SFA3 and why people play
Chocobo
> Allow me to present a revolutionary idea into the board: why do people play
> Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
> Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game seen
> more interesting. It doesn't work.
It adds variety to the game... unfortunately everyone good uses Vism, but it wasn't
a bad idea.
> The game is still horribly slow to play, and
> just plain boring.
Opinion.
> As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
> the hands of skilled players.
So what? Every fighting game EVER has this.
> Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why do I
> like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing? Because
> it's FUN. Yes, I said FUN. Whoa, what a new concept. Fun is what video GAMES
> are all about.
For myself (and many others I would expect), the fun part of SF is high level
competition, and doing your best to try to win against a good opponent. I don't
find the VS games fun... it's not entertaining to dial combos, or get 50 hits for a
super instead of 5.
> The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
> One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
> gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
> slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow."
Oh, please. You can do this with any game. MVC: One guy uses Strider and
Wolverine... other guy uses Strider and Wolverine. They both spaz a lot, and the
best spazzer wins. Whatever.
> Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
> is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
Wrong.
> Can anybody tell me Hulk's 60% corner combo of doom? No? That's because I've
> only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch? Or a
> well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous? These are
> once-in-a-lifetime things.
Once in a lifetime? That says something about the competition level there.
> You never know what's gonna happen when you play
> MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider. And sure you can argue
> that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live nobody
> knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter. We all get together weekly to
> have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
> MvsC......rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named A3.
> Stop playing A3 just because it's the "newer" game and play something quality
> for a change.
For the majority of this post, you can simply replace A3 with MVC, and replace MVC
with A3, and it's just a post saying that you like one game over the other. The
games are only predictable when you play them predictably. It's only boring when
you make it boring. Just say that you like one game over the other, but don't try
to pass your opinion off as a fact. You're conveniently ignoring everything that's
wrong with MVC, and everything that's good about A3.
joemama
You either have a brain of Einstein or you have a bladder problem.
BOB13
been here a few months and ...
WhoaMoses wrote:
> Allow me to present a revolutionary idea into the board: why do people play
> Alpha3?
Because it takes more skill to play than anything else still in most arcades except
for maybe vf3 and t3
> Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
I only see one gimmick. And that's isms. No big deal. Every game has at least one.
> Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game seen
> more interesting. It doesn't work.
Yeah it does. If you and your friends don't like air blocking or VCs then you can
both pick a particular ism. perfectly logical.
> The game is still horribly slow to play, and
> just plain boring.
Slow? It's plenty fast. As fast if not faster then your fave A1.
> As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
> the hands of skilled players.
Unlike versus games and A1 (note sarcasm).
> And now the people have finally realized the true
> potential of the all-powerful V-ism combo. I knew this was coming. It's just a
> repeat of the CC crazyness of A2.
No it isn't. People are finding ways around them unlike CCs. Some might think they
are too powerful now but that will go away in time. Remember how everyone was
REALLY bitchin about dhalsim. Well he's not so feared anymore. Because have started
to find counter characters and if all else fails use v-ism.
> After people started decimating me when I
> realized I couldn't stand up, and it was unavoidable when I was too close, I
> hated the game.
Are you talking about CCs or VCs. If its VCs then your talking about then you know
nothing about the game and how VCs work.
> I mean, why????? WHY???? Why do we need these stupid "new combo
> systems?" They are useless.
So it's better to keep the Versus BS combo system. WTF? I lost 60% of MY life even
though I just hit HIM with a super?
> The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1, the
> forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to execute
> and added a whole new side to the game. But they were avoidable.
So you say dialing a phone takes skill? No. Guy chains now take skill but chaining
into specials or supers take no skill. If I could do it easily then it's too easy.
> To this day I
> refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3.
No one is stopping you.
> They are just utter
> trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really new
> to give us.
> Sorry, I'd rather get my butt kicked with a punch-kick combo by Ken than by his
> 15 shadows
1 shadow. Only 1 hits.
> .
> Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub?
Yes. and Yes.
> Hardly. Then why do I
> like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing? Because
> it's FUN. Yes, I said FUN.
If it's fun more then keep plating it. But realize it's still trash.
> Whoa, what a new concept. Fun is what video GAMES
> are all about. The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
> One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
> gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
> slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow."
First of all A3 can be as fast as you want it. If it's not then tell your arcade
operator to put it on max turbo. Second, what's wrong with patterns. If you don't
like patterns then you shouldn't even like the versus series. That's one of the
reasons why that games sucks. Have you seen any of the ranking debates on this
newsgroup? The rankings were all about who had the better 'unstoppable' pattern.
> Now
> here's a typical MvsC match: Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li and
> use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed Colossus
> will fuck up any pattern you have.
Sure but the more useful effect is not to stop a pattern but to put it into
those'unstoppable' pattern.
> You can roll out of almost anything and
> effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly. So
> there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
> is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
What game have you been playing? What can Jin do against any pixie. Not much. Roll
versus chunli? Not much. Morrigon versus Wolvirine. Not much. etc.
> Can anybody tell me Hulk's 60% corner combo of doom? No? That's because I've
> only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch? Or a
> well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous? These are
> once-in-a-lifetime things.
You haven't plyed it enough.
> You never know what's gonna happen when you play
> MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider. And sure you can argue
> that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live nobody
> knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter. We all get together weekly to
> have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
> MvsC......
It's unpredictable because of the excessive button mashing. You know whats funny?
Most people consider XSF the best in the series. Why? Because everyone has some BS
infinite in the game to make it balanced. What does that say about the series?
> rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named A3.
> Stop playing A3 just because it's the "newer" game and play something quality
> for a change.
No we play A3 because it has the least trash in it. Oh yeah there is BS in the
game but not as much as most games out in the market today.
P.S. I see you declared yourself the undisputed Tekken 3 champ of the East Coast.
Well I'm the undisputed Tekken 3 champ of West Covina, Ca. If your ever in Cali
look me up and I'll give you the beatdown of your life in that game. How do I know
this? Because you think versus games are good.
WhoaMoses
Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game seen
just plain boring. As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
the hands of skilled players. And now the people have finally realized the true
potential of the all-powerful V-ism combo. I knew this was coming. It's just a
realized I couldn't stand up, and it was unavoidable when I was too close, I
systems?" They are useless. The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1, the
forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to execute
refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just utter
trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really new
to give us.
Sorry, I'd rather get my butt kicked with a punch-kick combo by Ken than by his
Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing? Because
are all about. The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
here's a typical MvsC match: Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li and
use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed Colossus
effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly. So
there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch? Or a
well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous? These are
MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider. And sure you can argue
that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live nobody
knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter. We all get together weekly to
have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
I
>
>Allow me to present a revolutionary idea into the board: why do people play
>Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
>Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game seen
>more interesting.
My sentiments exactly. I've harped on this from day one when SFA3 was originally
released. The ISM's are indeed "gimmicks" to attract potential players from
previous series. The different flavors of each ISM brought new and old generation
SF'ers flocking with glee like children on Christmas morning.
Again, it is a CAPCOM business maneuver to renovate their engine and create a selling
product. The game sells competition and entertainment via gimmicks, combos, supers,
and other eye-candy trinkets. Unfortunately, gameplay and quality seem to be secondary.
--
I...@I.COM
invin...@w3.to
http://w3.to/invincible
kayin/ka khiong kwok
WhoaMoses wrote in message <19990121201635...@ng146.aol.com>...
>Allow me to present a revolutionary idea into the board: why do people play
>Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for
me.
I play cause I'm sheep. Baaaa.... :')
>Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game
seen
>more interesting. It doesn't work. The game is still horribly slow to play,
and
>just plain boring. As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered
in
>the hands of skilled players.
It's Capcom's attempt to inject variety into what is becoming a waning
series, having said that, I have to disagree with you in terms the isms.
They work, but as I previously pointed out, not as well as they should. As
with the speed, I think it's just right. If the character you're using is
slow, then pick a faster character. As with over powered characters, that
is purely a subjective point of view.
>And now the people have finally realized the true
>potential of the all-powerful V-ism combo. I knew this was coming. It's
just a
>repeat of the CC crazyness of A2. After people started decimating me when I
>realized I couldn't stand up, and it was unavoidable when I was too close,
I
>hated the game.
I agree with you on this point, I like Vism as much as the next guy, but
there might be a need to add a bit of restrictions (start up lags, minimal
block damage, no jumping perhaps? ) to it. Flame all you like but you have
to admit that VC do turn weaklings into steroid OD'ed fighting machines.
>I mean, why????? WHY???? Why do we need these stupid "new combo
>systems?" They are useless. The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1,
the
>forgotten one.
They're not useless.
> Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to execute
>and added a whole new side to the game. But they were avoidable. To this
day I
>refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just
utter
>trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really
new
>to give us.
Actually, I think Herman Munster could've pulled off a chain combo easily.
Chains really don't take that much skill. It's really just a case of
learning to do them parrot method.
>Sorry, I'd rather get my butt kicked with a punch-kick combo by Ken than by
his
>15 shadows.
Not a pretty prospect both ways. 15 Kens..... eeeewwwww...... that's like 2
nude Santa Claus.
<snip - A discussion of the finer points of the versus series>
Errrr.... this is weird coming from me, but cool down, have a cup of Earl
Grey and a good lie down. The versus series is good, not great. There are
flaws. Namely Cyclops. Cyclops did to the versus series what drug addicts
did to cannabis. They're both great and fairly useful, but due to their
abuse, they've more or less been shunned by society. Secondly, the versus
series attract cynicism like mad because any one can see that it was fairly
hastily put together as an effective cash cow. As far as I'm concerned,
that's cool by me. It's pretty clear that Capcom is going to be a lot more
careful about creativity after been burnt by SF3 so it's not surprising that
they're sticking to what they know. Other then that, we pretty much all like
the versus game, but that in no ways means that it's a great series (let
alone the best).
As far as A3 is concerned, besides the reason listed above, I'm playing
cause Vega's back, Chun's got her spinning bird kick again, and Ryu looks
like he's been left in the wash too long cause he shrunk. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
=== A fight I liked to see... ===
Blanka vs. Pikachu. My bet's on Pikachu. :')
pnt
seen
:more interesting. It doesn't work.
Isms? A gimmick? So it's a gimmick to say, "ok, you can choose how you want
to fight, and we're gonna give you advantages and disadvantages
accordingly?"
Every single fighting game which has more than one character (namely, all
of them) is therefore using the same "gimmick." Alpha 3 takes the multiple-
fighting-style idea and extends it without needing to create hundreds and
of characters simply by using the "isms." Damn good idea, in my opinion.
:The game is still horribly slow to play, and
:just plain boring.
SLOW? How much faster do you want it to be? Any faster and you wouldn't be
able to react to people jumping in on you. Perhaps your arcade has the
game speed set on the minimum?
If you think the pace of the action and players is slow, I have a
recommendation. CHANGE YOUR STYLE! I have seen people play MvC in
a SLOW way as well: sit back, throwing fireballs..maybe jump and throw
a fireball...do a random beam super if you can anticipate the time
of your opponent's next fireball...hadouken! hadouken! hadouken!
hadouken! hadouken! hadouken! shinkuu hadouken! hadouken! shinkuu..
:forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to
execute
:and added a whole new side to the game. But they were avoidable. To this
day I
Chains took skill to execute?
Do you regularly have trouble dialing phone numbers? You must, because
that's all the skill involved in executing a chain combo. Let me clue you
in then: most of us don't have trouble dialing a couple buttons in a row.
:refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just
utter
:trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really
new
:to give us.
:are all about. The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:"
Wow.
:One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
:gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in
super
:slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow." Now
Typical MvC match: one guy uses Chun Li and Wolverine, another guy uses
Wolverine and Strider. They're gonna duke it out at a frenetic button
mashing pace until someone messes up and eats an 80% combo. Wow.
:here's a typical MvsC match: Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li
and
:use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed
Colossus
:will fuck up any pattern you have.
Here's a typical A3 match: One guy in A3 is gonna use Rolento and use the
typical patterns...but what about SKILLS? A well timed dragon punch
will fuck up any pattern he has.
:You can roll out of almost anything and
You can roll out of almost juggle in A3 as well.
:effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly. So
Is that the kind of game you like? You practice your combo and get it down
pat, and your reward is...your opponent retaliates? You call that skill?
You call that fun? That's no fun! That's like a game of pool where if you
sink 4 balls in a row, your opponent is declared the winner.
congratulations
for using your skill--you lose! THAT'S FUN???? (And I know what I'm talking
about here...did you know if you LAND Morrigan's beam super, your REWARD is
that they roll AFTER BEING HIT and do an 80% combo on you? LAME!)
What YOU want, based on that statement, is a game where randomness reigns
and what you do has nothing to do with how well you do. Go play some
War (that kid's card game, remember?) or dice or something.
:there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly
unbalanced....but
:is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other
character.
Are you saying Roll can beat Chun Li? LOL.
Are you saying Lilith can take on Wolverine? LOL, LOL.
What next? Megaman beats Strider?
:have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
:MvsC......rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named
A3.
It's your fault if you play predictably and slow.
Try this: don't do the same damn thing all the time. It makes the
game much more fun! And you'll find that if you change your little
patterns, your opponent's changes too! Wow! YES...if you get out
of your lame pattern playing (you seem to be obsessed with pattern
playing) and use some skills, the game becomes that much more fun!
fred...@my-dejanews.com
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> Allow me to present a revolutionary idea into the board: why do people play
> Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
It integrates 3 different fighting systems into one. Ever say to someone "I
could totally toast your (A2) Rolento if I could only play as Chun-Li from
the SF2 series"? Well, now you can, although I'll be the first to admit that
X-ism does not equal SSF2X perfectly.
Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game
seen
> more interesting.
Well, it's worked. I saw a dramatic improvement in my game when I started
playing as X-Chun-Li versus A-Chun-Li.
>It doesn't work. The game is still horribly slow to play,
Either your arcade has the speed set low, or you just don't like it when it
takes more than 30 seconds for a fight to play out. The best battles are the
ones where you and your opponent are of equal skill. I mean, it's fun to
waste on some scrub who's only playing you because the Vs. machine has 5
tokens in line, but it's not very satisfying.
and
> just plain boring.
Hmm...ever played Dramatic or Survival Mode? Even the regular arcade game is
fun, with so many opponents and fighting styles. And for those who care (like
me), the game's story elements have improved greatly since A2 and are much
better than the "goofy" endings of Vs. games, except for the ones with Dan, of
course (Cyber-Dan! ^_^)
As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
> the hands of skilled players.
Sounds more like that other Capcom series...now which one is it? ^o^
And now the people have finally realized the
true
> potential of the all-powerful V-ism combo. I knew this was coming. It's just a
> repeat of the CC crazyness of A2.
Not true. V-ism is more like a really good version of Rose's shadow super.
CC's do not give any control over your direction and are really easy to by
accident. Another reason I am grateful for the ISMs.
After people started decimating me when I
> realized I couldn't stand up, and it was unavoidable when I was too close, I
> hated the game. I mean, why????? WHY???? Why do we need these stupid "new
combo
> systems?" They are useless.
Apparently not, if they can waste you, since you make yourself out to be an
skilled player. Hell, I give you points for even remembering SFA1; people
seem to forget about that game a lot.
The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1, the
> forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to
execute
> and added a whole new side to the game.
However, you just lost points for honor because you forgot about
Darkstalkers, which is were chains came from. Most innovations in SF games
can be traced back to a game starring a succubus.
While I'm on the subject, doggone it they should have put at least one more
Darkstalker in MvC. Like the ones that were in Puzzle Fighter (Donovan Baine,
Hsien-Ko and Felicia).
But they were avoidable. To this day I
> refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3.
Ever heard of blocking/jumping/A. countering? CC's are especially easy to
avoid.
They are just utter
> trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really new
> to give us.
But A2 is basically A1, and you seem to like A1 a lot. Anyway, A2 gave "us"
five great fighters, and the home versions got even more goodies.
> Sorry, I'd rather get my butt kicked with a punch-kick combo by Ken than by
his
> 15 shadows.
Well, they call V-ism the "advanced" mode for a reason.....^0^
> Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why do I
> like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing?
Because
> it's FUN. Yes, I said FUN. Whoa, what a new concept. Fun is what video GAMES
> are all about.
Yup, A3 is more fun than a Vs. game because the Marvel sytem is too cheesy,
what with that Air combo and ticking crap. However, Vs. Games do have very
nice music. ^_^ The only reason to choose Roll.
The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
> One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
> gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
> slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow."
It's called "skills". Why do you think Dragon Ball Z fights lasted so long?
Besides, most people tend to stay away from V-Ism, in my experience, because
of the decreased strength and loss of the Super Combos.
Now
> here's a typical MvsC match: Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li and
> use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed
Colossus
> will fuck up any pattern you have.
Dude, choosing Colossus every time *is* a pattern. Nothing worse than some
player nailing you with Colossus or any of the "rushing" helpers then
activating a long-range Super (CapCom, anyone?) and reducing you to 35%
health. Did you know that MvC never tested in Japan, only here in the US?
It shows.
You can roll out of almost anything and
> effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly.
I have to give it that. My problem is just remembering to do it; might save me
from Chun-Li's infinite next time. But I think A3 did something good by
simplifying those kinds of maneuvers. Now if A3 could only have the "easy"
supers, like Charlie's Super Somersault Kick in XSF.
So
> there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
> is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
> Can anybody tell me Hulk's 60% corner combo of doom? No? That's because I've
> only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch? Or a
> well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous? These
are
> once-in-a-lifetime things. You never know what's gonna happen when you play
> MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider. And sure you can argue
> that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live
nobody
> knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter. We all get together weekly to
> have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
> MvsC......rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named A3.
> Stop playing A3 just because it's the "newer" game and play something quality
> for a change.
>
Sounds to me like you guys just aren't bored with it yet. I understand, I
was there. Just wait, though, it'll dawn on you that having only 21
characters to chose from (or 11 if you're a Capcom purist like me ^_^) and a
really short and shallow 1-player mode (where's the story?) isn't as cool as
28 players with (mostly) individual storylines. And don't forget Dramatic
Mode!
OT: Wouldn't be cool if you could use a memory card to import a character
from a different Capcom game and play them in MvC? I would bring over Dan
and Sakura, my fave MvSF team, as well as MvSF Ken; his version of the
"Shippujinraikyaku" just sounds way cooler. Plus you could bring over
Darkstalkers, etc. ^_^
Fred Davis
psu1...@irn.pdx.edu
Say it with me: "purei-sutee-shon" ^_^
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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fred...@my-dejanews.com
Chocobo <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> For the majority of this post, you can simply replace A3 with MVC, and replace
MVC
> with A3, and it's just a post saying that you like one game over the other.
The
> games are only predictable when you play them predictably. It's only boring
when
> you make it boring. Just say that you like one game over the other, but don't
try
> to pass your opinion off as a fact. You're conveniently ignoring everything
that's
> wrong with MVC, and everything that's good about A3.
>
>
of Clinton's defense team earlier today....(not a slam)
Go Bubba go! ^_^
fred...@my-dejanews.com
"kayin/ka khiong kwok" <ka...@mpx.com.au> wrote:
>
> WhoaMoses wrote in message <19990121201635...@ng146.aol.com>...
> >Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for
> me.
>
^_^
Another thing I like about A3 is the "Guard Meter". Yes! Screw turtling! Now
you finally have to put up a fight! ^_^ Can't tell you how many I wish that
my opponent could stop blocking in a Vs. game. Of course, then
"tick"-bitches like Strider could kill every time with his
supers....grrrr....
That, and Dan's X-ism taunts can cause damage! Yah-yahooey!
kayin/ka khiong kwok
fred...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<78984o$5t5$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
<snip>
>> I play cause I'm sheep. Baaaa.... :')
>
>^_^
I gotta keep this short, there's a huge lightening strike (maybe the artist
formerly known as Prince was right), and I'm missing it!
Again, baaaa! (Please keep jokes clean. :') )
>Another thing I like about A3 is the "Guard Meter". Yes! Screw turtling!
Now
>you finally have to put up a fight! ^_^ Can't tell you how many I wish
that
>my opponent could stop blocking in a Vs. game. Of course, then
>"tick"-bitches like Strider could kill every time with his
>supers....grrrr....
A double edge sword in a way. The guard meter is a great idea. I slammed it
at first cause I thought it might disadvantage certain characters (namely
grapplers), but seeing that the length of the bar depends on the character,
then it's great. Oh yeah, is it just me or dose Strider look like a dork in
MvC. He looked much better in his platform counterparts.
>That, and Dan's X-ism taunts can cause damage! Yah-yahooey!
hehehehehe..... dadddddyyyyyyyy!!!!! :')
Now all we need is his suicider and Dan is finally complete, well not quite,
there's always the prospect of Dan getting a new taunt in which he sings a
Barbara Striesand number. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
Snoop
kayin/ka khiong kwok wrote in message <789mda$123$1...@news1.mpx.com.au>...
>I gotta keep this short, there's a huge lightening strike (maybe the artist
>formerly known as Prince was right), and I'm missing it!
>
Hey Kkk,
I'm seeing the same lightning strike too. I think it's safer if I switch
the PC off. Nah, I'd rather read these posts :)
Snoop...
robo...@my-dejanews.com
> Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
Opinion. But, I'll offer a rebuttal: -Isms are there for variety's sake.
Some people may not feel comfortable using, for instance, V-ism. But let me
present a stronger argument: don't most games have gimmicks anyway? MvC has
those helpers, which seems overtly gimmicky to me.
Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game
seen
> more interesting. It doesn't work. The game is still horribly slow to play,
and
> just plain boring.
Boring? Opinion. Slow? Where are you playing? Turbo 2 should be adequate
enough for those speed freaks out there. You must've loved playing that
ridiculous Turbo 3 on ST.
As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
> the hands of skilled players.
Again, this is true in any game.
And now the people have finally realized the
true
> potential of the all-powerful V-ism combo. I knew this was coming. It's just a
> repeat of the CC crazyness of A2. After people started decimating me when I
> realized I couldn't stand up, and it was unavoidable when I was too close, I
> hated the game. I mean, why????? WHY???? Why do we need these stupid "new
combo
> systems?" They are useless.
V-ism may be the best, but there are still ways around it. VC's don't work
like CC's. You don't have the "blowback" (quoting Tom Cannon) effect. You
don't start them w/a rh (well you can, but I thought that it was best to keep
the person in the air). There aren't 100% VC merely for standing up, IIRC.
The only real danger you have to watch out for (other than making mistakes)
is some guy jumping in on you and VC-ing thru your anti-air. But even then,
I've had people block those types of combos, even after taking a few hits
(most likely error on my part).
The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1, the
> forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to
execute
> and added a whole new side to the game. But they were avoidable.
Alpha 1 was buy far the WORST of the Alpha series. It was cool b/c it
brought the anime-style graphics and it had introduced a new combo-system.
But as time wore on, chain combos b/c utterly retarded, having it's novelty
wear off; and, graphics are merely eye candy.
Chaining took absolutely no skill to do. When I first realized how they
worked, I would purposely get hit just to roll into you and start chaining.
You wouldn't be able to jump out the way, b/c I would just be mashing short
or jab until you blocked. If you blocked my chain, I would throw. Though it
seems highly ineffective, it worked surprisingly well, since my comp
invariably made mistakes. Then, when I learned about the roll trap w/Ken, it
was over. You're dead if you block, you're dead if you don't. How fun is
that? I heard the same thing about Guy, but I never encountered a Guy player
that could prove that all the way thru (close, but not all the way). If you
tell me that you're never let Ken get inside, then you're crazy. Ken will
get in on anyone. Ken can roll into anyone. There's nothing you can do
about it. I can make you eat a 11-hitter for blocking or not blocking. And,
since the chaining was so-o-o s-l-o-w, it would take a lot to make me mess
up. The only comp Ken had was Guy. (Maybe Bison w/his two fb's, but I doubt
it.) But, I thought, and still think, that Guy needs to work harder. And,
the extra effort is not well rewarded.
To this day I
> refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just utter
> trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really new
> to give us.
A2 sucked almost as much as A1. The only saving grace was that two people
could agree not to use CC's, or let only the weaker characters use CC (i.e.
Dan, Gen, Birdie >laugh<). But, asking someone to agree to not use CC's, is
so retarded. You might as well shake on it. It's like asking someone not to
throw fb's. Even better, it's like asking someone not to >gasp< throw.
> Sorry, I'd rather get my butt kicked with a punch-kick combo by Ken than by
his
> 15 shadows.
> Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why do I
> like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing?
Because you are a scrub, plain and simple. You like watching better than
doing. Pulling off a well-timed attack that yields two or three hits and
thus giving you superior position, is too much work for you, and does not let
you enjoy the fruits of your labor. Whereas doing a 60-hit button mash, and
watching your opponent getting tossed around for doing as much work as
dialing a telephone seems to give your closed-off, ignorant, little mind some
sense of a job well done. You're a scrub b/c you can't realize that.
Because
> it's FUN. Yes, I said FUN. Whoa, what a new concept. Fun is what video GAMES
> are all about. The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
> One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
> gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
> slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow." Now
> here's a typical MvsC match: Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li and
> use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed
Colossus
> will fuck up any pattern you have. You can roll out of almost anything and
> effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly.
I ate a 50% combo for doing a Ryu super and hitting w/a Ryu super, WTF is
that? It goes to show that blindly attacking someone --to the point of
closing your eyes, and mashing buttons w/no hint of mercy or reason, only
stopping when the arcade is closed-- is a good as a strategy as planning a
well-timed attack. the biggest reason why this game sucks dick is that
position means nothing. Planning means nothing.
So
> there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
> is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
> Can anybody tell me Hulk's 60% corner combo of doom? No? That's because I've
> only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch? Or a
> well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous? These
are
> once-in-a-lifetime things.
More evidence to prove my above statement. So when we'ere plaing, and you're
playing Strider and you do the Oroborous, I play Captain America. As you're
thinking that the Oroborous is sure to hit, I randomly do a charging star
(since my eyes are closed and I've been buttong mashing for the last 5 min)
and eat your Oroborous for lunch. It's bound to work. Note: sarcasm.
You never know what's gonna happen when you play
> MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider. And sure you can argue
> that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live
nobody
> knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter.
You never know what's going to happen, b/c there's no predictability, assuming
your statements are true, which you already have graciously submitted.
And, when you state that infinities don't matter b/c you're the only one who
knows them? What kind of argument is that? That's pure garbage. So you're
saying that even though you know infinities, you still lose, you still find
comp amongst the other arcade go-ers? WTF, you should never lose. If you
choose to w/hold your use of the infinities, why? So that you can rely on
your other skills? That means you and your opponent have implicitly agreed
not to infinite each other. You might as well agree not to throw. What
happens when you encounter someone who knows infinities? What happens when
you feel that you decide not to lose and infinite your way to a win? Then,
your comp stops playing; I assume, otherwise, why would you never pull them
out in the first place? If this is true, then you must receive great joy in
beating on people, not for the game. The game is only a vehicle in which you
can enjoy some sort of supremacy in your otherwise, small, mundane life. If
not, don't tell me you still lose despite your infinite knowledge. Then, you
are a bigger scrub than I thought (which is saying a lot).
We all get together weekly to
> have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
> MvsC......rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named A3.
> Stop playing A3 just because it's the "newer" game and play something quality
> for a change.
The only thing you've demonstrated is that your knowledge in A3, A1, and MvC
is severely lacking. You have not shown any type of quality in any game
you've mentioned. On the other hand, you've also demonstrated, quite well,
that you and your comp are a bunch of scrubs (well, I shouldn't speak for
your comp).
Dale
falco...@my-dejanews.com
robo...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
I almost feel bad replying to this post, since it makes a few arguments that I
agree with (mostly reasons why Alpha 3 is a good game). Still, I had at least
one major problem with the post.
<snip decent responses to questions about gimmicks, VCs, chains, etc.>
> To this day I
> > refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just
utter
> > trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really
new
> > to give us.
>
> A2 sucked almost as much as A1. The only saving grace was that two people
> could agree not to use CC's, or let only the weaker characters use CC (i.e.
> Dan, Gen, Birdie >laugh<). But, asking someone to agree to not use CC's, is
> so retarded. You might as well shake on it. It's like asking someone not to
> throw fb's. Even better, it's like asking someone not to >gasp< throw.
This is where I find fault with the response. Note what he said. "I refuse
to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3." He at no point said that
he requests that the opponent not use them as well. What he says is personal
preference, and in no way resembles the "no-throw rule" comment that ensued
in your reply.
> > Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> > now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why do
I
> > like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing?
>
> Because you are a scrub, plain and simple.
Ok, I really hate it when the word "scrub" is used to describe anyone who
enjoys VS games. If a person is a scrub, it's because he hasn't learned much
of what is involved in playing a good fighting game, not because he uses a
certain character or plays a certain game. Granted, we know that he prefers
VS to A3, and dislikes customs and VCs, but that is still a bit harsh.
Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
<snip VS game dispute>
And sure you can argue
> > that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live
> nobody
> > knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter.
>
> You never know what's going to happen, b/c there's no predictability, assuming
> your statements are true, which you already have graciously submitted.
>
> And, when you state that infinities don't matter b/c you're the only one who
> knows them? What kind of argument is that? That's pure garbage. So you're
> saying that even though you know infinities, you still lose, you still find
> comp amongst the other arcade go-ers? WTF, you should never lose. If you
> choose to w/hold your use of the infinities, why? So that you can rely on
> your other skills? That means you and your opponent have implicitly agreed
> not to infinite each other. You might as well agree not to throw. What
> happens when you encounter someone who knows infinities? What happens when
> you feel that you decide not to lose and infinite your way to a win? Then,
> your comp stops playing; I assume, otherwise, why would you never pull them
> out in the first place? If this is true, then you must receive great joy in
> beating on people, not for the game. The game is only a vehicle in which you
> can enjoy some sort of supremacy in your otherwise, small, mundane life. If
> not, don't tell me you still lose despite your infinite knowledge. Then, you
> are a bigger scrub than I thought (which is saying a lot).
Ok, this is more of what I complained about originally. He doesn't like to
use infinites. He claims that he can, but he doesn't. As a result, you go
into more of the "no-throw" argument and claim that he isn't much of a player
(roughly speaking).
Once again, he has never made a comment about telling the other person not to
use infinites. He just doesn't like to. Contrary to popular belief, a
person in a VS game is capable of beating an opponent who uses infinites
without using them himself. A person can also win at Alpha 3 without
throwing, but that doesn't mean that he's a "no-throw rule" type.
Your argument sounds a bit like one I've heard many times. Why do people play
as Dan? Dan is one of the worst characters in SF history. Why not play as
Akuma, Ryu, or Ken, who play the same, but have considerably better moves,
fireballs that travel, and uppercuts with priority?
People have various reasons for using Dan. I like him because he's annoying,
but more because he's fun and challenging to win with. The fact that I use
Dan doesn't mean that I'm a person who screams out "Don't play with Akuma,
Ryu, or Ken; they're cheap".
As it was said in most replies to his post, the idea behind isms in Alpha 3 is
so that people can fight in the style of their choosing. He doesn't like VCs.
So be it. He can pick A-ism or X-ism if he chooses. It's one of the reasons
isms were created. You don't immediately say that since the best players use
V-ism, he is a no-skill loser. I don't use V-ism, and just look at me...ok,
maybe not. :)
If a person wishes not to throw, or infinite, or CC, or whatever, let them do
what they want. It's only a problem when they demand the same of you. But,
since he hasn't done so, just leave him alone.
> The only thing you've demonstrated is that your knowledge in A3, A1, and MvC
> is severely lacking. You have not shown any type of quality in any game
> you've mentioned. On the other hand, you've also demonstrated, quite well,
> that you and your comp are a bunch of scrubs (well, I shouldn't speak for
> your comp).
Even if he is a scrub (he might be, I don't know), that doesn't mean that he's
not entitled to an opinion.
FalconPain
Annoying "Dan and the Third Row" player
Don't try to keep away, or I will taunt you and insult you.
Don't try to come close, or I will taunt you and hit you.
Don't try to super me, or I will rolling taunt you and avoid it.
Don't try to taunt me, I have a full super meter from all that taunting.
Kao Megura
The best Alpha in my opinion was A1. Yes, A1, the
> forgotten one. Why? Capcom introduced chain combos. These took skill to
execute
> and added a whole new side to the game. But they were avoidable.
I'll always be an A1 fan, but for the most part chain combos were just ways
to land excessive damage, and it gave characters like ARK and Guy big
advantages over those with less chains like Birdie and M.Bison. And they
didn't need skill to execute at all; it was a simple manner of rote
memorization of what button to press next and when to press it.
At least with CCs and VCs, you could get knocked out in one hit, compounded
further by the fact that you couldn't block.
> Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done it
> now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why do I
> like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing?
Because
> it's FUN. Yes, I said FUN. Whoa, what a new concept. Fun is what video GAMES
> are all about. The VS. games aren't like A3. Here's a typical A3 match:" Wow.
> One guy is gonna use Rolento and use the Rolento pattern, and another guy's
> gonna use Ken and use the Ken pattern, and they're gonna duke it out in super
> slow-mo until one of them messes up and eats a 50% V-ism combo. Wow." Now
> here's a typical MvsC match:
Wow. One guy is gonna use Strider and Chun-Li and
> use the typical patters, etc. But what about the helpers? A well-timed
> Colossus
> will fuck up any pattern you have. You can roll out of almost anything and
> effectively retaliate even if the opponent executes a combo correctly. So
> there's always excitement and fun. Sure the game is horribly unbalanced....but
> is it? Any character, if played effectively, can defeat any other character.
(snipped)
What kind of argument is this? I can roll and counter in A3 too. I can
"f**k up" people's patterns with my own attacks, too, as you put it. And
A3 is just as imbalanced as MvC. Somehow this post has become another
"Colossus is good" post, which is just tiring by now. I've never seen
anyone who used Colossus who wasn't a scrub, so please explain to me where
I'm wrong in my evaluation your "typical MvsC match".
> Can anybody tell me Hulk's 60% corner combo of doom? No? That's because I've
> only gotten it to work once. How about Gief's zany teleport punch?
Uh, why don't you share this stuff, then? If you're touting some strange
glitch (re: Zangief) as a feature, then you need to rethink your argument.
Or a
> well-timed super charging star totally eating up Strider's Oroborous?
These are
> once-in-a-lifetime things. You never know what's gonna happen when you play
> MvsC cuz the game just has so many factors to consider.
And why can't you say the same thing about A3? It's not as if every game
of A3 I've played was a stale, cut-and-paste match or something.
And sure you can argue
> that there's infinites. Well here's what I say: SCREW THEM. Where I live
nobody
> knows them but me, so it doesn't really matter.
And yet you complain about 50% V-ism combos. Really.
We all get together weekly to
> have a hell of a lot of fun playing an unpredictable game called
> MvsC......rather than an utterly predictable, slow, and boring one named A3.
> Stop playing A3 just because it's the "newer" game and play something quality
> for a change.
To be perfectly honest, I think you prefer the VS games because they're
easier to learn and don't want to play SFA2 or SFA3 because it requires a
bit more skill. How you can argue against Custom Combos are the like, then
applaud infinites, is completely beyond me. At least someone can screw up
on a CC, with an infinite it's the same four button presses over and over,
for the most part.
I, too, am a Versus fan, but to say that it's superior to A3 is just nonsense.
= Kao Megura =
"I don't like Dan at all. I've come to the conclusion that
I really despise the shotos, even half-assed ones." - Ultima
Let Dan humiliate you at: i.am/kao
Tell me why Dan rules at: kmegura (at) hotmail (dot) com
Jenn Dolari
>Alpha3? Allow me to explain. I hate the game. Why? It's too gimmicky for me.
>more interesting.
Actually, it's a gimmick that works for me. X-ism allows me to play like I
used to, and non of this wiggle and button mash crap that the VS series
became, and Alpha (to a much lesser extent). That singlehandedly made A3 a
fighter for me.
Jenn
[I spent time LEARNING the Dragon Punch on SF2T, dammit....] :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHUN LI - SHEEVA - KITANA - SONYA - TANYA - MILEENA - SINDEL - CAMMY
ROSE Strength. Beauty. We have no equal in the kingdom. SAKURA
IBUKI dol...@dragondata.com ELENA
JADE http://www.dragondata.com/~dolari ATHENA
HSIEN KO Not all warriors are called "Sir!" QUEEN BEE
KING - MORRIGAN - FELICIA - LILLITH - BABY BONNIE HOOD - MAI
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BOB13
falco...@my-dejanews.com wrote:<Snip>
> Ok, I really hate it when the word "scrub" is used to describe anyone who
> enjoys VS games. If a person is a scrub, it's because he hasn't learned much
> of what is involved in playing a good fighting game, not because he uses a
> certain character or plays a certain game. Granted, we know that he prefers
> VS to A3, and dislikes customs and VCs, but that is still a bit harsh.
>
> Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
Let me give a general rundown. First nowadays most people just drop the word scrub
as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them. But an actual scrub can
be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached a stunt in there growth. They
simply refuse to learn anymore about the particular game thinking that there
knowledge about the game is the end all. Not that they can't learn more about the
game but they just simply refuse to learn anymore. An example of this would be a
Versus game player. He might be the best in the arcade and racks up huge win
streaks. But he only uses one or two patterns with his chosen team. He never picks a
different team, never does any thing new with the old one. But he does his
particular pattern so well that he wins. Notice how this player refuses to learn
anything new? That's the trademark of a scrub. Ryu and Ken players who still rely on
the fireball trap are another example of scrubs. They might have been the shit in HF
but refuse to learn the intricacies of the new games and still try to do the
fireball trap. Then when they get worked because of the new system they curse the
machine plop in two more quarters and TRY the fireball trap AGAIN. And AGAIN. And
AGAIN. Notice a trend? Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you
don't have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
To Identify a scrub on the news group there are several tell tale signs:
1. Out of nowhere, for no apparent reason they'll post something about how one game
(for some reason it's always a versus or one the SF3 games. Never an old school
game. Gotta be something flashy) is the shit and all other games suck. They don't
back it up. Anybody who disagrees with them are at least automatically called a
scrub or some thing about there mom by the original poster and flame war insues.
2. Ghetto speak. They can't type in regular words but have to use stupid
abbreviations. ex.: 'Check dis out. I have dis tight combo 4 <insert versus
character>. First U <insert chain> den <insert super>. It's ez when you git the
timing.' or ' Ya ain't nothin but a low life nigga.' Asian font is optional.
3. They never provide any knowledge of any SF games to any discussion. They always
make the assumption that the other poster has to prove his or her point before they
have to prove theirs.
4. Even in the face of overwhelming facts will never admit he's wrong. I remember a
thread where some fool said he regularly air-blocked Karin's low fierce in A3 and
wouldn't admit he was wrong even though like five people called him on the fact that
you can't airblock Karin's low fierce.
5. Will resort to name calling if losing an arguement.
6. Will liberally use circle logic. i.e. 'I'm smarter than you because I'm right and
I'm right because I'm smarter than you."
7. Will often name drop even if they have never played with so called dropped name.
8. Will qoute often but from the wrong place and often proving the other point.
Having one of these qualities doesn't automatically signal a scrub. But the more
they have the more likely they are a scrub. Any more then three of these qualities
is almost a 95% chance that they are a scrub and are talking out of there ass.
>
>
> <snip VS game dispute>
dpan...@kentlaw.edu
falco...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <78a7tp$11r$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> robo...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> I almost feel bad replying to this post, since it makes a few arguments that I
> agree with (mostly reasons why Alpha 3 is a good game). Still, I had at least
> one major problem with the post.
Thanks.
> <snip decent responses to questions about gimmicks, VCs, chains, etc.>
>
> > To this day I
> > > refuse to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3. They are just
> utter
> > > trash added to appease us for an otherwise boring game with nothing really
> new
> > > to give us.
> >
> > A2 sucked almost as much as A1. The only saving grace was that two people
> > could agree not to use CC's, or let only the weaker characters use CC (i.e.
> > Dan, Gen, Birdie >laugh<). But, asking someone to agree to not use CC's, is
> > so retarded. You might as well shake on it. It's like asking someone not
to
> > throw fb's. Even better, it's like asking someone not to >gasp< throw.
>
> This is where I find fault with the response. Note what he said. "I refuse
> to use Custom Combos in A2 and V-ism combos in A3." He at no point said that
> he requests that the opponent not use them as well. What he says is personal
> preference, and in no way resembles the "no-throw rule" comment that ensued
> in your reply.
I think it does. He prefers not to use CC's fine. You can replace "CC" w/
"throw" and it would still be a preference. Not...oh, I see what you're
saying. I was reading in on an implicit argument. Invariably, most people
don't CC or throw, b/c they don't like it, AND they expect opponents to
comply. I make assumptions like that b/c my comp refuses to throw (everyone;
and, yes, I still do throw them).
> > > Now allow me to name some games I like: the VS. series. Oh no, I've done
it
> > > now! Am I completely mad?????? Not really. Am I a scrub? Hardly. Then why
do
> I
> > > like these games with infinites and 60% plus damage and button-mashing?
> >
> > Because you are a scrub, plain and simple.
>
> Ok, I really hate it when the word "scrub" is used to describe anyone who
> enjoys VS games. If a person is a scrub, it's because he hasn't learned much
> of what is involved in playing a good fighting game, not because he uses a
> certain character or plays a certain game. Granted, we know that he prefers
> VS to A3, and dislikes customs and VCs, but that is still a bit harsh.
>
> Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
I tried to show that he is a scrub not only b/c he likes VS games (and A1 for
that matter) but b/c he does not realize the faults of the game. In a way he
does, but he also embraces those faults as an eventual game balance. He
believes that the pure randomness equalizes everything.
Also, I'm not the only one who called him a scrub; and, someone should define
what a scrub is
Again, I make these assumptions b/c I play w/no-throwers. Fine. He can flame
me all he wants.
> Your argument sounds a bit like one I've heard many times. Why do people play
> as Dan? Dan is one of the worst characters in SF history. Why not play as
> Akuma, Ryu, or Ken, who play the same, but have considerably better moves,
> fireballs that travel, and uppercuts with priority?
Surprisingly, I play Dan, a lot. And, it's not b/c I play him b/c my comp
sucks. I still lose w/Dan, a lot. I like playing Dan. But, my knowledge of
VS is limited since I refuse to put even a penny in the slot; hell, I might
not even take a free second off someone since I have so much distaste for it.
It just seems that you need infinities to win, or rely on some randomness in
attacking (i.e. button mashing).
[snip] Dale
Ultima
> falco...@my-dejanews.com wrote:<Snip>
> > Ok, I really hate it when the word "scrub" is used to describe anyone who enjoys VS games. If a person is a scrub, it's because he hasn't learned much of what is involved in playing a good fighting game, not because he uses a certain character or plays a certain game. Granted, we know that he prefers VS to A3, and dislikes customs and VCs, but that is still a bit harsh.
I agree with this, BTW.
> > Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
> Let me give a general rundown. First nowadays most people just drop the word scrub as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them.
Also, these days "scrub" seems to mean "not as good as me". >:(
> But an actual scrub can be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached a stunt in there growth. They simply refuse to learn anymore about the particular game thinking that there knowledge about the game is the end all. Not that they can't learn more about the game but they just simply refuse to learn anymore.
Right.
> An example of this would be a Versus game player. He might be the best in the arcade and racks up huge win streaks. But he only uses one or two patterns with his chosen team. He never picks a different team, never does any thing new with the old one. But he does his particular pattern so well that he wins. Notice how this player refuses to learn anything new? That's the trademark of a scrub.
Actually, I disagree with this. To me, "scrub" is more of a mentality
than a regards to one's skill level. Because one can do the above and
not be a scrub (at that game anyway).
(I know I'm going to get in trouble for this): MvC is the only arcade
game around here where I can get 2 player comp. The only team I use is
Strider/Zangief. They, along with Captain Commando, are the ONLY
characters in the game I particularly like (yes, I actually like the
shin pixie :). I really don't like MvC at all, so I spend most of my
time abusing all there is to abuse with those two characters and beat
the hell out of most of my opponents without mercy. I don't think I know
all there is to the game, and I know I could easily pick up other
characters. But I don't feel to, plain and simple. I don't thikn MvC is
worth my time to learn more than two or three characters. It's nearly
the same garbage no matter who you play anyway. >:(
> Ryu and Ken players who still rely on the fireball trap are another example of scrubs. They might have been the shit in HF but refuse to learn the intricacies of the new games and still try to do the
> fireball trap. Then when they get worked because of the new system they curse the machine plop in two more quarters and TRY the fireball trap AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. Notice a trend?
These are a specific type of scrub I call RyuKen Men. They've been
playing with Ken (usually more so than Ryu, but they're interchangable
as far as these players are concerned) since CE and the only reason they
did so was because of his wide-arc fierce DP and his ToD, and they play
him in EVERY SINGLE SF trying to use the EXACT same tactics, not
realising that said tactics stopped working years ago. Pisses me off
really, since 90% of all ARK players I've come across are like this >:(
> Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you don't have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
No, you don't. But using/abusing what works doesn't necessarily equal
scrub either.
> To Identify a scrub on the news group there are several tell tale signs:
> 1. Out of nowhere, for no apparent reason they'll post something about how one game (for some reason it's always a versus or one the SF3 games. Never an old school game. Gotta be something flashy) is the shit and all other games suck. They don't back it up. Anybody who disagrees with them are at least automatically called a scrub or some thing about there mom by the original poster and flame war insues.
Not necessarily. Nor is this a true sign of a real scrub. Any one can
claim that any game (even the old ones) is the shit and all other games
suck. Hell, a RyuKen scrub can claim that SF2 is the shit and all other
games suck because their FB-DP patterns don't work anymore!
> 2. Ghetto speak. They can't type in regular words but have to use stupid abbreviations. ex.: 'Check dis out. I have dis tight combo 4 <insert versus character>. First U <insert chain> den <insert super>. It's ez when you git the timing.' or ' Ya ain't nothin but a low life nigga.' Asian font is optional.
This is just an annoying trait. Not a real indicator of a scrub.
> 3. They never provide any knowledge of any SF games to any discussion. They always make the assumption that the other poster has to prove his or her point before they have to prove theirs.
Heh. I think This can apply to anyone at any given time. :)
> 4. Even in the face of overwhelming facts will never admit he's wrong. I remember a thread where some fool said he regularly air-blocked Karin's low fierce in A3 and wouldn't admit he was wrong even though like five people called him on the fact that you can't airblock Karin's low fierce.
Stubborness is usually a good sign of scrubbiness, yes. How else can a
player use the same tactics for the past 8 years when they stopped for
the past 5? ^_^
> 5. Will resort to name calling if losing an arguement.
What if they resor to name calling if they're winning? (which applies to
nearly everyone on this ng). Not an indicator of a scrub, just an
annoying (IMO) trait.
> 6. Will liberally use circle logic. i.e. 'I'm smarter than you because I'm right and I'm right because I'm smarter than you."
Hey! Doesn't Milo say things like that? ;)
> 7. Will often name drop even if they have never played with so called dropped name.
Isn't this the so-called "Allen Klein Defense"? (somebody correct me if
I'm wrong :)
> 8. Will qoute often but from the wrong place and often proving the other point.
This is a sign of stupidity or possibly a genuine mistake. Not
necessarily a sign of scrubbiness.
> Having one of these qualities doesn't automatically signal a scrub. But the more they have the more likely they are a scrub.
Ah, you should have said that eariler :)
> Any more then three of these qualities is almost a 95% chance that they are a scrub and are talking out of there ass.
Shouldn't that be "and/or talking out of their ass"? Cause one needn't
be a true scrub to be talking out of one's ass. Highly likely, but not
necessarily true ^_^
--
Ultima
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade"
BOB13
kayin/ka khiong kwok wrote:
> BOB13 wrote in message <36A8E4C8...@earthlink.net>...
> <snip>
>
> Interesting post. I thought a scrub was a plant (okay bad joke - boooo!). I
> thought a scrub was a tick move (usually a low short) followed by a super
> move. So I guess the definition evolved into something more.
Nver heard of that one. Where do you live?
>
>
> >Let me give a general rundown. First nowadays most people just drop the
> word scrub
> >as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them.
>
> Too true.
>
> > But an actual scrub can be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached
> a stunt in >there growth.
>
> Errrr..... doesn't this encompass all Tekken players? (just kidding!)
Some but not all. I still play tekken regularly. In fact I'd say I'm on a mid
tournament skill level. I wouldn't win them but I'd make a decent showing. But
if I played someone three months ago who was at the skill level I'm at now I'd
probably develop a complex. It would be the second worst beatdown of my life. It
just amazes me how learning a few little things can change your game so much.
But this is an SF newsgroup and I should stop now.
> When
> you put it that well, the definition does make a bit of sense, since you've
> basically describe the stereotypical ARK player who'll play only ARK
> characters, and they'll play them in exactly the same ways regardless of the
> game. But it's not just restricted to ARK characters. That's more or less
> what you're implying right?
ARK shotoscrubs would be the more common easier to spot examples.
>
>
> <snip - sorry, please refer to original post>
>
> >2. Ghetto speak. They can't type in regular words but have to use stupid
> >abbreviations. ex.: 'Check dis out. I have dis tight combo 4 <insert versus
> >character>. First U <insert chain> den <insert super>. It's ez when you git
> the
> >timing.' or ' Ya ain't nothin but a low life nigga.' Asian font is
> optional.
>
> I thought that was just a personalty trait.
It is but excessive use of it usually, for some reason, will coincide with any
of the other scrub traits.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> >5. Will resort to name calling if losing an arguement.
>
> Don't we all do that at some stage of our lives? :')
I should append that with 'often'.
>
>
> >6. Will liberally use circle logic. i.e. 'I'm smarter than you because I'm
> right and
> >I'm right because I'm smarter than you."
>
> I thought that's rock logic. Okay I'm trying to show off here (and failing)
> cause I'm reading a by book Dr de Bono. I've had for a month and only got
> through 25% of the thing. :')
It could be rock logic but I know it as circle logic.
>
>
> >7. Will often name drop even if they have never played with so called
> dropped name.
>
> I thought only girls do that. (I'm gonna get it now).
No comment.
>
>
> >Having one of these qualities doesn't automatically signal a scrub. But the
> more
> >they have the more likely they are a scrub. Any more then three of these
> qualities
> >is almost a 95% chance that they are a scrub and are talking out of there
> ass.
>
> That's pretty good. How'd you come up with these observations?
By lurking for a long ass time. :)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ka.
>
> === A fight I liked to see... ===
> Blanka vs. Pikachu. My bet's on Pikachu. :')
How could you not bet on Jimmy? That's just blasphemy!
BOB13
Ultima wrote:
Well It depends. Do you only use one or two patterns to beat the crap out of your opponent? Or do you, as you put it, abuse what there is to abuse with your two characters. This including everything new thats posted to the NG and try it out. Do you look for something new to beat the crap out of your opponent with your chosen character? Then your probably not a scrub in MvC context. But if you stick to your
guns then, I'd hate to say this, your probably a scrub. At least in a MvC context.
>
>
> > Ryu and Ken players who still rely on the fireball trap are another example of scrubs. They might have been the shit in HF but refuse to learn the intricacies of the new games and still try to do the
> > fireball trap. Then when they get worked because of the new system they curse the machine plop in two more quarters and TRY the fireball trap AGAIN. And AGAIN. And AGAIN. Notice a trend?
>
> These are a specific type of scrub I call RyuKen Men. They've been
> playing with Ken (usually more so than Ryu, but they're interchangable
> as far as these players are concerned) since CE and the only reason they
> did so was because of his wide-arc fierce DP and his ToD, and they play
> him in EVERY SINGLE SF trying to use the EXACT same tactics, not
> realising that said tactics stopped working years ago. Pisses me off
> really, since 90% of all ARK players I've come across are like this >:(
These are the scrubs I hate most. Even more then life time members of the button mashers club. But it's always fun to give them a beatdown with Birdie. It's especially entertaining when they keep chucking fireballs from across the screem even though I have a super. Stupid asses.
>
>
> > Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you don't have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
>
> No, you don't. But using/abusing what works doesn't necessarily equal
> scrub either.
True. But when they only abuse what works and refuse to learn anything else in the game where there is still stuff to learn is a sign of a scrub.
>
>
> > To Identify a scrub on the news group there are several tell tale signs:
>
> > 1. Out of nowhere, for no apparent reason they'll post something about how one game (for some reason it's always a versus or one the SF3 games. Never an old school game. Gotta be something flashy) is the shit and all other games suck. They don't back it up. Anybody who disagrees with them are at least automatically called a scrub or some thing about there mom by the original poster and flame war insues.
>
> Not necessarily. Nor is this a true sign of a real scrub. Any one can
> claim that any game (even the old ones) is the shit and all other games
> suck. Hell, a RyuKen scrub can claim that SF2 is the shit and all other
> games suck because their FB-DP patterns don't work anymore!
I should emphasize the out of nowhere part. It's not the think that one game is better but the fact out of nowhere they declare a game the best ever.
>
>
> > 2. Ghetto speak. They can't type in regular words but have to use stupid abbreviations. ex.: 'Check dis out. I have dis tight combo 4 <insert versus character>. First U <insert chain> den <insert super>. It's ez when you git the timing.' or ' Ya ain't nothin but a low life nigga.' Asian font is optional.
>
> This is just an annoying trait. Not a real indicator of a scrub.
Yeah but it's an annoying trait that is common among scrubs. Remember we're(or at least I am) just stereotyping scrubs here.
>
>
> > 3. They never provide any knowledge of any SF games to any discussion. They always make the assumption that the other poster has to prove his or her point before they have to prove theirs.
>
> Heh. I think This can apply to anyone at any given time. :)
>
> > 4. Even in the face of overwhelming facts will never admit he's wrong. I remember a thread where some fool said he regularly air-blocked Karin's low fierce in A3 and wouldn't admit he was wrong even though like five people called him on the fact that you can't airblock Karin's low fierce.
>
> Stubborness is usually a good sign of scrubbiness, yes. How else can a
> player use the same tactics for the past 8 years when they stopped for
> the past 5? ^_^
Damn straight!
>
>
> > 5. Will resort to name calling if losing an arguement.
>
> What if they resor to name calling if they're winning? (which applies to
> nearly everyone on this ng).
Trash talk.
> Not an indicator of a scrub, just an
> annoying (IMO) trait.
I should append that with 'often'.
>
>
> > 6. Will liberally use circle logic. i.e. 'I'm smarter than you because I'm right and I'm right because I'm smarter than you."
>
> Hey! Doesn't Milo say things like that? ;)
No comment. =P
>
>
> > 7. Will often name drop even if they have never played with so called dropped name.
>
> Isn't this the so-called "Allen Klein Defense"? (somebody correct me if
> I'm wrong :)
>
> > 8. Will qoute often but from the wrong place and often proving the other point.
>
> This is a sign of stupidity or possibly a genuine mistake. Not
> necessarily a sign of scrubbiness.
Keyword is often.
>
>
> > Having one of these qualities doesn't automatically signal a scrub. But the more they have the more likely they are a scrub.
>
> Ah, you should have said that eariler :)
Heh. I should label this humor too.
>
>
> > Any more then three of these qualities is almost a 95% chance that they are a scrub and are talking out of there ass.
>
> Shouldn't that be "and/or talking out of their ass"? Cause one needn't
> be a true scrub to be talking out of one's ass. Highly likely, but not
> necessarily true ^_^
Noted.
>
>
> --
> Ultima
> http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
> http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
>
> "If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
> arcade"
BOB13
- would have a .sig but is too damn lazy too come up with one.
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Interesting post. I thought a scrub was a plant (okay bad joke - boooo!). I
thought a scrub was a tick move (usually a low short) followed by a super
move. So I guess the definition evolved into something more.
>Let me give a general rundown. First nowadays most people just drop the
word scrub
>as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them.
Too true.
> But an actual scrub can be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached
a stunt in >there growth.
Errrr..... doesn't this encompass all Tekken players? (just kidding!) When
you put it that well, the definition does make a bit of sense, since you've
basically describe the stereotypical ARK player who'll play only ARK
characters, and they'll play them in exactly the same ways regardless of the
game. But it's not just restricted to ARK characters. That's more or less
what you're implying right?
<snip - sorry, please refer to original post>
>2. Ghetto speak. They can't type in regular words but have to use stupid
>abbreviations. ex.: 'Check dis out. I have dis tight combo 4 <insert versus
>character>. First U <insert chain> den <insert super>. It's ez when you git
the
>timing.' or ' Ya ain't nothin but a low life nigga.' Asian font is
optional.
I thought that was just a personalty trait.
<snip>
>5. Will resort to name calling if losing an arguement.
Don't we all do that at some stage of our lives? :')
>6. Will liberally use circle logic. i.e. 'I'm smarter than you because I'm
right and
>I'm right because I'm smarter than you."
I thought that's rock logic. Okay I'm trying to show off here (and failing)
cause I'm reading a by book Dr de Bono. I've had for a month and only got
through 25% of the thing. :')
>7. Will often name drop even if they have never played with so called
dropped name.
I thought only girls do that. (I'm gonna get it now).
>Having one of these qualities doesn't automatically signal a scrub. But the
more
>they have the more likely they are a scrub. Any more then three of these
qualities
>is almost a 95% chance that they are a scrub and are talking out of there
ass.
That's pretty good. How'd you come up with these observations?
Cheers,
Red gouki
unlike those rediculous vs. games where your opponent is consistant with his 2
or 3 combos if your lucky.With v ism you can create many different combos to
your preference.That scrub who said sfa3 is to slow should do one thing pick v
ism and push jab+short.Don't get me wrong I like all 3 isms and don't just try
to guard break my way through a fight.If that scrub also has a problem with
vc's because of the guard meter maybe he doesn't have the skill to get away or
get out of a vc.
Peace to all the real sf players out there!
I
>
>:Why the need for -isms? Because it's an attempt by Capcom to make the game
>seen
>:more interesting. It doesn't work.
>
>Isms? A gimmick? So it's a gimmick to say, "ok, you can choose how you want
>to fight, and we're gonna give you advantages and disadvantages
>accordingly?"
>
>Every single fighting game which has more than one character (namely, all
>of them) is therefore using the same "gimmick." Alpha 3 takes the multiple-
>fighting-style idea and extends it without needing to create hundreds and
>of characters simply by using the "isms." Damn good idea, in my opinion.
Read: It is a good idea to use a "gimmick".
gimmick (gim'ik) - an attention-getting device or feature, typically superficial,
designed to promote the success of a product.
--
I...@I.COM
e-mail: invin...@w3.to
http://w3.to/invincible
I
>> Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
>
>Let me give a general rundown. First nowadays most people just drop the word scrub
>as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them. But an actual scrub can
>be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached a stunt in there growth.
This is the overall consensus of the definition of "scrub" by any practical meaning
of the word. It is a derogatory slang for a player who is apparently accussed of not
demonstrating "variety" in his game. However...
*every* player is guilty of the same offense.
This holds true especially for the combo-happy players, whom base their entire game
on setting up a memorized combo linked with a super(ie. patterns). The only difference
from a "scrub" is that they have a "variety" of patterns. Same breed.
Moral: It is arrogant and hyprocritical to call someone a "scrub".
>They simply refuse to learn anymore about the particular game thinking that there
>knowledge about the game is the end all. Not that they can't learn more about the
>game but they just simply refuse to learn anymore. An example of this would be a
>Versus game player. He might be the best in the arcade and racks up huge win
>streaks. But he only uses one or two patterns with his chosen team. He never picks a
>different team, never does any thing new with the old one. But he does his
>particular pattern so well that he wins. Notice how this player refuses to learn
>anything new? That's the trademark of a scrub.
People usually keep the same strategy if it offers continued success. If it's not
broken, why fix it? Logic.
Of course, the obvious impairment of the habitial player is knowledge. But for these
types of players, winning seems to be more important than the trivial aspects of the
game. Their methology is more of a business than an education.
>Ryu and Ken players who still rely on
>the fireball trap are another example of scrubs. They might have been the shit in HF
>but refuse to learn the intricacies of the new games and still try to do the
>fireball trap. Then when they get worked because of the new system they curse the
>machine plop in two more quarters and TRY the fireball trap AGAIN. And AGAIN. And
>AGAIN. Notice a trend? Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you
>don't have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
>
>To Identify a scrub on the news group there are several tell tale signs:
Purely arbitrary, but overall amusing. :-)
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
> whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
>
>> As always, some characters are rediculously overpowered in
>> the hands of skilled players.
>Again, this is true in any game.
There are mismatches, but not every SF has been as mismatched as
the alphas. In SF2, there wasn't a Birdie/Dan type who just gets raped
all around... Alpha 2 rankings:
1-4 Ken, Chun, Rose, Ryu
5-6 Zangief Sakura
7-15 everyone else
16-17 Dan and Gen
..
..
..
..
...99 Birdie
I remember that post =)
>V-ism may be the best, but there are still ways around it.
No there are't. Give me a technique to stop VCs. AC? No.
Reverse it? Not likely. SC? Not effective. Block? Eat GC. Blue
block? You still lose GC meter and gain little. Run away? Also nothing
gained.
>VC's don't work
>like CC's.
Yes, they're BETTER than CCs, relative to SCs. More relative
damage, faster charge, more invincibility, easier activation, more
utility.
>You don't have the "blowback" (quoting Tom Cannon) effect.
You don't need it.
>You don't start them w/a rh (well you can, but I thought that it was
>best to keep
>the person in the air). There aren't 100% VC merely for standing up, IIRC.
There are 50% VCs for blocking, 70% VCs for wiffing a poke, (lots) for
*not* wiffing a poke (VC through it). That good enough?
>The only real danger you have to watch out for (other than making mistakes)
>is some guy jumping in on you and VC-ing thru your anti-air. But even then,
>I've had people block those types of combos, even after taking a few hits
>(most likely error on my part).
VCing through your anti air and everything else you do. And no,
they can't block. Nor flip out. You're screwing up the VC. They're
real.
>well-timed attack. the biggest reason why this game sucks dick is that
>position means nothing.
Uhm.. no it isn't.
<ZONK>
--
How do you spell a-n-d?
kayin/ka khiong kwok
BOB13 wrote in message <36A97239...@earthlink.net>...
>
>Nver heard of that one. Where do you live?
Ashburton, South East of Melbourne, Victoria.
>Some but not all. I still play tekken regularly. In fact I'd say I'm on a
mid
>tournament skill level. I wouldn't win them but I'd make a decent showing.
But
>if I played someone three months ago who was at the skill level I'm at now
I'd
>probably develop a complex. It would be the second worst beatdown of my
life. It
>just amazes me how learning a few little things can change your game so
much.
>But this is an SF newsgroup and I should stop now.
No need really. An idea is easier to explore by comparison.
>ARK shotoscrubs would be the more common easier to spot examples.
Good point.
>> I thought that was just a personalty trait.
>
>It is but excessive use of it usually, for some reason, will coincide with
any
>of the other scrub traits.
You've got a point then. It's just all stereotypes.
>It could be rock logic but I know it as circle logic.
Either way it's annoying. No one ever gets anything done once that occurs.
Becomes something of an infinite loop (and in life you don't get to press
"break").
>> I thought only girls do that. (I'm gonna get it now).
>
>No comment.
C'mon, it's about time Jenn got dragged into the argument kicking and
screaming. :')
>By lurking for a long ass time. :)
Nothing wrong with that, sitting on ones butts is the tools of the trade for
great thinkers. :')
>> === A fight I liked to see... ===
>> Blanka vs. Pikachu. My bet's on Pikachu. :')
>
> How could you not bet on Jimmy? That's just blasphemy!
Well, I think Pikachu's got fleas. So that's how poor Jimmy'll lose. Also
Pikachu looks so dang cute, Blanka doesn't have a chance. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
=== A fight I liked to see... ===
Morrigan vs Kenneth Starr. It's too close to call. :')
kak...@my-dejanews.com
hehehehe.... pretty neat. Which part of Melbourne are you from?
I can't believe people actually went to the beach to get a better
look from there. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
SefirosuLB
seem, on the outside, good, but in actuality, they are just things many others
like. You have the right to opinion, but don't try to force everyone else to
think that way. Personally, I never use V-Ism, because, well, I don't like
variable combos, but others do, and if they beat me with it, well, they just
do. Then say this, "X-Ism's attacks give more damage than the other two
original Isms, that's cheap." Well, it isn't cheap at all, different Isms give
different fighting styles. Alpha 3 is a damn good quality game, it's better
than MvsC. X-Men Vs. SF is, in my opinion, the best VS game. Alpha 3 is also
unpredictable, and much faster than any VS game. So get it straight, don't make
up excuses that you hate Alpha, you actually hate it for another hidden reason
you don't want to tell.
______________________
Dan (not "Gadouken" Dan)
¯¯¯¯
<A HREF="http://i.am/guardiancloud">http://i.am/guardiancloud</a>
"You're funny, but keep it up and you'll
just piss me off." - Xenogears ~ Fei
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
André Carmona
so please excuse my ignorance.
I've carefully read the posts about ISMs, specially V-ISM.
Also, I'm not a CC fan so I may be biased about V-ISM.
Ok, my thoughts:
I sense that everybody is gearing toward V-ISM because of the power of the
combos in this mode. But I fear something: since there is only 1, may be 2
worthy Vcombos per char, isn't the game going to be a race for setting up
this Vcombo? In other words, are we becoming robots?
Other thing, why anyone ever talks about RB2 when it comes to SNK games?
Unlike RBS, this one is balanced, has a varied cast, cool music and BGs
graphics. Don't take me wrong, I also like KOF '98!! =)
I would be glad to talk about V-ISM, RB2, KOF '98 (SNK games not here of
course!).
ICQ: 23438671
Kao Megura
> > An example of this would be a Versus game player. He might be the best
in the arcade and racks up huge win streaks. But he only uses one or two
patterns with his chosen team. He never picks a different team, never does
any thing new with the old one. But he does his particular pattern so well
that he wins. Notice how this player refuses to learn anything new? That's
the trademark of a scrub.
>
> Actually, I disagree with this. To me, "scrub" is more of a mentality
> than a regards to one's skill level. Because one can do the above and
> not be a scrub (at that game anyway).
Then what exactly is the definition of a scrub? Someone who uses
overpowered characters / tactics frequently? Or ones that are regarded as
"cheap?" I mean, I throw quite liberally (much to the annoyance of others,
but that's a different story). I don't think that's particularly scrubby,
though.
>
> (I know I'm going to get in trouble for this): MvC is the only arcade
> game around here where I can get 2 player comp. The only team I use is
> Strider/Zangief. They, along with Captain Commando, are the ONLY
> characters in the game I particularly like (yes, I actually like the
> shin pixie :). I really don't like MvC at all, so I spend most of my
> time abusing all there is to abuse with those two characters and beat
> the hell out of most of my opponents without mercy. I don't think I know
> all there is to the game, and I know I could easily pick up other
> characters. But I don't feel to, plain and simple. I don't thikn MvC is
> worth my time to learn more than two or three characters. It's nearly
> the same garbage no matter who you play anyway. >:(
See, that's my big problem. You don't particularly care for the game, but
you play it anyway just for 2 player comp. Huh? Isn't that just wasting
money? You might as well at least try other characters, even if you start
off losing a lot, but you'll find the game is more enjoyable when you have
a wider variety to play with. I hated Omega Red and Megaman in those
respective Versus games and didn't play with them for the longest time.
But once I got the hang of them I really began to enjoy the game more.
> > Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you don't have
to be skill-less to be a scrub.
>
> No, you don't. But using/abusing what works doesn't necessarily equal
> scrub either.
IMHO, unless they only ever mash. That's scrubby. And the "rotate
joystick clockwise, mash all buttons" Wolvie players are scrubs, it's sad
that they really do exist.
Ultima
> > Actually, I disagree with this. To me, "scrub" is more of a mentality than a regards to one's skill level. Because one can do the above and not be a scrub (at that game anyway).
> Then what exactly is the definition of a scrub?
Perhaps I should have said "equal regards to mentality as regards to
one's skill level" :) It's part attitude, part skill (or lack thereof).
> Someone who uses overpowered characters / tactics frequently? Or ones that are regarded as "cheap?"
No and no. People of all skil levels do that. It's called "using what
works", which isn't a sign of scrubbiness, it's a sign or being boring.
:)
> I mean, I throw quite liberally (much to the annoyance of others, but that's a different story). I don't think that's particularly scrubby, though.
As far as I know, throwing has never been associated with scrubbiness.
Hell, it's usually the opposite: Total LACK of throwing has often been
associated with scrubbiness.
> > (I know I'm going to get in trouble for this): MvC is the only arcade game around here where I can get 2 player comp. The only team I use is Strider/Zangief. They, along with Captain Commando, are the ONLY
> > characters in the game I particularly like (yes, I actually like the
> > shin pixie :). I really don't like MvC at all, so I spend most of my
> > time abusing all there is to abuse with those two characters and beat the hell out of most of my opponents without mercy. I don't think I know all there is to the game, and I know I could easily pick up other
> > characters. But I don't feel to, plain and simple. I don't thikn MvC is worth my time to learn more than two or three characters. It's nearly
> > the same garbage no matter who you play anyway. >:(
> See, that's my big problem. You don't particularly care for the game, but you play it anyway just for 2 player comp. Huh? Isn't that just wasting money?
YUP! ^_^
BUt I'm addicted to the competitive thing, it seems. As long as there
are other people to beat up, I'll play. ;)
> You might as well at least try other characters, even if you start
> off losing a lot, but you'll find the game is more enjoyable when you have a wider variety to play with.
Not in this case. I mean, Strider/Z is my main team, but I can play
CapCom, Spiderman (who can't?), Ryu (again, who can't?), Hulk and
Captain America. But I don't like any of them really.
> I hated Omega Red and Megaman in those respective Versus games and didn't play with them for the longest time. But once I got the hang of them I really began to enjoy the game more.
I can play other characters. I still don't like the game. :\
> > > Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you don't have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
> > No, you don't. But using/abusing what works doesn't necessarily equal scrub either.
> IMHO, unless they only ever mash. That's scrubby. And the "rotate
> joystick clockwise, mash all buttons" Wolvie players are scrubs, it's sad that they really do exist.
Yeah, that's really sad. It's also annoying whenever I tell someone that
there are very few actual mash supers, and I point which ones are, yet
they mash on every single super they do.. >:(
Rylan Hilman
>
> >Yeah, that's really sad. It's also annoying whenever I tell someone that
> >there are very few actual mash supers, and I point which ones are, yet
> >they mash on every single super they do.. >:(
> >
> say that rotating the joystick continuously during the FAB doesn't do
> anything.... When it does dammit!
>
Is there any proof at all that damage goes up any if you mash
non-obviously-
masher supers? I used to play a guy around here who would mash like
crazy
during the Shichisei...
My observations have been: If mashing doesn't produce a VISIBLE
result,
such as add more hits or change appearance, it's not a mash super. For
instance, mashing a Shoryureppa does absolutely nothing to increase the
number of hits, flames, etc. But mashing a Senretsu Kyaku causes a
substantial difference: up to 30 hits instead of 15. Weapon X is one of
the common scrub's favorite supers to mash, even though it's a pure and
simple autocombo with a fixed number of hits.
Anyway, what mashes and what doesn't, as far as I can tell:
Mashes: Senretsu Kyaku, Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee), Hyper
MegaMan/Roll, Beat Plane(duh), Legion, Ouroborous(heh), Wolvy's
Turbo Mode Super(heh), and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick
ringing, not button mashing).
Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big
Bang Laser, Captain Sword, Blodia Vulcan, Blodia
Punch, War Destroyer, Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
Hazan Tenshou Kyaku.
Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s), Shippu Jinrai
Kyaku, Darkness Illusion, Silhouette Blade, Captain Storm,
Ragnarok, Crawler Assault, Maximum Spider, Ultimate Web
Throw, Great Cyclone, Final Justice, Hyper Stars +
Stripes,
Hyper Charging Star, Venom Web, Death Bite, Gamma Crush,
Gamma Wave, Gamma Quake, Royal Flush, Cajun Explosion,
Berzerker Barrage X, Weapon X, Fatal Claw, Shun Goku
Satsu,
and Final Mission.
A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to
connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being
shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the
buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit
Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
sometimes.
--
Rylan H--The LloydMall Solution:
They use Chun-Li/Ryu/Strider/Wolverine/Spider-Man?
Go home, study the writings of Mike Z, Viscant, and Onaje,
return with Jin/Zangief and lay down Indiscriminate Justice.
Lose anyway? Bah...oh well, there's still SFA3: Dan forever!
Ultima
>
> sCruB wrote:
[SLASH]
> Is there any proof at all that damage goes up any if you mash
> non-obviously- masher supers? I used to play a guy around here who would mash like crazy during the Shichisei...
No. You either get more hits (hence more damage), or you don't. The
non-obviously mash supers are just that: non-mash supers.
[snip]
> Anyway, what mashes and what doesn't, as far as I can tell:
> Mashes:
> Senretsu Kyaku,
Yes.
> Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee),
No.
> Hyper MegaMan/Roll,
No.
> Beat Plane(duh), Legion, Ouroborous(heh),
Yes.
> Wolvy's Turbo Mode Super(heh),
Technically it's not a mash super, but you can mash in it to do stuff..
:\
> and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing).
Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB
you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red
whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
> Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
> Captain Sword,
This is a mash, strangely enough. But a slight one. You get 10 hits with
mash, 6-8 hits without (only when it hits; mashing will do nothing to an
opponent who blocks it). I haven't not mashed this super since I first
played CapCom, and I was told this early on and it seemed to be correct.
May have to double-check this too.
> Blodia Vulcan,
This is a definite masher.
> Blodia Punch, War Destroyer,
Nope and nope.
> Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
> Hazan Tenshou Kyaku.
No.
> Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s), Shippu Jinrai
Kyaku, Darkness Illusion, Silhouette Blade, Captain Storm,
Ragnarok, Crawler Assault, Maximum Spider,
Right.
> Ultimate Web Throw,
A note about this super: By habit, the players here ring the joystick
during this super a la Z's FAB. I'm not sure if it really does more
damage, but we've become accustomed to it since it works for his regular
web throw.
> Great Cyclone, Final Justice, Hyper Stars + Stripes, Hyper Charging Star, Venom Web, Death Bite, Gamma Crush, Gamma Wave, Gamma Quake, Royal Flush, Cajun Explosion, Berzerker Barrage X, Weapon X, Fatal Claw, Shun Goku
> Satsu, and Final Mission.
Yup. All non-mashers.
> A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to
> connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
NOt in the eyes of most of the players here. They seem to think that
either a) they do get mroe hits, despite what I tell them, or b) it's
more satisfying somehow to mash during them. I don't know... -_-
> ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> sometimes.
*Shudders* Don't remind me... >:(
Rylan Hilman
>
> Rylan Hilman wrote:
> >
> > sCruB wrote:
>
> [SLASH]
>
> > Is there any proof at all that damage goes up any if you mash
> > non-obviously- masher supers? I used to play a guy around here who would mash like crazy during the Shichisei...
>
> No. You either get more hits (hence more damage), or you don't. The
> non-obviously mash supers are just that: non-mash supers.
>
> [snip]
>
> > Anyway, what mashes and what doesn't, as far as I can tell:
>
> > Mashes:
>
>
> No.
Actually, I dunno if this was in the earlier vs. games only, but it
always
seemed to do 3-4 more hits if you mashed it. I'll probably have to go
test
this, but towards the end of the super, it seems to hit faster or
something...
> > Hyper MegaMan/Roll,
>
> No.
Watch the animals during the Hyper Roll: if you don't mash, they come
out
rather sporatically, but if you mash, it's almost a solid wall. They do
zero
block damage, though, so...and I don't know if the same is for Megaman,
since I only play Roll, but I'd guess it would be.
> > and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing).
>
> Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB
> you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red
> whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
Nope, I do a fair amount of UFABs, and it has the same ringing
properties
as the FAB.
> > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
> Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
>
> None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
What about Mega Optic Blast, though? That one was QUITE the masher...
> > Captain Sword,
>
> This is a mash, strangely enough. But a slight one. You get 10 hits with
> mash, 6-8 hits without (only when it hits; mashing will do nothing to an
> opponent who blocks it). I haven't not mashed this super since I first
> played CapCom, and I was told this early on and it seemed to be correct.
> May have to double-check this too.
Does it also depend on opponent's location? I.e. just launched as
opposed
to riding across the screen with Colossus/Psylocke?
> > Blodia Vulcan,
>
> This is a definite masher.
I'm not sure on this, though...it's not like any other projectile/beam
super in the game. If you do it on your opponent's Team Beating, it'll
only
hit one and leave the other alone, like an autocombo super...
> > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
>
> The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
Offtopic, but I've gotten up to 20 hits with Cammy's upside-down
Shinryuken at Level ONE. MAN does that thing ever mash...
> > Hazan Tenshou Kyaku.
>
> No.
>
> > Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s), Shippu Jinrai
> Kyaku, Darkness Illusion, Silhouette Blade, Captain Storm,
> Ragnarok, Crawler Assault, Maximum Spider,
>
> Right.
>
> > Ultimate Web Throw,
>
> A note about this super: By habit, the players here ring the joystick
> during this super a la Z's FAB. I'm not sure if it really does more
> damage, but we've become accustomed to it since it works for his regular
> web throw.
>
> > Great Cyclone, Final Justice, Hyper Stars + Stripes, Hyper Charging Star, Venom Web, Death Bite, Gamma Crush, Gamma Wave, Gamma Quake, Royal Flush, Cajun Explosion, Berzerker Barrage X, Weapon X, Fatal Claw, Shun Goku
> > Satsu, and Final Mission.
>
> Yup. All non-mashers.
>
> > A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to
> > connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
>
> NOt in the eyes of most of the players here. They seem to think that
> either a) they do get mroe hits, despite what I tell them, or b) it's
> more satisfying somehow to mash during them. I don't know... -_-
The minds of vs-game scrubs are odd things... :/ Eitherways, I just
connect
with a non-comboed Shichisei(ANY scrub can aircombo it), then sit back
and
watch 'em realize they're dead, without needing to look like a total
spazzer...
This is odd, though, since I'm one of the best mashers in the arcade.
Go fig. :)
> > ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> > sometimes.
>
> *Shudders* Don't remind me... >:(
Not to mention it's one of the best chipping supers in the game...
> --
> Ultima
> http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
> http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
>
> "If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
> arcade"
--
Rylan Hilman
>
> Rylan Hilman wrote in message <36AA94...@oasis.quay.com>...
> <snip>
>
> >Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s), Shippu Jinrai
> > Kyaku, Darkness Illusion, Silhouette Blade, Captain Storm,
> > Throw, Great Cyclone, Final Justice, Hyper Stars +
> >Stripes,
> > Hyper Charging Star, Venom Web, Death Bite, Gamma Crush,
> > Gamma Wave, Gamma Quake, Royal Flush, Cajun Explosion,
> > Berzerker Barrage X, Weapon X, Fatal Claw, Shun Goku
> >Satsu,
> > and Final Mission.
>
BBX doesn't mash, you get the same number of hits no matter what you
do...
> > A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to
> >connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being
> >shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the
> >buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
>
> It's the FAB and (ashamedly) the Final Justice that I like watching.
> Sometimes, you can just watch your opponent cringe. :')
Yeah, but you generally wanna ring during the FAB unless you KNOW
they're
dead. In which case a UFAB is better to watch. :)
> > ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit
> >Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> >sometimes.
>
> But it's boring, a risk of nintendoitis and bad for the controls! :')
I dunno...I like seeing if I can get 30 hits consistently. :)
> Cheers,
>
> Ka.
>
> === A fight I liked to see... ===
> Morrigan vs Kenneth Starr. It's too close to call. :')
--
Rylan Hilman
>
> Rylan Hilman wrote:
> >
> > Ultima wrote:
> > >
> > > Rylan Hilman wrote:
>
>
> > > > Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee),
>
> > > No.
>
> > Actually, I dunno if this was in the earlier vs. games only, but it
> > always seemed to do 3-4 more hits if you mashed it. I'll probably have to go test this, but towards the end of the super, it seems to hit faster or something...
>
> hits (though not damage) depending on where the opponent is when it's
> activated. I seriously doubt mashing actually does anything with it.
Maybe...I first noticed it did a few more hits sometimes in XSF, and
just kept it ever since.
> > > > Hyper MegaMan/Roll,
>
> > > No.
>
> > Watch the animals during the Hyper Roll: if you don't mash, they come out rather sporatically, but if you mash, it's almost a solid wall.
>
> Never noticed, actually. That super does next to no damage unless they
> get hit with the electric beam part, and usually when they get hit with
> that the other animals don't hit (or maybe they hit once, I'm not
> sure). Either way, if it is a mash super, it's a useless mash super..
> :\
I dunno, how much damage do the animals do assuming you DO hit?
> > They do zero block damage, though, so...and I don't know if the same is for Megaman, since I only play Roll, but I'd guess it would be.
>
> Megaman's beam does the majority of the damage. NOt sure about the
> animals not the effect mashing has on them.
>
> Oh yeah: RUsh Drill is a mash super as well. :)
Mashing kicks turns on the rockets, right?
> > > > and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing).
>
> > > Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
>
> > Nope, I do a fair amount of UFABs, and it has the same ringing
> > properties as the FAB.
>
> Okay. I'll take your word for it.
Actually, you prolly shouldn't take my word for it... :) I very rarely
do a
non-rung UFAB, but I'm about 96% sure it's the same as a FAB.
> > > > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
>
> > > None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
>
> > What about Mega Optic Blast, though? That one was QUITE the masher...
>
> It was? Are you sure? I don't think it was at all. Hits were dependent
> on positioning and whether or not your character was low on energy when
> hit. I don't think this was a masher at all. Everyone just did it on
> habit, like Wolvie's BBX.. :p
XSF Cyclops could get INCREDIBLE damage off his MOB by mashing; there
was definately an effect there. I think MSF Cyke was the same thing...
> > > > Blodia Vulcan,
>
> > > This is a definite masher.
>
> > If you do it on your opponent's Team Beating, it'll only hit one and leave the other alone, like an autocombo super...
>
> It's a definite mash. It lasts MUCH longer (about twice as long) when
> you mash it as opposed to when you don't.
Hmm, hadn't noticed...unfortunately, we don't see non-mashed supers
too much around here. :)
> As for the Team Cheating, er Beating, not only is it FREE damage, it's
> also FREE protection. Certain supers get aborted if you do it on an
> opponent's Team Beating, like the Final Justice and Captain Storm
> (they'll only do half of the super and then stop, and they you get
> nailed.. >:( )
Do FABs. 100% safe the instant you connect with one. :) Shichiseis
are
safe too, but only if you do it late in the Team Beating. Otherwise,
Chun
hops into a Hyper Megaman or some other nonsense...
> > > > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> > >
> > > The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> > > regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
>
> > Offtopic, but I've gotten up to 20 hits with Cammy's upside-down
> > Shinryuken at Level ONE. MAN does that thing ever mash...
>
> Yeah. They definitely upped the mashing properties of the Shinryukens in
> A3. The most I've gotten with Ken is 19 hits at Level 3 though. 20 hits
> on Level 1? Yeesh, I gotta try that. How was the damage?
Well, it killed them, so I'm not sure...
> [snip]
>
> > > > A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
>
> > > NOt in the eyes of most of the players here. They seem to think that
> > > either a) they do get mroe hits, despite what I tell them, or b) it's more satisfying somehow to mash during them. I don't know... -_-
>
> > The minds of vs-game scrubs are odd things... :/ Eitherways, I just
> > connect with a non-comboed Shichisei(ANY scrub can aircombo it), then sit back and watch 'em realize they're dead, without needing to look like a total spazzer...
>
> I hate that super. Hell, I hate that character (Chun Li). Nothing more
> annoying than walking into it with Z when somebody spazzes it off (you
> try to block it, but it's too late).
Well, it's better than having the aerial-rave-scrub dash in on you
the entire round with c.shorts and launching you into the super if you
let go of block for an instant...I mainly use it when shotokans fly
around with their hurricane kicks mindlessly. :)
> > This is odd, though, since I'm one of the best mashers in the arcade. Go fig. :)
>
> I'm not a particularly good masher myself, I don't think.
Just need practice: a lot of speed, but not a lot of pushing down on
the buttons.
Less wear on the controls that way...
> > > > ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> > > > sometimes.
> > >
> > > *Shudders* Don't remind me... >:(
> >
> > Not to mention it's one of the best chipping supers in the game...
>
> Chipping? Only if you finish your opponent off with it. The super is too
> risky to use out in the open.
Well, it's safer than Kikoshou, which they can pushblock far too
easily.
A Senretsu pins them for the entire blockdamage unless they AC or figure
out
how to throw you through it, etc...
I miss the XSF Senretsu, though. Instant startup, went through
fireballs at
close range, and Chun was invulnerable afterwards. If THAT had been the
Senretsu
in MvC, she would be rated #1, absolutely no question about it. :)
(and you'd hate her dozens times more, I know... :)
o_ev...@hotmail.com
BOB13 <tn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> falco...@my-dejanews.com wrote:<Snip>
>
> > Ok, I really hate it when the word "scrub" is used to describe anyone who
> > enjoys VS games. If a person is a scrub, it's because he hasn't learned
much
> > of what is involved in playing a good fighting game, not because he uses a
> > certain character or plays a certain game. Granted, we know that he prefers
> > VS to A3, and dislikes customs and VCs, but that is still a bit harsh.
> >
> > Of course, since I have yet to see "scrub" explicitly defined...
>
scrub
> as a general insult to other SFers who disagree with them. But an actual scrub
can
> be defined as someone who plays SF and has reached a stunt in there growth.
> simply refuse to learn anymore about the particular game thinking that there
> knowledge about the game is the end all. Not that they can't learn more about
the
> game but they just simply refuse to learn anymore.
Not quite. :)
Scrubdom can be voluntary or involuntary.
I should break it down completely since I'm here. "Scrub" is a slang term
that's been in use since....dang...the mid-'80's! In general, it means
someone that sucks at something, even though they've had forever and a day to
get good at that thing.
I guess I have an advantage being a member of the ethnicity that originated
this term. :) Well...for this thread, anyway. My cousins taught me
everything anyway, so I'm not all that. :)
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
SefirosuLB
following:
a person who is in a lower class than another
Scrubs can be beginners, but the word "scrub" is such a violent word. And
beginners aren't very good (usually). Or someone who ONLY uses one character
and ONLY does one thing over and over, and aren't very good at it. There are
many more ways to describe a scrub, but I don't want to get into that. In
Ehrgeiz (I'll keep this short), people use Cloud, and are successful for a
couple of rounds, most likely only for the first three or four matches, then
die the next one. That's a type of scrub. They attempt to do something that
works for a while, but the AI is too smart and then they lose. Well, that's
all.
sCruB
best in the arcade and racks up huge win streaks. But he only uses one or
two patterns with his chosen team. He never picks a different team, never
does any thing new with the old one. But he does his particular pattern so
well that he wins. Notice how this player refuses to learn anything new?
That's the trademark of a scrub.
>
>> > Actually, I disagree with this. To me, "scrub" is more of a mentality
than a regards to one's skill level. Because one can do the above and not be
a scrub (at that game anyway).
>
>
>
We all know people who use Wolverine their whole lives and pull of
infinites, BBX/ Fatal Claw comboes all the time. It does *gag* take a
certain amount of skill to do these but a scrub will just stop there and
allow his skill lvl to stagnate because just that skill lvl is enough a
winning tactic that works.
>
>> Someone who uses overpowered characters / tactics frequently? Or ones
that are regarded as "cheap?"
>
>No and no. People of all skil levels do that. It's called "using what
>works", which isn't a sign of scrubbiness, it's a sign or being boring.
>:)
continuously try to improve it or find better things. Let's put it this way,
Ryu's redizzy was good but that didn't stop people from graduating to
discover the infamous V Corner Trap.
>
<snip throwing which should never have been in the equation>
>
>> > (I know I'm going to get in trouble for this): MvC is the only arcade
game around here where I can get 2 player comp. The only team I use is
Strider/Zangief. They, along with Captain Commando, are the ONLY
>> > characters in the game I particularly like (yes, I actually like the
>> > shin pixie :). I really don't like MvC at all, so I spend most of my
>> > time abusing all there is to abuse with those two characters and beat
the hell out of most of my opponents without mercy. I don't think I know all
there is to the game, and I know I could easily pick up other
>> > characters. But I don't feel to, plain and simple. I don't thikn MvC is
worth my time to learn more than two or three characters. It's nearly
>> > the same garbage no matter who you play anyway. >:(
>
but you play it anyway just for 2 player comp. Huh? Isn't that just
wasting money?
>
Gen then lose to the computer;P
>>
>> > > Of course there are the standard scrubs like mashers but you don't
have to be skill-less to be a scrub.
>
>> > No, you don't. But using/abusing what works doesn't necessarily equal
scrub either.
>
>> IMHO, unless they only ever mash. That's scrubby. And the "rotate
>> joystick clockwise, mash all buttons" Wolvie players are scrubs, it's sad
that they really do exist.
>
Wolvie scrubs are scrubs. Wolvie players are not necessarily scrubs. An
example would be Viscant who plays Wolvie but went on to discover the 3O for
Zangief who everybody else thought sucked @$$.
>Yeah, that's really sad. It's also annoying whenever I tell someone that
>there are very few actual mash supers, and I point which ones are, yet
>they mash on every single super they do.. >:(
>
It could be worse... There are people who stare at me like I'm a wierdo and
say that rotating the joystick continuously during the FAB doesn't do
anything.... When it does dammit!
>--
>Ultima
>http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
>http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
>
>"If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
>arcade"
"Sodomy non Sapiens"
"I'll be buggered if I know"
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Kao Megura wrote in message ...<snip>
>Then what exactly is the definition of a scrub? Someone who uses
>overpowered characters / tactics frequently? Or ones that are regarded as
>but that's a different story). I don't think that's particularly scrubby,
>though.
Don't you just get the feeling this thread is just going to turn ugly? I
thought someone's already set the definition for this.
kayin/ka khiong kwok
>non-obviously-
>masher supers? I used to play a guy around here who would mash like
>crazy
>during the Shichisei...
Any "real" mashing moves would benefit from mashing. Other times, the move
is set to hit a number of times, factors such as time, distance, and
positioning would effect the number of hits possible. I know what you mean
though, you'll get some guys who even mash during and FAB. I tend to just
spin the joystick like mad for effect, but it does no extra damage. :')
> Anyway, what mashes and what doesn't, as far as I can tell:
>
>Mashes: Senretsu Kyaku, Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee), Hyper
> MegaMan/Roll, Beat Plane(duh), Legion, Ouroborous(heh), Wolvy's
> Turbo Mode Super(heh), and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick
> ringing, not button mashing).
This is obviously keeping to MvC right (sorry to point out the obvious).
Kikoshou doesn't really gain much from mashing. I know in the first two
versus game, mashing get you more hits, in MvC, I think it's just a case of
distance. Oh yeah, doesn't the rush drill mash also. Berserker BarrageX is a
definite masher and so is the Blodia vulcan, but I ain't so sure about the
U-FAB.
>Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
> Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big
> Bang Laser, Captain Sword, Blodia Vulcan, Blodia
> Punch, War Destroyer, Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> Hazan Tenshou Kyaku.
The shinryuken is a definite masher, but the rest don't mash as I recall.
They depend more on the position.
>Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s), Shippu Jinrai
> Kyaku, Darkness Illusion, Silhouette Blade, Captain Storm,
> Ragnarok, Crawler Assault, Maximum Spider, Ultimate Web
> Throw, Great Cyclone, Final Justice, Hyper Stars +
>Stripes,
> Hyper Charging Star, Venom Web, Death Bite, Gamma Crush,
> Gamma Wave, Gamma Quake, Royal Flush, Cajun Explosion,
> Berzerker Barrage X, Weapon X, Fatal Claw, Shun Goku
>Satsu,
> and Final Mission.
I think besides Wolvie's BBX, you're spot on.
> A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to
>connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being
>shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the
>buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
It's the FAB and (ashamedly) the Final Justice that I like watching.
Sometimes, you can just watch your opponent cringe. :')
> ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit
>Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
>sometimes.
But it's boring, a risk of nintendoitis and bad for the controls! :')
Cheers,
Ultima
>
> Ultima wrote:
> >
> > Rylan Hilman wrote:
[SLASH]
> > > Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee),
> > No.
> Actually, I dunno if this was in the earlier vs. games only, but it
> always seemed to do 3-4 more hits if you mashed it. I'll probably have to go test this, but towards the end of the super, it seems to hit faster or something...
I'll have to test this too. The super seems to do a sporadic number of
hits (though not damage) depending on where the opponent is when it's
activated. I seriously doubt mashing actually does anything with it.
> > > Hyper MegaMan/Roll,
> > No.
> Watch the animals during the Hyper Roll: if you don't mash, they come out rather sporatically, but if you mash, it's almost a solid wall.
Never noticed, actually. That super does next to no damage unless they
get hit with the electric beam part, and usually when they get hit with
that the other animals don't hit (or maybe they hit once, I'm not
sure). Either way, if it is a mash super, it's a useless mash super..
:\
> They do zero block damage, though, so...and I don't know if the same is for Megaman, since I only play Roll, but I'd guess it would be.
Megaman's beam does the majority of the damage. NOt sure about the
animals not the effect mashing has on them.
Oh yeah: RUsh Drill is a mash super as well. :)
> > > and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing).
> > Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
> Nope, I do a fair amount of UFABs, and it has the same ringing
> properties as the FAB.
Okay. I'll take your word for it.
> > > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
> > None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
> What about Mega Optic Blast, though? That one was QUITE the masher...
It was? Are you sure? I don't think it was at all. Hits were dependent
on positioning and whether or not your character was low on energy when
hit. I don't think this was a masher at all. Everyone just did it on
habit, like Wolvie's BBX.. :p
> > > Captain Sword,
> > This is a mash, strangely enough. But a slight one. You get 10 hits with mash, 6-8 hits without (only when it hits; mashing will do nothing to an opponent who blocks it). I haven't not mashed this super since I first played CapCom, and I was told this early on and it seemed to be correct. May have to double-check this too.
> Does it also depend on opponent's location? I.e. just launched as
> opposed to riding across the screen with Colossus/Psylocke?
Probably yeah. After launcher you'll get the full 10 hits. In fact,
you'll only get all the hits if you hit them from the moment the super
starts (and mash). If you hit your opponent with it from all the way
across the screen, you'll get fewer hits and less damage (not much less,
but less regardless :p)
> > > Blodia Vulcan,
> > This is a definite masher.
> I'm not sure on this, though...it's not like any other projectile/beam super in the game.
Right. All other projectile/beams supers are non-mash, save for CapCom's
Captain Sword ^_^
> If you do it on your opponent's Team Beating, it'll only hit one and leave the other alone, like an autocombo super...
It's a definite mash. It lasts MUCH longer (about twice as long) when
you mash it as opposed to when you don't.
As for the Team Cheating, er Beating, not only is it FREE damage, it's
also FREE protection. Certain supers get aborted if you do it on an
opponent's Team Beating, like the Final Justice and Captain Storm
(they'll only do half of the super and then stop, and they you get
nailed.. >:( )
> > > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> >
> > The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> > regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
> Offtopic, but I've gotten up to 20 hits with Cammy's upside-down
> Shinryuken at Level ONE. MAN does that thing ever mash...
Yeah. They definitely upped the mashing properties of the Shinryukens in
A3. The most I've gotten with Ken is 19 hits at Level 3 though. 20 hits
on Level 1? Yeesh, I gotta try that. How was the damage?
[snip]
> > > A couple of these may be wrong, but it's SO much more satisfying to connect, say, a Weapon X, and then sit back while your opponent is being shredded and neither of your can stop it, than to go mashing on the buttons while getting no return for your energy expenditure...
> > NOt in the eyes of most of the players here. They seem to think that
> > either a) they do get mroe hits, despite what I tell them, or b) it's more satisfying somehow to mash during them. I don't know... -_-
> The minds of vs-game scrubs are odd things... :/ Eitherways, I just
> connect with a non-comboed Shichisei(ANY scrub can aircombo it), then sit back and watch 'em realize they're dead, without needing to look like a total spazzer...
I hate that super. Hell, I hate that character (Chun Li). Nothing more
annoying than walking into it with Z when somebody spazzes it off (you
try to block it, but it's too late).
> This is odd, though, since I'm one of the best mashers in the arcade. Go fig. :)
I'm not a particularly good masher myself, I don't think.
> > > ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> > > sometimes.
> >
> > *Shudders* Don't remind me... >:(
>
> Not to mention it's one of the best chipping supers in the game...
Chipping? Only if you finish your opponent off with it. The super is too
risky to use out in the open.
ka...@mpx.com.au
Rylan Hilman <rhi...@oasis.quay.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > I think besides Wolvie's BBX, you're spot on.
>
> do...
Ahhh... thanks for the correction. I thought that mashed, or
has it always been a non-masher?
<snip>
> > It's the FAB and (ashamedly) the Final Justice that I like watching.
> > Sometimes, you can just watch your opponent cringe. :')
>
> Yeah, but you generally wanna ring during the FAB unless you KNOW
> they're dead. In which case a UFAB is better to watch. :)
Good point, but I'm one of those people guilty of always
trying to end the fight with an FAB while trying Z, so I
know they're dead. :')
> > But it's boring, a risk of nintendoitis and bad for the controls! :')
>
> I dunno...I like seeing if I can get 30 hits consistently. :)
Each to their own I guess. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
Mike Z
> No.
Is XSF and MSF, 3-4 more hits for mashing. In MvC, 1-2 more. Not worth
it, but it does mash.
> > and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing).
> Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB
> you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red
> whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
Must ring for UFAB. Otherwise it does stupid, worthless damage.
Actually, it does stupid worthless damage either way, but...
:^)
> > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
> Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
> None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
Are you SURE? I could have SWORN they were in earlier games - did they
not make this so in MvC?
> > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
Shiryuken - masher. Blizzard - not a masher. 11 hits (?) no matter
what.
> > Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s),
Shoryureppas mash, but it's difficult. 1-2 extra hits.
> > Ultimate Web Throw,
> A note about this super: By habit, the players here ring the joystick
> during this super a la Z's FAB. I'm not sure if it really does more
> damage, but we've become accustomed to it since it works for his regular
> web throw.
No extra damage from that.
--
Mike Z--The Zangief Solution:
They jump/duck/punch/kick/Super/special/throw attempt?
Block or Tech Hit, (if applicable,) then SPD/FAB.
They die? Laugh. Then whup the computer.
Ultima
> > > Kikoshou(about 3-4 more hits, whee),
> > No.
> Is XSF and MSF, 3-4 more hits for mashing. In MvC, 1-2 more. Not worth it, but it does mash.
How hard to you have to mash to get those extra hits?
> > > and [Ultra] Final Atomic Buster(joystick ringing, not button mashing). Actually no. Only Z's normal FAB do you need to ring for. With the UFAB you don't need to ring (I think? I seem to remember Z going fully red whether I rang the joystick or not.. I'll have to double-check that).
> Must ring for UFAB. Otherwise it does stupid, worthless damage.
> Actually, it does stupid worthless damage either way, but...
> :^)
It does stupid worthless damage alright. I guess you're right, since I
can only remember not ringing once.. :\
>
> > > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
> > None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
> Are you SURE? I could have SWORN they were in earlier games - did they not make this so in MvC?
No I'm not SURE. I could have sworn they weren't in earlier games (well,
not in MSF - never really played XSF). To me the number of hits only
seemd to change drasticaly when they were used to finish your opponent
off and you got them from close range, where they would get stuck and
eat all the hits possible (like 40+ for Shinkuu Hadouken instead of 20 -
30). Had no effect if you mashed or not. I could be wrong, but that's
what how it seemed to me. Same thing in MvC, where the damn thing does
40% minimum regardless of how many hits it does. >:(
> > > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> > The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> > regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
> Shiryuken - masher. Blizzard - not a masher. 11 hits (?) no matter
> what.
Blizzard's not a masher? It looked like it would hit more times as he
was going upwards if you mashed than if you didn't. Then again, it's not
like I'm landing this super often enough to really and truly check..
Hell, the only opponent I use it on semi-regularly is Onslaught's final
form. >:\
The Blizzard does more hits and more damage if you connect with it when
your opponent is low on the screen though as opposed to near the top,
right? Cause even when I hit with it I've never gotten 11 hits, either
in MvC or in MSF.. MOst I've seen is 8.
> > > Doesn't mash: Shichisei, Shin Shoryuken, Shoryureppa(s),
> Shoryureppas mash, but it's difficult. 1-2 extra hits.
Bleah. -_-
> > > Ultimate Web Throw,
> > A note about this super: By habit, the players here ring the joystick during this super a la Z's FAB. I'm not sure if it really does more damage, but we've become accustomed to it since it works for his regular web throw.
> No extra damage from that.
Didn't think so. :p
Ultima
[SNARF]
[re: Kikkoshou]
> Maybe...I first noticed it did a few more hits sometimes in XSF, and
> just kept it ever since.
*Turn on Saturn MSF and sets Hyper Gaugue to Full*
Okay, you're right. It seems to a *few* hits more (3 -4), but I can't
tell how much additional damage is done. Not much it seems
> > > > > Hyper MegaMan/Roll,
> >
> > > > No.
> >
> > > Watch the animals during the Hyper Roll: if you don't mash, they come out rather sporatically, but if you mash, it's almost a solid wall.
> >
> > Never noticed, actually. That super does next to no damage unless they
> > get hit with the electric beam part, and usually when they get hit with
> > that the other animals don't hit (or maybe they hit once, I'm not
> > sure). Either way, if it is a mash super, it's a useless mash super..
> > :\
>
> I dunno, how much damage do the animals do assuming you DO hit?
A few pixels mabybe.. :\
> > > They do zero block damage, though, so...and I don't know if the same is for Megaman, since I only play Roll, but I'd guess it would be.
> >
> > Megaman's beam does the majority of the damage. NOt sure about the
> > animals not the effect mashing has on them.
> >
> > Oh yeah: RUsh Drill is a mash super as well. :)
>
> Mashing kicks turns on the rockets, right?
NO, that's for Beat PLane. Mashing during Rush Drill makes it go faster
and last longer.
[snip UFAB]
> XSF Cyclops could get INCREDIBLE damage off his MOB by mashing; there was definately an effect there. I think MSF Cyke was the same thing...
Okay. Checking on MSF, it IS a masher, but here's the results:
No mash: 11 - 15 hits
Mash: 16 - 27 hits
Finish off first opponent (no mash): 32 - 48 hits
Finish off first opponent (mash): [up to] 52 hits
Finishing off the final opponent doesn't tell you how many hits was
done. :p
In all cases, it did around the same amount of damage: 25- 35%. In
addition, the number of hits and the damage done seemed to depend
greatly on how close to Cyke was when he/she got hit, and how much
energy they had remaining. Generally, the closer they were and the less
energy they had left (the latter is for when the first opponent gets
finished off), the more hits you would do.
The most I got mashing on an opponent who could take it was against
Bison who got hit point-blank, and it did 27 hits mashed. Against an
opponent whom the super killed, I got 52 hits against Dhalsim, from
point-blank range, mashed, and he only had a sliver of energy left.
So, mashing does add more hits, but the added damage is questionable.
The most I got was an extra 5%, and that was to finish an opponent off.
And mashing doesn't mean anything when your opponent's dead.. :p
[snip]
> > As for the Team Cheating, er Beating, not only is it FREE damage, it's also FREE protection. Certain supers get aborted if you do it on an
> > opponent's Team Beating, like the Final Justice and Captain Storm
> > (they'll only do half of the super and then stop, and they you get
> > nailed.. >:( )
> Do FABs. 100% safe the instant you connect with one. :)
Yeah, but in order to do it, you have to get close enough and activate
the damn thing, during which time a Captain America/Ryu/MegaMan team
would have done som 80+% damage >:(
> Shichiseis are safe too, but only if you do it late in the Team Beating. Otherwise, Chun hops into a Hyper Megaman or some other nonsense...
Don't play Chun. And yeah, that would happen. ONce a Team Beating's
started, there's nothing that's truly safe. Strider's Ouroboros is the
closest thing, and even he will get blasted if he starts it up during
the beating at the wrong time. >:(
[chomp]
> > > This is odd, though, since I'm one of the best mashers in the arcade. Go fig. :)
> > I'm not a particularly good masher myself, I don't think.
> Just need practice: a lot of speed, but not a lot of pushing down on
> the buttons. Less wear on the controls that way...
I don't *want* to pratice mashing. If I have to mash excessively to
play, I won't bother. As it is, I can get away with the occasional mash
since you had to occasionally mash in SF2 to get away from grabs and
holds. :)
> > > > > ...not to say mashing isn't ALWAYS bad. Being able to get out a 30-hit Senretsu Kyaku may be the difference between winning and losing
> > > > > sometimes.
> > > >
> > > > *Shudders* Don't remind me... >:(
> > >
> > > Not to mention it's one of the best chipping supers in the game...
> >
> > Chipping? Only if you finish your opponent off with it. The super is too
> > risky to use out in the open.
>
> Well, it's safer than Kikoshou, which they can pushblock far too
> easily. A Senretsu pins them for the entire blockdamage unless they AC or figure out how to throw you through it, etc...
Most people can just dash and attack when she stops. That's one of the
few supers it's better NOT to push block.
>
> I miss the XSF Senretsu, though. Instant startup, went through
> fireballs at close range, and Chun was invulnerable afterwards. If THAT had been the Senretsu in MvC, she would be rated #1, absolutely no question about it. :)
*shudders at the idea*
>
> (and you'd hate her dozens times more, I know... :)
ENT!
Ultima
> I can't believe I'm talking about MvC.
> In article <36AA9C70...@rit.edu>,
> Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
[snarf]
> > > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
> > None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
>
> That's incorrect.
Yeah, I've been corrected. That's what I get for refusing to mash with
every single super like everyone else :p
> Shinkuu Hadouken and Messatsu Gou Hado are mashing supers. 18 hits.
18 hits? I've seen them do way more than that already. Do they behave
exactly like Cyclop's MOB? (that is, mashing gets you a few more hits,
not much damage increase, and it all depends on how close your opponent
is to Ryu when he starts the beam?)
Maybe I should have said "no beam supers SHOULD be mashers" :p
Oh yeah, while on this note: A long time ago someone told me that if you
ring during Soul Eraser, her satellites go faster and you get more hits
(he only rang, not mashed). Is this true? I don't play Morrigan, and I
don't intend to any time soon.
> > > Captain Sword,
> >
> > This is a mash, strangely enough. But a slight one. You get 10 hits with mash, 6-8 hits without (only when it hits; mashing will do nothing to an opponent who blocks it). I haven't not mashed this super since I first played CapCom, and I was told this early on and it seemed to be correct. May have to double-check this too.
> It's not. Look at the way the Captain Sword behaves. It would seem to reason that the closer your opponent is to your hands, the more hits you'd get.
Mashing seems to make the full number of hits more consistent, but that
could just be me. Even after launcher I remember it doing only about 6
hits instead of all, what, 9 or 10?
> > > Blodia Vulcan,
> >
> > This is a definite masher.
>
> Nope.
NO??? I've seen the thing hit and then stop abruptly, whereas with
mashing it seems to last twice as long (opponent gets zapped all the way
to the top of the screen and off it).
> > > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
> > The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> > regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
> Shinryuken has always been and always will be a mash super. C'mon now. :)
Wasn't sure, actually. In the Alpha series, yeah. In Vs. series I
assumed it was, but since I don't play Ken (or Ryu in MvC), and since I
seldom see that super, and since few people *don't* mash on every single
super here, it was kinda hard to tell for sure. :p
o_ev...@hotmail.com
In article <36AA9C70...@rit.edu>,
Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
> Rylan Hilman wrote:
> >
> > sCruB wrote:
>
> [SLASH]
>
> > Anyway, what mashes and what doesn't, as far as I can tell:
>
> > Mashes:
> > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado,
> Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
>
> None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
That's incorrect.
Shinkuu Hadouken and Messatsu Gou Hado are mashing supers. 18 hits.
> > Captain Sword,
>
> This is a mash, strangely enough. But a slight one. You get 10 hits with
> mash, 6-8 hits without (only when it hits; mashing will do nothing to an
> opponent who blocks it). I haven't not mashed this super since I first
> played CapCom, and I was told this early on and it seemed to be correct.
> May have to double-check this too.
It's not. Look at the way the Captain Sword behaves. It would seem to reason
that the closer your opponent is to your hands, the more hits you'd get.
> > Blodia Vulcan,
>
> This is a definite masher.
Nope.
> > Shinryuken, Siberian Blizzard,
>
> The former I'm not to sure of, but I believe so (definitely in any
> regular SF game) The second one is a definite masher.
Shinryuken has always been and always will be a mash super. C'mon now. :)
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mike Z
> How hard to you have to mash to get those extra hits?
In XSF, not very. MSF, not very. MvC, you have to be spazzing like for
Juggie's 8-hit Headcrush in XSF.
IOW, it's HARDLY worth it.
> > > > Definate maybes: Shinkuu Hadoken, Shinkuu Tatsu., Messatsu Gou Hado, Tenma Gou Zankuu, Soul Eraser, Proton Cannon, Big Bang Laser,
> > > None of these are mash supers. Bluntly, no beam supers are mashers.
> > Are you SURE? I could have SWORN they were in earlier games - did they not make this so in MvC?
> No I'm not SURE. I could have sworn they weren't in earlier games (well,
> not in MSF - never really played XSF). To me the number of hits only
> seemd to change drasticaly when they were used to finish your opponent
> off and you got them from close range, where they would get stuck and
> eat all the hits possible (like 40+ for Shinkuu Hadouken instead of 20 -
> 30). Had no effect if you mashed or not. I could be wrong, but that's
> what how it seemed to me. Same thing in MvC, where the damn thing does
> 40% minimum regardless of how many hits it does. >:(
You definitely get more from the Shinkuu Hadoken, Akuma's Super air FB,
and the Mega Optic Blast, but it later games you have to spaz more and
more for the hits....
> Blizzard's not a masher? It looked like it would hit more times as he
> was going upwards if you mashed than if you didn't. Then again, it's not
> like I'm landing this super often enough to really and truly check..
> Hell, the only opponent I use it on semi-regularly is Onslaught's final
> form. >:\
> The Blizzard does more hits and more damage if you connect with it when
> your opponent is low on the screen though as opposed to near the top,
> right? Cause even when I hit with it I've never gotten 11 hits, either
> in MvC or in MSF.. MOst I've seen is 8.
In MvC it's 10 or 11 (I forget) if you catch them on the ground with
it. MSF is about the same I think....
And no, mashing has no effect.
> > Shoryureppas mash, but it's difficult. 1-2 extra hits.
> Bleah. -_-
Hey - in XSF, those 2 extra hits (9 hits turns to 11 hits) were VERY
large damage!
Dunno about MSF/MvC....
> > > > Ultimate Web Throw,
> > No extra damage from that.
> Didn't think so. :p
But it's cool enough without it.
Francis Ibanez
continuously rotating the stick and mashing all the buttons? With that
type of play is why I thought the origin of the term "scrub" comes from,
since they're practically giving the controls a scrubbing.
I don't think using one or two moves to kick butt is scrubby or cheap,
don't you guys think that it shows how good you are by killing the comp
with just using 2 moves in your wide arsenal? When the guy bitches "Is
that all you know?", you can say "That's all I need to kick your ass!"
then use your other moves and prove you're not limited to your 2 moves,
it's just that you felt they were all you needed. I've seen a lot of
guys try their flashy stuff, get them off, then eventually lose anyway,
when all they really needed was a couple of simple moves to win.
For example, in the older games like SSF2Turbo, if you use a shoto, you
could counter an incoming air attack with either a dp or a simple
crouching HP. The crouching HP doesn't give the opponent a knockdown
which makes it possible for you to follow up your attack.
I know my opinion is a little outdated since we're talking versus games
and the newer SF's, but what the hell.
Francis Ibanez
kayin/ka khiong kwok wrote:
>
> Kao Megura wrote in message ...
> >In article <36A951FB...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >Then what exactly is the definition of a scrub? Someone who uses
> >overpowered characters / tactics frequently? Or ones that are regarded as
> >"cheap?" I mean, I throw quite liberally (much to the annoyance of others,
> >but that's a different story). I don't think that's particularly scrubby,
> >though.
>
> Don't you just get the feeling this thread is just going to turn ugly? I
> thought someone's already set the definition for this.
>
mdr...@webtv.net
what a scrub is:
a) someone who uses Akuma, Ryu, or Ken
b) someon who hasn't proven themselves in a
tournament
c) someone who uses the same tactics
over and over
d) someone who mashes the buttons
e) someone who plays nothing but the Versus series
I agree with the last three. I know that there are a lot of people out
there that play ARKs with the fireball, dragon punch pattern, but not
everyone who plays them are like that. Some of us do actually play them
to their fullest. I know that last two to be true because I can play the
same person on the Versus series and they do well just by mashing on
buttons, but then when I get them on a SF machine it is like they are in
a whole different area.
One last thing I would like to say is that the word scrub is thrown
around way to much. How can a person say someone is a scrub over they
internet when neither of them have played against each other. That is
unless of course they have, but that is not the point. I have had a few
people say I am a scrub because I use AKuma. They have not even played
me so how would they know. Not everyone in here is guilty of this but
there is a few( you know who you are). I just think it wrong to say crap
about someone you haven't even played.