Throwing in fighting games, especially MvsC
Lavander San
I was never a real complainer about throwing.... if somebody has strider...
they better NOT complain about me throwing. If they do.. needless to say
they will recieve a full 10 minute lecture on their style and use with the
character strider, and why I need... and will continue to throw again.
Although in MvC I don't throw alot.
Now THIRD STRIKE!! Thats a different Story. Ken and Chun-Li in third strike
NEED to be thrown like hell. Same goes for Yang and Ibuki in second Impact.
I use Elena, and if im going against any one of the said characters above..
you better believe part of my stradegy will be to throw.
Especiall Ken... nobody needs to be thrown more than third strike ken
::shivers::
Lavander San
<whoa...@aol.com> wrote in message news:868fq2$3u0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> For a while now I've always wondered what the general opinion is...so I
> guess is as good a time as any to ask you guys what you think about
> throwing in fighting games. I find that in my experience, one or two
> throws is acceptable...but in any fighting game, if you use throws as a
> consistent part of your strategy, or throw three or more times during a
> match, the opponent regards you as "cheap" and whines and complains a
> lot. Well, I'm VERY offended by this. I've always been known as
> an "infamous" thrower by my rivals here in CT, especially in MvsC. (In
> fact my nicknames are "ThrowMaster" and Phil "Throw-Like-Hell" Burnell)
> Lots of people say that I'd be "no good" if I didn't throw...but look
> who's talking: those who can only win by using infinites (like RV or
> WM's), cheesy double-teams (GWM and anybody), or Strider players (nuff'
> said). Sure these people are good, but can they consistently win with
> Ryu, Hulk, regular Venom, Chun-Li, Wolverine (my favorite)...without
> employing one of these "cheap" strategies? Nope.
>
> Let me give you an example: in tournaments, I am known for pulling
> victories out of my ass with massive comebacks. For example, once I was
> Ryu and Wolverine, the opponent was GWM and Strider. Well after much
> double-team cheesiness and over priority bullshit, I found that I was
> facing a GWM with about 1/4 life and a full-life Strider. Well I
> finished GWM in my own way (namely, a Shinkuu-Hadoken to the face), but
> all I had left was Ryu with about 1/10 energy, against his unharmed
> Strider. Talk about an unfair match! So, to make it fair, I had to
> throw a few times...okay, more than a few...basically I used my nasty
> throw tactics to FP throw him about, oh, say 10 times...he hardly ever
> teched because it's so hard to tech that throw and well, he lost. Heh.
> The final move? He finished an Oroborous, I was in the corner and he
> had me trapped....so he did the 4-hit ground combo up close, I pushed
> blocked...and was able to throw him while he was still stunned from the
> last hit. He was PISSED. Everybody said that my victory was so "cheap"
> and that I had no skill.
>
> But what do you guys think? I think that being able to get such a
> victory, against such an over-powered character, with an underdog like
> Ryu, is a pretty big accomplishment. Generally I throw a lot, and
> people bitch about it. I don't think it's so bad:
> 1.) Throws generally do little damage. I mean, I had to throw Strider
> 10 times to kill him. The only time that throws are deadly are when you
> can auto-combo after them, like Gief's MP throw.
> 2.) Throws are not cheap at all. You can easily tech any throw if you
> are fast enough...they are NOT inescapable.
> 3.) If you're good enough, you'd be able to keep me away and render me
> unable to throw, right? So quit whining and get some skills so you can
> beat me!
>
> So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Sean Gilley
place. I was called cheap many times. MvC is the game I actually try to
throw you. Some people are just really really good at blocking everything
you throw out and the fact that you can airblock any move doesn't make it
any better. The way I think of it is if my opponent is too good at
blocking, I'll throw them. How else am I going to do damage. I could just
make them block supers or whatever, but I think that's even more cheesy
than throw traps. With throw traps you're at least giving them a chance to
attack you too.
Oh yeah, and about that awesome comeback you had. All I have to say to
that is Good Job! I would have laughed my ass off if I saw that kind of
comeback. Only because your opponent was stupid enough to get thrown that
many times. Tech hits are way too easy to do in MvC.
Here in Atlanta, everyone is basically no-throw. My throw game has gotten
really rusty because of this. I've been trying to throw people as much as
possible to try and convince them that they're a fun part of SF. You can
get some great mind games going sometimes. I haven't been too successful
in convincing them though. I get called "cheep" or they'll say "that's
dirty" or whatever. They'll get pissed and start to throw me back. Then
i'll say something like "Now you're getting the idea" :)
Ultima
[snip]
> So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
Well, MvC may be a bad example, as it's actually quite easy to throw
someone in that game, IMO. But in general, throwing takes skill. My
advice: Throw the bastards 15 ways from Sunday until they get used to
it. Ignore all attempts and claims of cheap. In fact, REVEL in the cheap
comments. DEMAND that they call you cheap, and try to be as "cheap" as
humanly possible. Be INSULTED if they call anyone ELSE cheap. Call
yourself the King of Cheap, and demand that they call you as such.
They'll either adapt, ot they keep losing. That's what I did around
here, and with the exception of one person, we're all better players for
it (though still no match for me in the cheese department). ^_^
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"How do you "perfect" gameplay? That's like saying music has
been "perfected" over thousands of years. Fun is a matter of
taste." - Jeff Williams 25/10/99
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
vaiteja
just same ol regular stuff.So one day I decided to beat everyone in the
arcade by throwing. And I went to the arcade with only throwing on my
mind. And when I got there, I threw like crazy and my arcade buddies ,
was stunned and they couldn't believe what i did to them. But then,
they got used to it by end of the day and everyone uses throw as skill
now.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Jinston
> victories out of my ass with massive comebacks. For example, once I was
> Ryu and Wolverine, the opponent was GWM and Strider. Well after much
> double-team cheesiness and over priority bullshit, I found that I was
> facing a GWM with about 1/4 life and a full-life Strider. Well I
> finished GWM in my own way (namely, a Shinkuu-Hadoken to the face), but
> all I had left was Ryu with about 1/10 energy, against his unharmed
> Strider. Talk about an unfair match! So, to make it fair, I had to
> throw a few times...okay, more than a few...basically I used my nasty
> throw tactics to FP throw him about, oh, say 10 times...he hardly ever
> teched because it's so hard to tech that throw and well, he lost. Heh.
> The final move? He finished an Oroborous, I was in the corner and he
> had me trapped....so he did the 4-hit ground combo up close, I pushed
> blocked...and was able to throw him while he was still stunned from the
> last hit. He was PISSED. Everybody said that my victory was so "cheap"
> and that I had no skill.
Look at it this way. The guy had Strider and LET you throw him 10 times.
The guy you were playing had no skill. STRIDER! All he had to do was
standing forward and combo you every attempt you made to throw or push block
your tick, etc.
--
Jinston
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whoa...@aol.com
guess is as good a time as any to ask you guys what you think about
throwing in fighting games. I find that in my experience, one or two
throws is acceptable...but in any fighting game, if you use throws as a
consistent part of your strategy, or throw three or more times during a
match, the opponent regards you as "cheap" and whines and complains a
lot. Well, I'm VERY offended by this. I've always been known as
an "infamous" thrower by my rivals here in CT, especially in MvsC. (In
fact my nicknames are "ThrowMaster" and Phil "Throw-Like-Hell" Burnell)
Lots of people say that I'd be "no good" if I didn't throw...but look
who's talking: those who can only win by using infinites (like RV or
WM's), cheesy double-teams (GWM and anybody), or Strider players (nuff'
said). Sure these people are good, but can they consistently win with
Ryu, Hulk, regular Venom, Chun-Li, Wolverine (my favorite)...without
employing one of these "cheap" strategies? Nope.
Let me give you an example: in tournaments, I am known for pulling
victories out of my ass with massive comebacks. For example, once I was
Ryu and Wolverine, the opponent was GWM and Strider. Well after much
double-team cheesiness and over priority bullshit, I found that I was
facing a GWM with about 1/4 life and a full-life Strider. Well I
finished GWM in my own way (namely, a Shinkuu-Hadoken to the face), but
all I had left was Ryu with about 1/10 energy, against his unharmed
Strider. Talk about an unfair match! So, to make it fair, I had to
throw a few times...okay, more than a few...basically I used my nasty
throw tactics to FP throw him about, oh, say 10 times...he hardly ever
teched because it's so hard to tech that throw and well, he lost. Heh.
The final move? He finished an Oroborous, I was in the corner and he
had me trapped....so he did the 4-hit ground combo up close, I pushed
blocked...and was able to throw him while he was still stunned from the
last hit. He was PISSED. Everybody said that my victory was so "cheap"
and that I had no skill.
But what do you guys think? I think that being able to get such a
victory, against such an over-powered character, with an underdog like
Ryu, is a pretty big accomplishment. Generally I throw a lot, and
people bitch about it. I don't think it's so bad:
1.) Throws generally do little damage. I mean, I had to throw Strider
10 times to kill him. The only time that throws are deadly are when you
can auto-combo after them, like Gief's MP throw.
2.) Throws are not cheap at all. You can easily tech any throw if you
are fast enough...they are NOT inescapable.
3.) If you're good enough, you'd be able to keep me away and render me
unable to throw, right? So quit whining and get some skills so you can
beat me!
So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
James
becuase they think they have a win in the bag!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
abuse what works..
throwing works well in most if not all SFers, so I will throw you whenever
you're open.
If you call me cheap, you're an idiot for standing there and being thrown. :)
mind games..get people pissed by 'cheap' throwing them, if they get pissed they
can't play right. hehehe
Peter "Mouko" Nguyen
~Xero-Crew~
Untitled Computer Fighter in the works...
http://members.aol.com/xerocrew/
RDM1976
rephrase. I don't like constant throwing. It's not that I think it's cheap,
but it is damn annoying. And people abuse it a helluva lot. Throws should
either be harder to execute or you should have a limited number of throws you
can do in a match. I play games at the arcade for fun and when someone throws
constantly it takes all the fun out of the game no matter if I win or lose.
However, if the situation is that I have alot of power and my opponent has
little, well I can understand why they'd start with the throwing. Anyway, if I
play someone who throws alot then I'll just remember who it was and not play
them if I see them again. If I'm gonna pay 50 cents to play, I'm gonna enjoy
it damn it. :o)
JB Gainz
>someone in that game, IMO. But in general, throwing takes skill.
Wait for oponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them. Not much skill
needed.
My
>advice: Throw the bastards 15 ways from Sunday until they get used to
>it.
Depends on what you want. Personally, I don't throw because I don't feel the
need to. It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move. If I am having
trouble in a match then I might feel the urge to throw.
> Ignore all attempts and claims of cheap. In fact, REVEL in the cheap
>comments. DEMAND that they call you cheap, and try to be as "cheap" as
>humanly possible. Be INSULTED if they call anyone ELSE cheap. Call
>yourself the King of Cheap, and demand that they call you as such.
LOL, whatever.
Lavander San
<< throwing is for losers and i think i'm the biggest
loser in south florida but i'm the loser with all the extra tokens in my
panties. >>
Woah that was awsome..... do you write your own lines?
Lavander-San
Belokk Latrom <belokk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000121010449...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> I don't think throwing is cheap, i mean sometimes it happens when you
don't
> even want it to, but still it's not cheap persay as in an infinite or a
certain
> tactic that overpowers anyone. there's no cheap thing about throwing, the
only
> reason people complain is because they haven't thought of it first. when
me and
> my friends play MvsC i always try to finish with a throw, why ? cause it
get's
> them pissed and they lose their concentration. but even then i try to make
the
> throw look cool like doing strider's kick throw into a combo now that's a
> stylish way to throw or doing gen's throw into the corner and then
juggaling
> them up with the uppercut kick thingie. everyone who can't stand being
thrown
> should learn to tech hit or not be a jackass and turtle. i remember
playing
> some fool when alpha 3 came out. i must have thrown them at least 10 times
in a
> match. at one point one guy started threatening me ... well i don't really
care
> cause i wasn't the one losing my cool and losing all that money, if they
think
> that throwing is cheap they should play another machine or just wait till
i'm
> done losing to the computer. throwing is for losers and i think i'm the
biggest
> loser in south florida but i'm the loser with all the extra tokens in my
> panties.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
>Wait for oponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them. Not much skill
>needed.
I am sure droves of regulars will tell you what is wrong with this
statement. Personally, I pass off all throw whiners as skill-less.
Belokk Latrom
Sam Bell
teleport and throw all the time. D was the master of throws...
Viscant
>>someone in that game, IMO. But in general, throwing takes skill.
>
>skill
>needed.
>
If you go for the throw there, you aren't using the full potential of the
throw. Right there, if they miss a move and are wide open, you can just attack
them. Most combos will do more than your biggest throw (unless you're a
grappler).
>Depends on what you want. Personally, I don't throw because I don't feel the
>need to. It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move. If I am having
>trouble in a match then I might feel the urge to throw.
Are you kidding? Throws take off what 3-5% damage in today's games? And they
now take 2 buttons to do? And some throws will miss because you're TOO CLOSE?!
(See Choc's A3 stuff. Add in Vega walking up to/pushing a dizzy character,
then throwing. It will occassionally whiff)
I think throws were weakened way too damn much lately. I think there needs to
be a middle ground between the 25% throws of WW, with monster range and ticks
that were almost unavoidable, and the throws of A3 and 3s that do nothing and
serve very little purpose--but still get morons pissed. Hm...I guess that is a
purpose.)
Not that there was anything wrong with WW and CE and HF throws. Personally, I
think that's what throwing should do. It should be a giant mistake to be
thrown and you should pay for it like such. I can understand how some people
would dislike it, and there were some genuinely tough throw traps. People
could make a beef that some very throw intensive strategies did take the fun
out of the game. Like, even though you can reverse throws in ST, sometimes
Dhalsim or Balrog traps can get real old, real quick. I can honestly see the
point (just don't bitch to me about it too much, because that's what the move
is for). Or even worse in WW/CE, with the Zangief SPD trap. Get swept, game
over. That's not fair.
Still, the main point as I see it, is that basic throws in any game are always
OK with me. Most throw traps are always OK with me (I tend to get exasperated
quicker with people who play standard shoto/Guile garbage than people who throw
a lot) as well. Still, I think that Capcom has pandered to these
anti-throwites too much in all their post ST games (EX series gets it OK), and
in the next real SF game, throws should take off at least 15%. It's still a
grave mistake to be thrown and you should pay accordingly.
JB Gainz
>skill
>>needed.
>
>statement.
Why don't you explain?
>Personally, I pass off all throw whiners as skill-less.
I'm not going say people who don't like throws are skill-less, but I will state
there is nothing hard about throwing your opponent after a missed super or
special. Yes, they can tech-hit, but that cannot always be pulled off. When
I first played Vs. games all I did was throw, before I learned chain combos. I
must have been one skillful beginner back then if throwing shows signs of
skill.
I mind care if people throw me (which rarely happens ). It is part of the
game. I just choose not to throw, because I find it boring... just my opinion.
.
.
.
" I'll kick Zangief's ass" - King of Tekken Tag Tournament
KikkoBoy01
current what, 8-15% (SF Alpha series and so on)
Throwing is cheap but hey this is war and anything and everything goes in WAR!
Jokker
reason to, for
example: If I am blocking a guys moves and he throws me, or if I was
playing a
guy who I knew used throws. Then I would probably use throws if presented
the opportunity. Otherwise I probably wouldn't. It's an understanding
between
the two players, like mercy. If I played a whole match with someone
without using
throws and then at the end of the third round he killed me with a throw I
think that
is "Cheap". As for getting TEN throws pulled off on you in one round,
well that's
just plain stupid.
Gann0n
>
> So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
>
>
I love throws. throws are fun...
exp with Juggy..
throw into HeadCrush.. throw Akuma out of his Raging Demon, then
Headcrush(XSF).. funfunfun! =)
and it helps that Juggy has the best looking throw in the Marvel
Games(IMHO).. pucks you up by your head, laughs at you, then slams
you.(COTA<?>/MSH only.. the laugh was taken out in XSF..hope it'll be
back in MvC2..)
yes I throw alot. P|-|33r /\/\3. =P
--
Gann0n
CainMarko in #capcom
"I will not stop intill you've tasted my brain meat."
Forge
if you keep getting thrown and hate it.. try this: STAY AWAY FROM YOUR
OPPONENT!
hehe simple eh?
heheh
actually I tend not to use throws much but I don't complain nor get
frustrated about ppl or the CPU using throws... its part of the game and
some of them look kewl!...
I guess my game is quite defensive so its easy for me to say huh? heheh.
<whoa...@aol.com> wrote in message news:868fq2$3u0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
>
>
Jeremy Balsley
"JB Gainz" <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000121004900...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
> >Well, MvC may be a bad example, as it's actually quite easy to throw
> >someone in that game, IMO. But in general, throwing takes skill.
>
skill
> needed.
>
> >advice: Throw the bastards 15 ways from Sunday until they get used to
> >it.
>
the
> need to. It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move. If I am having
> trouble in a match then I might feel the urge to throw.
This is pretty messed up.
"Wait for an opponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them."? Gee,
most
Light and Medium attacks take so little time to come out that you can't get
to
them before they recover. Heavy attacks may give you that window, but the
whole
point of any fighting game is trying to find a weakness in their defense and
exploit it. Even then, you can't usually walk up on a character after a
heavy attack
and expect to get an onopposed throw. That leaves special maneuvers and
super arts.
Whiff a Dragon Punch near me, and you deserve to be thrown. Whiff a
Shoryureppa,
and expect to get your ass tossed. If you bitch about it, I simply ignore
you and/or
call you a Fool.
"It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move."? Dude, you have to wade
into their
offense, getting right on top of them, before you can toss them. And if you
can throw
them, good bet is they can throw you. Even if you do throw them, they can
still reduce
the damage with a tech, or roll right back atcha after the throw (roll up to
throw after
being thrown). Ignore throws, and it becomes a super fest and/or a chipfest
(don't know
about you, but many of the people I play against like to do something called
blocking...)
Since I just met you and all, I'm going to keep civil about this. But you
do need to do
some serious thinking. Throwing has been in every Street Fighter game since
SF2: Clasic
(hell, it may have even been in SF1!) If it wasn't supposed to be there,
then Capcom
would have taken it out. They didn't. Therefor, it's there for a reason.
Not using
throws means you should go play something like Killer Instinct, and look how
good THAT
did.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Why don't you explain?
Anticipation is weak. It relies on the opponent attacking. I'm not sure how much
more elaboration I need to do on this point.
> I'm not going say people who don't like throws are skill-less, but I will state
> there is nothing hard about throwing your opponent after a missed super or
> special.
No, there isn't. Of course, you have to wait for them to actually *miss* a super
or special.
> Yes, they can tech-hit, but that cannot always be pulled off. When
> I first played Vs. games all I did was throw, before I learned chain combos. I
> must have been one skillful beginner back then if throwing shows signs of
> skill.
Or your opponents must have all sucked.
> I mind care if people throw me (which rarely happens ). It is part of the
> game. I just choose not to throw, because I find it boring... just my opinion.
Your loss.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> If I played a whole match with someone
> without using
> throws and then at the end of the third round he killed me with a throw I
> think that
> is "Cheap".
Uh... why? It's your own fault for getting caught by it.
EC
>>Wait for oponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them. Not much
>>skill
>>>needed.
>>
>>I am sure droves of regulars will tell you what is wrong with this
>>statement.
>
>Why don't you explain?
>
Well first off, you shouldn't throw here. Not because its skill less
or cheesy, but because if you can walk up and throw you should be able
to combo and/or super and/or vc and/or CC instead for more damage.
>>Personally, I pass off all throw whiners as skill-less.
>
>I'm not going say people who don't like throws are skill-less, but I will state
>there is nothing hard about throwing your opponent after a missed super or
>special. Yes, they can tech-hit, but that cannot always be pulled off. When
>I first played Vs. games all I did was throw, before I learned chain combos. I
>must have been one skillful beginner back then if throwing shows signs of
>skill.
>I mind care if people throw me (which rarely happens ). It is part of the
>game. I just choose not to throw, because I find it boring... just my opinion.
You're missing an aspect of your game then. Throwing after a missed
super or special IS easy, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. (See
above) A throw should be used to add to your offensive aresenal to
allow you to wake up the turtling players that block all you do until
you leave yourself open. It IS the way to crack the shell and let them
know you can't just sit there and block, or I will throw or tick/throw
you.
As Onaje used to say... only predictable people get thrown. It forces
your opponent to play a LESS boring LESS predictable game when you
make them wary of a throw option.
EC
Jokker
someone they can have mercy and then killing them on second round.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Because he knew that I thought we were not using throws. It's like telling
> someone they can have mercy and then killing them on second round.
Well I guess that's pretty screwed up... but still I don't suggest playing with
rules like that in the first place. I mean, if there's an option in the game to
turn off throws, it's alright, but fights can start over one measly accidental
throw. So it's better to just play for real.
Chocobo
> Because he knew that I thought we were not using throws. It's like telling
> someone they can have mercy and then killing them on second round.
>
How do you know what the other guy is thinking? You're psychic?
Shiranui Gen-An
Simply a word of advise for people who (ab)use throws... Be careful who you
do this to. Someone got shot and killed at an arcade around here (Atlanta
area) a few years back and I think it had something to do with throwing,
and I know fist fights have been started over ticks. I got mad enough to
fight someone who used ticks when he was losing, but I restrained myself.
Others in the same situation will not.
Chocobo
> Some guy said throws were 3%.. I had my doubts about that.
I've seen it happen in A3.
Chocobo
Damn. Atlanta has a LOT of morons.
Shiranui Gen-An
Fights have broken out over cheaps in other places besides Atl. I'm sure in Cali
someone pulled a cheap on one of those infamous gang members and got beat up for
it.
Lavander San
Is Cali really that bad? The worse that happened to me was getting into a
fight at game-express for using "fast" chars like wolvy and chun-li.
Basically the guy had a bad attitude to begin with... and i beat him 7 times
strait. I knew he was going to go over the top so I let him when the 8th
game. On my way out the door he had the nerve to say "Don't ever come back
here or else."
Yadda Yadda, I put my hand over my ear telling him I did not hear what he
said and to repeat it. He came in my face.. said it again... this time with
a push. I responded with a push, he punched me, I punched him. And walla...
next thing you know we were fighting over a game. The guy was bigger too
^_^. (Hate when that happens.) I still wound up delivering a kick in his
midsection that sent him reeling 8 feets backwards before we got split up.
Anybody else have stories about how they got into a fight over a video game?
Lavander-San....(Who lives in NYC)
JB Gainz <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000121211815...@ng-fw1.aol.com...
> I live in Cali and getting shot in arcades is nothing unusual. An arcade
in my
> town recently closed down, probably do to the violence by "gang members"
or
> more likely some random idiots with a gun.
Richard DeLauder
getting upset at someone who throws... if that is an issue AT ALL (even if
there was no physical violence, the thought of it is bad enough)... these
players are definately in the lower half of the rankings if i were to be
generous. Maybe if any of those people even had skills that would qualify
them to talk about throwing at all, i would maybe acknowledge their opinion
instead of wildly laughing at them like i am now.
When you deal with people that aren't really students of SF, you get all
sorts of strange backwards logic (regarding blocking, throwing, combos,
supers, 360's, just about anything). Whether they restrain themselves is
not an issue, the fact that they are bothered/embarassed/fustrated about
these things shows me they have a serious mental problem that needs to be
looked at before they should put their quarter/token in.
Rich
"Chocobo" <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:38890C12...@mindspring.com...
Luis Ramirez
KikkoBoy01 wrote:
> True I avoid throws in fear of my life... some folks take these gamings too
> seriously... especially if the guy hovers over me.... but do what I do... for
> every throw he throws you, you are equal to that throw back
The thing is, I can't even stand the "honorable" fighter who is polite and nice
to you and even apologizes if he throws you. There is nothing cheap about
throws. They are avoidable and their damage is not crippling. You can even
tech. out of them. Give me a break.
For some characters, its a vital part of their strategy. Their normals and
specials may suck so bad that all they can do is attack you when you whiff a
move or grab and throw you. There's nothing bad about throws!!!!!
Luis.
JB Gainz
Jbalsle99 wrote:
>"JB Gainz" <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20000121004900...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
>> >Well, MvC may be a bad example, as it's actually quite easy to throw
>> >someone in that game, IMO. But in general, throwing takes skill.
>>
>> Wait for oponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them. Not much
>skill
>> needed.
>>
>> My
>> >advice: Throw the bastards 15 ways from Sunday until they get used to
>> >it.
>>
>> Depends on what you want. Personally, I don't throw because I don't feel
>the
>> need to. It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move. If I am having
>> trouble in a match then I might feel the urge to throw.
>
>This is pretty messed up.
>
>"Wait for an opponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them."? Gee,
>most
>Light and Medium attacks take so little time to come out that you can't get
>to
>them before they recover. Heavy attacks may give you that window, but the
>whole
>point of any fighting game is trying to find a weakness in their defense and
>exploit it. Even then, you can't usually walk up on a character after a
>heavy attack
>and expect to get an onopposed throw.
LOL, who would even think of this? I was talking about moves with real
recovery time like supers and specials
That leaves special maneuvers and
>super arts.
>Whiff a Dragon Punch near me, and you deserve to be thrown. Whiff a
>Shoryureppa,
>and expect to get your ass tossed. If you bitch about it, I simply ignore
>you and/or
>call you a Fool.
Ah... what the heck? I agree with you. No need to be an ass about it. Jabs
and Shorts are not even the types of attacks I was talking about. It is very
strange you even assumed that.
>"It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move."? Dude, you have to wade
>into their
>offense, getting right on top of them, before you can toss them. And if you
>can throw
>them, good bet is they can throw you.
Okay.. I have to disagree with you hear. If you trying this hard to throw your
opponent chances are another type of attack is a better choice of action. I
only throw when the attempt is obvious... like when I have no super meter and
an opponent is open.
Even if you do throw them, they can
>still reduce
>the damage with a tech, or roll right back atcha after the throw (roll up to
>throw after
>being thrown).
Still, a throw is a throw, tech or not. What is the point of you talking about
tech?
>Ignore throws, and it becomes a super fest and/or a chipfest
>(don't know
>about you, but many of the people I play against like to do something called
>blocking...)
ah huh... you are getting very odd now. I think this is suppose to be an
insult suggesting I do not block... hmmm. For some reason I'm not hurt.
>Since I just met you and all, I'm going to keep civil about this. ]
You use civil loosely I guess. You threatened to call me a fool and claimed I
was bitching about throws. You are quite the diplomat.
But you
>do need to do
>some serious thinking. Throwing has been in every Street Fighter game since
>SF2: Clasic
>(hell, it may have even been in SF1!) If it wasn't supposed to be there,
>then Capcom
>would have taken it out.
Nice fluff, but totally pointless. Let's stay on topic.
> They didn't. Therefor, it's there for a reason.
>Not using
>throws means you should go play something like Killer Instinct, and look how
>good THAT
>did.
Never really got into KI.. but thank you. Still, you never proved you point of
claiming throws require more skill than basically "throwing your opponent
after a mistake". I'm sorry if me not using throws pisses you off so much. I
have nothing against them.
How about this... I'll perform a throw now and then just for you. :-)
JB Gainz
>they
>now take 2 buttons to do?
EX and MvC... nuff said. Throws take off probably closer to 10%. And you
really can't go by percent damage, because different machines have different
settings.
.
.
>And some throws will miss because you're TOO CLOSE?!
> (See Choc's A3 stuff. Add in Vega walking up to/pushing a dizzy character,
>then throwing. It will occassionally whiff)
>I think throws were weakened way too damn much lately.
You are basing a lot of your throw facts on A3. Everyone knows that game is
full of bugs and is not a good basic to represent all Capcom games.
The rest of your post was very informative and I agree with a lot of it.
.
.
..
JB Gainz
>super or special IS easy, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. (See
>above) A throw should be used to add to your offensive aresenal to
Exactly, which is why I don't throw in those cases.
> A throw should be used to add to your offensive aresenal to
>allow you to wake up the turtling players that block all you do until
>you leave yourself open. It IS the way to crack the shell and let them
>know you can't just sit there and block, or I will throw or tick/throw
>you.
Yeah, but this offence only works well with quicker characters, because of the
push back effect of missed ground combos and push blocks. I used to do this
offence, but my arcade regulars unfortunately have a no throwing rule for those
who actually know how to play, so I've learned not to use throws.. I just don't
need them. I won't win in tournements with this attitude, but I just don't
care if I'm playing for fun.
.
.
JB Gainz
>current what, 8-15% (SF Alpha series and so on)
>Throwing is cheap but hey this is war and anything and everything goes in
>WAR!
Some guy said throws were 3%.. I had my doubts about that.
Viscant
>>current what, 8-15% (SF Alpha series and so on)
>>Throwing is cheap but hey this is war and anything and everything goes in
>>WAR!
>
>Some guy said throws were 3%.. I had my doubts about that.
A3 throws depend mostly on what ism you're in. Like X-Adon's throws will do
good damage (I think that one can get up to around 20% on normal), whereas
V-Zangief's SPD does around 10%, with most Vcharacters normal throws doing
around 5%.
In 3s, on normal damage some throws will do absolutely nothing at all. Like
Oro's choke hold when it only does 2 hits will do probably less than 3% (but he
usually averages 3-5 hits, so he can usually get 3%). Most chokes and holds do
just about nothing besides Hugo's choke and Dudley's stomach pump. IIRC, Elena
does next to nothing with her leg toss and everyone else is only a little
better. All in all, throws in 3s average out to around 4-7% on normal, which
is damn pitiful if you ask me. I can see that the Three series has been trying
to weaken throws in other ways too, like by adding in the Denjin and making
overheads quicker, so I can vaguely understand where they're going here.
Still, the fact that in games like A2, throw damage was far too minimal
considering the damage CCs and supers did. Same with A3, especially because
V-characters are all you see. If X and A characters stacked up a little
better, my beef here would be non-existant, but since A3 is a V-ism only game,
it's really irrelevant what happens in other isms. (Well, besides
Chun/Rolento, and their throws are good! It's just the other 30 someodd
characters that get jobbed.)
The EX series gets it right, and so did XSF (damage was not the main problem
with throws). MSF was too selective in it's throw damage (Dan and
Dhalsim--kick throw--did great damage, everyone else got jobbed), and MvC is
pitiful. The only character who can really make throws a primary form of
offense, due to damage, is Wolverine, because you can mash that throw up to
around 15% on normal damage. An advantage that I can see the character as
deserving, but still I've always thought aside from grapplers throw damage
should be consistent.
JB Gainz
>Cali
>someone pulled a cheap on one of those infamous gang members and got beat up
>for
>it.
I live in Cali and getting shot in arcades is nothing unusual. An arcade in my
town recently closed down, probably do to the violence by "gang members" or
more likely some random idiots with a gun.
.
JB Gainz
I try to avoid fights in arcades.. on account of the chance of getting shot. I
can take a punch or kick, but I don't think I've built the endurance for a
bullet... yet
j/k
KikkoBoy01
Kakarot007
>I live in Cali and getting shot in arcades is nothing unusual. An arcade in
>my
>town recently closed down, probably do to the violence by "gang members" or
>more likely some random idiots with a gun.
>
>
Nothing unusual? Are you saying that people getting shot in your arcades is a
regular occurance?!? I also live in Cali (Northern, I'm assuming your
reffering to Southern, I believe Northern is a bit tamer), but it can't be that
bad. There might have been an isolated incident or something, but people
getting shot in the arcade is not considered "unusual" to you? I don't know
what I'll do when I go to the arcade and honestly won't be surprised if I get
shot while playing some SF. It just blows my mind that people getting shot in
your arcade is just viewed as par for the course. (I'm really laughing like
crazy right now, just imagining you going to the arcade, wondering if your
gonna get shot today, and if not, wondering who's turn it is. Just thinking
that "Somebody's going to die today, wonder who?").
Zilla
Professer Revolution
>So do you guys regard throws as cheap? >Or do they require skills???
I love throws^_^
Granted I play more 3D fighters, but I usually use the bigger guys that rely on
their throws(Jeffry/Wolf from VF, King in Tekken, Astaroth in SC) so that
reliance on throws usually seeps into my 2D fighting, that and the fact I use
the 'Giefster in any game I can^_~
In MvC you're at such a disadvantage most of the time if you try to throw it
shouldn't be considered "cheap" at all, and for the A series throws usually
don't do enough damage to spend the time and energy on throw trapping for most
characters. And I've been using Hugo in my limited exposure of 3s so that shows
you my proficiency in that game. =P
One of the best times I've ever had playing A3 was when I faced another
throw-loving player. Each round would start off normally, but after the first
throw occured we would try to one-up each other on throwing. I used Gen and
Karin alot and he used Ken and Adon...I honestly feel I played my best games of
A3 that day, all thanks to throwing.
So basically: Throw=good, for me.
===============+++++++==============
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JB Gainz
>a
>regular occurance?!? I also live in Cali (Northern, I'm assuming your
>reffering to Southern, I believe Northern is a bit tamer), but it can't be
>that
>bad.
Of course I'm talking about Southern. Northern Cal is ( excuse my languange )
PUSSY-VILLE. I'm from the North and was extremely surprised at the excessive
violence of southern Cal.. especially L.A. yikes. I do wish to move back to
North one day. Better surrounded by pussies than thugs... I'll probably live
longer.
> There might have been an isolated incident or something, but people
>getting shot in the arcade is not considered "unusual" to you?
Sadly, no. I live in a pretty large city and killing unfortunately is not a
big surprise. When I first moved to my city where I live now, the arcade
across from my apartment had an incident of a kid getting shot. I've seen
plently of assholes arguing and even some fist fights at the place, so someone
getting shot would not surprise me at all.
I don't know
>what I'll do when I go to the arcade and honestly won't be surprised if I get
>shot while playing some SF. It just blows my mind that people getting shot
>in
>your arcade is just viewed as par for the course.
Hey, hey... it is not MY arcade. There are many arcades in my town. Perhaps
in your home town there are only a few arcades but my town has at least 5..
make that at least 4. I moved far away from that crime ring a long time ago.
The last time I went their at night I got questioned for looking conspicuous..
damn PIGS ( but that's another story ).
(I'm really laughing like
>crazy right now, just imagining you going to the arcade, wondering if your
>gonna get shot today, and if not, wondering who's turn it is. Just thinking
>that "Somebody's going to die today, wonder who?").
I stayed far away from situations getting me in trouble.. which meant the XvSF
machine at that time. When police took more control of the place I think I
visited the arcade once again.. and then I was bothered by the police and never
went back. There was another not as up to date arcade closer to my house, that
I go to present day.
>
>Zilla
>
>
..
Shiranui Gen-An
Richard DeLauder wrote:
> I 2nd that, I think it takes a really shortsighted mind to even consider
> getting upset at someone who throws... if that is an issue AT ALL (even if
> there was no physical violence, the thought of it is bad enough)... these
> players are definately in the lower half of the rankings if i were to be
> generous. Maybe if any of those people even had skills that would qualify
> them to talk about throwing at all, i would maybe acknowledge their opinion
> instead of wildly laughing at them like i am now.
>
> When you deal with people that aren't really students of SF, you get all
> sorts of strange backwards logic (regarding blocking, throwing, combos,
> supers, 360's, just about anything). Whether they restrain themselves is
> not an issue, the fact that they are bothered/embarassed/fustrated about
> these things shows me they have a serious mental problem that needs to be
> looked at before they should put their quarter/token in.
That is the biggest bunch of elitist BS I have read yet on this group (and there
is a LOT). You have never played me to make any comment about my skill level.
I have been playing SF since '92, and while I am no expert, I am far from being
an unskilled player. I have no problem with throws; it's using ticks as a
constant method of attack or using them to get a comeback when the punk would
have lost otherwise that angered me. That was back in the Super SF days, when
throws still took off 20-25% damage. And as Sean Gilley mentioned in a previous
post, around here there was/still is a general "no tick" attitude and you expect
people to abide. I don't know where you get off saying I'm "shortsighted," "not
really a student of SF," or "have a serious mental problem" just because I get
upset at what I consider to be a dirty way of winning but you need to take that
elitist attitude somewhere else, jackass.
Unknown
>>You're missing an aspect of your game then. Throwing after a missed
>>super or special IS easy, but you shouldn't be doing that anyway. (See
>>above) A throw should be used to add to your offensive aresenal to
>
>Exactly, which is why I don't throw in those cases.
>
>> A throw should be used to add to your offensive aresenal to
>>allow you to wake up the turtling players that block all you do until
>>you leave yourself open. It IS the way to crack the shell and let them
>>know you can't just sit there and block, or I will throw or tick/throw
>>you.
>
>Yeah, but this offence only works well with quicker characters, because of the
>push back effect of missed ground combos and push blocks. I used to do this
Huh? Try a low short tick into SPD with Zan. Works right? Not exactly
a quick character...
How about a jump-in with Ryu that gets blocked, instead of trying to
combo (if all your opponent does is block), pause a half a sec and
throw. Hmm... now you opponent can't just wait for you to attack,
because blocking doesn't stop a throw.
>offence, but my arcade regulars unfortunately have a no throwing rule for those
>who actually know how to play, so I've learned not to use throws.. I just don't
Heh. Those who actually know how to play WILL use throws and not be
afraid of them. I mean really there is no great damage reward for the
throw here ('cept maybe a few like Zan's strong throw into triple
option..) it just broadens the game and makes it more interesting.
>need them. I won't win in tournements with this attitude, but I just don't
>care if I'm playing for fun.
>.
If you are just playing for fun, and don't care about playing the game
as it was created OR even maximizing your own skill in the game, why
bother with a newsgroup like this?
Really its like Chess with no knights. Its just not real chess without
it, and SF and VS games aren't played the way they are intended to be
with "no throw" rules. I mean really, NYC, once a bastion of the
no-throw school, throws all the damn time. Get with the program, its
the 00's.
E
>.
>" I'll kick Zangief's ass" - King of Tekken Tag Tournament
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Chocobo
> Richard DeLauder wrote:
>
> > I 2nd that, I think it takes a really shortsighted mind to even consider
> > getting upset at someone who throws... if that is an issue AT ALL (even if
> > there was no physical violence, the thought of it is bad enough)... these
> > players are definately in the lower half of the rankings if i were to be
> > generous. Maybe if any of those people even had skills that would qualify
> > them to talk about throwing at all, i would maybe acknowledge their opinion
> > instead of wildly laughing at them like i am now.
> >
> > When you deal with people that aren't really students of SF, you get all
> > sorts of strange backwards logic (regarding blocking, throwing, combos,
> > supers, 360's, just about anything). Whether they restrain themselves is
> > not an issue, the fact that they are bothered/embarassed/fustrated about
> > these things shows me they have a serious mental problem that needs to be
> > looked at before they should put their quarter/token in.
>
> That is the biggest bunch of elitist BS I have read yet on this group (and there
> is a LOT). You have never played me to make any comment about my skill level.
If you think throws are bad or cheap at all, that defines your skill level. He's not
BSing at all. Throws are just another move, like DPs or low roundhouse or standing
strong.
>
> I have been playing SF since '92, and while I am no expert, I am far from being
> an unskilled player. I have no problem with throws; it's using ticks as a
> constant method of attack or using them to get a comeback when the punk would
> have lost otherwise that angered me. That was back in the Super SF days, when
> throws still took off 20-25% damage. And as Sean Gilley mentioned in a previous
> post, around here there was/still is a general "no tick" attitude and you expect
> people to abide. I don't know where you get off saying I'm "shortsighted," "not
> really a student of SF," or "have a serious mental problem" just because I get
> upset at what I consider to be a dirty way of winning but you need to take that
> elitist attitude somewhere else, jackass.
What's wrong with throws? Is it all just because you can't block them?
Now, I know you aren't one of those absolute no-throw enforcers, I'm not trying to
be really insulting here or anything. On a side note- some of these other posts are
just sad... fights over throws in an SF game... not only that, but people getting
shot? How fucking pathetic are these braindead idiots who would physically harm
someone over a GAME? A game that doesn't even have money bet on it?
JB Gainz
>>Yeah, but this offence only works well with quicker characters, because of
>the
>>push back effect of missed ground combos and push blocks. I used to do this
>
>Huh? Try a low short tick into SPD with Zan. Works right? Not exactly
>a quick character...
>How about a jump-in with Ryu that gets blocked, instead of trying to
>combo (if all your opponent does is block), pause a half a sec and
>throw. Hmm... now you opponent can't just wait for you to attack,
>because blocking doesn't stop a throw.
I've never been jump attacked by a Zangief player in MvC, so I can't say this
as reasonable. This works on SF. Also, the SPD is a special move which means
it works only in Geif's special case. Most characters have to be touching the
opponent to throw them so Geif's SPD is not even in the Throw Discussion..
though your strategy is valid. I use it all the time in SF EX games. And all
your arguments are jumps in.. I'm talking about attacking from the ground.
Your Ryu strategy is okay, but I would rather use an overhead. Waiting a
second is too risky.
.
.
.>eh. Those who actually know how to play WILL use throws and not be
>afraid of them
Your opinion... I respect it.
>If you are just playing for fun, and don't care about playing the game
>as it was created OR even maximizing your own skill in the game, why
>bother with a newsgroup like this?
Now, you are being just plain scary. It's just a game pal.
>Really its like Chess with no knights.
Ohhh. Comparing a fighting game game to chess. Ouch.
> Its just not real chess without
>it, and SF and VS games aren't played the way they are intended to be
>with "no throw" rules. I mean really, NYC, once a bastion of the
>no-throw school, throws all the damn time. Get with the program, its
>the 00's.
00's huh... so I assume 2000 is the "year of the throws" in your country? LOL
Shiranui Gen-An
Chocobo wrote:
> If you think throws are bad or cheap at all, that defines your skill level.
Says who? You? Who are you to make such an absolute statement about what defines a
person's skill level?
> He's not BSing at all. Throws are just another move, like DPs or low roundhouse or
> standing
> strong.
Note that I was talking about TICKING, not just throwing. If I whiff a Fierce DP I
deserve to get thrown. If' I'm turtling the whole round I deserve to get thrown. But I
see no need in ticking an opponent who's putting up a good fight or to finish off a
weakened opponent as an easy way to win. And to tick the rest of a match to play
catch-up when you've been getting your butt kicked the whole round is just wrong.
> What's wrong with throws? Is it all just because you can't block them?
I have really liked the idea of a high-damage attack that you can't block. But as I
said, that was back in the SF2 days when getting thrown really hurt. Nowadays I'd
rather be thrown than eat a 40% damage combo.
> Now, I know you aren't one of those absolute no-throw enforcers, I'm not trying to
> be really insulting here or anything. On a side note- some of these other posts are
> just sad... fights over throws in an SF game... not only that, but people getting
> shot? How fucking pathetic are these braindead idiots who would physically harm
> someone over a GAME? A game that doesn't even have money bet on it?
I think betting had something to do with the murder. The sad part is the arcade shut
down shortly after the shooting. I guess people got scared or something. Don't talk
trash, bet, or cheap all round and you should be fine, save for people who just can't
stand losing at all no matter how you defeat them.
Chocobo
> Chocobo wrote:
>
> > If you think throws are bad or cheap at all, that defines your skill level.
>
> Says who? You? Who are you to make such an absolute statement about what defines a
> person's skill level?
Says me, and everyone who knows anything. What you are doing is like going "Who says field
goals are necessary to win? I think they're cheap and my football team doesn't use them. Who
can tell me I suck because I don't use them?" Throws are a vital part of the game.
>
> > He's not BSing at all. Throws are just another move, like DPs or low roundhouse or
> > standing
> > strong.
>
> Note that I was talking about TICKING, not just throwing.
It doesn't really matter. Either one.
> But I
> see no need in ticking an opponent who's putting up a good fight or to finish off a
> weakened opponent as an easy way to win.
Why is it an easy way to win? The answer is because you're letting it be easy. Are you
against using powerful VCs in A3 because they're an easy way to win?
> And to tick the rest of a match to play
> catch-up when you've been getting your butt kicked the whole round is just wrong.
Why? What's wrong about it?
> > Now, I know you aren't one of those absolute no-throw enforcers, I'm not trying to
> > be really insulting here or anything. On a side note- some of these other posts are
> > just sad... fights over throws in an SF game... not only that, but people getting
> > shot? How fucking pathetic are these braindead idiots who would physically harm
> > someone over a GAME? A game that doesn't even have money bet on it?
>
> I think betting had something to do with the murder.
Oh. I guess that ought to be a little bit better, but it really isn't.
> The sad part is the arcade shut
> down shortly after the shooting. I guess people got scared or something. Don't talk
> trash, bet, or cheap all round and you should be fine, save for people who just can't
> stand losing at all no matter how you defeat them.
I wouldn't go to an arcade where people get shot, myself... I can understand that. I am sure
that if you don't run your mouth then no one will do anything worse than whine at you.
Shiranui Gen-An
Here's an idea. Why don't the people who don't really like ticking and the people who see no
problem with it not play each other or argue with each other about how the other's viewpoint is
wrong. Everyone wins.
Kazumi Jin
)
PUSSY-VILLE.>>
Ive tried so hard to ignore you. When are you coming up here JB? Name the
Time and Place. PLEASE
I dont think anyone has anything to fear against someone with the mental
dexterity who thinks Spiderman is a RIP-OFF of Scorpion....among other things.
Hey whats that over there???
Huhhhh (looks) what....
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Until the two camps play each other, then the no tickers get WORKED
--
Shaun P. McIsaac "You know how Princeton has that Center for Advanced
(773) 834 - 6508 Studies? I want a Center for Basic Studies; you know,
Team U of C what *is* the best way to tie a shoelace?" - M.A.H.
Jeremy Balsley
Read further down, and you see I am trying to cover all basis. Yes, in some
games, if you are quick on the draw, you can even dash in after a heavy
attack
to make your throw...
>
>
> That leaves special maneuvers and
> >super arts.
> >Whiff a Dragon Punch near me, and you deserve to be thrown. Whiff a
> >Shoryureppa,
> >and expect to get your ass tossed. If you bitch about it, I simply
ignore
> >you and/or
> >call you a Fool.
>
> Ah... what the heck? I agree with you. No need to be an ass about it.
Jabs
> and Shorts are not even the types of attacks I was talking about. It is
very
> strange you even assumed that.
Call me thorough...
>
> >"It takes off a lot of damage for an easy move."? Dude, you have to wade
> >into their
> >offense, getting right on top of them, before you can toss them. And if
you
> >can throw
> >them, good bet is they can throw you.
>
> Okay.. I have to disagree with you hear. If you trying this hard to throw
your
> opponent chances are another type of attack is a better choice of action.
I
> only throw when the attempt is obvious... like when I have no super meter
and
> an opponent is open.
>
Ah, but if you have the option to throw, then that's one thing more that the
defender has to worry about. Yes, a throw-only game is as bad as a
throwless
game, in my opinion. Add in throwing on top of a solid melee technique, and
you
become a more dangerous foe.
>
>
> Even if you do throw them, they can
> >still reduce
> >the damage with a tech, or roll right back atcha after the throw (roll up
to
> >throw after
> >being thrown).
>
> Still, a throw is a throw, tech or not. What is the point of you talking
about
> tech?
>
It's all about options. The more you have, the more dangerous you are.
> >Ignore throws, and it becomes a super fest and/or a chipfest
> >(don't know
> >about you, but many of the people I play against like to do something
called
> >blocking...)
>
> ah huh... you are getting very odd now. I think this is suppose to be an
> insult suggesting I do not block... hmmm. For some reason I'm not hurt.
>
Didn't mean for you to be...in fact, I was refering to your competition as
much as
I was refering to you. Guarding is an absolute defense against basic
attacks (over-
heads notwithstanding, mainly because you can see 'em coming from a mile
away), and
a solid defense against advanced techniques. Add in parrying (SF3) or
Dodging (KOF),
and you get an even more solid defense. Put in throws, then that's one more
thing
you have to defend against, which oddly can't be defended in the same way as
the rest
of your gameplay...
> >Since I just met you and all, I'm going to keep civil about this. ]
>
> You use civil loosely I guess. You threatened to call me a fool and
claimed I
> was bitching about throws. You are quite the diplomat.
Perhaps some clear reading is in order. Plus, being called a fool for
complaining
about being thrown after you let loose a move like a shoryureppa when I was
prepared
to defend against it isn't something you can really get upset about...you
would have
it coming.
>
> But you
> >do need to do
> >some serious thinking. Throwing has been in every Street Fighter game
since
> >SF2: Clasic
> >(hell, it may have even been in SF1!) If it wasn't supposed to be there,
> >then Capcom
> >would have taken it out.
>
> Nice fluff, but totally pointless. Let's stay on topic.
>
Funny. I thought the topic was validity of throws...specifically is it
cheap to employ
them.
> > They didn't. Therefor, it's there for a reason.
> >Not using
> >throws means you should go play something like Killer Instinct, and look
how
> >good THAT
> >did.
>
> Never really got into KI.. but thank you. Still, you never proved you
point of
> claiming throws require more skill than basically "throwing your opponent
> after a mistake". I'm sorry if me not using throws pisses you off so
much. I
> have nothing against them.
YOU not using throws doesn't concern me. The whole 'Throwing is scrubby'
arguement
does. The whole arguement that 'Throws are too easy and hurt too much'
concerns me
greatly. In fact, that last comment is a source for debate...if you don't
want to
debate it, don't post it in the first place.
There is a world of difference between: I don't throw because I don't like
to
throw, and I don't throw because it takes no skill and does too much damage.
One I
can't argue with. The other I can and will.
> How about this... I'll perform a throw now and then just for you. :-)
Whatever floats your boat...
(Boards submarine and loads up torpedoes.)
..or sinks it, as the case may be.
> .
> .
> .
Ultima
> Some guy wrote:
> >>Yeah, but this offence only works well with quicker characters, because of the push back effect of missed ground combos and push blocks. I used to do this
> >Huh? Try a low short tick into SPD with Zan. Works right? Not exactly
> >a quick character... How about a jump-in with Ryu that gets blocked, instead of trying to combo (if all your opponent does is block), pause a half a sec and throw. Hmm... now you opponent can't just wait for you to attack, because blocking doesn't stop a throw.
> I've never been jump attacked by a Zangief player in MvC, so I can't say this as reasonable.
Well, MvC isn't really much of a good tick game for Z (not for SPD
anyway unless you're facing HUlk). Try any other game, especially EX,
where Z's SPD is down-right scrubby. Z in MvC instead will jump in, do
nothing,and strong throw when he lands.
> This works on SF. Also, the SPD is a special move which means
> it works only in Geif's special case. Most characters have to be touching the opponent to throw them so Geif's SPD is not even in the Throw Discussion..
That doesn't stop the more anal anti-throwers (there are still many
left, I'm sure) from whining about it and other special grabs. And the
range from which you throw really depends entirely on the game -
sometimes it's right up on touching the opponent, somesimtes it's a step
away.
> though your strategy is valid. I use it all the time in SF EX games. And all your arguments are jumps in.. I'm talking about attacking from the ground. Your Ryu strategy is okay, but I would rather use an overhead. Waiting a second is too risky.
In EX? You need to stick out something when you jump-in or else you are
going to get reverse-thrown when you land. So you jump-in, do a low
short, wait a half-second to see if they do anything. then step forward
and throw.
> .>eh. Those who actually know how to play WILL use throws and not be
> >afraid of them
> Your opinion... I respect it.
An opinion shared by virtually top-level players, I might add. Even if a
top level player doesn't like throws, they at least know of ways around
them (if possible) and don't complain that the throwing players should
not throw.
> >If you are just playing for fun, and don't care about playing the game as it was created OR even maximizing your own skill in the game, why bother with a newsgroup like this?
>
> Now, you are being just plain scary. It's just a game pal.
This newsgroup (theoretically anyway) is for people to try and broaden
their knowledge and get better at the games discussed. Arguments like
"it's just a game" are irrelevent in this regard (unless you start doing
really stupid things, like shooting people over games). Anyone who
doesn't use throws will NEVER be as good as the players who use them
(assuming all other factors equal). It's as simple as that.
> >Really its like Chess with no knights.
> Ohhh. Comparing a fighting game game to chess. Ouch.
SF (even it's heart, though it's harder to tell with the news games
filled with BS) is very chess-like. Get over it.
> > Its just not real chess without it, and SF and VS games aren't played the way they are intended to be with "no throw" rules. I mean really, NYC, once a bastion of the no-throw school, throws all the damn time. Get with the program, its the 00's.
> 00's huh... so I assume 2000 is the "year of the throws" in your country? LOL
Foolish child. What he means is that anyone who still sticks to "no
throws" is stuck in archaic, scrub-infested thinking. And thankfully,
NYC has evolved from this stage.
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"How do you "perfect" gameplay? That's like saying music has
been "perfected" over thousands of years. Fun is a matter of
taste." - Jeff Williams 25/10/99
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Shiranui Gen-An
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> Until the two camps play each other, then the no tickers get WORKED
Did you read my post? I said the two camps SHOULDN'T play each other. Safer for
everyone that way.
Shiranui Gen-An
RDM1976 wrote:
> Well, I guess I'll play devil's advocate. I don't like throwing. Well, let me
> rephrase. I don't like constant throwing. It's not that I think it's cheap,
> but it is damn annoying. And people abuse it a helluva lot. Throws should
> either be harder to execute or you should have a limited number of throws you
> can do in a match. I play games at the arcade for fun and when someone throws
> constantly it takes all the fun out of the game no matter if I win or lose.
> However, if the situation is that I have alot of power and my opponent has
> little, well I can understand why they'd start with the throwing. Anyway, if I
> play someone who throws alot then I'll just remember who it was and not play
> them if I see them again. If I'm gonna pay 50 cents to play, I'm gonna enjoy
> it damn it. :o)
My sentiments exactly, except for the part about understanding someone who's losing
and starts throwing to try to comeback. Sometimes you just have to take your loss
like a good sport. Anyway, the whole throwing issue *isn't* an issue when I play
with people I know; we kind of have an understanding about using constant ticking.
And you know what? We have *fun* that way.
KikkoBoy01
friends kid. He was like 8.... and he kept throwing me on SF2A on
Playstation.... so I simply Dragon Punch his ass until he cried.... heh heh
heh!!!
JB Gainz
>damn time. Get with the program, its the 00's.
>What he means is that anyone who still sticks to "no
>throws" is stuck in archaic, scrub-infested thinking.
Not using throws makes a person a scrub? Thanks for the info Ultima. You are
always full of useful facts and you present your vast knowledge in such a
diplomatic way everytime.
If it wasn't for you, I would not have known I was a troll, because I shared my
opinions without flaming the person I disagreed with. Thanks to your trolls in
response I now know to change my ways.
>SF (even it's heart, though it's harder to tell with the news games
>filled with BS) is very chess-like. Get over it.
Only a hardcore fan of a video game would compare it to chess, unless it is
actually a chess video game of course. Bobby Fisher would cringe if read that
post.
.
.
.
JB Gainz
>arguement
>does.
Never said this. Let's not put words in each others mouths.
> The whole arguement that 'Throws are too easy and hurt too much'
>concerns me
>greatly
I Feel touched you are so concerned about the way I play SF. :-)
> I don't throw because I don't like
>to
>throw, and I don't throw because it takes no skill and does too much damage.
Once again.. putting words in my mouth.. never said throws are skilless. I
just don't think there is as much skill needed as was claimed by someone.. or
was it you?
>> How about this... I'll perform a throw now and then just for you. :-)
>
>Whatever floats your boat...
>
In that case nevermind.. hehe
JB Gainz
>Time and Place. PLEASE
>
Buddy, trust me you wouldn't want to meet me I will let you know the next time
I go up, seriously. When you see me, then decide if you actually want to try
me. I'll even let you have first shot.
>Spiderman is a RIP-OFF of Scorpion....among other things.
Ah.. another lovely misquote. I said Spider-mans web throw is very similar to
scorpions attack. Several board members were listing games SF ripped off. Get
over it.. it was just one idea. I admit it was a stretch, but for you to want
to kick my ass for typing it.. what does that say about your mental dexterity?
If you don't think Northern California is extremely tame, then you need to move
down south for a couple of years.
.
.
.
Chocobo
So everyone in an arcade should pick up a "Thrower" or "Non-thrower" badge to wear
around so it doesn't happen by accident?
Chocobo
> > I mean really, NYC, once a bastion of the no-throw school, throws all the
> >damn time. Get with the program, its the 00's.
>
> >What he means is that anyone who still sticks to "no
> >throws" is stuck in archaic, scrub-infested thinking.
>
> Not using throws makes a person a scrub? Thanks for the info Ultima. You are
> always full of useful facts and you present your vast knowledge in such a
> diplomatic way everytime.
Well, he IS right.
> >SF (even it's heart, though it's harder to tell with the news games
> >filled with BS) is very chess-like. Get over it.
>
> Only a hardcore fan of a video game would compare it to chess, unless it is
> actually a chess video game of course. Bobby Fisher would cringe if read that
> post.
What's with with comparing it to chess? No one is saying it's exactly like chess,
or that it's anywhere near as complicated as chess... just that it shares a few
characteristics. There's nothing wrong with that.
Shiranui Gen-An
Chocobo wrote:
> So everyone in an arcade should pick up a "Thrower" or "Non-thrower" badge to wear
> around so it doesn't happen by accident?
Well, if you're in an area where throws could be hazardous to your health, it'd
probably be best not to use them. You could always watch the people who are playing to
see whether or not they like to tick. I generally won't bother to play a throw-happy
player, even if I think I can beat him. I just don't respect players like that.
Andrew Christopher Ward
if someone is making a major comeback against you with tick throws then
you are doing something seriously wrong.
here is a very simple example:
suppose you are playing ryu.
they do a jump short, then throw. you get annoyed. why do they have to
resort to such a tactic that is so hard to counter?
suppose i am playing ryu.
they do a jump short, then throw. i kick myself in the rear for not
dragon punching the jumping short. because i know i could have easily
avoided the tick altogether simply by countering the tick. so what I got
was what I deserved.
suppose i'm playing chunli.
i get swept in the corner. expecting a low short, i block, and the
opponent simply throws me as i sit there. still in the corner. he does a
low short, then throws. ouch. I'm thinking to myself "oh geez, i'm
getting worked in the corner like a 2 dollar whore." 5 seconds later,
still trying to fight my way out of the corner, i eat another sweep. here
it comes, low jab, then...
i bust out a level 2 kick super (which is safe) and for a paused second
you can see him trying to throw before the super makes up all the damage i
took from being thrown, and then some.
tick throws, like any other tactic, are counterable on many
levels. example 1 shows how you can avoid being tick thrown by keeping
your opponent off you. by poking with low forward, or fireballs, or
antiairing the jumpins, etc. this is the least risky method of doing
so. example 2: you can also directly counter them with
reversals. if they anticipate your reversal you might be in for a world
of hurt.. makign this a more risky method..they pretend to go for a tick
then block and you end up eating much, much more damage from a combo than
the throw would have done. this is part of what makes sf the game it
is. being knocked on your back sets you up for more damage than if you
are standing there at the ready facing your opponent head on. thank god
for tick throws or this would be a pretty boring game.
one last thing. if you really think a tick throw is coming then just jam
on your own throw. you get a tech. hit at worst, or your own throw at
best. in the old school games, such as hyper fighting, from what i
understand you can reverse all throw ticks. iow if you block a low short
and they are goign to throw you, if you have perfect timing you can always
throw them first. ST's tech hit is basically a "sloppy" throw reversal.
with so many ways to counter tick throws (and this isn't even counting
custom combos, which especially in a2 can devastate throwers), it's fairly
obvious that you are doing something wrong if you let people beat you with
them like you described.
it's not elitism.. it's just common sense.
Kazumi Jin
to
scorpions attack. Several board members were listing games SF ripped off. Get
over it.. it was just one idea. I admit it was a stretch, but for you to want
to kick my ass for typing it.. what does that say about your mental
dexterity?>>
Misquote..sure...If only Deja would let me find your original....and no I want
to kick your ass for everyone on this NG. Possibly break your hand so you have
no excuse to say anything on here anymore.
<<If you don't think Northern California is extremely tame, then you need to
move
down south for a couple of years.>>
Great so I can deal with the Morons that shoot ppl cause they throw. It almost
sounds like your proud of the crime down there. "Back up or will shoot you".
That why were Pussyville? Cause we dont shoot eveyone? At least we dont have
to worry bout these moronic seeds from spreading.
BTW hows it feel to have a flame named after you? JB-whatever.......hahahah
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
<shiran...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Well, if you're in an area where throws could be hazardous to your health, it'd
>probably be best not to use them. You could always watch the people who are playing to
>see whether or not they like to tick. I generally won't bother to play a throw-happy
>player, even if I think I can beat him. I just don't respect players like that.
Exactly. Why waste time with non-throwing scrub fools with weaponry?
They won't make you any better at the game, and they're not fun to
play.
Shiranui Gen-An
"Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr." wrote:
> Exactly. Why waste time with non-throwing scrub fools with weaponry?
> They won't make you any better at the game, and they're not fun to
> play.
I never said I didn't use throws. And since when does *not* using throws make one a scrub?
You're making some pretty asinine statements here. I understand that certain characters
*have* to use throws as part of their overall strategy because they have little else but if
you have a character with a lethal aresnal like Ken, Ryu or Guile, characters that can win
using traps, foot games, etc. why would you need to throw? Especially if your opponent is
hopelessly overmatched, is being soundly beaten by you, and has no chance of coming back.
What's the point?
Unknown
>Some guy wrote:
>
>>>Yeah, but this offence only works well with quicker characters, because of
>>the
>>>push back effect of missed ground combos and push blocks. I used to do this
>>
>>Huh? Try a low short tick into SPD with Zan. Works right? Not exactly
>>a quick character...
>>How about a jump-in with Ryu that gets blocked, instead of trying to
>>combo (if all your opponent does is block), pause a half a sec and
>>throw. Hmm... now you opponent can't just wait for you to attack,
>>because blocking doesn't stop a throw.
>
>I've never been jump attacked by a Zangief player in MvC, so I can't say this
>as reasonable. This works on SF. Also, the SPD is a special move which means
>it works only in Geif's special case. Most characters have to be touching the
>opponent to throw them so Geif's SPD is not even in the Throw Discussion..
>though your strategy is valid. I use it all the time in SF EX games. And all
>your arguments are jumps in.. I'm talking about attacking from the ground.
>Your Ryu strategy is okay, but I would rather use an overhead. Waiting a
>second is too risky.
>.
If your opponent can't see Ryu's SLOW overhead coming and switch his
block to high, he's a scrub for other reasons than the no throw
mentality.
>.
>.>eh. Those who actually know how to play WILL use throws and not be
>>afraid of them
>
>Your opinion... I respect it.
>
>>If you are just playing for fun, and don't care about playing the game
>>as it was created OR even maximizing your own skill in the game, why
>>bother with a newsgroup like this?
>
>Now, you are being just plain scary. It's just a game pal.
>
Yeah, its just a throw in a game, pal. What's the big deal?
I'm just saying if you aren't going to enhance your game play by
enhancing your arsenal with a basic move like a throw, then the whole
discussions of strategy/combos etc., is just a waste of your time here
also. Why bother reading the newsgroup?
>>Really its like Chess with no knights.
>
>Ohhh. Comparing a fighting game game to chess. Ouch.
>
It's called an analogy. You understand?
SF is to SF - throws as Chess is to Chess without knights.
Doesn't mean SF is Chess.
But you DO see similarities in Chess in SF at high levels, right?
>> Its just not real chess without
>>it, and SF and VS games aren't played the way they are intended to be
>>with "no throw" rules. I mean really, NYC, once a bastion of the
>>no-throw school, throws all the damn time. Get with the program, its
>>the 00's.
>
>00's huh... so I assume 2000 is the "year of the throws" in your country? LOL
No it means, its time to wake up and recognize that (besides the fact
that Southern Cal and NYC are in the same country...) throws take
skill and should be part of your game. Without it, its Scrub-Fighter
not Street Fighter.
>" I'll kick Zangief's ass" - King of Tekken Tag Tournament
Jokker
> Well I guess that's pretty screwed up... but still I don't suggest playing with
> rules like that in the first place. I mean, if there's an option in the game to
> turn off throws, it's alright, but fights can start over one measly accidental
> throw. So it's better to just play for real.
Like I said "Usually I don't throw unless I have a reason to, for example: If I am
blocking a guys moves and he throws me, or if I was playing a guy who I knew used
throws."
"Chocobo" wrote:
> How do you know what the other guy is thinking? You're psychic?
>
You can speculate on what there thinking. Besides you can always tell when someone
knows that they just pulled off a cheap move. Of course this doesn't apply to all
people that play you but if an experienced player pulls off a move like that he knew
what he was doing.
whoa...@my-deja.com
would create such an uproar. After reading all of these posts, it seems
to me that throwing is generally accepted and used by most people, and
that only scrubs bitch about it (notice I said GENERALLY not ALWAYS. I
remember the original SF2 ticks which drove me batty, and I bitched
many a time...) What's funny is that people talk about playing the game
with "honor", and that's why they don't throw....but if you do it to
them, they shoot you! What honor! I'm so sick of this world, where
these pussies can simply buy a gun and they think they're "the shit." I
see it every day in my town, these little fucking wimps who like to
call themselves "thugs" and pretend that they're "tough mofos." Well if
I ever get into a fight with one of them, hand-to-hand, I guarantee you
I'LL be the one standing afterwards. And if they pull a gun on me? I
hope they have pretty good aim, because if they don't hit me with the
first shot, I'll have already punctured their windpipe and ended their
life...
Am I afraid to throw in fighting games? No. I've done it since the very
first day that SF2 was released in arcades (which I can still remember
clearly) and I'll continue to do it for the rest of my life. I will not
let ANYONE intimidate me. Believe me many have tried, and failed. In
the end they either just complained a whole lot, out loud, or tried to
insult me by calling me a no-skill scrub. Usually I just let it go...on
occasion I can't control myself and I say something back, but so far
that's as far as it's gone. Nobody has tried to attack me or shoot me
because of it (although a lot of people have talked shit but never came
through with it), and hopefully nobody ever will. After all, it IS only
a game, and it's not worth getting killed over, right? There are only
two reasons that you can possibly lose:
1.) Outside factors, like somebody is bugging you while you're playing,
or the controls are broken, etc.
or
2.) Your skills were inferior to the other player's. They used
infinites, throws, over-powered characters, combos, strategies,
whatever, to beat you, and you lost. Now GET OVER IT and either don't
play anymore if it makes you upset, or renew your conviction and try
again. You can't get better if you don't lose and learn from the losses.
Now if you lose because of #1, I can see why you'd be mad. You are then
justified to beat the fuck out of whoever was distracting and bothering
you, or you can give shit to the owner of the arcade for having a
broken game. But if the reason is #2, and you lose, and you bitch to
the other player about it, FUCK YOU. You are a loser. I bitch a lot,
but when I do, I NEVER blame it on the other player being cheesy...I
try to blame it on the controls or something. I know that deep down it
was my fault that I lost, but I'm not about to yell at the top of my
lungs I'M A FUCKING LOSER! But I never accuse the other player of being
cheap...I accept everything, from infinites to throws to even
ridiculous Strider and Ibuki over-priority (I had to accept it, I was
one of Tee Carter's best friends and he always had a knack for finding
out who the over-powered character was in the 1st week a game was
out...and then he'd never use anyone else. Arg.) I remember, Tee would
complain too about my throwing, but he never fought me about it or
anything. If he got mad, he'd just stop playing for a while and cool
down, and come back when he wasn't mad anymore. He admitted that throws
were NOT cheating, or cheap, but just another part of the game that
needed to be overcome to win. Tee was a very smart kid, for the place
where he came from (very bad area) and how underpriviledged he was.
What happened to him? He was killed by a thug, for no reason. The guy
didn't even know him...
I think that the problem with throwing is 2 things:
1.) Normal people get annoyed by it. They bitch about it (which is
perfectly ok). Some people can handle it, learn from it, and use it to
their advantage. Others can accept it and choose not to use it. Then
there are those who just can't accept it, because they simply aren't
smart enough to learn how to counter it, and so to cover up their
inadequacies they say "you're a scrub," or "you fight without honor,
because you have to throw to win." Whatever. If you think it's
dishonorable to throw in a fighting game, you need to look up what the
defenition of honor really means. Now get the fuck out of my arcade you
loser. YOU are problem #1.
2.) Problem #2 is thugs, who think they rule the world and are the
shit. If anybody beats them, they go nuts and start shooting people.
About that shooting in Atlanta...I bet you that even if the person
hadn't thrown, they still would have been shot. The shooter obviously
was a self-conscious little fuck who felt like an ass for being beat,
got really mad, and didn't know how to deal with his anger, so he shot
the guy. Oh boy, what a man he was. Truly full of "honor."
In conclusion, I think that we gamers have to take a stand against this
general "bitchiness" that has seeped into our arcades. The next time
somebody complains about you throwing, tell him "Look, either play me
again and learn how to get around it, or just don't play me anymore.
Either way, stop bitching, because only pathetic people bitch. Just
learn from your mistakes, and beat me!" And if you're afraid of getting
shot? Don't go to that arcade anymore. Let the idiots shoot themselves
and kill themselves off. Believe me guys, it won't last much longer
anyways.
Good gaming to everyone, throwers and non-throwers alike.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chocobo
> "Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr." wrote:
>
> > Exactly. Why waste time with non-throwing scrub fools with weaponry?
> > They won't make you any better at the game, and they're not fun to
> > play.
>
> I never said I didn't use throws. And since when does *not* using throws make one a scrub?
Since SF2 came out. I thought I already went over this.
>
> You're making some pretty asinine statements here. I understand that certain characters
> *have* to use throws as part of their overall strategy because they have little else but if
> you have a character with a lethal aresnal like Ken, Ryu or Guile, characters that can win
> using traps, foot games, etc. why would you need to throw?
Who cares what you "need" to do? I may not need to use my fierce button or use my super meter
to beat some people. Does that mean I shouldn't use those? That's just stupid. Why would you
not use a weapon available to you when your goal in the game is to win?
> Especially if your opponent is
> hopelessly overmatched, is being soundly beaten by you, and has no chance of coming back.
> What's the point?
The point is WINNING. That's the object of the game.
Richard DeLauder
argument implies some sort of defense of this ignorant attitude. If it is
not a part of your gameplay, it would probably make you a hypocrite.
If you look at your own statement you can see the flaws. "but if
> you have a character with a lethal aresnal like Ken, Ryu or Guile,
characters that can win
> using traps, foot games, etc. why would you need to throw?"
that is excatly why you need to throw... how are you going to use your
arsenal if your opponent knows they don't have to take it? throws are a key
to that process, especially guile (i don't know how you can even say guile
has an arsenal without the threat of throws)... the argument is
fundamentally wrong.. so don't even try to argue from a logical standpoint..
now most times this leads to the 'it's my opinion and i'm allowed to have it
no matter how unproven and bad it is' weak ass excuse that comes up so
often.
I think a common problem is that players aren't playing to win, and
therefore are forced into a position where they have to take advantage of
throws. Some may call it playing for fun, i call it giving rounds... maybe
it's alright for certain places... but noone like that has to my knowledge
ever had the know-how and the ability to be considered a top player. With
all this keep in mind that the argument that was presented by "Shiranui
Gen-An" and the ones before are fundamentally wrong, it's not like I am just
flaming out of spite... see below for details.
Before whoever decides to post the next mis-informed throwing argument up...
remember that you are posting a very small article on something that is
entirely opinion to you. If you are even going to TRY to make the case, at
least use something factual, maybe using some characters, some situations,
maybe some gameplay description, something we can argue, instead of what
someone and their people supposedly can tell about a game.
Just to clear the air as well, i am not saying I am a better person than
anyone, I just believe there is NO way that one can write an experienced and
true guide to SF without giving throws equal regard. If there is that bit
of hesitation or doubt to use a throw, you've lost the match already.
"Shiranui Gen-An" <shiran...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:388A6B28...@mindspring.com...
>
>
> "Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr." wrote:
>
> > Exactly. Why waste time with non-throwing scrub fools with weaponry?
> > They won't make you any better at the game, and they're not fun to
> > play.
>
> I never said I didn't use throws. And since when does *not* using throws
make one a scrub?
> You're making some pretty asinine statements here. I understand that
certain characters
> *have* to use throws as part of their overall strategy because they have
little else but if
> you have a character with a lethal aresnal like Ken, Ryu or Guile,
characters that can win
> using traps, foot games, etc. why would you need to throw? Especially if
RDM1976
Actually, for me the whole point of the game is to have fun. If I win, great!
If I lose, well that's fine too. Either outcome suits me as long as I enjoyed
myself. The only times I don't enjoy it is if it's my first time playing a
game and some jerk has to destroy me without letting me even figure out A move.
That happened soooooo much the first time I tried to play Tekken Tag. Another
time I don't have fun is when someone just does one or two moves over and over
again. Win or lose, that's just boring.
Chocobo
> >The point is WINNING. That's the object of the game.
>
> Actually, for me the whole point of the game is to have fun.
I was talking about the point of using throws. The point of the game is to have
fun.
Richard DeLauder
> > I have been playing SF since '92, and while I am no expert, I am far
from being
> > an unskilled player. I have no problem with throws; it's using ticks as
a
> > constant method of attack or using them to get a comeback when the punk
would
> > have lost otherwise that angered me.
Assume he let you get him down to nothing, then chose to dominate
you as he could have at any point in the match, that way you won't feel like
you lost so much. Your anger gives me the impression that you wanted to
win, but from your gameplay, you didn't deserve to, you just had an
advantage, then exposed your weakness and lost. It happens.
> > That was back in the Super SF days, when
> > throws still took off 20-25% damage. And as Sean Gilley mentioned in a
previous
> > post, around here there was/still is a general "no tick" attitude and
you expect
> > people to abide.
Then those people need to grow up. It might break their heart to
know that their style is not as effective that way, but if they are going to
sit at a machine and pretend they know how to play, maybe they should learn
how the game works while they are there. I also feel sorry for people who
can't block crossups, do supers, or similar things... but they have to get
over it and either accept that it's a part of the game, or stop playing 'for
real'. I have a 'no tick' attitude when playing with children who use
stools to get to the machine, because i take it that they cannot quite
comprehend that aspect of the game. I expect a little more from semi to
fully grown people.... ESPECIALLY if your going to be on a ng and trying to
defend it.
> > I don't know where you get off saying I'm "shortsighted," "not
> > really a student of SF," or "have a serious mental problem" just because
I get
> > upset at what I consider to be a dirty way of winning but you need to
take that
> > elitist attitude somewhere else, jackass.
Shortsighted - you look at a lifebar, see that you are ahead, and assume you
deserve to win, not keeping in mind that the best players would then try to
find what works and come out ahead.
not really a student of SF - you have not used any sort of fact or 'SF
logic' in your argument, yet you stand by it (mostly because the
shortsightedness seems to be keeping you from realizing what it takes to
truly win).
serious mental problem - because of your shortsightedness and not being a
student. You get UPSET over things that are ENTIRELY YOUR OWN FAULT. That
is a sign of a serious mental problem if i saw one.
if my attitude seems elitist because it follows the elitist of SF strategies
in my attempt to learn from the elite SF players, thanks... I appreciate the
compliment but there are many that argue better than I... I have not yet
grown tired of these old and worn out arguments like some of the older
players have. I am also not intrested in your personal opinion of me, just
as long as you know and admit that my point is correct or present a valid
case to the contrary... no personal opinion excuses please.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
<shiran...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I never said I didn't use throws.
That post was never directed at you.
>And since when does *not* using throws make one a scrub?
I didn't say that, but if you refuse to use throws and think you're
good at the game, you'll get schooled by the good ones who do.
>You're making some pretty asinine statements here.
What I said was - "Don't waste your time against scrubs who carry
guns."
>I understand that certain characters
>*have* to use throws as part of their overall strategy because they have little else but if
>you have a character with a lethal aresnal like Ken, Ryu or Guile, characters that can win
>using traps, foot games, etc. why would you need to throw?
Many reasons, mostly because that's what they do to win.
>Especially if your opponent is
>hopelessly overmatched, is being soundly beaten by you, and has no chance of coming back.
>What's the point?
You can be honorable if you like, but a game is a game and complaining
about the lack of balance isn't going to change it. If you don't like
getting thrown, don't play the game.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> serious mental problem - because of your shortsightedness and not being a
> student. You get UPSET over things that are ENTIRELY YOUR OWN FAULT. That
> is a sign of a serious mental problem if i saw one.
I don't know about that. It is very common. Shifting the blame. People do it
all the time.
Shiranui Gen-An
> In conclusion, I think that we gamers have to take a stand against this
> general "bitchiness" that has seeped into our arcades. The next time
> somebody complains about you throwing, tell him "Look, either play me
> again and learn how to get around it, or just don't play me anymore.
> Either way, stop bitching, because only pathetic people bitch. Just
> learn from your mistakes, and beat me!"
I don't know about that; with all the trigger-happy wackos in today's world,
I wouldn't advise talking like that to ANYONE you don't know, whether in an
arcade or any other setting.
Shiranui Gen-An
Richard DeLauder wrote:
> Assume he let you get him down to nothing, then chose to dominate
> you as he could have at any point in the match, that way you won't feel like
> you lost so much. Your anger gives me the impression that you wanted to
> win, but from your gameplay, you didn't deserve to, you just had an
> advantage, then exposed your weakness and lost. It happens.
>
> Shortsighted - you look at a lifebar, see that you are ahead, and assume you
> deserve to win, not keeping in mind that the best players would then try to
> find what works and come out ahead.
Whatever. I NEVER assume I have the victory won until I KO the opponent. I've
pulled come-from-behind victories enough to know that. And yes, sometimes I did
tick to get a little advantage back, but I didn't use it the entire time and I
didn't use it to finish him off either. That's just how I choose to play.
> not really a student of SF - you have not used any sort of fact or 'SF
> logic' in your argument, yet you stand by it (mostly because the
> shortsightedness seems to be keeping you from realizing what it takes to
> truly win).
Whatever. This is the stupidist thing you've said so far, and deserves no
rebuttal save for this.
> serious mental problem - because of your shortsightedness and not being a
> student. You get UPSET over things that are ENTIRELY YOUR OWN FAULT. That
> is a sign of a serious mental problem if i saw one.
Then I guess most people have a "serious mental problem."
> just as long as you know and admit that my point is correct or present a
> valid
> case to the contrary
Did I ever say it *wasn't* a valid contrary argument? No. All I was doing was
explaining *my* reasons for generally disliking ticking. I never said "skilled
players never tick" or anything remotely similar to that argument. I never said
arcades where throwing is accepted are wrong and should change. So by the same
token you shouldn't judge arcades where there is a "no-throw" policy; if that's
how the players feel, then let them feel that way. It's not wrong or right, or
less "skillful." I think it produces a different playing style, no better or
worse than one where throws are used freely. You need to get off your high
horse thinking you're some SF master lecturing all the "inexperienced masses" on
proper fighting game techniques.
Shiranui Gen-An
I just thought I'd add a little something to the mix. Anyone remember
"Weaponlord?" I never played it, but what I heard of it was that two guys
who were former Capcom employees (James Goddard and Dave Winstead, IIRC)
designed it trying to make what they though was a better fighter. They
made throws special moves that were blockable because obviously they didn't
like ticks either (remember, this was back in the classic SF days when 4-5
throws did you in). Did that make them "scrubs" or "unskilled?" I would
have to disagree, since they contributed to a couple of good SF strategy
guides and they DID work at Capcom; in fact their ideas were incorporated
into HF. They just didn't like the idea of a high-damage attack that was
unblockable and easily performed after freezing the opponent up by making
him block a weak attack. Some of you obviously have no problem with
ticking. Can't we just accept each other's different styles without
calling each other "cheap," "scrubby" or other such insulting names?
Chocobo
> I just thought I'd add a little something to the mix. Anyone remember
> "Weaponlord?" I never played it, but what I heard of it was that two guys
> who were former Capcom employees (James Goddard and Dave Winstead, IIRC)
> designed it trying to make what they though was a better fighter. They
> made throws special moves that were blockable because obviously they didn't
> like ticks either (remember, this was back in the classic SF days when 4-5
> throws did you in).
So you do think you're psychic, then. How does having an un-SFlike way of
throwing "obviously" show that they don't like throws in SF? Weaponlord was a
different kind of game, with more ways to punish people who like to sit there
and block all day.
> Did that make them "scrubs" or "unskilled?"
Of course not.
> I would
> have to disagree, since they contributed to a couple of good SF strategy
> guides and they DID work at Capcom; in fact their ideas were incorporated
> into HF. They just didn't like the idea of a high-damage attack that was
> unblockable and easily performed after freezing the opponent up by making
> him block a weak attack. Some of you obviously have no problem with
> ticking.
So why are you opposed to throws? Because the controller motion is easy? Do you
think other moves are fair because the controller motion takes skill (which it
does not)? I know it's certainly not because they're easy to use successfully,
because that's not true... could it be because it's unblockable? If so, what do
you think about Ryu's Denjin fireball in SF3, or the guard crush in EX?
> Can't we just accept each other's different styles without
> calling each other "cheap," "scrubby" or other such insulting names?
You started it. If you don't want to hear how not using throws is scrubby, then
don't call them cheap.
EC
><<Ah.. another lovely misquote. I said Spider-mans web throw is very similar
>to
>scorpions attack. Several board members were listing games SF ripped off. Get
>over it.. it was just one idea. I admit it was a stretch, but for you to want
>to kick my ass for typing it.. what does that say about your mental
>dexterity?>>
>
>Misquote..sure...If only Deja would let me find your original....and no I want
>to kick your ass for everyone on this NG. Possibly break your hand so you have
>no excuse to say anything on here anymore.
>
Starts the comments.. the thread continues from there.
EC
>>ve tried so hard to ignore you. When are you coming up here JB? Name the
>>Time and Place. PLEASE
>>
>
>Buddy, trust me you wouldn't want to meet me I will let you know the next time
>I go up, seriously. When you see me, then decide if you actually want to try
>me. I'll even let you have first shot.
>
>>Spiderman is a RIP-OFF of Scorpion....among other things.
>
>Ah.. another lovely misquote. I said Spider-mans web throw is very similar to
>scorpions attack. Several board members were listing games SF ripped off. Get
>over it.. it was just one idea. I admit it was a stretch, but for you to want
>to kick my ass for typing it.. what does that say about your mental dexterity?
>
Misquote?
>If you don't think Northern California is extremely tame, then you need to move
>down south for a couple of years.
>.
>.
Richard DeLauder
>
>
> Richard DeLauder wrote:
>
> > Assume he let you get him down to nothing, then chose to
dominate
> > you as he could have at any point in the match, that way you won't feel
like
> > you lost so much. Your anger gives me the impression that you wanted to
> > win, but from your gameplay, you didn't deserve to, you just had an
> > advantage, then exposed your weakness and lost. It happens.
> >
> > Shortsighted - you look at a lifebar, see that you are ahead, and assume
you
> > deserve to win, not keeping in mind that the best players would then try
to
> > find what works and come out ahead.
>
> Whatever. I NEVER assume I have the victory won until I KO the opponent.
I've
> pulled come-from-behind victories enough to know that. And yes, sometimes
I did
> tick to get a little advantage back, but I didn't use it the entire time
and I
> didn't use it to finish him off either. That's just how I choose to play.
If you keep falling for it, why should anyone stop using it??? you are
basing your case on the assumption that tick throwing is something that a
player should not be able to use all the time. We have already went over
how wrong that assumption is, yet you use it as evidence. Don't work from
that assumption, instead view the game is it is played. How you choose to
play is your decision, what is wrong is your reaction to the way other
people play, whether you are violent, or just a little upset.. this is based
on the same attitude, which again, has no merit.
> > not really a student of SF - you have not used any sort of fact or 'SF
> > logic' in your argument, yet you stand by it (mostly because the
> > shortsightedness seems to be keeping you from realizing what it takes to
> > truly win).
>
> Whatever. This is the stupidist thing you've said so far, and deserves no
> rebuttal save for this.
How so? are you denying the claim that your argument is pretty much
baseless... and instead presents some personal opinion that does not fit
with any concept of how to play SF. I mean it's real easy to type ">
Whatever. This is the stupidist thing you've said so far, and deserves no
rebuttal save for this." to anything that is said, so maybe you should
clarify it.
> > serious mental problem - because of your shortsightedness and not being
a
> > student. You get UPSET over things that are ENTIRELY YOUR OWN FAULT.
That
> > is a sign of a serious mental problem if i saw one.
>
> Then I guess most people have a "serious mental problem."
Notice how few elite SF players we have in the US, notice how many
people get upset, violent, or bent out of shape over things that are their
own fault such as that. So to answer your comment, most people do have this
'serious mental problem', which is why we have news broadcasts filled with
this junk.
> > just as long as you know and admit that my point is correct or present
a
> > valid
> > case to the contrary
>
> Did I ever say it *wasn't* a valid contrary argument? No.
right
>All I was doing was explaining *my* reasons for generally disliking
ticking. I never said "skilled
> players never tick" or anything remotely similar to that argument. I
never said
> arcades where throwing is accepted are wrong and should change. So by the
same
> token you shouldn't judge arcades where there is a "no-throw" policy; if
that's
> how the players feel, then let them feel that way.
This is not a good idea at all. You seem to be implying that i should LET
people have these obviously ignorant opinions, and make them an arcade
standard. I feel sorry for people who want to play SF for the game it is,
and don't want to get involved with all the BS of 'not tick throwing', they
will truly be held back IMO. I can say that those arcades should change for
fairness to the players, you cannot, and therefore should not be telling me
to change my arcade.
> It's not wrong or right, or less "skillful." I think it produces a
different playing style, no better or
> worse than one where throws are used freely. You need to get off your
high
> horse thinking you're some SF master lecturing all the "inexperienced
masses" on
> proper fighting game techniques.
It is not 'wrong' or 'right' in a moral sense, but it certainly is less
skillful. How do you dare say that the no throwing style is ", no better or
worse than one where throws are used freely", all the evidence in the world
says the opposite... we take it as the general case that jpn style is better
than WC style is better than EC style.. and your trying to say that the
no-throwing style cannot be judged! People can overcome a geographic
disadvantage, by studing the game,traveling, and generally trying to expose
themselves to other styles. The no-throwing style has no way of overcoming
itself, because as soon as you get over the non-throwing, you are playing a
different style.
Maybe you have this concept that i need to be a world champion before i can
tell you about SF, but if you research the champions and masters, and find
out that their playing style and results are in line with what i say, then
is it wrong for me to be the one to point it out to you. Why can't i tell
people about the ways of SF, should i hide it from them?
You need to realize that you are responsible for what you say on the NG,
when people disagree, it is very cowardly to retreat to your corner and act
like you are the one being attacked when you put your idea in a public forum
where we all can respond. If your feel your statements are valid, by all
means defend them... I challenge you to find evidence that a non-thrower
will be able to compete in SF, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.
I don't know why you get so offended that your style is a bit lacking, or
that someone who uses it is probably not a top-skilled player, that's the
way the game works.
Andrew Christopher Ward
> calling each other "cheap," "scrubby" or other such insulting names?
I still want an answer to my question.
How come , for all your skills and strategies, did you never think of
countering the tick or keeping yourself out of position for getting tick
thrown? It's not like if your opponent is full screen away he can
suddenly use the magic tick throw for a free victory. He would have to be
rushing you down and making you block mad stuff.. in which case you are
being set up to lose..
well? how come these tick throws devastate you so much? do you have an
answer ?
Shiranui Gen-An
Andrew Christopher Ward wrote:
> > ticking. Can't we just accept each other's different styles without
> > calling each other "cheap," "scrubby" or other such insulting names?
>
> I still want an answer to my question.
>
> How come , for all your skills and strategies, did you never think of
> countering the tick or keeping yourself out of position for getting tick
> thrown? It's not like if your opponent is full screen away he can
> suddenly use the magic tick throw for a free victory. He would have to be
> rushing you down and making you block mad stuff.. in which case you are
> being set up to lose..
In the one instance I spoke of, I *did* see it coming. I had Honda, he had
Ken. I blocked his jump-in RH and knew he'd try to throw when he landed so I
continued to hold back and started pressing Fierce. But somehow he still got
his throw off anyway. End of round, end of game, end of tokens.
> well? how come these tick throws devastate you so much? do you have an
> answer ?
I haven't really had to deal with them since I don't go to arcades anymore,
but I never said they "devastate me so much." As I stated earlier, most
people didn't use them anyway, so even when I was playing it never came up
much.
Shiranui Gen-An
Andrew Christopher Ward wrote:
> >How come , for all your skills and strategies, did you never think of
> countering the tick or keeping yourself out of position for getting tick
> thrown?
Where are you getting this crap? I never implied that I was anything more
than an average player. Where are you getting this "for all your skills and
strategies" BS?!
Shiranui Gen-An
Richard DeLauder wrote:
> This is not a good idea at all. You seem to be implying that i should LET
> people have these obviously ignorant opinions, and make them an arcade
> standard. I feel sorry for people who want to play SF for the game it is,
> and don't want to get involved with all the BS of 'not tick throwing', they
> will truly be held back IMO. I can say that those arcades should change for
> fairness to the players, you cannot, and therefore should not be telling me
> to change my arcade.
Exactly where did I say you should change your arcade? I was trying to promote
a "live and let live" policy between arcades/players where throwing is
accepted/encouraged and ones where it is looked down upon, but obviously you
feel it's your mission to enlighten the ignorant non-throwing "scrubs."
> It is not 'wrong' or 'right' in a moral sense, but it certainly is less
> skillful. How do you dare say that the no throwing style is ", no better or
> worse than one where throws are used freely", all the evidence in the world
> says the opposite... we take it as the general case that jpn style is better
> than WC style is better than EC style.. and your trying to say that the
> no-throwing style cannot be judged! People can overcome a geographic
> disadvantage, by studing the game,traveling, and generally trying to expose
> themselves to other styles. The no-throwing style has no way of overcoming
> itself, because as soon as you get over the non-throwing, you are playing a
> different style.
>
> Maybe you have this concept that i need to be a world champion before i can
> tell you about SF, but if you research the champions and masters, and find
> out that their playing style and results are in line with what i say, then
> is it wrong for me to be the one to point it out to you. Why can't i tell
> people about the ways of SF, should i hide it from them?
>
> You need to realize that you are responsible for what you say on the NG,
> when people disagree, it is very cowardly to retreat to your corner and act
> like you are the one being attacked when you put your idea in a public forum
> where we all can respond. If your feel your statements are valid, by all
> means defend them... I challenge you to find evidence that a non-thrower
> will be able to compete in SF, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.
> I don't know why you get so offended that your style is a bit lacking, or
> that someone who uses it is probably not a top-skilled player, that's the
> way the game works.
All I can say is...I have grown weary of communicating with you. We have
different opinions. I can accept your side but you don't seem to be able to do
the same for me, and that being the case, I have nothing further to say.
Andrew Christopher Ward
I'm getting it from your other posts, man. Stop being so defensive.
I have seen you post about comboing into supers, and various stuff about
V-ism, etc. etc. .. lots of tactics for various characters as well. I
have received the impression that you are a better than average
player. Which is why I find it so hard to believe that you could so
easily be defeated by something as simple as tick throws. I mean, we all
lose a game to repeat ticks in SF2 now and then (such as m.bison or
balrog's), but you have so much trouble with them that you would seek to
create an entirely new class of "no-tick" players?
BTW, you yourself have mentioned many times in this thread "just because I
don't tick, doesn't mean I suck." Hey, I believe you. You don't
suck. So why are you having so much trouble with ticks? It's just
curiosity..
Shiranui Gen-An
Andrew Christopher Ward wrote:
> I'm getting it from your other posts, man. Stop being so defensive.
> I have seen you post about comboing into supers, and various stuff about
> V-ism, etc. etc. .. lots of tactics for various characters as well. I
> have received the impression that you are a better than average
> player. Which is why I find it so hard to believe that you could so
> easily be defeated by something as simple as tick throws. I mean, we all
> lose a game to repeat ticks in SF2 now and then (such as m.bison or
> balrog's), but you have so much trouble with them that you would seek to
> create an entirely new class of "no-tick" players?
I don't seek to create them; they already exist. Most players around here still
seem to be anti-throw for the most part, so when someone uses them in ticks it
kind ticks you off. It can get pretty extreme, though. Once I threw a guy who
missed a Dragon and he though I was cheap for doing that. Whatever.
> BTW, you yourself have mentioned many times in this thread "just because I
> don't tick, doesn't mean I suck." Hey, I believe you. You don't
> suck. So why are you having so much trouble with ticks? It's just
> curiosity..
I don't have "so much" trouble with them; they're just so easy to set up. Block a
jump in/ducking Short/Jab and there you go, flying through the air. I don't care
what anyone says, no human being can react to *every* single jump in with an
anti-air, or Super/VC/any other counter *every* time someone sticks out a move, so
everyone is susceptible to some extent. These days, with throws doing such little
damage, I don't mind as much but my feelings about ticks are basically a carryover
of bad experiences I had playing the old SF games. Losing to ticks can be
especially frustrating when you're a novice, which I wasn't much more than at the
time.
Jeremy Balsley
"JB Gainz" <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000122133601...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> >YOU not using throws doesn't concern me. The whole 'Throwing is scrubby'
> >arguement
> >does.
>
> Never said this. Let's not put words in each others mouths.
>> Wait for oponent to miss an attack then walk up and throw them. Not much
>skill
>> needed.
Was what you said. It's not a far trip to go from 'not much skill needed'
to
'scrubby'. Afterall, scrubby is supposed to mean a low skill solution, yes?
If it does, then the only thing you can say that you _didn't_ say 'Throwing
is scrubby' is by denying you said the above quoted line.
>
> > The whole arguement that 'Throws are too easy and hurt too much'
> >concerns me
> >greatly
>
> I Feel touched you are so concerned about the way I play SF. :-)
>
I'm not concerned with the way you play SF. I'm concerned with the way that
my
opponents play SF. There are a few throw hostile people down here in Baton
Rouge.
I feel that those people, and all the other people out there in the world
who don't
use throws, are wrong and need to be put in their place. Granted, a harsh
way of
putting it, but it's how I feel. This is a public forum, so I do have the
right to
take a person to task for saying they are 'no throw' and saying throws are a
'not
much skill needed' thing.
> > I don't throw because I don't like
> >to
> >throw, and I don't throw because it takes no skill and does too much
damage.
>
> Once again.. putting words in my mouth.. never said throws are skilless.
I
> just don't think there is as much skill needed as was claimed by someone..
or
> was it you?
>
See the above. While you didn't claim it does too much damage in the quoted
material, you did say it took little skill, if not no skill.
> >> How about this... I'll perform a throw now and then just for you. :-)
> >
> >Whatever floats your boat...
> >
>
> In that case nevermind.. hehe
Look at it this way. This is a rage against the no-throwers. I myself
don't
put much emphasis on throws. However, I am far from competitive
material...I play
the game for fun. In MY opinion, worrying about not throwing makes the game
not
fun. Worrying about not 'offending' the other player by an accidental (or
not so
accidental) throw makes the game unfun.
blt
> Ken. I blocked his jump-in RH and knew he'd try to throw when he landed so I
> continued to hold back and started pressing Fierce. But somehow he still got
> his throw off anyway. End of round, end of game, end of tokens.
Well, since you didn't jab headbutt his jumpin, you now have to deal with
the tick.
Several things you can do here.
1. Headbutt his throw. That is, after you block the jumpin, perfectly
time a headbutt to hit him when he goes for throw. That hurts.
2. Reverse the throw. This is actually not that hard against jumpin
ticks. In older SF games before tech hit this takes very good
timing.. basically you watch your character real close.. as soon as he
comes out of his block stance, you throw. After your opponent gets thrown
this way a few times he will stop trying to tick. As far as I understand,
ALL tick throws can be reversed throw reversed (except certain corner
traps where their range is greater than yours). It's simply a matter of
having good enough timing.
3. New school games (alpha3 honda): jump out.
You tried to do door #2 and failed. What's wrong with that? You didn't
have the skill at the time to properly execute a throw reversal, and you
lost as a result. That sounds just to me.
Frankly, I think what happened to you was very fair. Suppose you had
headbutted his jumpin rh. You would have won, or at least gained a
significant advantage since you would be standing and he would be on the
ground. If you do the best thing correctly, you win or gain the
advantage. If you do the safest thing (block) you don't lose right away,
but you give the advantage to your opponent and create an opportunity for
him to win. And if you try to do the right thing but fail to do it
properly, you lose. Risk, balanced with reward, with skill as a
prerequisite. You COULD have won, but you didn't do what you needed to do
to ensure victory, and you didn't have the skill to defend yourself
against your opponent's tactic once you blocked the jumpin. So you lost.
THAT's great game design...
Chocobo
> > BTW, you yourself have mentioned many times in this thread "just because I
> > don't tick, doesn't mean I suck." Hey, I believe you. You don't
> > suck. So why are you having so much trouble with ticks? It's just
> > curiosity..
>
> I don't have "so much" trouble with them; they're just so easy to set up. Block a
> jump in/ducking Short/Jab and there you go, flying through the air.
You think they're cheap because they're easy to land? That is not true at all. If
you're in a no-throw state of mind and think that you can block all day long, then of
course you won't be expecting it. But it you're looking out for them, it's not easy to
land the throw. It's just like any other move in the game.
> I don't care
> what anyone says, no human being can react to *every* single jump in with an
> anti-air, or Super/VC/any other counter *every* time someone sticks out a move, so
> everyone is susceptible to some extent.
Well, of course not every throw is avoided, just like not every other move is avoided.
A throw is just another move. Why do you separate it from the other moves in your
mind?
blt
You could have done a dizzy combo there instead and he would still be
yelling cheap. Also sometimes there is only time to do a throw (like
against Ken whiff dp's). Don't worry about that guy..
> I don't have "so much" trouble with them; they're just so easy to set
> up. Block a jump in/ducking Short/Jab and there you go, flying through
> the air.
Some problems with this statement:
The throw isn't guaranteed. Block a short or jab, and they could just as
easily be flying through the air from your counter throw.. or eating a
super for 60%.. or custom..
> what anyone says, no human being can react to *every* single jump in with an
> anti-air, or
There are a few who can react to most.
And the point is you want to react MOST of the time. Enough to discourage
your opponent from jumping in all the time. If you get surprised and
block a jumpin, you now are in trouble. As it should be.
> Super/VC/any other counter *every* time someone sticks
> out a move, so
Keep them away from you so you don't have to do things like that.
Forge
THROWS ARE part of the game, they're there.. to use or abuse...
Live with it or love it!... make your choice! But complaining about throws?
...
Whats the point in that?... They're an integral part of the Strategy of many
characters
and so they should be!.... if you don't like throws.. just stay away from
your opponent...
and voila.. you don't have to worry anymore right?
Throws aren't cheap.. Punishing ppl who can't block coz of a faulty Joystick
is Cheap... using Ken's DP's against a character who's trying to get a move
out edgeways is Cheap... the amount of ARK characters in MvSF is Cheap...
Throws.. they are low on the list of cheapness!
Offended by throws? Shouldn't you have learn't after one or two (which you
say are ok) to stay away? As a consistant part of your strategy to counter
a move you blocked Throws are great... combos are greater... big deal... it
was the attackers fault for not taking the possibility of being thrown into
account... use your head... play the game ... don't just whine about it!
<whoa...@aol.com> wrote in message news:868fq2$3u0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> For a while now I've always wondered what the general opinion is...so I
> guess is as good a time as any to ask you guys what you think about
> throwing in fighting games. I find that in my experience, one or two
> throws is acceptable...but in any fighting game, if you use throws as a
> consistent part of your strategy, or throw three or more times during a
> match, the opponent regards you as "cheap" and whines and complains a
> lot. Well, I'm VERY offended by this. I've always been known as
> an "infamous" thrower by my rivals here in CT, especially in MvsC. (In
> fact my nicknames are "ThrowMaster" and Phil "Throw-Like-Hell" Burnell)
> Lots of people say that I'd be "no good" if I didn't throw...but look
> who's talking: those who can only win by using infinites (like RV or
> WM's), cheesy double-teams (GWM and anybody), or Strider players (nuff'
> said). Sure these people are good, but can they consistently win with
> Ryu, Hulk, regular Venom, Chun-Li, Wolverine (my favorite)...without
> employing one of these "cheap" strategies? Nope.
>
> Let me give you an example: in tournaments, I am known for pulling
> victories out of my ass with massive comebacks. For example, once I was
> Ryu and Wolverine, the opponent was GWM and Strider. Well after much
> double-team cheesiness and over priority bullshit, I found that I was
> facing a GWM with about 1/4 life and a full-life Strider. Well I
> finished GWM in my own way (namely, a Shinkuu-Hadoken to the face), but
> all I had left was Ryu with about 1/10 energy, against his unharmed
> Strider. Talk about an unfair match! So, to make it fair, I had to
> throw a few times...okay, more than a few...basically I used my nasty
> throw tactics to FP throw him about, oh, say 10 times...he hardly ever
> teched because it's so hard to tech that throw and well, he lost. Heh.
> The final move? He finished an Oroborous, I was in the corner and he
> had me trapped....so he did the 4-hit ground combo up close, I pushed
> blocked...and was able to throw him while he was still stunned from the
> last hit. He was PISSED. Everybody said that my victory was so "cheap"
> and that I had no skill.
>
> But what do you guys think? I think that being able to get such a
> victory, against such an over-powered character, with an underdog like
> Ryu, is a pretty big accomplishment. Generally I throw a lot, and
> people bitch about it. I don't think it's so bad:
> 1.) Throws generally do little damage. I mean, I had to throw Strider
> 10 times to kill him. The only time that throws are deadly are when you
> can auto-combo after them, like Gief's MP throw.
> 2.) Throws are not cheap at all. You can easily tech any throw if you
> are fast enough...they are NOT inescapable.
> 3.) If you're good enough, you'd be able to keep me away and render me
> unable to throw, right? So quit whining and get some skills so you can
> beat me!
>
> So do you guys regard throws as cheap? Or do they require skills???
JB Gainz
>>Misquote..sure...If only Deja would let me find your original....and no I
>want
>>to kick your ass for everyone on this NG. Possibly break your hand so you
>have
>>no excuse to say anything on here anymore.
>>
Well, I checked out the old post you searched for. Before going into it, I
have to say it is pretty sad you felt the need to search for it. Almost as sad
as you remembering it and getting pissed off over it.
Anyway, I read the post. Basically, I stand by what I said. I was just saying
one move of Spider-man's was related to Scorpion, though I did not write it at
the time. I never said Spider-man was an exact rip off nor did I say he even
was a rip off. I basically said elements of scorpions were taken... which
still is a stretch.
Keep, it up buddy. I noticed you lost one battle so you joined in on someone
elses. When most people loose a battle they don't continue by changing the
subject. Sad, sad, sad.. bringing up the past. If it makes you feel better
I'll say I am wrong. Spider-man does not moves similar to Scorpion.. he is an
exact rip off of Subzero because of the web ball and his name starts with an
"S" just like Subby. Let's go another round.
.
.
.
JB Gainz
>> Never said this. Let's not put words in each others mouths.
>Was what you said. It's not a far trip to go from 'not much skill needed'
>to
>'scrubby'. Afterall, scrubby is supposed to mean a low skill solution, yes?
No, scrubby means no skill.
>If it does, then the only thing you can say that you _didn't_ say 'Throwing
>is scrubby' is by denying you said the above quoted line.
>
wtf ?????
>I'm not concerned with the way you play SF. I'm concerned with the way that
>my
>opponents play SF. There are a few throw hostile people down here in Baton
>Rouge.
This is all good, but what does arguing about throws with me have to do with
your Louisianna throw hating thugs? I assume they are thugs if the get
hostile.
.
.
JB Gainz
>THROWS ARE part of the game, they're there.. to use or abuse...
>Live with it or love it!... make your choice! But complaining about throws?
( stands up and claps )
"Bravo! Bravo!"
Best post of the string.