooey! Guile played my way is the best character there is. Ryu has only
>a slight chance of beating him (if Ryu's going to play a LONG drawn out type
>of game, he's definitely going to lose), Ken's chances are a little better.
>Sagat is no match (are you sure Sagat has a throw?). Any other characters
>are simply a joke. Some scrub the other day put in a plug about Dhalsim and
>Balrog on here... sheesh! How horrendous!
Yes, Sagat DOES have a throw. And excuse me if this is a stupid question,
but would you care to explain exactly how "your way" is? (You'll forgive
me if I'm a little skeptical). As for Sagat-you Sonic boom, I jump and
roundhouse. Please tell me what you're gonna do besides block...
Brian
John Nishinaga
cha...@kits.sfu.ca (Brian Chan) writes:
> jnis...@netcom.com (John Nishinaga) writes:
> >Trading is the key to my personal Guile style. The basic premise is since
> >it's impracticle to fight with fireballs, what you need to do is play
> >Guile more like Chun Li. Guile is fast, he has a long range hit
> >(crouching Foward), good aireal counter (close idle Foward and far
> >standing Roundhouse), and an awesome fireball trader (far standing
> >Roundhouse).
>
> Guile is lucky in that respect to have a relatively good air defense.
> However, I find that Ryu/Ken's jumping roundhouse has a tremendous
> "priority". All too often it's a trade, or they hit cleanly.
With a far standing Roundhouse, depending on how Ryu and Guile timed their
kicks, I've seen the results where Ryu hits, Guile hits or (most often) it
just trades. (Anybody out there with some insight on this?) However, his
close idle Foward (das-booty, boner-kick, etc.) should counter anything Ryu
has to offer. If far away, you can position yourself just out of his kick
range and hit him with a crouching Foward.
> What about other characters, such as Chun Li? If they jump from far away, I
> can counter with standing fierce or roundhouse, but what am I supposed to
> do if they jump from close in? Block? (If a master Chun Li out there has a
> better suggestion, I'd be happy to hear it...)
Air throw.
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
James Macek
> Fooey! Guile played my way is the best character there is. Ryu has only
>a slight chance of beating him (if Ryu's going to play a LONG drawn out type
>of game, he's definitely going to lose), Ken's chances are a little better.
>Sagat is no match (are you sure Sagat has a throw?). Any other characters
You sad fool. It;s really too bad you think so highly of Guile. His
hey-day is over....Sagat is way too much for him. Same for Ryu/Ken.
If you were talking about Zangief as no match, you might get sympathy.
>are simply a joke. Some scrub the other day put in a plug about Dhalsim and
>Balrog on here... sheesh! How horrendous!
Again, you fool. Now I suppose you will post on how pathetic Vega is.
Guile is tougher than some for Vega and Dhalsim, but played well it's
usually a toss up--though I obviously lean towards Vega.
-Luddite
Lord Baal
>Comeback? I thought it was just a point. You have trouble spelling,
>typing, or reading. Probably the last....Letter Boy (Q, right?),
>you're almost as bad as Ball Boy. Another resounding yawn. Strange
>genetic experiments at UIUC? Big Ball Boy at 6'3" and Letter Boy the
>experiment in brain deprivation. Funny stuff going on in the corn
>fields...news at 11. What newsgroup is this? Alt.flame? Shall we
>take it there and stick to sf2 here? I'm tired of straining through
>Ball Boy's writing and Letter Boy's reading. 2 of the three r's are
>being ignored up there. I have one question about the "fairly regularly"
>fiasco. Wasn't the word fairly surrounded by quotations? This would
>change everything....
>-Luddite
I personally would also like to go back to sf2 discussions
however you have been making ridiculous claims that
deserves a flame or two...so its your own fault...
e.g. (reflexes, dhalsim, and vega the best characters etc....)
Lord Baal
> - persistent guile player
Guile is definetly at a disadvantage when it comes to
playing ken ryu or blanka or just about anybody in fact
i think a good throw ken or ryu will whip a good guile
7 or 8 times out of ten...(imho)
Sung H. Yi
Sung H. Yi
>You sad fool. It;s really too bad you think so highly of Guile. His
>hey-day is over....Sagat is way too much for him. Same for Ryu/Ken.
>If you were talking about Zangief as no match, you might get sympathy.
>>are simply a joke. Some scrub the other day put in a plug about Dhalsim and
>>Balrog on here... sheesh! How horrendous!
>Again, you fool. Now I suppose you will post on how pathetic Vega is.
>Guile is tougher than some for Vega and Dhalsim, but played well it's
>usually a toss up--though I obviously lean towards Vega.
>-Luddite
>--
>Jim, gt7...@prism.gatech.edu or
>jmm...@netcom.com (matters not)
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Everyman His Own Wife, | Do you still see me?
> or | Do you still hear me?
>A Honeymoon in the Hand." | Do you still need me?
>--Buck Mulligan, James Joyce's | -Miki Berenyi of lush
> _Ulysses_ | from "stray" on _Spooky_
Bring you and your sorry characters over here and I'll have you on your
way with more than enough street fighter to ponder on for years.. and I'll
do it in a half an hour (if that).
James Macek
> Bring you and your sorry characters over here and I'll have you on your
>way with more than enough street fighter to ponder on for years.. and I'll
>do it in a half an hour (if that).
I don't think you'd want to play my sorry characters, let alone my good ones.
Take your ego and beat on some little kids. Anyone who really thinks Guile
is such hot shit obviously has trouble understanding the dynamics of the game.
Too bad I have no reason to take I-75 up to Michigan.
Brian Chan
>sun...@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Sung H. Yi) writes:
>> Bring you and your sorry characters over here and I'll have you on your
>>way with more than enough street fighter to ponder on for years.. and I'll
>>do it in a half an hour (if that).
>I don't think you'd want to play my sorry characters, let alone my good ones.
>Take your ego and beat on some little kids. Anyone who really thinks Guile
>is such hot shit obviously has trouble understanding the dynamics of the game.
>Too bad I have no reason to take I-75 up to Michigan.
I thought we were over this "come over here and I'll beat the crap out of
you in SF2" bit. My main point was what someone (Seth?) said a few posts
back...Guile has a huge advantage over a lot of characters, but in HF
(we were talking about HF, right?) he's simply outmatched by Ryu/Ken/Sagat.
Which is not to say Guile can't win, it's just very hard.
Brian
Frank Kuan
>
>> 1) does a knockdown and a dizzy because you had been trading backhands
>> for fireballs and winning in damage but losing in the unbalanced
>> dizzy meter.
>
>If you get hit with a Fireball (or any Fierce/Roundhouse attack), you should
>immedietely thereafter avoid getting hit again, which includes not trading.
>Otherwise you're just asking to get dizzy.
This goes without saying. I'm obviously not going to try to retaliate
immediately AFTER getting hit. I'm talking about the cummulative
effects of having traded 3 or so fireballs for backfists in a span
of say, 15-20 clock ticks. By this time, I'm ahead in health, but
the next time we trade, I will be the one getting knocked dizzy, not
ryu. If after 3 or so trades I try to play real defensive to recover
on my dizzy meter. I block a few fb's, jump over a few, and try not
to get pushed into the corner for fb trap. Ok, so how many clock ticks
before it's "safe" to resume trading? Even after this "defense" period,
I still find Guile to be very dizzy prone.
>> 2) gambling on trading a crouching upppercut with the hurricane kick and
>> a) ryu knocks you down and suffers no damage for the trade
>> b) you both get hit but ryu wins the damage trade
>
>> Has any guile master out there had any success with crouching fierce into a
>> ryu ground launched hk? If so, what's the timing? Is it possible to time it
>> based on the whooshing sound effect made by the hk?
>
>Well, first of all, any decently timed crouching Fierce will always at least
>trade (I haven't seen otherwise). Secondly, if you time it right, it will
>always counter (no trade). What's the timing? Well, against a Roundhouse
>Hurricane Kick, hold Offensive Crouch so that when Ryu passes over you
>(technically) Guile will turn around. As soon as this occurs, hit Fierce and
>enjoy a clean hit. Other situations that are more subtle (Short Hurricane
>Kicks, etc.) and are kind of hard to describe when/how to hit but they come
>intuitively with practice.
I guess you just have better timing. I can get trades most of the
time, but the clean hits vs. ryu tend to elude me. And correct me
if I'm wrong, but a crouching fierce for an hk trade favors ryu in
damage points, and more importantly, it makes an easily dizziable
guile that much easy to stun.
>Trading is the key to my personal Guile style. The basic premise is since
>it's impracticle to fight with fireballs, what you need to do is play Guile
>more like Chun Li. Guile is fast, he has a long range hit (crouching
>Foward), good aireal counter (close idle Foward and far standing Roundhouse),
>and an awesome fireball trader (far standing Roundhouse).
>
>Basically what I do is I hover just outside of Ryu's kick range and just kind
>of dance around. If Ryu throws a fireball I trade with Roundhouse for
>approximately 2 times the damage. If Ryu jumps, I can do one of my aireal
My hf guile style is essentially the way you've described. I whittle them
down by making trades. I can't jump in on a master ryu, and sonic booms
are used sparingly. I tend to favor the backfist more than the
standing roundhouse, since it has more range. Master ryu's tend not to
throw fireballs if I'm in standing roundhouse range.
>counters and if he Hurricane Kicks, he gets fist fucked. The problem with
>this style is that you can't afford to get faked (which can happen quite
Can you describe your aerial counter attack in more detail?
>easily). One missed standing Roundhouse and you're leg is gonna get pounded.
>
>Anybody else play this or a similar style?
The problem I have when I try to dance in and out of ryu's sweep range is t
that they like to walk into the sweep range, do their sweep/fb combo so
that it pushes me well out of the ideal trading range. Ryu's also like to
jab dp probing middle crouching legs to keep you at bay.
A good ticking Ryu is even more deadly. They can do short(s) throw, or
short(s) jab dp when they think you are going to counterthrow. Not a very
fun gamble for guile.
>--
>John Nishinaga
>jnis...@netcom.com
- Frank
Frank Kuan
>>item (8). How often can you high block their hk and throw them as they
>>land? For me, it's usually about 50% on an average day, and 70% on a good
>>day and my timing is down pat. But I still get crouching shorted an
>>appreciable number of times when attempting this maneuver.
>
> Well, with these percentages, I would say your timing is
> *not* down pat, but there is another explanation. Once in a while,
> Ryu (or more often Ken's) HK will push you back in such a way as
> to finally push you out of throw range when you land. It is all
> dependent on the spacing of the first blocked strike, but even so
> it is rather rare, and still avoidable. If you learn to recognize
> that you will be pushed too far back to throw, duck under every
> other strike. This will allow the HK to get "more inside" on you,
> and assure that you will end up within range for an easy throw.
This is an interesting tactic. I'll have to give it a try. John
Nishinga asserts that any throw that guile gets in this situation
is a blown oppurtunity by a master ryu to re-hk or dp. I have the
feeling that guile should be able to get the throw off before ryu
can get off a buffered hk or dp, but I don't have enough evidence
to support it. What do other guile and ryu masters think?
> I usually do this regardless, as it lessens the block damage I have
> to take to get my throw. Just be careful not to let the HK "get
> behind you" such that you stand up into it and it connects from
> behind. This is not too tough to see and space accordingly.
> Also, a well timed crouching fierce will knock them out
> of it everytime. I will not attempt to describe the spacing here,
> as it is way too precise to be easily conveyed over the net. In
> any case, the throw always does more damage, and is easier to time.
> There is no way that you should be getting hit with crouching short
> kicks after an HK. If you can't throw him, then he pushed you out
> of range, but is himself also out of range for short kicks. The
> answer is very likely your timing itself if this is the case. If
> you are a giant chicken, the "extended" standing jab should knock
I assume the attack you are referring to is the in close move for the
middle standing punch button where he lunges out with his forearm?
> Handicapped my butt. I hate whiny Guile's, moaning for
> their glory days on Classic where no one could beat them. Truth
I hate it when people don't read what I wrote very carefully and
misconstrue it to mean something else. Chill out dude. All I'm saying
is that despite his tendency to get dizzy against the hf ryu, guile
is still a fun character to play. If you had read the whole paragraph
instead of jumping to conclusions, you'd realize that my usage
of "classic" was not a reference to the original sf2, but simply a
generic description of the situation I was describing.
>
> Seth Killian
>
- Frank
John Nishinaga
ku...@dms.agames.com (Frank Kuan) writes:
> >Well, first of all, any decently timed crouching Fierce will always at
> >least trade (I haven't seen otherwise). Secondly, if you time it right,
> >it will always counter (no trade). What's the timing? Well, against a
> >Roundhouse Hurricane Kick, hold Offensive Crouch so that when Ryu passes
> >over you (technically) Guile will turn around. As soon as this occurs,
> >hit Fierce and enjoy a clean hit. Other situations that are more subtle
> >(Short Hurricane Kicks, etc.) and are kind of hard to describe when/how to
> >hit but they come intuitively with practice.
>
> I guess you just have better timing. I can get trades most of the
> time, but the clean hits vs. ryu tend to elude me. And correct me
> if I'm wrong, but a crouching fierce for an hk trade favors ryu in
> damage points, and more importantly, it makes an easily dizziable
> guile that much easy to stun.
has been the impression I've gotten). The best _exact_ method of when to use
Fierce is the one I described above. When I used to play Guile I had a
certain "feel" for when to hit so that I could counter Ryu's Spin Kick about
90% of the time. Just try to learn when to use the Fierce rather than just
blindly hitting it out.
> I can't jump in on a master ryu...
That's probably the number one mistake you can do when playing against Ryu,
Ken or Sagat. If your opponent feels this way about you, he's going to throw
fireballs left and right, knowing you're not going to jump. Well, you're
going to feel like your being bombarded with fireballs and there's nothing
you can do about it (because of course, you can't jump).
And I really hate it when I almost know he's going to fireball but I don't
jump because I'm too psyched out and then of course the guy fireballs.
Really, the worse thing that can happen is getting hit by a Dragon Punch and
trust me, you can usually afford a couple of these in a round. Just do it.
> Can you describe your aerial counter attack in more detail?
distance. If your close enough, use close idle Foward, and if your far away
enough, use crouching Foward. Of course if your in the middle gray area,
just use your intuition as to what to do whether it be block, far standing
Roundhouse, Air Throw, crouch then throw, etc.
> A good ticking Ryu is even more deadly. They can do short(s) throw, or
> short(s) jab dp when they think you are going to counterthrow. Not a very
> fun gamble for guile.
something, Sonic Kick. If you don't, just block and be ready to
counter-throw in case they do. It's a hell of a lot better situation than
let's say Chun Li or Bison or Balrog where they only have one option
(counter-throw).
IMHO, a Ryu that doesn't tick is wasting valueable resources. :) Ryu and
Ken's Foward Flip + Foward, throw is just about the nastiest tick among same
range throwers. Just about everybody I've talked to feels the same way.
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
Seth James Killian
>ku...@dms.agames.com (Frank Kuan) writes:
>
>> I can't jump in on a master ryu...
>
>That's probably the number one mistake you can do when playing against Ryu,
>Ken or Sagat. If your opponent feels this way about you, he's going to throw
>fireballs left and right, knowing you're not going to jump. Well, you're
>going to feel like your being bombarded with fireballs and there's nothing
>you can do about it (because of course, you can't jump).
Too true. Not jumping in is a giant mistake. This is the
first thing I look for against Guile's. If they have a healthy fear
of being DP'd upon jumping in, I tend to really get silly with the
FB's. I find that the Guile's who are still able to beat me at all
have almost totally abandoned Classic Guile and will *randomly*
jump in on me, every so often. Keeps me honest, they say. Jump
in, just out of the blue, and maybe you'll get Dp'd. But maybe
you'll land that combo, and get hte dizzy to land another. In
general, this is not a great strategy vs. most characters, but
you are at a decided disadvantage against Ryu, so do what you must,
instead of losing with grace...
>
>> Can you describe your aerial counter attack in more detail?
>
>Well, there are two sure-fire ways of countering Ryu, depending on your
>distance. If your close enough, use close idle Foward, and if your far away
>enough, use crouching Foward. Of course if your in the middle gray area,
>just use your intuition as to what to do whether it be block, far standing
>Roundhouse, Air Throw, crouch then throw, etc.
I think sure fire is a touch overconfident. Against Ryu's
roundhouse alone, these and other counters become almost "sure fire",
but a good Ryu will definitely mix it up with an aerial fierce, which
will nail standing forward (I am assuming you are referring to the
"boner" kick, and not the one where he leaves the ground). The
crouching forward counter requires a LOT of space, and I don't see
it too often, mostly because I try not to jump in if I see they are
capable of adjusting to that distance...
>
>IMHO, a Ryu that doesn't tick is wasting valueable resources. :) Ryu and
>Ken's Foward Flip + Foward, throw is just about the nastiest tick among same
>range throwers. Just about everybody I've talked to feels the same way.
Really? I have heard that elsewhere, but have never been
particularly bothered by it. The spacing/timing is definitely
very "weird", but it is also extremely consistent, which for me,
at least, is very learnable. Vega ticks are still my least fave.
The strikes are all so fast from that range, I find myself guessing
more than I would like. I just need to play more Vega's, is all...
Seth Killian
>--
>John Nishinaga
>jnis...@netcom.com
Eu-Ming Lee
>>IMHO, a Ryu that doesn't tick is wasting valueable resources. :) Ryu and
>>Ken's Foward Flip + Foward, throw is just about the nastiest tick among same
>>range throwers. Just about everybody I've talked to feels the same way.
This is my favorite tick to counter. It has the easiest timing, and requires
no reflexes. This is if I'm playing a character with and equal or longer
throw range. In the case of Ryu vs. Guile, Guile has a tough time countering
this move if Ryu did everything correctly.
> Really? I have heard that elsewhere, but have never been
> particularly bothered by it. The spacing/timing is definitely
> very "weird", but it is also extremely consistent, which for me,
> at least, is very learnable. Vega ticks are still my least fave.
> The strikes are all so fast from that range, I find myself guessing
> more than I would like. I just need to play more Vega's, is all...
> Seth Killian
--
Frank Kuan
>Generally, Ryu will cause more damage in a trade but not always (at least that
>has been the impression I've gotten). The best _exact_ method of when to use
>Fierce is the one I described above. When I used to play Guile I had a
>certain "feel" for when to hit so that I could counter Ryu's Spin Kick about
>90% of the time. Just try to learn when to use the Fierce rather than just
>blindly hitting it out.
>
improvement, but nowhere near 90%. On the other hand, I tried
out Seth's technique of ducking and blocking alternate hk kicks and
going for the throw when they land, and my success ratio has
improved quite a bit. I'd have to agree with Seth that the reason
I was missing the throws before was because the high block was
sometimes pushing me a little bit out of throw range. I got my
friend to try to re-hk or dragon punch upon landing from an hk,
but the only times he succeeded were when I whiffed on my throw.
As Seth pointed out, ryu can't re-dragon punch without leaving
a window open for being thrown, so why should an hk have that
privilege? I've come to the conclusion that the throw is
the best option. Once I perfect the techinique, it will be like
throwing ryu after a missed dragon punch. A crouching uppercut
should be used only if you don't have time to high block.
side note: I've noticed that ground throws for human guile are 20% damage,
and air throws do 25%. Computer guile can do 25% or more for
ground throws, and normal attack from computer guile can do as much
as 20%!! (level 7 difficulty setting at least)
>> I can't jump in on a master ryu...
>
>That's probably the number one mistake you can do when playing against Ryu,
>Ken or Sagat. If your opponent feels this way about you, he's going to throw
>fireballs left and right, knowing you're not going to jump. Well, you're
>going to feel like your being bombarded with fireballs and there's nothing
>you can do about it (because of course, you can't jump).
>
Don't get me wrong. I play a very aggresive guile. I do a fair # of
jumps where I am within air roundhouse reach of ryu's head, and
he has to decide whether to gamble on a fierce dp to hit (what might
be) my leg sticking out at him
or get thrown for missing. Anything closer is a tough gamble
unless you have REALLY good anticipation and can jump before
the fireball is launched, or risk doing a high hit and getting
sacrifice dp'd or thrown.
>And I really hate it when I almost know he's going to fireball but I don't
>jump because I'm too psyched out and then of course the guy fireballs.
>Really, the worse thing that can happen is getting hit by a Dragon Punch and
>trust me, you can usually afford a couple of these in a round. Just do it.
Agreed.
>
>> Can you describe your aerial counter attack in more detail?
>
>Well, there are two sure-fire ways of countering Ryu, depending on your
>distance. If your close enough, use close idle Foward,
Are you sure about "surefire"? When I play blanka, I can use the
standing fierce "upperclaw" with remarkable success, or chun li
with a jumping straight up roundhouse kick is surefire, but
I never had a surefire regular move to counter with guile I'll have to
try out the close idle forward. Rarely use it because it looks
so stupid.
>and if your far away
>enough, use crouching Foward. Of course if your in the middle gray area,
>just use your intuition as to what to do whether it be block, far standing
>Roundhouse, Air Throw, crouch then throw, etc.
>
>> A good ticking Ryu is even more deadly. They can do short(s) throw, or
>> short(s) jab dp when they think you are going to counterthrow. Not a very
>> fun gamble for guile.
>
>Countering with Guile is very easy -- if you think they're going to try
>something, Sonic Kick. If you don't, just block and be ready to
>counter-throw in case they do. It's a hell of a lot better situation than
>let's say Chun Li or Bison or Balrog where they only have one option
>(counter-throw).
>
the razor kick is usually what gets me in trouble. They do short/short,
stand up, walk towards me, I razor kick right into the jab dp.
If I just block the jab dp, it puts me out of throw range.
In my opinion ryu can tick guile more easily than the other way
around. When I play (as) ryu against a guile, I find I can tick
and counter tick more easily.
>IMHO, a Ryu that doesn't tick is wasting valueable resources. :) Ryu and
>Ken's Foward Flip + Foward, throw is just about the nastiest tick among same
>range throwers. Just about everybody I've talked to feels the same way.
It is definitely nasty. Maybe my counter throwing just isn't up
there with the sf masters, but I sure have a lot of trouble with this
and with bison in general. Bison still seems to have great ticking
ability with the cheesepedo/throw, or what is the most infuriating
move is when they jump right behind you, you try to counter throw,
but an uppercut comes up instead (and misses! even though clearly
they are overlapping and there should be a collision!)
John Nishinaga
ku...@dms.agames.com (Frank Kuan) writes:
> As Seth pointed out, ryu can't re-dragon punch without leaving a
> window open for being thrown, so why should an hk have that
> privilege?
Kick. Now, have Dhalsim crouch Roundhouse so that when Ryu lands he'll be
inside his slide. Notice that Ryu can block this. DP on the other hand, Ryu
is stunned temporarily as he's comming down. Notice how not only can you
throw him in this condition, but you can hit and even combo him. That's the
difference.
Ever remember the old saying, "if you blocked, you could have DP'd?" Well, it
still applies to the Hurricane Kick...
>> Can you describe your aerial counter attack in more detail?
>
>Well, there are two sure-fire ways of countering Ryu, depending on your
>distance. If your close enough, use close idle Foward,
Are you sure about "surefire"?
so I guess it isn't "surefire." :)
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com
Seth James Killian
>ku...@dms.agames.com (Frank Kuan) writes:
>
>Play Ryu vs. Dhalsim. Have Dhalsim stand way back and have Ryu Hurricane
>Kick. Now, have Dhalsim crouch Roundhouse so that when Ryu lands he'll be
>inside his slide. Notice that Ryu can block this. DP on the other hand, Ryu
>is stunned temporarily as he's comming down. Notice how not only can you
>throw him in this condition, but you can hit and even combo him. That's the
>difference.
I think this example is a little misleading for several
technical reasons, involving the bizzare aspects of Dhalsim's slide
more than the HK itself. Frank gave an understandably abbreviated
part of some email I sent him, but probably should just have posted
in the first place. I will hereby open up a small (hopefully) can
of worms with the assertion that you can actually throw a character
*before* they touch the ground. This is evidenced in many aspects
of the game, but I will try to just leave it at that, due to the
hour and the possibly lengthy explanation necessary to do the
theory justice (A cop-out? Yes.) First, the example is not sound
because Dhalsim's slide is *weird* which is to say that attacks
(aerial ones) that do not actually angle themselves *below* a flat
180 degree horizon cannot hit Dhalsim's slide. One good example
is *any* of Ken/Ryu's aerial attacks. Punches and kicks alike
fail to touch Dhalsim's sliding body no matter how late you try
to time it. Blanka's forward kick can, because it angles down,
which is not always clear from the animation alone. Try the
same trick with Vega's slide. It will not work. Vega will hit
Ryu. Vega's slide can also be hit by "level" attacks, including
all of Ken/Ryu's aerial attacks. Ryu falling from the HK is only
"level" and so the two simply miss one another; a rather strange
example which I don't think happens anywhere else (If you can think
of another example, post it, and I'll try that too). Also, think
about the obvious consideration that went into the game. Now think
about what would happen if you really *could* DP after every HK.
Chun Li, among others would be almost totally crushed by HK's.
All Ryu would have to do is gain a small lead and then HK incessantly.
If Chun Li tries anything afterwards, he DP's. If not, he does it
again. This is silly...
>
>Ever remember the old saying, "if you blocked, you could have DP'd?" Well, it
>still applies to the Hurricane Kick...
>
> Well, the saying still holds, but not with the HK. Excepting
the case of your example (and Dhalsim can still throw out of it), you
*can't* block. You are just floating meat, until you land. Of course,
the opposition doesn't have to wait that long to throw you, (IMHO,
of course :)
Seth Killian
John Nishinaga
>
> >Play Ryu vs. Dhalsim. Have Dhalsim stand way back and have Ryu Hurricane
> >Kick. Now, have Dhalsim crouch Roundhouse so that when Ryu lands he'll be
> >inside his slide. Notice that Ryu can block this. DP on the other hand,
> >Ryu is stunned temporarily as he's comming down. Notice how not only can
> >you throw him in this condition, but you can hit and even combo him.
> >That's the difference.
>
> I think this example is a little misleading for several
> technical reasons, involving the bizzare aspects of Dhalsim's slide
> more than the HK itself.
that continously hits so it gives a lot of room for error. Any attack is
fine so as you are connecting with Ryu as he lands.
> First, the example is not sound because Dhalsim's slide is *weird*
> which is to say that attacks (aerial ones) that do not actually
> angle themselves *below* a flat 180 degree horizon cannot hit
> Dhalsim's slide. One good example is *any* of Ken/Ryu's aerial
> attacks. Punches and kicks alike fail to touch Dhalsim's sliding
> body no matter how late you try to time it. Blanka's forward kick
> can, because it angles down, which is not always clear from the
> animation alone.
> Try the same trick with Vega's slide. It will not work. Vega will
> hit Ryu.
he jumps at him or that Vega will hit Ryu at the end of a Hurricane Kick.
The former case is a given but second is absolutely wrong.
> Vega's slide can also be hit by "level" attacks, including all of
> Ken/Ryu's aerial attacks. Ryu falling from the HK is only "level"
> and so the two simply miss one another; a rather strange example
> which I don't think happens anywhere else (If you can think of
> another example, post it, and I'll try that too).
which is obviously false. Ryu is simply unvulnerable until he reaches the
ground, in which he can block.
> Also, think about the obvious consideration that went into the game.
> Now think about what would happen if you really *could* DP after
> every HK. Chun Li, among others would be almost totally crushed by
> HK's. All Ryu would have to do is gain a small lead and then HK
> incessantly. If Chun Li tries anything afterwards, he DP's. If
> not, he does it again. This is silly...
(at close and even behind). Why do you think Ryu vs. Chun Li is such a
bitch?
> >Ever remember the old saying, "if you blocked, you could have DP'd?" Well,
> >it still applies to the Hurricane Kick...
>
> Well, the saying still holds, but not with the HK.
> Excepting the case of your example (and Dhalsim can still throw out
> of it), you *can't* block. You are just floating meat, until you
> land. Of course, the opposition doesn't have to wait that long to
> throw you, (IMHO, of course :)
Hurricane Kick.
--
John Nishinaga
jnis...@netcom.com