WHATEVER HAPPENED TO TOMO OHIRA AND MIKE WATSON
JIGNASTICS
Two of the most talented people to ever play Hyper Fighting,CE and
SSF,IMHO they are the greatest players Southern California has ever
seen.....but what happened to them??
Milo D. Cooper
Alpha counters, custom combos, and the diminishment of enthusiasm
that this crap causes in non-scrubs.
--
/|__Milo D. Cooper____EverQuest character modeler__|\
\| www.milos-chalkboard.net www.everquest.com |/
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right? Unless you think
ST sucked ass...;)
--
Tired of Student Government Insiders?
Tired of Student Government?
Tired of Students?
Tired?
Milo D. Cooper
> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>
> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all the
time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
otherwise).
I know what the @!#$ I'm talking about. Next time, assume
that *you* are wrong, not that *I* am. Unless you want to wind
up like You-Know-Who.
xe...@hotmail.com
In article <355694EC...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
"Milo D. Cooper" <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>
> > Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> >
> > Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>
> Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all the
> time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
> otherwise).
In fact, Watson went on to beat tomo down 100-3 or something like that on ST,
or that is how the story is told these days.
But aside from that, watson played alpha1, alpha2 ...and i think sf3? I know
he went to vegas for a1, b3 for alpha2.
Derek
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
svil...@crystald.com
In article <6j73gu$ipu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
[snizzip]
>
> But aside from that, watson played alpha1, alpha2 ...and i think sf3? I
know
> he went to vegas for a1, b3 for alpha2.
>
> Derek
>
In fact, I remember Graham Wolfe beating Watson down on alpha2 at B3.
(it was ugly)
Mike was badass back in the day, tho :) ["worlds finest" daze]
Ted
xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <355694EC...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
> "Milo D. Cooper" <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> > >
> > > Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
> >
> > Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all the
> > time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
> > otherwise).
>
> In fact, Watson went on to beat tomo down 100-3 or something like that on ST,
> or that is how the story is told these days.
>
> But aside from that, watson played alpha1, alpha2 ...and i think sf3? I know
> he went to vegas for a1, b3 for alpha2.
>
> Derek
>
He was at B3....i don't think so. And was the king of ST...i doubt that...i
played him in Vegas 2 years ago....not that great...but his old sagat was
well...whos old sagat doesn't suck..
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
In article <355694EC...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
Milo D. Cooper <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>>
>> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>
> Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all the
>time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
>otherwise).
>that *you* are wrong, not that *I* am. Unless you want to wind
>up like You-Know-Who.
Don't you dare. Anyways, that's why I put the "right?" up there.
Next time, assume that *I* am not pegboy.
Milo D. Cooper
> Ted wrote:
>> xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> "Milo D. Cooper" <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all the
>>> time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
>>> otherwise).
>>
>> or that is how the story is told these days.
>>
>> But aside from that, watson played alpha1, alpha2 ...and i think sf3? I know
>> he went to vegas for a1, b3 for alpha2.
>
> played him in Vegas 2 years ago....not that great...but his old sagat was
> well...whos old sagat doesn't suck..
Watson was long out of ST practice by the time Alpha One tour-
naments were taking place. He was the best when ST was at its
peak, your opinion be damned; the game was long dead two years
ago, and he'd moved on to Alpha One (which I don't think he ever
liked much). I saw him play many times during the days of ST
tournaments; what you saw in Vegas was nothing, and if you're
referring in particular to the ST/Alpha One tournament get toge-
ther, where Bob Painter and John Choi took number one, respec-
tively, then I was there, so I know for certain.
I've been where you haven't. Get off me.
DreamTR
>>> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>>
Mike still plays a2 and 2nd impact out here near Monterey Park with Martin
Vega..he still goes to Golfland sometimes...no tourneys as of late.....and that
a2 tourney for b3 was very early......he's much improved....
High Kick, Ground Pound....Repeat....The only way to victory!!!!
Cheating? Throwing? Winning....
JW
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
In article <355694EC...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
>> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
Right. Wrong guy, Tomo is the one that was listed as quiting at
Super, not Watson.
> Played all the time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will
> insist otherwise).
That silly person, it seems, is John Choi:
From Dejanews:
Subject: Re: what ever happened to the old school players
From: John Choi <ez06...@mailbox.ucdavis.edu>
Date: 1997/05/01
Message-ID:
<Pine.GSO.3.95.970501...@dilbert.ucdavis.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
[More Headers]
[Subscribe to alt.games.sf2]
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Student wrote:
> What ever happened to the players of the good old sf days. What ever
> became of Tomo, Thomas osaki, Mike? All the players that were a part of
> the sfa2 strategy guide, how did they fare (mike, graham, martin, tom
> etc.) in the recent tournament.
Tomo retired at Super SF. Mike Watson took his place starting from
Super Turbo and became the new #1 player for Southern Cal. He pretty much
ruled the competition from ST to Alpha 1. Alex Valle was around then but
didn't place high in any of the tourneys. When SFA2 rolled around, Alex
suddenly became #1 and Watson became #2. With the advent of SF3, Watson
retired also. Thomas Osaki graduated from Berkeley and entered "The real
world" at the end of ST. A lot of the SFA2 strategy guide writers did not
play in the recent SF3 tournament. Either they retired or couldn't make
it. Tom Cannon placed in the upper half of the players I believe. So did
Tony Ngo. Alex Valle took 2nd.
> every other recent sf for that matter? I never heard of Alex before the
> Alphas why all the sudden is he one of two players to always win?
He is the first one to really exploit Custom Combos to its
potential. His "Valle CC" is still the most powerful technique in SFA2. I
guess from then, it just "clicked" for him. He is an awesome player that
just tears apart his opposition. His ultra aggressive playing style is
legendary...
> chicago tournament in june, or do most of you consider it a waste of
> time. If anything, it's worth showing up to showdown people who have
> been talking shit for a while now, and face the potiential diverse
> competition from around the country (rather then the group in california
> where the same players place relative in the same spot every time, and
> claim their
Several players have traveled out of California to face
competition from other parts of the US. Mike Watson went to the Chicago
tourney for Super SF and took first. Graham Wolf entered the SFA3 Chicago
tourney and placed second. I along with Tom and Tony Cannon have gone to
MIT for B2(Boston Brawl) to play against the best from the east. I believe
that there are good players all over the US, not just in California. I
don't know if anyone from Cali is planning on going to the Chicago SF3
tourney. There are rumors that Alex Valle *might* attend. Those are just
rumors though. =)
John
<<End of dejanews. We now return to mdcooper>>
> I know what the @!#$ I'm talking about. Next time, assume
> that *you* are wrong, not that *I* am. Unless you want to wind
> up like You-Know-Who.
Thanks, but no thanks.
>/|__Milo D. Cooper____EverQuest character modeler__|\
>\| www.milos-chalkboard.net www.everquest.com |/
Tom Cannon
In article <3557B181...@javanet.com>, Ted <t...@javanet.com> wrote:
>
>
>xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> In article <355694EC...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
>> "Milo D. Cooper" <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>> >
>> > time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will insist
>> > otherwise).
>>
>> or that is how the story is told these days.
>>
>> But aside from that, watson played alpha1, alpha2 ...and i think sf3? I know
>> he went to vegas for a1, b3 for alpha2.
>>
>>
>
>He was at B3....i don't think so. And was the king of ST...i doubt that...i
>played him in Vegas 2 years ago....not that great...but his old sagat was
>well...whos old sagat doesn't suck..
>
Um...is that first bit supposed to mean that Mike Watson was *not* at B3?
He did, in fact, attend. If you're going to be snooty at least get your
fact's straight.
---
Tom Cannon
web...@inked.com
Milo D. Cooper
> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> Milo D. Cooper <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>>> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>>>
>>> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>>
>> Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo.
>
> Super, not Watson.
>
>> insist otherwise).
>
Perhaps you'd care to show us where Choi refutes my assertion
that Watson was the best at Super Turbo. Seems to me that Choi
plainly *supports* my claim, with the statement, "He pretty much
ruled the competition from ST to Alpha 1."
When I told you not not f*ck with me, I wasn't giving you a
command, I was giving you advice. Though you are generally a
cool guy who knows his fighting scene basics, you don't know
your sh*t -- not like those of us who have been on a.g.sf2 for
years, not like those of us who have seen the best play in per-
son, and who have actually fought against them, both casually
and in tournaments. My experience is first-hand; yours is vi-
carious. For the last time, do not lock horns with me; it's for
your own good. Or you really will become "StiltMan" Jr.
--
xe...@hotmail.com
In article <199805120522...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
dre...@aol.com (DreamTR) wrote:
> Mike still plays a2 and 2nd impact out here near Monterey Park with Martin
> Vega..he still goes to Golfland sometimes...no tourneys as of late.....and that
> a2 tourney for b3 was very early......he's much improved....
How was b3 early? Alpha2 had been out for 3.5 to 4 months by then. At this
time not everyone was playing chun li, thus b3 had more character variety
then any other tournament. Many people placed high without chun li (julien
beasly springs to mind right away). Many unknown tactics were being
displayed for the first time (valle CC being the most obvious and powerful
one). Granted alex had won 4 previous alpha2 tournaments, but this was the
big one where everyone walked out that day tyring to play like either choi or
valle or both.
And if i'm not mistaken, the SJG tournament that you drove all the way from
florida to was before b3.
Derek
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
In article <355886A1...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
Milo D. Cooper <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>>> Milo D. Cooper <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
>>>> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>>>> Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?
>>> Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo.
>> Right. Wrong guy, Tomo is the one that was listed as quiting at
>> Super, not Watson.
>>> Played all the time. Ranked number one (though some silly people will
>>> insist otherwise).
>> That silly person, it seems, is John Choi:
>> [... Deja News excerpt...]
>
> Perhaps you'd care to show us where Choi refutes my assertion
>that Watson was the best at Super Turbo. Seems to me that Choi
>plainly *supports* my claim, with the statement, "He pretty much
>ruled the competition from ST to Alpha 1."
At ST, I'm sure he does. I took your statement to mean that Mike
was supposed to be the ST *and* previous SF2 #1, not ST/A1, which is not
what you intended.
Anthony Cannon
In article <199805130207...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
DreamTR <dre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>How was b3 early? Alpha2 had been out for 3.5 to 4 months by then. At this
>>time not everyone was playing chun li, thus b3 had more character variety
>>then any other tournament.
[ chomp ]
>
>ummm...a whole 3 and a half months?? woohoo....Do u know how long we had been
>playing it in Florida?? A month....that's it....damn thing came out in May
>96....Chicago and California got it very early....that is extremely early
>considering that it takes quite some time for everyone to discover all the
>techniques....a2 has been completely dismantled, and a tournament about 6
>months later would have sufficed nicely....
When the game came out in Florida is irrelevant. B3 was originally
planned as a gathering of mostly California and Canadian players, all
of which who had been playing the game for about 4 monthes as Derek
said. The best time to run a gathering is when most people can attend,
and the end of July was the best date for a lot of people.
Furthermore, the pecking order in both Sunnyvale and Southern Hills had pretty
much been established, and both sets of players were highly primed due to
frequent local tournaments during the spring and early summer. IMHO,
A2 wasn't completely dismantled until the B2 timeframe (9-11 monthes later).
By that time, the tournament scene was winding down.
I think B3 was at a perfect time.
--
Tony Cannon
pon...@best.com
DreamTR
>How was b3 early? Alpha2 had been out for 3.5 to 4 months by then. At this
>time not everyone was playing chun li, thus b3 had more character variety
>beasly springs to mind right away). Many unknown tactics were being
>displayed for the first time (valle CC being the most obvious and powerful
>one). Granted alex had won 4 previous alpha2 tournaments, but this was the
>big one where everyone walked out that day tyring to play like either choi or
>valle or both.
>
>And if i'm not mistaken, the SJG tournament that you drove all the way from
>florida to was before b3.
>
>Derek
ummm...a whole 3 and a half months?? woohoo....Do u know how long we had been
playing it in Florida?? A month....that's it....damn thing came out in May
96....Chicago and California got it very early....that is extremely early
considering that it takes quite some time for everyone to discover all the
techniques....a2 has been completely dismantled, and a tournament about 6
months later would have sufficed nicely....
High Kick, Ground Pound....Repeat....The only way to victory!!!!
Cheating? Throwing? Winning....
= )
"waiting turtle cock sucking mother f--ker" (As quoted directly from many
Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Killer Instinct players)
Milo D. Cooper
> Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you'd care to show us where Choi refutes my assertion
>> that Watson was the best at Super Turbo. Seems to me that Choi
>> plainly *supports* my claim, with the statement, "He pretty much
>> ruled the competition from ST to Alpha 1."
>
> At ST, I'm sure he does. I took your statement to mean that Mike
> was supposed to be the ST *and* previous SF2 #1, not ST/A1, which is not
> what you intended.
How did you think that I meant that?
You: "Be nice if it was so, but Mike quit after Super, right?"
Me: "Wrong. Watson was the king of Super Turbo. Played all
the time. Ranked number one (though some silly people
will insist otherwise)."
Super Turbo is expressly indicated in the excerpt above. The
reference could not be more specific; I did not generalize with
anything like "Street Fighter, period" or "the Alphas" or "pre-
Alpha SF." Please explain how you drew "ST *and* previous SF2"
from my statements.
Mi...@my-dejanews.com
In article
<6ja4g3$jgc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> In article <199805120522...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> dre...@aol.com (DreamTR) wrote:
>
> > Mike still plays a2 and 2nd impact out here near Monterey Park with Martin
> > Vega..he still goes to Golfland sometimes...no tourneys as of late.....and that
> > a2 tourney for b3 was very early......he's much improved....
>
> time not everyone was playing chun li, thus b3 had more character variety
> then any other tournament. Many people placed high without chun li (julien
> beasly springs to mind right away). Many unknown tactics were being
> displayed for the first time (valle CC being the most obvious and powerful
> one). Granted alex had won 4 previous alpha2 tournaments, but this was the
> big one where everyone walked out that day tyring to play like either choi or
> valle or both.
B3 was a relatively early tournament
because the tactics that are now
commonplace were just being discovered
at the time. Although I am very flattered
that I "spring to mind" as placing highly at
B3 :), I have no doubt that I would have
stood no chance with sodom 8 months later
at B2. I think B2 was a much better
sampling of how a2 should be played at its
winningest. Everyone was using valle CCs,
and by and large, only Ken, Ryu, Rose, and
of course Chun Li stood any chance in the
tournament (john choi's excellent sakura
notwithstanding). This is not to diss the B3
players in any way, as I am certain the top
californians would have placed highly at B2,
but just to suggest that since the game was
still in its early stages, a lot of strategies
were working then that would not have
worked at B2. For example, I was able to do
well with Sodom (who gets CRUSHED by a
CCing opponent) because none of my
opponents exploited CC's to the degree
they can be. Similarly, Jason Cole, an
excellent Dhalsim player, was able to place
highly in many sunnyvale tournaments. And
we all know now that Dhalsim just gets his
ass kicked by anyone that knows how to
turtle like a bitch. Dave Spence, an
excellent dhalsim player, did not place well
at B2 despite his skill. This is because most
players at B2 knew how to beat Dhalsim
rather effortlessly. I am sure Spence would
have placed much highter at B3. I played
chun li at B2 and took 3rd place. There is no
way I would have placed third with Sodom
(unfortunately). If you ignore the wacky
finals, 1st place was taken by John Choi
(Ken), and second by Sirloin (Rose/Ryu).
4th was Eddie Chung (Chun Li) and 5th was
tied between Peter Ree (Chun Li) and Omar
Deloney (Rose). As we would now expect,
the top 6 were exclusively made up of the
"only 4 characters in SFA2".
Even in the Gamest SFA2 tourney, we see a
Bison(!) player taking 2nd place. We also
see Mike Pirring from sunnyvale place 2nd
with bison in a sunnyvale tournament (to
Stiltman's delight). These two awesome
results from great players do not change
the fact that bison sucks in SFA2 and today
would get wiped out by any chun li who can
hit stand strong.
So B3 was an early tournament because the
strategies being used at B3 were not yet
the ideal strategies to use to win in SFA2. I
had a lot of fun playing Sodom, but I one
day just had to give him up as a serious
character and take up Chun Li to win
consistently. It's too bad, but that's how
the lifetime of a game progresses. Heh, I
still remember back when ST was coming
out, everyone thought that Ryu was easily
the best, and that balrog sucked ass.
Julien
PS: It's "Beasley", not "Beasly"
> And if i'm not mistaken, the SJG tournament that you drove all the way from
> florida to was before b3.
>
> Derek
>
DreamTR
>So B3 was an early tournament because the
>strategies being used at B3 were not yet
>the ideal strategies to use to win in SFA2.
Finally!!! Someone who understood my point!!! This is what I tried to explain,
but to no avail to others on this newsgroup. The B3 was well timed because of
the many tourneys in Cali at the times before, but the "skill" level that is
achieved now was not there at the time.
Anthony Cannon
In article <6jc4qn$m4p$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <Mi...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>In article
><6ja4g3$jgc$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> xe...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
[ chomp ]
>B3 was a relatively early tournament
>because the tactics that are now
>commonplace were just being discovered
>at the time.
This I will agree with. B3 was definitely an "early tournament" for
A2. You can confirm this by looking at the B3 tape. Although there's
a lot of skillful play, you sometimes finding yourself wanting to scream
"why didn't he CC there!" or "why did that Rolento put an air knife in
his CC?!" Players just didn't know better at the time.
There is a difference between "early" and "too early" however (see below).
And B3 was not "too early".
>Although I am very flattered
>that I "spring to mind" as placing highly at
>B3 :), I have no doubt that I would have
>stood no chance with sodom 8 months later
>at B2. I think B2 was a much better
>sampling of how a2 should be played at its
>winningest. Everyone was using valle CCs,
>and by and large, only Ken, Ryu, Rose, and
>of course Chun Li stood any chance in the
>tournament (john choi's excellent sakura
>notwithstanding).
Very true. If you go back and look at the WarZone tapes
(the WarZone tournaments were run at approximately a weekly basis
in Sunnyvale in the monthes preceding B3), you'll see that most
people didn't use CC's. Most Zangief's got their kills with FABs,
etc. The reason that people in Sunnyvale starting using CC's
is that Alex Valle came up to LA and beat everyone down with them.
This goes back to the reason why most of the best competition in
the nation is in California. The more people that you have playing
against each other, the better that group will be in developing
skills and strategies. Historically, both the huge popularity of
SF in California and the Sunnyvale / LA rivalry have resulted in a
large "cross-pollenation" of players and tactics. B3 got these
players together and let them try out their best strategies against
each other (in which *eveyrone* learned something).
I'm sure people would have figured out CC's eventually on their own,
but seeing Alex's final custom with Sagat left absolutely no doubt
that they were the single most overpowered feature in the game.
>This is not to diss the B3
>players in any way, as I am certain the top
>californians would have placed highly at B2,
>but just to suggest that since the game was
>still in its early stages, a lot of strategies
>were working then that would not have
>worked at B2.
Agreed.
[ lots of good stuff snipped for space ]
>So B3 was an early tournament because the
>strategies being used at B3 were not yet
>the ideal strategies to use to win in SFA2.
Also agreed. However, B3 was not "too early" in that the
skills of all it's competitors had matured to a level where the
best way for them to improve would be to play against people outside
of their local regions. Once you've reached that point, it's
an excellent time to start running tournaments. People are unlikely
to get any better on their own, anyway.
P.S. I think the first *competitive* tournament in California would
be the Southern Hill one in the summer of 1996. In that tournament,
many more people were using CC's (including a few monster ones by that
little Joe kid playing Chun Li) and the skill level was overall much
improved. This tournament was 1 month after B3. Coincidence?
--
Tony Cannon
pon...@best.com
Anthony Cannon
In article <199805131542...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
DreamTR <dre...@aol.com> wrote:
>>So B3 was an early tournament because the
>>strategies being used at B3 were not yet
>>the ideal strategies to use to win in SFA2.
>
>but to no avail to others on this newsgroup. The B3 was well timed because of
>the many tourneys in Cali at the times before, but the "skill" level that is
>achieved now was not there at the time.
Agreed.
I thought you meant that B3 would have been better if it were scheduled
at a later date (which is untrue, IMHO). Players definitely got better
after B3 (and drastically), so those people waving a flag "I got xth place
at B3, I'm ranked x in Cali. Woo!" should sit down (Is there even anyone
like that?)
--
Tony Cannon
pon...@best.com
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
In article <35595E38...@milos-chalkboard.net>,
>>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
> How did you think that I meant that?
Sleep depravation :(.