Apology from WhoaMoses (not WhoaMass)
WhoaMoses
couldn't back up. It just gets a tad annoying when there's this whole East-West
coast rivalry thing that's so stupid to begin with, and then I have to read all
these arrogant bastards on the West coast saying they're just good,
period.......I'd like to apologize to Valle (tho he probably didn't read the
thread anyway) if it seems like I was making a personal attack on him. I
shouldn't have used his name, but been more general. I was just wondering if
these so called "pros" played a hell of a lot of SF to get that good, is all.
But I went overboard, and accused Valle of having no life and playing games
24/7. Oh well. We all have our bad days.
HOWEVER.........
I'm sorry guys but my belief that MvsC is more fun to play than A3 sticks.
That's right. I never said that MvsC had a better fighting engine, or that it
was a better game overall. I said that A3 is too slow (maybe my machine is set
really slow, or maybe I'm just used to the versus series, but it's just SLOW
around here) and that VCs are trash. And I still believe I'm right. If the game
was just A(Z) and X-ism, and a little faster, I might like it more. But I'm
sorry, this game is just too boring for me to play. I played it for a month
after it came out and soon realized that I could decimate any opponent with
No-ism Zangief. Then somebody actually figured out how to beat me, and I
switched to X-ism Dhalsim. After a week or two that got old and I picked
Rolento, then Karin, then Rose (who is highly underrated, if you ask
me).....then I even got desperate and played as the shotos....then the novelty
ran out. I'm just plain bored whenever I play that game. It's too highly
dependent on previously planned-out matches. And once I'd found out they ruined
the Alpha Counters.......well that was the last straw, so to speak.
MvsC is just more fun. It's more dependent on spur-of-the-moment thinking. Some
of you have argued that if you use a certain pattern with characters like
Wolverine, Chun-Li, or Strider, that you'll always win. Not so. In theory
you're right, but this is real life. People make mistakes. Controls mess up.
Shit happens. And it'll be that one second that you make a mistake that I'll
take control. And then you can kiss your beloved two tokens goodbye......
And as for infinites.......I already explained that nobody around here knows
how to use them but me, right? Well yeah the competition does mainly consist of
scrubs. But there are a few decent players. And why don't I use the infinites
to win every time? Because that just wouldn't be FUN. F-U-N. I'd rather have to
use three combos to defeat my opponent than one unescapable one. Because ya
see, video games are becoming a lot like professional sports. It used to be for
the love of the game. Now it's just to be "the big shot" who can beat
everybody. Well for those of you out there like that, I say SCREW YOU. We don't
need your kind around our machines. Some people just wanna have fun. Go play
baseball or something you losers. Use some skill for a change, learn how to
play the game, or go home.
Also there's a big difference between throwing and infinites.....namely, throws
are escapable, and throws don't kill you instantly. So there. Personally I love
throwing, and believe it or not I take a lot of shit about it. Maybe next time
a scrub complains about me throwing him, I'll use an infinite? Maybe then he'll
be happy.
So that's how I feel. This is my personal opinion. I never said any of this was
fact in the first place, just my belief that MvsC was more fun to play, and
therefore a better GAME overall, than A3. Because games are judged not by how
hard they are to play, or how much skill they take, but by how much fun you
have while playing them. And I knew that by going against popular opinion and
not conforming to what the common video gamer believes, I was gonna take a lot
of shit. And I did (13 posts of it actually). And that's okay, because nothing
that anybody says will ever change my opinion. Call me a scrub. Call me a
loser. Call me too lazy to play A3 every weekend and master all the characters.
Because you're right: I'd rather stay awake while playing MvsC.
o_ev...@hotmail.com
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> Okay, so I over did it a little. Okay, a LOT. I was making assumptions that I
> couldn't back up. It just gets a tad annoying when there's this whole
East-West
> coast rivalry thing that's so stupid to begin with,
Kinda like the ol' Raiders-Chargers rivalry...oops...sorry....didn't mean to
interrupt.
> and then I have to read all
> these arrogant bastards on the West coast saying they're just good,
> period.......I'd like to apologize to Valle (tho he probably didn't read the
> thread anyway) if it seems like I was making a personal attack on him. I
> shouldn't have used his name, but been more general. I was just wondering if
> these so called "pros" played a hell of a lot of SF to get that good, is all.
You should practice doing something that a lot of people out there need to
start doing: Say what you mean.
> But I went overboard, and accused Valle of having no life and playing games
> 24/7. Oh well. We all have our bad days.
Your humility is refreshing. I'm glad you can admit your mistakes.
> HOWEVER.........
>
> I'm sorry guys but my belief that MvsC is more fun to play than A3 sticks.
> That's right. I never said that MvsC had a better fighting engine, or that it
> was a better game overall. I said that A3 is too slow (maybe my machine is set
> really slow, or maybe I'm just used to the versus series, but it's just SLOW
> around here) and that VCs are trash. And I still believe I'm right. If the
game
> was just A(Z) and X-ism, and a little faster, I might like it more. But I'm
> sorry, this game is just too boring for me to play. I played it for a month
> after it came out and soon realized that I could decimate any opponent with
> No-ism Zangief. Then somebody actually figured out how to beat me, and I
> switched to X-ism Dhalsim. After a week or two that got old and I picked
> Rolento, then Karin, then Rose (who is highly underrated, if you ask
> me).....then I even got desperate and played as the shotos....then the novelty
> ran out. I'm just plain bored whenever I play that game. It's too highly
> dependent on previously planned-out matches. And once I'd found out they
ruined
> the Alpha Counters.......well that was the last straw, so to speak.
Okay...so it's because your competition can't beat you? Sorry....sounds like
your....competition sucks, not the game. Logic in action.
BTW, if you thought ACs were fair in A2 (particularly Ken's kick AC) then you
really do have another thing coming. How hard is it to react to blocking a
move with the AC motion? Not hard at all. It's FREE damage. So, Capcom got
smart and decided to try to) BALANCE the reward for the risk involved (which
is very negligible). You can't say that the risk/reward ratio is balanced in
MvC, for the most part, anyway.
> MvsC is just more fun. It's more dependent on spur-of-the-moment thinking.
Some
> of you have argued that if you use a certain pattern with characters like
> Wolverine, Chun-Li, or Strider, that you'll always win. Not so. In theory
> you're right, but this is real life. People make mistakes. Controls mess up.
> Shit happens. And it'll be that one second that you make a mistake that I'll
> take control. And then you can kiss your beloved two tokens goodbye......
Have you actually been to a tournament? Oh wait...you haven't. That explains
your response.
> And as for infinites.......I already explained that nobody around here knows
> how to use them but me, right? Well yeah the competition does mainly consist
of
> scrubs. But there are a few decent players. And why don't I use the infinites
> to win every time? Because that just wouldn't be FUN.
I have yet another lesson to teach you.
Whenever you're evaluating things, you evaluate them at their POTENTIAL....not
at half-way-up-the-ladder of skill. If you have to hold back to make it fun,
that says a lot about the game right there.
> F-U-N. I'd rather have to
> use three combos to defeat my opponent than one unescapable one.
Only three? Play pre-Alpha SFs, then. Not only do you get a better
risk-reward ratio, but you have to think tons more about strategy and all of
the other things that I went on about in my last post to you. In other
words, pre-Alpha SF takes more skill to play than ANY Marvel game.
> Because ya
> see, video games are becoming a lot like professional sports. It used to be
> for
> the love of the game. Now it's just to be "the big shot" who can beat
> everybody.
Ummm....actually, it's ALWAYS been like that. Can you say fireball-DP trap?
Can you think of any other pattern that's been used to try and win against
other people? C'mon now.
Besides, what are you worried about? You're still having fun, right? Let us
have our fun, too. If we like being challenged while having fun so that we
can...get this...have MORE fun, why stop us? Don't you know that challenge
brings out the best in everyone? No....well...you haven't been
challenged...and that shows in all of your previous posts.
> Well for those of you out there like that, I say SCREW YOU. We
don't
> need your kind around our machines. Some people just wanna have fun. Go play
> baseball or something you losers. Use some skill for a change, learn how to
> play the game, or go home.
Ummm....if we're winning and you're losing and we ARE using skill....what does
that say about you?
> Also there's a big difference between throwing and infinites.....namely,
throws
> are escapable, and throws don't kill you instantly. So there.
Infinites don't kill you instantly, either. They just kill you slowly. I
prefer fast deaths, myself, but I'll do infinites sometimes. If it's in the
game, it's in the game. Don't get me wrong. I don't enjoy infinites one bit,
but sometimes infinites aren't easy....so I like to *drumroll,
please*.....challenge myself (TADA!) and see if I can still do them.
Either way, infinites are unbalancing and unfair. The only way a game that
has an infinite in it can be fair and challenging is if everyone has
it....thus my choice of MSH over all of those games. Plus, that game takes
much more skill than MvC and all of the cheese that resides therein.
> Personally I love
> throwing, and believe it or not I take a lot of shit about it. Maybe next time
> a scrub complains about me throwing him, I'll use an infinite? Maybe then
he'll
> be happy.
Maybe.
> So that's how I feel. This is my personal opinion. I never said any of this
> was fact in the first place,
You never said otherwise, though, so what are we to guess?
> just my belief that MvsC was more fun to play, and
> therefore a better GAME overall, than A3.
Fun is not the only factor in judging a better game overall, though. Your
logic is very faulty.
> Because games are judged not by how
> hard they are to play, or how much skill they take, but by how much fun you
> have while playing them.
FALSE. You can't make a statement true by just typing it.
> And I knew that by going against popular opinion and
> not conforming to what the common video gamer believes, I was gonna take a lot
> of shit. And I did (13 posts of it actually). And that's okay, because nothing
> that anybody says will ever change my opinion.
You're taking a lot of crap because your logic is faulty. If you like MvC
better, that's fine with me. To say that it's a better game overall, however,
REQUIRES that you analyze ALL of the facts before you make a decision. You're
rashly typing stuff...and that doesn't fly here.
> Call me a scrub. Call me a loser. Call me too lazy to play A3 every weekend
> and master all the characters.
> Because you're right: I'd rather stay awake while playing MvsC.
You need better competition. Somebody on the East Coast can teach you that.
By the way, when someone posts that they like things that are easy and give
much more reward than the risk and skill involved in doing those things, it
tends to point toward scrubbiness. It clearly points in that direction when
they like those things and dislike those things that take risk and skill to
perform as well as having to have a fairly deep understanding of what those
things do. MvC clearly takes less skill to play than A3, yet you like MvC
more and say that MvC is a better game.
What else are people supposed to think? (BTW, I'm not calling you a scrub.)
P.S. A "scrub", for those that don't know, is someone whose learning curve,
when it comes to a particular thing, is relatively flat. For example,
someone that's been playing SF for 10 years and still uses nothing but FB-DP
patterns with Ryu is a scrub.
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
joemama
>
>What else are people supposed to think? (BTW, I'm not calling you a
scrub.)
>
he doesnt deserve to be called a scrub
>
James Margaris
>In article <19990122152242...@ng97.aol.com>,
> whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
[clip]
>BTW, if you thought ACs were fair in A2 (particularly Ken's kick AC) then you
>really do have another thing coming. How hard is it to react to blocking a
>move with the AC motion? Not hard at all. It's FREE damage. So, Capcom got
>smart and decided to try to) BALANCE the reward for the risk involved (which
>is very negligible). You can't say that the risk/reward ratio is balanced in
>MvC, for the most part, anyway.
AC's weren't quite as bad as you make out. You could do deep jump-ins
and land and block most AC's, plus if you thought an AC was coming you could
2-1 into a special or super. I'm not saying they were fair, but they did add
some interesting mind games. Some were a bit too much (ken range and damage,
for example) but the main problem IMO is that they took too little meter/ the
meter built up too quickly. In my mind the best thing would be to make AC's
solely for positioning (by doing almost no damage a la A3) but A3 goes too
far with the guard meter reduction.
[big clip]
MvC clearly takes less skill to play than A3, yet you like MvC
>more and say that MvC is a better game.
Jsut let me jump to this guys defense a little. A3 does certainly take
more skill, but the kind of skill A3 takes is different from the kind of skill
SF2 took, and some might see that kind of skill as being tedious rather than
enjoyable. A3 also has a lot of things to learn but the incentive is not
there. In SF2 learning new things made you better but was also fun. In A3
learning some things (such as good VC's, the rules of juggling, etc) are not
really that enjoyable, although they are required to max out potential. Just
like in A2 learning to AC a low short was important but just not that fun to
do really. Of course this is just my opinion, but I think most can agree that
in SF2 there was a certain excitement that is lacking today. Personally I find
it more fun to play around with link combos in HF than learn A3 crap.
Weird Guile combo: stnd forward, stnd forward, knee bazooka
Actually, I was just playing HF on my SNES the other day. There are
some really wacky links.
James M
Vong (Shinji) Sundara
> In article <78b0q5$o58$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, o_ev...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >In article <19990122152242...@ng97.aol.com>,
> > whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
>
> [clip]
> >BTW, if you thought ACs were fair in A2 (particularly Ken's kick AC) then you
> >really do have another thing coming. How hard is it to react to blocking a
> >move with the AC motion? Not hard at all. It's FREE damage. So, Capcom got
> >smart and decided to try to) BALANCE the reward for the risk involved (which
> >is very negligible). You can't say that the risk/reward ratio is balanced in
> >MvC, for the most part, anyway.
>
> AC's weren't quite as bad as you make out. You could do deep jump-ins
> and land and block most AC's, plus if you thought an AC was coming you could
> 2-1 into a special or super. I'm not saying they were fair, but they did add
> some interesting mind games. Some were a bit too much (ken range and damage,
> for example) but the main problem IMO is that they took too little meter/ the
> meter built up too quickly. In my mind the best thing would be to make AC's
> solely for positioning (by doing almost no damage a la A3) but A3 goes too
> far with the guard meter reduction.
>
> [big clip]
>
> MvC clearly takes less skill to play than A3, yet you like MvC
> >more and say that MvC is a better game.
>
> Jsut let me jump to this guys defense a little. A3 does certainly take
> more skill, but the kind of skill A3 takes is different from the kind of skill
> SF2 took, and some might see that kind of skill as being tedious rather than
> enjoyable. A3 also has a lot of things to learn but the incentive is not
> there. In SF2 learning new things made you better but was also fun. In A3
> learning some things (such as good VC's, the rules of juggling, etc) are not
> really that enjoyable, although they are required to max out potential. Just
> like in A2 learning to AC a low short was important but just not that fun to
> do really. Of course this is just my opinion, but I think most can agree that
> in SF2 there was a certain excitement that is lacking today. Personally I find
> it more fun to play around with link combos in HF than learn A3 crap.
>
> Weird Guile combo: stnd forward, stnd forward, knee bazooka
>
> Actually, I was just playing HF on my SNES the other day. There are
> some really wacky links.
Good point about the type of skill Alpha 3 takes.
It is much different than the old SFs and it is a very
loose game (obviously a lot tighter than MvC but
not compared to even A2).
The biggest complaint I have about A3 is that they
took about the multiple level rolls. Now there is only
one type of roll and it is overly easy to do. The old
rolls of A2 took skill and were a big part of the wakeup
strategies. But other than that, I do like A3, make no
mistake about it. It is loose and inconsistent (especially
with priority and what combos and what doesn't... try
jump kick, ducking fierce... sometimes the fierce has
absolutely zero range and sometimes it has its old range).
--
Vong (Shinji) Sundara
Street Fighter Battleground (SFB)
http://street-fighter.hypermart.net/main.html
pnt
set
:really slow, or maybe I'm just used to the versus series, but it's just
SLOW
that's weird. i have a harder time dp'ing a jumpin in alpha 3
than i do in MvC...a3 seems TOO fast to me...
i wish they'd slow it down over here.
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"Vong (Shinji) Sundara" <1004...@wsd1.org> wrote:
>
> The biggest complaint I have about A3 is that they
> took about the multiple level rolls. Now there is only
> one type of roll and it is overly easy to do.
Not entirely true. Press KK to roll and then control yourself with the
joystick. Hold a direction to keep rolling....let go to stop rolling.
BTW, the "skill" involved in rolling in A2 and A3 is negligible. Very
negligible. However, I'd say that for control purposes, A3's rolling is
better. Sure, in A2 you have to choose which roll you want in advance, but
doesn't it make more sense that you'd be able to control the roll while
you're in it? :) I think it does.