What's wrong with SF3?
nefdar
kind of a puzzle to me why that game is so unpopular. It's animated
beautifully, has more interesting characters, and is really a pretty
solid game. I wish that the supers didn't hurt quite so bad but other
than that it's pretty nice. SF3 forces unpredictable play, and keeps
people from using old patterns over and over, I'm assuming that's why
people *don't* like it, even though I consider that a good thing. Ask
your average person who likes SF3 what they like about it and ask your
average person who hates it what they don't like about it and you'll get
the same answer, parrying, which I consider to be the best thing to ever
happen to SF myself because it forces unpredictable play. I'm in
suspense throughout a SF match, no matter what game I'm playing, I don't
see how anyone can ever become *bored* with an SF game as long as there
is good competition around. But I personally know of people who still
play A2 and HF but cannot stand SFIII. Is it really that much of a
hassle to incorporate the parry into your game? Just wanted some real
opinions about what's so wrong with it other than "that game is boring"
or "that game sucks".
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
In the U.S., it's really for Hardcore SFers.. When I was in japan, it was
really really really popular, like the VS. games in the US.
> SF3 forces unpredictable play,
maybe this is it? the casual US gamer doesn't like this? heheh
> parrying,
It's like V-ism in SFA3, and CC in SFA2.
I think only the real hardcore players know how to use it well, while everyone
else think it sucks.
to me, I love the game.
It's just the old school street fighter, but mixed with a few more elements
that make it amazing.
I was a little sick of the flashy Vs. series, and the anime-ish Alpha series.
But SF3 series is still one of my favorites next to the SUPER series.
Peter "Mouko" Nguyen
Member of the "Xero Combo Crew"; the wannabe Skill Smiths of America!
Admirer of Bug!
"Repeat after me, I shall never take on a God again" Rugal B.
http://members.aol.com/xerocrew/
jmd
> counters in; that's an Alpha exclusive. ;-) There's nothing wrong with
> air blocking....all their other fighters after Super Turbo had it...yes,
air blocking would suck in 3, you can parry in the air, thats enough...
with air blocking anyone can just jump in and do chains all day, 0
risk...parry is a risk, theres timing...if you hit it you get your chain,
if you miss you get anti-air'd...besides you cant jump 500 ft in the air in
3, like the vs...all games with realistic jumping (mostly 3d fighters) dont
have air blocking. its not that realistic of a manouvre
> and over again in SF3. Sorry, but that's not true. I have actually
> seen players, that have virtually mastered parrying, do nothing but sit
> there and parry, and when you try to jump in and attack them, they
you were too predictable apperantly...you can master parry all you want but
humans have a reaction time...if they dont see it coming ahead of time they
cant parry it
> whatsoever. All they did was parry, and use one, maybe 2 attacks on you
> and actually win. Parrying really doesn't take skill IMO, it just takes
hey, if thats all it takes, go for it...i perfect people in tek3 with 1
move, i could be more "skillfull", but why bother (hi eddy players that
dont know how to get up)
> Another arguable thing in SF3 is the cancelling of supers, i.e. SFEX
> cancels. I completely, without a doubt, detest this addition. For one,
> the supers are already too damn strong *cough* Shin Shoryuken *cough*.
i've been told my arcade has the damage set on low, supers do zip for
damage here, so i can't comment much on this point. (akumas d,d,d,PP takes
off about 10% tops, i heard it normally does 40% or something?) supers do
about 2x their block damage here, kind of sucks
> It makes no sense to jump in with a hit, do a low forward, do a
> fireball, and in the midst of the "Hadou---" you start a super and
uhm, dont get hit with the jump in when they have a super ready?
> Darkstalkers (but this is minor). ;-) Again, SF3 isn't really that
> bad, in a nutshell, the complaint comes from people being used to the
> Alphas and not wanting to go back to gameplay of yesteryear, but would
> rather see enhancements. It's not boring either...surprising things
as you mentioned earlier, capcom took out quite a few alpha/vs features for
sf3...of course they did...you cant continuously pile up the special
features from series to series...parrys, EX moves, chosable supers, thats
plenty, work with those...
--
jmd <reply via usenet>
kayin/ka khiong kwok
:')
Cheers,
Ka.
--
*** Just a thought... ***
With all the space junk orbiting the planet,
ever get the feeling that we're been seen as
a bunch of inter-galactic litter bugs? :')
EC
wrote:
(Snipped Animation,air blocking, parrying, super strength disertation)
>After playing all 3 SF3's, 3rd Strike is the most balanced of them:
>Gill isn't as cheap, you can practice parrying the bonus round (although
>that was in 2nd Impact), Sean isn't a pushover anymore, the twins are
>FINALLY different, parrying has been simplified a lil' more, Akuma has
>lost some of his priority...the list goes on.
>
Have you played 3rd strike? Have you played 2nd impact?
Do you really think sean got better? Do you really thik Gill's new
super is less "cheap" than his previous incantations? The twins are
first showing signs of difference in 3rd strike?
Really?
Erik
Derek Daniels
Topic: What's wrong with SF3?
Message: 1 of 9
Sent: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:25:24 -0500
>Just curious why so many people consider SF3 boring.
Cause it is boring? :)
>It's always been kind of a puzzle to me why that game is
>so unpopular. It's animated beautifully, has more
>interesting characters, and is really a pretty solid game.
Interesting Characters?? Are you serious? I think SF3 has
the worst character designs ever. They are all extremely
one dimensional in what they have to attack with. Yun/Yang
are nothing but Robot (strong, fierce, palm) into super.
Sure, they may have other things than this, but this is by
far their most effective strategy. All across the country,
Yun/Yang are played the same: Dive Kick into chain into
super. Sometimes they change it up by doing Rekka Ken with
Yang - but that is just when they don't have super. This
is by far the most extreme of examples with bad character
designs within SF3, but if you look at the rest of the
cast, it's not much better. Ibuki's all over are played
the same - High Jab, Low Short crap into overhead then into
super. Oro's are played the same all over, poke until you
have meter then Tengu super. Etc.
2nd Impact fixed some of the problems with SF3, but it
created other problems as well.
>I wish that the supers didn't hurt quite so bad but other
>than that it's pretty nice. SF3 forces unpredictable play,
>and keeps people from using old patterns over and over,
>I'm assuming that's why people *don't* like it, even
>though I consider that a good thing.
The supers aren't part of the problem, but there is a
larger issue that exists that make the supers a real
problem. That being the ability to chain/link into
super. There is another problem with the supers, and that
is the fact that you only get one at a time. On paper this
sounded good and I was excited about SF3 until I actually
got to play it. The reason why I think this is a problem
is because in the end, everyone just picks the best super
no matter what, it limits the character even more. There
is never a moment where you are thinking, "Maybe he will do
this or that", cause there is never that option. Alex is
always going to go for Hyperbomb if he has super.
Unpredictable play? Haha. I really had to laugh out loud
at this one. While it does keep people from using old
patterns, I would much rather take those than the what
passes off as the new ones. Since there is no positioning
game left in SF3 since fireballs serve no purpose (I really
think SF3 would be a lot better if you couldn't parry
fireballs) you are left with characters that serve no real
purpose until they get up close. So you have 2 characters
that are fighting each other upclose that want to do what?
Chain into super would be the correct answer. So to try to
'mix' this up, they add in overheads, UOH (Universal
Overheads) and a few other gimmicks. Which leads to Random
Gameplay, not unpredictable.
>Ask your average person who likes SF3 what they like about
>it and ask your average person who hates it what they
>don't like about it and you'll get the same answer,
>parrying, which I consider to be the best thing to ever
>happen to SF myself because it forces unpredictable play.
HAHA. Sorry, I had to laugh really loud at this one. At
high levels, nothing could be further from the truth then
this statement. We have already established that the
characters are extremely one dimensional and that there is
a best thing for them to do no matter what the scenario is
- chain into super with almost everyone. So, say you are
fighting Urien or someone like that, at sweep range you
know there are only so many options that he has. So just
keep tapping toward and you will parry one of his attacks,
be it his should rush, a standing kick or anything else
that he attempts to hit you with, then boom, chain into
super. Against Alex, you can do pretty much the same thing
as well. The characters are just too limited in what they
can attack with and once you become accustomed to how each
character plays, simply insert a parry motion where
applicable.
The parry motion is simply too simple. I know countless
people that do nothing but toward+fierce all day long with
characters like Sean (cough whiteness cough). If they
stick anything out, you parry it, if they don't you are
safe. There are countless other situations where you can
insert a parry motion since it is so simple. In SF3 (I
don't know about 2i nor 3rd strike), if you block Ibuki's
Hurricane kick move at the right distance, you can parry
the 2nd or 3rd kick. If you block Alex's Standing Forward
into Jab Slash, you can parry the slash. This is more of a
problem with block stun than anything else, but since it is
there, you can combine this with the simple parry motion to
do your precious chain into super.
>I'm in suspense throughout a SF match, no matter what game
>I'm playing, I don't see how anyone can ever become
>*bored* with an SF game as long as there is good
>competition around. But I personally know of people who
>still play A2 and HF but cannot stand SFIII. Is it really
>that much of a hassle to incorporate the parry into your
>game? Just wanted some real opinions about what's so wrong
>with it other than "that game is boring" or "that game
>sucks".
I never have fun playing SF3. SF3 was nothing but Yun/Yang
doing robot into super and Ibuki doing anything which
results in her infinite. 2nd Impact was nothing but Ibuki
doing overhead swill into super, Sean doing standing RH
into super, etc. So far Strike 3 is nothing but Chun Li
doing standing fierce and low forward into super over and
over, Oro doing Tengu super, and everyone else taunting
everywhere.
As for as your cute little remark of, "Is it really that
much of a hassle to incorporate the parry into your game?"
I really hope you were just trying to get a response and
don't really believe this. It has nothing to do with not
being able to parry, it's when you can parry that sf3
becomes the horrible game that it is. That, combined with
the fact that all you really need to be able to do is parry
ONE thing, just one thing, not a multitude of things so
that you can do chain into super since they do so much
damage. Because of this, the game is just too random.
It's like a versus game in disguise.
I really don't mind being able to parry multi hitting moves
- including supers. It is a skill that has to be learned,
and that is always a good thing. It can be a little
overdone though. I was forced to play this game against my
friend Tin and he jumped in while I was playing Akuma and I
did fireball cancelled into fireball super which he parried
all of this in the air, so then I did a hurricane kick,
which he parried, then I did a dp into super again which he
parried. Oh well.
I would much rather play A2 (you read that right Bob
Painter) and HF than SF3 any day of the week. Simply cause
something is old doesn't mean it's bad. Nor does just
because something is new doesn't mean it's good.
I hope this gives you some insight as to why I hate this
game.
Derek
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James Margaris
>Derek Daniels <xemoxN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:04157000...@usw-ex0108-057.remarq.com...
Derek's post was right on the money.
[clip]
>> Unpredictable play? Haha. I really had to laugh out loud
>> at this one. While it does keep people from using old
>> patterns, I would much rather take those than the what
>> passes off as the new ones. Since there is no positioning
>> game left in SF3 since fireballs serve no purpose (I really
>> think SF3 would be a lot better if you couldn't parry
>> fireballs) you are left with characters that serve no real
>> purpose until they get up close. So you have 2 characters
>> that are fighting each other upclose that want to do what?
>> Chain into super would be the correct answer. So to try to
>> 'mix' this up, they add in overheads, UOH (Universal
>> Overheads) and a few other gimmicks. Which leads to Random
>> Gameplay, not unpredictable.
>
>U just stuck your foot up your own ass here. Random IS unpredictable. And
>if you couldn't parry fireballs, the Denjin Hadouken would kick ass.
2 great points Jinston! We wouldn't want them to have to alter *one* entire
move (the Denjin) if they changed parrying, that would be WAAAY too much to
ask. Forget the fact that parrying helps ruin the game, it would be even worse
if we had the nerve to expect Capcom to come up with *one* new super.
No, random is not quite unpredictable, depending on what he meant. For
example, say both characters are constantly going for chain combos. Since they
both have the same strategy what will actually result each time is random, but
the overall play is very predictable overall. You see the same pattern of
jab short overhead chain jab short jab chain overhead...each step is random
but overall very predictable and boring. I may not know how *exactly* they are
going to get close and play guessing games but I know that they will.
[clip]
>
>Characters being limited in what way they attack IS the SF game! It's what
>makes the characters different and better in different situations, etc.
>Becoming accustomed to how each character plays helps u in ANY SF game,
>period.
There is no problem with limited characters as long as they aren't TOO
limited, which they are IMO. Everyone has a one best strategy pretty much.
Furthermore, a lot of the characters are limited in the same way. For example,
no character has a good long range game. This limitation makes them play more
like each other. If SOME had no long range game and SOME had no close game
those limitations might be interesting, but as it is all it does is reduce
everyone to the same basic gameplay.
[clip]
>U complain about the 1 dimensionalism of the game, then call it random and
>say random is BAD?!?! What are u smoking? You're like sticking a shot gun
>up your ass and pulling the trigger. Random is good! It kills
>predicatability. Predictability is BORING!
As I pointed out before, the actual overall gameplay is very predictable.
Look, a chain->special->super, an overhead into super, how creative. Randomly
mixed up pokes are unpredictable on a micro level but on a macro level the
gameplay is utterly same looking and boring for almost every character.
James M
Tenchi
go along... ;-)
Yes, I have played both, and what I was saying is that: 1) Sean didn't
change much at all from SF3 to 2nd Impact. The only "tweak" they did
was make his Tornado Kick less dizzy friendly. 2) The twins showed 1st
signs of differences in 2nd Impact, true, but still, people who played
with them made the transition from one to the other TOO easily. In 3rd
Strike, it's not like that. You can't just pick Yun one match and do
well with him, and then pick Yang the next and expect to win with the
same tactic in 3rd Strike. In 2nd Impact?...yep. 3) Gill's new super
is cheap in only tick damage really. You can see it coming a mile away
because, for one, it's slow, and two, all who take the time to fight
Gill, face him the same way...very patiently...not to mention, the
arcade that had 2nd Impact either had the difficulty on easy, or Gill
was just a pushover. They've toughened him back up in 3rd Strike, but
not as "I wanna ram my fist through the screen and bust it wide open"
annoying as he was in the first SF3. ^_^
Tenchi
siezure at the controller you'll win, Eddy Gordo...that's a whole
'nother thing. *LOL*
You do have a point. Recalling the matches where I've seen people win
by just parrying and countering you with a Fierce or Roundhouse, their
opponents were kinda repetitious in their "skill." When I fell victim
to that kinda gameplay, I didn't think I was predictable....I don't just
do the same crap over and over again...but, if you have an excellent,
and patient, parry player, they'll flatten you every time...just about.
As for the damage, maybe the arcade attendants are just jackasses in
having their damage up too high....but, I've only seen 4 arcades have
any of the SF3's, and supers were much too death friendly.
When it comes to enhancements, I still believe they should have just
taken things they've given us in recent years and expand on it. But,
I'm forgetting the "pick up where SF2 left off" thing. They, basically,
took what was left from SSF2T and went a tad further, except SF3's a
lil' slower... As I said, the gripe comes from us enjoying the Alphas,
Darkstalkers', etc. and not wanting to do a 180 with gameplay. After
all, weren't the Alphas nothing more but vast enhancements from SF2?
jmd wrote:
>
> On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:58:13 -0400, Tenchi <NSt...@hotmail.com> wrote:
sol t kim
>just noticed u figured out the title of 3rd Strike! Very good!
oh, Jinston, shut up. Did it feel good to have figured out the title of
2nd impact:Giant Attack yourself?
>say random is BAD?!?! What are u smoking? You're like sticking a shot gun
>up your ass and pulling the trigger.
your language usage is astonishing. why don't you stop using it.
Random is good! It kills
>predicatability. Predictability is BORING!
><Snip>
SF3 IS predectable. it's the most predictable game ever made. you pick
Yun/Yang? i know EXACTLy what you are going to do.kunglao/flipgrab into
robocombo into super, with maybe cr.short->forward->yapyap mixed in. you
pick Ibuki? jabjab overhead turnkick into hashin-sho into ground chain.
Akuma? 2 million dive kicks followed by DP followed by hellicopter super.
i could tell you everything you are going to do. you pick anybody? i know
you will try to parry. sure, it doesn't mean i am going to win every time
but this is the truth: there is only one way to play each character in
this game. whoever picks better character and follows the guideline better
wins, assuming you have equal parrying skill.
i have never seen anybody play any character creatively in SF3 (and
largely in A3). maybe that's why the game is boring. everybody does the
same things with same characters over and over. yuck.
>--
>Jinston
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>
--
Jinston
news:FH5wE...@midway.uchicago.edu...
> In article <rsdo5k...@corp.supernews.com>,
> Jinston <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote:
> >it a huge long motion would defeat it's WHOLE ENTIRE purpose! Oh! And I
> >just noticed u figured out the title of 3rd Strike! Very good!
>
> oh, Jinston, shut up. Did it feel good to have figured out the title of
> 2nd impact:Giant Attack yourself?
Hey dick! Read the fuckin' thread. The original post seemed to refer to
Giant Impact as the 1st one. I just assumed that was it. I don't fucking
remember the secondary titles. Hell! I don't even remember 3rd strike's
secondary title!
>
> >say random is BAD?!?! What are u smoking? You're like sticking a shot
gun
> >up your ass and pulling the trigger.
>
> your language usage is astonishing. why don't you stop using it.
Do you even know what astonishing means?
>
> Random is good! It kills
> >predicatability. Predictability is BORING!
> ><Snip>
>
> SF3 IS predectable. it's the most predictable game ever made. you pick
> Yun/Yang? i know EXACTLy what you are going to do.kunglao/flipgrab into
> robocombo into super, with maybe cr.short->forward->yapyap mixed in. you
> pick Ibuki? jabjab overhead turnkick into hashin-sho into ground chain.
> Akuma? 2 million dive kicks followed by DP followed by hellicopter super.
> i could tell you everything you are going to do. you pick anybody? i know
> you will try to parry. sure, it doesn't mean i am going to win every time
> but this is the truth: there is only one way to play each character in
> this game. whoever picks better character and follows the guideline better
> wins, assuming you have equal parrying skill.
I never said it wasn't shit head.
>
> i have never seen anybody play any character creatively in SF3 (and
> largely in A3). maybe that's why the game is boring. everybody does the
> same things with same characters over and over. yuck.
No argument there.
jmd
> You do have a point. Recalling the matches where I've seen people win
> by just parrying and countering you with a Fierce or Roundhouse, their
> opponents were kinda repetitious in their "skill." When I fell victim
thats what parries were designed to prevent...if sf2, you could sit all day
with fb, fb, fb, fb, dp...repeat...now repeating gets a smack to the face
via parry, as it should...and unlike counters in A2, you have to see it
coming, not counter 10 mins after it hits
> to that kinda gameplay, I didn't think I was predictable....I don't just
> do the same crap over and over again...but, if you have an excellent,
bet you were a shoto. shoto's in sf3:3s aren't that diff from shotos in
sf2:ww...if you have a character unchanged for 10 years, any move he has is
gonna be predictable. (wow, you did a dp when i jumped in, didnt see that
coming (parry, \/ combo->super->juggle->chuckle)
> and patient, parry player, they'll flatten you every time...just about.
only parries i fear are CPU parries, they pull those out of thier ass
sometimes...at least its better then mk ai where your move is dodged or
countered before it even starts.
> As for the damage, maybe the arcade attendants are just jackasses in
> having their damage up too high....but, I've only seen 4 arcades have
> any of the SF3's, and supers were much too death friendly.
my arcade just switched the damage back to normal cause i kept waiting for
time victories with Q, but now its best of 5, much better...man 50c for
best of 3 on normal damage would suck, i feel for you guys...
> When it comes to enhancements, I still believe they should have just
> taken things they've given us in recent years and expand on it. But,
i still maintain there are plenty of extras in sf3
> I'm forgetting the "pick up where SF2 left off" thing. They, basically,
> took what was left from SSF2T and went a tad further, except SF3's a
> lil' slower... As I said, the gripe comes from us enjoying the Alphas,
i love sf3 speed
> Darkstalkers', etc. and not wanting to do a 180 with gameplay. After
> all, weren't the Alphas nothing more but vast enhancements from SF2?
seperate series...just like the vs....i certainly don't want that 100 ft
jump bullshit in a /REAL/ capcom fighter!
Tenchi
of the SF3's, but, remember the old "SSF2's too slow" argument that came
up after they relesed SF2:Turbo HF? That's why they decided to speed up
SSF2T... It still puzzles me a little why they decided to slow things
down instead of giving us the choice of speeds, or turbo option, for the
SF3's. But, I do agree the speed is about (eh) perfect in SF3...for
what they were going for.
My main complaint with parries are the fact that they are too easy. I
still argue that if you can parry 90%..hell, 80% of the attacks thrown
at you, even if you have NO skill, you can win easily. They didn't have
to put [alpha] counters in, I'm glad they didn't, but I would rather the
parries require a motion like counters did....
*LOL* You are right, Capcom doesn't need to bastardize SF by turning it
into a crossover with it's single fireball motion, all 3 punches/kicks,
jumping 100 ft. in the air, chain till you just can't chain no more
game. A friend of mine "affectionately" calls the VS games, twitch
games. I just call 'em crossovers...that's what they basically are. I
just play them as filler games until the next great/decent SF comes
out. SF4 anyone? *LOL*
nefdar
> gotten used to and fallen in love with the Alpha series, with air
> blocking, alpha counters, flashy supers, etc., that they go back to
> "old-school" play mechanics of the original SF2.
Thank god.
>
>
> As for parrying, I can do it often, but not as often as I would like
> to. I do like parrying, BUT, I do NOT agree with parrying an entire
> Shoryureppa. You guys mentioned that you can't use old patterns over
> and over again in SF3. Sorry, but that's not true. I have actually
> seen players, that have virtually mastered parrying, do nothing but sit
> there and parry, and when you try to jump in and attack them, they
> either parry your hit, or hit Fierce or Roundhouse, to knock you out of
> the air.
If this is happening to you then you are playing right into this guy's hands.
There's no way that someone's parrying everything you're doing unless they saw it
coming. Ever try jumping in with no attack and throwing the guy who parries all the
air hits? Or maybe skipping the jump attack, and as he taps forward going into the
low attack->combo? I love playing expert parryers, they are usually the easiest
ones to beat, they try to parry everything and walk into attacks because I never do
the same thing to them twice. No excuse for losing to this type. Now if they mix
in this strategy with a little bit of mind games of their own and psyche you out,
that is tricky, but that is also *skill*. Get just as good as they are at it and
you beat them too. What about the guy that jumps in with a parry all the time? Hit
them out of the air early/late, throw them as they land, start a low hit->combo on
them as they land from their attempted parry. As for parrying entire supers, hell
if you can parry a whole shoryureppa then you are the man, go ahead and do it. I
shouldn't have thrown a super when you weren't completely vulnerable anyway.
> Supers are still too strong, i.e. Shin Shoryuken, Gigas Breaker...MY GOD
> the Gigas Breaker,
This is my biggest complaint about the game, but not a big enough deal to worry
about. There's really no excuse for getting caught with a Gigas Breaker anyway,
have to agree with you on the SS. Especially on the machine in Atlanta where the
damage is jacked up. You can kill Akuma with one Shin-Shoryuken into a HCF+kick
juggle.
> Again, SF3 isn't really that
> bad, in a nutshell, the complaint comes from people being used to the
> Alphas and not wanting to go back to gameplay of yesteryear, but would
> rather see enhancements.
I might agree if I ever thought that anything good ever came out of an Alpha game,
but I don't. Airblocking, AC's, VC's, GC's, I detest them all. GC is the only one
that's close and in order for that to work several tweaks need to be added to make
it not quite so easy to pull out. If someone's sitting in the corner blocking and
gets GC'ed, they deserve that, but just because I blocked 6 jabs where I had the
choice of "block this or eat a jab-combo then get up and try again", there's no
excuse for that.
I really liked A3 until the Rolento and Dhalsim masters started showing up, now that
game really pisses me off. As for SF3, everybody gives me this "people parry
everything" crap but if you're getting parried all the time you're playing like a
robot, I can't think of any other way to put it. That's an easy trap to fall into,
esp after getting used to Alpha games where playing like a robot is the way to go,
but you have to learn to be tricky to win in SF3. Which is why people don't like
it, it makes them think and gives them a headache. At least imho :).
nefdar
----------
nefdar
> still argue that if you can parry 90%..hell, 80% of the attacks thrown
> at you, even if you have NO skill, you can win easily. They didn't have
> to put [alpha] counters in, I'm glad they didn't, but I would rather the
> parries require a motion like counters did....
If somebody parries 80 percent of what you do, either they have skill or you
don't. Since you seem to know what you're talking about, I choose to believe the
former. Unless you're jumping in and chaining all day or throwing out the same
poke at the same time all the time you will not get parried much in my
experience. If parries required a motion they would be impossible to do in a
real fight thusly ruining the concept.
nefdar
--------
tortoise
nefdar <nef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Supers are still too strong, i.e. Shin Shoryuken, Gigas
Breaker...MY GOD
> > the Gigas Breaker,
>
> This is my biggest complaint about the game, but not a big enough
deal to worry
> about. There's really no excuse for getting caught with a Gigas
Breaker anyway,
I disagree with both of you here. Hugo is by far the worst character
in the game and doesn't stand much of a chance against anyone who is
good. the gigas breaker is one of the few things that he has that can
keep him in the game. on my machine it does about 75% against ken and
50% against yun. but christ, the man doesn't have much else. without
the gigas hugo would be nothing but a huge punching bag.
as for no excuse for getting caught by a gigas breaker, what are you
talking about? if you can get caught by an SPD you can get caught by
the gigas. unless you are gonna run away the entire round and stay out
of throw range the entire time (and up close is where 99% of all SF3
players want to be) the gigas can get you quite easily.
Matt
--
--
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
nefdar
> talking about? if you can get caught by an SPD you can get caught by
> the gigas. unless you are gonna run away the entire round and stay out
> of throw range the entire time (and up close is where 99% of all SF3
> players want to be) the gigas can get you quite easily.
Like all the other slam supers the gigas can be jumped out of unless he
catches you out of a move or during a recovery, he can't just scoop you
up. I treat Hugo like Z, I never ever stand directly in front of him. His
throw range bites compared to Z so as long as you stay just out of range
and don't do something stupid like jump at him or whiff a super or DP you
are completely un-gigas-able. I've only been hit by it once and ever since
no Hugo player has ever landed one, as long as you don't get in his face
like an idiot he'll never get you. You don't need supers or high risk
moves to beat him, he's got nothing. It's not hard to "run away and stay
out of throw range the entire time" against him, he has no effective moves
to chase you down. I fear his hammer punch a lot more than the gigas
breaker, and that's on the jacked up damage machine here where a gigas
instantly kills you(no matter who you are or how much life you have, I
think it would do enough damage to kill Akuma twice over).
nefdar
--------
Tenchi
own opinionated reasons for "what's wrong with SF3." Is there anything
Capcom could have done to make it [more] liked instead of criticized?
If you think about it, more people slam SF3 than praise it. I slammed
the first SF3 hard, and the others got a lil' better. But still, many
contend that the "Three's" still need improvement. We coomplain about
parries, what could have been done to make them better? Speed,
character design, strength, supers....what could have been done? Just
interested in feedback and the opinions of fellow fighting gamers. ^_^
tortoise
nefdar <nef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Like all the other slam supers the gigas can be jumped out of unless
he
> catches you out of a move or during a recovery
exactly. out of a move or in recovery. the gigas only needs to be
landed once...Hugo players can patiently wait for the perfect moment to
land it. Not very many people can play absolutely perfectly for the
entire match.
>I've only been hit by it once and ever since
> no Hugo player has ever landed one
but how many hugo players play him well? I doubt very many do.
, as long as you don't get in his face
> like an idiot he'll never get you.
"in his face like an idiot" is street fighter 3. yun, yang, ibuki, ken
and ryu (seems all the other characters are there for decoration) all
want to be in your face trying to make you stuff their quick basics so
they can be chained into a super. as has been said by many people on
this newsgroup, there is no distance game in SF3 at all.
> You don't need supers or high risk
> moves to beat him, he's got nothing.
nobody ever said he's any good.
> It's not hard to "run away and stay
> out of throw range the entire time" against him, he has no effective
moves
> to chase you down.
except being outside of gigas range (which has a ton of range for a
throw in SF3) means being outside of your desired range where you can
unleash your flurry of overheads and jabs...if you are beyond gigas
range you need to resort to roundhouses and fierces, or distance
attacks. if people feared my gigas so much they stayed out of the
close range, I'd be happy :)
> I fear his hammer punch a lot more than the gigas
> breaker,
sure, the hammer frenzy is a guaranteed hit...jab,jab,jab,jab,hammer
frenzy! but a hammer frenzy very rarely turns the match completely
around or allows you to win it out of nowhere.
and that's on the jacked up damage machine here where a gigas
> instantly kills you(no matter who you are or how much life you have, I
> think it would do enough damage to kill Akuma twice over).
>
yeah the gigas kills you almost instantly, and it only takes one
mistake for it to land (provided the hugo player doesnt choke under the
pressure, which I do often :) very few people can play an entire match
without making at least one semi-large mistake.
Matt
--
nefdar
> and ryu (seems all the other characters are there for decoration) all
> want to be in your face trying to make you stuff their quick basics so
> they can be chained into a super. as has been said by many people on
> this newsgroup, there is no distance game in SF3 at all.
>
I dunno, I always stay at the edge of my longest range move against him, I
fear grapplers. Z taught me that lesson long ago.
> except being outside of gigas range (which has a ton of range for a
> throw in SF3) means being outside of your desired range where you can
> unleash your flurry of overheads and jabs...if you are beyond gigas
> range you need to resort to roundhouses and fierces, or distance
> attacks. if people feared my gigas so much they stayed out of the
> close range, I'd be happy :)
>
Thing is, you have to parry or block or jump or something in order to pull
out a 720 move without jumping. You can see when a Hugo is setting up his
gigas most of the time. You can whiff a dragon punch right in his face and
he can't gigas you very effectively(of course he can bounce you off the wall
and rape you but that's beside the point). He just can't pull it out of
nowhere unless you give him a way to. I will admit that the Hugos I deal
with probably are not the best in the world but still I see getting hit by a
gigas breaker as more of a fluke than anything else. Does it grab your
limbs the way that a FAB did? I've never seen it happen but if it did then
it would work a lot better, I dunno. I'm sure that if you came down here
and picked Hugo you'd take me to school, but as for what I've seen the gigas
is easy to ruin. Just stand next to the Hugo as he gets up and then as he
rises jump straight up and come down into combo of choice, since you're next
to them they are spinning the joystick in a frenzy and are automatically
whacked as they miss their super. I have yet to see a Hugo that doesn't
fall for it 3/4 of the time, the other 1/4 of the time they screw up the
motion.
> yeah the gigas kills you almost instantly, and it only takes one
> mistake for it to land (provided the hugo player doesnt choke under the
> pressure, which I do often :) very few people can play an entire match
> without making at least one semi-large mistake.
>
Oh yeah, it is the great equalizer, much like the FAB was, but it is much
harder to land than a FAB ever was. Hugo needed it to be a little better
than it is, I don't usually complain about the gigas all that much. He
needs to be able to kill you in one hit, it's his only chance.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone disagree with the statement that Hugo is
the worst character in 3s? I'd like to see some other character that sucks
this bad. I haven't played several of them yet, I spent a lot of time with
Chun and Hugo, opposite ends of the spectrum I guess, I racked up with Chun
but couldn't win a single match with Hugo. It seems like it takes half an
hour for his 360 throws to actually come out, I'm already poked into a
half-of-your-lifebar combo before the animation actually grabs the
opponent. If he had a decent advance move like Z's green glove or some kind
of comboable special it would help but as it is you have to play him like Z
but only without any of Z's power, since he can't just instantly suck you up
into his crotch and crush your head like Z could. Hugo throws way too slow
to be a good grappler. Anybody out there have any success with him against
good players, if so I'd like to hear stories. I always like to use underdog
characters but only if they have some redeeming qualities, where are his?
Don't tell me I'm right in my theory that the gigas really is all he has.
nefdar
--------
nefdar
Tenchi wrote:
> I just realized something. We have all (just about) covered all of our
> own opinionated reasons for "what's wrong with SF3." Is there anything
> Capcom could have done to make it [more] liked instead of criticized?
> If you think about it, more people slam SF3 than praise it. I slammed
> the first SF3 hard, and the others got a lil' better. But still, many
> contend that the "Three's" still need improvement. We coomplain about
> parries, what could have been done to make them better? Speed,
> character design, strength, supers....what could have been done? Just
> interested in feedback and the opinions of fellow fighting gamers. ^_^
Now, I already like three, it's good as long as you accept it as a seperate game and
don't compare it endlessly to the king ST, it's obviously not that good but since there
are no more ST machines we have to take what we can get. Therefore my list of changes
may be shorter than most. What I think should change:
1. Turn down the damage on the damn supers. Big time. Like cut it in half. I don't
like the way that the entire game revolves around landing your super.
2. Put Akuma back into whatever hell-hole they pulled him out of.
3. The balance is better than any other three game, but it's still not great. Some
characters just suck, do something to help them out. Giving Hugo a new move or two or
maybe turn up his footspeed. Stop punishing Sean more and more every single game,
stuff like that.
4. Stop giving people super art power for parrying. Not getting hit is reward enough.
5. Taking out special cancels wouldn't hurt my feelings, although I accept that that
is supposedly a "SFIII trademark".
6. Finally, make the super art choice a real choice. Most characters have an obvious
best super, tune up the others or tune down that one to make a decision out of it. If
I'm Chun, I have a harder time deciding upon my outfit color than my super art.
tortoise
nefdar <nef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I dunno, I always stay at the edge of my longest range move against
him, I
> fear grapplers. Z taught me that lesson long ago.
who do you use in SF3? the vast majority of the characters in SF3 lose a
lot of their worth as soon as they get out of close range. you really
can't control anyone from a distance since projectiles and similiar
moves are the easiest to parry.
> Thing is, you have to parry or block or jump or something in order to
pull
> out a 720 move without jumping.
yeah, by far the biggest drawback to the super. but there are more
options to land it than it seems. after a parry (i've never done this,
beyond my skills), after a whiffed super (this is easy to do), getting
up, jumping, during a purposely whiffed lariat (people fall for this a
lot it seems)
> You can see when a Hugo is setting up his
> gigas most of the time. You can whiff a dragon punch right in his
face and
> he can't gigas you very effectively
no but he can just do a crouching forward after you land which knocks
you down and gives him the upperhand for the moment. his crouching
forward is a life saver a lot :)
>Does it grab your
> limbs the way that a FAB did?
actually i've been wondering about this. it seems like alex's hyperbomb
can grab a lot of stuff but so far I haven't been able to do the gigas
in nearly as many situations as the hyperbomb.
>I'm sure that if you came down here
> and picked Hugo you'd take me to school
oh no :) I like hugo and all, but I'm far from any kind of SF expert,
especially with hugo. i decided to start using him because no one at my
local arcade has the slightest clue what to expect from him. that more
than anything is why I've been having decent luck with him. i also
disagree with taking top tier characters just because they are top tier.
hugo looked cool to me so I started using him basically.
> but as for what I've seen the gigas
> is easy to ruin. Just stand next to the Hugo as he gets up and then
as he
> rises jump straight up and come down into combo of choice, since
you're next
> to them they are spinning the joystick in a frenzy and are
automatically
> whacked as they miss their super.
almost all of my competition is pretty dumb to command throws...they
will ALWAYS try to sweep me, overhead me, whatever as I get up and they
always eat the gigas. what you just mentioned would stuff it for sure,
but then i'd have to be even more careful with it. instead of waiting
for a 70% chance of landing it I'd wait even longer for that 100%
chance.
> Oh yeah, it is the great equalizer, much like the FAB was, but it is
much
> harder to land than a FAB ever was.
but did the FAB ever do 75%? i havent played any pre alpha street
fighters very seriously. im not saying the gigas is the perfect move or
that hugo is a good character. because he's obviously not. all I'm
saying is the gigas is one of the few things he has that lets him win oh
I dunno 7 out of 20 games instead of 1 out of 20 (pulled those out of
my ass) you just have to be careful and patient with it, and against
average competition you will be able to land it. I land it against my
local competition a fair bit. i never said the gigas will allow hugo to
take on Street Fighter gods, he's dead no matter what against them.
> I always like to use underdog
> characters but only if they have some redeeming qualities, where are
his?
I havent played 3s...but from my 2i observations he has very little over
all. not only do just about all his specials suck, but so do most of
his basics. i dont even try to use that hand smack, his DP+K, or his
HCB+K (why not just SPD?), at all. His short lariat is somewhat ok, and
I'll throw in the medium every once in a great while. but his roundhouse
lariat is just asking for it.
from what i can tell (i'm far from an expert) his jab is good in
general, his jumping strong is great air to air (close) and his jumping
roundhouse is awesome air to air (far.) his crouching forward can be a
lifesaver because it slows the pace down. his standing fierce is pretty
good anti air if your opponent jumps from far and you start it a bit
early. other than that it's SPD and Gigas, and that's it. anyone else
know of a
Juggernaut
Does it grab your
limbs the way that a FAB did? I've never seen it happen but
if it did then
it would work a lot better, I dunno.
Yes, I have seen it and done it to people who stick out their roundhouses or forwards and it works.
Just stand next to the Hugo as he gets up and then as he
rises jump straight up and come down into combo of choice,
What if I parry your first hit when you come down and then gigas, or if I don't have it a normal SPD would do fine.
It seems like it takes half an
hour for his 360 throws to actually come out
I don't know who do you play against while using Hugo but his SPD is instant unlike Alex's which has a starting animation, if your opponent is standing next to you, chances are the SPD will work even if they tried to jab their way out of it.
If he had a decent advance move like Z's green glove or some kind
of comboable special it would help but as it is you have to play
him like Z
Try to use his palm strike(hcb+punch) more often, it has way better range then it's shown and people don't rush at you as often because that will stun them and you can do a c.forward for a 2-hit combo. Now to me you can't play Hugo like Z, they're the same type of characters (grapplers) but they're too different for the same strategy to work. It's like asking to play T.Hawk the same as playing Z, you can't do it. Hugo doesn't have a really good tick as far as I know, the only one that sort of works is the jump in attack (I prefer roundhouse), s.short then the new walking/running grab with short, it's pretty quick and most people gets thrown by that.
I always like to use underdog
characters but only if they have some redeeming qualities
The same here, Hugo is my favorite character to play as because it's so fun to win with him, and some people have told me this and recently I have experienced with it myself. Hugo has a pretty good intimidating factor going when he has the gigas charged up and he's walking towards you, for some people they just want to get away fast!!!
Now it would be fun for me to play on a machine which has the damage
jacked up like the one mentioned in Atlanta where the gigas means instant
win, here I believe is on normal and it does about 65% to normal people(Ryu/Ken)
and an extra 10-15 % (I'm not sure) to Akuma/Yun/Yang/Ibuki/Makoto, I believe
it has something to do with the size thing. Personally I hate fighting
Necro with Hugo, it takes so much thinking and anticipation it exhausts
me out after 4-5 matches, then I resort to using Alex (stun-headbutt baby).
Play on,
Tenchi
guy's complaint was: 1) Why make another Shoto. 2) Why the hell was he
in X-Men: COTA and 3) "Why don't he talk?"
*LOL* Granted #3 was just a meager complaint and holds no merit, but, I
thought everyone else thought Akuma was cool. The storyline additions
to SF they've made since his appearance, i.e. killing his brother
Kouken, who just happens to be Ken and Ryu's master, personal vendetta
against Ryu for not awakening his evil/true power, the intro with him
and Gen in A3 *LOL*, I didn't mind Akuma at all...unless you wanna count
fighting Shin Akuma in A2....the bastard!
Getting back to SF3, I agree with your points, although, I still say
Sean isn't a pushover anymore. As for the super cancels, they couldn't
be a SF3 trademark. They were introduced in SFEX first. I guess Capcom
figured it's okay to take an idea from a lesser enjoyed and liked SF
game and put it in SF3, instead of Alpha-fying it. ;-p
Tenchi
nefdar
> lot of their worth as soon as they get out of close range. you really
> moves are the easiest to parry.
>
Usually Chun, I get at one leg's length and poke hugo to death.
> > Thing is, you have to parry or block or jump or something in order to
> pull
> > out a 720 move without jumping.
>
>
> yeah, by far the biggest drawback to the super. but there are more
> options to land it than it seems. after a parry (i've never done this,
> beyond my skills), after a whiffed super (this is easy to do), getting
> up, jumping, during a purposely whiffed lariat (people fall for this a
> lot it seems)
>
Some whiffed supers can be gigased, some can't. Gigasing a blocked Chun
super #2 works great but doing it after a Shoryureppa is hard as hell, since
you are not in the blockstun anymore as Ken comes down. The whiffed lariat
idea may work well though, I'll give that a try.
> actually i've been wondering about this. it seems like alex's hyperbomb
> can grab a lot of stuff but so far I haven't been able to do the gigas
> in nearly as many situations as the hyperbomb.
>
It is unfortunate that Hugo's motions are not as easy as Alex's. If his
throws were half circles and super was a single circle you could pull it on
people all day long. If they are going to bring back the double circle
supers why don't they bring back the charge supers? I just don't feel right
doing Remy's super with QCFx2 and kick.
> > Oh yeah, it is the great equalizer, much like the FAB was, but it is
> much
> > harder to land than a FAB ever was.
>
> but did the FAB ever do 75%?
No, more like about 60%, but with Z you probably landed a few piledrivers to
soften them up. With Hugo you're lucky to ever get a command throw out
without some jab stuffing you.
Sorry if I bash the big guy but when I heard that a real grappler was going
to show up in III and not that Alex poser I really got excited and then they
gave me this sack of crap character. I was just a little disappointed. His
only redeeming quality is that you can hit people with his ass but Mika
could do that and she's a hell of a lot cuter. Well at least you get to see
Poison posing on the screen :).
nefdar
--------
Sean Gilley
> like the way that the entire game revolves around landing your super.
>
Naw man, they just have the damage turn up at N.Dekalb that's all
> 2. Put Akuma back into whatever hell-hole they pulled him out of.
>
Chun-li just needs to die too, i've always hated the bitch
>
> 3. The balance is better than any other three game, but it's still not great. Some
> characters just suck, do something to help them out. Giving Hugo a new move or two or
> maybe turn up his footspeed. Stop punishing Sean more and more every single game,
> stuff like that.
>
> 4. Stop giving people super art power for parrying. Not getting hit is reward enough.
>
> 5. Taking out special cancels wouldn't hurt my feelings, although I accept that that
> is supposedly a "SFIII trademark".
>
I dunno, I think special cancels is an EX trademark and the parrying is a SF3 trademark
> 6. Finally, make the super art choice a real choice. Most characters have an obvious
> best super, tune up the others or tune down that one to make a decision out of it. If
> I'm Chun, I have a harder time deciding upon my outfit color than my super art.
This is one of the many reasons why I like Necro.....none of his supers suck, it just
depends on how you like to play ;)
Oh yeah, if you wanna play me again at 3S, i'll be up at N.Dekalb on Friday night.
nefdar
> >
>
> Chun-li just needs to die too, i've always hated the bitch
>
Ha ha very funny :)
> I dunno, I think special cancels is an EX trademark and the parrying is a SF3 trademark
Yeah, you're probably right, but I still don't like them. I don't like it when somebody
spazzes on the stick and a combo into a super comes out.
> Oh yeah, if you wanna play me again at 3S, i'll be up at N.Dekalb on Friday night.
I may do that, no promises though, that mall is 2 and a half hours from my house. Just the
lengths I'll go to play SF. :)
nefdar
--------
sol t kim
>In article <37CAE8E2...@hotmail.com>,
> nefdar <nef...@hotmail.com> wrote:
i've been reading this discussion about Hugo's Gigas breake super, and
both tortoise and nefdar made interesting points. however, i feel that
there is something that both are missing.
Yes, Gigas breaker is good. it can turn the whole match around,
and all that. but that's not the problem. the problem is that 1) against a
good player, Hugo cannot build a meter. similiar problem goes on with Alex
as well (at least in NG and 2i. i hear he's good in 3s, donno) in a little
less degree. when i played against Eddie Lee's Ibuki, i barely managed to
build ONE hyperbomb entire game. sure, i grabbed him with it at the end of
2nd round, but it didn't matter, i died. and i'm pretty sure if he didn't
give me a little break at the beginning of a 1st round, i wouldn't have
been able to even do that. problem 2) yes, you can grab annoying in your
face characters if you anticipate their move and if you are out of your
block stun. the whole point is, that a good y/y/i/a/r/k players do not let
you do those two. ask yourself: can i parry this? parrying, which is a
lot more easier than gigas breaker is impossble if you are playing hugo
against those characters. if you miss the move once, it's chian into super
time.
i'm not saying i can do above stuff. i'm saying i played against
the best and now i understand why Hugo/Alex are at the bottom of the
chart. (at least in NG/2i)
--
Jcres2672
>with fb, fb, fb, fb, dp...repeat...now repeating gets a smack to the face
>via parry, as it should...and unlike counters in A2, you have to see it
>coming, not counter 10 mins after it hits
ummmm NO!, well first off lemme just say that if you still fall victim to
fireball, dp....repeat....then that's your own fault, there are plenty of ways
to counter such tactics via a well timed jump, etc. The parry system that
exists today totally diminishes the overall gameplay that made SF2 such a great
game. Classic poking, spacing, pixil damage,long distance, cerebral strategies
are almost non-existent in the sf3 series due to the parry. parries, along with
the hop punch present a somewhat mindless brand of Sfing that caters to it's
horribly designed cast of characters who, despite their subtle differences,
pretty much have the same mid-range to up close strategy. and if you want to
use one example of SF excellence please do not refer to any of the alpha's.
AC's, Vism, and CC's are just as ridiculous and detremental to the game as
parries are.
>bet you were a shoto. shoto's in sf3:3s aren't that diff from shotos in
>sf2:ww...if you have a character unchanged for 10 years, any move he has is
>gonna be predictable. (wow, you did a dp when i jumped in, didnt see that
>coming (parry, \/ combo->super->juggle->chuckle)
believe it or not, despite the fact that SF is almost a decade old, shotos
still do take a considerable amount of skill to play, just observe players such
as John Choi and Alex Valle, Daigo, noone I've seen has even come close to
playing shotos as flawlessly as they do, and there's a whole lotta skill
involved. The situation you just described (parrying an uppercut) basically
symbolizes what's wrong with the parry system. The fact the jumping has a less
risk and more reward ratio in sf3 is completely moronic IMO.
>i still maintain there are plenty of extras in sf3
>
extras/new features do not necessarily mean that it makes the game better.
enhanced specials are OK, various jumps are cool, launchers I can live with,
hop punches are not needed, and the additional animation only slows the game
down considerably, making it play at such a lethargic pace.
you wanna play a better SF game, play SFEX2+, it's not great but not bad
either, certianly better than any sf3 game ^_^
Master John
Jcres2672
>don't. Since you seem to know what you're talking about, I choose to believe
>the
>former. Unless you're jumping in and chaining all day or throwing out the
>same
>poke at the same time all the time you will not get parried much in my
>experience. If parries required a motion they would be impossible to do in a
>real fight thusly ruining the concept.
>
>nefdar
difficult. Option Select parrying pretty much takes little to no effort to
utilize effectively. What needs to be done with the parry is to give it a whiff
animation, thus making it a hella risky and at the same time diminishing its
overall dominance in regards to gameplay
Master John
Jcres2672
>
>I just realized something. We have all (just about) covered all of our
>own opinionated reasons for "what's wrong with SF3." Is there anything
>Capcom could have done to make it [more] liked instead of criticized?
>If you think about it, more people slam SF3 than praise it. I slammed
>the first SF3 hard, and the others got a lil' better. But still, many
>contend that the "Three's" still need improvement. We coomplain about
>parries, what could have been done to make them better? Speed,
>character design, strength, supers....what could have been done? Just
>interested in feedback and the opinions of fellow fighting gamers. ^_^
OS parries a thing of the past. Do away with hop punching all together, it's a
mindless way of attacking IMO, just provide each character with a decent
overhead. Oh yeah, and NO AIR PARRIES. Jumping should be very risky not
beneficial to one's game. Get rid of chun or just revamp her design. 3S chun
has to be one of THEE biggest blunders every made by the capcom designers. She
is such a horrid design that people don't even like to use her in tourneys,
even though she's clearly tops in the game.
Master John
Jcres2672
>I don't
>like the way that the entire game revolves around landing your super.
Very much in agreement there, that and the fact that taunts play a key role in
the outcome of many matches (Q anyone?)
>2. Put Akuma back into whatever hell-hole they pulled him out of.
Very much agreed, although he does take damage like a bitch, his juggle combos
are just too scrubbified.
>3. The balance is better than any other three game, but it's still not
>great. Some
>characters just suck, do something to help them out. Giving Hugo a new move
>or two or
>maybe turn up his footspeed. Stop punishing Sean more and more every single
>game,
>stuff like that.
Balance is horrid. If it weren't for parries the balance would be even worse
(only positive aspect of the parry). Chun, akuma pretty much dominate the
field, while characters like necro, sean, yun, have been castrated.
>4. Stop giving people super art power for parrying. Not getting hit is
>reward enough.
another example of why the present parry system is flawed
>5. Taking out special cancels wouldn't hurt my feelings, although I accept
>that that
>is supposedly a "SFIII trademark".
I can live with them if the damage is significantly lowered, SIGNIFICANTLY!
>6. Finally, make the super art choice a real choice. Most characters have
>an obvious
>best super, tune up the others or tune down that one to make a decision out
>of it. If
>I'm Chun, I have a harder time deciding upon my outfit color than my super
>art.
heh, good point. Seems like each character has one main super that he/she
should use, while the other supers pose as mere gimicks.
Master John
nefdar
> difficult. Option Select parrying pretty much takes little to no effort to
> utilize effectively. What needs to be done with the parry is to give it a whiff
> animation, thus making it a hella risky and at the same time diminishing its
> overall dominance in regards to gameplay
I've thought about that myself. Maybe make the parries away + jab + short(away +
jab + short = parry, jab + short or towards + jab + short = throw). Then you get a
tekken-esque reversal system, except all you get is a parry into whatever like
now. However this would allow a "missed parry" animation to give you an opening.
Only about a half second at most of a whiff animation so as not to make them
utterly useless, but that's plenty of time to make it risky. Also not giving you
any super for a parry wouldn't hurt my feelings either. Another option, a little
more radical, is to make all supers only charge one stock and making a parry
consume a tad of super. That way ye olde parry -> super becomes impossible. I
like the concept of parrying and have defended it many times, but after playing a
lot more SF3 lately I really see where all the complaints are coming from... the
concept is good, the execution is bad. Just some ideas for SF4 :)
nefdar
--------
nefdar
> is such a horrid design that people don't even like to use her in tourneys,
> even though she's clearly tops in the game.
Now I've gotta disagree with you here. Be specific on what problems her design
has here that aren't far more prevelant (or is it prevelent? gotta be careful
with the spelling around here lately) in other characters in that game.
nefdar
--------
nefdar
> field, while characters like necro, sean, yun, have been castrated.
Hey Sean, no matter how many times you say it nobody will give ol' Necro any
respect will they?
Sean I have to agree with, not enough Yuns around me to make a good determination
on that, but Necro is easily in the top five characters in that game in my
opinion. Top three possibly. The only character that I can think of that clearly
and obviously beats him is Akuma. You've got a fight on your hands with anyone
else if the Necro knows what he's doing.
nefdar
---------
Infinity
1. The #2 super. It's so easy to combo even an old man like me can pick a
button and buffer it in, you get to juggle them after it connects and you
get TWO of 'em!
2. B+Fierce has crazy priority and NO recovery time.
3. Standing RH (not the knee) has mystical range. You can kick people in
the face when they're trying to sweep you from long range.
4. Air superiority; Double fierce, stomp, air throw ...
You can win a lot of matches with only using Fierce & Forward and that's
just sick.
--
I am the rocks of the eternal shore, crash upon me and be broken!!
Infi...@Danc.Com
nefdar wrote in message <37EFFE3B...@hotmail.com>...
Magicnerd8
-Deltakid
"The ultimate taunt: Pissing on a shoto's leg as he leaves."